help make App Inventor even better

[Gary]

App Inventor is the best thing since sliced bread.

  or

one of the more fun ways to build and create and learn.

Google announced they were open sourcing App Inventor the end of 2011

  https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/app-inventor-announcements/KOElwBV3sVs

Later Hal announced that MIT is setting up a center for mobile learning and will be actively engaged in studying and extending App Inventor

  http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2011/08/new-mit-center-for-mobile-learning-with.html

Sooo, open source App Inventor will be available and we can be patient as we see what happens next

  and we can help make App Inventor even better.

How?

We can update the documentation. The official documentation has not kept up with the updated and we can easily update the documentation. If we do well, it makes it easy for the 'official' documentation to be updated.

We can work on making the documentation on the many tutorials better and better. Tony just released another excellent tutorial and we can resolve to make it and the many tutorials that are all over the net even better.

We can help others on the forum.

We can...

do anything we can imagine :-)

Want to come play???

Gary

[Anthony Barnes]

oooohhh, pick me, pick me!!!

I always want to play and help make the community a better place. If we work on getting all of our private docs whipped into shape it will help the AI community to grow.

I look forward to creating more tutorials and helping any way I can.

--

tAIR - Main Site   |    tAIR - Forum   |   tAIR - Code Site   |    tAIR - Webchat
tAIR Companion App - Download From Market
Tony Barnes   |   barne...@gmail.com

[Gary]

Tony, you are so easy...

Have I mentioned how much I like your tutorials?

Can you help me with mine?

Anyone else interested ;-)

Gary if it was hard to write is should be hard to understand... well perhaps not :-)

[Gary]

documentation

The 'official' documentation is not up to date with what is actually there. Look for the documentation on the WebViewer component. It is a bit skimpy.

Not a huge problem but we can make it better.

The 'official' documentation tells us

  "This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported License ."

on all the pages I looked at. So, one of the things we can do is get a copy and update it.

And I think if we do a good job, our updates can be added back into the 'official' version (why do I keep putting ' around official?)

easy to do

and

Look at the documentation for the Web component SaveResponse property

SaveResponse

Whether the response should be saved in a file.

   http://appinventor.googlelabs.com/learn/reference/components/other.html#Web

and then look at this snippit from the java Bridge

  /**

   * Returns whether the response should be saved in a file.

   */

  @SimpleProperty(category = PropertyCategory.BEHAVIOR,

      description = "Whether the response should be saved in a file.")

  public boolean SaveResponse() {

    return saveResponse;

  }

Why it's like Google generates the documentation from the Java Doc that is in the source

  http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/index-jsp-135444.html

:-) :-) :-)

I bet we can help. 

I already tested putting a page from the 'official' documentation on a web page and if more than Tony and me step up to do 

  stuff

we can clone the 'official' pages on tAIR's web site and then we can start updating.

and do it such that it is very useful for whoever has charge of the "official" source.

Now we know why I kept saying "official". There needs to be an official copy or we end up with versions and that can get confusing. The tAIR version will be a proposed updated version. It will be better than the official version, but only because the developers are busy developing. (If it is hard to write...)

anyone interested???

Gary

[Gary]

Tony, I like your tutorials.

Let's look at your resolve tutorial http://www.tair.info/faq/how-to-s/resolve

Easy to understand.

Clear.

If I want to know how to Resolve an activity and install the activity if it is not there, I know where I am going.

and

We can build an index of all the tutorials that use ResolveActivity. Then you can see the various ways to do it.

Hmmm - we can add tags to the tutorial, like "Activity Starter", "ResolveActivity" and we have the start of an easy to build and use index.

It is easy to add some tags.

We will learn what tags are useful as we go.

and this is just one of the many ways we can make the tutorials more useful.

Anyone interested in making the documentation on tutorials better?

Gary

[Gary]

I have a gob of stuff

that is hard to find

it was hard to write

so I made it hard to understand...

actually I put it up there for those that could dig out the diamonds.

Various people named Tony have been explicit that my stuff needs to be easier...

Anyone interested in updating some real nifty info that is hard to find and understand?

Gary

[Gary]

tAIR points to resources for App Inventor and Android.

