Pieter new approach to the miracle worker entering conflict.
ellie
errors but this is what I found ...
"C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
their own illusions.***"
We are asked to be saviors to our brothers. Yet how can we without
seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
there full import, yet not accepting them as true. Jesus, as the
story goes, was in the midst of conflict. You could say he entered
conflict ... particularly in the full participation of his death. So
how can the miracle worker help to save his brother from his
illusions, from his nightmares, from the darkness that he thinks he
sees ... without willingness to join him there to lead him out ... by
knowing full well those illusions (conflicts) are not real?
Is this more clear as to what I was pointing to when I said the
miracle worker goes where others fear to tread?
Carrie
"ellie" <miracl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e1c0edc-1213-4fea...@c19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> There been talk about not seeing your brothers errors or ignoring his
> errors but this is what I found ...
You wouldn't have to ignore errors if you didn't first see them.
And, I've always thought about the idea of joining someone in the
illusion of something, just for the joining, without actually joining them
(in mind)
If that makes sense (LOL)
Like one time someone was very mad and I happened to be in the way, so he
started yelling at me. For some reason (maybe because I knew I wasn't really
involved in it) I felt myself detach from it. I just stood there and wasn't
at all effected by it. After a few seconds, the person stopped yelling and
seemed to calm down, and peace was restored.
If I had gotten involved in ego, or even thinking I WASN'T (involved)from
ego, but tried to talk to him, change his mind, point out what I thought had
happened, etc. it would have just made it worse. The person wouldn't have
felt "joined".
And, overall, it was this, the joining, regardless of what it seemed to
be about, the words, the issues, who was right or wrong, etc that seemed to
heal the situation. Turned it into a Holy Encounter of sorts.
Most of the time I don't remember this, and don't get into that state of
mind, but it was a learning experience at the time. With possibilities.
In a way I "joined" with the person who was angry, but not in an ego way.
I'm not sure if this relates to your discussion and quotes (and Pieter)
but I thought of it.
deb
Great pointing, I love the wording became identified with Christ.
ellie
What I'm trying to address is the mindset that says ... there is
conflict so the good Course practitioner does not go there. I say
that is precisely where the practitioner or miracle worker is needed.
Jesus always placed himself in the midst of conflict, yet he never
lost sight of what was true.
deb
Yes, that's what I got from your pointing.
ellie
Off to work. See you tonight. :) Say hey to Mikey.
One Truth
Now who is saying that?
What people have been saying for years is the obvious.
Something is badly wrong when people who consider themselves course
students, miracle worker or TOGs get together and are at each others
throat for over ten years.
What can be more obvious than the spiritual status of your spiritual
ego is more important than peace or miracles. If that wasn't true you
wouldn't conveniently be surrounding yourself with and encouraging
attack dogs for Ellen.
When you have to debate and posture, lie and equivocate whether you or
Ryder or Ted of Debs attack, you can bet any freakn' notion of a
miracle or miracles working is at least a 100 intellectual light years
away.
deb
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>
> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >"C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
> >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
> >became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
> >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
> >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
> >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
> >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
> >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
> >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
> >their own illusions.***"
>
> Jesus's own. Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
> else, ellen. It takes my breath away. The author is talking about
> his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
>
> Deborah (BC)
Do you think it is different for Jesus than yourself?
Pieter
"ellie" <miracl...@gmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:8e1c0edc-1213-4fea...@c19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Any passage of the Course must be seen
in the context of the whole, since the Course
"has nothing in it that is not consistent." (T-20.VII.1:3)
It is important to be vigilant against selective reading.
Very early in the (UR)text is said:
"Having been restored to your original state, you naturally become
part of the Atonement yourself. You know share MY inability to
tolerate the lack of love in yourself & in everyone else, and MUST
join the Great Crusade to correct it. The slogan for this Crusade is
"Listen, Learn, and Do." This means Listen to My Voice, Learn to
undo the error, and DO something to correct it. The first two are
not enough. The real members of MY party are active workers."
One could easily misunderstand what exactly is meant
here, if the following, a bit later in the text, is not taken
into consideration as well:
"The distinction has also been made here between "miracle-mindedness"
as a STATE, and "miracle-doing" as its expression. The former needs
YOUR careful protection, because it is a state of miracle-READINESS.
This is what the Bible means in the many references to "Hold yourself ready"
and other similar injunctions. Readiness here means keep your perception
right side up, (or valid), so you will ALWAYS be ready, willing, and able.
These are the essentials for "listen, learn, and do." You must be READY
to listen, WILLING to learn and ABLE to do. Only the last is involuntary,
because it is the APPLICATION of miracles which must be Christcontrolled.
But the other two, which are the voluntary aspects of miracle-mindedness,
ARE up to you."
In P-3.I, "The Practice of Psychotherapy":
"1. Everyone who is sent to you is a patient of yours. This does not mean
that
you select him, nor that you choose the kind of treatment that is suitable.
But
it does mean that no one comes to you by mistake. There are no errors in
God's plan. It would be an error, however, to assume that you know what to
offer everyone who comes. This is not up to you to decide.
2. Who, then, decides what each brother needs? Surely not you, who do not
yet recognize who he is who asks. There is Something in him that will tell
you,
if you listen. And that is the answer; listen. Do not demand, do not decide,
do
not sacrifice. Listen. What you hear is true. Would God send His Son to you
and not be sure you recognize his needs? Think what God is telling you; He
needs your voice to speak for Him. Could anything be holier? Or a greater
gift
to you? Would you rather choose who would be god, or hear the Voice of Him
Who is God in you?"
Pieter
"Carrie" <starch...@charter.net> schreef in bericht
news:xiP_l.33235$QS....@newsfe18.iad...
Great story;
This is how it works!
Ted
"One Truth" <qqj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:525620e0-aa09-498f...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
------------------
Did your big brain come up with this John?
It is your certainty that obscures your vision of what is. Your judgments of
your brother and their motives is just more story with no validity in truth.
