OT:Trump Won

[jillery]

The topic title says it all.
--
This space is intentionally not blank.

[Mike Dworetsky]

jillery wrote:
> The topic title says it all.

Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps. And think about installing a nuclear
shelter if you can afford it?

Does Obama have time left to fire the FBI Director? His announcement of an
"investigation" was enough to tip the polls against Clinton, and his
retraction came too late to have an effect.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

[eridanus]

I am amazed.
eri

[RonO]

It is democracy at work. People evidently believed that they wanted
change. Our system has been robust enough to be self correcting, and
the legacy of our political system has likely kept the worst abuses from
dealing any really spectacular disasters like the civil war from being
common place.

Hopefully this will be like Woodstock where more people than were there
claim to have attended. It will be a tragedy if people had a reason to
deny that they voted for Trump. Fear and hatred isn't what will make
America great again, and, hopefully, the Klan and Neo-nazis didn't
support Trump for the same reason most did.

The House, Senate, and soon the Supreme Court will be leaning one way.
We will see how robust the system is. Even though Trump likely didn't
know much about what is in the constitution, as President he will have
to abide by it and swear to up hold it.

Ron Okimoto

[eridanus]

I think people people voted for Trump, for they basically are pissed off
by the results of a globalization economy. It is the same symptom as in
case of UK with the Brexit. Common white workers, or blue collar workers
had lost their jobs to economic globalization. They want to get their
lost jobs back, and for whatever reason they think a Republican party
would give them these jobs back. But they seem to ignore that it was
the republican party the main agent that helped to create the economics
of globalization. Of course, the Democratic politicians were also
accomplices of this globalization changes. Or at least they do not spoke
clearly against them.
Why poor white blue workers voted for the republican party? Well they
are mostly Christian conservatives and are tired of being called stupid
morons by the intellectual elite. This is a well deserved punishment for
calling some ignorant people morons.

Eri

[jillery]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 05:49:42 -0600, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:

>On 11/9/2016 1:57 AM, jillery wrote:
>> The topic title says it all.
>>
>

>It is democracy at work. People evidently believed that they wanted
>change. Our system has been robust enough to be self correcting, and
>the legacy of our political system has likely kept the worst abuses from
>dealing any really spectacular disasters like the civil war from being
>common place.
>
>Hopefully this will be like Woodstock where more people than were there
>claim to have attended. It will be a tragedy if people had a reason to
>deny that they voted for Trump. Fear and hatred isn't what will make
>America great again, and, hopefully, the Klan and Neo-nazis didn't
>support Trump for the same reason most did.
>
>The House, Senate, and soon the Supreme Court will be leaning one way.
>We will see how robust the system is. Even though Trump likely didn't
>know much about what is in the constitution, as President he will have
>to abide by it and swear to up hold it.
>
>Ron Okimoto

The nation and the world survived the shrubbery call Bush, although
just barely, and even in hindsight I'm not sure how. Perhaps they
will survive a Trump Presidency as well.

Trump is what happens when corporations are treated as persons.

[*Hemidactylus*]

jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The topic title says it all.

I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.

[jillery]

In a world where young girls are shot in the face for proclaiming
their right to have a life, and nations are held hostage for petty
insults to a Deity, I guess complaining about Trump at this time could
be thought of as petulant whining. Let's wait to complain about him
until *after* he starts WWIII.

[eridanus]

this war would occur a while later than Trump.
eri

[eridanus]

it won the side with the higher numbers. And intelligent people had been
always a minority. The polls do not rang this bells, because they were
asking whom? Or perhaps some people felt embarrassed to tell they were going
to vote for Trump. But why the voted for Trump? They surely were full of
shit, probably believed electoral promises. And the subliminal message was
that Trump was going to do something for them. Like giving them some job
or a rise in pay.
Eri

[Glenn]

"eridanus" <leopoldo...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1406c895-6b24-4e45...@googlegroups.com...

Right, if they had just called ignorant people people ignorant, they would not have lost.

[Glenn]

"*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...

> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The topic title says it all.
>
> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>

Then get the fuck out.

[jillery]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 10:09:19 -0800 (PST), eridanus

>this war would occur a while later than Trump.
>eri

I would be more than happy to be proved wrong on that point.

[jillery]

There's no shame in a government which represents the governed. As
the Arab Spring recently showed, sometimes the governed wants stupid
things.

The real shame of this election is that so many citizens are so
short-sighted and narrow-minded, that they think Donald Trump is not
just the lesser evil, but a good choice. I hate to think what it will
take to convince them otherwise.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.

[Mike Dworetsky]

How charming can you be?

And do you really think Trump will do something for coal miners? If so,
what?

[Rolf]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:shr62cpkn5f9bssfv...@4ax.com...

Well, there may at least be interesting times ahead.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Mike Dworetsky <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> Glenn wrote:
>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The topic title says it all.
>>>
>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>>>
>> Then get the fuck out.
>
> How charming can you be?

His truncheon is showing. One wonders when the roundups and deportations
will start, especially for those who "look" or "sound" Hispanic or Muslim,
but why stop there? Nationalism and purity obsession go hand in hand.
Mexicans and Muslims are Other as are feminists, LGBT, and atheists. And
disgusted Americans such as me. We all must go ASAP. Round us up Glenn.

> And do you really think Trump will do something for coal miners? If so,
> what?

Will he do anything for anyone that's not in his own malignant narcissistic
self-interest? This will be the biggest ego trip in US history. One of
those "reality" based WWE extravaganzas.

[Mark Isaak]

Hitler achieved and kept power in part because good people waited to
complain. Trump is following the same path as Hitler. I would rather
not have his leadership go as far along it. Let us decide, right now,
that if a president of the US orders imprisonment of political enemies,
if he starts building and populating mass detainment facilities (aka
concentration camps), if he encourages violence against any ethnic or
religious group, if he starts hindering free speech, then it is right an
proper not just to complain, but to take up arms against him.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"We are not looking for answers. We are looking to come to an
understanding, recognizing that it is temporary--leaving us open to an
even richer understanding as further evidence surfaces." - author unknown

[Jonathan]

Funny how Trump supporters are easy so to spot.

You're gonna get a big surprise when you find
out Trump is really a democrat in wolf's clothing.
Trump said whatever he needed to get elected, his
policies and his campaign rhetoric will be two
entirely different things.

[Jonathan]

One big problem is that Trump's numerous financial
entanglements in Russia means Putin can blackmail
Trump any time he likes, probably already is judging
from the 100% glowing remarks about Putin and
Russia's foreign policy.

Europe is on it's own from here on out, good luck
to Europe, they're gonna need it.



s

[Jonathan]

Cutting taxes for the rich like himself is all he's
going to do, he's said over and over that's his
recipe for making the economy white...ah, I mean
great again.

Oh and lowering our wages and reducing our benefits
is the other thing that'll make our economy great.
At least for big business, that is.

