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A simple exercise
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bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 9:45:06 AM6/1/19
to
Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
turn into mass shootings.
Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
turn into mass shootings.
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 10:50:00 AM6/1/19
to
(Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
(Hint: about 34% or so.)
Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
true, naught?
Snit
Jun 1, 2019, 10:57:52 AM6/1/19
to
--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They
cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel
somehow superior by attacking the messenger. They cling to their attacks
and ignore the message time and time again.
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 12:43:11 PM6/1/19
to
On 1 Jun 2019 14:57:50 GMT, in talk.politics.guns Snit
population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993, the US contribution
to the world's civilian gun deaths has increased by almost 1.1% over
the same time period.
All this as they keep telling us that our rate of violence is
declining... that's why public school teachers in the US have to be
armed to hold class... that's why I have to strap on a Glock and put
two expanded capacity magazines in my pocket just to empty the
trash... that's why our churches hold lock-down drills.
<use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>bigdog <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>> Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>> with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>> attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>> that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>> these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>> in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>> turn into mass shootings.
>>
>> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>>
>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>
>> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>> true, naught?
>>
>>
>
>It is true.
The other uncomfortable statistic is that, while our relative
>bigdog <a...@b.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>> Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>> with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>> attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>> that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>> these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>> in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>> turn into mass shootings.
>>
>> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>>
>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>
>> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>> true, naught?
>>
>>
>
>It is true.
population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993, the US contribution
to the world's civilian gun deaths has increased by almost 1.1% over
the same time period.
All this as they keep telling us that our rate of violence is
declining... that's why public school teachers in the US have to be
armed to hold class... that's why I have to strap on a Glock and put
two expanded capacity magazines in my pocket just to empty the
trash... that's why our churches hold lock-down drills.
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 12:53:21 PM6/1/19
to
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 10:50:00 AM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
> >Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
> >with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
> >attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
> >that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
> >these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
> >in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
> >turn into mass shootings.
>
> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>
> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>
> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>
> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>
2/3 of which are suicides.
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
> >Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
> >with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
> >attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
> >that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
> >these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
> >in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
> >turn into mass shootings.
>
> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>
> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>
> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>
> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>
> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
> true, naught?
will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have gun
deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also find countries where guns are plentiful with lower than average gun deaths.
Michael Ejercito
Jun 1, 2019, 1:02:13 PM6/1/19
to
That is why you anti-gun cultists deny it just as surely as Holocaust deniers deny the Wannsee Conference.
Michael
Michael Ejercito
Jun 1, 2019, 1:03:36 PM6/1/19
to
"bigdog" wrote in message
news:e05256c7-7999-43f9...@googlegroups.com...
>On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 10:50:00 AM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in
>> >Virginia
>> >Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker
>> >was met
>> >with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after
>> >the
>> >attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When
>> >you do
>> >that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when
>> >one of
>> >these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most
>> >instances
>> >in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because
>> >those didn't
>> >turn into mass shootings.
>>
>> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>>
>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>
>2/3 of which are suicides.
>> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>> true, naught?
>If you look at all the countries of he world instead of just cherry
>picking, you
>will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have
>gun
>deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also
>find countries where guns are >plentiful with lower than average gun
>deaths.
Michael
---
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max headroom
Jun 1, 2019, 5:38:22 PM6/1/19
to
In news:4s35fedmh3feoqp5r...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again....
Are you equating crime with civilian gun deaths? If so, why?
> ... It seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
> true, naught?
Well, DUH! We got more guns! Most governments won't recognise their citizens' right to keep and bear
arms, and some have even brow-beat their once-noble people into surrendering their guns to their
"benevolent" overlords.
I don't know why ya'll are so concerned with deaths by gunshots and not by overall intentional
homicides. Using that metric, the U.S. is in the middle of the pack at #144 out of 230.
Violent people are the problem, not the instruments used to inflict violence.
Are you equating crime with civilian gun deaths? If so, why?
> ... It seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
> true, naught?
Well, DUH! We got more guns! Most governments won't recognise their citizens' right to keep and bear
arms, and some have even brow-beat their once-noble people into surrendering their guns to their
"benevolent" overlords.
I don't know why ya'll are so concerned with deaths by gunshots and not by overall intentional
homicides. Using that metric, the U.S. is in the middle of the pack at #144 out of 230.
Violent people are the problem, not the instruments used to inflict violence.
benj
Jun 1, 2019, 6:02:23 PM6/1/19
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On 6/1/2019 10:50 AM, Fakebigdog drooled:
I presume as usual you just made up this statistic. If the US has 10x
the murders then it's murder RATE should be 10x everyone else. Oddly
it's solidly in the middle of the pack.
Anyway if all citizens are disarmed as you neomarxists propose, then we
would have to compete with the hundreds of millions murdered in USSSR,
China, Cambodia, etc. Etc. You are a pretty sick puppy. Your fake name
is already a big hint.
the murders then it's murder RATE should be 10x everyone else. Oddly
it's solidly in the middle of the pack.
Anyway if all citizens are disarmed as you neomarxists propose, then we
would have to compete with the hundreds of millions murdered in USSSR,
China, Cambodia, etc. Etc. You are a pretty sick puppy. Your fake name
is already a big hint.
Just Wondering
Jun 1, 2019, 6:08:53 PM6/1/19
to
actual number of guns and the guns per capita increased
substantially. If your hypothesis is correct, the USA gun
deaths per capita should also have increased substantially.
Instead, the gun death rate DECREASED substantially.
It's not so much that "more guns = less crime" is a truism,
it's that the USA's actual experience establishes that "more
guns = more crimes" is not accurate.
Just Wondering
Jun 1, 2019, 6:34:05 PM6/1/19
to
On 6/1/2019 10:43 AM, bigdog wrote:
>
> The other uncomfortable statistic is that, while our relative
> population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993, the US
> contribution to the world's civilian gun deaths has increased
> by almost 1.1% over the same time period.
In 1993 the USA had over 17,000 gun homicides. Despite total
>
> The other uncomfortable statistic is that, while our relative
> population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993, the US
> contribution to the world's civilian gun deaths has increased
> by almost 1.1% over the same time period.
population growth from 260 million to 323 million, in 2016
the USA had 11,000 gun homicides. In other words, USA's gun
murder rate in 2016 was only 52% of the 1993 rate.
>
> All this as they keep telling us that our rate of violence is
> declining...
Because it is, see above.
> All this as they keep telling us that our rate of violence is
> declining...
> that's why public school teachers in the US have to be
> armed to hold class...
> that's why I have to strap on a Glock and put two expanded
> capacity magazines in my pocket just to empty the trash.
country and should give serious thought to moving to a more
peaceful locale.
"The United States can really be divided up into three types
of places. Places where there are no murders, places where
there are a few murders, and places where murders are very common.
In 2014, the most recent year that a county level breakdown
is available, 54% of counties (with 11% of the population)
have no murders. 69% of counties have no more than one murder,
and about 20% of the population. These counties account for
only 4% of all murders in the country.
The worst 1% of counties have 19% of the population and 37% of
the murders. The worst 5% of counties contain 47% of the
population and account for 68% of murders. As shown in figure
2, over half of murders occurred in only 2% of counties."
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/51-murders-us-come-just-2-counties
> that's why our churches hold lock-down drills.
lock-down drills"? More than one out of a thousand?
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 8:32:15 PM6/1/19
to
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns Michael
Ejercito <meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Forger, the rate of criminal homicide has been declining for a quarter century.
>
> That is why you anti-gun cultists deny it just as surely as Holocaust deniers deny the Wannsee Conference.
Flaccid Richard, you persist in trying to steer the discussion to the
Ejercito <meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Forger, the rate of criminal homicide has been declining for a quarter century.
>
> That is why you anti-gun cultists deny it just as surely as Holocaust deniers deny the Wannsee Conference.
