UI Refresh Discussion

[Pent]

I uploaded some screenshots from my Nexus S and 7.

http://tasker.dinglisch.net/ui

Though the controls are fully functional, this isn't a 'final
version'. The default/dark/light themes are selectable in Prefs.

I personally prefer the light theme.

I will read any and all suggestions and take them under consideration,
but please don't be dissappointed if I don't respond or answer
questions.

Pent

[RudeboyX]

Looking good.

     That dark theme has put a smile on my face. I see you've changed the tasker icon to that of the google design teams recomendation. Is that final? I do like it more than the original icon but think something even better could be imagened.

RBX

[Pent]

> Is that final?

No, it's just the best I have right now.

Pent

[GermainZ]

The dark UI looks great!

[Vladimir Oz]

How looks project selector? Does it appears by tap on Tasker icon with left arrow?

BTW, What does locker icon means at last? There is Lock item in context menu for now. But I can't fugure out what's this?:) 

Please insert theme chooser into SetTaskerPref Action. That would be cool to change it for Night or Day mode or else...

[Pent]

> How looks project selector?

Bottom left in some of the shots, when not in beginner mode.

> Does it appears by tap on Tasker icon with left
> arrow?

No, that means 'next activity up' in holo-speak.

> BTW, What does locker icon means at last? There is Lock item in context
> menu for now. But I can't fugure out what's this?:)

Locks the profile, if you setup a code in the UI prefs.

> Please insert theme chooser into SetTaskerPref Action. That would be cool
> to change it for Night or Day mode or else...

Heh, let's call that an advanced feature request.

Pent

[Jeff]

The home icon still looks really clunky in comparison to the other 4.0+ elements.

[Nuno Mendes]

Though this theme is not for GB right?

[GermainZ]

Nope.

[Nuno Mendes]

Since i looked in the adroidpolice video they customized tasker, though making a new UI wouldnt be so hard for Pent...but eh:( i feel really down right now:)

[GermainZ]

It's not as hard as it was now that he doesn't need to maintain compatibility with GB. :)

Bottom line is, you're not gonna stay with the same device for more than a few months, maybe a year or two.
Bugs won't be a problem since Pent will fix them for GB users, and frankly, with Tasker being so feature packed right now and having the ultimate tool using which you can do most non supported stuff anyway (*cough* Run Shell *cough*), you probably won't be desperately needing any of the features that will be introduced in the next few releases (till you get a new device that supports ICS+).

[Nuno Mendes]

I really just needed the "scenes improvement" stuff. Nothing else. Thats the ONLY reason i'm sad about ;)

[Vladimir Oz]

Hi, Pent.

Would You let us try new UI on early stages with exact separate app (call it TaskerUITest)? Maybe some usability suggestions will appear after using, tapping,swyping ... not after looking at pictures.

[Pent]

> Would You let us try new UI on early stages with exact separate app (call
> it TaskerUITest)? Maybe some usability suggestions will appear after using,
> tapping,swyping ... not after looking at pictures.

Not yet, I still have a lot to do with the rest of the app.

Pent

[Nixx]

somehow I get a reported web forgery warning in firefox?

"This web page at tasker.dinglisch.net has been reported as a web forgery and has been blocked based on your security preferences."

I do like the new GUI !

[Richard Davis]

I don't want to sound like an "anti change guy" But I actually liked the blue.  I find it easier on the eyes ( Perhaps it is just the older eyes) Then the white. And the black is just a little too dark for me. Blue with the white borders seemed to be the perfect mix.. The layout and graphics look really nice.

I noticed the Google boys mentioned the long press menu. I believe they said it should be reserved for other things which they didn't mention.  Where else would you put these selections and how would you get to them?   

Rich..

[Pent]

> I don't want to sound like an "anti change guy" But I actually liked the
> blue

Me too :-)

I'd like to add a 'classic' theme tending towards blue if time
permits.

Pent

[Richard Davis]

> I'd like to add a 'classic' theme tending towards blue if time
> permits.

Nice.. I will put my order in now for 1 classic theme tasker... ( wanted to get in line early, I think it will be a hot item..... )    :)

[Paul [sabret00the]]

My initial thoughts are that you're trying to stick too closely to what you have instead of breaking free and truly evolving the design. I think Roman Nurik was right in that you don't need to have the contexts and the actions side by side. Have the context and have the actions below.