[*Hemidactylus*]

As often as we disagree I am in unison with you here. You are at your best
when you post your own words from the heart. As-salāmu ʿalaykum. That
should get me into Gitmo.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Hey rest of the world:

Hi. How ya doing? Kinda awkward moment here, but I swear to you I did not
vote for Trump. So whatever happens from here on out please don't blame me
or drag me to the Hague for that. We are in uncharted territory. Sorry in
advance.

[Mike Dworetsky]

Hang on, I thought Trump does not pay taxes because he is smart. We never
did see those income tax returns. So why should he even bother reducing
taxes for the rich?

>
> Oh and lowering our wages and reducing our benefits
> is the other thing that'll make our economy great.
> At least for big business, that is.

[joecummin...@gmqil.com]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 02:57:15 -0500, jillery <69jp...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>The topic title says it all.

Two points:

Unfortunately I won a bet on the result of the election. OK, it was
only one Euro. My reasoning for betting on Trump was that I thought
the demographic profile used by the pollsters was as wrong as in the
UK over Brexit - that is, the effect of the so-called blue-collar
workers voting intentions was underestimated. In the UK,my impression
is that these are not as likely to vote as other groups.

I could be wrong, but I did win a Euro.

A bit of statistical analysis could either confirm my assumptions or
shoot them down.



Second, I notice that there was a jolt in the stockmarkets, followed
by a quick recovery. Does this mean that the expectations of
investors is that Trump won't make any big changes to the economic
situation - that in the eyes of investors he's a safe pair of hands?

Be not gloomy,

Joe Cummings

[Peter Nyikos]

Well, I sure hope his outrageous "promise" to deport two million
illegal aliens and deny visas to countries that will not take them
back, is one of those promises that he will not try to keep.

I even have a slim hope that the office of the Presidency will
make a better man out of Trump, just as it did for Chester
Alan Arthur.

Unless that happens, my attitude towards the election will be summed
up in the following bit of dark humor:

I have some good news and some bad news.

The good news is that Clinton lost. The bad news is that Trump won.

Peter Nyikos

[AlwaysAskingQuestions]

What happens if (when?) Trump simply gets fed up of being President
with all the restrictions that he doesn't yet seem to be aware of?

[Peter Nyikos]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:10:02 AM UTC-5, Mike Dworetsky wrote:

> jillery wrote:
> > The topic title says it all.
>

> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps.

Joe Cummings said that the big drop was a temporary jolt, followed
by a rebound. What do you say to that?

> And think about installing a nuclear
> shelter if you can afford it?

I keep hearing this scare talk about a Trump presidency making
WWIII likely, but I never saw any statement by Trump that would
account for it.

Can you help me out here?

> Does Obama have time left to fire the FBI Director? His announcement of an
> "investigation" was enough to tip the polls against Clinton, and his
> retraction came too late to have an effect.

What polls? The consensus at this university is that most if not
all the polls were misleading.

If that's not the kind of "polls" you are talking about, then let
me ask: do you think this one announcement made all the difference
in the results of the election?

Peter Nyikos




'

[Peter Nyikos]

What makes you think that? Obama had a great time circumventing all
kinds of restrictions, like when he made a treaty with Iran that he called
something else, so that people wouldn't think that he was violating
the Constitution. One explicit clause says that all treaties require
approval by the Senate (IIRC with a two thirds majority, at that).

However, you may be right in a broader context: the mainstream media gave
Obama a pass over that and all kinds of executive orders of dubious
constitutionality and/or ethics, but they aren't likely to cut Trump
any slack.

Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 7:35:02 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 11/9/2016 6:21 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> >> Mike Dworetsky <plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
> >>> Glenn wrote:
> >>>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
> >>>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
> >>>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> The topic title says it all.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
> >>>>>
> >>>> Then get the fuck out.
> >>>
> >>> How charming can you be?
> >>
> >> His truncheon is showing. One wonders when the roundups and deportations
> >> will start, especially for those who "look" or "sound" Hispanic or Muslim,
> >> but why stop there? Nationalism and purity obsession go hand in hand.
> >> Mexicans and Muslims are Other as are feminists, LGBT, and atheists. And
> >> disgusted Americans such as me. We all must go ASAP. Round us up Glenn.

<snip>

> > Cutting taxes for the rich like himself is all he's
> > going to do, he's said over and over that's his
> > recipe for making the economy white...ah, I mean
> > great again.
> >
> > Oh and lowering our wages and reducing our benefits
> > is the other thing that'll make our economy great.
> > At least for big business, that is.
>
> As often as we disagree I am in unison with you here.

And with Mark Isaak's paranoid rant?


[Not that I can recall you disagreeing with Mark on any issue.
I'm only referring to the part after "I am in unison".]

>You are at your best
> when you post your own words from the heart.

> As-salāmu ʿalaykum. That
> should get me into Gitmo.

Hence my question about Mark's more expansive piece of paranoia.
Unlike yours, it isn't easy to shrug off as just another
bit of flippancy.

Your kind is so used to seeing the word "paranoia" and its
derivatives misused on talk.origins, the original meaning
is something you cannot seem to remember when it applies to you.

Peter Nyikos

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 13:44:24 -0500, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by jillery <69jp...@gmail.com>:

No one I know thinks that; they simply believe he's the less
bad choice. If the major parties didn't have a lock on the
media we could perhaps elect someone else, but as things
stand a vote for a third-party candidate is truly a vote
thrown away. Pity...
--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:22:36 -0000, the following appeared in
talk.origins, posted by "Mike Dworetsky"
<plati...@pants.btinternet.com>:

>Glenn wrote:
>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The topic title says it all.
>>>
>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>>>
>> Then get the fuck out.
>
>How charming can you be?

You're seeing it.

>And do you really think Trump will do something for coal miners? If so,
>what?
--

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 13:51:03 -0600, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
<ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

Hear, hear!

[Bob Casanova]

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 18:59:28 -0500, the following appeared in
talk.origins, posted by Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com>:

Europe has the population, wealth and ability to provide for
their own defense quite handily; all they seem to lack is
the will.

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:31:13 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
<nyi...@bellsouth.net>:

Can't disagree with either...

And reversing the names, if the election had gone the other
way, would leave the content just as valid.

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 07:53:18 -0800 (PST), the following

appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
<nyi...@bellsouth.net>:

>On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:10:02 AM UTC-5, Mike Dworetsky wrote:
>> jillery wrote:
>> > The topic title says it all.
>>
>> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
>> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
>> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
>> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps.
>
>Joe Cummings said that the big drop was a temporary jolt, followed
>by a rebound. What do you say to that?

Dunno what he says, but that's what the US markets say.
There'll probably be a "readjustment", but the immediate
result was a significant increase in all three indices. The
market analysts seem as competent as the political analysts
as prognosticators.