"rate of criminal homicide"... yes, that has been in decline worldwide
for a quarter century; it has been declining independently of guns in
all countries because it rises and falls on a predictable 55-year (or
so) cycle. Actually, it's now rising again, or so many people
believe.
May I remind you that this is "talk.politics.guns"? Why not take that
discussion to "alt.activism.homicide"?
Focus on gun deaths in the US... these are *way* up. Do you have any
comment on that matter?
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 8:51:14 PM6/1/19
to
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>
>2/3 of which are suicides.
No, they aren't; however, a significant number are. A death by a gun,
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>
>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>
>2/3 of which are suicides.
however, is still a death by a gun even if it's self inflicted. Have
you ever tried to explain to a grieving widow, parent, child, or
sibling why their loved one chose to end his or her life? Do you
think that's any easier than dealing with a violent crime? Do you
think sucicide isn't a violent act? Have you ever had a suicide in
your immediate family?
You're a nitwit, sir.
max headroom
Jun 1, 2019, 9:56:52 PM6/1/19
to
In news:tb66fe9377qdmbblf...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>2/3 of which are suicides.
> No, they aren't; however, a significant number are....
In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
total intentional deaths.
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>2/3 of which are suicides.
In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
total intentional deaths.
bigdog
Jun 1, 2019, 10:26:27 PM6/1/19
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On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>total intentional deaths.
About half of the gun deaths are suicide; however, it's the same rate
headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>total intentional deaths.
everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths. It's the
same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
"non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
percent holds.
Just Wondering
Jun 1, 2019, 10:49:59 PM6/1/19
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Just Wondering
Jun 1, 2019, 11:07:14 PM6/1/19
to
On 6/1/2019 8:26 PM, bigdog wrote:
be correct.
> however, it's the same rate everywhere so the ratio holds...
Prove it. But you won't. You can't because it's bullshit.
> as best we know.
"We" know no such thing.
> The US has 4.8% of the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2018-08-28/study-brazil-us-mexico-lead-the-world-in-gun-deaths
251,00 global deaths in 2016; 37,200 in USA. What school taught
you that 14.8% equals 34%? When you so obviously falsify data, why
should anybody believe a single thing you say?
> It's the same if you want to take suicide out,
Prove it. But you won't. You can't because it's bullshit.
but I won't let you do that because a suicide by gun is still a gun death.
> I never said "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if
> you do, the percent holds.
Repeating the same lie does not make it more true.
It's not the same problem, though. The two leading causes of
premature death are heart disease and cancer. If you want to
reduce those deaths, you treat heart patients quite differently
than cancer patients. Similarly, if you want to address the
problem you can't treat homicides and suicides the same way.
That's why it makes no sense to pretend they're the same problem.
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 "max headroom" wrote:
>
>> In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides.
>> That's 71%+ suicides of total intentional deaths.
>
> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;
If "almost half" is the same as "over two-thirds", that would
>
>> In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides.
>> That's 71%+ suicides of total intentional deaths.
>
> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;
be correct.
> however, it's the same rate everywhere so the ratio holds...
> as best we know.
"We" know no such thing.
> The US has 4.8% of the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths.
251,00 global deaths in 2016; 37,200 in USA. What school taught
you that 14.8% equals 34%? When you so obviously falsify data, why
should anybody believe a single thing you say?
> It's the same if you want to take suicide out,
but I won't let you do that because a suicide by gun is still a gun death.
> I never said "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if
> you do, the percent holds.
It's not the same problem, though. The two leading causes of
premature death are heart disease and cancer. If you want to
reduce those deaths, you treat heart patients quite differently
than cancer patients. Similarly, if you want to address the
problem you can't treat homicides and suicides the same way.
That's why it makes no sense to pretend they're the same problem.
max headroom
Jun 2, 2019, 2:13:11 AM6/2/19
to
In news:rkc6fe57si7eptq23...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
> headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>total intentional deaths.
> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;...
Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you are.
Show your work.
> ... however, it's the same rate
So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with it
nevertheless.
> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia 21.4/100K, Japan
21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland suffered 108.1 suicides
per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
Show your work.
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
> headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>total intentional deaths.
Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you are.
Show your work.
> ... however, it's the same rate
> everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
> the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths...
So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with it
nevertheless.
> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
> because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
> percent holds.
So what? Guns aren't causing suicides. Austria and the Czech Republic each have 12.8/100K suicides,
> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
> percent holds.
New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia 21.4/100K, Japan
21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland suffered 108.1 suicides
per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
Show your work.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 2:23:26 AM6/2/19
to
is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun in Australia.
True in the US as well
max headroom
Jun 2, 2019, 2:39:03 AM6/2/19
to
In news:CvqdndDqlYrF9m7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in Australia.
> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
> True in the US as well
Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 2:49:14 AM6/2/19
to
household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then in a
household without a gun.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 3:12:24 AM6/2/19
to
at much, but at least you're good at that.
All you can really say with confidence is that a suicidal person
is more likely to use a gun to commit suicide if he has a gun than
if he doesn't. No surprises there. And it doesn't justify more
gun control laws which is where critters like you inevitably want
to take the conversation.
max headroom
Jun 2, 2019, 3:24:33 AM6/2/19
to
In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
> household without a gun.
If you don't know the answer, just say so.
If you don't know the answer, just say so.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:37:12 AM6/2/19
to
likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun. As I implied
in my questions to you i.e "How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays
melding with your mind.? " guns don't cause anything, so the answer is
no. Would reducing the rate of household gun ownership reduce suicide
rates? he answer from that data is yes. It is not a hard concept but
have a think.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:41:53 AM6/2/19
to
again. Unless of course you need spoon feeding
You may not be good
> at much, but at least you're good at that.
>
> All you can really say with confidence is that a suicidal person
> is more likely to use a gun to commit suicide if he has a gun than
> if he doesn't.
> No surprises there. And it doesn't justify more
> gun control laws which is where critters like you inevitably want
> to take the conversation.
data discussing the total no. of deaths from the use of guns
eri...@home.com
Jun 2, 2019, 4:55:04 AM6/2/19
to
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 5:00:08 AM6/2/19
to
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 5:08:24 AM6/2/19
to
be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun. How do you propose to keep guns
out of the hands of such people? If these people don't have a criminal record,
what is to prevent them from getting a gun and even if they do have a criminal
record, there are illegal means of obtaining a gun. A person who intends to kill
themselves isn't going to be sweating the legal consequences.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 5:13:47 AM6/2/19
to
if a gun wasn't available. The only way to keep potential suicides from
obtaining a gun is to deprive everyone from obtaining a gun which seems to be
the agenda of the gun grabbers.
If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one. Just don't
try to force your choice on the rest of us.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 5:30:01 AM6/2/19
to
On 2/06/2019 7:13 pm, bigdog wrote:
> On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-4, de chucka wrote:
>> On 2/06/2019 5:22 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>> In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>
>>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>> In news:CvqdndDqlYrF9m7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>
>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in Australia.
>>>>>> True in the US as well
>>>
>>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>
>>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a
>>>> household without a gun.
>>>
>>> If you don't know the answer, just say so.
>>
>> So we agree that act if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>> likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun. As I implied
>> in my questions to you i.e "How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays
>> melding with your mind.? " guns don't cause anything, so the answer is
>> no. Would reducing the rate of household gun ownership reduce suicide
>> rates? he answer from that data is yes. It is not a hard concept but
>> have a think.
>
> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find another means
> if a gun wasn't available.
Some will most won't because suicide is often a spontaneous act. A
> On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-4, de chucka wrote:
>> On 2/06/2019 5:22 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>> In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>
>>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>> In news:CvqdndDqlYrF9m7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>
>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in Australia.
>>>>>> True in the US as well
>>>
>>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>
>>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a
>>>> household without a gun.
>>>
>>> If you don't know the answer, just say so.
