Yet another human species - Denisovans
Sapient Fridge
other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12059564
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20336068
And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
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jillery
wrote:
> This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
> other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>
>
> And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
> homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
> Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
For that matter, it doesn't need to move either.
Ron O
wrote:
> This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
> other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>
>
> And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
> homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
> Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
> --
> Grok:http://spam.abuse.net http://www.cauce.org* nuke a spammer *
> Find:http://www.samspade.orghttp://www.netdemon.net * today *
I was hoping that the genomic DNA would trace back further than it
did. The mitochondrial sequence indicated that the Denisovans split
from the Neandertal and Modern Human lineage around 1 million years
ago, but there must have been extensive interbreeding or the
mitochondrial lineage was just maintained for a very long time in the
population. The genomic DNA is significantly different from both
Neandertal and Modern Human DNA, but the split was only 300,000 years
ago (about the time Neandertals and modern humans split). So we only
have another sister group to modern humans instead of learning
something about the DNA of a more ancient relative.
It does tell us that there were three populations existing together
for quite sometime, but with little mixing. Non African modern humans
have 1 to 4% Neandertal sequence (about evenly distributed among the
modern human populations outside of Africa, (Europeans, Asians,
Americans)). Some interbreeding likely happened in the first
populations to leave Africa (Probably in the middle east) and Modern
Humans all took a small amount of the Neandertal genome with them as
they expanded out into the rest of the world. So far the only
population of modern humans that show evidence of interbreeding with
the Denisovans is the Melanesians. None of the news articles that I
have read state how much of the Melanisian genome is derived from
Denisovans.
So interbreeding was possible, but it doesn't look like it was very
common. This is sort of strange because as was stated humans have a
propensity to breed with anything, even latex, so why don't we see
more evidence of interbreeding in Europe where Neandertals and Modern
Humans existed together for thousands of years? It was a terrible
time during the ice age and it is possible that the initial wave of
Modern Humans that hybridized was itself eliminated by the climate and
the next wave of Modern Humans.
Ron Okimoto
Ernest Major
<7ee534fb-5bb2-4ae3...@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, Ron
O <roki...@cox.net> writes
>None of the news articles that I have read state how much of the
>Melanisian genome is derived from Denisovans.
John Hawks says 4%.
--
alias Ernest Major
Paul Ciszek
In article <Xr1xUs4d2lENFw$f...@spamsights.org>,
Sapient Fridge <sapient_...@spamsights.org> wrote:
>
>And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
>homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
>Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
Baaaaaaaah.
--
Please reply to: | "Evolution is a theory that accounts
pciszek at panix dot com | for variety, not superiority."
Autoreply has been disabled | -- Joan Pontius
Paul J Gans
I suspect that population density was very very low. I'd *guess*
that people lived in family groups several of which woud be
gathered together in clans, all more or less related.
The clans, on the other hand, could have been very widely spread
out and not frequent meeters of other clans.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
>John Hawks says 4%.
I don't understand that number. Four percent of what? How different
is the mitochondrial genome of homo sap from that of chimps?
There was a story in the paper the other day that the birthrate
among teenagers fell to some number like 31 per thousand. Per
thousand what? Married teenagers? Girls 14 and under?
I hate it when measurements don't contain units.
Ernest Major
<gan...@panix.com> writes
>Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message
>><7ee534fb-5bb2-4ae3...@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, Ron
>>O <roki...@cox.net> writes
>>>None of the news articles that I have read state how much of the
>>>Melanisian genome is derived from Denisovans.
>
>>John Hawks says 4%.
>
>I don't understand that number. Four percent of what? How different
>is the mitochondrial genome of homo sap from that of chimps?
The Denisovan genome has been sequenced to 1.9-fold coverage.
4% of the nuclear genome of Melanesians (on average) is closer to the
Denisovan genome than to the modern African genome. Denisovan alleles
have not yet been identified in other modern populations.
(The abstract to the paper says that "it contributed 4-6% of its genetic
material to the genomes of present-day Melanesians".)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v468/n7327/full/nature09710.html
>
>There was a story in the paper the other day that the birthrate
>among teenagers fell to some number like 31 per thousand. Per
>thousand what? Married teenagers? Girls 14 and under?