>> And think about installing a nuclear
>> shelter if you can afford it?
>
>I keep hearing this scare talk about a Trump presidency making
>WWIII likely, but I never saw any statement by Trump that would
>account for it.
>
>Can you help me out here?
>
>
>> Does Obama have time left to fire the FBI Director? His announcement of an
>> "investigation" was enough to tip the polls against Clinton, and his
>> retraction came too late to have an effect.
>
>What polls? The consensus at this university is that most if not
>all the polls were misleading.
>
>If that's not the kind of "polls" you are talking about, then let
>me ask: do you think this one announcement made all the difference
>in the results of the election?
>
>Peter Nyikos
>
>
>
>
>'
>
>> --
>> Mike Dworetsky
>>
>> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 15:51:40 +0000, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by AlwaysAskingQuestions
<alwaysaski...@gmail.com>:

"Good morning, President Pence."

[Bob Casanova]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 08:22:58 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
<nyi...@bellsouth.net>:

Of course not; it's all about the specific ownership of the
ox.

[Mark Isaak]

On 11/10/16 7:53 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:10:02 AM UTC-5, Mike Dworetsky wrote:
>> jillery wrote:
>>> The topic title says it all.
>>
>> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
>> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
>> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
>> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps.
>
> Joe Cummings said that the big drop was a temporary jolt, followed
> by a rebound. What do you say to that?
>
>> And think about installing a nuclear
>> shelter if you can afford it?
>
> I keep hearing this scare talk about a Trump presidency making
> WWIII likely, but I never saw any statement by Trump that would
> account for it.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Peter Nyikos]

On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 1:05:01 PM UTC-5, Mark Isaak wrote:
> On 11/10/16 7:53 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:10:02 AM UTC-5, Mike Dworetsky wrote:
> >> jillery wrote:
> >>> The topic title says it all.
> >>
> >> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
> >> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
> >> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
> >> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps.
> >
> > Joe Cummings said that the big drop was a temporary jolt, followed
> > by a rebound. What do you say to that?
> >
> >> And think about installing a nuclear
> >> shelter if you can afford it?
> >
> > I keep hearing this scare talk about a Trump presidency making
> > WWIII likely, but I never saw any statement by Trump that would
> > account for it.
>
> Actions speak louder than words.

Which actions of Trump did you have in mind? Are any of them more likely
to result in a nuclear war than Obama's treaty-in-all-but-name with Iran?

Peter Nyikos

[AlwaysAskingQuestions]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 08:22:58 -0800 (PST), Peter Nyikos
<nyi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 10:55:02 AM UTC-5, AlwaysAskingQuestions wrote:
>> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 19:01:59 -0500, Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On 11/9/2016 1:28 PM, Glenn wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>> >>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> The topic title says it all.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>> >>>
>> >> Then get the fuck out.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Funny how Trump supporters are easy so to spot.
>> >
>> >You're gonna get a big surprise when you find
>> >out Trump is really a democrat in wolf's clothing.
>> >Trump said whatever he needed to get elected, his
>> >policies and his campaign rhetoric will be two
>> >entirely different things.
>> >
>>
>> What happens if (when?) Trump simply gets fed up of being President
>> with all the restrictions that he doesn't yet seem to be aware of?
>
>What makes you think that? Obama had a great time circumventing all
>kinds of restrictions, like when he made a treaty with Iran that he called
>something else, so that people wouldn't think that he was violating
>the Constitution. One explicit clause says that all treaties require
>approval by the Senate (IIRC with a two thirds majority, at that).

The difference is that Obama is a professional politician who knows
how to work the system. Trump isn't and doesn't.

Looking at his body language in the White House with Obama today, I
got the distinct impression of somebody thinking "WTF have I got
myself into, nobody told me it is this complicated."

>
>However, you may be right in a broader context: the mainstream media gave
>Obama a pass over that and all kinds of executive orders of dubious
>constitutionality and/or ethics, but they aren't likely to cut Trump
>any slack.

That too. Building a wall and making Mexico pay for it is a very
specific promise with no real wriggle room.

[Mark Isaak]

On 11/9/16 4:40 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> [...]

>> One big problem is that Trump's numerous financial
>> entanglements in Russia means Putin can blackmail
>> Trump any time he likes, probably already is judging
>> from the 100% glowing remarks about Putin and
>> Russia's foreign policy.
>>
>> Europe is on it's own from here on out, good luck
>> to Europe, they're gonna need it.
>
> Hey rest of the world:
>
> Hi. How ya doing? Kinda awkward moment here, but I swear to you I did not
> vote for Trump. So whatever happens from here on out please don't blame me
> or drag me to the Hague for that. We are in uncharted territory. Sorry in
> advance.

Can you accept 300,000,000 more refugees?

[Mark Isaak]

On 11/10/16 2:58 AM, joecummin...@gmqil.com wrote:
> [...]

> Second, I notice that there was a jolt in the stockmarkets, followed
> by a quick recovery. Does this mean that the expectations of
> investors is that Trump won't make any big changes to the economic
> situation - that in the eyes of investors he's a safe pair of hands?

That was the biggest surprise to me. There are few things investors
hate more than uncertainty, and there is nothing that Trump offers more
of, at this point, than uncertainty.

[AlwaysAskingQuestions]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:31:46 -0800, Mark Isaak
<eciton@curiousta/xyz/xonomy.net> wrote:

>On 11/9/16 4:40 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> One big problem is that Trump's numerous financial
>>> entanglements in Russia means Putin can blackmail
>>> Trump any time he likes, probably already is judging
>>> from the 100% glowing remarks about Putin and
>>> Russia's foreign policy.
>>>
>>> Europe is on it's own from here on out, good luck
>>> to Europe, they're gonna need it.
>>
>> Hey rest of the world:
>>
>> Hi. How ya doing? Kinda awkward moment here, but I swear to you I did not
>> vote for Trump. So whatever happens from here on out please don't blame me
>> or drag me to the Hague for that. We are in uncharted territory. Sorry in
>> advance.
>
>Can you accept 300,000,000 more refugees?

Nah, it's only 150,000,000.

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:12:37 -0700, Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off>
wrote:

Trump has had rabid supporters from before the primaries.

>If the major parties didn't have a lock on the
>media we could perhaps elect someone else, but as things
>stand a vote for a third-party candidate is truly a vote
>thrown away. Pity...

The third-party presidential candidates are as out of touch with
reality as Trump.
--

[jillery]

He will just say "You're fired".

[jillery]

Where do you see anyone mentioning Mark Isaak?

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:19:37 -0700, Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off>
wrote:

False equivalence. Trump is the personification of Dunning-Kruger.
Whatever your beef is with Clinton, you can't honestly say the same
about her.

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 10:15:56 -0700, Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off>

Of course, your comment above is exactly what Putin likes to hear.

[Peter Nyikos]

Oh, dear, I had another senior moment. I was talking to Hemidactylus
and it turns out that I was just comparing him to himself when I wrote:


[REPOST:]

[Not that I can recall you disagreeing with Mark on any issue.
I'm only referring to the part after "I am in unison".]