If having the main tabs in the action bar on the N7 looks cluttered, imagine my One X (4.7" screen)  or smaller. You should definitely move those tabs down a level.

On Thursday, 6 December 2012 14:49:32 UTC, Pent wrote:

[Paul [sabret00the]]

I offered my modernisation to Pent back in October: http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/303/0/8/tasker_logo_rework_by_sabret00the-d5jh8ij.png

It's certainly there and available in whichever sizes and formats he wants. That said, he's had the original logo for a long time, so you can understand him wanting to stick with it.

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Patience. He'll get around to that stuff eventually. He needs to work on the core design elements first.

[Dave Fisher]

I'm getting the same in Chrome now, it WASN'T happening yesterday however:

Reported Phishing Website Ahead!

Google Chrome has blocked access to tasker.dinglisch.net. This website has been reported as a phishing website.

Phishing websites are designed to trick you into disclosing your login, password or other sensitive information by disguising themselves as other websites you may trust.

[Pent]

> My initial thoughts are that you're trying to stick too closely to what you
> have instead of breaking free and truly evolving the design.

That's correct, I'm trying to switch to holo format and remove
reliance on
pre-holo APIs as quickly as possible.

I'm considering the 'no editing profiles via main screen' model. It
just
takes so long when you just want to have a quick look...

> I think Roman
> Nurik was right in that you don't need to have the contexts and the actions
> side by side. Have the context and have the actions below.

On my NS, there's space for around two profiles if I do that, with
having the
action bar too, because the tabs get split and make the AB bigger.

> If having the main tabs in the action bar on the N7 looks cluttered,
> imagine my One X (4.7" screen)  or smaller. You should definitely move
> those tabs down a level.

It looks better on a smaller screen, the tabs get moved down by
Android.

If I could, I would force them down on the bigger screen too.

Pent

[Pent]

> I offered my modernisation to Pent back in October:http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/303/0/8/tasker_logo_rework_by_...

I don't remember that at all...

I quite like them but they're too plain. Also, I think a square logo's
going to look better in the action bar.

Nixx is a graphic designer and has offered to have a go too.

Pent

[Pent]

> I'm getting the same in Chrome now, it WASN'T happening yesterday however:

On this forum page ??

Pent

[Dave Fisher]

No when accessing http://tasker.dinglisch.net/ui

[Kevin Kintner]

I am getting the same warning, I went to advanced options and reported it as incorrect warning to Google. 

Kevin 

[Pent]

> It is my opinion that dark/light themes should both be available in the
> app, and selectable from the preferences screen.

It says that already in my first post.

Pent

[Pent]

> No when accessinghttp://tasker.dinglisch.net/ui

Well, it's only temporary.

Maybe because it wasn't linked previously from anywhere.

Pent

[Dave Fisher]

Sure, I was just confirming what someone else reported from Firefox :)

[Pent]

I don't like that add icon in the action bar. It feels more natural if
add is at the bottom, because that's where things get added to the
list.

What do you think of a faded add button centre bottom of lists, either
overlayed, or coming into view when the list is scrolled to the
bottom ?

Pent

[Richard Davis]

> I don't like that add icon in the action bar. It feels more natural if
> add is at the bottom, because that's where things get added to the
> list.

I would vote for leaving it in the action bar.
Most of the time when I'm going to make a new profile I will be opening the profile page probably from somewhere else and will be at the top of the list.  To have to scroll to the bottom just to add a profile would be a extra unnecessary step.

>
> What do you think of a faded add button centre bottom of lists,

Seems like that could possibly get in the way of something else.
Or possibly select a project by mistake.

The tasker on off button in the bottom right looks like it might get confused with a profile on off button.
Do you think it would be ridiculous to include it into the tasker logo and save some space.  Greyed out for off / with perhaps  maybe a little more brilliant color or even a very thin green outline for on...

Rich...

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Go for it. Gmail has the compose button at the bottom.

[Paul [sabret00the]]

This is probably too late, but I found another drawer: https://bitbucket.org/verdigo/drawer

I emailed the author and he believes it'd be possible to make the left side interactable.

