What does one self-identified Christian leader pray for?

[jillery]

<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>

<https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>


Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
and alcoholics.

I suppose that helps him meditate as well.

--
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Attributed to Voltaire

[zencycle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY

Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv?
Dialing for dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv?

Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town?
Im counting on you, lord, please dont let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town?

Everybody!
Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends,
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?

[Peter Nyikos]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:

> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
>
> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
>
>
> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
> and alcoholics.
>
> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.

He makes a mockery of everything Jesus said about the poor.
And also of what Jesus said to the rich young man.

The article doesn't say anything about that. The irony of
the following use of "the Gospel of Jesus Christ" goes un-noted:

needs one of the most luxurious private jets today
in order to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


The big departure from just reporting on the televangelists was
in a completely different direction:

The preacher was asked to clarify his remarks last month by
"Inside Edition" reporter Lisa Guerrero, and the exchange
has recently gone viral, reigniting conversations about
televangelists and the tax-exempt status of churches.

The implicit editorializing in the last line contrasts with
the effect of the following amendment:

televangelists and the tax-exempt status the wealthy ones enjoy.


Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Wednesday, June 5, 2019 at 11:45:03 AM UTC-4, zencycle wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
> > <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
> >
> > <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
> >
> >
> > Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
> > and alcoholics.
> >
> > I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
> >
> > --
> > I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
> >
> > Evelyn Beatrice Hall
> > Attributed to Voltaire
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qev-i9-VKlY

This old song by Janis Joplin is about "petty cash" stuff
compared to what Oral Roberts, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis,
Mike Murdock -- all described in the Washington Post article
-- and now Kenneth Copeland have at their disposal.

OTOH it might be spot-on for the kinds of ordinary people
that get suckered into chipping in for the expenses of
shady folks like the above.

> Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?

Copeland: a Rolls-Royce AND a Lamborghini Aventador

> My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends.
> Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
> So lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
>
> Oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv?

Copeland: my own movie theater on the Creation Museum grounds
where I can charge people for looking at "must see" films
I tell them about while preaching the <wink, wink>
Gospel of Jesus Christ.

> Dialing for dollars is trying to find me.
> I wait for delivery each day until three,
> So oh lord, wont you buy me a color tv?
>
> Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town?

This is probably more along the lines of the televangelist
who, right around the time of Oral Roberts's campaign
to "save my life by giving me big bucks,"
was caught cheating on his wife with prostitutes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Swaggart

[EXCERPTS:]

In 1988, Swaggart was implicated in a sex scandal involving a
prostitute that resulted initially in his suspension, and ultimately
defrocking, by the Assemblies of God. Three years later Swaggart was
implicated in another scandal involving a prostitute.
...
On February 21, 1988, without giving any details regarding his
transgressions, Swaggart gave his now-infamous "I have sinned" speech.
He spoke tearfully to his family, congregation, TV audience,
and finally said "I have sinned against You, my Lord, and I would
ask that Your Precious Blood would wash and cleanse every stain
until it is in the seas of God's forgetfulness,
not to be remembered against me anymore."
...
On October 11, 1991, Swaggart was found in the company of a prostitute
for a second time. He was pulled over by a police officer in Indio,
California, for driving on the wrong side of the road.
...
This time, rather than confessing to his congregation, Swaggart
told those at Family Worship Center, "The Lord told me it's flat
none of your business."[13] Swaggart's son Donnie then
announced to the stunned audience that his father would be temporarily
stepping down as head of Jimmy Swaggart Ministries for
"a time of healing and counseling."[12]

The sex scandal of 1988 was just the tip of the iceberg.

Swaggart's exposure came as retaliation for an incident in 1986
when Swaggart exposed fellow Assemblies of God minister
Marvin Gorman, who had been accused of having several affairs.
Once exposed, Gorman was defrocked from the Assemblies of God,
his ministry all but ended. [*ibid*]

Gorman then did a bit of private sleuthing that led to the public
knowing about the 1988 incident.

Gorman offered to remain silent if Swaggart would state
publicly that he lied about Gorman's affairs.
Gorman waited almost a year, then hand-delivered
a note to Swaggart informing him his time was up;
Swaggart did not respond.

