Re: the Ukraine mess

george152

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Aug 5, 2015, 4:20:14 PM8/5/15

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On 5/08/2015 11:59 p.m., jonathan wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out how to pay 200,000 protesters
> and keep it secret. But they must have been paid, the
> idea the people of Ukraine had anything to be upset about
> is so absurd.
>
> No wait a minute, I take that all back, it was all
> an American conspiracy, America controls everything
> and everyone like puppets.
>
> And don't you forget it~
>
:)
For one thing there would never be (from the left) more than 200
organisers and a couple of hundred dreamers who follow.
Most of the funding was through unions and those 'Friendship' groups...

Oleg Smirnov

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Aug 5, 2015, 8:06:21 PM8/5/15

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jonathan, <news:LMydnR5AUPoYZ1zI...@giganews.com>
> On 8/3/2015 3:32 PM, Kerryn Offord wrote:
>> On 8/4/2015 6:43 AM, jonathan wrote:
>>> On 7/14/2015 3:38 AM, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

>>>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/>
>>>>
>>>> The Mess that Nuland Made
>>>>
>>>> July 13, 2015
>>>>
>>>> Exclusive: Assistant Secretary of State Victoria
>>>> Nuland engineered Ukraine's
>>>> "regime change" in early 2014 without weighing the
>>>> likely chaos and consequences.
>>>
>>> Hod did she do that, exactly? How did she get all those
>>> protesters to demonstrate? Did she send out emails
>>> asking them to protest? Or hypnotize them?
>>>
>>> How did she engineer the uprising?
>>
>> The money to support/ pay for those "protesters" came
>> from somewhere...

>
> I'm trying to figure out how to pay 200,000 protesters
> and keep it secret. But they must have been paid, the
> idea the people of Ukraine had anything to be upset about
> is so absurd.
>
> No wait a minute, I take that all back, it was all
> an American conspiracy, America controls everything
> and everyone like puppets.
>
> And don't you forget it~

"Meet the Americans Who Put Together the Coup in Kiev"
1 <http://tinyurl.com/ol737jb>
2 <http://tinyurl.com/qe99b5n>

The writer of this stuff is even anti-Putin and not Russia-friendly.

And there's no need to pay to protesters, it's rather possible to pay to the
mass media owners and 'leaders of public opinion' to artificially exaggerate
lies, hysteria and incite the mob.

The next research is right about that, a must-read for the American public.

<http://tinyurl.com/o3mk7qr>

Subsequent psychological studies as well as observation of humans throughout
history demonstrate that they are indeed malleable and capable of a wide range
of behaviors; but there is nothing indicating that humans are doomed to act
like brutal mobs or genocidal maniacs unless they are led in that direction by
powerful social forces.

Bernays' work and the philosophy underpinning it have paved the way for the
cynical use of grand ideas like freedom, democracy and human rights to sell
mindless consumption, wars, coups, color revolutions (i.e. contrived regime
changes under the pretense of spreading democracy or "western values"), and
instability - all in the service of a small group of people who benefit. ..

jonathan

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Aug 6, 2015, 5:27:46 PM8/6/15

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You mean like when the govt has complete
control of all the mass media, and only
allows their own self-serving views to air?

Is that what you mean?

> The next research is right about that, a must-read for the American public.
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/o3mk7qr>
>
> Subsequent psychological studies as well as observation of humans
> throughout
> history demonstrate that they are indeed malleable and capable of a wide
> range
> of behaviors; but there is nothing indicating that humans are doomed to act
> like brutal mobs or genocidal maniacs unless they are led in that
> direction by
> powerful social forces.
>

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Aug 16, 2015, 4:33:05 PM8/16/15

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<http://www.unian.info/war/1111956-over-100-suicides-among-ukrainian-soldiers-reported-since-beginning-of-ato.html>

"At present, about 136 suicides have been reported since the beginning of
the Anti-Terrorist Operation implementation, according to a source in the
Ukrainian Defense Ministry, Ukrainian news agency TSN reported. .. volunteer
services, currently dealing with soldiers, sound the alarm .. assistance of
mental health professionals .."

The main reason is that a large part of the pro-Kiev military find the
fratricide war pointless and hopeless, but the Kiev freaks chase the cattle
for slaughter. This causes a natural depression among the military staff.
Falsehood about the 'mental health professionals' and artificial 'patriotic'
ardor hardly will help. In turn, the Donbas militias are naturally motivated
to protect their land from invaders. So their morale is more strong against
those who are forcibly (18-60 y/o) drafted into army by the new Kiev regime.

Beam Me Up Scotty

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Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.

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Aug 20, 2015, 3:13:03 AM8/20/15

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I attack at dawn...are you with me?
;-)

jack595

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Aug 21, 2015, 5:03:49 PM8/21/15

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In article <mr82te$uvk$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

We can afford it, Russia can't. Armegeddon will be like when the Soviet Union
folded, not with a bang but a whimper.

Oleg Smirnov

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Aug 22, 2015, 3:47:56 PM8/22/15

to

David E. Powell, <news:ac8768b9-8e9c-487e...@googlegroups.com>

> Ad hominem attacks do not change reality.
>
> Going back to the boilerplate propaganda seems to be the
> default position.
>
> No Russians were involved in the taking of Crimea? Just
> state the lie, trusting that it will suffice as long as
> no one objects forcefully enough.

What exactly do you believe is a lie in my reasoning?

I never denied that the Russian troops in Crimea took part in the
organization of Crimean reunification with Russia, I have rather
explained their mission, - which wasn't 'invasion'.

A conqueror uses troops to suppress people's will and coerce them
to submit to the brute power of the conqueror. That's what the new
Kiev regime, under Western patronage, tries to implement against
the Donbas people presently. In Crimea, the overwhelming majority
was and is clearly pro-Russia, so there was no any need to coerce
them forcibly to anything, there was rather a necessity to exclude
possibility of violent coercion / destabilization.

This picture is clearly confirmed not only by the referendum, but
also by various independent polls in Crimea (all this doesn't
mean that there are no internal political struggles in Crimea
around various domestic issues, which your propagandist media may
try to misrepresent as alleged mass protests against Russia).

> Both the USA and Russia have gone halfway before. It
> never works well. I guess it is Putin's turn to do it.
> (Yes, he is Russia's National Command Authority. The
> Russian military does not act except at his command.
> Unless that has changed, which would be worrisome for a
> lot of people, I suppose.)
>
> I can sympathize with the bind you are in, however, Oleg.
> When one has some knowledge of strategy and tactics, as
> you do, it is difficult to see those higher in the chain
> of command making unclear decisions. I watched the US
> High Command in Iraq steadfastly refuse to learn from and
> apply counterinsurgency tactics for years. Including ones
> they should have known from Vietnam. Then I saw Iraq
> stabilized by hearts and minds efforts combined with
> solid applications of direct force to pin down the
> guerrillas, isolate them from popular support, and blast
> them with superior firepower. The US military had learned
> and applied the necessary lessons. Then a new National
> Command Authority got into office, pulled support, and
> let Iraq fall apart politically and in terms of defensive
> capability. They did nothing as Iran walked in from one
> side and the Jihadis created by Assad's instability in
> Syria came in from the other.
>
> I am sure you are experiencing similar feelings now. I am
> not attacking you, I sympathize. Unless Russia's
> government can define goals and what they are willing to
> do to accomplish them, they are in a tough spot, and so
> are the Russians sent into battle in the Ukraine, along
> with the locals backing them. Fortunately, there is
> nothing like ISIS or Iran in Ukraine now, and Russia has
> no cost in accepting a deal where they keep Crimea and
> pull out of the rest of the Country. It would still be a
> win for them, the one they could have had rather
> bloodlessly at the beginning of this mess. The problem is
> that the government in Moscow may not want to settle for
> that now. They may want to push on, but if they have not
> defined how far they will push and by what methods as
> yet, that makes things very difficult.

I don't quite understand how exactly you see a similarity between
American involvements in the war in Iraq and elsewhere, and the
Russian involvement in the Ukraine.

The American foreign wars are caused by lust to global dominance
in combination with false messianic agenda. The US foreign policy
makers have 'democracy' and 'universal values' on their banner in
very similar way to the global jihadists that are pursuing the
idea of the global islamisation. How can it be similar to Russia?

American ideologists and media master minds misrepresent Russian
agenda to Western audience as an alleged desire to reestablish
the Soviet-like bloc, revive Russian imperial greatness, and so on.
This falsehood can be bought only by domestic American public. It
has a little to do with how the Russian policy makers see things.

For Russia, the US (the American establishment, policy makers) is
a sort of maniacal psycho, that developed strong fixation towards
the USSR previously, and now redirects it to another entity. For
example, Mr Kissinger has confirmed recently that 'breaking Russia
has become an objective' for the 'neoconservatives and liberal
hawks in Washington, DC'. So, on Russian part, it's important to
protect the country and people from such a bloodthirsty madman.

Russia doesn't have a globalist agenda in contrast to the American
interventionism or the global Jihad, and the Russian involvement
in the Ukraine has nothing to do with a desire 'to conquest lands'
in imperial-like way. Absorption/annexation of territories where
the locals feel unfriendly to Russia is the last thing the Russians
would need. Nor Russia would be interested to make them happy by
bringing them 'democracy' the US-style.

If you know this then you can also understand utter absurdity of
the idea that Russia is interested to invade / conquer the Ukraine
(and further everywhere: the Baltics, Poland, Finland and so on).

The Ukrainian conflict was caused by the anti-constitutional and
anti-democratic coup implemented by a part of the Ukrainian
establishment in alliance with the local neo-Nazi militant groups
under strong political and media support - in violation of the
Budapest memorandum - from the US government and its EU vassals.

The new regime and the coup-imposed illegitimate government was
clearly rejected by a part of the Ukrainian people. The Western
powers supported the anti-constitutional coup, the Western mass
media promoted the false image of 'revolution against a tyrant',
so they could not afford to honestly recognize the fact that a
noticeable part or the Ukraine had rejected what was established
under Western patronage. So they started to blame Russia instead.
In such conditions those in the Ukraine who protested against
the anti-democratic coup could only seek for help from Russia.
On Russia's part, it'd be immoral to betray hopes of the people
and left them helpless against the coup-imposed freaks in Kiev.