Someday I hope you will get to see that for yourself as all your stories
fall away. Then you can write something from your experience and not just
you ego.
JRad
> "One Truth" <qqjo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
ted,
Mind if I jump in ?
Do you think it might help to support and prove it is to present
something to challenge the content and not the messenger?. It's
looking and sounding like you have not offered any intelligent
knowledgable alternative except talked down to the person. That
doesn't say whether you actually learned anything to know as an
outcome of your so called experience.
And therefore unless you do "give" something rather than just belly
ache about something else which is actually nothing, it is perfectly
reasonable for people like me to question whethere or not you just
might be talking through your hat about the value of your experience.
By belly aching you are suggesting you are vulnerable in some way.
Which in turn suggests you really don't know anything more than the
average joe on the street.
In a university environment you wouldn't get very far with your
ariticulation. It doesn't address anything meaningful and in fact
talks about nothing (nothing defined in the ACIM perspective as not
real).
I ask if you might reconsider and "give" something It looks like what
you are attempting to do is "take away" without offering any
"replacement".
What's your reaction to that ?
thanks
JR
.
Carrie
"Pieter" <hrdo...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4a3be736$0$12118$bf49...@news.tele2.nl...
I know, time is illusion, but I sometimes think about it, and wonder why
I don't/can't think about it more often.
It also proved (to me) the idea "all that I give is given to myself"
because I was the one who felt wonderful (for lack of a better word) because
of it.
I've written about this before, the idea we can join in anything, even
if it might be labeled and judged as "anger" or something not usually seen
as positive and good. Without engaging ego in it, it isn't anything. Not
good OR bad. Just joining.
deb
> "ellie" <miraclelur...@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:8e1c0edc-1213-4fea...@c19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Pieter, the statement "My inability to tolerate the lack of love in
yourself & in everyone else, and MUST join the Great Crusade to
correct it" - what does this say to you?
MikeRyder
Yes. And the problem so many 'miracle workers' have is their denial
and subsequent disconnection the problems, as in the example of george
who tries to deny that he sees no conflict when in fact he does.
MikeRyder
MikeRyder
wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
><miracl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
>>the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
>>became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
>>God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
>>walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
>>Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
>>illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
>>Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
>>Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
>>their own illusions.***"
>
>This paragraph doesn't say anything about anybody's illusions but
>Jesus's own. Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
>else, ellen. It takes my breath away. The author is talking about
>his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
...so you like to believe because that justifies your continuing to
run around in egotistical circles.
Open your mind to Revelation of God. And dont claim you have because
you havent. When you do you will see *everything* differently.
>
>Deborah (BC)
Ted
"JRad" <jrad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9416bfd-fb52-442d...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
ted,
thanks
JR
=============
OK JR, what makes you think that If I tell you the same things I have been
saying to you and others here for over a week that you will understand it
any better this time around. When you have a revelatory experience you will
know exactly what I mean, but not before that. It is something the ego can
not get. Deb's analogy of the "orgasm" was as good an explanation as any. I
do have a hint for you. When you can't seem to get this stuff with your head
you would be better served to just sit in the unknowing instead of letting
your ego run free with it's questions. You ego will always place filters
that prevent your seeing.
Do you think God gives a shit about a university environment?
Yammer on if you wish but don't expect me to waste my time restating all the
thing your ego has rejected.
Ted
.
Pieter
"deb" <dwa...@tx.rr.com> schreef in bericht
news:21a778b1-2fdc-4165...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
-.-.-. That I now share Jesus, and listen to
what he means with his words.
Lee
Open your heart to the Soul whose first glimpse is
Revelation, and you won't have to relish ego-romps
and trolling for attention, Mike.
~ Lee
>
>>
>> Deborah (BC)
george
This speaks so well of it, "We are asked to be saviors to our
brothers. Yet how can we without
seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
there full import, yet not accepting them as true.
My insane ego does see conflict and all the other "bad things of this
world" I have learned it's insane and do not listen to it because I
have found there is ALWAYS another way to look at the world. To choose
to see evil or bad is to make it real for me. Evil and bad thing HAVE
to be fought against transferring the evil into me as conflict is a
trait of evil.
Yet to decide evil and bad things don't exist at all but are only a
figment of my imagination shines them away and no fight is ever
involved. Just the loving recognition that the truth is true.
I choose to ACCEPT what is true not what is false. Both ways of
looking at the world are always available. One that see's evil and
reason's for conflict and one that sees only reasons for joining and
love. It's my life and my choice on how I want to see the world. One
way leads to peace and love and one way leads to hate and conflict.
One choice is insane while the other is sane.
ellie
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>
> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
> >became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
> >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
> >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
> >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
> >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
> >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
> >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
> >their own illusions.***"
>
> Jesus's own. Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
> else, ellen. It takes my breath away. The author is talking about
> his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
>
We are asked to do as Jesus did. We are asked to be the Christ. we
are the Christ. If you think this is talking to anyone but you ... if
you think this is about *another* you are mistaken. You/all of us,
the one mind wrote the Course. There is no one or nothing outside the
One.
ellie
Everyone has freedom of expression in *my world*, John. You can make
whatever story you want around that fact.
ellie
> "ellie" <miraclelur...@gmail.com> schreef in berichtnews:8e1c0edc-1213-4fea...@c19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Sure. This only supports what I am saying.
ellie
There will come a time when you will look upon what most would label
"evil" or "bad" and you will see how it is in it's full import to the
minds that call it evil or bad. And you will have true empathy for
what they see and know how it makes them feel .... and you will love
them all the more for it. As you will remember when you were where
they are in that moment. And your love and compassion will shine. It
will radiate throughout the sonship. And the reason you will be of
such great help is because you know full well their fear. Yet you
know it is not true. You have offered the way out tho they may not
even see it yet. THAT! is the denying the denial of Truth.
JRad
> "JRad" <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
What does the author say about how many times one should respond to a
brother who asks .... seventy times seventy ????
Why do you question my sincerity ?