Those pointers are only as current as the last time someone worked with them.

If we had folks make sure we have everything

and folks reviewing what is there, saying what is good and what is not (in your opinion)

and we keep things current!!!

anyone?

Gary

[Tony Gravagno]

With regard to this specific posting (of many), it is this very point that prompted me to contact you guys about joining tAIR.  The Google docs are virtually unmaintained, and they are inadequate for many reasons.  I had hoped to port those docs to tAIR where we could collectively enhance them, and as you say, offer the updates back to Google (or MIT now).  Giving the updates back to them would allow them to get up to where we are, and then to begin their own enhancement as the software is updated.  Unfortunately this once again puts us out of sync and we/I will need to constantly poke their docs for changes to extend.  It's a really bad system, but the only solution to the problem that I think is practical.

 

The "real" solution (there go those quotes) would be for Google or MIT to submit notes to tAIR about whatever changes they make, and then we/I could update what is now the official document repository.  My attitude here is: lead, follow, or get out of the way.  If they aren't going to keep the docs current and complete, then give us the opportunity to do so.  But I wish these "cathdral" repositories of information wouldn't pretend to be the source for all that's official, while at the same time simply not performing that job.  I don't care who maintains docs, but if the code maintainers can't or won't do it, then they should pass the responsibility to others.

 

Now that the code is FOSS I don't see any reason why the FOSS should still be hosted in a cathedral environment by code maintainers, who are notoriously bad documentation people.  I'd propose that the docs be Free and Open Source Docs, so that the community has an opportunity to maintain its own resources.  We ARE the community.  tAIR is perfectly suited for this.  There should be nothing wrong with delegation of doc maintenance to be transferred to tAIR.

 

The alternative would be to petition MIT to ensure all docs are hosted in a wiki which is accessible for limited community maintenance.  Then they can host the software And docs, but we don't need to rely entirely on them to manage the docs.  I'd think they would welcome this as an opportunity to publish a better offering with less work on their part.

 

Nuff outta me.

---

From:  Gary

[Gary]

another great comment from Tony. :-)

and

On Friday, August 26, 2011 7:11:44 PM UTC-5, Tony Gravagno wrote:

With regard to this specific posting (of many), it is this very point that prompted me to contact you guys about joining tAIR.  The Google docs are virtually unmaintained, and they are inadequate for many reasons.  I had hoped to port those docs to tAIR where we could collectively enhance them, and as you say, offer the updates back to Google (or MIT now).  Giving the updates back to them would allow them to get up to where we are, and then to begin their own enhancement as the software is updated.  Unfortunately this once again puts us out of sync and we/I will need to constantly poke their docs for changes to extend.  It's a really bad system, but the only solution to the problem that I think is practical.

it's a solution that works, works now and we can get started on

  now!!!

 

 

The "real" solution (there go those quotes) would be for Google or MIT to submit notes to tAIR about whatever changes they make, and then we/I could update what is now the official document repository.  My attitude here is: lead, follow, or get out of the way.  If they aren't going to keep the docs current and complete, then give us the opportunity to do so.  But I wish these "cathdral" repositories of information wouldn't pretend to be the source for all that's official, while at the same time simply not performing that job.  I don't care who maintains docs, but if the code maintainers can't or won't do it, then they should pass the responsibility to others.

lead, follow or get out of the way - good open source attitude

"then give us the opportunity to do so" and "pass the responsibility to others"

  huh? lead, follow or get out of the way, I proposed we move forward - they are out of the way - the docs are CC.

 

 

Now that the code is FOSS I don't see any reason why the FOSS should still be hosted in a cathedral environment by code maintainers, who are notoriously bad documentation people.  I'd propose that the docs be Free and Open Source Docs, so that the community has an opportunity to maintain its own resources.  We ARE the community.  tAIR is perfectly suited for this.  There should be nothing wrong with delegation of doc maintenance to be transferred to tAIR.

see my comment above

 

 

The alternative would be to petition MIT to ensure all docs are hosted in a wiki which is accessible for limited community maintenance.  Then they can host the software And docs, but we don't need to rely entirely on them to manage the docs.  I'd think they would welcome this as an opportunity to publish a better offering with less work on their part.