>You are at your best
> when you post your own words from the heart.

> As-salāmu ʿalaykum. That
> should get me into Gitmo.

Hence my question about Mark's more expansive piece of paranoia.
Unlike yours, it isn't easy to shrug off as just another
bit of flippancy.

Your kind is so used to seeing the word "paranoia" and its
derivatives misused on talk.origins, the original meaning
is something you cannot seem to remember when it applies to you.

[END OF REPOST]

Well, I suppose Hemidactylus will take advantage of my senior moment
to pretend he never wrote anything paranoid. Live and learn.

Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Thursday, November 10, 2016 at 12:20:01 PM UTC-5, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 18:59:28 -0500, the following appeared in
> talk.origins, posted by Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com>:

> >One big problem is that Trump's numerous financial
> >entanglements in Russia means Putin can blackmail
> >Trump any time he likes, probably already is judging
> >from the 100% glowing remarks about Putin and
> >Russia's foreign policy.

In comparison to Obama's foreign policy? Obama set such a low bar
wrt Syria, almost any head of state could have done better.
And don't even get me talking about Libya.

> >Europe is on it's own from here on out, good luck
> >to Europe, they're gonna need it.

Do you think they will all turn their noses up at "no fair share
of the cost, no help"? Or did you have some other comments of Trump
in mind?

> Europe has the population, wealth and ability to provide for
> their own defense quite handily; all they seem to lack is
> the will.

Agreed. But even Angela Merkel and Pope Francis are getting to
have second thoughts about Europe's ability to handle all those
immigrants. Only some of them are refugees from war zones and only
a small minority [Yazids, Iraqi and Syrian Christians] are genuinely
in need of asylum.

Vetting would-be immigrants well enough to figure out even which
of the immigrants fall into which category seems already too much
for Europe; and then there is the opposite category of would-be
terrorists and Sharia law enforcers in various "no police" enclaves.

Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 2:55:02 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
> >> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> The topic title says it all.
> >>
> >> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
> >>
> > Then get the fuck out.
>

> Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
> please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
> stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
> give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.

Glenn, a willing dissent crusher, when he is one of the most dogged
dissenters in this newsgroup, and one far less able to work his will
on talk.origins than you are?

You remind me of the time I was in first grade, one day when were told
to line up after the bell rang for classes in order of height, shortest first.

The tallest boy in the class came "walking" forward in a deep crouch that
put his head below waist level. In a piping, high-pitched voice different
from his usual one, he said, "What about poor little me?"

Peter Nyikos

[Glenn]

"Bob Casanova" <nos...@buzz.off> wrote in message news:5la92cdfse72eimvb...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 13:51:03 -0600, the following appeared
> in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
> <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:
>
>>Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The topic title says it all.
>>>>
>>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>>>>
>>> Then get the fuck out.
>>
>>Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
>>please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
>>stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
>>give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.
>
> Hear, hear!
> --

You're hailing "why don't you go somewhere else"?

[Glenn]

"Bob Casanova" <nos...@buzz.off> wrote in message news:rla92ch5o86in4lh3...@4ax.com...

> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:22:36 -0000, the following appeared in
> talk.origins, posted by "Mike Dworetsky"
> <plati...@pants.btinternet.com>:
>
>>Glenn wrote:
>>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The topic title says it all.
>>>>
>>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>>>>
>>> Then get the fuck out.
>>
>>How charming can you be?
>
> You're seeing it.

Another pronouncement about what can not be.

[Glenn]

"Mark Isaak" <eciton@curiousta/xyz/xonomy.net> wrote in message news:o02em1$9nr$2...@dont-email.me...

> On 11/10/16 2:58 AM, joecummin...@gmqil.com wrote:
>> [...]
>> Second, I notice that there was a jolt in the stockmarkets, followed
>> by a quick recovery. Does this mean that the expectations of
>> investors is that Trump won't make any big changes to the economic
>> situation - that in the eyes of investors he's a safe pair of hands?
>
> That was the biggest surprise to me. There are few things investors
> hate more than uncertainty, and there is nothing that Trump offers more
> of, at this point, than uncertainty.
>

Do you really think the recent fluctuations are being caused by "investors"?

[Glenn]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:skh92cht77ckh0tl7...@4ax.com...

Where do you see anyone mentioning Hitler?

[Glenn]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:mjh92c1budr7r9cme...@4ax.com...

Honesty = agreement with "Jilllery".

[Ray Martinez]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 6:40:02 AM UTC-8, jillery wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 04:29:23 -0800 (PST), eridanus
> <leopoldo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >El miércoles, 9 de noviembre de 2016, 8:10:02 (UTC), Mike Dworetsky escribió:

> >> jillery wrote:
> >> > The topic title says it all.
> >>

> >> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
> >> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
> >> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the

> >> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps. And think about installing a nuclear

> >> shelter if you can afford it?
> >>

> >> Does Obama have time left to fire the FBI Director? His announcement of an
> >> "investigation" was enough to tip the polls against Clinton, and his
> >> retraction came too late to have an effect.
> >>

> >> --
> >> Mike Dworetsky
> >>
> >> (Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
> >

> >I think people people voted for Trump, for they basically are pissed off
> >by the results of a globalization economy. It is the same symptom as in
> >case of UK with the Brexit. Common white workers, or blue collar workers
> >had lost their jobs to economic globalization. They want to get their
> >lost jobs back, and for whatever reason they think a Republican party
> >would give them these jobs back. But they seem to ignore that it was
> >the republican party the main agent that helped to create the economics
> >of globalization. Of course, the Democratic politicians were also
> >accomplices of this globalization changes. Or at least they do not spoke
> >clearly against them.
> >Why poor white blue workers voted for the republican party? Well they
> >are mostly Christian conservatives and are tired of being called stupid
> >morons by the intellectual elite. This is a well deserved punishment for
> >calling some ignorant people morons.
> >
> >Eri
>
>
> In a world where young girls are shot in the face for proclaiming
> their right to have a life, and nations are held hostage for petty
> insults to a Deity, I guess complaining about Trump at this time could
> be thought of as petulant whining. Let's wait to complain about him
> until *after* he starts WWIII.

> --
> This space is intentionally not blank.

Americans don't start wars, but we attempt to finish some of them and we usually win. I hope Trump goes after ISIS with a vengeance because Obama believes in peace at any cost.

Ray

[Ray Martinez]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 6:35:03 AM UTC-8, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The topic title says it all.
>

> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.

I feel just the opposite.