Is that what the peace of God entails, such doubt of a brother ?
> When you have a revelatory experience you will
> know exactly what I mean, but not before that. It is something the ego can
> not get. Deb's analogy of the "orgasm" was as good an explanation as any.
EXCEPT , except, except ... and I deliberately did not respond with it
at the time but I certainly immediately thought it ... and that is ..
anybody can FAKE an orgasm. I'm a guy , and even I've done it !!!!
So the analogy has plenty of holes in it and that's not the only
one , but I didn't want to expose them at the time they were said. I
felt it was unnecessary.
And besides, I am not asking you or anyone to explain something which
is unexplainable.
And what makes you "think" I have not already experienced being close
to God and having been exposed to "what it might be like to be as God"
in the ability to create? And, a 3rd experience of oneness ? Why
are you so "sure" about it when it comes to me ?
> I
> do have a hint for you. When you can't seem to get this stuff with your head
> you would be better served to just sit in the unknowing instead of letting
> your ego run free with it's questions. You ego will always place filters
> that prevent your seeing.
I agree with that. What makes you "think" that is what is going on
now ? If you are here on and in the ng , why then ? Why are you not
doing as you say, and just sitting in the unknowing ?
I will tell you now. I will reveal it to you. God did reveal himself
to me, and when I asked God what He wanted of me, he told me ....Be
Still.
> Do you think God gives a shit about a university environment?
The fact he sent his son to teach tells me god is concerned about
something, yes ..absolutely and no question about it. In fact,
Jesus's opening salvo is ... it is a required course. So university
is a fair and appropriate metaphor. And you are playing hissy fit
that I used it. Why is that ? Did you fail in university or
something? If so, don't blame it on me. God cannot give a shit
about anything. Do you not know that by your revelation ?
> Yammer on if you wish but don't expect me to waste my time restating all the
> thing your ego has rejected.
I am not my ego. Why does your experience of revelation lead you to
conclude I am ?. Therfore if I am NOT ego , and if I am a student of
acim, I KNOW God is, and KNOW the author writes or revelation so it
MUST be real.
So, if your conclusion is that my ego has rejected the idea of God OR
of revelation I tell you frankly you are wrong.
So the question then becomes ... why are you "thinking" I reject the
idea of God and the idea of the truth of revelation ?
If that is the conclusion you arrive at, it genuinely contradicts what
revelation IS as explained by the author. What I am saying and I wish
to be direct to you about it is this, you are not demonstrating
anything other than ego with your false assertions which can only be
illusion. And Ted, where does illusion come from? From God ?
You are NOT demonstrating the peace of God, are you ? Therefore, how
do you EXPECT me to believe you about it ? In my shoes, what would
YOU do ?
If you really had experience of God you would be very willing to
provide as much patience as I ask for and what you are giving me is
your impatience and your "thought" that I am the one who is rejecting
something. Ted, sorry fella, but you sound like the one who is
rejecting something here. All you have to do is read what is
occurring here in this thread to see it.
Could it be my questions disturb you ? Is that it ?
Not good Ted. Not good at all. Sounds like complete, utter and
nothing else but ... ego. Far removed from any possible peace of God.
I hope you will reconsider and give me some benefit of the doubt and
see what I am really asking and not what you "imagine" it to be.
> Ted
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
JR
ellie
Do you think Jesus didn't see reasons for conflict as his his brothers
saw them?
ellie
deb
it.
> JR- Hide quoted text -
Ted
JR
YAWN!!!!
george
Sweet it's all about me!
george
He held the truth.And chose the peaceful loving perception instead of
the conflicted one. The peaceful loving perception heals while the
conflicted hateful one hurts.
JRad
ellie
right. And your brother is you. There is but One Son.
deb
> "deb" <dwal...@tx.rr.com> schreef in berichtnews:21a778b1-2fdc-4165...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
**I'd say what you posted was saying the same thing. It was more
familar to me when I looked it up in the Blue, but that is the only
one I have read. Do you see your experience any different that Jesus'
experience. I realize that there are many stories around his life but
I don't see how his realization of Christ as any different than our
own. What he walked we would too. I also didn't have the religious
background to bring with me in studying the Course.
ellie
Of course he held the truth. But that does not mean he stayed away
from conflict while he held the truth. He might have avoided
crucification had he avoided conflict. But he knew the conflict was
not real and so he went where most men fear to tread.
JRad
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ellie,
When you experienced the mystery and truth of the One, was it a
distinct One or was it more like Oneness. In other words, were you
aware of the consciousness of you and your self being the One or being
with One as one and yet still Ellie.? Was there any sense at all of
"individualized" aspect of One ? And, did you have any sense of
recollection and recognition ?
The nearest I can get is the idea of trinity but expanded to include
all souls ever created. And yet, I could fully appreciate the idea
that once whatever the job is to do, there is no need for HS and
possibly even Jesus who's spirit might have been created to bring the
awareness of God's will to mankind. And to help awaken the sleeping
children.
What does the idea of sleeping children conjure for you ? (as a
consequence of your experience, or out of it ?).
Thanks
jr
JRad
>
> - Show quoted text -
thank you for focus on that.
jr
george
Since it wasn't real there was no conflict. He didn't die, he lives.
To me it's like a video game. Is there real conflict in a first person
shooter game or is it all just for fun and means nothing?
JRad
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
are you sure ?
jr
JRad
> "JRad" <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I hope you will reconsider and give me some benefit of the doubt and
> see what I am really asking and not what you "imagine" it to be.
>
> > Ted
> > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> JR
>
> YAWN!!!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
ok, well that's helpful.
And , far removed from what the truth is all about. Oh well.
thanks.
jr
ellie
In Truth everything of this world means nothing. It's all an
illusion.
But is the miracle worker in Darfur just having fun and playing a
game?
george
If he was completely sane yes...the form of the illusion makes no
difference. One might look worse to the ego but it's all nonsense and
means nothing except what I want.
ellie
There was no trinity just One.
