Site Report - Bath Factory Estate Arch no.2

[Tom Newsom]

A bunch of us got shown round the "other arch". This is two doors down from the one we didn't get.

This is the view from just inside the entrance gates:

It's got a roller shutter door with a (short) human-sized hinged door set into it:

It's full of junk and shelves full of books

The walls and ceiling are generally dry, with a little bit of damp/water coming in where there's lining put in. It's in much better condition than the first arch we saw here. There was a small puddle right in the center of the space (the low point). It was hard to see where it came from. Possibly under the front door during the recent rainstorms. Critically, the books are bone dry. Water ingress is a small but manageable problem, compared to the bog-like condition of the first arch. The cubicle structure on the left with the red top is the toilet. It has two WCs and a sink:

  

Grotty, but improvable. The key point is that they exist. The water flows and looks clean but I wouldn't drink it.

At the back is a wood-framed lean-to "office" area. Not particularly well built, but servicable and mostly dry except from some water ingress at the corners.

 

IMO, it's a great opportunity. Large, not too much work needed. great location, usable almost immediately (ie. for actual makerspacing while renovations progress).

Apparently it's available within a matter of weeks. Clearing the junk out is the landlord's responsibility. We can't go into any financial details in public of course, but all signs point to affordable. The landlord was away recently so contact was tricky. Now's back, we should be able to get more details more quickly. We hope to have price/access information soon.

[Matthew Copperwaite]

Beautiful HDR looking photos :)

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[Gordon Endersby]

That sounds really promising.

Gordon

[Tom Newsom]

Rateable value £6,200, on an internal area of 152m²

http://www.2010.voa.gov.uk/rli/en/basic/find/valuation/2010/9276606000/8511905000

On 18 August 2014 14:37, Gordon Endersby <gordon....@googlemail.com> wrote:

That sounds really promising.

Gordon

[Dermot Jones]

So that means we don't get the rates holiday? What would we expect to pay?

D

[Matthew Press]

Thanks Tommen for photos/ writeup and everyone who went. Looks very promising.

On 18 August 2014 15:42, Dermot Jones <dermot...@gmail.com> wrote:

So that means we don't get the rates holiday? What would we expect to pay?

D

[Tom Newsom]

The rates work out to ~£250/month

On 18 August 2014 15:42, Dermot Jones <dermot...@gmail.com> wrote:

So that means we don't get the rates holiday? What would we expect to pay?

D

[Tom Lynch]

Wow! Thats a lot... Is that will SBRR? Also is it Southwark of Lambeth? Could we get DBRR?

Other questions.... Floor plan ... I really don't understand what I am looking at in these photos, is there a video?

Tomski

[Tom Newsom]

I only had my SLR, so no video, but it's not a complicated space. The arch itself is the same width but a bit longer than the first one we looked at, but instead of a full height concrete block and metal extension at the back, there's a timber framed lean-to which has a raised floor and two small "office" rooms. The toilets are immediately on the left as you go through the front door.

The exact amount for rates, using Southwark's 2014/15 small business rate multiplier of 47.1p is £243.35/month

Bear in mind that even if we'd taken the first arch we looked at, we'd be paying a very similar amount after April next year.

As for discretionary relief, I know as much as you do. From what we've heard, Southwark's business rates dept. are not particularly charitable right now.

I've been plugging various scenarios into my Grand Projections spreadsheet and only the most pessimistic ones end up in failure. We will have to see how Dermot's conversation with the landlord goes before taking anything seriously.

[Tom Lynch]

Hey,

I know about the multiplier, interestingly we didn't seem to pay that on the business rates at 27 Norwood Road... Anyway... There is SBRR which is different... 

Less than £6,000 it's 100% until 31st March 2015....

Between £6,001 and £12,000 it decreases from 100% to 0%....

DBRR is as the name suggests Discretionary but if it\s Southwark there is no point asking almost... But we'll try...

Can you PM me the rent and any other costs, deposit he mentioned? It seems like the trustees + Dermot need to conveen on Wednesday if possible to discuss the options.

Tom

[Tom Newsom]

Here's a terrible floor plan. I am a shame to my profession.

​

[Tom Lynch]

This helps!

On 18 Aug 2014, at 23:03, Tom Newsom <tom.n...@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's a terrible floor plan. I am a shame to my profession.

<terribleplan.png>

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[Gordon Endersby]

Would the landlord also clear the junk out front as well?
I should imagine the space at the front of the arch is part of the deal.
We would need to allow access across to the other arches.
but it would be handy to have some outside space to park or use that was allocated to the maker space that other tenants cant block or park on.

Gordon

[Tom Newsom]

We are entitled to the area immediately opposite the front doors, yes.

We haven't had a response from the LL yet (AFAIK. Dermot?), but it is his responsibility to remove any abandonded cars.

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[Tom Newsom]

The Southwark website is quite ambiguous about how the rates work between 6 and 12k. If they were low at 27-29, then that's a good sign.

[Tom Lynch]

Hey

I have no idea what you mean by low at 27-29????

Here is the more information info:

https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-business-rate-relief/small-business-rate-relief

Tom

[Tom Newsom]

No. 27-29 Norwood Road aka The Good Companion

off to bed now :)

[Dermot Jones]

Will try landlord again in the morning.

As of now all rent/deposit/discount  amounts are a guess.

Re: discretionary rate reduction,  an occupant of a larger arch told me that he pays very low rates. But I have no knowledge of how the discretion system works.

This one is also subject to VAT, so it might be worth some investigation into whether we're likely to be able to claim it back, or if we can/should go VAT registered. What do other spaces do?
It would mean more regular accountancy, claiming back VAT on tools etc, and that we change VAT on any goods and services....but presumably not membership as that would cancel any savings.