Ray

[Ray Martinez]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 4:05:01 PM UTC-8, Mark Isaak wrote:

> On 11/9/16 6:38 AM, jillery wrote:
> > On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 04:29:23 -0800 (PST), eridanus
> > <leopoldo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> El miércoles, 9 de noviembre de 2016, 8:10:02 (UTC), Mike Dworetsky escribió:

> >>> jillery wrote:
> >>>> The topic title says it all.
> >>>

> Hitler achieved and kept power in part because good people waited to
> complain. Trump is following the same path as Hitler. I would rather
> not have his leadership go as far along it. Let us decide, right now,
> that if a president of the US orders imprisonment of political enemies,
> if he starts building and populating mass detainment facilities (aka
> concentration camps), if he encourages violence against any ethnic or
> religious group, if he starts hindering free speech, then it is right an
> proper not just to complain, but to take up arms against him.

>
> --
> Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
> "We are not looking for answers. We are looking to come to an
> understanding, recognizing that it is temporary--leaving us open to an
> even richer understanding as further evidence surfaces." - author unknown

The slander of a very sore loser.

Ray

[Ray Martinez]

On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 4:45:03 PM UTC-8, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
> Jonathan <wr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On 11/9/2016 7:55 AM, jillery wrote:
> >> On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 05:49:42 -0600, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>

> >>> On 11/9/2016 1:57 AM, jillery wrote:
> >>>> The topic title says it all.
> >>>>
> >>>

> >>> It is democracy at work. People evidently believed that they wanted
> >>> change. Our system has been robust enough to be self correcting, and
> >>> the legacy of our political system has likely kept the worst abuses from
> >>> dealing any really spectacular disasters like the civil war from being
> >>> common place.
> >>>
> >>> Hopefully this will be like Woodstock where more people than were there
> >>> claim to have attended. It will be a tragedy if people had a reason to
> >>> deny that they voted for Trump. Fear and hatred isn't what will make
> >>> America great again, and, hopefully, the Klan and Neo-nazis didn't
> >>> support Trump for the same reason most did.
> >>>
> >>> The House, Senate, and soon the Supreme Court will be leaning one way.
> >>> We will see how robust the system is. Even though Trump likely didn't
> >>> know much about what is in the constitution, as President he will have
> >>> to abide by it and swear to up hold it.
> >>>
> >>> Ron Okimoto
> >>
> >>
> >> The nation and the world survived the shrubbery call Bush, although
> >> just barely, and even in hindsight I'm not sure how. Perhaps they
> >> will survive a Trump Presidency as well.
> >>
> >> Trump is what happens when corporations are treated as persons.
> >> --
> >
> >
> >
> >

> > One big problem is that Trump's numerous financial
> > entanglements in Russia means Putin can blackmail
> > Trump any time he likes, probably already is judging
> > from the 100% glowing remarks about Putin and
> > Russia's foreign policy.
> >

> > Europe is on it's own from here on out, good luck
> > to Europe, they're gonna need it.
>

> Hey rest of the world:
>
> Hi. How ya doing? Kinda awkward moment here, but I swear to you I did not
> vote for Trump. So whatever happens from here on out please don't blame me
> or drag me to the Hague for that. We are in uncharted territory. Sorry in
> advance.

America disagrees.

We voted for Trump so as to repudiate the traitorous policies of Obama. Your current President sat down with Holocaust deniers----Iran----a nation that has the same intentions as Nazi Germany, and gave them 21 days to comply with inspection, and a ransom for hostages. The mainstream media turned a blind eye.

Ray

[Glenn]

"Peter Nyikos" <nyi...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:79c6416d-7fed-44f8...@googlegroups.com...

> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 2:55:02 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>> >> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> The topic title says it all.
>> >>
>> >> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>> >>
>> > Then get the fuck out.
>>
>> Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
>> please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
>> stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
>> give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.
>
> Glenn, a willing dissent crusher, when he is one of the most dogged
> dissenters in this newsgroup, and one far less able to work his will
> on talk.origins than you are?
>

Careful, I might get all authoritarian on you.

[Peter Nyikos]

I can't disagree with that either.


> False equivalence.

Nobody claimed the two were mirror images of each other. But my
comment is simple enough to absorb the huge differences between
the two.

> Trump is the personification of Dunning-Kruger.

I hope, for America's sake, that you are wrong.

> Whatever your beef is with Clinton, you can't honestly say the same
> about her.

Perhaps not, but I could say lots about her that I can't say about
Trump, beginning with four Americans who lost their lives in Benghazi
because their pleas for better security went unheeded.

I think part of the reason is that Clinton, as Secretary of State,
endorsed Obama's myth that the overthrow and assassination of Gaddafi had
brought a much better "Arab Spring" order to Libya. Providing more security
would have been an admission that we could not trust the new government to
provide all necessary security.

Peter Nyikos

[Glenn]

"Ray Martinez" <pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:98da5eb6-8677-4d84...@googlegroups.com...

Admirable, for whatever reason among many.

[Glenn]

"Ray Martinez" <pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2fcc6853-17f1-4328...@googlegroups.com...

Well damn, you nailed that one, Ray.

[Rolf]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:pmh92ctjt7sfuk2bu...@4ax.com...

With his proven inabilty to understand science, a failed life project of
tearing down Darwin, his praise of Ayn Rand, Immanuel Velikovsky and other
crackpots, it is not to be expected that Ray should understand world
affairs, politics, or other subjects that matter. Creationism, twisted
logic, redefinitions and misrepresentation are his main and miserable
contributions to the world.

He is relieved that a person like me says things like i do about him. Have
to disappoint you dear Ray, I don't have time to waste on something as
irrelvant as you, your opinion and ideas.
But I sometimes enjoy making a comment, I know you thrive on opposition.

[Robert Camp]

On 11/10/16 7:53 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:

> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:10:02 AM UTC-5, Mike Dworetsky wrote:
>> jillery wrote:
>>> The topic title says it all.
>>

>> Well, he said he wanted a "Brexit" for America. In Britain that resulted in
>> the pound dropping by almost 20%, and I understand there is now a big drop
>> on many world stock markets and a decline in the dollar as well as the
>> Mexican peso. Buy gold, perhaps.
>

> Joe Cummings said that the big drop was a temporary jolt, followed
> by a rebound. What do you say to that?

>
>> And think about installing a nuclear
>> shelter if you can afford it?
>

> I keep hearing this scare talk about a Trump presidency making
> WWIII likely, but I never saw any statement by Trump that would
> account for it.
>
> Can you help me out here?

I think "more likely" may miss the reality of a relatively small
increase in probability, but if you can't put this "2",

https://thinkprogress.org/9-terrifying-things-donald-trump-has-publicly-said-about-nuclear-weapons-99f6290bc32a#.k7nfzwlzg

...and this "2",

"And by the way, with Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers
with their little boats and they make gestures that our people -- that
they shouldn't be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water."

...together, then you can't add.

>> Does Obama have time left to fire the FBI Director? His announcement of an
>> "investigation" was enough to tip the polls against Clinton, and his
>> retraction came too late to have an effect.
>

> What polls? The consensus at this university is that most if not
> all the polls were misleading.
>
> If that's not the kind of "polls" you are talking about, then let
> me ask: do you think this one announcement made all the difference
> in the results of the election?
>
> Peter Nyikos
>
>
>
>
> '

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 22:40:25 +0100, "Rolf" <rolf.a...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[...]