When I came back into a body (only way I can describe it tho that's
not really accurate) I was shocked at the body I found myself in; as
it could have been any body and it could have been any time. It
didn't matter. They are all the same One.
The other thing that first impressed me afterwards was how much more
real it was. How much more alive. Being in a body was definitely a
grater reality and it was very clear that this is but a dream state.
Also, being in that state was very familiar but just forgotten. And
as a baby that is where i hung out all the time. It took time within
a body to lose the memory of that state of being.
> What does the idea of sleeping children conjure for you ? (as a
> consequence of your experience, or out of it ?).
The most important section of the Course for me and the one that
resonated the deepest is "The Way to Remember God". It spoke to me as
the sleeping child and it gave very clear instruction as to the depth
of commitment and vigilance expected if one wants to awaken. It's all
about self-inquiry.
ellie
Jesus wept. Once you get past it being all about you, you will see
this. Compassion isn't about seeing the suffering of your brothers as
being nothing more than fun and games. It is seeing it all in it's
full import and knowing it is not real. It is not about
disassociation.
george
Healing is done by holding the truth that everything means nothing
except what I want. Hurt is done by accepting the evil of anyone
else's situation. It hurts others and myself.
So in truth a miracle worker in Dufur has no choice except to look for
the silver lining. To see and hold onto the horror of the situation
the ego sees would make them part of the problem instead of the
solution.
This is like Jesus situation on the cross. Was it a disaster of evil
killing God's son or the biggest blessing the world has ever know?
Either is a choice of what I WANT. Neither is fact but only a choice.
ellie
No one is asking you to accept the evil, george. Is that what you are
hearing me saying?
> So in truth a miracle worker in Dufur has no choice except to look for
> the silver lining. To see and hold onto the horror of the situation
> the ego sees would make them part of the problem instead of the
> solution.
Looking for the silver lining is living in fantasyland, fmp. Jesus
asks us to look and recognize the full import of how it is seen and
experienced by our sleeping brothers. Looking past to what is real
does not mean we don't recognize that it is very frightening and
painful to our brothers. How can we have compassion if we don't
recognize their suffering. Don't you think Jesus recognizes our
suffering?
> This is like Jesus situation on the cross. Was it a disaster of evil
> killing God's son or the biggest blessing the world has ever know?
> Either is a choice of what I WANT. Neither is fact but only a choice.
Yes but nowhere did Jesus see the situation as fun and games.
Ted
thanks.
jr
---------------
Don't believe the things I've been telling you JR, check it out for
yourself.
It is that ten squirrels in a small birdcage mind of yours that gets in your
way.
JRad
> "JRad" <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:2168991f-8822-459e...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 9:21 pm, "Ted" <octagonf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "JRad" <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > I hope you will reconsider and give me some benefit of the doubt and
> > see what I am really asking and not what you "imagine" it to be.
>
> > > Ted
> > > .- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > JR
>
> > YAWN!!!!- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ok, well that's helpful.
>
> And , far removed from what the truth is all about. Oh well.
>
> thanks.
>
> jr
>
> ---------------
> Don't believe the things I've been telling you JR, check it out for
> yourself.
>
> It is that ten squirrels in a small birdcage mind of yours that gets in your
> way.
I don't know WHAT you've been telling me. And maybe that's the
problem Telling doesn't always work. Conversing often is more
effective. Telling is one way.
Anyway, ok Ted, sounds like you have your guard up. That's
understandable.
Ciao .....
JR
One Truth
> "One Truth" <qqjo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:525620e0-aa09-498f...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 12:05 pm, ellie <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > > On Jun 19, 11:31 am, ellie <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > There been talk about not seeing your brothers errors or ignoring his
> > > > errors but this is what I found ...
>
> > > > "C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
> > > > the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
> > > > became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
> > > > God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
> > > > walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
> > > > Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
> > > > illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
> > > > Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
> > > > Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
> > > > their own illusions.***"
>
> > > > We are asked to be saviors to our brothers. Yet how can we without
> > > > seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
> > > > there full import, yet not accepting them as true. Jesus, as the
> > > > story goes, was in the midst of conflict. You could say he entered
> > > > conflict ... particularly in the full participation of his death. So
> > > > how can the miracle worker help to save his brother from his
> > > > illusions, from his nightmares, from the darkness that he thinks he
> > > > sees ... without willingness to join him there to lead him out ... by
> > > > knowing full well those illusions (conflicts) are not real?
>
> > > > Is this more clear as to what I was pointing to when I said the
> > > > miracle worker goes where others fear to tread?
>
>
> > What I'm trying to address is the mindset that says ... there is
> > conflict so the good Course practitioner does not go there.
>
> Now who is saying that?
>
> What people have been saying for years is the obvious.
>
> Something is badly wrong when people who consider themselves course
> students, miracle worker or TOGs get together and are at each others
> throat for over ten years.
>
> What can be more obvious than the spiritual status of your spiritual
> ego is more important than peace or miracles. If that wasn't true you
> wouldn't conveniently be surrounding yourself with and encouraging
> attack dogs for Ellen.
>
> When you have to debate and posture, lie and equivocate whether you or
> Ryder or Ted of Debs attack, you can bet any freakn' notion of a
> miracle or miracles working is at least a 100 intellectual light years
> away.
>
> ------------------
>
> Did your big brain come up with this John?
>
> It is your certainty that obscures your vision of what is. Your judgments of
> your brother and their motives is just more story with no validity in truth.
> Someday I hope you will get to see that for yourself as all your stories
> fall away. Then you can write something from your experience and not just
> you ego.
"Stories . . ." Cult jargon for any narrative not support by the cult.
Lol. Ted, you cult asshole, did it ever occur to your that you
shouldn't posture like you can actually argue for what you believe,
when your only message is I believe, what I believe, what someone once
told me.
.
One Truth
> In a university environment you wouldn't get very far with your
> ariticulation.