>>
>> So we agree that act if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>> likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun. As I implied
>> in my questions to you i.e "How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays
>> melding with your mind.? " guns don't cause anything, so the answer is
>> no. Would reducing the rate of household gun ownership reduce suicide
>> rates? he answer from that data is yes. It is not a hard concept but
>> have a think.
>
> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find another means
> if a gun wasn't available.
couple of minutes getting that rope or organising the pills etc give
time for second thought. Of course these methods aren't as effective
either. These re the reason for the results from those studies
> The only way to keep potential suicides from
> obtaining a gun is to deprive everyone from obtaining a gun which seems to be
> the agenda of the gun grabbers.
>
> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
yourself"
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 5:31:21 AM6/2/19
to
On 2/06/2019 7:08 pm, bigdog wrote:
> On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:51:14 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>>>
>>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>>>
>>> 2/3 of which are suicides.
>>
>> No, they aren't; however, a significant number are. A death by a gun,
>> however, is still a death by a gun even if it's self inflicted. Have
>> you ever tried to explain to a grieving widow, parent, child, or
>> sibling why their loved one chose to end his or her life? Do you
>> think that's any easier than dealing with a violent crime? Do you
>> think sucicide isn't a violent act? Have you ever had a suicide in
>> your immediate family?
>>
>> You're a nitwit, sir.
>
> You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
> On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:51:14 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>>>
>>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>>>
>>> 2/3 of which are suicides.
>>
>> No, they aren't; however, a significant number are. A death by a gun,
>> however, is still a death by a gun even if it's self inflicted. Have
>> you ever tried to explain to a grieving widow, parent, child, or
>> sibling why their loved one chose to end his or her life? Do you
>> think that's any easier than dealing with a violent crime? Do you
>> think sucicide isn't a violent act? Have you ever had a suicide in
>> your immediate family?
>>
>> You're a nitwit, sir.
>
> You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:23:05 AM6/2/19
to
> A couple of minutes getting that rope or organising the pills etc give
> time for second thought. Of course these methods aren't as effective
> either. These re the reason for the results from those studies
>
> > The only way to keep potential suicides from
> > obtaining a gun is to deprive everyone from obtaining a gun which seems to be
> > the agenda of the gun grabbers.
>
> I'm setting out the data you can use it anyway you want
> >
> > If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> > likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>
> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> yourself"
>
You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> > If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> > likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>
> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> yourself"
>
in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
\
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:24:18 AM6/2/19
to
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 5:31:21 AM UTC-4, de chucka wrote:
> On 2/06/2019 7:08 pm, bigdog wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:51:14 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> >> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
> >>>>
> >>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
> >>>>
> >>> 2/3 of which are suicides.
> >>
> >> No, they aren't; however, a significant number are. A death by a gun,
> >> however, is still a death by a gun even if it's self inflicted. Have
> >> you ever tried to explain to a grieving widow, parent, child, or
> >> sibling why their loved one chose to end his or her life? Do you
> >> think that's any easier than dealing with a violent crime? Do you
> >> think sucicide isn't a violent act? Have you ever had a suicide in
> >> your immediate family?
> >>
> >> You're a nitwit, sir.
> >
> > You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> > be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
>
> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>
Damn, you are getting desperate to make a point.
> On 2/06/2019 7:08 pm, bigdog wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 8:51:14 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
> >> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> >> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
> >>>>
> >>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
> >>>>
> >>> 2/3 of which are suicides.
> >>
> >> No, they aren't; however, a significant number are. A death by a gun,
> >> however, is still a death by a gun even if it's self inflicted. Have
> >> you ever tried to explain to a grieving widow, parent, child, or
> >> sibling why their loved one chose to end his or her life? Do you
> >> think that's any easier than dealing with a violent crime? Do you
> >> think sucicide isn't a violent act? Have you ever had a suicide in
> >> your immediate family?
> >>
> >> You're a nitwit, sir.
> >
> > You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> > be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
>
> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 12:35:41 PM6/2/19
to
On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 09:50:01 -0500, Jones<a...@b.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
><jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>turn into mass shootings.
>
>What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>
>(Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
Oh.
It's you, Jones.
Never mind.
>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
><jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>turn into mass shootings.
>
>
>(Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>
>What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>
>(Hint: about 34% or so.)
>
>What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>
>(Hint: about 34% or so.)
>
>Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>true, naught?
Well, you'd think that if you were stupid, and--
>seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>true, naught?
Oh.
It's you, Jones.
Never mind.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 12:36:22 PM6/2/19
to
On Sat, 01 Jun 2019 11:43:12 -0500, Jones<a...@b.com> wrote:
>On 1 Jun 2019 14:57:50 GMT, in talk.politics.guns Snit
><use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>On 1 Jun 2019 14:57:50 GMT, in talk.politics.guns Snit
><use...@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>
>>bigdog <a...@b.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>>> Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>>> with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>>> attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>>> that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>>> these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>>> in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>>> turn into mass shootings.
>>>
>>> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>>>
>>> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>>>
>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>>
>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>>
>>> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>>> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>>> true, naught?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It is true.
>>bigdog <a...@b.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 06:45:04 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
>>> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Go through the history of mass shootings such as the one yesterday in Virginia
>>>> Beach. Count the number of fatalities that occurred before the attacker was met
>>>> with armed resistance and the number of fatalities that occurred after the
>>>> attacker was met with armed resistance. Go back as far as you like. When you do
>>>> that, you should get a clue as to how best to minimize the carnage when one of
>>>> these nutcases decides to go postal. Of course that would exclude most instances
>>>> in which the attacker was met early on with armed resistance because those didn't
>>>> turn into mass shootings.
>>>
>>> What percent of the world's population lives in the US?
>>>
>>> (Hint: about 4.5% or so.)
>>>
>>> What percent of the world's civilian gun deaths occur in the US?
>>>
>>> (Hint: about 34% or so.)
>>>
>>> Please explain that: "More Guns = Less Crime" equation again. It
>>> seems like we should have less than 4.5% of the gun deaths if it's
>>> true, naught?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>The other uncomfortable statistic is that, while our relative
>population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993
What *are* you babbling about now?
>The other uncomfortable statistic is that, while our relative
>population has declined by about 0.2% since 1993
Michael Ejercito
Jun 2, 2019, 12:54:57 PM6/2/19
to
"de chucka" wrote in message
news:qfCdnVVnMaw84W7B...@westnet.com.au...
>On 2/06/2019 5:22 pm, max headroom wrote:
>> In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka
>> ><Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>
>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>
>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then(sic) in
>>> a
>>> household without a gun.
>>
>> If you don't know the answer, just say so.
>So we agree that act if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun.
White House?
Can't have suicides in the White House, you know.
Michael
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 1:34:42 PM6/2/19
to
> a quick google search should let you see them again.
>>
>> All you can really say with confidence is that a suicidal person
>> is more likely to use a gun to commit suicide if he has a gun than
>> if he doesn't.
>
> Actually I've seen no evidence that this is correct or not
Likelihood that SP will use a gun if he has no gun = 0.
Likelihood he will use a gun if he has a gun > 0.
>> No surprises there. And it doesn't justify more gun control
>> laws which is where critters like you inevitably want
>> to take the conversation.
>
> Actually it is just showing that suicide data should be included in
That depends on what you're going to do with the data once
you have it.
If as you say that's all it does, then you agree the data
doesn't justify more gun control laws.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 1:37:30 PM6/2/19
to
>> On Sunday, June 2, 2019 de chucka wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>> de chucka typed:
>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in
>>>>> Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>
>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>>
>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then in a
>>> household without a gun.
>>
>> Only if you assume that the likelihood of committing suicide is equal
>> across all households, which is ridiculous. The fact is that most > >
>> households will not experience a suicide no matter how many guns are
>> present.