Really, the new Kiev regime is ugly, and sane people naturally
dislike it, its propaganda exploits very low instincts / promotes
hatreds and lies, and it needs a war to stay somehow afloat.

All this explains the logic of Russian involvement in the Ukraine.
There are no 'the Russians sent into battle in the Ukraine along
with the locals backing them', there are the local folks in the
battle along with the volunteers from Russia helping them, there
are humanitarian supplies from Russia to Donbas, and there is
Kremlin's effort to stop the Kiev freaks from murdering people
and coerce Kiev to negotiate with Donbas.

In turn, the American foreign policy makers are interested to
encourage and help Kiev to suppress the Donbas resistance by
brute military force, - to achieve this goal the US propaganda
via the MSM along with various US-related NGOs try their best to
demonize Russia and misrepresent its objectives.

> On the Ukrainian side of the coin, the Russians will have
> to concentrate on "Hearts and Minds," but as long as
> force on force fighting is going on, that makes it tough.
> To really do this stuff, one has to occupy territory,
> become a provider of services and a guarantor of security
> for people who trust and side with your forces. The whole
> country is not yet occupied, and the more fighting goes
> on, the more bad feelings get worse. Especially with the
> news coming out of Crimea and other territories of
> industrial equipment being taken back to Russia, as with
> the Shipyards. The locals need jobs and a secure
> environment to keep them happy. If the Shipyard workers
> figure the new government isn't taking care of them, they
> turn into Lech Walesa. There are a lot of balls to keep
> in the air.
>
> This situation as it stands is just with the current
> situation on the ground and the current economic
> sanctions. There are ways it could get worse. Russia, of
> course, has several options to escalate things as far as
> political pressure and military power, but I am guessing
> that so far the National Command Authority in Moscow has
> weighed the costs of those measures as outweighing the
> potential benefits they could provide.
>
> So the war drags on, with the Russian forces not fully
> committed, and not uncommitted. This isn't an accusation
> meant to incite or to impugn any nation, it is a
> statement of objective conditions on the battlefield as
> they have stood for some time now. It is a tough spot for
> any military to find itself in. That is, again, not
> speculation or meant as insult, but an objective
> statement of conditions based in historical study of
> several instances.

jack595

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unread,

Sep 5, 2015, 5:21:14 PM9/5/15

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<https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/09/john-v-walsh/the-jealous-bitter-criminal-us-empire/>

Letter from President Obama to President Xi On the Occasion of the 70th
Anniversary of the End of WWII.
By John V. Walsh

September 5, 2015

Dear President Xi,

On September 3, your country is hosting a commemoration of the end of World War
II on the 70th Anniversary of the day recognized as its termination in the
Asia-Pacific. You have invited both me and President Abe of Japan. We both
have chosen to refuse - just as we refused to attend the earlier commemoration
of the defeat of Fascism in Moscow last Spring.

As you very well know, Jinping, if I may use your given name, this makes the
United States look pretty mean spirited. And to put it plainly, your cooking up
these events with Vlad pisses me off. The world knows that the Chinese and
Russians made unparalleled sacrifices to defeat Nazism in the West and Japanese
militarism in the East. The world knows that China suffered almost 20 million
casualties and great atrocities exemplified by the Rape of Nanjing. And the
world knows that close to 30 million Russians gave their lives in that
struggle. The U.S. in contrast lost 460,000 souls, and so it looks pretty
shoddy when I do not show up to acknowledge your victory and the great debt we
owe China and Russia since your loss of life minimized our own. It looks bad
for us. But you know that, and you know it damned well. So do not think for a
moment that I do not see through this "parade" on September 3 as an exercise in
soft power. But I also warn you that you will not succeed, as I will make clear
below.

First let me survey the further damage that I think you and Vlad are trying to
do. Let me emphasize that word "trying," because, I repeat, you will fail. Even
as you celebrate the victory over neo-Nazism in the West, we were using
neo-Nazi forces in Ukraine to overthrow the elected government of Ukraine and
assault Russia. And to top it off we are pushing Abe to rekindle the fascist
militarism in Japan, which he is ramming through - successfully I might add -
despite the objections of over half his population, taking the form of hundreds
of thousands demonstrating against his new militarism <http://is.gd/vdqBgE>.
Even South Korea is deserting us over this, and I might say it angers me
mightily to see the South Korean President attend your September 3
celebrations. We have warned her that she might not get re-elected if she keeps
this up. We have our ways. Ask the surviving relatives of Ngo Dinh Diem.

Yesterday it was called to my attention that SputnikNews ridiculed my White
House spokesperson <http://sptnkne.ws/EYu>, Joshua Earnest, when he said he,
and I, know nothing of your commemoration cum parade. The accompanying cartoon
was really over the top, and it was rerun in China Daily I am told. We
notice these things, especially Hillary who gets quite vexed by them. Then she
is on the phone to me, which ends up being the hardest part of my day - except
when Bibi calls.

And there are other complaints drifting in to me. Many of the countries in the
developing world are telling me that I should take the occasion to congratulate
China on its enormous progress since the end of WWII. They especially needle
me about the roughly 700 million people brought out of poverty in the last 30
years, which has accounted for almost all the progress against poverty in the
world during this period. In no uncertain terms, they say that your model is
peaceful and ours is warlike. I do not like to hear that one bit, Jinping.
Where is the respect? It really fries my derriere.

And then there is your AIIB <http://migre.me/rruDW>, on which all of our allies
deserted us, save for Japan. Larry Summers, of all people, and the
indispensible Madeline Albright complained about that and rubbed my nose in it
publicly. Finally, there is all the hype you are dishing out about the One
Belt, One Road Initiative <http://on.rt.com/i4da6v>. Enough is enough,
Jinping.

But as I said this stuff will not succeed. It will not count one wit unless
the people of the West and the American people wake up to it. That is where
you will fail. We have very sophisticated means of reaching our people. Each
of our big dailies, the NYT, the Wall Street Journal and USA Today, each of
which reaches 1 million people or more weekly, not to mention the Washington
Post, will never broadcast these themes. The very fact of 700 million brought
out of poverty is rarely mentioned even in the final paragraphs of an article.
Then there is our crown jewel, National Public Radio, which might as well be
broadcasting directly from the Pentagon and State and sometimes do. NPR's
audience has a mean income of $90,000. These are our opinion receivers and
repeaters and they are very reliable. They have no idea they are in the dark.
They have been educated in the best schools. You will not catch nary a one of
them reading China Daily <http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/>, for example. In fact
you might as well stop distributing that particular rag in the U.S. It does
you no good.

One final thing, Jinping. We are tired of hearing of your philosophy of
"win-win" when it comes to relations between nations. We in Europe and the U.S.
have been in the global driver's seat for half a millennium now. We know from
our own history that interactions between nations involve win-lose, domination
and conquest. If it is true for us, how could it be otherwise for anyone else?
The mere fact of nuclear weapons will not change that. We are ready to fight
on. Exceptionalism will prevail.

And Jinping, if you think that I am uncooperative or aggressive, you ain't seen
nothin' yet. Wait until Hillary becomes president. She is a whirling dervish
when it comes to the pivot to Asia. Then you will know what standing on the
precipice of oblivion looks like.

Sincerely yours,
Barack H. Obama
President

The Best of John V. Walsh <http://chilp.it/4629459>

Oleg Smirnov

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Sep 6, 2015, 8:07:45 AM9/6/15

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Thoughts from South Africa (ANC <http://bit.ly/1UA0Uwz> document)

<http://www.anc.org.za/docs/umrabulo/2015/ngc_disc_docsy.pdf>

.. The rise of China as the second strongest economy, with the re-emergence of
economies of Russia, and major countries of the South, is gradually redefining
the world towards a multi-polar order. Therefore, the growing influence of China
on the global economy is an important factor in the balance of global power
relations.

Further giving credence to "shifting balance of forces", as opposed to static
observation, of the dominant US led unipolar world, is the emergence of BRICS
constituted by Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa. The formation of
BRICS as a powerful political and socio economic bloc is necessarily not just
about the size of the population of the member states but also the abundance of
the requisite markets.

.. The US does not appreciate the resurgence of China and Russia as dominant
factors in the arena of international power relations. It has instead declared a
cold war against these two emerging world powers.

- The US is bent on portraying China as the world's worst polluter and a threat
to the environment with the intention being to suggest that China is but a paper
tiger whose economic rise is not sustainable.

- The US, backed by its ideological apparatus, has tried a repeat of the
Tiananmen Square against the Chinese government by parading to the world counter
revolution as a popular uprising and counter revolutionaries as human rights
activists.

- The US is exploiting China's dispute with some of its Asian neighbours over
the North and South China Sea islands to rally these neighbours against China,
including trying to build an anti-China alliance of Asian satellite statesthat
will take its ordersfrom Washington.

Russia has not been spared the wrath of US-led Western imperialism. As with
China, the Russian leadership is constantly being portrayed in the Western media
and official discourse as monsters abusing human rights. As with China, counter
revolutionary demonstrations and marches are being staged and given huge
publicity in the Western media in order to destabilise and / provoke the Russian
government.

Whatever genuine concerns may exist within the Russian population and
populations of former Soviet Union, there is a clear plot to exploit this in
order to contain the rise of Russia globally. It is an encirclement strategy
that seeks to isolate Russia in the manner that is being attempted on China as
well.

This is the context within which the crisis in Ukraine should be understood by
the world progressive forces. The war taking place in Ukraine is not about
Ukraine. Its intended target is Russia. As with China, Russia's neighbours are
being mobilised to adopt a hostile posture against Moscow, and enticed to join
the European Union and NATO. Pro-West satellite states are being cultivated or
as we saw with the coup in Ukraine, even invented, to encircle Russia and allow
their territory to be used for the deployment of NATO's hostile military
hardware faced in the direction of Russia. These Western manoeuvres, directed
from Washington, are reminiscent of Cold War. They have vowed in Washington that
there will be Russia or China to challenge the US hegemony.