[Amer]

Not only home icon, I think all built up icons should be updated into a 'more holo' ones.

Looking at home and green triangle run icon, I'm guessing it's still using the existing one.

I love both, dark n light theme. It will be a plus if we can set some specific time to use what theme, for example dark when using at night and light on the opposite.

Btw, it looks very promising, and I'm sure it will be the long awaited update not only by us, the user that involves in this forum, but also by all the site out there that has been covering Tasker UI update news ;)

--
√ HTC Evo 3D
√ Android ICS 4.0.3
√ Sense 3.6 Cool ICS ROM v14a
√ 4EXT Recovery Touch v1.0.0.5 RC8

On Dec 7, 2012 2:12 AM, "Jeff" <jeffrey....@gmail.com> wrote:

The home icon still looks really clunky in comparison to the other 4.0+ elements.

On Thursday, December 6, 2012 1:37:21 PM UTC-5, Pent wrote:

> How looks project selector?

Bottom left in some of the shots, when not in beginner mode.

> Does it appears by tap on Tasker icon with left
> arrow?

No, that means 'next activity up' in holo-speak.

> BTW, What does locker icon means at last? There is Lock item in context
> menu for now. But I can't fugure out what's this?:)

Locks the profile, if you setup a code in the UI prefs.

> Please insert theme chooser into SetTaskerPref Action. That would be cool
> to change it for Night or Day mode or else...

Heh, let's call that an advanced feature request.

Pent

[Pent]

> Not only home icon, I think all built up icons should be updated into a
> 'more holo' ones.

That would be nice, but it's another huge time sink.

I quite like the 'glossy silver' ipack icons, silver goes well with
most other colours I think.

Pent

[Pent]

> This is probably too late, but I found another drawer:https://bitbucket.org/verdigo/drawer
>
> I emailed the author and he believes it'd be possible to make the left side
> interactable.

Thanks Paul, will take a look, although I'm reasonably happy with the
projects at the bottom
left now, since I need a line for the on/off button anyway.

Pent

[Amer]

Or maybe just the ones you use in the UI, you know, home, plus, minus etc.

No pushy though ;)

--
√ HTC Evo 3D
√ Android ICS 4.0.3
√ Sense 3.6 Cool ICS ROM v14a
√ 4EXT Recovery Touch v1.0.0.5 RC8

[Dave Fisher]

http://thenounproject.com/ might be a help for "flat" style icons - don't forget to check licenses though (think most are CC).

[hollywoodfrodo]

I have no quarrels being anti-change! :-)  I mean, I would say I'm a Tasker power-user of sorts and there's still so much I don't know and have left to learn.  I don't want to have to learn a new UI.  But hopefully, that UI will only affect looks and not much more.

Honestly, my two cents is this...  You might be able to make more $$$ if you had a slightly cheaper "dumbed down" version of Tasker for people who are less tech savvy and then a TaskerPro or TaskerElite or whatever version that is the same as the current Tasker.  Might be a way to compete with the many other Tasker clones on the market now which are no where near as amazing and brilliant as Tasker, but which do appeal to many non-tech geek types.  Anyway, just a thought.

Otherwise, I'm partial to the current colors, but aside from that I like the new light/dark just fine.  Maybe tweak the tasker icon a little, give it a holo look?  But in general, I'd say it's looking good so far...if we have to change.

Eric 

[GermainZ]

It doesn't matter when people ask questions already covered in the FAQ or want profiles that are fully working & explained in the wiki.

Pent, wouldn't it be possible to include the Holo Light/Holo Dark icon packs as default packs instead?

[Dave Fisher]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.android.ipack.holdlightmd&hl=en

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.dinglisch.android.ipack.holddarkmd&hl=en

[Pent]

> Pent, wouldn't it be possible to include the Holo Light/Holo Dark icon
> packs as default packs instead?

It would add 500k to the APK size (around 30%), so I'm reluctant.

On the other hand, taking just the ones useful for the Tasker UI and
the more
useful looking other ones might be a good idea... muse muse...