The real solution is more communication. We did not know what Google was doing next.

There needs to be a way that folks that want something the "official" owner will not do.

  Oracle owns Java. It will be a sad day if the community had to take just what Oracle intends to do.

I do not see it a workable solution to have the "official" owner submit notes to tAIR or anyone. Development work should include notes and conversation, the notes should be made public and such that someone can help with documentation by looking at the notes, the source, the test cases and any conversation that related to the work.

 

Nuff outta me.

So are you saying yes to documenting?

We can start now (well, next week for me ;-))

Gary the agreeable

[Gary]

and Roger is collecting info about the ai apps in the market

https://groups.google.com/d/topic/appinventor/Y-9DqutlATw/discussion

several posts in

I hope we have nice structured data so we can parse it and use it in various ways

I suggest a fusion table that is world writable

or a form that inputs to a spreadsheet

and it all needs to be in an app

woo hoo

who is interested in helping?

Gary

[Lennart J]

Hi all
Wouldn't it be practical to make the documentatin as WikiAI and thereby open the possibility for contribution from many?

Just a humble question from
Lennart J

[Gary]

Could be.

1. I have used the wiki like what's in the tAIR code site http://code.google.com/p/the-ai-repository/
   
2. I worked with someone using a Google Doc.
   
3. The "official" docs are web pages. I took one, and just pasted onto a site like http://www.tair.info/
   

I personally find the wiki the least useful. You have to use wiki markup and some of our soon to show up volunteers do not know how to use that.

I personally did not like using a doc. The page was going to end up on a web page and I find it as easy if not more to just edit on the web page. The Google Docs do have collaboration, but I personally find that useful if you are working with someone on a document at the same time as another and want to 'talk' about what you both are doing.

We can set up a site to hold a clone of the docs and start editing. We will have to give folks permission to edit, but that is just something to be done and also gives us a way to see who is doing what where.

But that is just my opinion. 

We are kicking it up a notch, I am happy as long as the notch get's kicked up.

Gary

 

[Roger Belk]

Now I like the Ideal of working together on getting the Docs. where newbies can understand them. When I started back in Dec.2010 I didnt really understand half of what google had out there.
Maybe add a small example with each.
When do we ever get this started?
Thanks,

Big Daddy App
www.BigDaddyApp.com

Follow Big Daddy on Twitter
BIG DADDY APP's APPS
JOIN BDA on FACEBOOK

[Gary]

!!!

I'll set something up so we can see if it works for us.

On Monday, August 29, 2011 5:49:54 AM UTC-5, BIG DADDY APP wrote:

Now I like the Ideal of working together on getting the Docs. where newbies can understand them. When I started back in Dec.2010 I didnt really understand half of what google had out there.
Maybe add a small example with each.

!!!

 

When do we ever get this started?

when we have people stepping forward and doing things. I am just a loud voice saying "let's do something" 

Gary

[Anthony Barnes]

If we do this on one of the tAIR sites, the tAIR members should already have rights to edit. I'm just sayin!

[Gary]

I'm setting up a site so we can play around and see what works. 

I'm sorta thinking we want the updated docs on tAIR

and a site to work on updates

Thoughts?

Gary who is thinking of what to call the site where we can explore working on the docs and should not be allowed to name anything

[Anthony Barnes]

We can call it the unofficial official docs!  Let me know what you need.

[Gary]

Well... Not as easy as I thought it would be

but

Here is a test site with a few pages https://sites.google.com/a/jsoft.com/aibetadocs/

learn and troubleshooting below learn are there

all I did was copy paste

Not perfect. sigh The info is there but the page is not a copy.

I am out of time for the next few hours at least. 

If you are interested in helping with this, send me an email and I will give you edit.

You can send me an email by going to this message in the forum view and clicking Reply to Author in the dropdown next to Post Reply in the upper right.

Gary

[Tony Gravagno]

What's really funny is that you're describing a concept which is sort of being created in real-time out of need.  I described this exact scenario to colleagues over a decade ago, of collaborative documention where the final version is posted for consumers, and there were a ton of other features.  No one got it then and it's still not a part of the global consciousness now, and yet here we are sort of inventing it on the fly, as people have for years because it's such a common need.  Sigh, there's the next killer app if anyone wants it - it predated the wiki but is essentially based on wiki ... and then some.  Sure, build it with AI, that'll work.   Hmmm, maybe I can propose it to Google Labs.... NAH.... too late!

