Bad News, Accessibility Service

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Pent

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Nov 11, 2017, 5:46:19 AM11/11/17
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Unfortunately, Google have decided to ban apps which use accessibility service for things
other than 'helping users with disabilities'.

I got an email with a 30 day (how generous) notice today.

I plan to replace app detection with the usage stats API. Unfortunately, this
API started with API 21, (until they restrict the usage of that....) so people
using Tasker on a pre-Lollipop device won't be able to use app contexts anymore.

There are several other little pieces of functionallity which won't work anymore,
such as the Back Button action.

Since the term is so short, I'll have even less time that usual for other issues
for the next 30 days, sorry :-(

I have a feeling I'm going to be sick of the phrase 'my app context doesn't work
anymore' long before the end of the year.

Pent

John Doe

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Nov 11, 2017, 7:55:54 AM11/11/17
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Same here. It's really a shame. In the email they said "should only be used" not "must only be used". However as usual it's just impossible to know what is right and what is wrong. Example: Tasker is an automation app and accessibility service helps people with disabilities (but not only) to automate therir life, so? Is it ok? Who knows? Just Google, but to know this thing you could be banned from play store. In addition I didn't find anything special in their guidelines and policies. They say that you can't ask more permissions than what you need, but it's not the case. I really don't know....

Rich D

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Nov 11, 2017, 8:26:27 AM11/11/17
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Unfortunately, Google have decided to ban apps which use accessibility service for things
other than 'helping users with disabilities'.

So, if  have my disabled paperwork I can  keep using Tasker with accessibility service...    :/



I plan to replace app detection with the usage stats API. Unfortunately, this
API started with API 21, (until they restrict the usage of that....) so people
using Tasker on a pre-Lollipop device won't be able to use app contexts anymore.

Wow.. I was just saying the other day that I really had very little tasker updating to do going from a android 4.1.2 device to a 8.0 pixel 2.  Most all of my antique profiles worked just fine.. Till now.. :)




Since the term is so short, I'll have even less time that usual for other issues
for the next 30 days, sorry :-(


Do you think we will get a update with the new API and old accessibility service before the update that removes accessibility. Then we can disable updates till we get our profiles updated?

Thanks,   Rich..

Pent

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Nov 11, 2017, 8:27:37 AM11/11/17
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My commiserations JD.


Same here. It's really a shame. In the email they said "should only be used" not "must only be used".

Heh, that's similar to if they'd written 'must only be used' and you could argue they didn't say 'absolutely, totally must not be used' :-)

It's the 'only' that's the killer...

But I'm going to leave in the accessibility code, I'll make the usage stats an option if there's a big outcry
and they change their wording.

Pent

John Doe

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Nov 11, 2017, 8:36:07 AM11/11/17
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Ahah thanks Pent :) Usage stats api are already used by intentask and it isn't too bad, since Tasker already have a foreground service even better. However as you said there are several things without a fallback :/ Damn Google.

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 11, 2017, 9:42:31 AM11/11/17
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Except you can't argue with Google. Don't like it? How about you unpublish your app. We already arranged it for you. And even better, you can't upload anything ever again.

In my apps I use the notification click event to do stuff when my own notifications are tapped. Tasker requests accessibility service anyway. Would be great if you could make it optional.

Pent

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Nov 11, 2017, 9:57:57 AM11/11/17
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Do you think we will get a update with the new API
and old accessibility service before the update that removes accessibility. Then we can disable updates till we get our profiles updated?


I don't know if I will publish to Play Store, but I can publish a version here with usage stats for app
context and everything else the same, if it helps. I didn't understand why that will help you, but
that doesn't matter :-)

Pent

Kurt Kaufman

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Nov 11, 2017, 10:55:57 AM11/11/17
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What makes an app useful to "the disabled", and how is that determined? Will there be a "disabled registry" so that some arbitrary official board can somehow determine whether or not a given app passes muster? :-/

Gilles P

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Nov 11, 2017, 11:30:29 AM11/11/17
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That's really sad,
Side effect: many people will have to switch to non Play Store equivalent apps to achieve the same results, which is not a good thing for security in addition.

Pent

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Nov 11, 2017, 11:55:25 AM11/11/17
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Potentially, App Factory can generate helper apps with stuff that's banned by Play Store, but I'm not
sure if I want to go there or not at this point.

Pent

Thom Little

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Nov 11, 2017, 12:24:24 PM11/11/17
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I believe strongly that Google compliance is a requirement ... unfortunate .... but a requirement.

... Thom 

Jeremy Kane

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Nov 11, 2017, 2:07:16 PM11/11/17
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I got a similar email yesterday for my app. Gonna use the same fix Pent is, but that's a "sub-optimal" solution.

On my third and fourth read of the email, it is clear that the permission to use accessibility service must be removed, or your app will be removed.