>
> It is not the gun that causes the suicide
You are claiming that the mere fact you have a gun makes it more
>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in
>>>>> Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>
>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>>
>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then in a
>>> household without a gun.
>>
>> Only if you assume that the likelihood of committing suicide is equal
>> across all households, which is ridiculous. The fact is that most > >
>> households will not experience a suicide no matter how many guns are
>> present.
>
> It is not the gun that causes the suicide
likely you will commit suicide than if you don't have a gun. Of
course you say a lot of other bullshit too.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 1:40:22 PM6/2/19
to
On 6/2/2019 3:29 AM, de chucka wrote:
> On 2/06/2019 7:13 pm, bigdog wrote:
>>
>> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find
>> another means if a gun wasn't available.
>
> Some will most won't because suicide is often a spontaneous act.
You spelled "rarely" wrong. Suicide is rarely a spontaneous act.
> On 2/06/2019 7:13 pm, bigdog wrote:
>>
>> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find
>> another means if a gun wasn't available.
>
> Some will most won't because suicide is often a spontaneous act.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 1:43:51 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 19:29:51 +1000, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Cite.
Meanwhile...
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide
But if you want to prove us wrong, do it right now.
wrote:
Meanwhile...
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide
But if you want to prove us wrong, do it right now.
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 1:44:13 PM6/2/19
to
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 2:21:15 PM6/2/19
to
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:49:40 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
I'm not about to follow you down a rat hole. The US has about 4.5% of
the world's population and contributes 34% of the world's gun deaths.
Yes, general crime is down somewhat worldwide. It depends on which of
the Google links you like best; however, the US falls between the 55th
and 45th percentiles; if we were graded on a curve, we'd get a 'C'.
We're pretty close to where we were in 1999... somewhere about the
middle of the pack (and much better than Venezuela!) Compared to the
rest of the planet, the US crime rate hasn't changed significantly...
but I'm not talking about that.
Where the US jumps off the chart is in gun deaths. We don't just have
more gun deaths, we have seven times as many as our closest comparable
country and about 20 times more than the mean. My definition of a
"comparable country" is one with a Human Development Index at or above
a 0.9 There are about 25 countries in that group... western Europe,
Canada, the UK, Australia, Japan, Scandinavia... you know.
We need to lose some guns.
the world's population and contributes 34% of the world's gun deaths.
Yes, general crime is down somewhat worldwide. It depends on which of
the Google links you like best; however, the US falls between the 55th
and 45th percentiles; if we were graded on a curve, we'd get a 'C'.
We're pretty close to where we were in 1999... somewhere about the
middle of the pack (and much better than Venezuela!) Compared to the
rest of the planet, the US crime rate hasn't changed significantly...
but I'm not talking about that.
Where the US jumps off the chart is in gun deaths. We don't just have
more gun deaths, we have seven times as many as our closest comparable
country and about 20 times more than the mean. My definition of a
"comparable country" is one with a Human Development Index at or above
a 0.9 There are about 25 countries in that group... western Europe,
Canada, the UK, Australia, Japan, Scandinavia... you know.
We need to lose some guns.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 2:26:29 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 02:08:23 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
>be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
Again, you keep trying to take off on a tangent. If I don't have a
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
>be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
gun, I can't kill anyone with a gun, that's all I'm saying. "More
Guns = More Gun Deaths" has been pretty well proven.
General crime is independent of guns; *gun deaths* require guns.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 2:33:12 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 19:31:10 +1000, in talk.politics.guns de chucka
<Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
We keep getting bogged down in suicide. I can buy a bolt-action .30
<Dech...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
caliber rifle in Australia... that ought to work pretty well would be
my guess. Yet, Australia has a much lower gun suicide rate than the
US.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:24:18 PM6/2/19
to
>
>
>> A couple of minutes getting that rope or organising the pills etc give
>> time for second thought. Of course these methods aren't as effective
>> either. These re the reason for the results from those studies
>>
>>> The only way to keep potential suicides from
>>> obtaining a gun is to deprive everyone from obtaining a gun which seems to be
>>> the agenda of the gun grabbers.
>>
>> I'm setting out the data you can use it anyway you want
>
> What data?
Not again do you really want me to cite again? Oh well for a start
>
>> A couple of minutes getting that rope or organising the pills etc give
>> time for second thought. Of course these methods aren't as effective
>> either. These re the reason for the results from those studies
>>
>>> The only way to keep potential suicides from
>>> obtaining a gun is to deprive everyone from obtaining a gun which seems to be
>>> the agenda of the gun grabbers.
>>
>> I'm setting out the data you can use it anyway you want
>
> What data?
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/14712990_International_Correlations_Between_Gun_Ownership_and_Rates_of_Homicide_and_Suicide
Don't like that one I can use google
>>>
>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>
>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>> yourself"
>>
> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>
>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>> yourself"
>>
> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
'more likely'
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:24:55 PM6/2/19
to
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:29:51 PM6/2/19
to
the act occurs over a period but the actual act is often spontaneous
>
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:31:21 PM6/2/19
to
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:39:31 PM6/2/19
to
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12192220
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/1814426/accessibility-firearms-risk-suicide-homicide-victimization-among-household-members-systematic
Digest those and I'll keep them coming
>
>> a quick google search should let you see them again.
>
> Not my job to find your evidence for you.
>
>>>
>>> All you can really say with confidence is that a suicidal person
>>> is more likely to use a gun to commit suicide if he has a gun than
>>> if he doesn't.
>>
>> Actually I've seen no evidence that this is correct or not
>
> This is simple logic. Start with a suicidal person.
> Likelihood that SP will use a gun if he has no gun = 0.
> Likelihood he will use a gun if he has a gun > 0.
OK
>> a quick google search should let you see them again.
>
> Not my job to find your evidence for you.
>
>>>
>>> All you can really say with confidence is that a suicidal person
>>> is more likely to use a gun to commit suicide if he has a gun than
>>> if he doesn't.
>>
>> Actually I've seen no evidence that this is correct or not
>
> This is simple logic. Start with a suicidal person.
> Likelihood that SP will use a gun if he has no gun = 0.
> Likelihood he will use a gun if he has a gun > 0.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 3:41:49 PM6/2/19
to
without. Not because guns cause suicides but because they are effective
and efficient
max headroom
Jun 2, 2019, 5:52:50 PM6/2/19
to
In news:kj38fetjv5nln3etp...@4ax.com, !jones <a...@b.com> typed:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:49:40 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com>
> wrote:
>>In news:rkc6fe57si7eptq23...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom"
>>> <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>>>total intentional deaths.
>>> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;...
>>Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you
>>are.
>>Show your work.
[crickets]
>>> ... however, it's the same rate
>>> everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
>>> the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths...
>>So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with
>>it nevertheless.
>>> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
>>> because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
>>> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
>>> percent holds.
>>So what? Guns aren't causing suicides. Austria and the Czech Republic each have 12.8/100K
>>suicides, New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia
>>21.4/100K, Japan 21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland
>>suffered 108.1 suicides per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
>>Show your work.
> I'm not about to follow you down a rat hole....
'Fraidy cat! You *can't* show your work because all those suicides are independent of gun ownership.
> ... The US has about 4.5% of the world's population and contributes 34% of the world's gun
> deaths.
So what? We got more guns! Is it any wonder which instrument violent Americans would choose to kill?
We place around #144 in a list of 230 countries for intentional homicides. That means there are
about
85 countries that have more intentional homicides than U.S., and most of them have stricter gun
control laws. The Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands have intentional homicide rates half again
as high as ours, Grenada, Barbados, and Bermuda twice ours, Anguilla, Bahamas, Trinidad and Jamaica
many times ours, yet all are British territories or British Commonwealth and enjoy Chucky's much
revered "good rule of law."
So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:49:40 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com>
> wrote:
>>In news:rkc6fe57si7eptq23...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom"
>>> <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>>>total intentional deaths.
