Shenandoah Trout Spawn

[Eric Kruel]

I was looking forward to heading to Shenandoah to fish some of the trout streams this coming weekend.  I am new to trout fishing on the fly and have been searching the internet for as much information I can find on where and what to fish. In doing that I came to a fishing report for Murry's Fly shop that suggested not fishing from Now to the end of Nov due to the trout spawning.  After looking into the brook trout spawn further I found some other sources suggesting it is typically Late Oct. through the end of Nov.  I don't want to cause any stress to the fish that may cause a problem with them spawning.  So I wanted to see if anyone had suggestions as to if it is alright to fish at this time, or if I would be pushing the envelope and better off waiting till the spawn is over. 

If that is the case any suggestions on some other VA stocked trout waters I may want to give a shot.  I have been trying to look on the DGIF site to figure out what locations are currently stocked, but it doesn't look like any place within a 2 hour drive from the beltway.  I would appreciate any suggestions.  If all else fails I might just go try and chase some smallies.

[Jeffrey Silvan]

Don't forget to check out MD. There's quite a few stocked trout streams within 2 hours of the beltway (especially if you're on the MD side of the beltway). I'm not sure of the stocking schedule. Several even have wild fish. Sections of the Gunpowder are stocked for put and take, but the first ~7 miles after Prettyboy Dam is managed for wild fish as a catch and release only fishery. That section has mostly wild Brown Trout, but there are some wild brookies scattered in there, and the uppermost sections have rainbow as well.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Eric Kruel <ekru...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking forward to heading to Shenandoah to fish some of the trout streams this coming weekend.  I am new to trout fishing on the fly and have been searching the internet for as much information I can find on where and what to fish. In doing that I came to a fishing report for Murry's Fly shop that suggested not fishing from Now to the end of Nov due to the trout spawning.  After looking into the brook trout spawn further I found some other sources suggesting it is typically Late Oct. through the end of Nov.  I don't want to cause any stress to the fish that may cause a problem with them spawning.  So I wanted to see if anyone had suggestions as to if it is alright to fish at this time, or if I would be pushing the envelope and better off waiting till the spawn is over. 

If that is the case any suggestions on some other VA stocked trout waters I may want to give a shot.  I have been trying to look on the DGIF site to figure out what locations are currently stocked, but it doesn't look like any place within a 2 hour drive from the beltway.  I would appreciate any suggestions.  If all else fails I might just go try and chase some smallies.

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[Danny Barrett]

Ive seen a lot of posts on Gunpowder.  I have not yet been able to make a trip up to it.  The only big rivers I have fished in Virginia a lot are the Jackson and Back Creek.  How does Gunpowder compare? Or are there any nice rainbow/brown streams I am missing (preferably in Virginia as I already have that licence) but am not opposed to getting a MD one in future years.  Ive spen most of my free time fishing the native brookies up in the mountains and am just looking for a more relaxing trip.  As im sure many of you have been up in the brookie streams, they are tiny and tight. Thanks!

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[Trent Jones]

I would give those brookies a break. They are getting ready to spawn and they still have very low water.

 

-Trent

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:07:15 PM UTC-4, Eric Kruel wrote:

[Danny Barrett]

What is peoples opinions of fishing some brookies over Thanksgiving weekend time span?  Or should I hit up 4MR, duckpond, or tidal basin for bass?  Anyone seen any snakeheads anywhere this late in the year, there one of the very few fish that look good on a grill?   

[Rob Snowhite]

A snakehead was caught by a spin angler last week in the duck pond. I think that makes his 37th of the year!

 

With these late night temp drops I'd expect not to see them till spring. Glad my Patagonia ultra-light down hoodie arrived today. Super slim fit to wear under waders.

---

From: Danny Barrett <dannyt...@gmail.com>
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Shenandoah Trout Spawn

What is peoples opinions of fishing some brookies over Thanksgiving weekend time span?  Or should I hit up 4MR, duckpond, or tidal basin for bass?  Anyone seen any snakeheads anywhere this late in the year, there one of the very few fish that look good on a grill?   