"If ... the permission is being used for something other than helping users with disabilities use Android devices and apps:
Remove your request for this permission from your app’s manifest.
Sign in to your Play Console and upload your modified, policy-compliant APK."

Rich B

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Nov 11, 2017, 3:45:30 PM11/11/17
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Why does Google even care if apps use accessibility services for something other than assisting the disabled? What possibly difference could it make? Seems like they just keep removing features with no real reason.

Stephen Davey

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Nov 11, 2017, 8:23:50 PM11/11/17
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Would it be possible to strip those services out and then add them in later using plugins?

Jim Becker

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Nov 12, 2017, 4:55:37 AM11/12/17
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Having read this, I decided to give Google some feedback using Google Play feedback.
I suggested that they consider talking with the automation app developers instead of sending an email.
I also suggested to them that developers did not seek disability services as a best practice, but as a workaround to previous Google decisions.
I also suggested that the users of these automation apps are great ambassadors for Android.
I suggest that we start an email campaign making positive suggestions for resolving this matter in a way that is mutually beneficial.
After all of these I statements, please consider this idea. If you have access to other automation app forums, please spread the word about an email campaign.

Jim Becker

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Nov 12, 2017, 4:58:16 AM11/12/17
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Here is my message to Google. It was written quickly. Ease improve the message.

"I just found out through an online forum that Google has given app developers 30 days to remove all usage of disability services for apps that are not providing assistance to the disabled.

While that sounds good, there are a number of device automation apps that use disability services as a workaround to do things that Google has banned apps from performing.

Please remember that the users of these automation apps want these apps to perform all if these functions. That's why they bought the apps and spend significant time implementing their personal automation.

One of the reasons these automation app developers went down this path is the removal of permissions for apps to turn mobile data on/off, gps on/off, etc.

These are some of the basics that automation app users wanted to perform. But Google took that away without considering the automation apps.

This started the developers on the road to disability services as a workaround. They didn't do this out of malevolence or any other reason, only that it was the best available work around.

Please remember that these developers were responding to their users.

So now there is a significant number of happy Android users doing great things with their phones. They really are great ambassadors for Android. When I tell other engineers at work about my phone automation, they are really interested.

The question now becomes, how to keep a set of vocal Android supporters happy instead of alienating them. I don't think that Google really wants to alienate all of them.

My suggestion is that Google should have a web meeting with the developers to get ideas on a common path forward. How can Google support this use of Android devices? It is not only phones, but tablets and other devices that let users install apps.

One path forward is to set up an app classification for automation apps, where users have to agree that they want these automation apps to do things on their Android device that are not allowed by standard permissions. This may require sending a request to Google Play that gives an email/notification response with a link to set up this option.

Perhaps a section in the Settings app, like Developer options, would be a place for users to select the type of automation they want to do on their device.

While there is a significant number of automation app users, most of us are nerds due to the effort required. If Google could roll back the road blocks that caused developers to use work arounds, then more developers would move into this market because using straight forward documentation is much easier than figuring out the work arounds.

This is a significant opportunity for Google to show that they can work with developers, not just throw ideas over the wall.

Thanks for your patience in reading this email.

Jim Becker"

Jeremy Kane

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Nov 12, 2017, 9:45:48 AM11/12/17
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Personally, I've asked for a feature to be added to Google Play Services, perhaps as an additional context in the Awareness API, to allow some of the functionality. Wouldn't ever include being able to read from third-party apps, but would work for Pent and my use-case

Karl Wood

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Nov 12, 2017, 10:23:21 AM11/12/17
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On Saturday, 11 November 2017 10:46:19 UTC, Pent wrote:
Unfortunately, Google have decided to ban apps which use accessibility service for things
other than 'helping users with disabilities'.

Pent

I have Parkinson's Disease. Tasker and the AutoApps help me cope. 

Google, I'm begging you, grant these tools an exception. 


Jim Becker

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Nov 12, 2017, 11:09:04 AM11/12/17
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Unfortunately Google doesn't read these posts. Please go to Help & Feedback section in the PlayStore app. From there you can give Google some feedback.

techguyone

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Nov 12, 2017, 12:08:44 PM11/12/17
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On Sunday, 12 November 2017 16:09:04 UTC, Jim Becker wrote:
Unfortunately Google doesn't read these posts. Please go to Help & Feedback section in the PlayStore app. From there you can give Google some feedback.

Feedback sent,dunno if it'll do any good, but can't hurt any. 

Richard Belthoff

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Nov 12, 2017, 12:37:54 PM11/12/17
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Techguyone, I'm glad you contacted them. I figured there has to be disabled people using Tasker even though it's not specifically a "disabled" app. Maybe they'll listen. 

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Pent

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Nov 12, 2017, 12:47:00 PM11/12/17
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http://www.androidpolice.com/2017/11/12/google-will-remove-play-store-apps-use-accessibility-services-anything-except-helping-disabled-users/

I've got the alternative API working already for the app context, it will use
a tiny bit more battery.