Gorman went public with the evidence, and the rest is history--
EXCEPT the truth of whether Gorman had actually had "several affairs."
There is no entry for Gorman on Wikipedia, nor for the author of the
book for which this entry relies for details, nor for the book itself.
And there is little point in pursuing a trail that is almost three
decades old.

> Im counting on you, lord, please dont let me down.
> Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
> Oh lord, wont you buy me a night on the town?

I suspect Copeland has learned enough from the Swaggart incident
to avoid saying this kind of "prayer".

> Everybody!
> Oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?
> My friends all drive porsches, I must make amends,
> Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
> So oh lord, wont you buy me a mercedes benz?

It would be nice to have details on what a typical
"prosperity gospel" sermon by Copeland is like.
If it is as crass as that of "Reverend Ike," Copeland
is probably best viewed as an apostate to the Christian faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Ike


Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:

> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
>
> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
>
>
> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
> and alcoholics.
>
> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.

How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip without going
into the issue of how your use of "self-identified Christian leader"
relates to the reality of Kenneth Copeland's behavior. This includes
especially the "leader" part.

In reply to zencycle, I broached the question of whether it
is appropriate to regard Copeland (and, for that matter, the
other money-grubbing televangelists named in the article you linked)
as an apostate to Christianity.

Are you trying to keep your "No true Scotsman fallacy" options
open by not dealing with this question?


Peter Nyikos

[Bill]

The saddest thing about televangelists is not that they are
leaders but that they have followers. While "leaders"
perfect their craft to lure in the hapless, followers never
learn.

Bill

[jillery]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:52:44 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
>>
>> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
>>
>>
>> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
>> and alcoholics.
>>
>> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
>
>How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip

That's what Kenneth Copeland is quoted to have said. Right here would
have been a good place to have identified your evidence to the
contrary. That you didn't suggests you have none and are just posting
noise because you have no idea what you're talking about and are proud
of it.

>without going
>into the issue of how your use of "self-identified Christian leader"

That's how Kenneth Copeland identifies himself. Right here would have
been a good place to have identified your evidence to the contrary.
That you didn't suggests you have none and are just posting noise
because you have no idea what you're talking about and are proud of
it.

>relates to the reality of Kenneth Copeland's behavior. This includes
>especially the "leader" part.

Kenneth Copeland runs the Texas-based Kenneth Copeland Ministries. His
personal net worth in 2018 was $750 million, mostly from his
activities associated with KCM.

>In reply to zencycle, I broached the question of whether it
>is appropriate to regard Copeland (and, for that matter, the
>other money-grubbing televangelists named in the article you linked)
>as an apostate to Christianity.
>
>Are you trying to keep your "No true Scotsman fallacy" options
>open by not dealing with this question?

Are you trying to keep your "nothing meaningful to say" persona alive
by alluding to facts not in evidence?


>Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:52:44 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
> >> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
> >>
> >> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
> >>
> >>
> >> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
> >> and alcoholics.
> >>
> >> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
> >
> >How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip
>
>
> That's what Kenneth Copeland is quoted to have said.

Yup. Gossip is often true as far as it goes, but it is like
a quote mine. And so your forumlaic, mindless reply misses
the point:

> Right here would have
> been a good place to have identified your evidence to the contrary.
> That you didn't suggests you have none and are just posting noise
> because you have no idea what you're talking about and are proud of
> it.

> >without going
> >into the issue of how your use of "self-identified Christian leader"
>
>
> That's how Kenneth Copeland identifies himself.

I don't see any explicit suggestion in the article you linked
about the "leader" part. What are YOU reading as claiming
any sort of leadership?

> Right here [continued as before]

Your mindless drivel ignores the purpose of the first
half of my sentence, made plain in the second half:

> >relates to the reality of Kenneth Copeland's behavior. This includes
> >especially the "leader" part.
>
>
> Kenneth Copeland runs the Texas-based Kenneth Copeland Ministries. His
> personal net worth in 2018 was $750 million, mostly from his
> activities associated with KCM.

What's that got to do with being a *leader* of Christians? Or with
him still being a Christian rather than an apostate like "Reverend Ike"
evidently was?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverend_Ike

> >In reply to zencycle, I broached the question of whether it
> >is appropriate to regard Copeland (and, for that matter, the
> >other money-grubbing televangelists named in the article you linked)
> >as an apostate to Christianity.
> >
> >Are you trying to keep your "No true Scotsman fallacy" options
> >open by not dealing with this question?