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:26 PM, Danny Barrett <dannyt...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ive seen a lot of posts on Gunpowder.  I have not yet been able to make a trip up to it.  The only big rivers I have fished in Virginia a lot are the Jackson and Back Creek.  How does Gunpowder compare? Or are there any nice rainbow/brown streams I am missing (preferably in Virginia as I already have that licence) but am not opposed to getting a MD one in future years.  Ive spen most of my free time fishing the native brookies up in the mountains and am just looking for a more relaxing trip.  As im sure many of you have been up in the brookie streams, they are tiny and tight. Thanks!

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 3:57 PM, Jeffrey Silvan <jeffre...@gmail.com> wrote:

Don't forget to check out MD. There's quite a few stocked trout streams within 2 hours of the beltway (especially if you're on the MD side of the beltway). I'm not sure of the stocking schedule. Several even have wild fish. Sections of the Gunpowder are stocked for put and take, but the first ~7 miles after Prettyboy Dam is managed for wild fish as a catch and release only fishery. That section has mostly wild Brown Trout, but there are some wild brookies scattered in there, and the uppermost sections have rainbow as well.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Eric Kruel <ekru...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was looking forward to heading to Shenandoah to fish some of the trout streams this coming weekend.  I am new to trout fishing on the fly and have been searching the internet for as much information I can find on where and what to fish. In doing that I came to a fishing report for Murry's Fly shop that suggested not fishing from Now to the end of Nov due to the trout spawning.  After looking into the brook trout spawn further I found some other sources suggesting it is typically Late Oct. through the end of Nov.  I don't want to cause any stress to the fish that may cause a problem with them spawning.  So I wanted to see if anyone had suggestions as to if it is alright to fish at this time, or if I would be pushing the envelope and better off waiting till the spawn is over. 

If that is the case any suggestions on some other VA stocked trout waters I may want to give a shot.  I have been trying to look on the DGIF site to figure out what locations are currently stocked, but it doesn't look like any place within a 2 hour drive from the beltway.  I would appreciate any suggestions.  If all else fails I might just go try and chase some smallies.

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[Matthew Longley]

Trent (or anyone else),

How is the trout fishing in late November and after?  I'm planning a fishing trip with my dad, but looks like timing might coincide with the spawn.  Looking into pushing it back, but curious about how trout conditions are when it gets cold.  New to trout fishing, so don't know much about this.  Do people have good trout fishing all winter?  Don't mind the cold myself.

[Dalton Terrell]

Matthew and others,

I have fished December through February in the park the past couple years. It has been said here before that the after the spawn is over, the eggs still need time to develop in the redds and that we shouldn't wade the streams until after new years. With this in mind, Trent and I have both hit the park in December and early January without waders, only rock hopping or fishing the pools available from the bank. Fishing can be OK this time of year, but don't expect fish to come up for dries. Think about throwing streamers in bigger holes or nymphs in the smaller ones. 

WIth this being said, I would recommend taking your dad to one of the tailwaters instead, they won't be quite as scenic or wild but the fishing should be much better than Shenandoah National Park; if you can postpone to April I would definitely recommend SNP. I also had my dad out in Shenandoah a few weeks ago, water was super low and I certainly wished I would've picked somewhere different.

Dalton

[Danny Barrett]

What tailwaters are around DC other then the Jackson ?

Dalton

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[Dalton Terrell]

Gunpowder, North Branch of the Potomac, and the Savage are all a bit closer than the Jackson. 

On Monday, October 15, 2012 1:32:30 PM UTC-4, Danny Barrett wrote:

What tailwaters are around DC other then the Jackson ?

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Matthew and others,

I have fished December through February in the park the past couple years. It has been said here before that the after the spawn is over, the eggs still need time to develop in the redds and that we shouldn't wade the streams until after new years. With this in mind, Trent and I have both hit the park in December and early January without waders, only rock hopping or fishing the pools available from the bank. Fishing can be OK this time of year, but don't expect fish to come up for dries. Think about throwing streamers in bigger holes or nymphs in the smaller ones. 