Washington's sponsored destabilisation is not limited to Russia and China. We
see it unfolding in the streets of Latin America including in Venezuela which
the US has strangely declared a threat to its "national security", in the Middle
East and in African countries with the sole intention of toppling a progressive
democratically-elected governments. This has a bearing on the nature of conflict
and the scourge of terrorism we see in the world today. ..

abelard

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Sep 7, 2015, 3:12:17 PM9/7/15

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On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 18:22:23 -0000, "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru>
wrote:

><http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/09/new-violence-in-kiev-but-nobody-seems-to-care-much.html>
>
>New Violence in Kiev - But Nobody Seems to Care Much
>
>02 September 2015 4:02 PM
>
>Forgive me for mentioning it, but serious violence has returned to Kiev, scene
>(in February 2014) of the lawless overthrow of the legitimate President of
>Ukraine. Viktor Yanukovych, by a violent, armed mob. For a list of the 18
>police officers incontestably killed in the 2014 events, whose deaths are
>proof that this was not a wholly one-sided clash between ruthless state and
>peaceful, unarmed people, see here <http://bit.ly/1FtyxZZ>
>
>This supposedly spontaneous events of 2014 (in my experience as a
>revolutionary, spontaneity takes a lot of organising), in which serving
>foreign politicians and diplomats openly showed their partiality towards the
>demonstrators, and the legitimate President was unconstitutionally removed
>from office, has now passed into myth as a laudable exercise in idealistic and
>disinterested people power, supposedly aimed at ending the corruption and
>general squalor of Ukraine's oligarch-dominated state.
>
>To which one can only respond with helpless if bitter laughter, as the
>resulting government is actually headed by an oligarch and entirely dominated
>by them, and if Ukraine has since ceased in any important way to be
>Olympically corrupt, then I have to say I have seen no reports of this.
>
>Now, I have from time to time, in many debates on this subject, pointed out
>that grave danger in which the Kiev government finds itself. Having come to
>power through mob violence, it has no real moral protection from falling in
>the same way. ..
>
>What's striking is that the reports of these events tend to be well inside the
>newspapers and well down the broadcasts, and to be pretty strictly factual,
>lacking the breathless emotionalism of the reports on the famous 'Maidan' of
>the winter of 2013-2014. ..
>
>By the way, now that we all know so much more about the 'democratic' process
>by which Britain was brought into the EU, its dishonesty and general lack of
>real knowledge, can people please stop telling me that the countries of
>central Europe are willing members of the EU and NATO? Their elites are
>certainly willing. But I think the views of the people are a lot more
>ambiguous. I feel a special pang for Poland, released from Soviet captivity
>only to be immediately led, with chains of money, into the open prison of the
>EU.
>
>I wonder if the anti-Russian frenzy of Poland's more populist politicians can

why on earth would poles be wary of you lot....

apart from the mass racist and religious killings of poles...and a
little matter of your invasion with your ally, adolf......

you're almost a cabaret act

>be compared to the fervent anti-Israel feelings encouraged in the police
>states of the Muslim world - a safety valve in which genuine discontent can be
>funnelled into phoney emotionalism against an enemy who isn't really an enemy
>at all. Poland doesn't even have a border with Russia, unless you count the
>Kaliningrad exclave. But it is now wholly dominated by a German-led EU.
>(OS: It's somewhat close to truth. One may see a little interest to Poland in
>Russian media and society while internal Polish information space is obsessed
>with Russia in unhealthy way. This makes a large part of the Poles sort of
>loonies. Artificial image of Russia is used by the Polish MSM - controlled by
>Atlanticist masters, mostly - as a tool for domestic social engineering. They
>are in persistent search for various Russian conspiracies against Poland, they
>blame each other to be veiled Russian agents and spies, and like that.)
>
>Read full article here <http://dailym.ai/1NXSxfw>

>
>
>
>> <http://tinyurl.com/pq5tw6m> salon.com
>> Outright lies from the New York Times: What you need to know about the
>> dangerous new phase in the Ukraine crisis

--
www.abelard.org

jack595

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Sep 7, 2015, 3:20:28 PM9/7/15

to

In article <mskkl4$ej0$1...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...

>be compared to the fervent anti-Israel feelings encouraged in the police
>states of the Muslim world - a safety valve in which genuine discontent can be
>funnelled into phoney emotionalism against an enemy who isn't really an enemy
>at all. Poland doesn't even have a border with Russia, unless you count the
>Kaliningrad exclave. But it is now wholly dominated by a German-led EU.
>(OS: It's somewhat close to truth. One may see a little interest to Poland in
>Russian media and society while internal Polish information space is obsessed
>with Russia in unhealthy way. This makes a large part of the Poles sort of
>loonies. Artificial image of Russia is used by the Polish MSM - controlled by
>Atlanticist masters, mostly - as a tool for domestic social engineering. They
>are in persistent search for various Russian conspiracies against Poland, they
>blame each other to be veiled Russian agents and spies, and like that.)
>
>Read full article here <http://dailym.ai/1NXSxfw>
>
>
>

>> <http://tinyurl.com/pq5tw6m> salon.com
>> Outright lies from the New York Times: What you need to know about the
>> dangerous new phase in the Ukraine crisis
>

Always fun to try to read Oleg's products, he cites rioght wing nuts to show
that Obama is reducing the American profile in the world and then some other
crazy about how Obama is increasing the influence of America in the world.
Russia wants bad Americans but can't stand the ones that keep them from losing
their shirts.

jack595

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Sep 10, 2015, 7:34:43 AM9/10/15

to

In article <msqogg$shp$2...@os.motzarella.org>, Oleg Smirnov says...
>
>Mr. Sarkozy, <http://tinyurl.com/p6gxssa> lefigaro.fr
>
>We see a serious mistake which was the creations of conditions for a new cold
>war with Russia. We need Russia due to Syria mess. We must turn the page of the
>Cold War with Moscow .. Russia should return to the G8 ..
>
>
>
>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/07/how-neocons-destabilized-europe/>
>>
>> How Neocons Destabilized Europe

I realize you have no clue as to how American democracy works, and I mean works.
This is just the warm up, reality sets in about March of 2016 when all of this
back and forth settles down to a few candidates. There is no media push to any
of this and your fantasy that the media drives the democracy is inverse, the
democracy drives the media. Pay attention, you need the drill for the next
round.

Peter Skelton

unread,

Sep 10, 2015, 10:29:39 AM9/10/15

to

"jack595" wrote in message news:msrps...@drn.newsguy.com...

Everything after 'clue' in your post is extraneous.

Oleg Smirnov

unread,

Jul 14, 2015, 3:38:44 AM7/14/15

to

<https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/>

The Mess that Nuland Made

July 13, 2015

Exclusive: Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland engineered Ukraine's
"regime change" in early 2014 without weighing the likely chaos and
consequences. Now, as neo-Nazis turn their guns on the government, it's hard
to see how anyone can clean up the mess that Nuland made, writes Robert
Parry.

By Robert Parry

As the Ukrainian army squares off against ultra-right and neo-Nazi militias
in the west and violence against ethnic Russians continues in the east, the
obvious folly of the Obama administration's Ukraine policy has come into
focus even for many who tried to ignore the facts, or what you might call
"the mess that Victoria Nuland made."

Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs "Toria" Nuland was the
"mastermind" behind the Feb. 22, 2014 "regime change" in Ukraine, plotting
the overthrow of the democratically elected government of President Viktor
Yanukovych while convincing the ever-gullible U.S. mainstream media that the
coup wasn't really a coup but a victory for "democracy."

To sell this latest neocon-driven "regime change" to the American people, the
ugliness of the coup-makers had to be systematically airbrushed, particularly
the key role of neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists from the Right Sektor.
For the U.S.-organized propaganda campaign to work, the coup-makers had to
wear white hats, not brown shirts.

So, for nearly a year and a half, the West's mainstream media, especially The
New York Times and The Washington Post, twisted their reporting into all
kinds of contortions to avoid telling their readers that the new regime in
Kiev was permeated by and dependent on neo-Nazi fighters and Ukrainian
ultra-nationalists who wanted a pure-blood Ukraine, without ethnic Russians.

Any mention of that sordid reality was deemed "Russian propaganda" and anyone
who spoke this inconvenient truth was a "stooge of Moscow." It wasn't until
July 7 that the Times admitted <http://bit.ly/1Skd3Vk> the importance of the
neo-Nazis and other ultra-nationalists in waging war against ethnic Russian
rebels in the east. The Times also reported that these far-right forces had
been joined by Islamic militants (OS: <http://bit.ly/1Skd3Vk>). Some of those
jihadists have been called "brothers" of the hyper-brutal Islamic State.

Though the Times sought to spin this remarkable military alliance - neo-Nazi
militias and Islamic jihadists - as a positive, the reality had to be jarring
for readers who had bought into the Western propaganda about noble
"pro-democracy" forces resisting evil "Russian aggression."

Perhaps the Times sensed that it could no longer keep the lid on the
troubling truth in Ukraine. For weeks, the Right Sektor militias and the
neo-Nazi Azov battalion have been warning the civilian government in Kiev
that they might turn on it and create a new order more to their liking.

Clashes in the West

Then, on Saturday, violent clashes broke out <http://nyti.ms/1M39Zgu> in the
western Ukrainian town of Mukachevo, allegedly over the control of
cigarette-smuggling routes. Right Sektor paramilitaries sprayed police
officers with bullets from a belt-fed machinegun, and police - backed by
Ukrainian government troops - returned fire. Several deaths and multiple
injuries were reported.

Tensions escalated on Monday with President Petro Poroshenko ordering
national security forces to disarm "armed cells" of political movements.
Meanwhile, the Right Sektor dispatched reinforcements to the area while other
militiamen converged on the capital of Kiev.

While President Poroshenko and Right Sektor leader Dmitry Yarosh may succeed
in tamping down this latest flare-up of hostilities, they may be only
postponing the inevitable: a conflict between the U.S.-backed authorities in
Kiev and the neo-Nazis and other right-wing fighters who spearheaded last
year's coup and have been at the front lines of the fighting against ethnic
Russian rebels in the east.