>>> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;...
>>Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you
>>are.
>>Show your work.
>>> ... however, it's the same rate
>>> everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
>>> the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths...
>>So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with
>>it nevertheless.
>>> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
>>> because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
>>> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
>>> percent holds.
>>So what? Guns aren't causing suicides. Austria and the Czech Republic each have 12.8/100K
>>suicides, New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia
>>21.4/100K, Japan 21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland
>>suffered 108.1 suicides per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
>>Show your work.
'Fraidy cat! You *can't* show your work because all those suicides are independent of gun ownership.
> ... The US has about 4.5% of the world's population and contributes 34% of the world's gun
> deaths.
So what? We got more guns! Is it any wonder which instrument violent Americans would choose to kill?
We place around #144 in a list of 230 countries for intentional homicides. That means there are
about
85 countries that have more intentional homicides than U.S., and most of them have stricter gun
control laws. The Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands have intentional homicide rates half again
as high as ours, Grenada, Barbados, and Bermuda twice ours, Anguilla, Bahamas, Trinidad and Jamaica
many times ours, yet all are British territories or British Commonwealth and enjoy Chucky's much
revered "good rule of law."
So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 6:07:36 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 02 Jun 2019 13:21:14 -0500, Jones <a...@b.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:49:40 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
>headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>In news:rkc6fe57si7eptq23...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
>>> headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>>>total intentional deaths.
>>
>>> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;...
>>
>>Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you are.
>>
>>Show your work.
>
>
>
[crickets.wav] (© 2019 All Rights Reserved)
>On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 21:49:40 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
>headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>>In news:rkc6fe57si7eptq23...@4ax.com, !Jones <a...@b.com> typed:
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 18:56:37 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
>>> headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>In 2016, the U.S. suffered ~4.8/100,000 homicides, 12/100,000 suicides. That's 71%+ suicides of
>>>>total intentional deaths.
>>
>>> About half of the gun deaths are suicide;...
>>
>>Wrong, Jonesy. If you have contradictory data, trot it out now or stand exposed as the liar you are.
>>
>>Show your work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>> ... however, it's the same rate
>>> everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
>>> the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths...
>>
>>So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with it
>>nevertheless.
>>
>>> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
>>> because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
>>> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
>>> percent holds.
>>
>>So what? Guns aren't causing suicides. Austria and the Czech Republic each have 12.8/100K suicides,
>>New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia 21.4/100K, Japan
>>21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland suffered 108.1 suicides
>>per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
>>
>>Show your work.
>
>
>
[crickets.wav] (© 2019 All Rights Reserved)
>
>
>>> ... however, it's the same rate
>>> everywhere so the ratio holds... as best we know. The US has 4.8% of
>>> the world's population and produces 34% of the gun deaths...
>>
>>So what? We have more guns. You can't shoot Filipe with your machete... but you can kill him with it
>>nevertheless.
>>
>>> ... It's the same if you want to take suicide out, but I won't let you do that
>>> because a suicide by gun is still a gun death. I never said
>>> "non-suicides"; I just said "gun deaths"... even if you do, the
>>> percent holds.
>>
>>So what? Guns aren't causing suicides. Austria and the Czech Republic each have 12.8/100K suicides,
>>New Zealand 13.2/100K, Belgium 13.5/100K, France 15/100K, Finland 16.8/100K, Russia 21.4/100K, Japan
>>21.7/100K, China 22.23/100K, and South Korea 24.1/100K. Peaceful Greenland suffered 108.1 suicides
>>per 100,000. Are you claiming guns caused all those suicides?
>>
>>Show your work.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I'm not about to follow you down a rat hole.
TRANSLATION: Jones wants to be able to claim anything he wants without
>
>
>I'm not about to follow you down a rat hole.
the burden of it being true.
[chuckle]
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 6:13:16 PM6/2/19
to
to write his suicide note.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 6:35:35 PM6/2/19
to
1993-2018 Lots more guns.
1993-2018 Lots fewer gun deaths.
So we have 25 years of recent history saying more guns
does not equal more gun deaths.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 6:35:45 PM6/2/19
to
On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 2:26:29 PM UTC-4, bigdog wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 02:08:23 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> >be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
>
> Again, you keep trying to take off on a tangent. If I don't have a
> gun, I can't kill anyone with a gun, that's all I'm saying.
Did you figure that out all by yourself?
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 02:08:23 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
> <jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >You're a nitwit if you think a person who wants to kill him/herself is going to
> >be prevented from doing so by a lack of a gun.
>
> Again, you keep trying to take off on a tangent. If I don't have a
> gun, I can't kill anyone with a gun, that's all I'm saying.
> "More Guns = More Gun Deaths" has been pretty well proven.
ownership per capita. A number have them have fewer than 1 homicide per 100,000
people including Iceland which had 0. The article is from 2014.
https://www.deseretnews.com/top/2519/0/15-nations-with-the-highest-gun-ownership.html
A more comprehensive list showing both gun homicides and gun ownership rates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
You will see countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates
as well as countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates.
Note the US which has by far he highest gun ownership rate is not even close to
having the highest gun death rate.
>
> General crime is independent of guns; *gun deaths* require guns.
traffic.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 6:42:46 PM6/2/19
to
On 6/2/2019 12:33 PM, bigdog wrote:
USA's. (13.2 vs. 15.3 /100,000).
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
Which means that Australia's non-gun suicide rate is higher than USA's.
Which means that Australia's experience shows you don't stop suicides by
hiding the guns.
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 de chucka wrote:
>
>> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>
> We keep getting bogged down in suicide. I can buy a bolt-action .30
> caliber rifle in Australia... that ought to work pretty well would be
> my guess. Yet, Australia has a much lower gun suicide rate than the
> US.
Still yet, Australia's total suicide rate is only slightly lower than
>
>> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>
> We keep getting bogged down in suicide. I can buy a bolt-action .30
> caliber rifle in Australia... that ought to work pretty well would be
> my guess. Yet, Australia has a much lower gun suicide rate than the
> US.
USA's. (13.2 vs. 15.3 /100,000).
http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
Which means that Australia's non-gun suicide rate is higher than USA's.
Which means that Australia's experience shows you don't stop suicides by
hiding the guns.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 6:45:55 PM6/2/19
to
Oz, and 11 Euro nations. I just provided Jonesy with this more comprehensive
list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
survey you posted.
>
> Don't like that one I can use google
> >>>
> >>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> >>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
> >>
> >> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> >> yourself"
> >>
> > You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> > in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
>
> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
> 'more likely'
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 6:47:12 PM6/2/19
to
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 6:51:47 PM6/2/19
to
they're so afraid to include the others?
"Own at least 1 aircraft carrier?"
"Industrialized?"
"White?"
"Have their own beer?"
[chuckle]
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 2, 2019, 6:59:16 PM6/2/19
to
Of course not. Hard to cite a lie.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:01:43 PM6/2/19
to
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
>
> It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
> countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
> has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
> highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
> and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
> survey you posted.
>
>>
>> Don't like that one I can use google
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>>>
>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>>>> yourself"
>>>>
>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
>>
>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
>> 'more likely'
>
> A difference without a distinction.
Is your comprehension that bad?
>>
>> Don't like that one I can use google
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>>>
>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>>>> yourself"
>>>>
>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
>>
>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
>> 'more likely'
>
> A difference without a distinction.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 7:02:38 PM6/2/19
to
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide
https://thecounselingteam.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Suicide-Dynamics.pdf
https://www.hurlburt.af.mil/News/Commentaries/Display/Article/206323/be-an-ace-at-suicide-prevention/
https://studentaffairs.lehigh.edu/content/depression
http://stepupprogram.org/topics/depression/
https://www.ebony.com/health/love-peace-and-suicide-a-mental-health-discussion/
http://guyanachronicle.com/2016/04/06/stop-bemoaning-suicide-take-action-president-granger
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 7:10:37 PM6/2/19
to
_____________________________
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:16:18 PM6/2/19
to
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 7:17:59 PM6/2/19
to
Suicide rate, have a gun is ____ per 100,000.