>With his proven inabilty to understand science, a failed life project of
>tearing down Darwin, his praise of Ayn Rand, Immanuel Velikovsky and other
>crackpots, it is not to be expected that Ray should understand world
>affairs, politics, or other subjects that matter. Creationism, twisted
>logic, redefinitions and misrepresentation are his main and miserable
>contributions to the world.
>
>He is relieved that a person like me says things like i do about him. Have
>to disappoint you dear Ray, I don't have time to waste on something as
>irrelvant as you, your opinion and ideas.
>But I sometimes enjoy making a comment, I know you thrive on opposition.

My guess is you meant to attach your comments to Ray's post, which
immediately follows chronologically.

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 11:36:37 -0800 (PST), Peter Nyikos

>> As-sal?mu ?alaykum. That

>> should get me into Gitmo.
>
>Hence my question about Mark's more expansive piece of paranoia.
>Unlike yours, it isn't easy to shrug off as just another
>bit of flippancy.
>
>Your kind is so used to seeing the word "paranoia" and its
>derivatives misused on talk.origins, the original meaning
>is something you cannot seem to remember when it applies to you.
>
>[END OF REPOST]
>
>Well, I suppose Hemidactylus will take advantage of my senior moment
>to pretend he never wrote anything paranoid. Live and learn.

You bother not to identify what you claim to be "Mark's more expansive
piece of paranoia". And even if you had, it almost certainly wouldn't
be relevant here.

As for Hemidactylus' alleged paranoia, I presume you refer to his
comment "that should get me into Gitmo". Apparently you're unaware
that various agencies routinely collect references to keywords from
any and all communications, almost certainly including Usenet.

My impression is his comment is but a snarky reference to that fact,
no paranoia involved.

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 12:49:57 -0800 (PST), Peter Nyikos
<nyi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 2:55:02 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
>> Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>> >> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> The topic title says it all.
>> >>
>> >> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>> >>
>> > Then get the fuck out.
>>
>> Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
>> please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
>> stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
>> give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.
>
>Glenn, a willing dissent crusher, when he is one of the most dogged
>dissenters in this newsgroup, and one far less able to work his will
>on talk.origins than you are?

It's really hard to tell whether Glenn is a dissenter, dogged or
otherwise, as he rarely expresses an actual opinion about anything
being discussed. Instead, his "dissent" usually consists of ambiguous
links and quotes, gratuitous personal insults, and incoherent
comments. Since you use the latter two so often yourself, that
explains why you conflate his trolling with dissent.

>You remind me of the time I was in first grade, one day when were told
>to line up after the bell rang for classes in order of height, shortest first.
>
>The tallest boy in the class came "walking" forward in a deep crouch that
>put his head below waist level. In a piping, high-pitched voice different
>from his usual one, he said, "What about poor little me?"
>
>Peter Nyikos

[Ray Martinez]

If that's all you can find then you have nothing.

We don't START wars.

IF we go to war with Iran its because they started it. You don't know Iran has the goals of Nazi Germany?

Robert, like Obama, believes in peace at any cost.

Ray

[jillery]

Apparently you have oh-so-coveniently forgotten the U.S.-Iraq War, the
one Bush junior was so anxious to "not start", we didn't have enough
soldiers to guard the armories from being looted, nor enough equipment
to keep the soldiers we had from being blown up with IEDs.

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:04:05 -0700, "Glenn" <g...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Since you asked, nowhere. Did you have a point?

[jillery]

Your comments imply their "huge differences" are a wash, that Trump's
willful stupidity is no worse than whatever beef you have with
Clinton.

>> Trump is the personification of Dunning-Kruger.
>
>I hope, for America's sake, that you are wrong.
>
>> Whatever your beef is with Clinton, you can't honestly say the same
>> about her.
>
>Perhaps not, but I could say lots about her that I can't say about
>Trump, beginning with four Americans who lost their lives in Benghazi
>because their pleas for better security went unheeded.

Blaming Clinton for Benghazi and those deaths is pure politics.

>I think part of the reason is that Clinton, as Secretary of State,
>endorsed Obama's myth that the overthrow and assassination of Gaddafi had
>brought a much better "Arab Spring" order to Libya. Providing more security
>would have been an admission that we could not trust the new government to
>provide all necessary security.
>
>Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

Ah, but let's get at the root of his soreness. I was a bit too humble
when I admitted to a senior moment when I thought that a similarly
paranoid comment by Hemidactylus was actually due to Mark. Seeing Mark's
post again makes me feel a little better; I was obviously confusing
Hemidactylus's paranoia with what I had seen of Mark. Here is
Hemidactylus talking about Glenn:

His truncheon is showing. One wonders when the roundups and deportations
will start, especially for those who "look" or "sound" Hispanic or Muslim,
but why stop there? Nationalism and purity obsession go hand in hand.
Mexicans and Muslims are Other as are feminists, LGBT, and atheists. And
disgusted Americans such as me. We all must go ASAP. Round us up Glenn.

I think Hemi is more than just disgusted. He is like the rabid "progressive"
who wrote the most hateful, paranoid column I have ever seen in a student
newspaper -- and I saw some doozies back in the time of the Vietnam war.
Right in the free (paid out of student activity fees) student newspaper
of the University of South Carolina, The Daily Gamecock:

http://www.dailygamecock.com/article/2016/11/funeral-march-common-man

And Mark isn't far behind, except that he is more careful to talk
in conditional "If" clauses. Still, the extreme rhetoric he loads them
with is very telling of how this election has unsettled his mind.

Even more telling is that Mark left off all conditionals from
"Trump is following the same path as Hitler." That is paranoid,
but as I said to Hemi,

Your kind is so used to seeing the word "paranoia" and its
derivatives misused on talk.origins, the original meaning
is something you cannot seem to remember when it applies to you.

Peter Nyikos

[Ray Martinez]

We didn't START that war: Saddam started that war when he refused unimpeded inspection access to his country. I remember, I was alive, so I don't have to look anything up or rely on what someone else says.

Since he had no WMDs, why did he deny access and start a war?

We know Iran is building a WMD. We should issue an ultimatum: dismantle now, including unimpeded inspections by U.S. experts, or face war.

Ray

[Ray Martinez]

I read your message.

Ray

[Peter Nyikos]

I had seen one earlier today, and I quote a sentence from it below.
I had forgotten its details when I wrote the above,
and confused it with a similarly paranoid paragraph by Hemidactylus,
still up there.

> >> Where do you see anyone mentioning Mark Isaak?
> >> --
> >Where do you see anyone mentioning Hitler?
>
>
> Since you asked, nowhere.

Ah, then, you missed the screed from Mark where he posted the following:

"Trump is following the same path as Hitler."

