Rent raise again

[billbowden]

Came home today and discovered an envelope taped on my door. It was a rent
raise of 9% and we just had a rent raise of 8% last May. So, that amounts to
17% in 8 months or approximately 2% per month. I may have to find another
place to live. This place was bought for 3 million in 1986 and is probably
worth 10 million today. The original owner died in 1997 so his widow ownes
it now and can't seem to live on $120,000 a month income minus insurance,
taxes, salaries, and maintenance costs which might be a third that. So, she
only gets $80,000 a month and wants to raise the rent. How greedy can you
get? What a bitch, I hope her husband is burning in hell and she will join
him.
.

[Sang Froid]

So you're saying capitalism is bad and unfair?

Why don't you OWN your own residence instead?

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"billbowden" wrote in message
news:585de2ab$0$10211$c3e8da3$fdf4...@news.astraweb.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

let's see...suppose your rent January 1, 2016 was $100 a month. Then it was
raised 8% in May to $108 a month. Now it is raised another 9%. So after
that 9% raise, the rent is now $117.72. So the raise in eight months is not
17%, but closer to 18%...17.72% to be exact. As hefty a 17% hike is, 17.72%
is much more.

[GLOBALIST]

I got one also, but I think they compare your rent to the rent of other
apartment buildings in your area.
I thought my SS raise would off set the rent, BOY was I wrong.

[billbowden]

"Sang Froid" <co...@blood.ed> wrote in message
news:qen7A.307380$X11....@fx19.am4...

Because the median home price in Orange County CA is $645,000. A friend of
mine bought a house in Tennessee for 50K and paid cash. But that place is
too cold for me.
.

[Dan C]

Perhaps you should get some education and a job, and be able to afford to
buy your own HOUSE. Renting is flushing money down the toilet.




--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as a vole stole his honey
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg

[billbowden]

"Dan C" <youmust...@lan.invalid> wrote in message
news:pan$b8f40$630ab507$8d4475d4$bc42...@moria.lan...

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:51:22 -0800, billbowden wrote:
>
>> Came home today and discovered an envelope taped on my door. It was a
>> rent raise of 9% and we just had a rent raise of 8% last May. So, that
>> amounts to 17% in 8 months or approximately 2% per month. I may have to
>> find another place to live. This place was bought for 3 million in 1986
>> and is probably worth 10 million today. The original owner died in 1997
>> so his widow ownes it now and can't seem to live on $120,000 a month
>> income minus insurance, taxes, salaries, and maintenance costs which
>> might be a third that. So, she only gets $80,000 a month and wants to
>> raise the rent. How greedy can you get? What a bitch, I hope her husband
>> is burning in hell and she will join him.
>> .
>
> Perhaps you should get some education and a job, and be able to afford to
> buy your own HOUSE. Renting is flushing money down the toilet.
>
> --

Perhaps you should try to buy a house around here in Orange County CA where
the median price of a house is $870.000 as of Nov 2016. You need to put lots
of quarters in your piggy bank and get an education..

[me]

No one is forcing you to stay where you are. You have choices. Pay the rent or find a more affordable place elsewhere. So what's your beef?

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 24, 2016 at 9:03:13 PM UTC-7, Werner wrote:
> No one is forcing you to stay where you are. ...

Werner, you knucklehead, there is a reason Orange Co's rent is high.
It is a desirable place to live compared to living in the woods.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I'm sure it's more than a million in San Fran. If I ever get
booted out of my rent-controlled flat, maybe I'll move to
Kentucky and buy a house real cheap. I have a Romantic
feeling about Kentucky, doubtless partly due to William
Gedney's photographs, but if I actually moved there I'd
probably get a rude awakening quickly.

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/57114/album/101843

[El Castor]

On Fri, 23 Dec 2016 18:51:22 -0800, "billbowden"

North of here in Sonoma County -- Petaluma, Cotati, Rohnert Park --
manufactured homes in mobile home parks go for as little as $50K -
$100K, with space rents of around $500. Nice area. Further north in
more rural areas, probably cheaper.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"billbowden" wrote in message
news:585f31c3$0$44361$b1db1813$1459...@news.astraweb.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

A couple of points here. A median price says half the homes go for more and
half go for less. So the first point is whether you would be satisfied with
a home going for less; i.e., below that median price.

Second point is that the ideal situation is to put 20% down to avoid some
less than ideal situations - escrow accounts and MIP being key things to
avoid in my opinion. So if you have 20% and a bit more (to cover various
closing fees) available in liquid assets, then grab a real estate agent and
work some numbers. You need to consider property taxes, mortgage payments,
insurance, utilities, and maintenance reserves on the expense side. Then
figure out how much you can deduct from your state and federal taxes in the
form of property taxes and mortgage interest. That mortgage interest will
be almost equal to your monthly mortgage payment the first several years.
From those deduction amounts, figure how much less taxes - state and federal
you pay. That represents real savings for you. Now compare those expenses
less those tax savings on a monthly basis against your rent. See where
these numbers land you.

[me]

Yes, supply/demand. Everyone wants more for less. Pay more or desire less. Same old trade off. Of course there is always 'rent control' to get more for less. But that means someone else pays to supply your demands. Do you ever wonder why many call that fair?

[islander]

Is that $500 per month? That seems awfully expensive to me for what
amounts to a parking space.

But then it has been a long time since I lived on one of those things.

[GLOBALIST]

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 7:12:33 AM UTC-6, me wrote:
> Yes, supply/demand. Everyone wants more for less. Pay more or desire less. Same old trade off. Of course there is always 'rent control' to get more for less. But that means someone else pays to supply your demands. Do you ever wonder why many call that fair?

Renters vs Owners
There is no correct answer.

I have rented all my adult life and I
am often envied for not having to pay for a new roof,
a new hot water heater, you name it.

I always figure in the convenience of "where" I live, walking
distance from an all night supermarket, an all night Walgreen
and a Super TARGET store (groceries) a block from a public
library, 2 major bus lines that connect to the Metro link train.
I can zip to the Zoo,Art museum and History museum on the same
bus.
If I had to move, I simply tell my landlord "Adios"

I don't pay for water or even hot water, or trash, or have our
lawn mowed. My best compliment from friends who walk in for the
first time...(even a cousin) "How cozy". I pay for renters insurance.
I would not have to do so.
The first thing I hear from home owners is....(as the age) "We
can't afford to live here anymore. Since Madge broke her hip and
I am on oxygen and we can't get to the store...we have to
sell this place and move into a small apartment."