The Ukrainian right-wing extremists feel they have carried the heaviest
burden in the war against the ethnic Russians and resent the politicians
living in the relative safety and comfort of Kiev. In March, Poroshenko also
fired thuggish oligarch Igor Kolomoisky <http://bit.ly/1HGHlR8> as governor
of the southeastern province of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast. Kolomoisky had been
the primary benefactor of the Right Sektor militias.

So, as has become apparent across Europe and even in Washington, the Ukraine
crisis is spinning out of control, making the State Department's preferred
narrative of the conflict - that it's all Russian President Vladimir Putin's
fault - harder and harder to sell.

How Ukraine is supposed to pull itself out of what looks like a death
spiral - a possible two-front war in the east and the west along with a
crashing economy - is hard to comprehend. The European Union, confronting
budgetary crises over Greece and other EU members, has little money or
patience for Ukraine, its neo-Nazis and its socio-political chaos.

America's neocons at The Washington Post and elsewhere still rant about the
need for the Obama administration to sink more billions upon billions of
dollars into post-coup Ukraine because it "shares our values." But that
argument, too, is collapsing as Americans see the heart of a racist
nationalism beating inside Ukraine's new order.

Another Neocon 'Regime Change'

Much of what has happened, of course, was predictable and indeed was
predicted, but neocon Nuland couldn't resist the temptation to pull off a
"regime change" that she could call her own.

Her husband (and arch-neocon) Robert Kagan had co-founded the Project for the
New American Century in 1998 around a demand for "regime change" in Iraq, a
project that was accomplished in 2003 with President George W. Bush's
invasion. ..

(OS: Read the full article here <http://bit.ly/1L4xQxg>)

.. Nuland saw her big chance on Feb. 20, 2014, when a mysterious sniper -
apparently firing from a building controlled by the Right Sektor - shot and
killed both police and protesters, escalating the crisis. On Feb. 21, in a
desperate bid to avert more violence, Yanukovych agreed to a
European-guaranteed plan in which he accepted reduced powers and called for
early elections so he could be voted out of office.

But that wasn't enough for the anti-Yanukovych forces who - led by Right
Sektor and neo-Nazi militias - overran government buildings on Feb. 22,
forcing Yanukovych and many of his officials to flee for their lives. With
armed thugs patrolling the corridors of power, the final path to "regime
change" was clear.

Instead of trying to salvage the Feb. 21 agreement, Nuland and European
officials arranged for an unconstitutional procedure to strip Yanukovych of
the presidency and declared the new regime "legitimate." Nuland's "guy" -
Yatsenyuk - became prime minister.

While Nuland and her neocon cohorts celebrated, their "regime change"
prompted an obvious reaction from Putin, who recognized the strategic threat
that this hostile new regime posed to the historic Russian naval base at
Sevastopol in Crimea. On Feb. 23, he began to take steps to protect those
Russian interests.

Ethnic Hatreds

What the coup also did was revive long pent-up antagonisms between the ethnic
Ukrainians in the west, including elements that had supported Adolf Hitler's
invasion of the Soviet Union during World War Two, and ethnic Russians in the
south and east who feared the anti-Russian sentiments emanating from Kiev.

First, in Crimea and then in the so-called Donbas region, these ethnic
Russians, who had been Yanukovych's political base, resisted what they viewed
as the illegitimate overthrow of their elected president. Both areas held
referenda seeking separation from Ukraine, a move that Russia accepted in
Crimea but resisted with the Donbas.

However, when the Kiev regime announced an "anti-terrorism operation" against
the Donbas and dispatched neo-Nazi and other extremist militias to be the tip
of the spear, Moscow began quietly assisting the embattled ethnic Russian
rebels, a move that Nuland, the Obama administration and the mainstream news
media called "Russian aggression."

Amid the Western hysteria over Russia's supposedly "imperial designs" and the
thorough demonizing of Putin, President Barack Obama essentially authorized a
new Cold War against Russia, reflected now in new U.S. strategic planning
that could cost the U.S. taxpayers trillions of dollars and risk a possible
nuclear confrontation.

Yet, despite the extraordinary costs and dangers, Nuland failed to appreciate
the practical on-the-ground realities, much as her husband and other neocons
did in Iraq. While Nuland got her hand-picked client Yatsenyuk installed and
he did oversee a U.S.-demanded "neo-liberal" economic plan - slashing
pensions, heating assistance and other social programs - the chaos that her
"regime change" unleashed transformed Ukraine into a financial black hole.

With few prospects for a clear-cut victory over the ethnic Russian resistance
in the east - and with the neo-Nazi/Islamist militias increasingly restless
over the stalemate - the chances to restore any meaningful sense of order in
the country appear remote. Unemployment is soaring and the government is
essentially bankrupt.

The last best hope for some stability may have been the Minsk-2 agreement in
February 2015, calling for a federalized system to give the Donbas more
autonomy, but Nuland's Prime Minister Yatsenyuk sabotaged the deal in March
by inserting a poison pill <http://bit.ly/1LPY9rU> that essentially demanded
that the ethnic Russian rebels first surrender.

Now, the Ukraine chaos threatens to spiral even further out of control with
the neo-Nazis and other right-wing militias - supplied with a bounty weapons
to kill ethnic Russians in the east - turning on the political leadership in
Kiev.

In other words, the neocons have struck again, dreaming up a "regime change"
scheme that ignored practical realities, such as ethnic and religious
fissures. Then, as the blood flowed and the suffering worsened, the neocons
just sought out someone else to blame.

Thus, it seems unlikely that Nuland, regarded by some in Washington as the
new "star" in U.S. foreign policy, will be fired for her dangerous
incompetence, just as most neocons who authored the Iraq disaster remain
"respected" experts employed by major think tanks, given prized space on
op-ed pages, and consulted at the highest levels of the U.S. government.

[For more on these topics, see Consortiumnews.com's "Obama's True Foreign
Policy Weakness" <http://bit.ly/1HZdiWr> and "A Family Business of Perpetual
War." <http://bit.ly/1MZut90>]

Investigative reporter Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories for
The Associated Press and Newsweek in the 1980s. You can buy his latest book,
America's Stolen Narrative, either in print here <http://bit.ly/1e1Bae7> or
as an e-book (from Amazon <http://amzn.to/1NgNymN> and barnesandnoble.com
<http://bit.ly/1QNY0rx>). You also can order Robert Parry's trilogy on the
Bush Family and its connections to various right-wing operatives for only
$34. The trilogy includes America's Stolen Narrative. For details on this
offer, click here <http://bit.ly/1BJMEy9>.

Pelican

unread,

Jul 14, 2015, 4:20:43 AM7/14/15

to

"Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru> wrote in message
news:mo2e7a$he0$1...@os.motzarella.org...

> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/>
>
> The Mess that Nuland Made
>
> July 13, 2015
>
> Exclusive:

Standard bullshit Russian propaganda, but not exclusive.

Oleg Smirnov

unread,

Jul 14, 2015, 4:48:26 AM7/14/15

to

Pelican, <news:mo2h8e$ra2$1...@dont-email.me>

> "Oleg Smirnov" <ve...@gde.ru> wrote in message

>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/>
>>
>> The Mess that Nuland Made
>>
>> July 13, 2015
>>
>> Exclusive:
>

> Standard bullshit Russian propaganda, but not exclusive.

You can't cope with / just don't want to
know facts, so you have to sheepishly repeat
the 'Russian propaganda' mantra.

george152

unread,

Jul 14, 2015, 3:58:01 PM7/14/15

to

On 14/07/2015 7:38 p.m., Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/>
>
> The Mess that Nuland Made

It stops being a mess when Russia goes back behind their own borders.

Oleg Smirnov

unread,

Jul 17, 2015, 6:51:11 AM7/17/15

to

Subcarpathian Russia (a.k.a. Transkarpatia) is a peculiar region where a
part of the natives for centuries is dreaming about independence (eg.
<http://archive.is/etZug>). In addition to that, 15 - 20% of the regional
population are ethnic Hungarians, many of them have passports of Hungary
(read about how Mukachevo / Munkács is linked to Hungary's history eg. here
<http://bit.ly/1gF1bS8>). Bulling of the 'patriotic' Ukrainian neo-Nazi
freaks is the last thing the people of the region would see at their home.

<http://nepszava.hu/cikk/1063420-karpataljat-is-elerte-a-tuzharc-es-a-feszultseg>

It's becoming more difficult the Kiev government to cope with the Ukrainian
extremists that openly armed corps refuse to surrender. The weekend firefight
that broke out in Mukachevo indicates that the Ukrainian war is now on two
fronts. The pro-Russian separatists in the east, and the extreme paramilitary
units in the west are now both the opponents of the Petro Porosenko regime.
.. The Right Sector has become independent, its members don't obey military
command, they rather try to define themselves as a self-policing force. ..

...

Yet anther interest Hungarian reading.

<http://budapestbeacon.com/public-policy/hungary-to-invest-in-espionage/25189>

Hungary to upgrade its espionage capabilities

JULY 12, 2015 BY BENJAMIN NOVAK

The massive reorganization at Hungary's "Information Office", the country's
non-military intelligence gathering agency, is finished. The next big
reorganization will take place at the Constitutional Protection Office,
Hungary's counter-intelligence agency.

In June, the Hungarian parliament's national security heard testimony from
high-ranking members of the country's clandestine services, including the
minister responsible for civilian intelligence ..

The Information Office

János Lázár, the Information Office's quasi-director, said reorganization at
the civilian intelligence gathering agency has finally ended. Until 2010,
intelligence gathering and counter-intelligence operations were overseen by
the Prime Minister's Office and a minister-without-portfolio. In 2010,
responsibility for these activities was transferred to the foreign ministry.
The change caused a number of problems. The unplanned mixing of diplomacy and
spying supposedly did not work out so well for the foreign ministry, and
responsibility for overseeing the country's spy service was transferred to
the Prime Minister's Office, now led by János Lázár.

Lázár said that Hungary's spy service was in poor condition prior to 2010
because "instead of carrying out deep intelligence gathering, its top
activity had become hasty analysis". But this has changed over the past five
years, Lázár said. ..

Regional security

He cited the Russian-Ukrainian conflict as a primary example of radical
changes to security in the region over the past year. Hungary shares borders
with a country engaged in an armed conflict. According to Lázár, Hungarian
spies have been active in Kiev, just like the spies of other regional
neighbors, to ensure that political leaders are able to promote Hungary's
interests.