Suicide rate, have no gun is ____ per 100,000.
< supporting URL >
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:21:12 PM6/2/19
to
long standing problems
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:31:45 PM6/2/19
to
Deisenhammer EA, Ing CM, Strauss R, Kemmler G, Hinterhuber H, Weiss EM.
The duration of the suicidal process: How much time is left for
intervention between consideration and accomplishment of a suicide
attempt? The Journal of Clinical Psychology. 2007; 70(1): 19-24.
Simon TR, Swann AC, Powell KE, Potter LB, Kresnow M, O’Carroll PW.
Characteristics of impulsive suicide attempts and attempters. Suicide
and Life-Threatening Behavior. 2001; 32(supp): 49-59.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:38:30 PM6/2/19
to
> Suicide rate, have a gun is ____ per 100,000.
> Suicide rate, have no gun is ____ per 100,000.
that will satisfy you that the person doesn't have a gun.
See i can play the game of asking for specifics as well
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:41:58 PM6/2/19
to
On 3/06/2019 8:42 am, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 6/2/2019 12:33 PM, bigdog wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 de chucka wrote:
>>
>>> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>>> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>>
>> We keep getting bogged down in suicide. I can buy a bolt-action .30
>> caliber rifle in Australia... that ought to work pretty well would be
>> my guess. Yet, Australia has a much lower gun suicide rate than the
>> US.
>
> Still yet, Australia's total suicide rate is only slightly lower than
> USA's. (13.2 vs. 15.3 /100,000).
> http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
> Which means that Australia's non-gun suicide rate is higher than USA's.
Well done. Yet in Australia as in the US the rate of suicide if you have
> On 6/2/2019 12:33 PM, bigdog wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 de chucka wrote:
>>
>>> They are not all going to be prevented but as guns are so effective and
>>> efficient they leave no times for second thoughts.
>>
>> We keep getting bogged down in suicide. I can buy a bolt-action .30
>> caliber rifle in Australia... that ought to work pretty well would be
>> my guess. Yet, Australia has a much lower gun suicide rate than the
>> US.
>
> Still yet, Australia's total suicide rate is only slightly lower than
> USA's. (13.2 vs. 15.3 /100,000).
> http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
> Which means that Australia's non-gun suicide rate is higher than USA's.
access to a gun is higher
> Which means that Australia's experience shows you don't stop suicides by
> hiding the guns.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 7:42:51 PM6/2/19
to
job of cherry picking the data. It's a favorite ploy of the anti-gunners.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
> >
> > It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
> > countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
> > has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
> > highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
> > and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
> > survey you posted.
>
> You seem a tad off on a tangent
Oh, were we all suppose to cite cherry picked studies. My bad. I provided a
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
> >
> > It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
> > countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
> > has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
> > highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
> > and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
> > survey you posted.
>
> You seem a tad off on a tangent
comprehensive list.
> >
> >>
> >> Don't like that one I can use google
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> >>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
> >>>>
> >>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> >>>> yourself"
> >>>>
> >>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> >>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
> >>
> >> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
> >> 'more likely'
> >
> > A difference without a distinction.
>
> Is your comprehension that bad?
In the context they have been used, there is no distinction.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> >>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
> >>>>
> >>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> >>>> yourself"
> >>>>
> >>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> >>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
> >>
> >> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
> >> 'more likely'
> >
> > A difference without a distinction.
>
> Is your comprehension that bad?
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 7:44:17 PM6/2/19
to
claim you like while demanding that others provide cites for their statements.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 7:45:20 PM6/2/19
to
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 7:47:18 PM6/2/19
to
On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun
>>>>> in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>
>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>
>>> Posted numerous times,
>>
>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun
>>>>> in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>
>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>
>>> Posted numerous times,
>>
>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>
> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12192220
The same abstract as your first one, with the same lack of evidence.
> https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/1814426/accessibility-firearms-risk-suicide-homicide-victimization-among-household-members-systematic
The authors did not study the issue, but did a "meta-analysis" of
other peoples' studies. Buried in the text is this seemingly
innocuous statement: "using firearm purchase data or military
duty as a proxy for firearm access or ownership may not accurately
represent ownership." Some of the studies claimed to use "firearm
purchase data". Others used "surveys". The simple fact is, neither
the authors nor the underlying "studies" actually knew what homes
had guns and what ones didn't. They didn't actually know if a gun
suicide had a gun in his home, or went out and bought or borrowed
one elsewhere. They didn't actually know whether a "other than gun"
suicide had a gun in his home. All the fancy statistical analysis
in the world can't compensate for GIGO.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:49:00 PM6/2/19
to
papers from reputable sources. You of course won't/can't read and
comprehend them and will go into denial. It is just like the smoking debate
It's a favorite ploy of the anti-gunners.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
>>>
>>> It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
>>> countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
>>> has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
>>> highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
>>> and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
>>> survey you posted.
>>
>> You seem a tad off on a tangent
>
> Oh, were we all suppose to cite cherry picked studies. My bad. I provided a
> comprehensive list.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't like that one I can use google
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>>>>>> yourself"
>>>>>>
>>>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
>>>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
>>>>
>>>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
>>>> 'more likely'
>>>
>>> A difference without a distinction.
>>
>> Is your comprehension that bad?
>
> In the context they have been used, there is no distinction.
Yes your comprehension is that bad
>>>>
>>>> Don't like that one I can use google
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
>>>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
>>>>>> yourself"
>>>>>>
>>>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
>>>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
>>>>
>>>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
>>>> 'more likely'
>>>
>>> A difference without a distinction.
>>
>> Is your comprehension that bad?
>
> In the context they have been used, there is no distinction.
>
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:51:20 PM6/2/19
to
BTW
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:52:14 PM6/2/19
to
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 7:55:21 PM6/2/19
to
On 3/06/2019 9:47 am, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a
>>>>>> gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>
>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>
>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>
>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>
>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>
> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
Get the full article and read it and weep
> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a
>>>>>> gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>
>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>
>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>
>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>
>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>
> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 8:25:38 PM6/2/19
to
makes it more likely you will commit suicide than if you don't
have a gun." You replied, "That is what the data shows". Use
whatever definition was used by the data gatherers you relied
on for your reply.
> What is the limitation on access to a firearm that will
> satisfy you that the person doesn't have a gun.
access to a gun". Those are two very different things. It's like
asking what limitations on access to public transportation would
establish that a person doesn't use public transportation. It's
just not a useful question. One way or another, pretty much any
adult who isn't incarcerated has access to a gun.
Now that we've peeked down your side path, show us the data.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 8:30:15 PM6/2/19
to
On 6/2/2019 5:55 PM, de chucka wrote:
> On 3/06/2019 9:47 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a
>>>>>>> gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>>
>>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>>
>>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>>
>> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
>> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
>
> Get the full article and read it and weep
Not my job to prove your claim. I am quite confident that the authors
> On 3/06/2019 9:47 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.?
>>>>>>> What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you
>>>>>>> are more likely to commit suicide then in a household without a
>>>>>>> gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>>
>>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>>
>>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>>
>> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
>> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
>
> Get the full article and read it and weep
suffer from the same problem I describe below: They try to make
comparisons based on "guns in homes" when they don't actually know what
homes have guns in them and what homes don't. Again, GIGO.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:33:18 PM6/2/19
to
On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If you look at all the countries of he world instead of just cherry picking, you
>will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have gun
>deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also
>find countries where guns are plentiful with lower than average gun deaths.