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"billbowden" wrote in message
news:585f31c3$0$44361$b1db1813$1459...@news.astraweb.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

A couple other points:

- If you are a veteran, there of course is the VA mortgage.
http://www.benefits.va.gov/homeloans/purchaseco_eligibility.asp

- if you are a veteran and living in California (as you indeed do), there is
the even more enticing CalVet mortgage. Unlike in the past, where you had
to have entered the service in California, today's criteria is that you just
live in California regardless of where you entered the service.
https://www.calvet.ca.gov/HomeLoans

And here is a discussion of the differences between the two programs.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/difference-between-va-home-loan-calvet-home-loan-100465.html

Certainly the possibility...repeat, possibility...of a no down payment, 100%
financing (within specified limits) loan hitched to group homeowners
insurance is not to be lightly overlooked.

And if you are indeed a veteran, check to see if you are eligible for USAA
membership. I've been with USAA ever since I left the service many moons
ago and have never ever regretted joining it. A good measure of how they
stand within the insurance industry itself is my experience over the years
with phone offers to compare the caller's insurance rates against my current
ones. When I mention that I am a USAA member, the caller either politely
ends the discussion or promising to call back with rates competitive to my
current rates, never does call back.
https://www.usaa.com/inet/pages/pub_eligibility_task_entry

[El Castor]

It's more than a parking space since I assume they supply sewer,
water, parking space, roads, a power hookup, and maybe access to cable
TV or internet. I don't know much about it, but I've seen them for
sale on sites like Realtor.com. Before doing the post I looked up a
couple and the rent was listed. I'd guess you can probably buy a lot
and do it yourself, or go further into the boondocks where it's
cheaper. These manufactured homes look pretty decent, and are not
house trailers, in that I believe they are pre-fab and constructed on
site. No wheels.

[Dan C]

Sounds like it's time to move.

Correction: it was time to move a LONG time ago.

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

"Bother!" said Pooh, as he scrambled his partition table.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

Florida. A lot better deals there.

[El Castor]

On Sun, 25 Dec 2016 05:12:31 -0800 (PST), me <werner...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Yes, supply/demand. Everyone wants more for less. Pay more or desire less. Same old trade off. Of course there is always 'rent control' to get more for less. But that means someone else pays to supply your demands. Do you ever wonder why many call that fair?

I lived in Berkeley when students backed, and passed, a rent control
program, and I've seen it for years in San Francisco.

1. Landlords have little incentive to spend money on their rent
controlled property, so neighborhoods deteriorate.

2. Renters get locked into controlled apartments. A friend of ours is
paying $850 for a one bedroom in San Francisco that would probably
rent for $3,500. She intends to stay until they carry her out feet
first. Tens of thousands of renters in San Francisco are in the same
very comfy boat, but with so little turnover in the rental market,
newcomers find that rents have gone through the roof.

Nothing comes without a price. The law of unintended always seems to
overtake well meaning liberal programs.

[islander]

There are all sorts of manufactured homes, but the ones that you see in
mobile home parks are typically assembled in a factory and hauled to the
site. I own one of these that we lived in while I built our retirement
home. Everything about that thing is cheap. For some reason, mobile
homes are given a raft of exceptions from the building codes. I've
replaced the roof, the electricals and the plumbing over the past 18
years. Now, the deck is rotting away and my project for the spring is
to replace it. I hate the damn thing, but it provides us with some
rental income.

In Florida, we used to call them "hurricane bait" because they were so
easily damaged in a storm.

[islander]

And then there is Prop 13 which has limited property taxes since 1978
for the entire state of CA. It has the same negative effects as rent
control.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Too humid, and way too many cockroaches. On the plus side,
the beaches are gorgeous and the water is warm as a bathtub.
When I was in West Palm Beach for work several times in two
summers around 1975, there was a nude beach near West Palm
Beach called, or nicknamed, "Air Force Beach". That was my
favourite beach ever. Since I moved to San Francisco, I can only
remember lounging around textile beaches twice, both on
vacation in 1972, once on a day trip to Haarlem in Holland, and
once to a beach a train ride north of Copenhagen. There must
have been other times but I've forgotten about them.

I walk a half mile and back along Ocean Beach in shorts, not
a swimsuit, in San Francisco sometimes, with my feet nearly
always in water which is very cold at first, but your feet soon
get numb. The waves sometimes come above my knees. The
ocean in San Francisco is too cold for anyone but a lunatic to
swim in. There are a lot of lunatics, but I'm not one of them,
or at least not one of the more conspicuous ones. My days of
lounging on beaches seem to be over now, largely because
the ocean is far too cold for me in San Francisco. IMV
swimming in the ocean is the only reason for wanting to go
to a beach.

[El Castor]

I see your point, but I can't entirely agree. Prop 13 was largely a
rebellion against out of control state and local spending. Without
Prop 13, property taxes were a bottomless barrel which could be used
to fund virtually any level of spending. Government spending always
rises to exceed the tax revenues available to fund it, so taxes will
be predictably increased to feed the machine. From my perspective,
reining in the political spending machine is an admirable endeavor.

[El Castor]

Here's one in Calistoga (California wine country - no hurricanes) that
sold for $88,000 in November. 2 beds, 2 baths, 1412 sq feet. I
wouldn't live in it -- but as an alternative to paying rent for some
crappy apartment?
https://www.trulia.com/property/3245705559-2412-Foothill-Blvd-178-Calistoga-CA-94515#photo-1

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"El Castor" wrote in message
news:9us26ctrfbakvkj9o...@4ax.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

I'll add my two cents, for whatever they are worth:

- I well remember the days before Prop 13, when many...and I mean
many...retired folks had to sell their homes and leave the area because with
the fixed income that they had, they just could not at all keep up with the
ever increasing property taxes. Even today, I for one could not afford
property taxes in the more than one thousand dollars per *month* level as
would be required if my home were to be valued not according to Prop 13
criteria, but according to market value as was done in those pre-Prop 13
days.

- Over the years, I have observed that new owners complain bitterly and
vociferously against Prop 13. After all, their neighbors with similar homes
just on the very same street with much similar homes pay much less in
property taxes - thanks to Prop 13 - than they do. Let those complainers
stay in those very same homes for 5 or 10 years and you do not hear them at
all complain about Prop 13 at all, if ever.

- The big negative on Prop 13 is the loophole that allows commercial
property not to be revalued to market values if just one of the owners
remains to be however a minority owner when the property is sold. This is
the way that new owners of commercial property avoid having their properties
revalued after making that purchase. Hopefully this loophole will be closed
sooner rather than later.

[islander]

The unintended consequences remain, however.

[islander]

What is the appreciation in value? Consideration of the difference
between this and an actual residence, what is the trade-off? I would
guess not good.