Pent

[zeltak brisbane]

oh pretty please with sugar on top add the holo icons packs :)

been waiting for this for agaes ;-)

best

z

[Pent]

> oh pretty please with sugar on top add the holo icons packs :)

Why ? You can already use them via ipacks.

Pent

[RudeboyX]

Would be nice to use holo icons for taskers main notification icon though. Tasker is the only notification icon on my phone/tablet that looks out of place.

[Dave Fisher]

If you are on Jelly Bean, hide the Tasker icon via the OS, create a new profile that triggers when Tasker runs, attach a new task that creates a Notification, select Holo icon of your choice, set title to Tasker, put whatever you like in the Notification text and voila!

[GermainZ]

You'd miss the active profiles part of the notification, tho.

[Richard Davis]

> You'd miss the active profiles part of the notification, tho.
>

It would start to get a little busy just to change an icon appearance but you certainly could include those as well.....

[zeltak brisbane]

pent, i meant for the 'set tasker icon' if you remember our conversation from a while back. it would make the icons much more inline with the 'holo' theme. now the old icons look like win95 icons and so out of place

thx

Z

[Pent]

In the end I went for the two holo icon sets for UI action bar and
menu items. I don't know if I'll leave the unused icons in the Tasker
APK or not, will have to weigh benefits against space taken.

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Sounds good to me.

[Pent]

> Sounds good to me.

Looks 'neat' but I find the lack of colour in holo boring personally.

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

It's more about neutrality. Which the holo images have. The colour
choices throughout the rest of the app are what's supposed to provide
the personality. Not to mention that you're staring at them a longer
than most of us, so it's easier for them to lose their appeal.

--
Until Next Time, Make Me A Marvel!

[hollywoodfrodo]

I agree with you, Pent. Holo is good sometimes but overdone it can be super bland. Besides, even Holo isn't future proof. It happens to be the "in" thing right now, but that'll merge into something else in the next couple of years.

[TomL]

Why not give Tasker the ability to read skin/theme files, and let users customize it to their hearts content?

Personally, I don't really care about the UI as long as it lets me get what I need done.

Tom

[Pent]

> This is probably too late, but I found another drawer:https://bitbucket.org/verdigo/drawer

Spent an hour installing this (and it's not-mentioned animation
library it needs).

Sadly couldn't get the drawer to show without an odd bug, and there's
no docs.

I think it's because it expects to have the ActionBarSherlock version
of the animation library around but I installed the separate version
(I don't want ActionBarSherlock just for this).

Pent

[Nuno Mendes]

Pent, how come Locale has a ICS style and maps(as u said librabries werent avaible) and running on GB? Maybe u can ask them what they did? Therefor making the GB Tasker community again enjoying Tasker at its fullest and not feeling let down?:D

[Pent]

> Pent, how come Locale has a ICS style and maps(as u said librabries werent
> avaible) and running on GB? Maybe u can ask them what they did?

I judged the difficulties and time involved in working around the
compatibility library limitations to be too high. The Locale devs
apparently made a different decision.

At this point, I'm glad I decided to break the cord because I've since
encountered many further issues with maintaining pre-ICS
compatibility.

>Therefor
> making the GB Tasker community again enjoying Tasker at its fullest and not
> feeling let down?:D

73% of Tasker users are now on 4.0+. In the next couple of weeks I
expect it to get to 76% due to new devices. The vast majority of the
pre 4.0 people have no reason to feel 'let down' since they have
benefited from hundreds or thousands of improvements to the product
they originally bought.

Pent

[Nuno Mendes]

Well i'm on ICS now too ;p Just bough a SGSII. Got a lot of unexpected money from christmas. Decided to treat myself a bit :P
Just a bit sad battery on first day lasted me 18h~ :)

[HB]

2.3 has been out of date.

在 2012年12月28日星期五UTC+8下午4时41分17秒，Pent写道：

[doc]

These android police guys are like a bunch of little kids complaining they don't want their chocolate ice cream to be so dark. Wah wah wah.
Tasker is a very powerful and well designed program. Some of its quirckiness lends itself to learning it better. It looks fine. Leave it alone.

[Pent]

> Secondly, that design is suggested by the Android team (at Google) and not
> the Android Police guys. And to be very honest, no disrespect to the
> developer but Tasker DOES look out of shape and ill-designed now.