It should be a cinch for you to find the post where he said that, since he
hasn't posted much to this thread yet. What's more, it was made 23 hours
ago, when there were still very few posts to this thread.

I guess that you, like a number of other people I could name, only
see the posts that you want to see.

> Did you have a point?

Give that dated old line a rest. It's so...1990's.

Peter Nyikos

[Burkhard]

So you don't think that violating another state's sovereignty like this
is an act of war? What if France decided tomorrow that it would like to
inspect the US military arsenal?

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 15:17:37 -0800 (PST), Peter Nyikos

That's a different thread, and not equivalent to your unsupported
assertion about Isaak.

>It should be a cinch for you to find the post where he said that, since he
>hasn't posted much to this thread yet. What's more, it was made 23 hours
>ago, when there were still very few posts to this thread.

So what's your excuse for not supporting your own arguments?

>I guess that you, like a number of other people I could name, only
>see the posts that you want to see.
>
>
>> Did you have a point?
>
>Give that dated old line a rest. It's so...1990's.
>
>Peter Nyikos

One can only wonder why you have no signature here mentioning your
association with CSU. Is that so 1990's too?

[Glenn]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:ant92cdhtlr7k4i1i...@4ax.com...

Pure politics to those that survived, and the families of those who didn't?

[jillery]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2016 14:52:48 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez

I was alive then, too. And I remember how Bush chased out the
inspectors from Iraq before they finished their job, almost certainly
because they would have announced there were no WMDs, that Bill
Clinton's no-fly zone and other sanctions worked, and that no invasion
of Iraq was necessary.

>Since he had no WMDs, why did he deny access and start a war?

Since you asked, I'm sure you would willingly allow foreign inspectors
to U.S. most secret installations.

If that's all it takes to start a war, one can only wonder why there
aren't more of them.

Over a decade later, and the Reactionary Right still pimps the same
old propaganda.

>We know Iran is building a WMD. We should issue an ultimatum: dismantle now, including unimpeded inspections by U.S. experts, or face war.

That's what Bush junior did in Iraq. Look how well that worked out.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
results.

[Glenn]

"jillery" <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:go1a2cl4hmghg0ici...@4ax.com...

I don't wonder, "Jillery".

[*Hemidactylus*]

We went in under BS pretense because neocons had raging erections for
Saddam even before Dubya or 9-11. We diverted our resources from legit
purposes in Afghanistan where we had Taliban and their al Qaida pals on
their heels. We toppled a secular Baathist regime and created a vacuum for
the radical jihadists to fill so we helped increase the regional footprint
of al Qaida. Our presence next door frightened Iranians and they elected
guano nutter Ahmadinejad who replaced a more reformist predecessor
Khatami.

> Since he had no WMDs, why did he deny access and start a war?
>
> We know Iran is building a WMD. We should issue an ultimatum: dismantle
> now, including unimpeded inspections by U.S. experts, or face war.

So let's topple a democratically elected government who admittedly have a
long way to go to become a more open society and wrestle control from the
religious leaders such as the Ayatollah. We can watch that US created
vacuum fill with more radical Hizbollah types who would broaden Shia
radicalism into a more global direction given a perception that US is
destroying Shia. As it stands Shia Hizbollah is a regional bulwark against
Sunni IS incursion into Lebanon just as Saddam was a bulwark in Iraq
against a more belligerent Iran. Now thanks to us Iran has more influence
in Iraq via the Shia there and no love for IS.

Let's not make a big multipolar mess worse by creating another vacuum that
could fuel the rise of Shia global jihadism to rival Sunni jihadism. And
would the Taliban leave a toppled Iran alone? And let's not do great damage
to another generation of US soldiers who would be tasked with carrying out
your Dr Strangelove mission. Let's encourage Iranian youth who are not our
enemies to make their country a more forward one with a more open future.
They might not have quite the deserved distrust of us as their old fogeys
do thanks to the CIA operation to overthrow Mossadegh in 1953.

[Jonathan]

According to the republican investigation the CIA
provided the appropriate security in Benghazi, and
there were no please for help that went unanswered
those are all republican conspiracy theories.

Did Guiliani provide enough security to prevent 9/11?
Of course not, the nature of a terror attack is that
it's unpredictable and we can't provide that kind
of security to every potential target.

The report doesn't slam Clinton at all.

http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/benghazi%20report.pdf

> I think part of the reason is that Clinton, as Secretary of State,
> endorsed Obama's myth that the overthrow and assassination of Gaddafi had
> brought a much better "Arab Spring" order to Libya. Providing more security
> would have been an admission that we could not trust the new government to
> provide all necessary security.
>

That wasn't the case at all, Gaddafi decided to respond
to the Arab Spring the same way Assad did, to kill every
last protester and by the tens of thousands.

The intervention was forced to prevent the impending
slaughter and you'll find precious few Libyans who
are unhappy we took out Gaddafi.

The 'peace and order' of a dictatorship is little more
than the peace and order of a prison. It's easy to mistake
that for something good when the intervention...prevented
Libya from becoming another Syria where a blood soaked
dictator fights an endless war against his own people.

The only reason there was violence after the ouster
is due to that asshole el-Sisi from Egypt supporting
Haftar, he decided to take the other half of Libya
by force, much like el-Sisi gunned down thousands
of protesters on his first day in office.

But the fledgling government is slowly taking hold.

el-Sisi is taking Egypt right down the toilet with
his ultra repression. Egypt will be collapsing just
about the time Libya finally finds some democratic
stability.




> Peter Nyikos
>

[Jonathan]

Did Guiliani protect New Yorkers on 9/11?

You don't see the democrats running around yelling
....9/11...9/11...9/11.. and blaming it on Guiliani
or Bush or anyone else just to get votes.

The republican report on Benghazi doesn't slam Clinton at all.
The nature of terrorism is that there will always be a
soft target, it's not possible to defend every potential
target from a random attack.


http://intelligence.house.gov/sites/intelligence.house.gov/files/documents/benghazi%20report.pdf




s

[Jonathan]

On 11/10/2016 5:52 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:

>
> We know Iran is building a WMD. We should issue an ultimatum: dismantle now, including unimpeded inspections by U.S. experts, or face war.
>

You don't keep up with current events, we just got
Iran to destroy 98% of it's nuclear stockpile
including 100% of it's weapons grade material.

And Iran poured cement into it's key bomb making
facilities, destroyed most of their centrifuges
while agreeing to regular stringent UN inspections
of ALL it's nuclear facilities.

They already gave up their nuclear program.

We already got what we want, and the agreement is
for 15 years, by then Khamenei will be dead
and Iran won't be a threat anymore.

I mean read the news once in a while...


> Ray
>

[r3p...@gmail.com]

Not true.

Saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in----that's what started the war. He was told you have a certain amount of time, that time passed, Bush went in.