He and Ellen, Debs and Ryder would get their head handed to them quick
at any university. Cult -think only seems to work in a very
circumscribed, "us against them environment."
Polarization is a powerful magic spell.
george
It's all fantasyland that's the point. The horror is only there IF I
chose to follow my ego's perception that it IS horrible INSTEAD of the
Holy Spirit's perception that something good comes from everything.
Jesus
> asks us to look and recognize the full import of how it is seen and
> experienced by our sleeping brothers. Looking past to what is real
> does not mean we don't recognize that it is very frightening and
> painful to our brothers. How can we have compassion if we don't
> recognize their suffering. Don't you think Jesus recognizes our
> suffering?
Yes and only to tell me this need not be. He tells me to lose my
insanity and see the good that is in everything.
>
> > This is like Jesus situation on the cross. Was it a disaster of evil
> > killing God's son or the biggest blessing the world has ever know?
> > Either is a choice of what I WANT. Neither is fact but only a choice.
>
> Yes but nowhere did Jesus see the situation as fun and games.
But does he now that he's not in this world?
One Truth
> "JRad" <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> On Jun 19, 3:33 pm, "Ted" <octagonf...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "One Truth" <qqjo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:525620e0-aa09-498f...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jun 19, 12:05 pm, ellie <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 19, 9:56 am, deb <dwal...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > What I'm trying to address is the mindset that says ... there is
> > > conflict so the good Course practitioner does not go there.
>
> > Now who is saying that?
>
> > What people have been saying for years is the obvious.
>
> > Something is badly wrong when people who consider themselves course
> > students, miracle worker or TOGs get together and are at each others
> > throat for over ten years.
>
> > What can be more obvious than the spiritual status of your spiritual
> > ego is more important than peace or miracles. If that wasn't true you
> > wouldn't conveniently be surrounding yourself with and encouraging
> > attack dogs for Ellen.
>
> > When you have to debate and posture, lie and equivocate whether you or
> > Ryder or Ted of Debs attack, you can bet any freakn' notion of a
> > miracle or miracles working is at least a 100 intellectual light years
> > away.
>
> > ------------------
>
> > Did your big brain come up with this John?
>
> > It is your certainty that obscures your vision of what is. Your judgments
> > of
> > your brother and their motives is just more story with no validity in
> > truth.
> > Someday I hope you will get to see that for yourself as all your stories
> > fall away. Then you can write something from your experience and not just
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Mind if I jump in ?
>
> Do you think it might help to support and prove it is to present
> something to challenge the content and not the messenger?. It's
> looking and sounding like you have not offered any intelligent
> knowledgable alternative except talked down to the person. That
> doesn't say whether you actually learned anything to know as an
> outcome of your so called experience.
>
> And therefore unless you do "give" something rather than just belly
> ache about something else which is actually nothing, it is perfectly
> reasonable for people like me to question whethere or not you just
> might be talking through your hat about the value of your experience.
> By belly aching you are suggesting you are vulnerable in some way.
> Which in turn suggests you really don't know anything more than the
> average joe on the street.
>
> talks about nothing (nothing defined in the ACIM perspective as not
> real).
>
> I ask if you might reconsider and "give" something It looks like what
> you are attempting to do is "take away" without offering any
> "replacement".
>
> What's your reaction to that ?
>
> thanks
>
> JR
>
> =============
>
> OK JR, what makes you think that If I tell you the same things I have been
> saying to you and others here for over a week that you will understand it
> know exactly what I mean, but not before that.
Revelation is cult-speak for secret gnosis.
In other word, "I have it, and you can't have unless I validate it,
and you sure an hell can't invalidate that I have gnosis."
What is this but a claim of spiritual elitism and both barely
disguised claims of spiritual superiority and a stealth assumption
that the one claiming an alleged experience is teacher and you are
student?
More cult bullshit, from totally disgraced and invalidated people who
wish to perpetuated obvious spiritual mistakes at the expense of the
gullible.
ellie
> On Jun 19, 7:43 pm, ellie <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's all fantasyland that's the point. The horror is only there IF I
> chose to follow my ego's perception that it IS horrible INSTEAD of the
> Holy Spirit's perception that something good comes from everything.
What if it is seen with compassion rather than labeling it as horror?
> Jesus
>
> > asks us to look and recognize the full import of how it is seen and
> > experienced by our sleeping brothers. Looking past to what is real
> > does not mean we don't recognize that it is very frightening and
> > painful to our brothers. How can we have compassion if we don't
> > recognize their suffering. Don't you think Jesus recognizes our
> > suffering?
>
> Yes and only to tell me this need not be. He tells me to lose my
> insanity and see the good that is in everything.
He asks you to see the call for help/love. not find the good in your
brothers suffering.
> > > This is like Jesus situation on the cross. Was it a disaster of evil
> > > killing God's son or the biggest blessing the world has ever know?
> > > Either is a choice of what I WANT. Neither is fact but only a choice.
>
> > Yes but nowhere did Jesus see the situation as fun and games.
>
> But does he now that he's not in this world?
No.
One Truth
> On Jun 19, 7:56 pm, JRad <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > brother who asks .... seventy times seventy ????
>
> > Why do you question my sincerity ?
>
> > Is that what the peace of God entails, such doubt of a brother ?
>
> > see what I am really asking and not what you "imagine" it to be.
>
> > > Ted
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
Debs, less face it. You think cult-think is impressive because you
have no clue how to think, and hardly value thinking.
george
> On Jun 19, 8:18 pm, george <georgeculol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 19, 7:43 pm, ellie <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It's all fantasyland that's the point. The horror is only there IF I
> > chose to follow my ego's perception that it IS horrible INSTEAD of the
> > Holy Spirit's perception that something good comes from everything.
>
> What if it is seen with compassion rather than labeling it as horror?
There is no NEED for compassion IF only the good is focused on. There
is need only for joining in the blessing.
Compassion as I think you mean it. Means something went wrong and it
should have been different and there would be a joining in the
suffering of what was "Wrong"..yes?