[islander]

We have a better tax program in WA state. Low income seniors have a
graduated advantage in tax depending on actual income. If you are poor,
property tax is reduced.

[Talis Mann]

On 12/26/2016 2:17 PM, islander wrote:

> On 12/26/2016 12:46 PM, El Castor wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Dec 2016 07:59:33 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:
>>

>>> [...]

>>
>> Here's one in Calistoga (California wine country - no hurricanes) that
>> sold for $88,000 in November. 2 beds, 2 baths, 1412 sq feet. I
>> wouldn't live in it -- but as an alternative to paying rent for some
>> crappy apartment?
>> https://www.trulia.com/property/3245705559-2412-Foothill-Blvd-178-Calistoga-CA-94515#photo-1
>>
>>
> What is the appreciation in value? Consideration of the difference
> between this and an actual residence, what is the trade-off? I would
> guess not good.

Does it matter? The original poster was lamenting a raise in rent, and
unaffordability of a conventional house in his neck of the woods. I
doubt that appreciation in value of a simple manufactured home like
this would matter much. It would be a very inexpensive alternative to
climbing rents, and isn't that what this is all about?

[islander]

The conversation had turned to consideration of a mobile home instead of
renting. In that context, a mobile home is not necessarily a good deal
since it does not appreciate in value. Is it better than paying rent?
It depends. It is not a simple consideration.

[Sang Froid]

I suppose. Even owning a home outright doesn't mean you get off paying
something, since there's still taxes and insurance. But a 1400 sq ft
home for a single guy at $88k is a deal, if said single guy is up for
living in Sonoma / Napa country. I can think of far worse.

And if a mobile home doesn't appreciate much, when you rent, you don't
own anything that appreciates at all, and in fact, in can take even more
of your income over time. I would think that's a strong consideration
for a senior on a relatively fixed income.

[islander]

With a mobile home, you still pay insurance and you pay at a higher rate
than for a single family dwelling. If you rent, you only pay insurance
on contents. Repeating, a mobile home does not appreciate in value, it
depreciates just like an automobile. You are not likely to sell a
mobile home for more than you paid for it.

A mobile home gets you in on the cheap, but longer term costs can be
more than renting. Maintenance costs, in particular, are high because
they are built so cheaply.

[billbowden]

"El Castor" <DrE...@justuschickens.com> wrote in message
news:9us26ctrfbakvkj9o...@4ax.com...

It's the huge amount of combined tax per capita that amazes me. California's
budget is about 170 billion for a population of 40 million, or about 4K per
person. The city of Anaheim has a budget of 1.7 billion for a population of
300K, or about 5.6K per person. That brings the total to about 9.6K per
person. Now, if we add the federal budget of 4T / 330M = about 12K, the
total tax revenue is about 22K per person. How much of that do the
politicians, bureaucrats and retirement funds get? I don't think I get 22K
in benefits although I can buy a bus pass for $1.50 and ride the bus all day
long. Such a deal.

[El Castor]

What? Seniors and the poor are taxed? The rich are riding on the backs
of the poor!! Oh what mean greedy people you are! Next you will be
telling me that there is no discount for the descendants of slaves!!!

[El Castor]

Well, excuuuuuse me! This is merely a discussion of inexpensive
retiree housing alternatives. I've never set foot in one, its not for
me, and I am sure there are as many minuses as pluses, but I doubt all
manufactured homes are as crappy as you make them out to be.
Apparently 20 million people live in them. Bill, being a vet, probably
qualifies for a VA loan, and might be able to get into one with little
or nothing down. At some point he might even be eligible for a reverse
mortgage. If the dollars and cents don't work out, so be it, but
otherwise it may be worth considering.

Here are some interesting web sites on the subject.

https://www.pinterest.com/explore/mobile-home-living/
https://www.facebook.com/MobileandManufacturedHomeLiving/
https://www.manufacturedhomelivingnews.com/
http://www.mymobilehomemakeover.com/2012/02/five-memories-of-mobile-home-living/
http://www.today.com/home/after-pics-mobile-home-remodel-take-it-standard-spectacular-t38036
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24135022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWopKeEUIro

[islander]

Sorry, but this is something that I have looked into pretty thoroughly
in the context of my interest in affordable housing here on the island.
There may be some reputable manufacturers around, but competition to
provide the most attractive product at the lowest possible cost pretty
much forces the industry to produce a cheap product. (and by cheap I
mean poor quality)

One of the push-backs that we got from conservatives when I led an
effort to implement a real estate excise tax to support affordable
housing was a project on San Juan Island which was based on your
arguments. It is essentially a trailer park.
http://www.theoaksonsanjuan.com/ If you look at the pictures, it seems
nicely landscaped and the publicity advertises it as an affordable
family-based community. In reality, it is 3 miles out of town with no
public transportation to town and the landscaping is mostly
non-existent. The 78 mobile homes are stacked close to each other with
little effort to provide privacy.

The thing that bothers me most about this kind of manufactured home is
that the materials are not designed to last for much longer than it
takes to sell one of these things. The framing is 2x2 dimensional
lumber and the wall board is plastic laminated 1/4 inch gypsum board.
If you know anything about building codes, this does not provide an
effective fire barrier. The plumbing is plastic. The one that I own
had polybutylene plumbing that tended to start leaking after 20 years
use. There was a lawsuit, but unfortunately I did not hear about it
until too late. When the pipes started leaking, it was too late. I
also replaced the roof, only to find that the trusses and sheathing were
rotted because the insulation and venting was inadequate. The cabinetry
is pressboard that probably looked nice when it was new. but which has
deteriorated over time and will need to be replaced. Lots more problems
that go far beyond what I have experienced in any home that I have owned.

Buy a mobile home? Not a good idea for so many reasons!

There are a number of approaches to manufactured homes that I like, so
please don't think that I am opposed to applying new technology and new
manufacturing techniques to home construction. I'm just opposed to
ripping off gullible customers who are desperate to get in their own home.

Question: As a former banker, would you have given a mortgage to
someone buying a mobile home? I doubt it.

[islander]

The older you get, the less sense you make. I realize that you were
intending to be sarcastic, but all you succeeded in doing was to
illustrate typical conservative attempts at humor. Sad!

[islander]

Yet median household income in California is among the highest in the
country. Perhaps you would prefer to live in Alabama where the state
tax rate is 2%?

[El Castor]

Actually, its liberalism that is sad, very sad. Now, lets get back to
the sad plight of the descendants of slaves who are being taxed into
starvation and low IQs by the evil state of Washington. Have you no
decency!!