Other things affected:

Events: Button Clicked, Notification Clicked, New Window
Variables: %WIN
Actions: Long Power, Back Button, Toggle App Dock, Quick Settings, Show Recents, Status Bar

For some I may be able to come up with a workaround.

Pent

Ian Grody

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Nov 12, 2017, 2:36:35 PM11/12/17
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This is extremely bad new. The sole reason I started using Tasker to assist with my Asperger's and day to day needs. Over the last 3/4 years, I have become heavily dependent upon not just Tasker, but several plugins by Joaomgcd.

I am hoping that you can justify Taskers' use via descriptions etc. as requested. Many customers would complain to Google (myself included) if your app was pulled.

This report is extremely concerning for me. My Android will become unfit for purpose should I lose these apps. Work arounds are not acceptable. My Tasks and Projects are tuned to work exactly as I need. Google are potentially discriminating against disabled users with this choice. Here in the UK, that is an offence.

If necessary, I am more than happy to repurchase Tasker and my plugins that depend on accessibility should they need to be purchased outside of Play. Google wont get their 30% and the developers can continue to make their apps be fully functional. I am extremely angry at Google for this.

I know many users who are disabled that depend on Tasker and many plugins for similar reasons. As a disabled user and a tech savvy tinker, I fully endorse your app for purpose to enable users such as myself be able to live a normal as possible life. Without them, the quality of my life will be greatly diminished.

Thank you.

Lior Iluz

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Nov 12, 2017, 3:20:46 PM11/12/17
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I'm the dev of Overlays - floating Automation.

Pent,
I wrote a question once on stack overflow regarding app context: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30619349/android-5-1-1-and-above-getrunningappprocesses-returns-my-application-packag

I'm sure you're familiar with all the solutions and workarounds and I'm to going to choose Usage statistics API to solve this but I've read in comments to my question and some other places that Samsung and other vendors removed the Usage statistics permission settings from their devices, meaning this solutions won't work on over 50% of the market devices.

Are you familiar with that? Any workaround?

Thanks.

QuenClab

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Nov 12, 2017, 10:05:04 PM11/12/17
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I have an app in the play store and got the notification from google today. It says that My app is requesting ‘android.permission.BIND_ACCESSIBILITY_SERVICE.’  but when look in the permissions when you export it is not listed. When I install the app it is not listed as one of the permissions either. 

Pent

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Nov 13, 2017, 3:33:04 AM11/13/17
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I'm sure you're familiar with all the solutions and workarounds and I'm to going to choose Usage statistics API to solve this but I've read in comments to my question and some other places that Samsung and other vendors removed the Usage statistics permission settings from their devices, meaning this solutions won't work on over 50% of the market devices.


I just tested on S7 (7.0), S8 (7.0) and Pixel C (8.0) without problem.

Pent

- Jubaz -

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Nov 13, 2017, 5:47:22 AM11/13/17
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I would like some advice, I too have got this email regarding a small app on play store.
I have no clue on how to get the exported kid app not to show in Accessibility Service.
What do I need to remove to make it export without using Accessibility Service.
Will there be a Tasker with "limited" functions to be able to export without using Accessibility Service?
Sorry if this seems as dumb questions to you guys but I am just a Tasker user, and Android Studio is beyond my skills. 

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 13, 2017, 7:05:25 AM11/13/17
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"...to all features that rely on an Accessibility Service (events Notification, New Window, Button Widget Clicked, Notification Click, variables %NTITLE, %WIN, App Context from min version 20+)"

But even if you remove everything, there is no guarantee it won't request the permission anyway. I've had tasker show up a toast because of missing accessibility service permission in a Variable Clear action occasionally. Also atm there is a serious bug that makes tasker mix and confuse different projects into each other (I reported this lower down).

For app creation it would be really great if we could customize the manifest.

parosen

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Nov 13, 2017, 7:25:57 AM11/13/17
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Pent, what if you create a helper app which handles all accessibility services related stuff? Perhaps it's easier to justify and no functionality is lost

whitedavidp

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Nov 13, 2017, 11:42:39 AM11/13/17
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On Monday, November 13, 2017 at 4:25:57 AM UTC-8, parosen wrote:
Pent, what if you create a helper app which handles all accessibility services related stuff? Perhaps it's easier to justify and no functionality is lost

Pent, I totally agree with this approach. The helper could be distributed off-Play Store. To loose these important features of your outstanding app would be a travesty. I would rather stop updating Tasker than live without these features.

Pent

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Nov 13, 2017, 1:04:40 PM11/13/17
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Pent, what if you create a helper app which handles all accessibility services related stuff? Perhaps it's easier to justify and no functionality is lost

It's in my head already, there are not-immediately-obvious problems with it which
I would have to investigate.