You ducked my question. Perhaps you were also hoping I would duck yours:

>
> Are you trying to keep your "nothing meaningful to say" persona alive
> by alluding to facts not in evidence?

At this point, we both lack the requisite information about Copeland,
but perhaps a diligent search of the internet will either convict him
or exonerate him of being an apostate.

What I was referring to is your evident distaste for finding
out enough about Copeland to tell. And now you are showing
your distaste for behaving like a responsible adult.


Peter Nyikos

[jillery]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:47:03 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos

<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:52:44 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
>> >> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
>> >>
>> >> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away from demons
>> >> and alcoholics.
>> >>
>> >> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
>> >
>> >How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip
>>
>>
>> That's what Kenneth Copeland is quoted to have said.
>
>Yup. Gossip is often true as far as it goes, but it is like
>a quote mine. And so your forumlaic, mindless reply misses
>the point:

Your formulaic mindless and evasive reply disquaifies you from
complaining about alleged same from me. Tu quoque back atcha,
asshole.

>> Right here would have
>> been a good place to have identified your evidence to the contrary.
>> That you didn't suggests you have none and are just posting noise
>> because you have no idea what you're talking about and are proud of
>> it.

And you *still* haven't. Is anybody surprised.


<snip your remaining repetitive irrelevant spew>

[Oxyaena]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Prosperity_gospel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

You're welcome.

Maybe next time actually do this work for yourself instead of being a
lazy shithead relying on others to do all the work for you.



--
"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without
evidence." - The Hitch

https://peradectes.wordpress.com/

[Oxyaena]

On 6/11/2019 1:47 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
[snip loaded questions and pathetic weaseling]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

[Peter Nyikos]

On Tuesday, June 11, 2019 at 12:25:04 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
> Peter Nyikos wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 11:10:04 AM UTC-4, jillery
> > wrote:
> >> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-it-s-a-biblical-thing/ar-AAClpZV?li=BBnb7Kz>
> >>
> >> <https://tinyurl.com/y56otdza>
> >>
> >>
> >> Short answer: a fleet of private jets so he can stay away
> >> from demons and alcoholics.

That is a stunning contrast with Jesus, who mingled freely with
some people who were shunned even more than alcoholics in his time.
But jillery has no interest in making such comparisons.

Of course, the Bible also depicts Jesus casting out demons and
entering into a battle of wits with "the devil" who gave
him three temptations that were the subject of a whole chapter
in Dostoyevsky's masterpiece, _The Brothers Karamazov_

> >> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
> >
> > How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip without
> > going into the issue of how your use of "self-identified
> > Christian leader" relates to the reality of Kenneth
> > Copeland's behavior. This includes especially the "leader"
> > part.
> >
> > In reply to zencycle, I broached the question of whether
> > it is appropriate to regard Copeland (and, for that
> > matter, the other money-grubbing televangelists named in
> > the article you linked) as an apostate to Christianity.
> >
> > Are you trying to keep your "No true Scotsman fallacy"
> > options open by not dealing with this question?
> >
> >
> > Peter Nyikos
>
> The saddest thing about televangelists is not that they are
> leaders but that they have followers. While "leaders"
> perfect their craft to lure in the hapless, followers never
> learn.

It's a sorry sort of "leadership" that "leads" an audience to
make "sacrificial offerings" that mostly go into enriching the "leader"
without feeding them the FULL Gospel of Jesus, including his "woe to the
rich," and "blessed are the poor" and "it's easier for a camel to go
through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom
of heaven."

I use the word "feed" figuratively, but how much has Copeland
contributed to the worldly needs of the poor from his vast wealth?
Jesus said to Peter, "Feed my lambs...Tend my sheep...Feed my sheep"
[John 21:15-17]; he does not say,

Get my lambs and my sheep to feed you and tend you so that you may
grow enormously wealthy.



Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

A reminder: I am boycotting all posts by Oxyaena for the rest of 2019,
for reasons explained here:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/6NKAJVC9ibI/nO4Xri2UBgAJ
Subject: Boycott of Erik Simpson and `Oxyaena' ATTN: DIG
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2019 09:03:14 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <eafd9791-05a9-4533...@googlegroups.com>

and here, on the same Subject: line, and on the same date:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/6NKAJVC9ibI/GCuqml2fBgAJ
Message-ID: <d1820a6a-25a8-4859...@googlegroups.com>

Except for occasional reminders like this, done in direct follow-up
to the posts of Oxyaena, this boycott works like a killfile.