[El Castor]

5% on income over $3,000, and one of the highest state and local
combined sales tax rates in the country -- higher than California, and
even slightly higher than Washington.
http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-2015

[El Castor]

Never worked in a branch and never gave a mortgage to anyone.

Don't be so narrow minded. Here's an interesting post from a
manufactured home buyer ...

"Re: The Top 10 Mobile Home/ Manufactured Home Builders

Postby Celtlund » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:19 pm
David, we did many years of research and read both of Grissim's books
twice before we finally bought our home. We were looking in Alabama,
Oklahoma, and finally Louisiana so many of the homes listed in the
books were not available in these markets.
We ended up purchasing a Southern Energy Home (made in Alabama) and
put it on our property in Louisiana. We did get many upgrades such as
2x6 walls with added insulation, dual pane vinal windows, etc. In
doing our research we felt this was one of the better built homes with
quality materials and workmanship. After the purchase we received
excellent support to fix the minor problems we had from both the
dealer, Greg Tilley's in Bossier City, and Southern Energy. We closed
on the home in Nov 08 and moved in after I retired in March of 09. We
love our home and have no regrets on our choice.
https://forum.mobilehome.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83571

And here is the book he mentions ...
"The Grissim Ratings Guide to Manufactured Homes: The Essential
Buyer's Resource, Listing Every Builder in the U.S., Their Histories,
Products, Price ... Need-to-Know Information and Much More"
https://www.amazon.com/Grissim-Ratings-Guide-Manufactured-Homes/dp/0972543619/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482888318&sr=8-1&keywords=Grissoms+rating+guide

[billbowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message
news:o3v0km$m2n$1...@dont-email.me...

In Orange county, we have illegals parked all along the street. There is no
parking for miles since every apartment on every street has 5 tenants.and 5
cars. The hotel tax is 17% and hotel rooms are $180 a night, so the tax
alone is $27 per night per room. But Disneyland pays about hahf the city tax
and controls the city, so if you have a complaint you have to deal with the
Mouse. And Mickey makes the rules. Don't mess with the mouse.

.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I'm listening to PBS radio now. When I first turned it on,
they were talking about 300,000 people homeless in the
Central African Republic since the Muslims took over. Now
they're talking about protests in Brazil for or opposed to
the recent ouster of the former president. Brazil is not
in such bad shape though, so the commentators noted
that everything in Brazil has the high spirits of a festival.
Nevertheless, the commentators noted that there's one
common factor in the recent upheavals, including the
election of Trump in the USA. Maybe the world as we
used to know it is starting to unravel. People IMV are
just sick and tired of everything, everywhere, being only
for the benefit of the already-wealthy. They want
something completely different, and are poking around
trying to find it. I wish them well.

[El Castor]

There is always Oregon. (-8

[islander]

Ah, but Oregon has no sales tax. The ideal place to live, tax-wise, is
in Vancouver Washington which has no income tax. Easy enough to do your
shopping across the Columbia river in Portland.

[islander]

Well, there is plenty of historic precedent of despots exploiting public
unhappiness to gain power. I cannot think a single case where that
ended well. Can you?

[islander]

There is a lot of confusion between manufactured homes and mobile homes.
The letter that you cited (which stressed the option of 2x6 exterior
walls and extra insulation) is probably not a mobile home.

There are a lot of good things about the new technology made possible by
moving part of the construction into a facility designed for that
purpose. The biggest advantage is that it protects the house from the
weather during critical phases of construction, a problem that has long
plagued the construction industry. My house is "stick-built" and I have
horrible memories of sweeping rainwater off the sub floor before I was
able to get a roof on it. Even then, I lived with large tarps to
protect it from the wind and rain until I was able to finally get it
"dried in." Expecting this, I gave it a measure of protection with a
coat of paint that protected the wood temporarily. I discovered in
house that I owned in Maryland that some of the sub flooring was mushy
and neighbors observed that the construction was unprotected for an
unusually long time.

If I had it to do over, I would probably use a modular approach to
manufactured homes. In these, there is a wide variety of options for
wall patterns, even custom patterns that are cut to specifications with
computer controlled precision. Assembly time on-site is done in days
and they tend to be very tight and energy efficient. All this reduces
cost and improves quality. A friend of mine just finished building one
of these houses and is very happy with the results.

What I object to most strenuously are the fly-by-night operators who
build flimsy mobile homes on the cheap and sell them to naive people who
are desperate to get into their own homes. Little do they realize that
what they have bought starts losing value as soon as they make the down
payment. What is more, they pay more for energy, interest and insurance
because they have bought crap.

[El Castor]

Good idea, but I was thinking more in terms of cheap housing. Friends
of ours moved up to the Medford area a few years ago. Practically free
compared to Marin or even Seattle. Although, after a quick perusal it
looks like Vancouver isn't much different than Medford.

[El Castor]

Technology is giving us the 3D printed house. The basic structure goes
up in one day -- or less. (-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SObzNdyRTBs

[islander]

Well yes, perhaps someday. As presented, these are hardly homes, but
the exterior walls and do not include the roof. In addition, there are
too many thermal paths for it to be insulated adequately. There is also
an issue of how to install electrical in the walls. These problems are
not insurmountable, but not obvious in what is presented.

[rumpelstiltskin]

If you mean that there are rich and poor, and the rich get
richer while the poor get poorer, I can't think of a single
case where that ended well, and it looks like it's not going
to end well for the USA too. I don't know about Cuba,
nobody in America knows about Cuba because we've been
prevented from knowing about Cuba. Maybe the distribution
of wealthy isn't as bad there as it is here, after Batista was
kicked out and much of the exploiting class left for Miami.

[billbowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message

news:o41490$d4b$1...@dont-email.me...

I know a guy who moved to the desert and lives in one of those ocean freight
shipping cargo containers. I think it's about 40 feet by 8 feet and high
enough to stand up. He has a 1kW solar power system and batteries for
electricity and well water for washing stuff. He buys gallons of water in
town to drink and cook with. But he doesn't have a problem with leaks since
the house is built of steel. The local city government keeps harassing him
and demanding he move out of town, but he just ignores all the threats and
continues to make improvements to his property. I sold him a few tomato
plants, but he has trouble with rats eating the tomato plants and has to
construct a fence so the rats can't get in.
.

[islander]

Quite a lot is known about Cuba. They got a very good health care
system and an improvement in their public education. Otherwise, the
central planning of their production systems did not succeed, in part
because of the embargo against importing Cuban products in the US,
previously their major trading partner. Sugar, rum, cigars, all known
for their superior quality, but the US market was denied to them. The
Soviet Union propped them up for a time, but that ultimately failed.
Their economy was not sufficient to support the population.

