Re: [MinTamil] இந்தியா -இந்தியன்
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S. Jayabarathan
May 22, 2018, 9:36:49 AM5/22/18
to mintamil, vallamai, tamilmantram, vannan vannan, vaiyavan mspm, Aravindan Neelakandan, Oru Arizonan, Kalairajan Krishnan, Asan Buhari, Anna Kannan, Anne Josephine
இந்தியாவைப் பற்றித் தெரியாத பகுத்தறிவு வாதிகளுக்கு !!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India
The Indian subcontinent was home to the urban Indus Valley Civilisation of the 3rd millennium BCE—one of the world's earliest civilisations. In the following millennium, the oldest scriptures associated with Hinduism began to be composed. Large-scale urbanisation occurred on the Ganges in the first millennium BCE leading to the Mahajanapadas, and Buddhism and Jainism arose.
Early political consolidations took place under the Maurya, Satavahana and Gupta empires; the later peninsular Middle Kingdoms influenced cultures as far as Southeast Asia. In the medieval era, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Islam arrived, and Sikhism emerged, all adding to the region's diverse culture. Much of the north fell to the Delhi sultanate; the south was united under the Vijayanagara Empire.
The country was unified in the 17th century by the Mughal Empire. In the 18th century, the subcontinent came under the Maratha Empireand in the 19th under the British East India Company, later shifting to British crown rule. A nationalist movement emerged in the late 19th century, which later, under Mahatma Gandhi, was noted for nonviolent resistance and led to India's independence in 1947.
In 2017, the Indian economy was the world's sixth largest by nominal GDP and third largest by purchasing power parity.[16] Following market-based economic reforms in 1991, India became one of the fastest-growing major economies and is considered a newly industrialised country. However, it continues to face the challenges of poverty, corruption, malnutrition, and inadequate public healthcare. A nuclear weapons state and regional power, it has the second largest standing army in the world and ranks fifth in military expenditure among nations.
India is a federal republic governed under a parliamentary system and consists of 29 states and 7 union territories. India is widely recognised for its wide cinema, rich cuisine and lush wildlife and vegetation. It is a pluralistic, multilingual and multi-ethnic society and is also home to a diversity of wildlife in a variety of protected habitats.
+++++++++++++2018-05-22 8:57 GMT-04:00 மாயோன் <ts.m...@gmail.com>:
@செயபாரதன்,ஐயா,Ινδικά (Indika- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indica_(Ctesias) )என வருவது பற்றி, கிரேக்க இலக்கியத்தில் எல்லைகளுடன் இருக்கும் வரிகள் வேண்டும் ஐயா. பல அறிஞர்கள் சிந்து/இந்து நதி நாடு என்பது இன்றைய நாடு என கூறுகிறார்கள்; அதே கிரேக்க இலக்கியங்களில் வரும் பாண்டிய நாடு பற்றி கூறுவதில்லை.புளுட்டார்க்கு எழுதுவதற்கு முன்பே Ινδικά குறித்த குறிப்புகள் உள்ளன ஐயா, அவை குறித்து பார்க்கலாம்.@ செல்வன்/தென்குமரி வடபெருங்கல்
குணகுட கடலா வெல்லைத்
தோன்று மொழிந்து தொழில் கேட்ப”//
ஐயா, இது தமிழகத்தின் எல்லைகள்."தென்குமரி வடபெருங்கல்குணகுட கடலா வெல்லைத்தோன்று மொழிந்து தொழில் கேட்ப"தெற்கு-குமரி.வட(க்கு)-பெருங்கல்(வேங்கடம்).குணகுட(கிழக்கு மேற்கு)-கடல்.பெருங்கல் =இமயம் என்று எடுத்தால், கிழக்கு-மேற்கு என்பதற்கு கடல் எவ்வாறு எல்லைகள் ஆகும்?// "அடியில் தன்னள வரசர்க் குணர்த்தி
வடிவே லெறிந்த வான்பகை பொறாது
பஃறுளி யாற்றுடன் பன்மலை யடுக்கத்துக்
குமரிக் கோடுங் கொடுங்கடல் கொள்ள
வடதிசைக் கங்கையும் இமயமுங் கொண்டு
தென்றிசை யாண்ட தென்னவன் வாழி" //இது ""குமரியோடு வடவிமயத் தொருமொழிவைத் துலகாண்ட சேரலாதன்"" இந்த வரிகளுடன் ஒப்பிட்டு, தெற்கில் இருந்த மன்னன் ஆண்ட நிலத்தின் எல்லையை நமக்கு சொல்லும் வரிகள் என்றே நினைக்கிறேன்.// இந்தியா பற்றிக்குறிப்பிட்டவர்கள் பலர். //@ சேதுஅவர்கள் என்ன சொன்னார்கள் ஐயா?--2018-05-22 15:53 GMT+05:30 இசையினியன் <pitchaim...@gmail.com>:ஐயா ஜெய பாரதனுக்கு மீண்டும் அதே கேள்வியை இங்கு கேட்கிறேன்.
இந்தியா?