WIth this being said, I would recommend taking your dad to one of the tailwaters instead, they won't be quite as scenic or wild but the fishing should be much better than Shenandoah National Park; if you can postpone to April I would definitely recommend SNP. I also had my dad out in Shenandoah a few weeks ago, water was super low and I certainly wished I would've picked somewhere different.

Dalton

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[Rob Snowhite]

Big hunting creek is a gem in winter. 

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[Dalton Terrell]

Good call Rob, somehow I forgot to mention that one even though I fished there this past weekend.

Dalton

[Danny Barrett]

What sort of fishing teqnigue are you using for these winter tail waters, big streamers?

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[Dalton Terrell]

I use mostly midges in a variety of colors under indicators and dries if fish are rising (mostly small BWOs and black flies, Sulphurs if you're lucky).

Dalton

[Danny Barrett]

Im glad you said midges. I went on a midge spree for some reason and have dozens in sorts of colors. Most are 20 size. To small?

On Oct 15, 2012 4:24 PM, "Dalton Terrell" <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:

I use mostly midges in a variety of colors under indicators and dries if fish are rising (mostly small BWOs and black flies, Sulphurs if you're lucky).

Dalton

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[Dalton Terrell]

Size 18 or 20 is about perfect, any smaller and I've lost more fish than I've landed. One trick is to use less of the hook shank when tying, i.e. tie a size 24 fly on a size 20 hook. 

[Danny Barrett]

ahh alright.  thanks.i dont have them infront of me but all mine are bead headed.

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 5:31 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Size 18 or 20 is about perfect, any smaller and I've lost more fish than I've landed. One trick is to use less of the hook shank when tying, i.e. tie a size 24 fly on a size 20 hook. 

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[Mike Honcho]

Eric,

For the record: I would not trust Harry Murray on anything related to fishing conditions in our local rivers. Just FYI.

Mike

[Eric Kruel]

I ended up not fishing the brookies in Shenandoah last weekend, I made the drive to Luray and fished Hawksbill creek.  It runs through the center of town and was just stocked Friday.  It was some urban angling out in the country.  I didn't end up with much, just two tiny trout and an 8" creek chub.  I am definitely going to have to give the Gunpowder and Beaver creek a try along with some of the other locations listed above.  Mike, also curious as to why I should not trust Harry Murry on any fishing info. 

[Mike Honcho]

Eric,

I have found that fishing for stocked trout in Virginia is a bit tough. Most of the time I see bait fisherman with white buckets or big coolers who hang out until they've "caught mah limit" or more. It may be better farther out in the mountains, but that has been my experience.

Good luck and let us know how you do!

[paul daddio]

Any thoughts on Big Hunting Creek in December?

[r...@robsnowhite.com]

Fish big streamers along the edges and in the pocket water. Something with plenty of rubber legs.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2012, at 5:34 PM, paul daddio <pwda...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any thoughts on Big Hunting Creek in December?
>

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[Brendan]

Can we please stop posting crap like this... ???

fine with general areas, techniques, large bodies of water, whatever... but listing specific streams is bs. 

On Monday, October 15, 2012 2:40:00 PM UTC-4, Rob Snowhite wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

Wait, what?  

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 12:07:15 PM UTC-4, Eric Kruel wrote:

[Gmail]

Actually, hot spotting and specific locations has led the largest fish I have ever caught on the fly! 

Please keep it up!

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[TurbineBlade]

Okay, so don't post specific locations and what flies we've used that were successful?  Gosh, I pretty much tell everyone everything since I'm new and don't really have a handle on all of this yet.  

Is this a board/club rule, or just an individual preference?  

Gene

[John Bilotta]

It's an open forum.  My opinion is If you have a place  and want to keep it private, you can. If you want to share a place, tip etc that's fine too.

I try and share pretty much everything.

John

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[TurbineBlade]

Okay, I see.  I actually punched in "hotspotting" into the search engine (not knowing what it really meant) and found that one really long, detailed thread about this subject that happened before I was a member here.  It looks like there are opinions across the spectrum, and I respect that.  I just wanted to make sure that if I found something that worked well and chose to share it, that it was totally fine by forum rules.  It looks like it is -- so I'm good to go.  