In particular, it does not exclude replying to people who leave in
text from Oxyaena, nor commenting on statements by Oxyaena that were left
in by them.


The boycott has saved me an enormous amount of time, because
I am free to choose those posts where I can make the most
powerful points, often killing two birds with one stone.
An excellent example of this occurred two weeks ago, where
the other "bird" consisted of jillery shackling herself to
a particularly transparent and stupid lie by Oxyaena:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/QWR6N--M754/iTUoa_fABwAJ
Subject: Re: Chez Watt was Re: Mysteries of Evolution: Sexual Reproduction; Part A, meiosis
Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 09:58:55 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <c3adf309-d759-4f96...@googlegroups.com>

The altered Subject: line is due to Oxyaena, whose "OP" would make
a perfect candidate for a real Chez Watt, were that old custom
of talk.origins still in effect.


Peter Nyikos

[Peter Nyikos]

Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:


---------------------------- excerpt ----------------------------

> >> I suppose that helps him meditate as well.
> >

> > How typical of you to go in for superficial gossip without

> > going into the issue of how your use of "self-identified

> > Christian leader" relates to the reality of Kenneth

> > Copeland's behavior. This includes especially the "leader"
> > part.
> >

> > In reply to zencycle, I broached the question of whether
> > it is appropriate to regard Copeland (and, for that
> > matter, the other money-grubbing televangelists named in
> > the article you linked) as an apostate to Christianity.
> >
> > Are you trying to keep your "No true Scotsman fallacy"
> > options open by not dealing with this question?

============================ end of excerpt ====================

The correction emphasized that we do not know, at this point,
whether Copeland is best regarded as an apostate to Christianity,
like the notorious "Reverend Ike."

This question, in turn, depends on whether Copeland gives his "flocks"
(as well as needy people of any kind) the sort of help, both material and
spiritual, that the Bible exhorts people, especially their leaders,
to give. See my reply to Bill about half an hour ago on this thread.


Jillery is a superficial, run of the mill atheist who loves to gossip
about people like Copeland but has absolutely no interest in knowing
what, if anything, they give in return for the huge material benefits
they get.


I am interested, but if no one else shows interest in knowing about this,
then I will look for the information when it is most convenient for me,
rather than waste time giving it to people who don't care about
it one way or the other.

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if any atheists posting to talk.origins
were to show interest in knowing about this. After all, none of them except
zencycle and Oxyaena has even shown enough interest in this thread
to post to it, and zencycle disappeared without acknowledging my reply where I
picked up his/her ball and ran with it.

As for Oxyaena, see the post I did where I reminded readers about
my boycott of her posts for the rest of 2019. "reminded" may not
be the best word, because Bill may not have known about this boycott.

BTW I'm not sure zencycle is an atheist, but her/his certainty that
there is no such thing as objective morality is a strong indication
that [s]he is one. OTOH Oxyaena and jillery are militant atheists.
Oxyaena is especially militant, and contributes articles to RationalWiki,
which gets to looking more and more like a propaganda resource for atheists
and Marxists the more I read it.


Peter Nyikos

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 12:03 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
[snip dick-waving]

Oh no, the dreaded boycott! Whatsoever will I do now?!

[Bob Casanova]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com>:

>A reminder: I am boycotting...,blah, blah, blah...

So?
--

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov

[Bob Casanova]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:37:36 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid>:

>On 6/14/2019 12:03 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:

>[snip dick-waving]
>
>Oh no, the dreaded boycott! Whatsoever will I do now?!

Count your blessings?

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 2:09 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:37:36 -0400, the following appeared
> in talk.origins, posted by Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid>:
>
>> On 6/14/2019 12:03 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
>
>> [snip dick-waving]
>>
>> Oh no, the dreaded boycott! Whatsoever will I do now?!
>
> Count your blessings?
>

1, 2, 3, 4....

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 12:33 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
[snip mindless pontificating]

> Oxyaena is especially militant, and contributes articles to RationalWiki,
> which gets to looking more and more like a propaganda resource for atheists
> and Marxists the more I read it.