That's why I'm working on a UI refresh, which is what this thread is
about.

Pent

[HB]

Happy New year,Pent,and when will the next version with new UI be released.I just feel so desirous and look forward to it

在 2013年1月2日星期三UTC+8下午4时15分54秒，Pent写道：

[Pent]

> Happy New year,Pent,and when will the next version with new UI be
> released.I just feel so desirous and look forward to it

Maybe a beta in a week to get feedback. But there's not all *that*
much different, it just feels more modern (and there's a lot of
modernisation under the hood for newer Android APIs etc).

Pent

[doc]

Pent, I hope you might be able to offer jusr an "under the hood" update while leaving the UI the same. It's quite grown on me and I really like the layout. Moving stuff around will only cause confusion, not solve it.

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Why are you being so difficult? Just like you learned to love the
existing UI, you'll learn to love the new one.

On 2 January 2013 18:05, doc <docsl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Pent, I hope you might be able to offer jusr an "under the hood" update while leaving the UI the same. It's quite grown on me and I really like the layout. Moving stuff around will only cause confusion, not solve it.

[Ricardo Antonio Cabral Mejía]

Fact remains that the UI of this magnificent software needs to catch up to the new Android UI standards, and it's great to hear that Pent is already working on it.

Remember that change can help stuff get better over time; just look at Android itself.

If done properly, the new UI will make this software even easier to use (specially for beginners) and stand out even more.

[Nuno Mendes]

Pent, can you provide some screenshots while we wait?:) So we see +/- how its becoming :)

[Pent]

> Pent, can you provide some screenshots while we wait?:) So we see +/- how
> its becoming :)

I posted some at the start of the thread. It hasn't changed much
except + is at the bottom centre now. I still don't know what to do
with the project tabs. Lucky for the App Clinic folks they could just
ignore the projects question :-)

Pent

[Nuno Mendes]

Aw ok:)

How about make the projects like Tasks does with tasks? or different emails menu(also in Tasks). Seems nice :)

[Pent]

> with the project tabs.

Finally decided they had to go far bottom with the current drag
solution.

a) If there's a side menu you have to drag down and then across, which
feels weird.
b) with drawer on same side as drag margin would get interference

They are more easily openable and closable than the current project
tabs however, because the bottom bar is above them which can also be
dragged on (anywhere) to reveal the projects.

This way they also can be visible all the time if required, which was
not possible with any of the side-slide menu drawer libraries I looked
at.

http://tasker.dinglisch.net/ptabs.png

(when it's synced)

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

I personally don't think they're needed to be ever-present just easily accessible. The side/drawer approach is becoming so popular because it's natural evolution of a system where top level data is segregated as per our projects. I personally don't mind dragging down and across but that's easy for me to say as a mere onlooker rather than being you that has to actually implement it. So good work and congratulations on reaching a decision about it.

I must say I dislike the bottom of the screen though. The huge global on/off should definitely be in the action bar, even if the graphic is swapped for something less wide. The plus/new is something that again should be in the action bar at the top and you should definitely lose the gradient from the bottom too. But that's just my opinion.

[Paul [sabret00the]]

In fact I'd add that the global on/off could be text ("Enable
Tasker"/"Disable Tasker") and put in an overflow menu in the action
bar. It's not particularly needed in the primary UI and would only be
an additional tap away.

[Pent]

> I must say I dislike the bottom of the screen though. The huge global
> on/off should definitely be in the action bar,

Why ? All the other screens have the same format action bar, it
disrupts that uniformity.

> even if the graphic is
> swapped for something less wide. The plus/new is something that again
> should be in the action bar at the top

Disagree again, it was too cluttered up there, especially on devices
without a menu key (i.e. with an overflow item in the AB) and with
wide enough screen to fit the tabs (profile etc) in the action bar.
Plus having it at the bottom removes
the age old 'oops I cancelled instead of adding' complaint. Plus in
lists items are usually added at the bottom, it feels more natural to
have it there. And it's there in all the other screens.

In any case, I think it needs to be directly accessible on the first
screen.

> and you should definitely lose the
> gradient from the bottom too.