On the more dry, sarcastic side that I tend to favor, it would be fun if trip reports read like this:

Step 1 - Enter the stream at the outfall and walk 14 1/2 steps toward the spillway.  

Step 2 - Overhead cast #4 black bead woolly bugger into the seam and strip in line as fly feeds toward you.

Step 3 - After 8 seconds of drift, set the hook and a bass will be on it. 

Lol.  Kinda like an instruction manual to The Legend of Zelda or something.  

Gene

[Matthew Longley]

I follow another (non-local) FF forum where no one shares ANY location information (seriously one guy uses photoshop to blur the background of pictures), but TPFR is pretty open about sharing information about commonly fished waters and techniques in the area, and I think the community is better off for it.  Now if you hike 10 miles into some gorgeous hole with more trout than water and don't want if revealed, that's one thing, but I think Big Hunting Creek falls into the public knowledge trust at this point.  If that's your secret fishing spot, well you haven't been trying hard enough.

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[Terry C]

Fishing report from this year .... or  maybe last year.......     use a fly rod, could have been a 4, 6 or 8 wt. somewhere in the Mid Atlantic,   either wading or in my kayak,  with a floating/ sinking line with  a hook with feathers on it , for something that swims.     Hope this post helps everyone.    ;)

[Brendan]

The problem is we're in an area with a very small number of decent fisheries, much less ones with reproducing populations, so promoting certain ones to a board of several hundred fishermen is irresponsible if not b/c of some fisherman's code, then purely for conservation purposes. Especially when the place mentioned has only about 1.5 miles of very skinny water that's already over-pressured. 

While I appreciate the slight in your closing sentence, having fished, hiked, explored and photographed this area for 20 years, i'm pretty sure i could out almost everyone's favorite secret spots on public lands and most private lands within 3 hours of dc. And so could several others on this board...which is why if we want an exchange of information, we should respect everyone's best interest and the conservation of wild trout.  I've researched my way to almost a dozen 'secret' streams, springs and sections that aren't in any guidebook, forum or blog, from Harrisburg to harrisonburg and out to the potomac highlands, all found through books, maps, hikes, digging through environmental studies, getting lost on poorly marked forest roads and dozens of fishless adventures. In spite of the cost of gas, still recommend that method over handouts and we should be promoting those resources such as USGS, DGIF & DNR sites, eastern brook trout venture, biology reports, google maps, blogs,, to people interested in getting into the sport. If you make some friends along the way that you trade a spot or two with in exchange for somewhere else, that's great... but a massive and public forum is not the place to promote small streams. Discuss heavily stocked put and take streams -- I highly encourage posts and promotions of places like passage creek or accotink both of which are great places to learn and catch decent sized trout for the first time. 

But, with the exception of environmental and regulatory threats of which there are many to this stream and others in the area, can we please not discuss/promote small bodies of water that rely heavily on natural reproduction???  

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32 Highland Ave.

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[TurbineBlade]

I'm pretty new here - but if our #1 concern in fly fishing is conservation, shouldn't we just take up photography instead of fishing?  I'm being sincere -- because I've heard and read a lot of folks talking about stuff like catch and release being "for the fish", etc. and I don't understand it.  When I fish (which is 100% catch and release) it's totally for me, not the fish or the environment or anything of the sort...and I'm fine with that.  I enjoy fishing for a lot of indirect reasons just like everyone else (spending time with spouse, family, peace, being outdoors, seeing wildlife, etc.) but I definitely enjoy the sport of actually catching fish and I can't convince myself that this is a conservation effort.  Are rainbows/browns even native to the streams that we shouldn't hot-spot?  Ring-necked pheasants are not, so nymphing trout streams in the NE could very well be the equivalent of using an exotic feather to catch an exotic fish.  

I respect the opinions here -- this is a great forum and I've learned a lot from it.  I just find this all to be incredibly arbitrary.  Unless the genuine reason is "I had to struggle to find fishing spots and therefore so should everyone else" which I'm not sure I agree or disagree.  I'm definitely not looking for the "minute rice" answer so I can catch a huge fish on my first trip to an area....and I spend almost all of my free time either fishing or working on my casts.  