I believe they call this "poisoning of the well" and "red-baiting."

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red-baiting

[Peter Nyikos]

On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com>:
>
> >A reminder: I am boycotting

Oxyaena. Are you afraid even to leave her moniker in? It appears so
from what you wrote next:

> ...,blah, blah, blah...

> So?

So, you are extremely happy with running interference for
someone who loves to trumpet her use of killfiles, and
you seem also happy with her trumpeting.


More to the point, your "So?" amounts to a burial of your head in the sand
about the contents of the following post, made directly in reply to you.

______________________________ begin included post _________________


On Friday, March 29, 2019 at 2:35:03 PM UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2019 08:14:48 -0700 (PDT), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
> <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
>
> >On Thursday, March 28, 2019 at 8:10:03 AM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
> >> On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 17:06:53 -0700 (PDT), the following

> >> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos

> >> <nyi...@bellsouth.net>:
> >>
> >> >A reminder: I am boycotting all posts by Erik Simpson for the rest of 2019
> >>
> >> I'm sure he's devastated...
>
> >I am desolate.

Erik is sarcastic. As were you.


> Yeah, I thought I heard "OH, THE HORROR!!!" from you... ;-)

Thanks for confirming that Erik is sarcastic here.

> >Actually, I think it's funny.

What Erik claims to think is funny is the following bare-faced lie
by himself:

> Peters still "answers" me as
> >much as he ever did, but it's more difficult as he has to do it while pretending
> >to respond to someone else.

There is no pretense, see below. I always address the other person as
well, like here, thereby killing two birds with one stone. I usually
couldn't do that when Erik wasn't being boycotted.

Also, I get to do it a lot less, because people know that
I am not expected to set the record straight
about Erik and Oxyaena's virulently derogatory comments about me
when no one answers the offending post.

And so I waste a lot less time on Erik and Oxyaena than I used to.

Back on the thread where I announced the boycott, I was freed
of this burden by and large, because almost all posts by
Erik and Oxyaena went unanswered.

Harshman is not naive, and neither is Erik, and neither
are you, Bob, and so you know these things even if, by a hideously
minuscule chance, you did not know one or the other of them before.

And so, Harshman's claim that my boycott was "absurd" was the
height of insincerity.


> > That makes him even harder to understand and it
> >makes him look silly, but I doubt he's aware of that.

Erik is ignoring the fact that the people who DO reply to his
posts are enabling me to tell the person the real lowdown
on what Erik is up to. If that person is someone like you,
Casanova, I'm letting other readers see how that person is playing
"see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil" wrt Erik AT BEST
and aiding, abetting, and comforting him at the worst.

In your case, this time around, it's a vivid example of the
former but hardly an example of the latter.


OTOH when someone like Glenn replies to Erik or Oxyaena,
that person might well be able to make good use of the information
that I provide.


> And he's been told quite a few times how difficult his
> convoluted posts are to follow,

This post isn't convoluted; almost none of the replies
that Erik is misrepresenting are.

Even Harshman didn't dare claim that my reply to him which
was mostly about Erik's marginally helpful comment on "small pterosaurs,"
was convoluted. He just "pleaded" with me not to "reply to posts
second hand". That was another glaring example of "Do as I say,
not as I do" by Harshman, and another example of the double standards
that are second nature to him.


> with their multiple
> recursions into excerpts from exchanges dating back
> sometimes years.

Let's just stick to what has happened since the boycott began,
shall we?


> As you note, it seems he can't understand
> that, or simply doesn't care if his rants are understood.

Again, you are talking pre-boycott here, or at least NOT
in the category of me talking about Erik's screeds in reply
to someone else's post.


> (Now I expect some comment about my "dishonest" portrayal,

Nah, I see no dishonesty from you here. Your words are in stunning
contrast to Erik's flagrantly dishonest, insincere portrayal.


> or some such idiocy, since no comment about his traits is
> ever made sincerely.)

Quite the master of sarcastic hyperbole, aren't you? Too bad
any bright middle schooler can master it too.


By the way, Bob, you always have the option, when replying
to Erik, of deleting stuff by him, thereby keeping me from
attacking it. Harshman actually deleted EVERYTHING Erik wrote
in a post where he replied to me "second hand".


HANW.


TGIF.