He also stated that the government and the Information Office are convinced
that the future of Hungarians living in the Transcarpathia (southwestern
Ukraine) will be a serious issue in the coming decade, and that the
Information Office is carrying out operations to protect Hungarian citizens
in the Carpathian Basin. These operations are the first in twenty-five years
in which the Hungarian government is openly undertaking activities in Ukraine
in total opposition to the wishes of the Ukrainian government. Ukraine's
foreign ministry is doing what it can to stop Hungary's spies and Hungarian
diplomats from undertaking operations in Ukraine, Lázár said.

Lázár: United States may be behind Romania's persecution of ethnic Hungarians

Lázár transitioned from the situation in Ukraine to what is happening in
Romania. He said Romanian authorities are charging ethnic Hungarians living
in the country with "conceptional crimes". ..

Brussels isn't our friend and the situation can get worse, so we need more
spies in there

Lázár said he has ordered the Information Office to ramp up its activities
with respect to Hungary's relationship with the European Union. He said
Hungary would never spy on its allies as the United States has done, but that
it is important Hungary be informed about how decisions are being made at the
EU level. ..

Unabridged text is here <http://bit.ly/1V9RniO>.

DVH

unread,

Jul 17, 2015, 6:54:22 AM7/17/15

to

On 17/07/2015 11:51, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
> Subcarpathian Russia (a.k.a. Transkarpatia) is a peculiar region where a
> part of the natives for centuries is dreaming about independence

Putin had better invade.

Oleg Smirnov

unread,

Jul 17, 2015, 7:40:29 AM7/17/15

to

More Czech thoughts.

<http://tinyurl.com/qa7cusg> Parliamentary News

The EU faces the same fate as the ancient Egypt ..

Under the guise of protecting human rights and European values, promotion
of democracy etc, the more developed countries try to subjugate those
that are less developed, they determine what is right for them, and forcing
them to do what they would never do voluntarily. This disharmony takes a
lot of energy, - the costs are higher than benefits from their parasitism
on the weaker countries. Bureaucracy has already reached such an extent
that I expect that we will determine the monthly quota for toilet paper,
and those who exceed it will be fined. Those who really control the world
economy are certainly aware, and they are preparing for collapse of the EU.

We (ie. the Czechs) will be in good company with France, Italy, Austria, and
Slovakia. Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria chose a different path, - the NATO
bases on their territory will not allow independent development even after
the breakup of the EU. Germany is not yet decided what it wants. The rest of
the world follows better economic way. Look at BRICS.

The media may try to make our citizens believe that the EU is the navel of
the universe, but unfortunately it is not, the world clearly goes in another
direction, and the recent behavior of traditional US's partners shows that.

Full interview <http://bit.ly/1CL4HnY>

Oleg Smirnov

unread,

Jul 19, 2015, 12:18:52 PM7/19/15

to

<https://archive.is/89olH> euromaidanpress.com

Former Russian Intel Officer Predicts Putin's Fall ..
- When do you expect Putin's regime to fall?
- Exactly in a year. Call me on July 23, 2015, I'll pour
some peppered horylka, take a piece of salo and give you
the answer.

...

Just a couple of days remains before Putin's fall.

Hold your breath.

Oleg Smirnov

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Aug 3, 2015, 5:36:46 AM8/3/15

to

<http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/july/31/monsters-of-ukraine-made-in-the-usa/>

Monsters of Ukraine: Made in the USA

written by justin raimondo friday july 31, 2015

.. Remember Ukraine? I seem to recall blaring headlines <http://bit.ly/1VWkoPn>
about a supposedly "imminent" <http://read.bi/1MH9wC2> and "massive"
<http://bit.ly/1KoH0zs> Russian invasion of that country: the Anglo-Saxon media
was ablaze <http://bit.ly/1SUUveF> with a veritable countdown to D-Day
<http://bit.ly/1pmdyoq> and we were treated to ominous sightings
<http://bit.ly/1KoH0zs> of Russian troops and tanks gathering at the border
<http://on.wsj.com/1JH4Rye>, allegedly just awaiting the order from Putin to take
Kiev. And it turns out there has been an invasion, of sorts - although it isn't a
Russian one. It's the Kiev regime's own foot-soldiers returning from the front
and turning on their masters.

The war is going badly <http://reut.rs/1A5W57E> for the government of oligarch
Petro Poroshenko <http://bit.ly/1K0DZVA>. The east Ukrainians, who rose in revolt
<http://bit.ly/1ibJJC6> after the US-sponsored coup <http://bit.ly/1KLbSiV> threw
out democratically elected <http://bit.ly/1l3coey> President Viktor Yanukovych,
show no signs <http://bbc.in/1ITmnAr> of giving up: they've repulsed
<http://bloom.bg/1eMZMr9> the "anti-terrorist" campaign launched by Kiev,
withstanding relentless bombardment <http://bbc.in/1uMYaEd> of their cities and
enduring many thousands of casualties <http://reut.rs/1N3KsSO>, not to mention
widespread destruction. Indeed, the brutal protracted war waged by Kiev against
its own "citizens" has arguably steeled the rebels' resolve and made any thought
of reconciliation unthinkable.

As is usual with violent fanatics, the war aims of the Kiev coup leaders - to
bring the eastern provinces back into the fold - have been rendered impossible by
their methods and conduct. The de facto blockade imposed on the east has bound
the separatists all the more tightly to Russia <http://on.wsj.com/1LXa46T>, and
so economics as well as searing hatred of a government the easterners regard as
"fascist" has sealed the country's fate.

Unable to crack the rebels' resolve, the "revolutionaries" who once gathered in
the Maiden have begun to turn on each other. .. A standoff <http://bit.ly/1e174qV>
between the Right Sector militia and Ukrainian police the other day culminated in
a pitched battle as the rightists attacked police positions in Mukachevo, in
western Ukraine .. The big problem <http://bit.ly/1aIkXJA> for the Kiev regime is
that Right Sector and allied far-rightist militias are the core of their military
operation against the east. ..

Mired in debt <http://on.ft.com/1KLnOyc>, and rapidly sinking into an economic
abyss <http://bit.ly/1IeglqL>, Ukraine is literally coming apart at the seams -
and the ugly underside <http://bit.ly/1cDBfxz> of the Maiden "revolution" is being
exposed to the light of day. The most recent atrocity is the uncovering of a
torture chamber used by members of the "Tornado" Battalion, another far-right
grouping, in which militia members kidnapped, tortured, raped, and robbed citizens
in the eastern Luhansk region ..

The Aidar Battalion <http://bit.ly/1e7USpl>, also operating in eastern Ukraine,
has been accused by Amnesty International of committing war crimes .. Then there's
the openly neo-Nazi Azov Brigade <http://bit.ly/1BsjgrK>, whose members sport
fascist symbols from the World War II era, and whose leader, Andriy Biletsky,
declares that the goal of his group is to "lead the White Races of the world ..

Yes, your tax dollars are going to arm, train, and feed neo-Nazis in Ukraine.
That's what we bought into when Washington decided to launch a regime change
operation in that bedraggled corner of southeastern Europe. ..

...

Read it in full <http://bit.ly/1VWmTBe>

jonathan

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Aug 3, 2015, 2:43:10 PM8/3/15

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Aug 5, 2015, 7:47:59 AM8/5/15

to

> More Czech thoughts.

<http://neviditelnypes.lidovky.cz/evropa-lieber-rot-als-tot-i-d08-/p_zahranici.aspx?c=A150802_205520_p_zahranici_wag>

Better Putin rather than Muslim

The Great Britain should not have been meddling into the WW1, it had to wait
until Germany win, then the Germans would found the European Union 40 years
earlier, and Britain would not be a small island ..

But then, there would be no Czechoslovakia and WW2, and the half a century of
the Soviets. Then, we would not experience the heady November 1989, but there
would be no the immigrants here, too. The latter is now proving to be a big
problem. Not the refugees as such, but namely the 'arabized' Muslims are a
problem. They are hateful to our culture, generally. .. Optimists among us
believe that eventually we will be in the position of the Christians in the
Ottoman Empire. Go ask the Bulgarians or Serbs about how it was in practice.

...

The writer points out that there's a growing frustration among the Czech
public about the current EU elites ("all those environmentalists, genderists
and human-rightists") and their policies, as well as people consider the huge
flow of refugees a natural consequence of American globalist / interventionist
foreign policy: support for the 'color revolutions', the 'Arab Spring' etc.

With that, more Czechs see Russia an alternative to the Atlanticist insanity.
".. People are looking for a way out. .. media observers noticed in the
internet an increasingly growing number of supporters of Russia and Putin.
That is despite the fact that the Russians have taken Crimea. Or maybe that's
due to this fact."

"The media barrage against Russia and Putin begins to be counterproductive. At
least 50% of people in Europe disagree with the fact that the only causer of
the situation in Ukraine is Russia." Obama's perfidious policy against East
European states .. led to criminalization of governance, and in combination
with the EU it led to the situation that people are extraordinary dissatisfied
with bureaucratic bullshit. "It's unbelievable what the US foreign policy for
twenty-five years could produce from the friendly countries, the countries
that welcomed US and the West as their patrons." Now a large part of the
population is changing their moods. And the elitist jerks in the EU also could
sicken the entire Union in the eyes of its residents. One can consider that
an extraordinary political result, - in the negative sense.

> More Czech thoughts.

<http://czechfreepress.cz/ladislav-kasuka/nakonec-mozna-budeme-pred-imigranty-v-obavach-o-sve-hole-zivoty-utikat-do-ruska.html>

Eventually we'll likely run to Russia, fleeing from the immigrants

.. Honestly I'm not sure is still there a way to prevent the approaching end
of our European civilization. Everything that has been built and defended by
our heroic ancestors may be destroyed soon ..
In the end, there can really come a day when most of normal, not so rich
Europeans, will flee to Russian Federation (the wealthy are likely to have
already negotiated asylum in the US) and ask this great country for help and
acceptance. Russia is the last large powerful European country that is not in
the EU. It does not need to obey orders from Brussels crazies (which in turn
obey orders of other crazies in Washington) and that alone have enough space
(if they allow) for many people to accept them, and is has large and powerful
army to make its citizens protected against chaos and desolation ..