Pent

Pent

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Nov 13, 2017, 1:08:05 PM11/13/17
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What do I need to remove to make it export without using Accessibility Service.

I posted a few posts up the things that need accessibility.
 
Note that if you e.g. do Perform Task to a task outside the project you are exporting,
that task and all things it links to (e.g. scenes via Show Scene) will also be scanned
for needing accessibility. You need to check very carefully that you are not accidentally
referencing any scene, task or profile that might, directly or indirectly, reference something
needing accessibility.

Pent

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 13, 2017, 2:53:32 PM11/13/17
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That seems like an impractical approach. My project(s) consists of dozens of scenes with dozens of small tasks each. It's possible that there is something left there hidden or disabled, that references to something of another project.

Checking everything would take ages.

Rishabh Gupta

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Nov 13, 2017, 11:35:48 PM11/13/17
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Can you not continue to upload apk files on your website (with accessibility access). Everyone can sideload the app.

On the playstore, you may upload an app which when opened will take us to your website's download page. So that you go against the rules & the app stays good.

With the current change, Tasker & all other great apps will become useless for many.

PLEASE UPLOAD APK WITH ACCESSIBILITY SERVICE PERMISSION ON YOUR WEBSITE.

Abdullah Alahdal

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Nov 14, 2017, 12:06:06 AM11/14/17
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I have a feeling I'm going to be sick of the phrase 'my app context doesn't work
anymore' long before the end of the year.


I think it is good to highlight for people who are using xposed that there is a module which works as the app context trigger. 

Pent

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Nov 14, 2017, 3:19:59 AM11/14/17
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That seems like an impractical approach. My project(s) consists of dozens of scenes with dozens of small tasks each. It's possible that there is something left there hidden or disabled, that references to something of another project.



You can also search for the relevant actions, events etc, the results are grouped by project.

Pent

Pent

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Nov 14, 2017, 3:20:28 AM11/14/17
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That seems like an impractical approach. My project(s) consists of dozens of scenes with dozens of small tasks each. It's possible that there is something left there hidden or disabled, that references to something of another project.



You can also search for the relevant actions, events etc, the results are grouped by project.

I mean with the search function :-)

Pent

Pent

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Nov 14, 2017, 3:23:00 AM11/14/17
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xposed isn't needed, there's another solution, but there will still be people who don't read
popups about the need to enable a different service etc Some people just like to complain
whenever anything at all changes.

Pent

whitedavidp

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Nov 14, 2017, 12:35:38 PM11/14/17
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It does seem to be that humans are change averse. But in my experience users are much more understanding and willing if they are made to fully understand the reasons why the change is required and if enough information/mechanisms are provided to cope with the change. It puts even more load on the developer, this is true. And developers like to develop, not document in my experience. Thankfully, in the case of Tasker, I think the user community is more advanced than those of typical apps. It is simply required by the nature of the app. So with some luck it won't be as bad as all that. Thanks again for an amazing app. I keep finding more and more to do with it. Cheers!

Pent

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Nov 15, 2017, 2:22:45 AM11/15/17
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On Monday, 13 November 2017 20:53:32 UTC+1, Alexander Graetz wrote:
That seems like an impractical approach. My project(s) consists of dozens of scenes with dozens of small tasks each. It's possible that there is something left there hidden or disabled, that references to something of another project.

Checking everything would take ages.


BTW, next version (on Play Store), accessibility will not be included ever.

Pent

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 15, 2017, 3:15:10 AM11/15/17
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Awesome! That fixes all of my problems :-) Thank you very much!

techguyone

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Nov 15, 2017, 4:03:46 AM11/15/17
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On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 07:22:45 UTC, Pent wrote:

BTW, next version (on Play Store), accessibility will not be included ever.

Pent

What work around did you decide on in the end? 

Ian Grody

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Nov 15, 2017, 4:37:57 AM11/15/17
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On Wednesday, 15 November 2017 07:22:45 UTC, Pent wrote
BTW, next version (on Play Store), accessibility will not be included ever.

Pent

Will the non play version still have it? If so, I will just repurchase that version since Google has forced you to essentially destroy a critical feature needed by folk like me. 

Thanks. 

Milos K

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Nov 15, 2017, 6:11:46 AM11/15/17
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Its official, google has lost its mind.

This accessibility service update should not affect paid apps! EVER!

I disabled automatic updates so hopefully I will be left frozen in time with current tasker version.

As one developer to another thank you again for this work of art app Pent!


techguyone

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Nov 15, 2017, 6:13:47 AM11/15/17
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Can't you just put a paid tasker 'key' app on playstore with the real tasker app elsewhere ( that only works if the key app is loaded and verified) 

Pent

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Nov 15, 2017, 7:12:25 AM11/15/17
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> Will the non play version still have it?