Since I don't care a thing about trout this may not matter since I suspect trout streams are the ones that people will get upset about......but I plan to continue to at least provide help (for what it's worth coming from me) that I think will help someone else have a good time on the water like I did/do.  I don't see harm in it.  

Gene

[Matthew Longley]

Didn't mean it as a personal slight, so apologies if I came off that way.  I'm not trying to question anyone's knowledge, experience, or fishing superiority here (god knows I'm not one to judge).  My point is that I found your reaction harsh and unwarranted given the context.  Big Hunting Creek is a very well known and publicized fishery.  If you google "trout streams maryland" it's listed in at least one of the top five results.  And it's listed as being stocked at least in the recent past by two different fly clubs.

There was a thread a little while back where Miles talked about his experience starting out, and the feeling that those that came before him were pulling the ladder up behind them.  I very much look forward to being able to list out half of the accomplishments that you do.  Part of getting to the point of being able to look at a map or hike through the woods and recognize fishy water is getting some experience in better known areas.

I can tell you that I look at a loaded trout stream and have no idea where to start, where fish are holding, or what parts of the water are dead ends.  I've been tying flies on and off since I was 11, but I never really had anyone to take me fishing.  I know that I need to 'pay my dues' with fishless hours standing in the water, but it is invaluable to at least have the knowledge that others have had success in an area before.  You can call it a handout if you want, but I prefer to think of it as highlighting my own error.  If I spend 12 hours walking miles alongside a stream that I know from others is loaded with trout that love small nymphs, and I don't catch anything, then I know I need to change tactics (see my New Mexico trip report).  While I've very much enjoyed the people I have met through this club, that secondhand experience has certainly been my most practical and useful takeaway from here.

If you want to start an honest conversation about conservation, and perhaps even about setting some guidelines about spot sharing on the forum, I have no problem with that.  But you went about it the wrong way.

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[FlyTimesDC]

Hard to think of a sport more directly tied into conservation than fly fishing......

On another note, don't hate on trout.... smallies and largemouth are also non-native to the region (smiley face)

[TurbineBlade]

Hard to think of a sport more directly tied into conservation than fly fishing......

Not so.  

I'd have to vote for this:

[Carl Zmola]

On 11/26/2012 03:49 PM, TurbineBlade wrote:
> I'm always up for hearing an honest conversation about "conserving"
> introduced, Euro-trash species that people just happen to enjoy
> targeting for various reasons ;).
>
> Honeybees are right in there with 'em. Invaders. Bad bugs.
Pheasants Forever :-)

[FlyTimesDC]

As a registered republican in DC, I know my vote won't count any way. But here are my two-cents....Your license fee goes towards the appropriate state fisheries and wildlife department. Fishing licenses often pay for restocking efforts, stream upkeep, and park maintenance. If you have a membership to Trout Unlimited, you're paying for conservation and stocking efforts through that. The parks and other urban areas you (yes, including Gravelly Point, Tidal Basin, Constitution Gardens, Four Mile Run, Fletcher's Cove, Turkey Run, River Bend, Rock Creek Park, etc) are all either National Parks or public space if I'm not mistaken.  People are employed to patrol, maintain, and make sure those places (albeit urban in some instances) are safe, presentable, usable, and ultimately - fishable. To deny the efforts of those involved in keeping our fisheries sustainable is somewhat upsetting to say the least. I know the Potomac is an urban fishery, but I respect the hell out of the authorities and higher ups who keep it fishable for us.  It's their efforts combined with aware anglers (like the vast majority of this group, who practice catch and release, respect the fish, and don't trash the water) that keep our waterways productive and sustainable. I guess what I'm trying to say (and in no way have I intended any offense in any this) is that the individual efforts by anglers like yourself to not trash the water, practice catch and release, and enjoy our local waterways for what they are - are indeed acts of conservation. Without responsible anglers, there are no dumb fish.