...

Of course one should not understand literally these expressive Czech appeals.
They are far from to be going to change their current Atlanticist master and
go to Russia's embraces. They are just blackmailing the Atlanticist master.

The East European societies are extremely nationalist, their people are not
accustomed to tolerate the 'alien' foreigners to such extent as, say, French
or British ones were accustomed to do that.

> <http://tinyurl.com/qa7cusg> Parliamentary News
>
> The EU faces the same fate as the ancient Egypt ..
>
> Under the guise of protecting human rights and European values, promotion of
> democracy etc, the more developed countries try to subjugate those
> that are less developed, they determine what is right for them, and forcing
> them to do what they would never do voluntarily. This disharmony takes a
> lot of energy, - the costs are higher than benefits from their parasitism

> on the weaker countries. ..

jonathan

unread,

Aug 5, 2015, 7:59:03 AM8/5/15

to

I'm trying to figure out how to pay 200,000 protesters
and keep it secret. But they must have been paid, the
idea the people of Ukraine had anything to be upset about
is so absurd.

No wait a minute, I take that all back, it was all
an American conspiracy, America controls everything
and everyone like puppets.

And don't you forget it~

s

>

Yet more evidence the American policy makers are living in a virtual reality.

<http://tinyurl.com/nuzywbm> nytimes.com

U.S.' Billions Fail to Sustain Foreign Forces

WASHINGTON - With alarming frequency in recent years, thousands of
American-trained security forces in the Middle East, North Africa and South
Asia have collapsed, stalled or defected, calling into question the
effectiveness of the tens of billions of dollars spent by the United States on
foreign military training programs ..

...

And the far the more the US foreign policy becomes destructive.

<http://tinyurl.com/psogw48> nationalinterest.org

The Destructive U.S.-Backed Campaign in Yemen

...

Oleg Smirnov

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Oct 4, 2015, 1:25:59 AM10/4/15

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<http://time.com/4058520/american-military-losing-wars/>

Why the U.S. Military Isn't Winning

.. In June 2014, the Islamic State of Iraq and Greater Syria swept
through Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, and drove out the Iraqi
forces that the U.S. had spent $20 billion training and equipping. Last
May, they did much the same in Ramadi, the capital of Iraq's Anbar
Province. This week, the Taliban-the Islamic fundamentalists running
Afghanistan who sheltered Osama bin Laden as his lieutenants plotted
the 9/11 attacks-retook the northern Afghan city of Kunduz after the
U.S. invested $60 billion building Afghanistan's military. It marked the
first time the Taliban have taken a provincial capital since 2001.
.. Such efforts only make the U.S. look feckless, when the original rosy
projections bear little resemblance to what's left behind. ..

...

It's not just 'the U.S. Military isn't winning', the entire agenda of
American foreign policy is failed. It's driven by delusions and baser
instincts covered with hypocritical 'democracy' rants and brazen lies.
The American policy makers are like a drug addict living in a virtual
reality that feels good as far as he / she remains on drugs (the false
narratives in the MSM and the 'group think'), but sooner or later the
real reality would come and bite the junkie.

> <http://tinyurl.com/nuzywbm> nytimes.com
>
> U.S.' Billions Fail to Sustain Foreign Forces

Oleg Smirnov

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Oct 4, 2015, 5:25:30 PM10/4/15

to

In response to speculations of the American scribblers about alleged Russian
'dumb bombs' in Syria the Russian ministry of defense issued a clarification.
They say the main weapon the aircraft uses in Syria is Kh-29 missile with
laser guidance system. In regular design its CEP is about 4 meters when it is
launched from maximum range (~ 13 km), and declared less than 2 meters when
launched from a distance of 5 km and less. They say it is a reliable and
proven machine. Afaiu the main disadvantage of the precision laser guidance
against more advanced systems is usually related to weather conditions. It is
still not the typical case for places like Syria.

<http://tinyurl.com/pkw26b9> sott.net

Western warmongers killed 1.5 million Muslims in 'war on terror'; falsely
accuse Russia of '30 civilian casualties' in airstrikes against ISIS

Joe Quinn Fri, 02 Oct 2015 18:37 UTC

.. Comparing recent BBC headlines with BBC headlines from 4 years ago when
NATO obliterated several cities in Libya, you could be forgiven for thinking
that BBC journalists and editors have only now realised that bombs kill
people, in particular Russian bombs (the British, French and American variety
only ever killing 'bad guys' with 'pin-point accuracy').

Four years ago, not a word, much less a headline, was carried by Western
newspapers about the slaughter of the people of Sirte by NATO war planes. The
information was available, they just failed to report it.

In a call from a satellite phone to Reuters' office in Tunis on Saturday 17th
September 2011, Libyan politician Moussa Ibrahim said <http://bit.ly/1iWMdI8>:

"NATO attacked the city of Sirte last night with more than 30 rockets
directed at the city's main hotel and the Tamin building, which consists of
more than 90 residential flats.

"The result is more than 354 dead and 89 still missing and almost 700
injured in one night."

"In the last 17 days more than 2,000 residents of the city of Sirte were
killed in NATO air strikes."

But U.S., British and French slaughter of civilians in Libya pales into
relative insignificance when compared to the overall death toll from the last
12 years of the U.S.-led 'war on terror'.

Washington's Middle East Mass Murder

The best academic estimates <http://bit.ly/1DFxwl3> on the number of civilians
killed in the illegal U.S.-led wars on the Iraqi, Afghani and Pakistani
peoples amount to at least 1.5 million as a direct result of Western military
action of one form or another. Several million more deaths can be added when
indirect deaths are included. At least 20 million more have been displaced
from their homes.

As some may remember, Washington's 'war on terror' was justified by the 9/11
attacks, which were blamed on "al-qaeda", which the U.S. government initially
claimed to be fighting but is now funding (along with other terrorists)
against the Syrian government <http://bit.ly/1Eyqhxa>. ..

Syria's Phony Revolution

Despite what Western governments would like us to believe, the beginning of
the 'Syrian revolution' in 2011 did not involve a mass uprising of ordinary
Syrian people. It involved relatively small anti-government demonstrations
<http://bit.ly/1M9KshZ> and extremely large pro-government rallies. These
were, however, quickly overshadowed by violent attacks on demonstrators,
Syrian police and government buildings by well-equipped groups that were
trained and armed by Western military and intelligence forces stationed in
Jordan, Iraq and Turkey <http://bit.ly/1L8L7Q7>.

Since then, the "war" in Syria has been waged, not by the Syrian people, but
by groups of foreign mercenaries shipped into the country and controlled by
US, Turkish, Qatari and Saudi state actors. In 2012, even UN Secretary General
Ban Ki Moon acknowledged <http://bit.ly/1j8oTI0> that 'al-Qaeda' were behind
the many car bombings that killed so many innocent Syrians. What Ban might not
be aware of is that at least one of the massacres attributed to Assad was
carried out by a 'security contractor' paid directly by the U.S. government
<http://bit.ly/1j8oSnt>.

The U.S. government and its Middle East allies have spent the last 4 years
waging a vicious proxy war on the Syrian people because they chose the wrong
President. But why was Assad the 'wrong choice'? Back in 2002 Assad - a
long-term supporter of Palestinian rights and critic of Israeli terrorism -
and his wife paid a state visit to the UK, where Assad held talks with war
criminal Tony Blair and tolerated an audience with the Queen at Buckingham
palace. British officials at the time were also considering honoring Assad
with a knighthood http://thetim.es/1M2ltgF. ..

Read in full here <http://tinyurl.com/pkw26b9>

...

Oleg Smirnov

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Oct 11, 2015, 6:06:03 AM10/11/15

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Here comes the idea that the Atlanticist the most top elite groups must be
practicing cannibalism or something like that, as a means to provide the most
strong interdependence and unity of their members.

<http://tinyurl.com/ohf6xet> foreignpolicy.com

<http://www.robfahey.co.uk/blog/the-pm-the-pig-and-musings-on-power/>

.. The danger to Cameron is that PigGate makes him a laughing-stock - that his
seriousness as a political leader will be forever deflated by the cat calls
and innuendo that will, undoubtedly, follow him for the rest of his life. .. I
don't know if this kind of story, once attached to the person of a politician,
ever goes away. .. It is clearly a calculated attack. ..

And here, I think, is something much bigger and more interesting than the
details of Cameron's vivid indiscretion; here is a rare public example of how
power is wielded by Britain's elite, of how control is exerted over those they
wish to manipulate, and of how those groomed for success from a young age can
be destroyed should they be seen to diverge from the steps they're told to
dance.

Initiation ceremonies or "hazing" rituals - often of a painful, humiliating,
transgressive, or sexual nature - are a well-documented part of the culture of
many organizations run by and for young men, especially those in positions of
privilege or at elite institutions. Hazing is a fixture, albeit usually in a
less extreme form than many might imagine, of Greek life at U.S. colleges;
initiation rituals are relatively common in elite societies at top educational
institutions elsewhere. Such rituals are an especially important part of
groups that require extreme discipline, such as certain military units. The
primary social function served by these rituals is to accelerate and deepen
the bonds shared by members of the group - and the sense of loyalty to the
group each person holds. By committing transgressive acts together, members
develop a sense of sharing in a mutual secret, thus creating trust; by
overcoming some humiliation or pain, new members deepen their commitment to
the group. Their internal logic reasons that if they are willing to endure
such an ordeal, it must mean that the group is important and deserving of
loyalty (otherwise, they would have made a terrible mistake and gone through
all of that suffering for nothing). Through these acts, bonds are forged,
networks established; the "old school tie," used as a metaphor for Britain's
elite networks, is also a metaphor for the actions and rituals, transgressive
or otherwise, which created these networks during their members' formative
years. ..

This system is self-sustaining and decentralized. It's in the interest of
people in the group to promote the careers of their fellow group members,
precisely because they have control through their knowledge of that person's
transgressive acts; similarly, it's in the interest of that person to promote
the careers of the other members for the same reason.
.. The more horrifying and illegal the act committed, the more the network
"owns" its members. ..

...