I'm trying to make that the case, for the sake of existing users, so far it's looking good.


> If so, I will just repurchase that version

Not possible since 2013, sorry.

Pent

Pent

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Nov 15, 2017, 7:13:56 AM11/15/17
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Can't you just put a paid tasker 'key' app on playstore with the real tasker app elsewhere ( that only works if the key app is loaded and verified) 

No, sorry, that's not good for various reasons.

I am looking at various solutions.

Pent

S. H.

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Nov 15, 2017, 7:25:16 PM11/15/17
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I found that the Phone -> Call state (call in progress state) also relies on accessibility service, but it’s not on your list. Will there be a workaround for it? Please!

Relevant thread: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/tasker/mqDan5v0oBs

Pent

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Nov 16, 2017, 2:51:19 AM11/16/17
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On Thursday, 16 November 2017 01:25:16 UTC+1, S. H. wrote:
I found that the Phone -> Call state (call in progress state) also relies on accessibility service,

It doesn't.

Pent

Scott Almond

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Nov 16, 2017, 11:59:56 AM11/16/17
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Takser is the very first app i WOULD recommend to any disabled person, i honestly don't think Tasker should have any issues with this permission. Simply make the first paragraph of the play store description an explanation about how it can help disabled people.

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 10:46:19 UTC, Pent wrote:
Unfortunately, Google have decided to ban apps which use accessibility service for things
other than 'helping users with disabilities'.

I got an email with a 30 day (how generous) notice today.

I plan to replace app detection with the usage stats API. Unfortunately, this
API started with API 21, (until they restrict the usage of that....) so people
using Tasker on a pre-Lollipop device won't be able to use app contexts anymore.

There are several other little pieces of functionallity which won't work anymore,
such as the Back Button action.

Since the term is so short, I'll have even less time that usual for other issues
for the next 30 days, sorry :-(

I have a feeling I'm going to be sick of the phrase 'my app context doesn't work
anymore' long before the end of the year.

Pent

Scott Almond

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Nov 16, 2017, 12:17:52 PM11/16/17
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Since you get 30 days to comply, any chance you can still push accessibility service versions of the app until the deadline? Would be nice for those of us who choose to stop updating, to at least get any final bug fixes/features. (that is if you happen to have anything in the works) ;-)

Regards
Scott

Rich B

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Nov 16, 2017, 1:12:24 PM11/16/17
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Are you saying Phone Call state doesn't rely on accessiblity? S.H. and I have speakerphone profiles that don't work unless we have accessibility on. Maybe accessibility affects the proximity sensor or orientation? Something with accessibility is interfering with our profiles because when it's off for Tasker the speakerphone will not turn on/off depending on when the phone is against your ear or not. Thanks.

Pent

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Nov 16, 2017, 2:10:29 PM11/16/17
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Since you get 30 days to comply, any chance you can still push accessibility service versions of the app until the deadline? Would be nice for those of us who choose to stop updating, to at least get any final bug fixes/features. (that is if you happen to have anything in the works) ;-)

 I don't have anything significant, I was still in rest-and-bugfix mode after the UI update, sorry.

Pent

hollywoodfrodo

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Nov 16, 2017, 3:28:01 PM11/16/17
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Not that I have any pull with Google, but I sent a very strong message via Play Store Feedback regarding this new mandate and expressed how it would pretty much eliminate my excuses for staying with Android over iPhone.  Hopefully enough people will reach out to them to make a difference and cause them to reconsider.  I understand why they are doing what they are doing from a security for the general public reason, but there needs to be exceptions to the rule. At the very least they could allow apps like Tasker and AutoApps to be submitted for special consideration since both devs have had their apps on the Play Store for years and obviously aren't using them maliciously.

If you use Tasker in any way, send feedback to Google through the Play store and/or Google Help Forums.  The only way they'll consider a different stance is if enough people express concern...


S. H.

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Nov 17, 2017, 9:48:37 AM11/17/17
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Are you sure? If then, it must be a bug or something. It's not just me who didn't get the Call state activate without accessibility service on.

Marcel Martínek

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Nov 17, 2017, 5:56:39 PM11/17/17
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From what I can see in this discussion it looks like that people with health issues / disabilities are using Tasker to ease their daily tasks. Wouldn't it be acceptable for Google approval to have configuration switch that would turn it on/off for purpose of people that need Accessibility Service, disabled by default? Or moving this feature to extra plug-in, as somebody here in the discussion proposed? (One of the automation apps is separating functionality into separate plug-ins/modules for different authorizations. And Accessibility Service plug-in wouldn't need to be on Play store, it can be sideloaded.) Or, as a last chance, to make these functions root-only feature?
I sent an email to Google with a disagreement and arguments against their decision - at least to be +1 vote. I also included argument that disallowing functionality that was available before will take advanced users to the need of rooting their phones. Until now that was not necessary for most of the functionality, and rooting the phone will unlikely be safer approach...
Projected in "real life", it is like Google disallowing selling of magnifying glass to people without sight disabilities. But what if you are coin or stamp collector or electronic enthusiast? You still need it, so you will go and probably get it from black market...