>
>I hate it when measurements don't contain units.
>
--
alias Ernest Major
Walter Bushell
<7ee534fb-5bb2-4ae3...@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
> This is sort of strange because as was stated humans have a
> propensity to breed with anything, even latex
Humans attempt to breed with a typesetting program?
But latex is probably used by humans not to breed.
--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
Walter Bushell
nos...@nospam.com (Paul Ciszek) wrote:
> In article <Xr1xUs4d2lENFw$f...@spamsights.org>,
> Sapient Fridge <sapient_...@spamsights.org> wrote:
> >
> >And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
> >homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
> >
> >Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
>
> Baaaaaaaah.
It's been said that if sheep could cook . . .
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Sapient Fridge
<use_repl...@spamsights.org>:
>This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
>other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12059564
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20336068
>
>And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
>homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
>Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
Maybe even the last five...
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Sapient Fridge
<pr...@panix.com> writes
>In article
><7ee534fb-5bb2-4ae3...@l24g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
> Ron O <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> This is sort of strange because as was stated humans have a
>> propensity to breed with anything, even latex
>
>Humans attempt to breed with a typesetting program?
>
>But latex is probably used by humans not to breed.
Reminds me of the old UNIX saying, anyone who knows the full syntax of
the "find" command needs to go out and get some fresh air.
--
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Ron O
> Ron O <rokim...@cox.net> wrote:
> >On Dec 22, 2:20 pm, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@spamsights.org>
> >wrote:
> >> This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
> >> other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>
>
> >> And we interbred with them of course. Actually I have a suspicion that
> >> homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
> >> Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
> >> --
> >> sapient_usene...@spamsights.org ICQ #17887309 * Save the net *
The small populations that likely were moving around at the time of
the interbreeding likely makes it possible that 4% genome could be the
result of one incidence of interbreeding when modern humans first
arrived. The intial population would have expanded and subsequent
immigration would have been diluted by the larger population that was
already in residence so the fraction of Denisovan genetics wouldn't
have changed that much. The Denisovans likely had a pretty big
population on New Guinea. You would expect a lot of alleles for each
gene in such a population. If they only find a limited number of
alleles the amount of interbreeding could have involved very few
individuals. If they only find 2 Denisovan alleles in the existing
pop that would mean only a single individual interbred.
If there could be interbreeding why only 4%? The initial modern Human
immigrants would have had a lot lower population density on the island
for generations. Different species for one reason or another would
seem to be as justified a designation as it is for Neandertals that
coexisted with modern humans for thousands of years and left only a
limited trace in our population.
Ron Okimoto
Mike Painter
But they still are human and besides it's hinted at in the bible...
Genesis
2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I
will make him an help meet for him.
2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and
every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call
them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name
thereof.
2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to
every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for
him.
2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept:
and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman,
and brought her unto the man.
Clearly Adam fooled around a bit while checkiing out the animals.
Féachadóir
<use_repl...@spamsights.org> wrote:
>This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
>other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12059564
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20336068
>
>And we interbred with them of course.
At the risk of reigniting an old debate, if we interbred
(successfully) with them, doesn't that mean we are one species?
>Actually I have a suspicion that
>homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>
>Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
--
'Donegal: Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir
Ernest Major
<?@d.?.invalid> writes
>On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:20:45 +0000, Sapient Fridge
><use_repl...@spamsights.org> wrote:
>
>>This seems to indicate that Neanderthals split into two species, the
>>other being the Denisovans in South Asia:
>>
>>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12059564
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denisova_hominin
>>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20336068
>>
>>And we interbred with them of course.
>
>
>At the risk of reigniting an old debate, if we interbred
>(successfully) with them, doesn't that mean we are one species?
>
isolated.
>
>
>>Actually I have a suspicion that
>>homo-sapiens, as a species, will shag anything that moves on two legs.
>>
>>Hmm, maybe the last three words there are debatable.
--
alias Ernest Major