To get to the truth and to help truly, the focus must be on the
good..the blessing that is always available.
>
> > Jesus
>
> > > asks us to look and recognize the full import of how it is seen and
> > > experienced by our sleeping brothers. Looking past to what is real
> > > does not mean we don't recognize that it is very frightening and
> > > painful to our brothers. How can we have compassion if we don't
> > > recognize their suffering. Don't you think Jesus recognizes our
> > > suffering?
>
> > Yes and only to tell me this need not be. He tells me to lose my
> > insanity and see the good that is in everything.
>
> He asks you to see the call for help/love. not find the good in your
> brothers suffering.
It a call for help to see there is no reason TO suffer. It's not about
finding good in suffering it's about understanding there is never a
REASON to suffer.
george
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:18:31 -0700 (PDT), george
>
> <georgeculol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >This speaks so well of it, "We are asked to be saviors to our
> >brothers. Yet how can we without
> >seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
> >there full import, yet not accepting them as true.
>
> course quote, would you mind providing a citation for it? Thanks.
>
> Deborah (BC)
I quoted the person that wrote to me
ellie
Of course there is never a reason to suffer. But that's a far cry
from seeing all the suffering in the world as just fun and games.
george
opps it was the first post,
"C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
their own illusions.***"
We are asked to be saviors to our brothers. Yet how can we without
seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
One Truth
Lol. If a cult asshole like you Ted, thought God gave a shit about
anything you might have some elementary notion of right thought and
right action.
But of course, in the rush to End the Search, smoke dope, have fun and
make money from teaching the McDonald's version of Advaia, most of
Traditional Advatia teachings was trash for the expediency of the
moment.
george
Is it? Nothing here means anything so why not have fun with all of it
and see the blessings everywhere?
ellie
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>
>
>
> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jun 19, 11:15 am, Deborah <deborah@.daddydayo.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>
> >> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
> >> >became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
> >> >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
> >> >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
> >> >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
> >> >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
> >> >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
> >> >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
> >> >their own illusions.***"
>
> >> Jesus's own. Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
> >> else, ellen. It takes my breath away. The author is talking about
> >> his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
>
> >> Deborah (BC)
>
> >We are asked to do as Jesus did. We are asked to be the Christ. we
> >are the Christ. If you think this is talking to anyone but you ... if
> >you think this is about *another* you are mistaken. You/all of us,
> >the one mind wrote the Course. There is no one or nothing outside the
> >One.
>
> is talking about his *own* illusory self - Jesus, the man who walked
> the earth. And that's the only illusory self we are asked to concern
> ourselves with - our own. Beyond that we are asked to see the "face
> of Christ" in all our brothers so we may see the Christ in ourselves.
>
> I don't notice you doing that at all. You're to budy with a job that
> isn't yours to do.
>
> Deborah (BC)
So since we only need concern ourselves with our own illusory self ...
then Jesus talking about his illusory self only applies to him?
*warning* I reached my posting limit for the day and had to change my
email address.
ellie
Of course have fun. But do not avoid looking at anything in the world
of form and recognizing its full import to the sleeping son.
Ted
"One Truth" <qqj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:86eb2aa8-4033-4818...@t10g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
-------------
Does your big brain cause you to make ignorant statements like this all the
time John?
One Truth
> whatever story you want around that fact.
Well geez, Ellen. You can make up whatever story you want around your
alleged and very obviously phony revelation.
I've been around course group for twenty years and have Never seen
someone make an issue of persona; revelation. This is an Ellen/Wayne
corruption of course teachings.
Ted
Ciao .....
JR
-------------
Well JR, if you stopped following the chatter in your mind and just sit with
what I have told you you might start to see what I've been talking about.
You reactivity is closing your ears and your mind.
Carry on JR
One Truth
Sure. Its most certainly about aspects of the intellect like
consistency.
People hardly miss you are an unrepentant liar on a personal power
trip.
Ted
----------------
So you say with your big brain mr lost in your ego.
ellie
Do you think it makes any difference if you see my revelatory
experience as phony? Who is it that cares?
One Truth
> On Jun 19, 5:18 pm, george <georgeculol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > > On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>
> > > <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >There been talk about not seeing your brothers errors or ignoring his
> > > >errors but this is what I found ...
>
> > > >"C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
> > > >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
> > > >became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
> > > >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
> > > >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
> > > >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
> > > >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
> > > >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
> > > >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
> > > >their own illusions.***"
>
> > > >We are asked to be saviors to our brothers. Yet how can we without
> > > >seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
> > > >there full import, yet not accepting them as true. Jesus, as the
> > > >story goes, was in the midst of conflict. You could say he entered
> > > >conflict ... particularly in the full participation of his death. So
> > > >how can the miracle worker help to save his brother from his
> > > >illusions, from his nightmares, from the darkness that he thinks he
> > > >sees ... without willingness to join him there to lead him out ... by
> > > >knowing full well those illusions (conflicts) are not real?
>
> > > >Is this more clear as to what I was pointing to when I said the
> > > >miracle worker goes where others fear to tread?
>
> > > and subsequent disconnection the problems, as in the example of george
> > > who tries to deny that he sees no conflict when in fact he does.
>
> > brothers. Yet how can we without
> > seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
> > there full import, yet not accepting them as true.
>
> > world" I have learned it's insane and do not listen to it because I
> > have found there is ALWAYS another way to look at the world. To choose
> > to see evil or bad is to make it real for me.
>
> "evil" or "bad" and you will see how it is in it's full import to the
> minds that call it evil or bad.
Why not give a specific example, Ellen? Or you too fucking dumb to do
anything but speak in highly abstract cult-speak which can mean
anything or its opposite as a tool to manipulate?
One has to wonder about high school level intellects who wish to
philosophize about the relativity of good and evil, before they have
demonstrated any commitment to right thought and right action.
Ted
-----------------
Hey John, you're always talking about your superior education and
intelligence. How about posting your Vita here for all of us to Judge.