David Mark

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Nov 17, 2017, 9:22:02 PM11/17/17
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So Google asked for an explanation from the authors of the affected apps as to how they can help the disabled?

Clearly the authors should at least *try* to provide one. Seems like a slam dunk in the case of Tasker. For one, it is often used to speak notifications from other apps. Can also be used to forward notifications to displays large enough to read by the sight-impaired.

Not to mention that being able to hear notifications while driving contributes to safer roads. Such a benefit is not exclusive to the disabled, but certainly falls under accessibility.

What's the worst that can happen? They deny your claims? Seems far-fetched, but the only penalty would be exactly what appears to be happening now by default: removing useful features from the paid version. And surely at least some competitors will survive this "crisis" by simply making their case as a helper of the disabled.

Anyway, I don't care as long as I can still get an APK from somewhere that has the accessibility features, preferably with updates available on occasion.

Haven't seen much discussion about notification events, other than one mention of %NTITLE. I don't use %NTITLE as it is global, but assume that if it goes then the related event parameters will as well.

John Doe

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Nov 18, 2017, 1:50:47 AM11/18/17
to Tasker
Developers can't just "try". If Google doesn't accept your point of view you are just banned (or just your app it depends on how many violations you did in the past) and you can't do anything, the risk is really high.

Jay M

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:08:33 AM11/18/17
to tas...@googlegroups.com

aye 3 strikes and your out from what ive been told


On Sat, 18 Nov 2017, 6:50 am John Doe, <playappa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Developers can't just "try". If Google doesn't accept your point of view you are just banned (or just your app it depends on how many violations you did in the past) and you can't do anything, the risk is really high.

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Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:51:19 AM11/18/17
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> So Google asked for an explanation from the authors of the affected apps as to how they can help the disabled?

No, they want an explanation of how the app is targetted *only* to help the disabled.


Clearly the authors should at least *try* to provide one.


I can't, Tasker is clearly useful to other people too.

Pent

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 4:40:00 AM11/18/17
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Haven't seen much discussion about notification events, other than one mention of %NTITLE. I don't use %NTITLE as it is global, but assume that if it goes then the related event parameters will as well.


%NTITLE is handled by notification listener service these days, not accessibility.

Pent

techguyone

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Nov 18, 2017, 6:40:45 AM11/18/17
to Tasker
What's a real eye opener to me is the lack of any human contact with Google, somewhere you can talk stuff around a forum or something, I'd have thought the number of years Tasker has been active for example along with the high number of users plus the active internet presence around the app would give you some room to be able to talk to someone without the risk of summary execution. google seem to be turning into  the very thing they started off hating. What happened to 'Don't be evil' 

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 7:19:04 AM11/18/17
to Tasker

Since you get 30 days to comply, any chance you can still push accessibility service versions of the app until the deadline? Would be nice for those of us who choose to stop updating, to at least get any final bug fixes/features. (that is if you happen to have anything in the works) ;-)

 I don't have anything significant, I was still in rest-and-bugfix mode after the UI update, sorry.

... except the possibility to choose between acessibility and usage stats in prefs, which I will
publish here before too long.

Pent

Rich D

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Nov 18, 2017, 7:42:32 AM11/18/17
to Tasker Google Groups Post


Will we still retain the ability to go back to a previous versions?

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 10:20:23 AM11/18/17
to Tasker

Will we still retain the ability to go back to a previous versions?

After when ? The coming beta ? Yes, there's no data change, you
might have to delete the beta first because the manifest version number is
higher.

Pent

Rich D

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Nov 18, 2017, 10:55:38 AM11/18/17
to Tasker Google Groups Post



After when ? 

Sorry I should have given more details..

I meant both. After the beta and after a play store update to the new version without accessibility service.  Or would that be considered illegal.. 

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 11:37:38 AM11/18/17
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I don't buy that at all. If they disagree, the author would not be immediately banned without a chance to comply. Who told you that?

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 11:40:00 AM11/18/17
to Tasker
That's great news, but not sure why %NTITLE was cited earlier in the thread.

What about widget icons on home screen (with clicks?)

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 11:46:02 AM11/18/17
to Tasker
The *only* the disabled caveat sounds like a complete crock. Makes zero sense as apps could be useful to both able and disabled.