>
>
> >Since he had no WMDs, why did he deny access and start a war?
>
>
> Since you asked, I'm sure you would willingly allow foreign inspectors
> to U.S. most secret installations.
>
> If that's all it takes to start a war, one can only wonder why there
> aren't more of them.
>
> Over a decade later, and the Reactionary Right still pimps the same
> old propaganda.
>
>
> >We know Iran is building a WMD. We should issue an ultimatum: dismantle now, including unimpeded inspections by U.S. experts, or face war.
>
>
> That's what Bush junior did in Iraq. Look how well that worked out.
>
> Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different
> results.
> --
> This space is intentionally not blank.

The difference is, like I pointed out, we know they are pursuing nuclear weapons. Your mindset seems not to care that a Muslim theocracy, with admitted admiration of Nazi Germany, and an admitted goal of destroying Israel, is openly pursuing nuclear weapons.

I'm so glad the American people have slapped Obama's face hard. His precious legacy is ruined. He thought he could get away unscathed.

Ray

[Jonathan]

Trump used a classic neo-fascist campaign strategy
which is to blame immigrants (or jews etc) for
everything. Make enemies of both the left /and/ right
as Mussolini did. Then claim the whole system
is so corrupt it must be completely rebuilt.

And only a strong man dictator can quash
the status quo and accomplish a complete
rebuilding.

Worked for Hitler, for Mussolini, Putin and
many others.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-fascism

But if Trump is anything he's a bullshit artist
it's anyone's guess what his real policies will be.

[r3p...@gmail.com]

America has a long history of military intervention. Your comment assumes intervention is immoral and unlawful. Your comment assumes there is no justification for intervention, which is clearly immoral. If Iran had our power they would destroy Israel and us without hesitation.

Ray

[Jonathan]

On 11/10/2016 3:57 PM, Glenn wrote:
>
> "Mark Isaak" <eciton@curiousta/xyz/xonomy.net> wrote in message news:o02em1$9nr$2...@dont-email.me...
>> On 11/10/16 2:58 AM, joecummin...@gmqil.com wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Second, I notice that there was a jolt in the stockmarkets, followed
>>> by a quick recovery. Does this mean that the expectations of
>>> investors is that Trump won't make any big changes to the economic
>>> situation - that in the eyes of investors he's a safe pair of hands?
>>
>> That was the biggest surprise to me. There are few things investors
>> hate more than uncertainty, and there is nothing that Trump offers more
>> of, at this point, than uncertainty.
>>
> Do you really think the recent fluctuations are being caused by "investors"?
>


Who else?

If you look at the 6 month chart the resistance is at
around 18,500. It just broke through that resistance
and hopefully 18,500 will be the new support level.
If so that's bullish.


http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=djia&insttype=&freq=1&show=&time=7

[Glenn]

"Jonathan" <wr...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:NNmdnSwcO4NvjrjF...@giganews.com...

Actually, yes.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> "Bob Casanova" <nos...@buzz.off> wrote in message
> news:5la92cdfse72eimvb...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 13:51:03 -0600, the following appeared
>> in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
>> <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

>>
>>> Glenn <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:su-dnZTT585grr7F...@giganews.com...
>>>>> jillery <69jp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The topic title says it all.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am sincerely embarrassed to be American.
>>>>>
>>>> Then get the fuck out.
>>>

>>> Contrary to your love it or leave it attitude I can feel any damn way I
>>> please. Why don't you go somewhere else where that sort of authoritarian
>>> stance is well regarded such as North Korea, China, or Russia where they
>>> give jobs to willing dissent crushers as yourself.
>>

>> Hear, hear!
>> --
> You're hailing "why don't you go somewhere else"?


You originally commanded me "Then get the fuck out." I took that hostile
utterance as a credible threat and kindly pointed out that there are
countries where such authoritarian attitudes are accepted and ironically
*you* belong there. Apparently after this election the US could join the
list of dissent adverse repressive states.

[Glenn]

"*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message news:RpydnTHOHJOrrbjF...@giganews.com...

What utter horseshit.

[*Hemidactylus*]

Peter Nyikos <nyi...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 7:35:02 PM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[snip]

>> As-salāmu ʿalaykum. That
>> should get me into Gitmo.
>
> Hence my question about Mark's more expansive piece of paranoia.
> Unlike yours, it isn't easy to shrug off as just another
> bit of flippancy.

You do know what As-salāmu ʿalaykum means right? As someone who probably
relies on foreign talent for good students do you wonder if very negative
perception abroad might impact the available pool of talent for your
university? Especially NOW!!!!


> Your kind

That's not hateful. Or stereotypical. My kind? WTF. Don't let Glenn get
wind of this lest I wind up in one of his deportation camps. He just named
his truncheon "Lucille" which is ironic really. The barbed wire wrap is
gratuitous.

> is so used to seeing the word "paranoia" and its
> derivatives misused on talk.origins, the original meaning
> is something you cannot seem to remember when it applies to you.

And it was Harsh calling you out for thinking I would email him? You still
don't see how that looks odd at face value? Me and Harsh don't quite mesh.
You missed that. But don't let it disrupt your repetitive narrative.
Everyone who doesn't compare notes in private is out to get you? And I'm
the paranoid one here?

[Robert Camp]

You consider utter ignorance of nuclear issues coupled with an unhinged
willingness to blow people out of the water for flipping the bird - in a
president - to be "nothing"? Your inability to deal with reality appears
to extend to politics.

> We don't START wars.

Who's we? Never heard of the Monroe Doctrine? And what makes you think
Trump feels bound by that any particular historical convention when he
can't even find in himself the fortitude to adhere to social and sexual
ones?

> IF we go to war with Iran its because they started it.

Fascinating. Your penchant for unfalsifiable rationalization remains an
example of true cognitive deficiencies.

> You don't know
> Iran has the goals of Nazi Germany?

> Robert, like Obama, believes in peace at any cost.

That, of course, is nonsense on both counts, and in the case of Obama is
demonstrated by a simple of review of the last 8 years to be counterfactual.

[Glenn]

"*Hemidactylus*" <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote in message news:O_WdnWkbU-dX2rjF...@giganews.com...

I'd say schizophrenic.

[Burkhard]

No, I'm saying tht t is "starting a war" which is the thing under
discussion,

Your comment assumes there is no justification for intervention, which
is clearly immoral. If Iran had our power they would destroy Israel and
us without hesitation.
>

Ray comes out in favour of murdering more people. So why am i not surprised?

> Ray
>

[Mike Dworetsky]

Ray, are you forgetting little things like the second (or third) Gulf War
under GW Bush? The US did start this war, which was not needed and led to
some very bad consequences that we are still dealing with today.

And Vietnam was pretty much an American start-up after taking on the French
legacy following Dien-Bien-Phu in the 1950s. JFK was desperately trying to
get the US out of it when he was assassinated. LBJ ended up presiding over
a war with around 500,000 Americans in the field.

You would like to think America doesn't start wars, but you are mistaken.