You haven't really got it yet that academic snobbery has nothing to do with
truth. It is a good smokescreen however for playing your ego games.
If you see polarization, then it all comes from you.
Ted
------------
Pretty weak John boy, is that the best your big brain can come up with?
.
MikeRyder
wrote:
>
>"JRad" <jrad...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:f9416bfd-fb52-442d...@e24g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
>> you ego.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>ted,
>
>Mind if I jump in ?
>
>Do you think it might help to support and prove it is to present
>something to challenge the content and not the messenger?. It's
>looking and sounding like you have not offered any intelligent
>knowledgable alternative except talked down to the person. That
>doesn't say whether you actually learned anything to know as an
>outcome of your so called experience.
>
>And therefore unless you do "give" something rather than just belly
>ache about something else which is actually nothing, it is perfectly
>reasonable for people like me to question whethere or not you just
>might be talking through your hat about the value of your experience.
>By belly aching you are suggesting you are vulnerable in some way.
>Which in turn suggests you really don't know anything more than the
>average joe on the street.
>
>In a university environment you wouldn't get very far with your
>ariticulation. It doesn't address anything meaningful and in fact
>talks about nothing (nothing defined in the ACIM perspective as not
>real).
>
>I ask if you might reconsider and "give" something It looks like what
>you are attempting to do is "take away" without offering any
>"replacement".
>
>What's your reaction to that ?
>
>thanks
>
>JR
>
>=============
>
>OK JR, what makes you think that If I tell you the same things I have been
>saying to you and others here for over a week that you will understand it
>any better this time around.
See, here's the point, Ted. rat-boy, john lopez and even old debroah
do understand in their own limited ways what you've been saying. But
that's not what the campaign is about that they're waging. It's not
about trying to understand a thing. It's about making a lot of noise
and trying to expose you, Ellen and me as frauds.
Think what the conservative extremists are trying to do to the Obama
administration and the Democracts now in Congress. There is not one
thing they do that the extremists dont make a huge stink about. The
prupose is to throw as much shit against the wall as they can and hope
some of it sticks with the voting public come next election day. The
same tactic is being used here in the newsgroup by lopez, rat-boy and
deborah. At least gene w. smith isnt here anymore.
MikeRyder
<qqj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jun 19, 2:48�pm, JRad <jradgo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In a university environment you wouldn't get very far with your
>> ariticulation. �
>
>He and Ellen, Debs and Ryder would get their head handed to them quick
>at any university. Cult -think only seems to work in a very
>circumscribed, "us against them environment."
And that's exactly the environment you are trying to promote, guy.
Your intellectualized acim religionistic cult against anyone else who
dares to come to this newsgroup.
>
>Polarization is a powerful magic spell.
What is why you're engaging in an extreme egotistical polarizing
effort.
MikeRyder
>MikeRyder <no...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:15:06 GMT, Deborah <deborah@.daddydayo.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>>> <miracl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "C-5.2. The name of Jesus is the name of one who was a man but saw
>>>> the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
>>>> became identified with Christ , a man no longer, but at one with
>>>> God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate
>>>> being, walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his
>>>> self from Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless
>>>> he sees illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5
>>>> Jesus remains a Savior because he saw the false without accepting
>>>> it as true. 6 And Christ needed his form that He might appear to
>>>> men and save them from their own illusions.***"
>>>
>>> This paragraph doesn't say anything about anybody's illusions but
>>> Jesus's own. Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
>>> else, ellen. It takes my breath away. The author is talking about
>>> his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
>>
>> ...so you like to believe because that justifies your continuing to
>> run around in egotistical circles.
>>
>> Open your mind to Revelation of God. And dont claim you have because
>> you havent. When you do you will see *everything* differently.
>
>Open your heart to the Soul whose first glimpse is
>Revelation, and you won't have to relish ego-romps
>and trolling for attention, Mike.
>
>~ Lee
>
Well well well, the ego lee has come out of the woodwork again. Dude,
do you really think that "Open your heart to the Soul whose first
glimpse is Revelation, and you won't have to relish ego-romps
and trolling for attention, Mike" is anything other than what YOU'RE
doing?
A troll trashing others he thinks are trolls. That's rich. lol
MikeRyder
wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:32:24 -0700 (PDT), ellie
><miracl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 19, 11:15�am, Deborah <deborah@.daddydayo.net> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>>>
>>> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >"C-5.2. The name of �Jesus �is the name of one who was a man but saw
>>> >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
>>> >became identified with �Christ �, a man no longer, but at one with
>>> >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
>>> >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
>>> >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
>>> >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
>>> >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
>>> >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
>>> >their own illusions.***"
>>>
>>> This paragraph doesn't say anything about anybody's illusions but
>>> Jesus's own. �Amazing how you have managed to twist it into something
>>> else, ellen. �It takes my breath away. �The author is talking about
>>> his own former "s" self, here, in the third person.
>>>
>>> Deborah (BC)
>>
>>We are asked to do as Jesus did. We are asked to be the Christ. we
>>are the Christ. If you think this is talking to anyone but you ... if
>>you think this is about *another* you are mistaken. You/all of us,
>>the one mind wrote the Course. There is no one or nothing outside the
>>One.
>
>You are missing the point you bonehead.
Again more luv words. And the poster flynn complains about me. lol All
you need in addition to what you typed here is..."Eff Off!"
Ted
===============
You spin quite a story loopy, to bad you can't distinguish reality from your
stories. Next thing you know you'll be foaming at the mouth and calling us
mindkillers again.
MikeRyder
>On Jun 19, 2:26�pm, MikeRyder <n...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:31:17 -0700 (PDT), ellie
>>
>>
>>
>> <miraclelur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >There been talk about not seeing your brothers errors or ignoring his
>> >errors but this is what I found ...