<http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/>

Burning money in front of a homeless person isn't just intended to be a nasty
prank, it serves to train a Bullingdon boy's senses, to make other humans seem
somehow less. That David Cameron and his allies George Osborne and Boris
Johnson have all done this, and that they have all presided over a sharp spike
in homelessness in London and throughout the UK, are not coincidental. The MP
who provided Lord Ashcroft with the details of the pig story attended one
meeting of the expensive club but left in disgust because 'it was all about
despising poor people'. ..

The pig scandal that now has the world laughing at Cameron wasn't from the
Bullingdon Club but the Piers Gaverston, less well-known (until this week),
but with a reputation for bizarre sexual rituals and initiation rites. Where
the Bullingdon boys built their fraternity around shared values of hating the
poor, the Piers Gaverston was about sexual humiliation and the creation of
shared secrets. Its structural function is as an agreement of mutually assured
destruction between the rulers of tomorrow - I know your secret and you know
mine, so let's stay on the same side, yeah? ..

And David Cameron himself often likes to talk about the supposed existence of
meritocracy in the United Kingdom. He, too, went to Eton before joining the
Bullingdon Club and the Piers Gaverston. He is one of the most vocal
Conservatives when it comes to championing the ideology of meritocracy,
telling poor people and ethnic minorities that their lack of social climbing
is because they lack "aspiration", and that 'free' markets (that is,
unregulated financial bonanzas, by his allegiances) "can make you a better
person".

Separate from what he says, however, his government has significantly
increased inequality and decreased social mobility, making it even harder for
people outside of his privileged background to fulfill the meritocratic values
he regularly trumpets. ..

Oleg Smirnov

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Nov 13, 2015, 12:59:08 AM11/13/15

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<http://tinyurl.com/qjxrhbl> journal-neo.org

Cameron Establishes "Total Control" Over UK Citizens

Martin Berger 04.11.2015

In the 21st century the political scene of most Western countries has been
heavily dominated by oligarchs and their obedient puppets who are desperate to
corrode the rule of law and radically restrict the personal freedoms of local
residents. This process has been significantly aggravated by the tragic events
of 9/11 and the severe financial crisis that followed the collapse of Lehmann
Brothers in 2008. According to one of the leading advisers to President
Obama - Rahm Emanuel "it would be a shame not to take advantage of such a
situation." <http://migre.me/s5aYK>

The notorious Patriot Act has given the US government the right to spy on its
citizens, along with extending the privileges that the FBI and other national
intelligence services enjoy. It has been widely regarded as a straight-out
transformation of so-called "American democracy" into a sort of authoritarian
regime in blunt violation of the rights that the Fourth Amendment of the US
Constitution granted American citizens. Even though the Patriot Act has
recently been replaced by the so-called Freedom Act, the outrageous violations
of US citizens' human rights continues.

This US example has produced an indelible impression on the politicians of
nearly every other Western country that now are beginning to tighten control
over their own citizens in turn.

For instance, France's Prime Minister Manuel Valls has recently presented the
Council of Ministers with a draft of the French Patriotic Act. In fact he
proposed to provide security services with access to previously forbidden
methods - the right to spy on one's citizens on the Internet. To pass this law
that has been labeled as a "direct interference in private life"
<http://is.gd/b4d6GO> by certain political forces, the ruling party has been
actively exploiting the Charlie Hebdo attack along with the recent terrorist
attacks in Tunisia.

British Conservatives have approached this issue more thoroughly. In recent
years they have rallied for a major push against civil right under the guise
of "the growing terrorist and extremist threat." ..

Read more <http://bit.ly/1NJoK9V>

> <http://tinyurl.com/ohf6xet>
> <http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/>
> .. Burning money in front of a homeless person isn't just intended to be a

> nasty prank, it serves to train a Bullingdon boy's senses, to make other

> humans seem somehow less. ..

Oleg Smirnov

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Feb 25, 2016, 4:04:34 AM2/25/16

to

<http://tinyurl.com/zb23h3v> iol.co.za

US embassy fuelling regime change - Gwede

JONISAYI MAROMO / 20 February 2016

ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe set off a social media frenzy yesterday
when he charged that clandestine meetings, promoting regime change in South
Africa, were being held regularly at the US embassy in Pretoria.

"As we mobilise our people, we must say, be vigilant. You must see through
anarchy and people who are out there in a programme of regime change. We are
aware of the meetings taking place regularly at the American embassy,"
Mantashe told tens of thousands of ANC supporters at the Union Buildings in
Pretoria.

"Those meetings in the embassy are about nothing else other than mobilisation
for regime change. We're aware of a programme that takes young people to the
United States for six weeks, brings them back and plants them everywhere in
the campuses and everywhere." ..

...

There are responses to this statement in the (pro-)American media trying to
present the politician as a paranoid clown. But it is still hardly a paranoia
from a rational perspective. Taking into account the ANC's agenda (see the
link below) and the known addiction of the American policymakers to make evil
under guise of liberation and democracy it is not unlikely that the S.African
elected government risks of being subjected to the American 'regime change'
execution.

> <http://www.anc.org.za/docs/umrabulo/2015/ngc_disc_docsy.pdf>

Siri Cruz

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Feb 25, 2016, 5:34:33 AM2/25/16

to

In article <namftd$9rh$2...@os.motzarella.org>, "Oleg Smirnov" <os...@netc.eu>
wrote:

> "Those meetings in the embassy are about nothing else other than mobilisation
> for regime change. We're aware of a programme that takes young people to the
> United States for six weeks, brings them back and plants them everywhere in
> the campuses and everywhere." ..

https://youngafricanleaders.state.gov/washington-fellowship/

The Mandela Washington Fellowship for Young African Leaders,
begun in 2014, is the flagship program of President Obamaąs
Young African Leaders Initiative (YALI) that empowers young
people through academic coursework, leadership training, and
networking. In 2016, the Fellowship will provide 1,000
outstanding young leaders from Sub-Saharan Africa with the
opportunity to hone their skills at a U.S. higher education
institution with support for professional development after
they return home.

Since this is about overthrowing South Africa, I'm sure the programme and its
details are MOST SECRET. I was only able to find this site through my elite
hacking skills.

> There are responses to this statement in the (pro-)American media trying to
> present the politician as a paranoid clown. But it is still hardly a paranoia

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2016-02-23-analysis-mantashes-conspiracy-t
heories/#.Vs7VpEvF_wI

Last week Friday, the African National Congress marched against
racism and they handed over a memorandum that was essentially
from themselves to themselves, calling on themselves to prevent
themselves and other selves from doing such things to all their selves.

Around the climax of this curiously omphaloskeptic endeavour,
the partyąs secretary general, none other than Gwede Mantashe,
rose to inform the crowd about how best to combat racism.

Daily Maverick is South Africa source which means they are not African. Since
you don't like what they're saying, that makes them pro-American. Actually I've
never heard of the Daily Maverick or Mantashe before, but given your history, I
know I can trust everything you claim.

> from a rational perspective. Taking into account the ANC's agenda (see the
> link below) and the known addiction of the American policymakers to make evil
> under guise of liberation and democracy it is not unlikely that the S.African

Does anyone in the US give a shit about RSA? Is there going to be another Gods
Must Be Crazy movie?

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted.
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'
God exists since mathematics is consistent, and the devil exists since we
cannot prove the consistency. ~~ Morris Kline

Oleg Smirnov

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Mar 12, 2016, 12:20:26 PM3/12/16

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<http://tinyurl.com/zpqoh7o> UA domestic news <http://archive.is/ekYi2>

Recent Ukraine MoD's report states that despite the fact that the
government in Kiev had established ban to the Ukrainian military and
navy servicemen on visits to 'occupied' Crimea, it turned out in the
2015, that a large part of the Ukrainian Navy officers preferred to
spend their vacation in Crimea.

In 2015, 155 naval officers visited Crimea under fictional pretexts.
In addition to that in 2015 and 2016, 650 servicemen deserted from
the Navy, so far only 130 of them returned back. High naval command
hides the facts of the AWOLs from reporting and doesn't try to prevent
visits of their officers to Crimea.

In the February-March 2014, at the time when the Crimeans voted for
reunion with Russia, about 70-80% of the servicemen in Crimea (navy,
naval avia, marines etc) switched to serve in the Russian army.

> <http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/3561937-na-perekope-zaderzhan-esche-odyn-ukraynskyi-voennyi>
>
> .. new trend in Crimea: Ukrainian military servicemen cross the border
> and come to Russian borderguards in Crimea 'to chat and drink'. A few
> such cases recently. Crimean authorities were worried and conducted an
> investigation whether may it be a sly cover or diversionary activities,
> but nothing of the sort was discovered.

Oleg Smirnov

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Nov 11, 2016, 6:35:18 AM11/11/16

to

2015-10-04, <news:muqd5d$7d4$3...@os.motzarella.org>

> The American policy makers are like a drug addict living in a virtual
> reality that feels good as far as he / she remains on drugs (the false
> narratives in the MSM and the 'group think'), but sooner or later the real
> reality would come and bite the junkie.

<http://tinyurl.com/om6ofu2> antiwar.com

Trump's Revolution

Now beware the counter-revolution

Justin Raimondo | November 09, 2016

.. Their problem is that these people live in a bubble: the conservative
writer Mollie Hemingway tweeted <http://archive.is/ZMvJz> the night of the
election that " I was at a small DC dinner several weeks ago where several
people said they knew not a single Trump supporter. I was like, 'I know
100s.'"

This evokes the famous Pauline Kael quote, who is reputed to have responded to
Richard Nixon's 1972 landslide victory by saying: "I don't know how Nixon won.
I don't know anybody who voted for him." Actually, the acerbic film critic
didn't say that, exactly. What she really said <http://tinyurl.com/jkfp2xa>
was far more telling:

"I live in a rather special world. I only know one person who voted for
Nixon. Where they are I don't know. They're outside my ken. But sometimes
when I'm in a theater I can feel them."