Yes, I'll probably change those to upside-down holo style.

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

> Why ? All the other screens have the same format action bar, it
> disrupts that uniformity.

I obviously don't know how cluttered the action bar gets when all of
the available items that are to be displayed there are present, but in
the above screenshot, it's definitely underutilised.

Uniformity is good up to a degree, but contextualisation is of a much
larger benefit to users. Take for example the current UI (not the
refresh), if you open a task, you have two ticks, two crosses and two
pluses on the screen. Yeah there's uniformity in how it's presented
but you can only access the ones on the task. Contextually, you know
what those actions do and don't need others to say "hey it's kinda
like this but it's not it". Given that a huge part of this refresh was
to lose dialogues in favour of full screens, take advantage of that.
Offer actions in the action bar and enabling disabling is definitely
an action. And even then, it's not important enough to live in the UI
at all times.

> Disagree again, it was too cluttered up there, especially on devices
> without a menu key (i.e. with an overflow item in the AB) and with
> wide enough screen to fit the tabs (profile etc) in the action bar.
> Plus having it at the bottom removes
> the age old 'oops I cancelled instead of adding' complaint. Plus in
> lists items are usually added at the bottom, it feels more natural to
> have it there. And it's there in all the other screens.

Maybe this is simply down to us disagreeing on the definition of
cluttered, but as said, it can be dropped to the overflow. As someone
without a menu button on my phone. I think I'm more biased to
considering this from my standpoint of someone who is used to seeing
the actions up there along with the overflow menu. You can look at
BetterBatteryStats and SD Maid to see just how they've done with a lot
of content up thee. It definitely doesn't feel cluttered. Essentially
here, we're talking about conforming to a standard that's being
adhered to by a lot of app developers. The action bar is there for
actions and to avoid "oops I cancelled instead of adding" You could
simply use something like this
http://www.grokkingandroid.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/account_selection_when_adding_an_event_final.png

[Pent]

> I obviously don't know how cluttered the action bar gets when all of
> the available items that are to be displayed there are present, but in
> the above screenshot, it's definitely underutilised.

If there's too much there for the width then the navigation tabs get
converted to a pulldown, which I definitely don't want.

I came up with an in-between solution because my previous model didn't
convert well to landscape.

I put the enable button in the AB but + stays at the botton (probably
with a couple of other buttons like search etc). When the project tabs
come up, the + button moves to the right of them.

Now puzzling whether I should use a toggle button or switch (the
OFF / ON horizontal
thing) for the profile and global on/offs.

OFF / ON is clearer for the profiles but I don't like the look of it
in the main bar (and it takes up much more AB space).

Pent

[Pent]

http://tasker.dinglisch.net/ns.png

As mentioned, the + goes centre bottom when the projects are dragged
away.

I'll probably add a couple of helper icons for left and right then too
(search and similar).

Pent

[Peter Radcliffe]

The multiple bars at the top and bottom don't leave a lot of screen
real estate for actual tasks in the middle.

Option for smaller icons and less space around them?

P.

--
pir

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Ah, I see what you mean, but in that context it looks like you'd press
that to create a new project. i.e. the new tab button on browsers
being on the tab bar. It's just not very intuitive. Also + seems
overly large. It feels like it's about twice as big as it should be.
It should shrink down to the same size as the Tasker Icon and Action
Bar icons. Also what is the X for? Does that really need to be in the
Primary UI? To me it seems like something that should be in a menu.

My suggestion would be to swap the On/Off switch for a Play (Triangle)
and Stop (Square) graphic. So when on you see Play and when not you
have the Stop. That frees up space in the action bar for the Plus and
Save icons. Save would replace the Green tick (Save and Exit) we have
at present while Plus (+) would then be global and not suffer the
context of the project bar. With that you can what I assume the cross
(Cancel and Exit) in the menu/overflow button. Since that's a much
less used button and so users wouldn't mind an extra step to achieve.

[Pent]

> Ah, I see what you mean, but in that context it looks like you'd press
> that to create a new project.

But you're already used to pressing the same + button from using
Tasker without the projects showing. I don't think think that will
confuse anyone when they see it move over.

> being on the tab bar. It's just not very intuitive. Also + seems
> overly large.