 

Ahem, aside from that Gary-esque mindstorm...  I need to catch a plane in the morning and I'll be out of touch for a week.  I'll pick up on this when I get back.

 

On my mind right now are:

1) There are a number of things that I'd like to do.

2) I can't afford yet another "in my free time" project with no hope of compensation, though I think this is a pretty cool platform that deserves support from people who can.

3) It would be really nice to partner in the migration process with Google and MIT, as the "civilian" party of interest, so that we can collaborate with them toward our common goals.  Right now it's us against them, and they could be swamped and wondering why no one in the community is offering assistance.  We won't know these things unless we ask.  I'll be happy to initiate dialog on behalf of tAIR and to report back here, since I started this journey to the center of the documentation in the first place.  Any votes of dissent?

4) This forum needs to get the post# removed, as the subject keeps changing, we get RE RE RE and it's just a real mess in here.  :)

 

See you guys in IRC next wednesday.

 

T

---

From: theaire...@googlegroups.com [mailto:theaire...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary gary.frederick-at-jsoft.com |App Inventor|
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 4:28 AM
To: *******************; theaire...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: [TheAIRepository:430] Re: help make App Inventor even better

[Gary]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2011 12:52:07 AM UTC-5, Tony Gravagno wrote:

What's really funny is that you're describing a concept which is sort of being created in real-time out of need.  I described this exact scenario to colleagues over a decade ago, of collaborative documention where the final version is posted for consumers, and there were a ton of other features.  No one got it then and it's still not a part of the global consciousness now, and yet here we are sort of inventing it on the fly, as people have for years because it's such a common need.  Sigh, there's the next killer app if anyone wants it - it predated the wiki but is essentially based on wiki ... and then some.  Sure, build it with AI, that'll work.   Hmmm, maybe I can propose it to Google Labs.... NAH.... too late!

 

Ahem, aside from that Gary-esque mindstorm...  I need to catch a plane in the morning and I'll be out of touch for a week.  I'll pick up on this when I get back.

Mindstorms: Children, Computers, and Powerful Ideas  I read the book, a lot :-)

Have a good week, I will miss your input

 

 

On my mind right now are:

1) There are a number of things that I'd like to do.

so many interesting things, 24 hours in the day

 

2) I can't afford yet another "in my free time" project with no hope of compensation, though I think this is a pretty cool platform that deserves support from people who can.

:-)

I hope the community grows. Brenda and Massimiliano and others spent some of their time on the +1 app. (Thanks) 

I think working on documentation is a good way to give back. Not the only but a very good way.

 

3) It would be really nice to partner in the migration process with Google and MIT, as the "civilian" party of interest, so that we can collaborate with them toward our common goals.  Right now it's us against them, and they could be swamped and wondering why no one in the community is offering assistance.  We won't know these things unless we ask.  I'll be happy to initiate dialog on behalf of tAIR and to report back here, since I started this journey to the center of the documentation in the first place.  Any votes of dissent?

I know several of us have offered to help and to partner 'them' ;-)

I think they are heads down getting the server part up. Mark answered your question about what they would like to see out of us by saying 

  patience

and also said good things about tAIR and updating the documents and adding back to the "official" site (his quotes)

I think the App Inventor team is hunkered down and just looking at getting the server up. I personally think that is a bad project management choice, they said there are 100k users out there and ignoring everything but getting the server up is not what I would do. But I could be wrong...

What would you say if you initiated dialog on behalf of tAIR?

 

4) This forum needs to get the post# removed, as the subject keeps changing, we get RE RE RE and it's just a real mess in here.  :)

Some times I am not a nice guy (very rarely, but it does happen ;-)) and I put everything into one post to see what happened.

I am sorry (well perhaps I am :-)) and will open up some more topics. I will be sad if the topics die...

 

 

See you guys in IRC next wednesday.

It should be interesting. See you Wednesday.

Gary