I don't think you know the first thing about statistics, but that's OK
because most people don't. They're not going to read our tables and
discussions of standard deviations, cause VS effect, or pH factors
(whatever they are). Here's the statistics most people will read:
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
Those, they'll remember. Those are the ones we need to keep in the
news... on the lead of the nightly newscast. You see, sir, whether
crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions and,
right now, they see lots of body bags.
Good luck with your statistics. All you have is bullshit, but it
won't make any difference because those pictures pack a punch... if I
went into a long refutation of your numbers, all I'd accomplish is to
bore the tits offa everybody.
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>If you look at all the countries of he world instead of just cherry picking, you
>will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have gun
>deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also
>find countries where guns are plentiful with lower than average gun deaths.
I don't think you know the first thing about statistics, but that's OK
because most people don't. They're not going to read our tables and
discussions of standard deviations, cause VS effect, or pH factors
(whatever they are). Here's the statistics most people will read:
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
Those, they'll remember. Those are the ones we need to keep in the
news... on the lead of the nightly newscast. You see, sir, whether
crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions and,
right now, they see lots of body bags.
Good luck with your statistics. All you have is bullshit, but it
won't make any difference because those pictures pack a punch... if I
went into a long refutation of your numbers, all I'd accomplish is to
bore the tits offa everybody.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:34:35 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 15:35:44 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>No it hasn't. The data says otherwise.
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>No it hasn't. The data says otherwise.
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:35:03 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 15:45:54 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Nice job of cherry picking the data.
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
<jecorb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Nice job of cherry picking the data.
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 8:36:08 PM6/2/19
to
On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:52:34 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max
headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
Gunshots are violent if they hit you.
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com> wrote:
>So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
Gunshots are violent if they hit you.
https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 8:38:00 PM6/2/19
to
>
>> What is the limitation on access to a firearm that will
>> satisfy you that the person doesn't have a gun.
>
> I don't know why you're trying to equate "has a gun" with "has
> access to a gun". Those are two very different things. It's like
> asking what limitations on access to public transportation would
> establish that a person doesn't use public transportation. It's
> just not a useful question. One way or another, pretty much any
> adult who isn't incarcerated has access to a gun.
>
> Now that we've peeked down your side path, show us the data.
OK this is a meta-analysis of papers nd conclude that you are 3X more
>> What is the limitation on access to a firearm that will
>> satisfy you that the person doesn't have a gun.
>
> I don't know why you're trying to equate "has a gun" with "has
> access to a gun". Those are two very different things. It's like
> asking what limitations on access to public transportation would
> establish that a person doesn't use public transportation. It's
> just not a useful question. One way or another, pretty much any
> adult who isn't incarcerated has access to a gun.
>
> Now that we've peeked down your side path, show us the data.
likely to commit suicide in a household with guns
Anglemyer A, Horvath T, Rutherford G. The accessibility of firearms and
risk for suicide and homicide victimization among household members: A
systematic review and meta-analysis. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2014;
160: 101–110
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 8:39:14 PM6/2/19
to
On 3/06/2019 10:30 am, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 6/2/2019 5:55 PM, de chucka wrote:
>> On 3/06/2019 9:47 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>>>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your
>>>>>>>> mind.? What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a
>>>>>>>> gun you are more likely to commit suicide then in a household
>>>>>>>> without a gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>>>
>>>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>>>
>>>
>>> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
>>> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
>>
>> Get the full article and read it and weep
>
> Not my job to prove your claim.
I've proved my claim with data. Don't like that one try
> On 6/2/2019 5:55 PM, de chucka wrote:
>> On 3/06/2019 9:47 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2019 1:39 PM, de chucka wrote:
>>>> On 3/06/2019 3:34 am, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 6/2/2019 1:41 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:12 pm, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/2/2019 12:23 AM, de chucka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your
>>>>>>>> mind.? What is a fact is that if you live in a household with a
>>>>>>>> gun you are more likely to commit suicide then in a household
>>>>>>>> without a gun in Australia. True in the US as well
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another opinion with no supporting evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Posted numerous times,
>>>>>
>>>>> So you say - again without producing any evidence.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/3703934.pdf?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
>>>
>>>
>>> Only an abstract and a single page, reporting conclusions but NOT A
>>> SHRED OF EVIDENCE supporting the conclusions.
>>
>> Get the full article and read it and weep
>
> Not my job to prove your claim.
Anglemyer A, Horvath T, Rutherford G. The accessibility of firearms and
risk for suicide and homicide victimization among household members: A
systematic review and meta-analysis. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2014;
160: 101–110
risk for suicide and homicide victimization among household members: A
systematic review and meta-analysis. Annals of Internal Medicine. 2014;
160: 101–110
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 9:03:20 PM6/2/19
to
paper. Show us the data.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 9:06:30 PM6/2/19
to
On 6/2/2019 6:33 PM, bigdog wrote:
> ... whether crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions
THAT's a concept lifted from Orwell's 1984.
> ... whether crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions
THAT's a concept lifted from Orwell's 1984.
de chucka
Jun 2, 2019, 9:11:37 PM6/2/19
to
>
> Show us the data.
It's in the paper cited
Michael Ejercito
Jun 2, 2019, 10:26:32 PM6/2/19
to
"Just Wondering" wrote in message news:oo_IE.19257$U14....@fx17.iad...
>On 6/2/2019 6:33 PM, bigdog wrote:
>> ... whether crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions
>THAT's a concept lifted from Orwell's 1984.
such concepts.
Michael
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 11:00:41 PM6/2/19
to
with your bullshit. It's not working.
> It's a favorite ploy of the anti-gunners.
> >>>
> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
> >>>
> >>> It shows countries with high gun ownership rates and low gun death rates and
> >>> countries with low gun ownership rates and high gun death rates. The US which
> >>> has far an away the highest gun ownership rate isn't even close to having the
> >>> highest gun death rate. Also note Iceland with 30.3 guns per 100,000 residents
> >>> and only 0.07 gun deaths. I'll bet they weren't part of that cherry picked
> >>> survey you posted.
> >>
> >> You seem a tad off on a tangent
> >
> > Oh, were we all suppose to cite cherry picked studies. My bad. I provided a
> > comprehensive list.
>
> Of what, for what reason and in response to what???
correlation between high rates of gun ownership and high rates of gun deaths. I
responded by pointing out the obvious selection bias employed and presented a
comprehensive list which refutes that there is any such correlation.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't like that one I can use google
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> >>>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> >>>>>> yourself"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> >>>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
> >>>>
> >>>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
> >>>> 'more likely'
> >>>
> >>> A difference without a distinction.
> >>
> >> Is your comprehension that bad?
> >
> > In the context they have been used, there is no distinction.
>
> Yes your comprehension is that bad
You wish it was bad because then I couldn't see through your bullshit.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't like that one I can use google
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you are so afraid that having a gun in your house is going to make you more
> >>>>>>> likely to kill yourself than you have every right not to have one.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Make you? Do your guns have mind melding sessions with you saying "kill
> >>>>>> yourself"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> You got this backward, Skippy. You are the one who is claiming that having a gun
> >>>>> in the house means you more likely to commit suicide.
> >>>>
> >>>> Try figuring out the difference of your claim of 'make you' and mine of
> >>>> 'more likely'
> >>>
> >>> A difference without a distinction.
> >>
> >> Is your comprehension that bad?
> >
> > In the context they have been used, there is no distinction.
>
> Yes your comprehension is that bad
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 11:02:33 PM6/2/19
to
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 11:05:49 PM6/2/19
to
bigdog
Jun 2, 2019, 11:08:24 PM6/2/19
to
ploy.
Just Wondering
Jun 2, 2019, 11:30:57 PM6/2/19
to
I expected from you any way. Just don't come back later
falsely claiming you showed the data.
max headroom
Jun 3, 2019, 12:21:10 AM6/3/19
to
In news:rqq8fe91cbhoq927h...@4ax.com, bigdog <a...@b.com> typed:
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:52:34 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com>
> wrote:
>>So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
> Gunshots are violent if they hit you.