Now, they are tempted by the developers who want to open the tourism
industry. Personally, I think that is just sad. Menial jobs for some,
but not a basis for anything but to enrich the wealthy interests in
vacation resort development.

I visited Cuba in '57 and enjoyed it, but it was definitely oriented
toward the privileged then. Small wonder Castro was successful.

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:00:14 PM UTC-7, billbowden wrote:
> I know a guy who moved to the desert and lives in one of those ocean freight

> shipping cargo containers. ...

Years nago, on a trip to Costa Rica, one fellow of the group had exactly
this idea to solve the housing problem troubling the east coast. These
containers could be outfittted with minimal conveniences and shipped
by boat at very minimal cost. I don't know how long they would last given
the tropical climate but it sounded like a good idea to me.

I bought one-it was a trailer-chopped off the carriage and set it on
blocks for storage in the back yard. Since it was not attached to the
ground, the city could not complain. Sure is ugly and, hot, jeeese
does it get hot in there in the summer!

[islander]

Would you want to live in an ocean freight shipping cargo container?

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:29:40 PM UTC-7, islander wrote:
> Would you want to live in an ocean freight shipping cargo container?

Since you asked, I would not mind given proper implimentation of the
modifications.

1) windows would have to be cut into the walls adding at least insulated
windows. A non-leaky sky lite would be nice.

2) a utilitarian kitchen-microwave, sink, stove, fridge, cabinets.

3) Plumbing for bath, shower, kitchen. !00 gal water tank pipped to the
container provisioned to catch rain water and any purification needs.

4) Independant power source. Solar, generator.

5) the flooring. The one I have, which was a trailer, has a wooden floor.
Not good. On a shipping container, I assume the floor is steel decking
and could be covered with ceramic tile.

6) Good insulation.

A 25 ft container would give about 240 sq. ft of floor space (~8 ft, height) which would compare with the so called 'small houses' that folks are talking about.Take out the door and fit in a nice picture window...yes, for a grumpy
old single guy, it could be a nice easy to keep clean nest.

But you have more experience with this sort of thing, what do you think it
would cost to retrofit a shipping container and what did I leave out?

[El Castor]

You might be right, and then again you may be underestimating the pace
at which technology is evolving. Of course their walls accept conduits
and pipe. A 3D printed house (or multi-story building) might not be
your dream home, nor mine, but in China or Africa it might look pretty
good. Some day it might even look good here.

[El Castor]

"Foreigners who visit Cuba, are fed the official line from Castro’s
propaganda machine: “All Cubans are now able to receive excellent
healthcare, which is also free.” But the truth is very different.
Castro has built excellent health facilities for the use of
foreigners, who pay with hard currency for those services."
<Snip>
"Cubans are not even allowed to visit those facilities. Cubans who
require medical attention must go to other hospitals, that lack the
most minimum requirements needed to take care of their patients.
In addition, most of these facilities are filthy and patients have to
bring their own towels, bed sheets, pillows, or they would have to lay
down on dirty bare mattresses stained with blood and other body
fluids."
http://www.therealcuba.com/?page_id=77

Oh, and please check out the appalling photos.

[islander]

Too many variables to give a good cost estimate.

Comments:

Depending on the climate where one put this thing, heating and/or
cooling would be needed.

Containers are nearly air tight which could produce toxic situations
inside - mold being the worst culprit. Just the moisture that your body
gives off would cause mold. You would need an air exchanger of some sort.

The only place for insulation is inside and in a space this small, it
would further reduce available space. Consider if you had to reduce by
6" all around (possibly 10"-12" overhead).

Water catchment is probably not useful for something this size. The
size of the water tanks and associated equipment would be larger than
the container.

From what I have seen of tiny home designs, they would probably be less
expensive and better optimized for personal interests/needs. More
attractive too. This would be especially true if one can built it oneself.

[islander]

I actually spent most of my life being frustrated at the slow rate of
the evolution of technology, especially in how much time and effort was
involved in public acceptance of new technology. That experience has
made me cautious about projections.

[rumpelstiltskin]

What's wrong with a cargo container as a home?

I just saw a TV spot about James Taylor. He has a regular
house, but outside it, in front, he has a steel cargo container.
He likes to create in there because the tranquility, plus the
resonance from the walls, give him inspiration. The
neighbors don't seem to be complaining that his cargo
container is bringing down the "tone" of the neighborhood,
but that may just be because he's James Taylor.

[rumpelstiltskin]

One of my favourite spots to eat lunch or have a mid-travels
hiatus is on a pier that juts out from behind the Ferry Building.
That pier has a second floor for idlers and wastrels like myself,
with benches, some of which are partially shaded from the
sun. From there I often see cargo ships passing by with cargo
crates on them piled three or four high. There must be about
a hundred of them on each of those ships.

That location is the covered area right alongside where
a ferry, with its propellers still engaged, is loading or
unloading passengers in the picture at the URL below:
http://tinyurl.com/j436jh3

What a beautiful city I live in!

Across the road from the Ferry Building, and in a bit,
is a red-clay-coloured plaza with two parasol-like things
temporarily on it. Behind the parasols, close to the
non-skyscraper behind them, you can vaguely make out
a double-row of tables to which many people, including
myself, often bring their lunches to eat outdoors.
Behind those are three similarly-styled skyscrapers in a
line. My favourite office that I ever had was on the 16th
floor of the third one (blocking the view of the bottom
of the Transamerica pyramid in the photo. My office
was right in the corner facing downtown, with floor-to-
ceiling windows. I immediately plonked my desk right in
the corner, so that I could look out onto downtown from
16 storeys above all day What a great office! I would
almost have worked there for free (not really!).

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 18:24:34 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:

<snip>

>I visited Cuba in '57 and enjoyed it, but it was definitely oriented
>toward the privileged then. Small wonder Castro was successful.
>

That's a lesson perhaps the USA should learn, but there seems
to me not much chance the USA will learn it. It seems to be all too
often the case that the fortunately born, the sneaky, and the
phenomenally skilled keep taking a greater and greater proportion
of the wealth produced mostly by common labour, leaving the rest
of the population more and more destitute until, suddenly, like a
bubbling pan of simmering fat suddenly exploding, the
underprivileged rise up and throw out the bathwater, baby and all.
You can talk about saving the baby, but by then the anger is so
great that the underprivileged don't want any vestige of the
Ancien Régime left standing.

(I don't know if fat actually does that, but something does,
and I liked the analogy too much to discard it.)

[billbowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message

news:o41sbo$plf$3...@dont-email.me...