Agree :-)

> It feels like it's about twice as big as it should be.
> It should shrink down to the same size as the Tasker Icon and Action
> Bar icons. Also what is the X for? Does that really need to be in the
> Primary UI? To me it seems like something that should be in a menu.

Cancel, and yes, in my opinion. It's on every screen in the same
place.

> Save icons.

There's no need for save, the < next to the app icon is (supposedly)
standard holo-ese for 'go up a level'.

> Save would replace the Green tick (Save and Exit) we have
> at present while Plus (+) would then be global and not suffer the
> context of the project bar. With that you can what I assume the cross
> (Cancel and Exit) in the menu/overflow button. Since that's a much
> less used button and so users wouldn't mind an extra step to achieve.

I like the + at the bottom :-)

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

I don't think I'll ever manage to convince you to stick the + at the
top, but I certainly gave it a go. Ultimately we're all just super
grateful to you for Tasker and trust you to do what feels good for
you.

[Pent]

> The multiple bars at the top and bottom don't leave a lot of screen
> real estate for actual tasks in the middle.

The 2nd row at the top is usually in the action bar, it's only on
narrow screens in portrait mode it goes underneath.

Pent

[Pent]

> Ultimately we're all just super
> grateful to you for Tasker and trust you to do what feels good for
> you.

Nothing feels good to me about designing UIs :-)

But it feels 'right' to separate accept/cancel and content-specific
(especially add). And since Android guideline is to have level-up with
an icon click, cancel feels right at the same level. Even though
personally I prefer controls at the bottom so you don't have to
stretch fingers over the content to use them.

I'm still vaguely considering the left-side projects but am actually
quite happy with how it looks and feels currently. Dragging down to
the projects feels 'right' too. And currently they can be visible all
the time if desired.

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

I must say the concept of moving Up out of Tasker is odd. I've yet to
see an app employ that method. I've seen going up as in going from
Action to the Task that calls it and from that Task to the Profile it
belongs to and then once more to the Project is belongs. But not
beyond that main screen. In terms of creating New Variables, New
Actions, Tasks, New Profiles, etc, I hope you'll use a simple
Save/Cancel contextual action bar as per adding an event with Google
Calendar.

[Pent]

> see an app employ that method. I've seen going up as in going from
> Action to the Task that calls it and from that Task to the Profile it
> belongs to and then once more to the Project is belongs.

That's what it's described as in the dev guide, but going back another
step seems a natural extension of that, no ?

> beyond that main screen. In terms of creating New Variables, New
> Actions, Tasks, New Profiles, etc, I hope you'll use a simple
> Save/Cancel contextual action bar as per adding an event with Google
> Calendar.

Interesting, thanks for mentioning it, hadn't see CAB before :-)

Don't think I'll have time to convert things now though, the natives
tend to get restless when there's been no update for a while.

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Not sure I agree it is natural progression, on the design guide it
does say that Up shouldn't be present at the programs main screen.
http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/navigation.html

[Pent]

> Not sure I agree it is natural progression, on the design guide it
> does say that Up shouldn't be present at the programs main >screen.http://developer.android.com/design/patterns/navigation.html

From deep in the app, instead of repeatedly pressing in the same place
to get out I have to press on the same place until the first screen,
then press some other
button or back ? Or in other words, the icon means accept-and-back
everywhere except the first screen, where some other UI element is
needed ? Doesn't make sense to me. Guess I'm too old.

Anyway, about CABs. I tried it out with the long-click on a project
tab. I have about 12 items in that menu. Maybe 3 fit in the cab, rest
go in overflow, so the vast majority of time, instead of long-click ->
menu -> do stuff, user has to do long-click -> cab -> click overflow -
> menu -> do stuff. I guess I missed something or is that silly ?

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

> From deep in the app, instead of repeatedly pressing in the same place
> to get out I have to press on the same place until the first screen,
> then press some other
> button or back ?

Yes, precisely that according to the page linked earlier

Or in other words, the icon means accept-and-back
> everywhere except the first screen, where some other UI element is
> needed ? Doesn't make sense to me. Guess I'm too old.