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வேந்தன் அரசு
May 22, 2018, 11:07:49 AM5/22/18
to vallamai, மின்தமிழ், தமிழ் மன்றம், vannan.1935, vaiyavan mspm, Aravindan Neelakandan, Oru Arizonan, கி.காளைராசன், Asan Buhari, Anna Kannan, Anne Josephine
இந்தியாவைப் பற்றித் தெரியாத பகுத்தறிவு வாதிகளுக்கு !!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India
The Indian subcontinent was home to the urban Indus Valley Civilisation of the 3rd millennium BCE—one of the world's earliest civilisations. In the following millennium, the oldest scriptures associated with Hinduism began to be composed. Large-scale urbanisation occurred on the Ganges in the first millennium BCE leading to the Mahajanapadas, and Buddhism and Jainism arose.
Early political consolidations took place under the Maurya, Satavahana and Gupta empires; the later peninsular Middle Kingdoms influenced cultures as far as Southeast Asia. In the medieval era, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Islam arrived, and Sikhism emerged, all adding to the region's diverse culture. Much of the north fell to the Delhi sultanate; the south was united under the Vijayanagara Empire.
தமிழ்நாட்டு மன்னர்களைப்பற்றி ஒன்னும் காணோம்.
S. Jayabarathan
May 22, 2018, 12:14:28 PM5/22/18
to vallamai, மின்தமிழ், தமிழ் மன்றம், vannan.1935, vaiyavan mspm, Aravindan Neelakandan, Oru Arizonan, கி.காளைராசன், Asan Buhari, Anna Kannan, Anne Josephine
5/22/2018 Jayasree Saranathan: Valmiki of Ramayana knew Tamil! (Spoken language of ancient India - part 1)
http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.ca/2013/03/valmiki-of-ramayana-knew-tamil-spoken.html 1/1
Disclaimer: I hereby declare that there is no chauvinistic intention of promoting Tamil, which happens to be my
mother tongue, in the series of articles beginning with the present one. The intention is to bring to the notice of
readers, the presence of Tamil alongside Sanskrit in the Indian Subcontinent for many thousands of years. A
deeper analysis might give us leads on why a fused Tamil and Sanskrit presence can be seen from India to
Ireland to Ice land and from Polynesia to the Incas. Foreword
The linguistic studies of the past two centuries had led us to believe that there existed a language division in
India as Dravidian and Indo European. But anyone with some knowledge of Tamil Sangam texts and an
exposure to Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata, would say that this is wrong. For many thousands of years
there existed only two languages in India, a human tongue, called as Manushya Bhasha in Valmiki Ramayana
and a divine tongue, the Deva bhasha. Though there is no doubt about what was known as Deva bhasha, not
much research was done on what was known as Manushya Bhasha. That Manushya Bhasha must have been a
language spoken in South India (because Hanuman knew that), in North India (because Sita knew that) and even
in Srilanka because that is where Hanuman and Sita spoke, part of which could have been overheard by the
guards of Sita.
My continuing association with the three (Olden Tamil texts, Ramayana of Valimki and Mahabharata) led me to
deduce that Tamil was spoken as the Manushya Bhasha throughout the length and breadth of the Indian sub
continent. While refined Tamil was spoken in core Tamil lands where the Sangam assemblies were held, a form
of proto Tamil (that existed before Tamil was refined with Grammar) continued to be present in the rest of India.
In course of time this proto Tamil fused with Sanskrit and gave rise to other languages of India. In this series, I
would be placing on record the proofs for all these. Let me begin with Valmiki. It is everybody's knowledge that
Valmiki wrote the Ramayana in Sanskrit. What many do not know is that Valmiki knew Tamil also and had
authored some Tamil works!
The present article brings them out. The original was written in Tamil in 2011. It can be read
here: http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2011/08/65.html (வாமகி,
தமி.)
My sincere thanks to Mr TG Saranathan (Former chief of Telecom, Tamilnadu Circle) for translating this article
from Tamil.
****
Tuesday, March 26, 2013
Valmiki of Ramayana knew Tamil! (Spoken language of ancient India - part 1)
Other articles in this series posted so far:
Disclaimer: I hereby declare that there is no chauvinistic intention of promoting Tamil, which happens to be my mother tongue, in the series of articles beginning with the present one. The intention is to bring to the notice of readers, the presence of Tamil alongside Sanskrit in the Indian Subcontinent for many thousands of years. A deeper analysis might give us leads on why a fused Tamil and Sanskrit presence can be seen from India to Ireland to Ice land and from Polynesia to the Incas.
Part -4:- Rama and Seetha spoke Tamil
Part -6:- Southern Madurai (தென் மதுரை) of 1st Tamil Sangam was submerged at the time of Rama’s exile.
Disclaimer: I hereby declare that there is no chauvinistic intention of promoting Tamil, which happens to be my mother tongue, in the series of articles beginning with the present one. The intention is to bring to the notice of readers, the presence of Tamil alongside Sanskrit in the Indian Subcontinent for many thousands of years. A deeper analysis might give us leads on why a fused Tamil and Sanskrit presence can be seen from India to Ireland to Ice land and from Polynesia to the Incas.