>>
>> >"C-5.2. The name of �Jesus �is the name of one who was a man but saw
>> >the face of Christ in all his brothers and remembered God. 2 So he
>> >became identified with �Christ �, a man no longer, but at one with
>> >God. 3 The man was an illusion, for he seemed to be a separate being,
>> >walking by himself, within a body that appeared to hold his self from
>> >Self, as all illusions do. ***4 Yet who can save unless he sees
>> >illusions and then identifies them as what they are? 5 Jesus remains a
>> >Savior because he saw the false without accepting it as true. 6 And
>> >Christ needed his form that He might appear to men and save them from
>> >their own illusions.***"
>>
>> >We are asked to be saviors to our brothers. �Yet how can we without
>> >seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
>> >there full import, yet not accepting them as true. �Jesus, as the
>> >story goes, was in the midst of conflict. �You could say he entered
>> >conflict ... particularly in the full participation of his death. �So
>> >how can the miracle worker help to save his brother from his
>> >illusions, from his nightmares, from the darkness that he thinks he
>> >sees ... without willingness to join him there to lead him out ... by
>> >knowing full well those illusions (conflicts) are not real?
>>
>> >Is this more clear as to what I was pointing to when I said the
>> >miracle worker goes where others fear to tread?
>>
>> Yes. And the problem so many 'miracle workers' have is their denial
>> and subsequent disconnection the problems, as in the example of george
>> who tries to deny that he sees no conflict when in fact he does.
>
>This speaks so well of it, "We are asked to be saviors to our
>brothers. Yet how can we without
>seeing their illusions, without knowing their fears and seeing them in
>there full import, yet not accepting them as true.
>
More intellectual analysis with the hidden agenda of maintaining the
ego's thought system.
Ted
---------------
There are many people who can't see what really is John, and you sure fall
into that group. I say blame it on your big ego brain.
george
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:35:16 -0700 (PDT), george
>
> <georgeculol...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Compassion as I think you mean it. Means something went wrong and it
> >should have been different and there would be a joining in the
> >suffering of what was "Wrong"..yes?
>
> likely to recognize "love" in the act of feeding them or the act of
> ignoring them because there is no such thing as "starvation" in
> reality?
>
> Deborah (BC)
I would think I would be led to feed and give whatever I had..but I'm
not there and can't know.
One Truth
Ignorant? Where else but TRCM and cults themselves is it even an issue
whether deceitful, authoritarian and predatory spiritual practices
should be incorporated into course teachings?
It seems to me you and Ellen had such great success giving sanctuary
and exit counseling to all the victims of the Eots cult, that you
apparently reasoned why not apply the same methods tried and true cult
methods to course teachings and later give sanctuary and exit
counseling to TRCM course students dumb enough to by into
authoritarian, predatory spiritual practices.
Ted
----------------------
With a big ego brain like yours loopy I can't imagine why you would need an
example. Are you starting to get a little slow loopy boy? Tell me why your
big brain is so weak that you need tell people how smart you are. Silly boy
anyone can see that you are an elitist snob, who is really trading on his
own bragadotto and bluster, yet who folds when the mental lifting gets
tough.
One Truth
You care what people believe or you wouldn't be trying to milk this
experience for everything it is worth for your spiritual prestige.
Ted
----------------
Yes Ignorant.
The rest of your post is just more ego bullshit.
Ted
------------------------
Anyone who has had the experience will laugh at you ignorance John, and it
will also make them sad in a way too.
Ted
"MikeRyder" <no...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0vno35lvk8ve53f2j...@4ax.com...
Yup
In their ignorance.
ellie
Finally. I rest my case. :)
george
A case! sweet.
One Truth
All I need when you all your vanity spiritual arguments fall apart
with the least bit of challenge.
What can be more obvious than you are imitating Wayne?
That's why I can take you out of book so easily. You think being an
advaita proponent is memorizing sound bites and common question/answer
retorts. You have no clue of the reasoning of reasons behind the sound
bites. In fact you like all you cult idiots you hate reason largely
because you can't reason.
ellie
Examples won't help. It has to be experienced. Ask for the
experience.
ellie
Is that what this is about for you?
One Truth
> On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:16:54 -0700 (PDT), One Truth
>
Awe geez, Ryder. You pimp the truth with such ease, one must wonder
crack fiend act is just for show.
Ted
------------
Funny thing John boy cause I used to be blinded by my reason too. You spin
all these stories about thing you know nothing about, but I understand how
your big ego brain needs to come up with something that blinds you so you
can't see. If you ever are subject to grace and have the experience we are
talking about you will look back and laugh at the ignorance you display
here.
ellie
:)
One Truth
> "One Truth" <qqjo...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:232990dd-2ef8-4673...@l21g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> On Jun 19, 4:36 pm, "Ted" <octagonf...@gmail.com>
>
> > Do you think God gives a shit about a university environment?
>
> Lol. If a cult asshole like you Ted, thought God gave a shit about
> anything you might have some elementary notion of right thought and
> right action.
>
> But of course, in the rush to End the Search, smoke dope, have fun and
> make money from teaching the McDonald's version of Advaia, most of
> Traditional Advatia teachings was trash for the expediency of the
> moment.
> ===============
>
> You spin quite a story loopy, to bad you can't distinguish reality from your
> stories.
Well geez, I would imagine since its the same story told by
Traditional Advatia, they told the story to keep cheap shot cult MF
like you from trashing Advaita for the glory of highly dysfunctional
druggie, cult assholes.
Next thing you know you'll be foaming at the mouth and calling us
> mindkillers again.
Yeah, well its not surprising neither you or Ellen wish to talk about
the rampant systemic, abusive depersonalization such as found in a
spiritual cults and most obviously found in the Eots and the Endeavor
cults.
That because you are both totally fucking deceitful about cults, your
cult experience, and how much of learned cult experience and cult
methodology you are attempting to integrate into course thought and
course teachings here on trcm.
Instead of denying what is obvious to anyone who has a brain, instead
of defending cults by attempting to deny or mitigate systemic, abusive
depersonalization, perhaps you should just realize simply that many
people have no use for authoritarian spirituality.