Sovok
VA...@ohstpy.bitnet
Exept of "dust-pan or scoop" and exept of xSoviet Union SOVOK or
in russian COBOK means a former sitizen of the former Soviet Union.
I'd never advise an american to call russians COBOK. The same situation
is when a black man call a black man NEGRO it's treated like joke,but
when a white man call a black man NEGRO it's considered as offense.
Alexei A. Lebedev
I myself use to call the xSU people SOVOK (pl. SOVKI) if they share the
xCommy mentality.
KORO...@auducvax.bitnet
All the translations are correct but they did not explain the
derivation of the word in terms of its application to the name of the
country. The point is that here we deal with the game of words that is
alliteration. If you take another look at the names Sovetskii and Sovok,
you'll see that two first sillables are simular - Sov... . Russians
have an ironic arrangement of mind (or at least some of them), and they
are very inventive in this regard. Thus gradually the official name of
the country was substituted with the nickname in order to stress an ironic
attitude to everything belonging to the Soviet establishment. By using this
nickname a speaker lets you know that he considers the topic as a rubbish one
(to a certain extent, of course), since he does not take "Sovietskoe"
seriously.
Mikhailina Karina
quite outdated. I thought that SOVOK was a slang term for xUSSR. Now you say
that it refers to former Soviet citizens and that it's deragatory. I still
don't understand what it has to do with a scoop, although I certainly see
how xUSSR is connected to the concept of trash. Please explain why the term
is offensive.
Mikhailina
VA...@ohstpy.bitnet
I'm trying to explain to outdated Mihailina why the COBOK term MAY
BE offensive if it's used by non-sovok. This is hard task to do
by the way. I personally think that possible offense is connected
with implicit complex of "unperfectness" ( or smth like that )
that COBOK feels now. I repeat that this complex is implicit in the
most cases. Again I repeat that something similar you can observe
in a black man in the USA : there is no unequality between white
and black,but white is "more equal" then a black.
Another reason why sovok may be offensive word is that sovok with
respect to xUSSR is somewhat disrespective title. You may see now that
it is the same disrespect then you call xUSSR citizen using COBOK.
I repeat that it is acceptable among sovkov themselves but if an
American insists on using COBOK it may cause not good feelings
in russians.
P.S. If former sovok, but now US citizen or Legal Rezident use
Is going to use these term among russians, he must be aware
of the fact that there is big probability to "poluchit pizdy'
chtob ne vyebyvalsya"
Take care,
Vadick
Gregory Landsberg
From: C098...@wuvmd.bitnet (Mikhailina Karina)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.soviet
Subject: Re: Sovok
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:34:52 GMT
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In-Reply-To: C098...@wuvmd.bitnet's message of 10 Apr 92 19:34:52 GMT
In <TPS-L%9204101...@INDYCMS.BITNET> C098...@wuvmd.bitnet writes:
Hi, Karina:
The term SOVOK is really an example of the new slang which became popular
about two years ago. Before this date SOVOK had only local meaning - e.g.,
in Moscow the region of Savelovsky railway station used to be named in such
a way.
Originally SOVOK meaned USSR itself. As far as I understand, the original
association is not by sense (``trash''), but mainly by the sound
(``sovetskij''). The way this acronym was borned indicates that it was
invented by the criminals - it's very similar to the other ``blatnoi''
slang examples - quite primitive and disgusting. Unfortunately, a lot of
people use it now refering to the XSSR - perhaps this reflects the lowering
level of culture, especially the culture of speech. As with any popular
expression, the meaning of this term has been extended and currently it is
used for pointing out anything Soviet - Soviet people, Soviet way of life,
XSSR itself etc. Refering to people usage of this term implies some degree
of offence (``Nu, on - tipichnyj sovok!''). Refering to the life, things,
events etc. it implies some degree of disgust.
I strongly discourage you of using this term because it's really an
invention of perestroika-cooperative ``Novoyaz'' and has nothing to do with
the literature (even underground or modern ones) language.
Best regards,
Greg
Vsevolod A Sukhanovsky
In <920411003...@pX4.stfx.ca> bel...@PX4.STFX.CA writes:
>As I undestood,here "sovok" has the forth meaning - the state,ex-USSR.
>This meaning is the invention
>of the networker and emmigreiters.Inside ex-USSR this meaning does
>not use.
>Vic.Levadniy
Let me object to you. I had heard this word being in exUSSR. All my
former friends in Moscow used to use this word in the meaning of USSR.
Vlad Sukhanovsky.
Sergey Reznikov
(Gregory Landsberg) writes:
>The term SOVOK is really an example of the new slang which became
>popular about two years ago...
and
>I strongly discourage you of using this term because it's
>really an invention of perestroika-cooperative ``Novoyaz''...