Peter Nyikos

====================================== end of post
archived at:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/MAgP4bAfV40/WzwhBhaiBwAJ
Subject: Re: TOWARDS A SCIENTIFIC THEORY OF MACROEVOLUTION
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2019 15:11:18 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <e5ac4413-1567-477c...@googlegroups.com>


Your Number One Benefactor, John Harshman, behaved as described
above -- right on the same thread. Needless to say, you did NOT advise
him to just ignore the whole boycott, thereby justifying your "So?".


Hemidactylus was the only person who replied to the included post,
and he snipped almost everything in muted solidarity with you -- and
Erik and Oxyaena.


Peter Nyikos

[jillery]

This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
brought to you by:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>A reminder: I am boycotting all posts by Oxyaena for the rest of 2019,
>for reasons explained here:

Who cares besides you?
<snip remaining spew>

[jillery]

This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
brought to you by:

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
>intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
>latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:

Liar.
<snip remaining spew>

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:
> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
> brought to you by:
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
>> intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
>> latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
>
>
> Liar.

So blunt.

> <snip remaining spew>

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 8:13 PM, Dexter wrote:

> Oxyaena,talk.origins wrote:
>
>> On 6/14/2019 12:33 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
>> [snip mindless pontificating]
>>
>>> Oxyaena is especially militant, and contributes
>>> articles to RationalWiki, which gets to looking more
>>> and more like a propaganda resource for atheists and
>>> Marxists the more I read it.
>>
>> I believe they call this "poisoning of the well" and
>> "red-baiting."
>>
>> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Red-baiting

> ______________________________________________
>
> You would expect anything less?
>

Not really, no, just thought I'd point it out.

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 4:04 PM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
[snip crotch-jerking]

How is any of this relevant to the conversation?

[jillery]

On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:06:41 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid> wrote:

>On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:
>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
>> brought to you by:
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
>>> intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
>>> latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
>>
>>
>> Liar.
>
>So blunt.

True, but also brief, to the point, and correct, by design.

[Bob Casanova]

On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT), the following

appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com>:

>On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), the following
>> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
>> <nyik...@gmail.com>:
>>
>> >A reminder: I am boycotting
>
>Oxyaena. Are you afraid even to leave her moniker in? It appears so
>from what you wrote next:

Nope; sorry. It was an indication that all of your
"boycotts" are essentially irrelevant, and that only you
seem to think they have any significance. That being the
case, the name of any particular "boycottee" is also
irrelevant.

>> ...,blah, blah, blah...
>
>> So?
>
>So, you are extremely happy with running interference for
>someone who loves to trumpet her use of killfiles, and
>you seem also happy with her trumpeting.

Nope; sorry again. She (? How do you know Oxyaena's gender?)
needs no "interference" run; she handles your rants quite
nicely on her own. I simply think you are pathetic.

>More to the point, your "So?" amounts to a burial of your head in the sand
>about the contents of the following post, made directly in reply to you.

I've left this intact so anyone can evaluate it for
themselves and decide how accurate your rant is. IMHO you'd
be better off if you just STFU; the aphorism about opening
one's mouth and removing all doubt seems appropriate.

I believe anyone can properly evaluate the above, both your
March rant and the recent one.

HAND.

[Oxyaena]

On 6/15/2019 3:36 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 2:10:03 PM UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), the following
>>> appeared in talk.origins, posted by Peter Nyikos
>>> <nyik...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> A reminder: I am boycotting
>>
>> Oxyaena. Are you afraid even to leave her moniker in? It appears so
>>from what you wrote next:
>
> Nope; sorry. It was an indication that all of your
> "boycotts" are essentially irrelevant, and that only you
> seem to think they have any significance. That being the
> case, the name of any particular "boycottee" is also
> irrelevant.
>
>>> ...,blah, blah, blah...
>>
>>> So?
>>
>> So, you are extremely happy with running interference for
>> someone who loves to trumpet her use of killfiles, and
>> you seem also happy with her trumpeting.
>
> Nope; sorry again. She (? How do you know Oxyaena's gender?)

I told Peter my gender long ago when I was still Thrinaxodon, I just
don't consider it important enough to be worth mentioning in
talk.origins, "they" is fine. Of course this being Peter, the word
"relevance" holds no actual meaning.

> needs no "interference" run; she handles your rants quite
> nicely on her own. I simply think you are pathetic.