Foreword
The linguistic studies of the past two centuries had led us to believe that there existed a language division in India as Dravidian and Indo European. But anyone with some knowledge of Tamil Sangam texts and an exposure to Valmiki Ramayana and Mahabharata, would say that this is wrong. For many thousands of years there existed only two languages in India, a human tongue, called as Manushya Bhasha in Valmiki Ramayana and a divine tongue, the Deva bhasha. Though there is no doubt about what was known as Deva bhasha, not much research was done on what was known as Manushya Bhasha. That Manushya Bhasha must have been a language spoken in South India (because Hanuman knew that), in North India (because Sita knew that) and even in Srilanka because that is where Hanuman and Sita spoke, part of which could have been overheard by the guards of Sita.
My continuing association with the three (Olden Tamil texts, Ramayana of Valimki and Mahabharata) led me to deduce that Tamil was spoken as the Manushya Bhasha throughout the length and breadth of the Indian sub continent. While refined Tamil was spoken in core Tamil lands where the Sangam assemblies were held, a form of proto Tamil (that existed before Tamil was refined with Grammar) continued to be present in the rest of India. In course of time this proto Tamil fused with Sanskrit and gave rise to other languages of India. In this series, I would be placing on record the proofs for all these. Let me begin with Valmiki. It is everybody's knowledge that Valmiki wrote the Ramayana in Sanskrit. What many do not know is that Valmiki knew Tamil also and had authored some Tamil works!
The present article brings them out. The original was written in Tamil in 2011. It can be read here: http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2011/08/65.html (வால்மீகியும், தமிழும்.)
My sincere thanks to Mr TG Saranathan (Former chief of Telecom, Tamilnadu Circle) for translating this article from Tamil.
**********
VALMIKI AND TAMIL
Tolkappiyam [tolkAppiyam] is considered as the oldest Tamil grammar available in Tamil literature. It states that Tamil language was taught as three types: Primary, Intermediary and Secondary. In his interpreation, Naccinārkkiniyar, an early commentator for Tolkappiyam, says that the First category or the Primary education was the study of Tamil poetic works of Iraiyanar (Lord Shiva), Agastya, Markandeya, Valmiki, Gautama and the likes. This is a thought provoking statement.
("தமிழ்ச் செய்யுட் கண்ணும் இறையனாரும்,
அகத்தியனாரும்,
மார்க்கண்டேயனாரும்,
வான்மீகனாரும்,
கவுதமனாரும் போலார் செய்தன தலை".)
We know Valmiki as the famous Author of Srimad Ramayanam. But here, if we think that studying that epic Ramayanam of Valmiki, is the Primary learning, then it is not so! The words "Tamil poetic works of Valmiki" clearly indicate that Valmiki had composed poems in Tamil.
When we search for works of Valmiki in Tamil, we find that the 358th poem in Purananuru is by Valmiki [Factually it is mentioned as Vanmiki. But in Tamil letters 'l' and 'n' are interchangeable] . In writing the history of the poets of Purananuru,Dr.U.V.Swaminatha Iyer, considered as Grand father of Tamil, records that a Poet named Valmiki lived during the 1st Sangam period. But due to non-availability of supporting data, he concluded that this Valmiki and Ramayana Valmiki were different.
But the name Valmiki came into being due to a specific reason. Valmiki's original name was Ratnakar (Prachedas) Since because he was covered by an ant- hill from which he emerged, he gained the name Valmiki. Due to the specific causative nature of this name, it is not possible that two different persons could have got the name, Valmiki. One may say that there is a community in Andhra Pradesh, with Valmiki as family title. But this name was adopted only a few hundred years ago.
There is no indication of existence of two Valmikis, one in Sanskrit and another in Tamil literature. But the fact remains that the name Valmiki exists in Tamil works. Naccinārkkiniyar says that people studied the Tamil works of Valmiki.
Searching for the Tamil works of Valmiki, there is one in the Sangam literature ofPurananuru. There is another as a collection of Tamil poems attributed to Valmiki Siddhar, under the name Valmiki Sixteen (vAlmIkan padhinARu). Yet another composition bearing his name is Srimad Ramayanam is in Sanskrit.
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S. Jayabarathan
May 22, 2018, 1:09:03 PM5/22/18
to mintamil, vallamai, tamilmantram, vannan vannan, vaiyavan mspm, Aravindan Neelakandan, Oru Arizonan, Kalairajan Krishnan
On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 1:07 PM, S. Jayabarathan <jayaba...@gmail.com> wrote:
1960 ஆண்டுகளில் பெரியார் எல்லை குறிப்பிடாமல்தான் திராவிட நாடு பிரிவினை கோரினார்.2500 ஆண்டுகட்கு முன்னர் இந்தியாவுக்கு வரைப்பட எல்லை அளந்தறியும் வல்லுநர் இல்லை.சி. ஜெ.On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 12:38 PM, மாயோன் <ts.m...@gmail.com> wrote:ஐயா, விக்கியில் பழங்கால இந்தியா என்பதின் எல்லைகள் இல்லை.ஆங்கிலேயர் உருவாக்கி ய இந்தியாவின் எல்லைகள் குறித்த கேட்கவில்லை.
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