Without arguing about the merits of the term, I have to point out that
I remember it commonly used in the early seventies in some circles to
describe "Our Soviet Way of Life" and its disgusting features. So it
may be that you heard it first about two years ago...
Sergey Reznikov
Alex Goykhman
>in Moscow the region of Savelovsky railway station used to be named in such
>a way.
>
>Originally SOVOK meaned USSR itself. As far as I understand, the original
>association is not by sense (``trash''), but mainly by the sound
>(``sovetskij''). The way this acronym was borned indicates that it was
>invented by the criminals - it's very similar to the other ``blatnoi''
>slang examples - quite primitive and disgusting. Unfortunately, a lot of
>people use it now refering to the XSSR - perhaps this reflects the lowering
>level of culture, especially the culture of speech.
No, "sovok" is there to describe a new social phenomenon. It's no more
a slang that any new word in any language.
Another example: folks who come from the xUSSR to visit their relatives
and friends in the US are called "pilesosi" ("vacuum cleaners") because
of what they (often) do to their hosts's garderobes and bank accounts.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gregory Landsberg
<...part of citation of my own previous posting is omitted...>
> No, "sovok" is there to describe a new social phenomenon. It's no more
> a slang that any new word in any language.
>
> Another example: folks who come from the xUSSR to visit their relatives
> and friends in the US are called "pilesosi" ("vacuum cleaners") because
> of what they (often) do to their hosts's garderobes and bank accounts.
Hey, come on! Not ANY common-used BY SOME GROUP OF PEOPLE word in a lan-
guage is a NEW word, i.e. neologism. The more, SOVOK is not actually a new
word - it is just a new-invented meaning of well known Russian word. It's a
TYPICAL slang (like your example of ``pylesosy'', like ``zelenyj'' or
``kapusta'' for notation of $). The only fact that here, abroad it is used
more commonly than back to XSSR reflects only a gap between emigrant and
domestic culture. This time this gap is not in emigrant favour, however.
Perhaps it will yield a lot of flames, but it's worth mention that Russian
language is developed mainly in dominion and not abroad. Of course it's
true not only for Russian but for almost any language. The good example is
Ivrit which nearly died during >1000 years of diaspora and was actually
revived in Israel.
So, I repeat that SOVOK is an example of slang, the more, it is an example
of BAD slang which was originated in the non-intelligent media. A friend of
mine after the last posting mentioned that first time he heard the word
SOVOK several years ago in the company of the childs of diplomats, trade
representatives etc. (which lately were known as HOROSHO UPAKOVANNYE -
another example of slang). And the way of using this word by these people
was very unattractive, because it has a very clear taste of ``lakejstvo''
(``Holuj, vybivshijsya v upravlyauschie''). So, it's not surprising that
the term spread very fast in the new-born trade-cooperative media in XSSR
and was exported abroad along with petrol, metal and wood.
I completely agree with you that the way this word is used here rather
different from the way it's used there, but still it's not a slang of
high-educated people, and I hope that it will be forgotten very soon with
the decay of the very place and the very way of life to which word SOVOK is
usually applied.
I deeply regret that I had to use this word several times in this text, but
as A.Ahmatova said once ``Mi zhe v kontse kontsov filologi!''
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Disclaimer: all opinions are mine.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hopefully! <*smile*>
Cheers,
Greg
Aleksey Y. Romanov
>
>So, I repeat that SOVOK is an example of slang, the more, it is an example
>of BAD slang which was originated in the non-intelligent media.
As far as I know SOVOK was used by hard currency whores
( _valutnye _prositutki) talking about xUSSR citizens.
Aleksey Y. Romanov
Mikhailina Karina
Thank you for your eloquent response. It's nice to know that at least some
of the readers of the Net are not outdated.
Mikhailina
Simon Streltsov
>> No, "sovok" is there to describe a new social phenomenon. It's no more
>> a slang that any new word in any language.
>
>Perhaps it will yield a lot of flames, but it's worth mention that Russian
Yep.
>language is developed mainly in dominion and not abroad. Of course it's
>true not only for Russian but for almost any language. The good example is
>Ivrit which nearly died during >1000 years of diaspora and was actually
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>revived in Israel.
>
It may be classified as a typical sovok (not in my lexicon, maybe I'm using
it wrong, flame me back (--:] ), or as a not the best example at least.
Although I'm flaming the "nearly died" Ivrit ( proofs for advanced readers
available upon request), Ican add, that in my IMHO, Ivrit did change
from the time of the Second Temple till Zionism (not as much as
Russian of course (--:]).
>
>I deeply regret that I had to use this word several times in this text, but
I regret either.
>as A.Ahmatova said once ``Mi zhe v kontse kontsov filologi!''
> ~~~~~~~~
Anachnu filologim?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Greg
Senya Streltsov
Boston University,
.where .is .my .sig .!?