Thank you, and I concur.

>
>> More to the point, your "So?" amounts to a burial of your head in the sand
>> about the contents of the following post, made directly in reply to you.
>
> I've left this intact so anyone can evaluate it for
> themselves and decide how accurate your rant is. IMHO you'd
> be better off if you just STFU; the aphorism about opening
> one's mouth and removing all doubt seems appropriate.

One would need to sew his mouth shut to get him to shut his trap for
once, good luck getting a hold of him without falling afoul of the law
tho....

[snip long, excruciatingly mind-numbing to read rant]

[Oxyaena]

On 6/15/2019 10:27 AM, jillery wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:06:41 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid> wrote:
>
>> On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:
>>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
>>> brought to you by:
>>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
>>>> intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
>>>> latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
>>>
>>>
>>> Liar.
>>
>> So blunt.
>
>
> True, but also brief, to the point, and correct, by design.

Fair, I was just remarking on how bemusing it was.

[Oxyaena]

On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:

> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
> brought to you by:
>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A reminder: I am boycotting all posts by Oxyaena for the rest of 2019,
>> for reasons explained here:
>
>
> Who cares besides you?
> <snip remaining spew>
>

If a Peter yells "CONSPIRACY!!!" in the night, does anyone besides him care?

[jillery]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:27:21 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@is.not.here>
wrote:

>On 6/15/2019 10:27 AM, jillery wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:06:41 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:
>>>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
>>>> brought to you by:
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>>>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
>>>>> intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
>>>>> latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Liar.
>>>
>>> So blunt.
>>
>>
>> True, but also brief, to the point, and correct, by design.
>
>Fair, I was just remarking on how bemusing it was.

Me too.

[Bob Casanova]

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:28:01 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Oxyaena <oxy...@is.not.here>:

>On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:
>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
>> brought to you by:
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:03:18 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> A reminder: I am boycotting all posts by Oxyaena for the rest of 2019,
>>> for reasons explained here:
>>
>>
>> Who cares besides you?
>> <snip remaining spew>
>>
>
>If a Peter yells "CONSPIRACY!!!" in the night, does anyone besides him care?

Not me. Peter, of course, considers that lack of caring to
be indicative of the depth of the "conspiracies" he sees all
around.

[Peter Nyikos]

On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 8:20:02 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote sheer garbage:

<snip first installment of jillery garbage>

>
> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
> >intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
> >latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
>
>
> Liar.

Prove it. Since you do not explicitly claim that the above is a lie,
any statement of mine from the past will serve -- IF you can prove it
instead of saying things like, "It's been documented hundreds of times,"
when the "documentation" merely consists of you labeling something a
lie without credible evidence that it IS a lie.

[Did you think I would behave like a neophyte and act as though you
had explicitly alleged that the words that you did not snip were a lie?
Your friends would do that for you, but anyone against whom you have adopted
an adversarial position would be walking into a trap thereby.]



Now comes the final installment of your garbage in this post:

> <snip remaining spew>

As has been established beyond a reasonable doubt, "spew" in
the context of polemical replies to me

almost invariably refers to text that justifiably puts you or
your friends in a bad light.

-- https://groups.google.com/d/msg/talk.origins/QWR6N--M754/7eYujW1pAQAJ
Subject: Jillery's use of "spew" unmasked WAS: Re: Chez Watt was Re: Mysteries
of Evolution: ...
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 11:03:14 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <c12979f1-2413-4a2f...@googlegroups.com>

And this latest use of yours is NOT one of the exceptions; in fact,
it exemplifies the usual meaning several times over. That is why you
had to snip all of it, lest you unmask your own use of "spew" on the spot.


Peter Nyikos

[jillery]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 8:20:02 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote sheer garbage:
>
><snip first installment of jillery garbage>

<snip installment of Nyikos the peter garbage>

Thanks for the precedent. You never learn.

[Peter Nyikos]

On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 10:50:02 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 09:27:21 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@is.not.here>
> wrote:

I wonder whether Oxyaena is frustrated by the fact that NO ONE
except her fellow boycottee, Erik Simpson,
has replied to ANY of her nine (9) (so far) posts to the thread,

Subject: OT: Homophobia and Related Concepts and Memes ATTN: Burkhard

unless one counts a follow-up to one of them by myself in which the
text gives no hint of it being a direct follow-up, but instead announces
that I am boycotting Oxyaena posts for the rest of 2019, and gives reasons.
[The only exception to a literal boycott is announcements like the one
I am referring to.]