I've lived in smaller places. I spent a couple years on a 28 foot sail boat.
And I sailed to Hawaii from Los Angeles on a 24 foot trimaran which took us
28 days. But it was good living in the harbor. There was a coffee shop and
they also paged everybody for phone calls, so all I had to do was walk
outside and answer the phone. But the boat was a little cramped with only
two bunks in the bow and a kerosene stove and small table. And when I was in
the Marines, I learned to live with 20 other room mates in the same room.
So, a shipping container looks like an attractive way to live. I'd fix it up
with doors and windows and solar panels and a shed to store all my
electronic parts. I have a couple thousand transistors.

.

[islander]

You absolutely live in a wonderful city, not just beautiful. I envy you
that you have found a way to afford to live there. Seattle is also a
wonderful city and I wonder from time to time if I could live there. I
love where I am right now, away from the maddening crowds and all that
city living entails. Still, there will come a time where the remoteness
of where I live will become a liability. I hope that that day is far in
the future, but we never know. :(

I think that I mentioned that my wife and I went to look at some
Continuing Care Retirement Communities. They are very expensive, but
some of them eliminate the uncertainties about what level of care we
might need. Still, they are occupied by people who can afford them and
I wonder how we might fit in. Just not the kind of activities that I
might enjoy, too many conservatives, etc. I vividly remember Olly who
got stuck in an assisted living facility and who retreated into her
WebTV. God, please don't let that happen to me!

I've had some interesting discussions with a research psychologist here
on the island and have found a strong common interest in brain research.
She loaned me a half dozen books today and I am thrilled to be
challenged by her. I want to continue to be challenged. I do not want
to go gentle into that good night!

For Jeff's benefit, she is brilliant and Jewish.

[islander]

On 12/29/2016 10:52 AM, rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Just toss a little water into a pan of hot fat!

[JackPineSavage]

Why not?

https://www.google.com/search?q=shipping+container+homes&rlz=1C2CHZL_enUS702US702&biw=1229&bih=588&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjejffx5JrRAhUI1CYKHRbkDqQQ_AUICCgB#tbm=isch&q=%22shipping+container+homes%22

[billbowden]

<bfla...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:565b609f-0b25-4aec...@googlegroups.com...

When I was about 11, I built a little house in the back yard. It was just 4
walls, roof and no foundation. When it rained, I went outside into my
little house and felt secure. The roof leaked so I asked my mother to buy me
some tar paper to put on the roof to stop the leaks. It even had a window
with a chain to hold the open window in place. I remember hearing the rain
falling, and I was safe in my little 4 wall house with one window.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

On Sunday, December 25, 2016 at 1:56:49 AM UTC-5, rumpelstiltskin wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2016 16:17:17 -0800, "billbowden"
> <bpe...@bowdenshobbycircuits.info> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Sang Froid" <co...@blood.ed> wrote in message
> >news:qen7A.307380$X11....@fx19.am4...
> >> On 12/23/2016 6:51 PM, billbowden wrote:
> >>
> >>> Came home today and discovered an envelope taped on my door. It was a
> >>> rent
> >>> raise of 9% and we just had a rent raise of 8% last May. So, that amounts
> >>> to
> >>> 17% in 8 months or approximately 2% per month. I may have to find another
> >>> place to live. This place was bought for 3 million in 1986 and is
> >>> probably
> >>> worth 10 million today. The original owner died in 1997 so his widow
> >>> ownes
> >>> it now and can't seem to live on $120,000 a month income minus insurance,
> >>> taxes, salaries, and maintenance costs which might be a third that. So,
> >>> she
> >>> only gets $80,000 a month and wants to raise the rent. How greedy can you
> >>> get? What a bitch, I hope her husband is burning in hell and she will
> >>> join
> >>> him.
> >>
> >> So you're saying capitalism is bad and unfair?
> >>
> >> Why don't you OWN your own residence instead?
> >>
> >
> >Because the median home price in Orange County CA is $645,000. A friend of
> >mine bought a house in Tennessee for 50K and paid cash. But that place is
> >too cold for me.
>
>
> I'm sure it's more than a million in San Fran. If I ever get
> booted out of my rent-controlled flat, maybe I'll move to
> Kentucky and buy a house real cheap. I have a Romantic
> feeling about Kentucky, doubtless partly due to William
> Gedney's photographs, but if I actually moved there I'd
> probably get a rude awakening quickly.
>
> http://www.ipernity.com/doc/57114/album/101843

LOL. Maybe Rock Hudson had the same feeling about Kentucky.
I have spoken with some alternative lifestyle types that
were around when he was meeting Lee Majors in the early 60s

[islander]

Yes, I've also lived on a small boat when I was much younger. Not
something that I could do or would want to do now.

[islander]

Yes, I am very much aware of the architectural creativity that is
possible once you have an inexpensive envelope. Personally, I would
prefer something other than an unfinished tin can.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

> .

Then move to Arizona. Phoenix-Glendale is cheaper than Nashville,
and warmer in the winter.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I don't know much about cookin', but I do at least know
better than to do that!

[rumpelstiltskin]

17:34:01 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:
<snip>

>You absolutely live in a wonderful city, not just beautiful. I envy you
>that you have found a way to afford to live there. Seattle is also a
>wonderful city and I wonder from time to time if I could live there. I
>love where I am right now, away from the maddening crowds and all that
>city living entails. Still, there will come a time where the remoteness
>of where I live will become a liability. I hope that that day is far in
>the future, but we never know. :(
>
>I think that I mentioned that my wife and I went to look at some
>Continuing Care Retirement Communities. They are very expensive, but
>some of them eliminate the uncertainties about what level of care we
>might need. Still, they are occupied by people who can afford them and
>I wonder how we might fit in. Just not the kind of activities that I
>might enjoy, too many conservatives, etc. I vividly remember Olly who
>got stuck in an assisted living facility and who retreated into her
>WebTV. God, please don't let that happen to me!

I think I'd rather be dead than live in a place like that,
especially considering my experience with the "skilled
nursing facility" I was in for a week or two after I had
my knees done. In fact I was fantasizing just before I
got out of bed this morning of being in one of those
facilities but close enough to the ocean beyond the
Golden Gate that I could get to it with my walker. I'd
check the newspapers to see when the tide was going
to be going out, hide in the shrubbery until the gates
were open for the laundry truck to drive in, then
sneak out and head for the beach, throw off my
bathrobe and walk out into the ocean to fulfill my
"final resting place" dream of my body being washed
out to sea to be eaten by sharks and snails, so that
my body would never be found.




Happy the man, whose wish and care
A few paternal acres bound,
Content to breathe his native air,
In his own ground.