That's another point to address in author explanations and user feedback (latter likely useless).

whitedavidp

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Nov 18, 2017, 12:31:42 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
I was contacted by Google regarding one of my apps. I was a file uploader helper app that worked alongside the Google MyTracks app - which was open source. My app simply took the output files from MyTracks and allowed the user to easily upload them to various websites like Strava. Anyhow, Google simply told me my app violated some policy of theirs. I replied back asking for clarification. They simply pointed me at their policy page for Play Store apps and could not (or would not) be specific about what the problem was. I finally was given the choice to unpublish the app or have my account closed. I chose the former since I have several other apps on Play Store. I still have no idea what their issue was with this one app. But this is a fine example of how Google handles these things. It is their sandbox. They are the one and only boss. There is no room for compromise or even discussion.

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 12:56:08 PM11/18/17
to Tasker


On Saturday, 18 November 2017 17:40:00 UTC+1, David Mark wrote:
That's great news, but not sure why %NTITLE was cited earlier in the thread.

Not by me I hope and think.

What about widget icons on home screen (with clicks?)


Nothing to do with it, just the things I listed on my 4th post in this thread.

Pent

John Doe

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Nov 18, 2017, 12:57:13 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
Same here. The last time it happened the same to me, I tried to send them an email, they didn't reply. Google doesn't provide any kind of feedback and there's no space for discussion. I tried to use the form in email they sent and guess what! When you use the submit button it provides an unknown error. I tried to write to google play console team via chat (was it a bot? I don't know, lol) they replied only policy team can reply but they can't reply in this moment (what does it mean? No idea). I'm still waiting for a feedback....

I'm agree with Pent's point of view, after I re-read several times their email, the message is clear, the app is not compliant with the guideline, i.e. the accessibility service must be used only to provide features to people with disabilities. IMHO the word "only" here it means that the primary goal of the service and the app implementation have as target people with disabilities. It doesn't mean people without disabilities can't use it, but I'm agree that it just another mess created by Google.

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 1:00:38 PM11/18/17
to Tasker

I meant both. After the beta and after a play store update to the new version without accessibility service.  Or would that be considered illegal.. 

In any case, all the versions I put out in the near future will allow reverting, since
I havn't made any data changes. You might have to delete and install from scratch
if the manifest version number is lower.

Pent

Pent

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Nov 18, 2017, 1:06:54 PM11/18/17
to Tasker

Same here. The last time it happened the same to me, I tried to send them an email, they didn't reply. Google doesn't provide any kind of feedback and there's no space for discussion.

The old lack of competition thing unfortunately, they've been like that as long
as I remember, in all areas where I've had to have interaction with them.

Pent

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:29:34 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
The anecdote about the uploaded app is irrelevant.

They asked for explanations. If they don't buy them, then would have to comply within the thirty day window.

There's no immediate penalty for trying to explain.

Also think this "only disabled" stipulation is a misinterpretation. Post the letter...

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:37:35 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
The anecdote about the broken feedback form is also irrelevant.

Post the text of the email. AIUI, they are asking for explanations and there is a thirty day window to do so. Couldn't hurt to *try*.

Maybe they won't respond. Maybe they will disagree. So what? No worse off than the proposed default surrender.

Maybe they grant an exception for an app with features that clearly help disabled people.

Pent, I assume English is not your first language, so post the wording of the letter. May be that you are misinterpreting their demands.

David Mark

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:40:29 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
No Pent, you were not the person who posted about %NTITLE being affected. There is a lot of uninformed speculation in this thread. :)

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:48:55 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
The info about %NTITLE comes from the guide and I've posted it here.

Who ever things you can reason or argue with Google: you can't. If your business and income are at stake, you just can't. "Google" it, it's all over the net. Google doesn't give two shits about small developers. Unless you're big and I mean BIG you better do everything they ask.

John Doe

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Nov 18, 2017, 3:54:27 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
Maybe you are right, maybe not, but no one wants to be banned. They didn't ask for explanation, they said: fix your app or unpublish it. One way to fix it is to put a disclaimer but after 30 days you have two options: Google doesn't agree and ban the app (or account), Google is agree with you and you are ok. If Tasker (or other app) is banned I have serious doubt that the statement "David Mark said it was ok" will work, unless you work for Google policy team.

Jim Becker

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Nov 18, 2017, 7:11:53 PM11/18/17
to tas...@googlegroups.com
@David Marks,
Quit bitching at Pent. You are not adding anything constructive to this post.

If you do want to help, then complain directly to Google using the help and
feedback section of the PlayStore app. Please give a history of why
disability services are used. They (Google) took away a number of key
capabilities in the early to mid life versions of Android because of user
feedback.

They (Google) have been mad at Automation app developers, like Pent, since
then because these developers look for creative solutions to get around
Google's restrictions. Ask them (Google) why they don't permit classes of
apps to do those things that are against the rules if users agree that they
want the capability.

They have punished developers and users because they (Google) have catered
to the whining masses who did not understand or pay attention to the
permissions they were granting to apps.