I can see why you'd say it's confusing. But especially in a program
like Tasker, where you'd want to get back to the top of the app
quickly, you wouldn't want to accidentally exit and save one way or
another given.

> Anyway, about CABs. I tried it out with the long-click on a project
> tab. I have about 12 items in that menu. Maybe 3 fit in the cab, rest
> go in overflow, so the vast majority of time, instead of long-click ->
> menu -> do stuff, user has to do long-click -> cab -> click overflow -
>> menu -> do stuff. I guess I missed something or is that silly ?

With that, I'd recommend adding a New Tab button at the end of the
project tab. That would remove an item from the menu required for
projects. From there, providing that you intend to add the ability to
select multiple projects at once, I'd use the menu (as I'd have the
three most important items in the action bar and the rest in the
overflow) -> item. It's one additional step for lesser used menu
items. That said, this is all moot if you don't plan to allow multiple
selection of projects. In that case I'd suggest simply using a dialog.

[Dave Fisher]

Seeing as you only use one Project at a time, and you can have lots or few, which can't be easily shown at the bottom without scrolling anyway, how about adopting the Google Maps layout for projects and have a dropdown menu at the top next to the Tasker icon ?

Eg.

< icon Project menu

Keeps it clean, removes all the cruft from the bottom. Then you can keep the On/Off at the bottom as it is in the current GUI, and have the Tick/Cross back down there as well, losing the < on the top level as a result (which makes no sense to me as there is no level above that). Also means everything is roughly where it is in the current GUI, just Holo-ised.

If moving things between projects is the main problem, then employ cut and paste actions, and they can be shown at the top action bar in the space freed by moving the cancel & on/off back to the bottom.

[Nixx]

On Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:24:30 PM UTC+1, Dave F wrote:

Seeing as you only use one Project at a time, and you can have lots or few, which can't be easily shown at the bottom without scrolling anyway, how about adopting the Google Maps layout for projects and have a dropdown menu at the top next to the Tasker icon ?

To just jump in at the middle;
I might be the only one, but I usually have 2-3 projects in tasker open at the same time that home some connection to each other (and hopefully in the future can exchange tasks etc)

would be great to keep that option..



 

[Pent]

> where you'd want to get back to the top of the app
>quickly, you wouldn't want to accidentally exit and save one way or
>another given.

Fair point. I think everyone is going to use the back key anyway, in
which case the same danger exists. I only actually put the top 'accept-
and-up' there for people without back keys.

Thanks for all your input so far, although you're probably despairing
by now :-)

As regards the CABs, I can see the use for multi-select, and might use
that in the future, but almost all my long-click things are many menu
items so I will go for minimizing clicks.

For the 'new x' dialogs, what do apps usually do ? Have a text field
in a CAB ? I don't actually use my devices for anything except
testing.

Pent

[Dave Fisher]

Here you go, this is what I mean.

Normal view:

Project Menu open:

[Michael White]

Here are 3 ideas that I came up with, and may not be hard to implement.

- When you collapse a command loop (if, for, etc...), make the copy/cut command select the whole loop instead of just the first line.

- Make it possible to assign a task name to an anonymous task linked to a scene button for example (would avoid long sessions of copy/paste)

- In the config menu have an option : don't show global variables that don't appear in the project in the dropdown variables menu. Right now I find this menu quite unusable, having to scroll down through hundreds of variables to get to the right one.

Other options could do the same with tasks (don't show tasks that aren't defined within the project), ans scenes, for the same reason.

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Glad to be of service. It's an enjoyable process.

I've found the resource for the Done and Discard action bar. http://code.google.com/p/romannurik-code/source/browse/misc/donediscard

That should solve all data entry problems. So dialogs should be left so selection and all forms are full pages.

[Pent]

> I've found the resource for the Done and Discard action bar.http://code.google.com/p/romannurik-code/source/browse/misc/donediscard

Sorry, what's that for ?

Pent

[Paul [sabret00the]]

Here's an image of it in action.

[Pent]

> Here's an image of it in action.

Ah.

But I don't want to switch to a new activity just to show a text
field.

I could show a done-discard CAB and insert a text input field under
the action bar but it doesn't seem hugely better than just popping a
dialog, since the dialogs use native deco now.

Pent