As has been said already this has far fewer issues than the last arch: front entrance is usable, ceiling is drier, has toilets, concrete slope feels shallower....no soaking back wall. Not nearly as musty as the last one: there are hundreds of books stored there that seem fine. There is definitely water coming under front shutters, but that's sortable.

Dermot.

[Tom Lynch]

Hey....

I don't think it is worth VAT registering because we don't spend enough, £2,000 a year would possibly pay the accountant though?

Not sure... We can ask!

RATES....

Everyone is confused here about Rates....

Start with the VOA ratable value... 

Then apply the multiplier, in our case the London Small Business multiplier...

That is the amount you pay, but there is Small Business Rate Relief (SBRR)... This is not the same as the SB Multiplier...

SBRR is slightly confusing because it has nothing to do with being a Small Business, if the property is your only property, and the property has a rateable value of less than £12,000 there is a percentage discount...

This is a sliding scale from £6,001 - £12,000, 100% discount to 0% i.e. for every £60 over £6,000 you loose a percent...... After March 2015 this goes back to the old system of 50% to 0% so each £120 looses 1%, until you get to 50%...

Dummy calculation A

VOA Ratable Value = £1,000 PA

Example multiplier = 0.5...

Final value = £500 PA

SBRR = 100% discount until March 2015 so there are no rates to pay.

After March it's 50% so £250 PA...

So thats £25 PDM (Per decimalised month - you only pay 10 months the year).

Dummy calculation B

VOA Ratable Value = £14,000 PA

Example multiplier = 0.5...

Final value = £7,000 PA

SBRR = 83%~ until March 2015 thats £5,810

After March it's 

So thats £581 PDM (Per decimalised month - you only pay 10 months the year).

Dummy calculation A

VOA Ratable Value = £50,000 PA

Example multiplier = 0.5...

Final value = £25,000 PA

SBRR = 0% because it is over £12,000 still.

After March it's the same

So thats £2,500 PDM (Per decimalised month - you only pay 10 months the year).

Thanks

Tom

[Dermot Jones]

Thanks Tommel,

That seems like good news, and fits with what I was told by the tenant. An extra £250 a month would not be easy at this stage!

[Tom Lynch]

Yeah, so....

That means the annual rateable value you guys came up with must have been £2,433.50?

Thats so far below £6,000 it will be free until March and then £1,216.70 PA or £121.67 PDM... or about £100 PCM.

Pretty reasonable but with the figures Tommen just showed me that and the rent are way over our monthly income now that we've lost members...

Tomski

On 19 Aug 2014, at 00:26, Dermot Jones <dermot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Tommel,

That seems like good news, and fits with what I was told by the tenant. An extra £250 a month would not be easy at this stage!

[Tom Newsom]

The rateable value is £6200, so apply your calculations to that.

[Tom Newsom]

So hardly anything, just a few quid. I had no idea it worked like that.

[Tom Lynch]

Yeah. I was also wondering if we can apply for retrospective refund on the business rates at 27 under the retail rates relief they are doing.

Sent from my iPhone

[Gordon Endersby]

Whats the latest on the arch against the access storage office?

It must have muddied the waters a bit with regard to the last vote request about access.

Gordon

[Ben Hillyard]

Any more news on contacting the landlord?

[Dermot Jones]

Yes, made contact with the landlord...hoping speak to him again after bank holiday.

D

[Tom Lynch]

The vote was for access but only just and only ⅓ voted at all. 

We are waiting for the landlord still at the bath factory. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Stuart Shum]

Any news about the Arch?

[Tom Lynch]

None yet.

On 28 Aug 2014, at 20:57, Stuart Shum <stu...@shum.cc> wrote:

Any news about the Arch?

[Tom Newsom]

Good news! We have verbal confirmation that the arch is ours.

We're waiting for delivery of the contract documents, which will need careful attention. There is still potential for obstacles to appear, but we are definitely on the right track.

So keep renewing your membership!

We'll be talking all about this at the meeting tonight at The Prince Regent pub, so come along to learn more.

[Gordon Endersby]

Great news.

How has the land lord got on in clearing the junk?

Gordon

[Tom Newsom]

Clearance is underway and will be completed very soon

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[Dermot Jones]

Fingers crossed!

Dermot.

[Ben Heartland]

Woohoo! Great news!

On Wednesday, 3 September 2014, Dermot Jones <dermot...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fingers crossed!

Dermot.

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[toby @ tobyz]

Excellent.

I’m stuck in freelance-land tonight — no pub function room for me — but hope to be painting a big red ‘M’ on the shutter front soon!

Toby

ps. EMF sounded amazing from the write-ups I’ve seen.

[Sarah Barber]

Ace! See you tonite

[Richard Armstrong-Wood]

That's great!

[Andreas Varotsis]

Wehey!

On Thursday, 4 September 2014 09:44:12 UTC+1, Richard Armstrong-Wood wrote:

That's great!

[Gordon Endersby]

Ive been asked, do we still need the scaffold tower for this arch?
Its the one we were offered for use on the last arch.
The owner is willing to keep it for us.
But if we dont need it anymore id like to let him know.

Gordon

[Dermot Jones]

It looks like we will replace and extend the lining, so I reckon we'll need the tower.

D

[Gordon Endersby]

Thanks,
Ill let him know.
Hes bringing round 2 lawnmower decks for helicoil thread repairs and a cement mixer drum for welding this week. So i think thats a good exchange.

Gordon

[Emile swain]

Someone mentioned they might need scaffold planks for the tower, if thats still the case i have a couple you can have when you need them. Though someone might need to come pick them up in a van or something (kennington).

[Gordon Endersby]

Yes please.
When we get in i can pick them up.
I think they should be ok on the roof of my long wheelbase land rover.

Gordon