So death by gunshot it is. Not crime victims, just gunshot vistims. How, er... *liberal* of you.
> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 14:52:34 -0700, in talk.politics.guns "max headroom" <maximus...@gmx.com>
> wrote:
>>So, are you concerned with death by violence or just death by gunshot?
> Gunshots are violent if they hit you.
max headroom
Jun 3, 2019, 12:21:12 AM6/3/19
to
In news:q1q8fepe039n3tvlu...@4ax.com, bigdog <a...@b.com> typed:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog <jecorb...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>If you look at all the countries of he world instead of just cherry picking, you
>>will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have gun
>>deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also
>>find countries where guns are plentiful with lower than average gun deaths.
> I don't think you know the first thing about statistics, but that's OK
> because most people don't. They're not going to read our tables and
> discussions of standard deviations, cause VS effect, or pH factors
> (whatever they are). Here's the statistics most people will read:
> https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
> Those, they'll remember. Those are the ones we need to keep in the
> news... on the lead of the nightly newscast. You see, sir, whether
> crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions and,
> right now, they see lots of body bags.
Gun nuts always rely on the public's ignorance--
"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new
topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine
guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a
machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In
addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."
-- Josh Sugarmann, Violence Policy Center, 1988
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 09:53:20 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns bigdog <jecorb...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>If you look at all the countries of he world instead of just cherry picking, you
>>will find that there are lots of countries with strict gun laws that have gun
>>deaths well above their percentage of the world population. You will also
>>find countries where guns are plentiful with lower than average gun deaths.
> I don't think you know the first thing about statistics, but that's OK
> because most people don't. They're not going to read our tables and
> discussions of standard deviations, cause VS effect, or pH factors
> (whatever they are). Here's the statistics most people will read:
> https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-mass-shooting/article_1b533ea8-846d-11e9-a728-df38353a0516.html
> Those, they'll remember. Those are the ones we need to keep in the
> news... on the lead of the nightly newscast. You see, sir, whether
> crime is up or down depends entirely on people's perceptions and,
> right now, they see lots of body bags.
"Assault weapons-just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms-are a new
topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine
guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons-anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a
machine gun-can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In
addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."
-- Josh Sugarmann, Violence Policy Center, 1988
de chucka
Jun 3, 2019, 1:34:36 AM6/3/19
to
de chucka
Jun 3, 2019, 2:10:15 AM6/3/19
to
However as you are incapable of using a search engine
https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/1814426/accessibility-firearms-risk-suicide-homicide-victimization-among-household-members-systematic
Michael Ejercito
Jun 3, 2019, 2:28:29 AM6/3/19
to
On Saturday, June 1, 2019 at 5:32:15 PM UTC-7, bigdog wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns Michael
> Ejercito <meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Forger, the rate of criminal homicide has been declining for a quarter century.
> >
> > That is why you anti-gun cultists deny it just as surely as Holocaust deniers deny the Wannsee Conference.
>
> Flaccid Richard, you persist in trying to steer the discussion to the
> "rate of criminal homicide"... yes, that has been in decline worldwide
> for a quarter century; it has been declining independently of guns in
> all countries because it rises and falls on a predictable 55-year (or
> so) cycle. Actually, it's now rising again, or so many people
> believe.
>
> May I remind you that this is "talk.politics.guns"? Why not take that
> discussion to "alt.activism.homicide"?
>
> Focus on gun deaths in the US... these are *way* up. Do you have any
> comment on that matter?
I discuss the rate of criminal homicide because it is, you know, the ACTUAL MEASURE of the average likelihood of becoming a victim of criminal homicide.
Michael
> On Sat, 1 Jun 2019 10:02:11 -0700 (PDT), in talk.politics.guns Michael
> Ejercito <meje...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Forger, the rate of criminal homicide has been declining for a quarter century.
> >
> > That is why you anti-gun cultists deny it just as surely as Holocaust deniers deny the Wannsee Conference.
>
> Flaccid Richard, you persist in trying to steer the discussion to the
> "rate of criminal homicide"... yes, that has been in decline worldwide
> for a quarter century; it has been declining independently of guns in
> all countries because it rises and falls on a predictable 55-year (or
> so) cycle. Actually, it's now rising again, or so many people
> believe.
>
> May I remind you that this is "talk.politics.guns"? Why not take that
> discussion to "alt.activism.homicide"?
>
> Focus on gun deaths in the US... these are *way* up. Do you have any
> comment on that matter?
I discuss the rate of criminal homicide because it is, you know, the ACTUAL MEASURE of the average likelihood of becoming a victim of criminal homicide.
Michael
Klaus Schadenfreude
Jun 3, 2019, 8:09:37 AM6/3/19
to
On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 05:29:38 +1000, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On 3/06/2019 10:43 am, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 19:29:51 +1000, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Meanwhile...
>>
>> https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide
>>
>> But if you want to prove us wrong, do it right now.
>
>I agree with your article ( you did read it didn't you?) the build up to
>the act occurs over a period but the actual act is often spontaneous
>>
Then you can't read, so why bother providing you with a cite?
wrote:
>On 3/06/2019 10:43 am, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 19:29:51 +1000, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/06/2019 7:13 pm, bigdog wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-4, de chucka wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:22 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>>> In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>>>>
>>
>>> On 2/06/2019 7:13 pm, bigdog wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, June 2, 2019 at 3:37:12 AM UTC-4, de chucka wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2019 5:22 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>>> In news:Aq2dnXKuV8b57G7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/06/2019 4:36 pm, max headroom wrote:
>>>>>>>> In news:CvqdndDqlYrF9m7B...@westnet.com.au, de chucka <Dech...@hotmail.com> typed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in Australia.
>>>>>>>>> True in the US as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>>>>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a
>>>>>>>>> How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays melding with your mind.? What
>>>>>>>>> is a fact is that if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>>>>>> likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a household without a gun in Australia.
>>>>>>>>> True in the US as well
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you more likely to attempt suicide in a home with a gun?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My statement was very clear, I shall reiterate - fact if you live in a
>>>>>>> household with a gun you are more likely to commit suicide then(sic) in a
>>>>>>> household without a gun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't know the answer, just say so.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we agree that act if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>> likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun. As I implied
>>>>> in my questions to you i.e "How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays
>>>>> melding with your mind.? " guns don't cause anything, so the answer is
>>>>> no. Would reducing the rate of household gun ownership reduce suicide
>>>>> rates? he answer from that data is yes. It is not a hard concept but
>>>>> have a think.
>>>>
>>>> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find another means
>>>> if a gun wasn't available.
>>>
>>> Some will most won't because suicide is often a spontaneous act.
>>
>> Cite.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you don't know the answer, just say so.
>>>>>
>>>>> So we agree that act if you live in a household with a gun you are more
>>>>> likely to commit suicide then in a household without a gun. As I implied
>>>>> in my questions to you i.e "How can guns cause suicides? Secret rays
>>>>> melding with your mind.? " guns don't cause anything, so the answer is
>>>>> no. Would reducing the rate of household gun ownership reduce suicide
>>>>> rates? he answer from that data is yes. It is not a hard concept but
>>>>> have a think.
>>>>
>>>> It means that people who want to kill themselves would just find another means
>>>> if a gun wasn't available.
>>>
>>> Some will most won't because suicide is often a spontaneous act.
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile...
>>
>> https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/suicide/understanding-and-overcoming-myths-suicide
>>
>> But if you want to prove us wrong, do it right now.
>
>I agree with your article ( you did read it didn't you?) the build up to
>the act occurs over a period but the actual act is often spontaneous
>>
Then you can't read, so why bother providing you with a cite?
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