This puts it succinctly: the inhabitants of the "special world" of the
political class - self-satisfied pundits, self-serving politicians, avaricious
hedge fund managers, arrogant academics, less-than-thoughtful thinktankers,
politically correct scolds, neoconservative warmongers - couldn't imagine a
world in which Donald Trump could win the White House. They laughed at him
when he announced, they sneered at him even as he was winning the primaries,
and they unleashed more venom than an army of rattlesnakes when he won the
Republican nomination, even as they claimed he was headed for a Goldwater-like
defeat. The American ruling class lives in a world entirely separate from that
of their subjects: even as the peasants with pitchforks gathered in the shadow
of the castle, they never saw the Trumpian revolution coming.

In short, they have no idea why he won because they live on a different planet
than the rest of us. And yet the reason for his victory is very simple, and
it's no secret. He stated it clearly and succinctly in a remarkable television
ad in the final days of the campaign. <https://youtu.be/vST61W4bGm8>

Trump understands that, as I put it in my last column <http://migre.me/vt9u1>,
"The main issue in the world today is globalism versus national sovereignty,
and it is playing out in the politics of countries on every continent." ..

And the epicenter of this global ruling elite is located in Washington, D.C.,
with the White House as the inner sanctum of the whole rotten system. And now
that Fortress of Power has been breached. Thus, the panic of the elites. ..

...

Let us wait and see, - for the Western-style 'democracy' it's the rule rather
than the exception that the presidential candidates forget or significantly
downplay a large part of their promises.

> <http://archive.is/HcThh>
>
> Anti-Americanism Across the Continent

Oleg Smirnov

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Nov 12, 2016, 1:12:40 PM11/12/16

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<http://tinyurl.com/h7ohzgo> washingtonpost.com

'Prediction professor' who called Trump's big win also made another forecast:
Trump will be impeached

Peter W. Stevenson | November 11

Few prognosticators predicted a Donald Trump victory ahead of Tuesday night.
.. But a Washington, D.C.-based professor insisted that Trump was lined up for
a win - based on the idea that elections are "primarily a reflection on the
performance of the party in power." Allan Lichtman uses a historically based
system of what he calls "keys" to predict election results ahead of time. ..

At the end of our September conversation, Lichtman made another call: that if
elected, Trump would eventually be impeached by a Republican Congress that
would prefer a President Mike Pence - someone whom establishment Republicans
know and trust.

"I'm going to make another prediction," he said. ".. They don't want
Trump as president, because they can't control him. He's unpredictable.
They'd love to have Pence - an absolutely down-the-line, conservative,
controllable Republican. And I'm quite certain Trump will give someone
grounds for impeachment .."

...

> <http://tinyurl.com/om6ofu2>

Byker

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Nov 12, 2016, 1:31:22 PM11/12/16

to

"Oleg Smirnov" wrote in message news:o07m1o$4nu$1...@os.motzarella.org...
>
> <http://tinyurl.com/h7ohzgo> washingtonpost.com

>
> if elected, Trump would eventually be impeached by a Republican Congress
> that would prefer a President Mike Pence - someone whom establishment
> Republicans know and trust.

Pence in a just another profession politician whose perception of America
beyond the beltway is about on par with an infant looking through the bars
of its crib...

Andrew Swallow

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Nov 12, 2016, 1:56:01 PM11/12/16

to

On 12/11/2016 18:12, Oleg Smirnov wrote:
{snip}

> "I'm going to make another prediction," he said. ".. They don't want
> Trump as president, because they can't control him. He's unpredictable.
> They'd love to have Pence - an absolutely down-the-line, conservative,
> controllable Republican. And I'm quite certain Trump will give someone
> grounds for impeachment .."

The Republicans do not have to control Trump, they will find they can
make deals with him.

If they want to change the law Republicans will quickly learn that
although the President can present draft laws so can committee chairmen.
The chairman of practically all House and Senate committees is a Republican.

Oleg Smirnov

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Nov 12, 2016, 3:30:47 PM11/12/16

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<http://tinyurl.com/zzxblxn> pewresearch.org

Trump's victory another example of how Electoral College wins are bigger than
popular vote ones

DREW DESILVER | NOVEMBER 9, 2016

For the fifth time in U.S. history, and the second time this century, a
presidential candidate has won the White House while (apparently) losing the
popular vote. ..

Read more <http://tinyurl.com/zzxblxn>

...

It might well be that the US needs an electoral reform, but the speculations
with the post-election numbers are not much credible due to a simple reason:
if the voters knew in advance that the nationwide popular vote matters then
the result of the nationwide popular vote might be different, and it may be
difficult to estimate how and how much it would change the picture. Ie. some
states were clearly pro-Killary and many of the Trump voters in these states
simply didn't bother to vote, and the same about the clearly pro-Trump states.

> <http://tinyurl.com/h7ohzgo>

Oleg Smirnov

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Nov 12, 2016, 8:51:28 PM11/12/16

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<http://tinyurl.com/hq99xak> eurasiareview.com

The Silver Linings In Trump's Win - OpEd

DAVE LINDORFF | NOVEMBER 11, 2016

Let's look on the bright side.

Donald J. Trump is the next president of the United States. His stunning
victory over Hillary Clinton came after he had first crushed the Republican
Party establishment ..

But Trump did more than that. He also, along with Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders,
smashed the Democratic Party establishment too. ..

We know, thanks to principled Democratic Party leaders who quit like Hawaii
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard, the vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, and
to emails leaked by Wikileaks, that the DNC worked assiduously throughout the
primary season to undermine Bernie Sanders' insurgent primary campaign. The
DNC and the Clinton campaign - actually facets of the same malignant
organization - did this by scheduling early debates at times, like during the
Superbowl, when few people would be paying attention, by working with corrupt
mainstream journalists to plant hit pieces on Sanders, resorting to cheap
red-baiting, lying about his history of civil rights activism, and questioning
his mental abilities, and even resorting to voter suppression - usually a
tactic favored more by Republican Party operatives. ..

Hopefully, this highly visible corruption at the top of the Democratic Party
will lead to a real effort to chuck this sclerotic and wholly corrupted
organization and replace it with a genuine party of working people, the poor
and minorities on the left. That long-overdue project needs to begin
immediately.

But back to other silver linings of the Trump presidential win.

Most importantly, it seems likely that we will no longer have to worry about
the US going to war with Russia. While Hillary Clinton, with her stated
desire to establish a "no-fly zone" in Syria that even leading generals said
would mean "war with Russia," Donald Trump throughout the campaign made it
clear that he did not want the US confronting Russia. .. That view, if he is
serious, bodes well for Syrians, and for Ukrainians as well. ..

Ramping down US imperial over-reach, which has caused the deaths of millions
of innocents over the last decade and a half alone, angered nations and people
around the world against the US, and cost Americans over $4.5 trillion since
2001, would be reason enough to cheer Trump's victory. ..

On the economic front, Trump has made it clear that he will oppose the pending
Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) and that he wants to undo or renegotiate
earlier job-killing trade agreements, most notably the North American Free
Trade Agreement (NAFTA). If he is serious about this anti-globalism policy,
and acts on it, it will be a huge victory for working class Americans of all
races, and a huge blow to the Democratic Party, which since the Clinton
presidency has embraced the idea favored by corporate America that shipping
production overseas to cheap labor countries was sound economic policy. Trump
also spoke during the campaign of the need to raise the minimum wage, and in
years past even supported a tax on wealth. If he does either or both of those
things he will be a working class hero. But then, there's no telling whether
he was just campaigning, and will forget these ideas once in power.

Of course, there is no denying that Americans have elected a racist,
misogynist, xenophobic narcissist ..

Read more <http://tinyurl.com/hq99xak>

> <http://tinyurl.com/z9owfkl>
>
> Here's One Reason Why Trump Should Become President: Tulsi Gabbard in 2020

PaxPerPoten

unread,

Nov 12, 2016, 9:44:57 PM11/12/16

to

On 11/12/2016 12:12 PM, Oleg Smirnov wrote:

>
> "I'm going to make another prediction," he said. ".. They don't want
> Trump as president, because they can't control him. He's unpredictable.
> They'd love to have Pence - an absolutely down-the-line, conservative,
> controllable Republican. And I'm quite certain Trump will give someone
> grounds for impeachment .."

Might be the grass roots working voters have a say in that. Wait and
see..That is our motto.

--
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but *They mean to govern*. They promise to
be good masters, *but they mean to be masters*. Daniel Webster

PaxPerPoten

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Nov 12, 2016, 9:45:43 PM11/12/16

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<http://tinyurl.com/jj6ntvs> moonofalabama.org

Why Polls Fail

November 13, 2016

Today I discussed the U.S. election with a friend who studied and practices
statistics. I asked about the failure of the polls in this years presidential
election. Her explanation: The polls are looking at future events but are
biased by the past. The various companies and institutions adjust the polls
they do by looking at their past prognoses and the real results of the past
event. They then develop correcting factors, measured from the past, and apply
it to new polls. If that correcting factor is wrong, possibly because of
structural changes in the electorate, then the new polls will be corrected
with a wrong factor and thus miss the real results.

Polls predicting the last presidential election were probably off by 3 or 5
points towards the Republican side. The pollsters then corrected the new polls
for the Clinton-Trump race in favor of the Democratic side by giving that side
an additional 3-5 points. They thereby corrected the new polls by the bias
that was poll inherent during the last race.

But structural changes, which we seem to have had during this election, messed
up the result. Many people who usually vote for the Democratic ticket did not
vote for Clinton. The "not Clinton" progressives, the "bernie bros" and
"deplorables" who voted Obama in the last election stayed home, voted for a
third party candidate or even for Trump. The pollsters did not anticipate such
a deep change. Thus their correction factor was wrong. Thus the Clinton side
turned out to be favored in polls but not in the relevant votes.

Real polling, which requires in depth-in person interviews with the
participants, does not really happen anymore. It is simply to expensive.
Polling today is largely done by telephone with participants selected by some
database algorithm. It is skewed by many factors which require many
corrections. All these corrections have some biases that do miss structural
changes in the underlying population. ..

...

Besides that, I believe there might be some fraud. Most of what is related to
the present day American sociology / social science is strongly affected by
the cultist 'liberalism' (as well as historical science and other humanitarian
things). The cultists tend to 'adjust' the reality in order to make it look
better fitting to their agenda and delusion.

> <http://tinyurl.com/om6ofu2>