I do believe the following kindergarten-level exchange between
her and yourself must be balm for a lonely mind.

> >On 6/15/2019 10:27 AM, jillery wrote:
> >> On Sat, 15 Jun 2019 08:06:41 -0400, Oxyaena <oxy...@in.valid> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:

... the first installment of garbage in a pure garbage post:

> >>>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
> >>>> brought to you by:

I snipped it in my reply of a few minutes ago because of its repetitiveness:
the relevant code word "spew" was unmasked at the end of my post,
where it had been again used by yourself.

A (probably) self-defeating "prediction": you will snip the rest of
my post with your usual idiotic patting-of-yourself-on-the-back, with words
to the following effect:

Works for me.

You never learn.

> >>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:33:10 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> >>>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jillery has resorted to snip-n-deceive to hide my patient correction of her
> >>>>> intentional misunderstanding of the words "issue" and "question" [the
> >>>>> latter used twice] in the following reply to her OP:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Liar.
> >>>
> >>> So blunt.
> >>
> >>
> >> True, but also brief, to the point, and correct, by design.
> >
> >Fair, I was just remarking on how bemusing it was.
>
>
> Me too.

Keep patting each other on the back. Casanova will surely enjoy watching
you, and may even decide to join your Thread Diluting KaffeeKlatsch.


Peter Nyikos

[jillery]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:45:47 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:


>Keep patting each other on the back. Casanova will surely enjoy watching
>you, and may even decide to join your Thread Diluting KaffeeKlatsch.

Your thread diluting spam disqualifies you from complaining about
Thread Diluting KaffeeKlatsches. Tu quoque back atcha, asshole.

[Oxyaena]

On 6/17/2019 10:45 AM, Peter Nyikos wrote:
[snip shrieking]

Sounds like someone got off the wrong side of the bed today.

[Peter Nyikos]

On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 10:45:03 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote
nothing but repetitive spew:

> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 8:20:02 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote sheer garbage:
> >
> ><snip first installment of jillery garbage>
>
>
> <snip installment of Nyikos the peter garbage>

I am not snipping anything this time around.

> Thanks for the precedent. You never learn.

As I have indicated numerous times, I've learned long ago
that, when jillery has been shown beyond a reasonable doubt
to have been dishonest, jillery very often seizes upon any snip of mine
and posts one-liners or two liners where she lies through her
teeth with "you never learn."

I even predicted this one, after a fashion. NGG had not yet updated in my
display when I posted the following, a mere 5 minutes before
jillery's mindless one-line appeared:

________________ excerpt ______________________________

> >>> On 6/14/2019 8:18 PM, jillery wrote:

... the first installment of garbage in a pure garbage post:

> >>>> This moment of repetitive irrelevant spew from his puckered sphincter
> >>>> brought to you by:

I snipped it in my reply of a few minutes ago because of its repetitiveness:
the relevant code word "spew" was unmasked at the end of my post,
where it had been again used by yourself.

A (probably) self-defeating "prediction": you will snip the rest of
my post with your usual idiotic patting-of-yourself-on-the-back, with words
to the following effect:


Works for me.

You never learn.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/talk.origins/GdVQyMaeu7c/ArnWVdSXBQAJ
Subject: Re: What does one self-identified Christian leader pray for?
Lines: 70
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:45:47 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <5efae8ee-2348-4ec2...@googlegroups.com>


Peter Nyikos

[jillery]

On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:04:15 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos

<nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 10:45:03 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote
>nothing but repetitive spew:
>
>> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:17:29 -0700 (PDT), Peter Nyikos
>> <nyik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Friday, June 14, 2019 at 8:20:02 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote sheer garbage:
>> >
>> ><snip first installment of jillery garbage>
>>
>>
>> <snip installment of Nyikos the peter garbage>
>
>I am not snipping anything this time around.

How white of you. Apparently you think that singular event washes
away your years of dishonesty and Big Lies.

If you really want to have an actual discussion of substantial issues,
then stop posting repetitive irrelevant spew from your puckered
sphincter. Not sure how even you *still* can't figure that out.