@Everyone reading this post, please respond to Google using the help and
feedback section of the PlayStore app. This seems to be the only way to
send a message to Google.
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Raul SC

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Nov 18, 2017, 7:37:48 PM11/18/17
to Tasker
I currently use several profiles that show a scene superimposed on other applications, I have tested it without the accessibility service and it does not work.

Is there an alternative solution for this?

Jay M

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Nov 18, 2017, 7:43:48 PM11/18/17
to tas...@googlegroups.com
Yeah English might not be Pents first language but hes either mastered it or hes using the best translator ive ever seen. Ive been hanging around this group for years and read plenty of his posts and his English is flawless. Its actually better than mine and English is all i know. I have to Google a lot of the words he uses but yeah really cant fault his English id stake my house on him understanding the email from Google perfectly. Anyways heres the email.


Raul SC

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Nov 18, 2017, 8:04:10 PM11/18/17
to tas...@googlegroups.com
Sorry for this comment, I was wrong.

The accessibility service does not affect the time to show scenes superimposed "pop-ups"

My problem, is that I was using the context of "open application"

We will have to wait to see how alternative solutions work.

Google's unfortunate decision, clearly Tasker can be very useful for people with disabilities.

El 19 nov. 2017 1:38 a. m., "Raul SC" <rau...@gmail.com> escribió:
I currently use several profiles that show a scene superimposed on other applications, I have tested it without the accessibility service and it does not work.

Is there an alternative solution for this?
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Pent

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Nov 19, 2017, 2:45:29 AM11/19/17
to Tasker


The info about %NTITLE comes from the guide and I've posted it here.

Will fix, thanks.

Pent

Pent

unread,
Nov 20, 2017, 4:28:56 AM11/20/17
to Tasker
The guide says (I havn't changed it):

The title of the last notification shown in the status bar. Prior to KitKat, requires Tasker's accessibility server
to be running (see Android Accessibility Settings). From KitKat, requires Tasker's Notification Listener service
to be running instead.

Pent

Pent

unread,
Nov 20, 2017, 4:51:48 AM11/20/17
to Tasker
p.s. in this whole thread, anytime I don't mention a Tasker version, I'm talking about 5.0+.

Pent

Pent

unread,
Nov 20, 2017, 5:36:47 AM11/20/17
to Tasker
I published a prerelease (see sticky thread) where the usage stats can be tested with
the app context, but accessibility is still available.

Pent

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 20, 2017, 5:42:30 AM11/20/17
to Tasker
What's going to happen to the notification event? It can work without accessibility but only notices taps on notifications created by the kid app itself.

I use this very often

Pent

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Nov 20, 2017, 6:09:20 AM11/20/17
to Tasker


On Monday, 20 November 2017 11:42:30 UTC+1, Alexander Graetz wrote:
What's going to happen to the notification event? It can work without accessibility but only notices taps on notifications created by the kid app itself

Notification or Notification Click ? You named the first but described the second.

Pent

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 20, 2017, 6:45:25 AM11/20/17
to Tasker
Click :-)

Pent

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Nov 20, 2017, 6:51:01 AM11/20/17
to Tasker

Click :-)

I can't give you an answer at this point, sorry.

Pent

Melo

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Nov 20, 2017, 7:32:50 PM11/20/17
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Melo

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Nov 20, 2017, 7:33:25 PM11/20/17
to Tasker
Hope*

Jeffrey Eng

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Nov 21, 2017, 11:43:29 AM11/21/17
to Tasker
Pent,

First off, thank you for all your hard work.  I'm a long time Tasker user, and it's now part of my daily life.  I'm currently exporting my own project, but I'm concerned that my app will utilize accessibility functionality.  

Is there a way to double check if our Tasker Factory app exports will be affected?    

Alexander Graetz

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Nov 21, 2017, 11:47:19 AM11/21/17
to Tasker
Only way is to install the app and check if it shows up in settings/accessibility. If it does you have to remove the functions using accessibility it wait for a version of tasker without accessibility

Rich B

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Nov 21, 2017, 9:42:52 PM11/21/17
to Tasker
This post seems to suggest that an app can keep accessibility functions if there is an explanation as to how the app uses such services to assist the disabled.

https://plus.google.com/+JoãoDias/posts/iduHfoSN9Xv

Robert Lott III

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Nov 22, 2017, 8:55:19 PM11/22/17
to Tasker
Perhaps contacting disability-su...@google.com may help get Google to internally reconsider.
See this: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/eyes-free/rcU_sR7a12g
Message has been deleted

David Mark

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Dec 12, 2017, 1:02:44 AM12/12/17
to Tasker
As expected, the situation never called for a knee-jerk reaction. Google solicited justifications within a 30 day window, which has now been extended. They won't instantly ban your app if you dare to "argue" with them. :)

https://www.androidauthority.com/accessibility

See that the %NTITLE confusion has been cleared up as well. Carry on...

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