Whose herds with milk, whose fields with bread,
Whose flocks supply him with attire,
Whose trees in summer yield him shade,
In winter fire.

Blest, who can unconcernedly find
Hours, days, and years slide soft away,
In health of body, peace of mind,
Quiet by day,

Sound sleep by night; study and ease,
Together mixed; sweet recreation;
And innocence, which most does please,
With meditation.

Thus let me live, unseen, unknown;
Thus unlamented let me die;
Steal from the world, and not a stone
Tell where I lie.

-- Alexander Pope (written at age 12)
who ironically became the most celebrated poet
of the age

[islander]

I know a hospice nurse here on the island who is incredibly good at her
job. If there were a way for an atheist like me to nominate her for
sainthood, I would do it. I have never met a more caring and
compassionate person whose mission in life is to make death as easy as
possible. She will probably not preside over my demise since she just
turned 80 and is mostly retired. I can only hope to find someone like
her when the time comes.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I'm more of a Greta Garbo type: "I vant to be alone."

[islander]

I doubt that anyone is entirely self-sufficient. Your life experience
has probably given you more ability in this than most of us. For me,
the gentle glide into old age is a time to draw friends and relatives to
help you on the journey. I do the same for those who depend upon me and
have related some of my experiences here.

In a parallel thread, I grieved at the loss of Rita. I wish that I
could have been with her at the end. We have been conversing here for a
lot of years and I would feel the same about you. You may work hard at
being an old crank, but there is a lot more to you than that.

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2016 11:54:37 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:
>On 12/30/2016 10:06 AM, rumpelstiltskin wrote:

<snip>

>> I'm more of a Greta Garbo type: "I vant to be alone."
>>
>I doubt that anyone is entirely self-sufficient. Your life experience
>has probably given you more ability in this than most of us. For me,
>the gentle glide into old age is a time to draw friends and relatives to
>help you on the journey. I do the same for those who depend upon me and
>have related some of my experiences here.
>
>In a parallel thread, I grieved at the loss of Rita. I wish that I
>could have been with her at the end. We have been conversing here for a
>lot of years and I would feel the same about you. You may work hard at
>being an old crank, but there is a lot more to you than that.

It's just a pose. I'm really a pussycat. I do really hate
it when I have to be dependent on other people though,
so having to live in a nursing home would be really hard
on me.

[islander]

Pussycat, crank, we all present what we want to the outside world. What
is actually going on inside for us is something else entirely.

[billbowden]

"rumpelstiltskin" <x...@y.com> wrote in message
news:ualc6c5vqaftlo6nk...@4ax.com...

It actually works. I clean my Wok by throwing a little water in and then
scraping the bottom clean and smooth with a spatula. I learned that a long
time ago when I was 18 and a friend showed me how to do it. Works for frying
pans too. You never need any soap. But the surface comes out dry, so you
have to add a little oil so the next thing you fry doesn't stick. Except
bacon of course which makes it's own grease.

[billbowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message

news:o41sbo$plf$3...@dont-email.me...

Actually I would. The problem would be a remote location out of town with
not much security where my nearest neighbor was a mile down the road. I
might need a shotgun to defend the place.

[billbowden]

"islander" <no...@priracy.com> wrote in message

news:o3v0km$m2n$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 12/26/2016 10:12 PM, billbowden wrote:
>> "El Castor" <DrE...@justuschickens.com> wrote in message

>>>
>>> I see your point, but I can't entirely agree. Prop 13 was largely a
>>> rebellion against out of control state and local spending. Without
>>> Prop 13, property taxes were a bottomless barrel which could be used
>>> to fund virtually any level of spending. Government spending always
>>> rises to exceed the tax revenues available to fund it, so taxes will
>>> be predictably increased to feed the machine. From my perspective,
>>> reining in the political spending machine is an admirable endeavor.
>>

>> It's the huge amount of combined tax per capita that amazes me.
>> California's
>> budget is about 170 billion for a population of 40 million, or about 4K
>> per
>> person. The city of Anaheim has a budget of 1.7 billion for a population
>> of
>> 300K, or about 5.6K per person. That brings the total to about 9.6K per
>> person. Now, if we add the federal budget of 4T / 330M = about 12K, the
>> total tax revenue is about 22K per person. How much of that do the
>> politicians, bureaucrats and retirement funds get? I don't think I get
>> 22K
>> in benefits although I can buy a bus pass for $1.50 and ride the bus all
>> day
>> long. Such a deal.
>>
> Yet median household income in California is among the highest in the
> country. Perhaps you would prefer to live in Alabama where the state tax
> rate is 2%?
>

I'd rather live in a fancy shipping container than some place in Alabama. At
least I could drive and shop in Orange County in a couple hours and get home
a couple hours later. It's worth the effort.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I had a wok once, which was left by my roommate Pamela when
she moved to LA. I had become an expert (at least for me) at
making tomato beef chow mein in the wok by then. That was the
summit of my epicureanism though, and it dropped of sharply after
Pam left. On a later visit she said ""I guess I'll take my wok back,
since you don't seem to be using it. It has dead moths in it." Of
course, I had to agree.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I don't think I seem nearly as much of a crank in my
face-to-face interactions with people as I seem in this
newsgroup. I think I'm a "nice guy" although I must
admit I've met guys I thought were pretty awful who
felt they were "nice guys".

[islander]

It is harder to be a crank when face-to-face with someone, I think.
There are exceptions, of course!

[islander]

On 12/30/2016 11:59 PM, rumpelstiltskin wrote:

A wok takes some special care if I remember carefully. My wife and I
surrendered to the modern technology of slippery coatings a long time ago.

[bfla...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 30, 2016 at 4:35:57 PM UTC-7, rumpelstiltskin wrote:
>... I do really hate it when I have to be dependent on other
>people though,...

That is a man thing. Just about everyone i know of our age hates
to be dependent on others. Get over it-there will be that time.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I recently bought a newfangled non-stick pan, and I love it.
I've been seeing commercials for square pans too. That
seems like a good idea except for the fact that the burners
are still round.

[islander]

I doubt that it makes a difference since most fry pans these days are
aluminum which has a lot better heat conductivity than steel. If I
could find copper fry pans with a non-stick coating, that would be even
better. Otherwise, I don't see a lot of advantage to square pans.

[rumpelstiltskin]

The advantage they push, and I agree with it, is that a lot of
things come in squares, and if they're the right size squares,
you can fit four of them into it easily. I guess the main appeal
for me though is that I find the square pan "aesthetically" more
pleasing because it minimizes storage space, though even that
advantage is crippled by the fact that the pan does, of course
have to have a protruding handle. I'm not planning on buying
one though. My circular non-stick pan suits me just fine. I
have too much "stuff" already.

[rumpelstiltskin]

I rather like Edna's attitude toward the inevitability of death:


...
Withstanding Death
Till Life be gone,
I shall treasure my breath,
I shall linger on.

I shall bolt my door
With a bolt and a cable;
I shall block my door
With a bureau and table;

With all my might
My door shall be barred.
I shall put up a fight,
I shall take it hard.

With his hand on my mouth
He shall drag me forth,
Shrieking to the south
And clutching at the north.


-- from
http://genius.com/Edna-st-vincent-millay-moriturus-annotated


That's the same entwinement, though in a
much more defiant and less resigned way,
is expressed in Dylan Thomas' "Do not go
gentle into that good night."


...
And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

http://genius.com/Dylan-thomas-do-not-go-gentle-into-that-good-night-annotated

[islander]

My wife has informed me lately that the coating on most non-stick pans
is not suitable for "searing." That requires a special pan that is
dedicated to that purpose. So we have one. We also have one pan that
we use for broiling whole chickens. It works really nicely, but is
pretty messy so it is used only for that purpose. We also have a
selection of small, medium, and large pans, deep pans, griddles, and
even one shaped like a wok. My wife does a lot of on-line shopping! <sigh>

[rumpelstiltskin]

That's no danger for me, "Searing" is far beyond my
culinary capabilities. I had orange chicken and rice and
spinach for breakfast this morning. I prepared the rice
per specifications, using a timer to make sure it simmers
covered for 15 minutes after first bringing the water
and rice uncovered to a boil. I put the orange chicken
in the microwave, moving the small bits to the right side
because the microwave heater doesn't get as hot on
that side, The I nuked it for 15 minutes, took out
the tray and removed the small pieces into a bowl,
then flipped the big pieces over and nuked them
another 15 minutes. While waiting for that, I ate the
small pieces. 15 minutes is enough nuking for those,
and if I leave them in longer I'll end up with pieces
with a very hard coating. Little by little I get better
at cooking, but I'll never be "fancy" at it.

I did a few weeks ago use two parts of rice to
one part of water, instead of the other way around.
I hope the result of that will keep me from making
the same mistake again.

I do a lot of on-line shopping too. Does anybody
need a "one size fits all" bathrobe? I bought it
online, and I should have returned it, because it
really was "one size fits all 11-year-old girls" and
not including 11-year-old girls who are going to
be basketball players. The material was very
nice, but after the first week I put it aside
because it's just far too small. The experience
will maybe be a lesson to me to be more careful
buying clothes online.

"One size fits all" never does, especially not
if you're a six-foot guy who wears size 13
sneakers. I'm actually down to 5'11 now,
partly due to my fake knees and partly due to
normal geriatric shrinkage, I guess.

[islander]

I love Orange Chicken! Actually, I use the searing pan over a very high
heat so that the chicken stays moist. I make the rice separately in an
electric steamer that turns out perfect rice every time. After the
chicken is cooked, I set it aside to add later. I reduce the heat and
and simmer onions and a veggie (usually boc choy) with the lid on the
pan. I then return the chicken to the pan and add Tsang Orange Sauce
and a couple of Mandarin oranges. Serve it over the rice. Yum!

Altogether, it takes very little time on the stove, but I have to
remember to start the rice early. The rice cooker takes an hour. I
think that I'll make it this evening.

As to buying on-line, my wife is skilled in returning things that she
doesn't like. Some of the companies even provide return labels.

[rumpelstiltskin]

On Sun, 1 Jan 2017 17:35:22 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:
>On 1/1/2017 10:47 AM, rumpelstiltskin wrote:

<snip>

>I love Orange Chicken! Actually, I use the searing pan over a very high
>heat so that the chicken stays moist. I make the rice separately in an
>electric steamer that turns out perfect rice every time. After the
>chicken is cooked, I set it aside to add later. I reduce the heat and
>and simmer onions and a veggie (usually boc choy) with the lid on the
>pan. I then return the chicken to the pan and add Tsang Orange Sauce
>and a couple of Mandarin oranges. Serve it over the rice. Yum!
>
>Altogether, it takes very little time on the stove, but I have to
>remember to start the rice early. The rice cooker takes an hour. I
>think that I'll make it this evening.
>
>As to buying on-line, my wife is skilled in returning things that she
>doesn't like. Some of the companies even provide return labels.
>
>

When I get orange (or lemon or General Tso's) chicken outside
(as I did yesterday) the coating is less crisp than when I nuke it
myself, but is still a little crisp. The orange chicken (from Costco)
that I get for nuking at home has some pieces much smaller
than what I get outside, which is why I nuke those for a shorter
time. The small pieces come out very crisp all through, but I
like that.

I just cook rice in a covered pan. That only takes 15 minutes.

[billbowden]

"rumpelstiltskin" <x...@y.com> wrote in message

news:phek6ctctev6sq4bf...@4ax.com...

Tonight, I wanted some steamed rice. I have a large jar that I keep rice in
but it gets infected with little bugs. So, I spread out some rice on a piece
of paper and then moved the clean rice (without bugs) onto the other side of
the paper. It probably took me 15 minutes to separate the clean rice from
the bugs and I only got a half cup of clean rice. It was good for one
serving and a little left over for beakfast. Then I tried a new idea of
putting a little oil in the pan to stop the rice from sticking to the pan.
Worked fairly well. When I heard a sizzling sound I figured the rice was
done and it was done with very little stuck to the pan. I ate about half and
will have the other half tomorrow morning.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"billbowden" wrote in message
news:586b38a7$0$44640$c3e8da3$76a7...@news.astraweb.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

Here's a tip - keep that jar of rice in your freezer.

[rumpelstiltskin]

Wow - little bugs! I haven't had that problem. Maybe
your jar is not airtight?

I may have that problem soon, since I've been eating so
much rice lately that I bought a humongous bag of rice from
Costco, instead of the sanitized and (perhaps) irradiated
smaller plastic bags I've usually been buying. This new bag
is Indian rice though, far too much to distribute among my
air-tight containers (which are containers that used to hold
chocolate-covered raisins and such from Costco). So most
of the rice is still sitting in a now-open plastic bag inside the
zippered big bag. I probably won't buy that rice again,
because I read that natural Himalayan rice from India,
unlike nice clean military-industrial-complex rice from the
USA, has to be pre-washed. I have been sieving it under
running water because I read that it might clump if I don't
do that. It's an extra step that I'm not fond of, though.

[Jessye]

.
... and I thought just the arsenic was bad.