Oops!

[islander]

DJIA down 666 points!

The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.

At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"islander" wrote in message news:p52ra8$air$1...@dont-email.me...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

Credit The Whining Donald, who likes so much to take credit for the doings
of the market!
http://www.businessinsider.com/dow-jones-sp-500-stock-market-drop-why-trump-should-stay-away-2018-2

[Josh Rosenbluth]

We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"Josh Rosenbluth" wrote in message news:p537uc$eum$4...@josh.motzarella.org...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

Well, I hear tell that the market got a whiff of possible interest rate
hikes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2018/02/02/dow-suffers-brief-300-point-drop-amid-rate-hike-fears-after-strong-jobs-report/300350002/

Ironically, this drop occurs on Yellen's very last day at the Federal
Reserve. Her Whining Donald chosen successor Jerome H. Powell will clearly
have his work cut out for him the next few weeks/months!
https://www.wsj.com/articles/janet-yellen-leaves-the-fedand-a-glass-ceiling-shattered-1517600414

But then perhaps...just perhaps...The Whining Donald can issue yet another
of his Whining Donald executive orders, this one forbidding the Fed to raise
interest rates for the duration of his Whining Donald presidency.

Failing that approach, The Whining Donald can always fall back on that in
which he The Whining Donald is certainly most skilled and definitely and
absolutely well experienced - to incessantly whine and whine and
whine...this time on rising interest rates!

[El Castor]

On the plus side, it looks like the Trump economy continues to pick up
speed with a full head of steam ...
"Ironically, Friday's selloff was sparked by continued good news in
the job market, with the government reporting that the economy created
200,000 jobs in January, and data showing wages for U.S. workers rose
at their fastest pace since 2009 -- a pick-up in pay that spurred
fears of a spike in inflation."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2018/02/02/dow-suffers-brief-300-point-drop-amid-rate-hike-fears-after-strong-jobs-report/300350002/

Also on the plus side, not to be greedy we took our 2018 RMDs last
week. (-8

[Gary]

On Fri, 2 Feb 2018 15:13:10 -0800, islander <no...@priracy.com> wrote:

>DJIA down 666 points!
>
>The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
>in the Bible.

The Beast -- who will finish destroying man, is mentioned in the Book
of Revelation. His number shall be 666.

>Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
>Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
>in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
>
>At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...

As far as the stock market is concerned -- the Dow Jones was about
20,000 when Trump took office. It rose to about 26,000 in his first
year.

[Jack Fate]

Thanks to Obama, stupid. Now it's tanking, thanks to Trump, stupid.

[Tzatz Ziki]

On 2/3/2018 4:45 AM, Jack Shit wrote:

> Tha

"...but I will no longer be posting here. No one here is going to change
so, basically, I'm wasting the little time I have left by posting to
this obscure little group full of stupid bigoted and racist Trump
lovers."

[islander]

I assume that you mean your retirement minimum distribution. Probably a
good time to do that.

Otherwise,
I don't see that there is anything to crow about in the Trump economy.
GDP growth for 2017 was 2.3% compared to 2.2% for Obama's second term
average. Personal consumption expenses are up about 3% overall for 2017
compared to about 4% for 2016 which indicates a continued gradual
improvement in consumer confidence, but a small decline for Trump's
first year in office. Pretty much on track for continued recovery after
the Great Recession. Likewise, the unemployment rate reached 4.1%,
continuing a pretty uniform decline throughout the Obama years. That is
probably about as low as it is going to go. Labor participation rate
has been stuck at 62.7% for the last four months, marginally worse than
when Trump took office. Where are the promised jobs? Wages are up
2.6%, equivalent to the annual increase in 2015 and slightly more than
2016. Generally still pretty much stagnated.

So, other than the stock market, the most that can be said for the Trump
administration is that he hasn't screwed up too badly -- yet.

[islander]

The market has been nervous and Janet Yellen's exit may have tripped
something. The market likes stability in the FED and Yellen has been
very cautious about increasing interest rates. It had to be done to
provide some margin to correct in the event of future recessions, but it
had to be done carefully.

Jerome Powell, Yellen's replacement, is an unknown to most people and it
is believed that he will face recovery from a recession during his term.
How will he react? What challenges does he face due to the Trump tax
cuts? A lot of Nervous Nellies out there!

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 2/3/2018 1:00 AM, El Castor wrote:

Inflation! That is one the reasons why the tax cut will likely greatly
increase the debt. The stimulative benefits are stunted by interest
rate hikes in response to increasing inflation.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Staying on a good path is something the electorate usually credits the
sitting President with.

[islander]

That sounds like low expectations to me, especially in the context of
what Trump pontificated about in the State of the Union just last week.

[El Castor]

On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 08:14:36 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>
wrote:

Inflationary pressures always accompany a strong economy -- regardless
of who is president.

[El Castor]

Wrong. You should be ashamed of yourself. BTW -- I have been
complaining about the US corporate tax rate for years, and would be
just as pleased if a Democrat had achieved the same results.

CNN (Not exactly a Trump cheerleader) ...
"America gets a raise: Wage growth fastest since 2009
by Patrick Gillespie @CNNMoney February 2, 2018: 10:35 AM ET
U.S. economy added 200,000 jobs in January
America finally got a raise.
The U.S. economy added 200,000 jobs in January, and wages grew at the
fastest pace in eight years. The unemployment rate stayed at 4.1%, the
lowest since 2000, the Labor Department said Friday. Wages were up
2.9% compared with a year earlier, the best pace since June 2009. Wage
growth has been the last major measure to make meaningful progress
since the end of the Great Recession. The Federal Reserve would like
wages to grow even faster -- 3% or more -- but Friday's report was a
welcome sign for workers after years of stagnant pay. Economists say
it's time to take note of how strong, or "tight," the U.S. job market
is. Friday's numbers show 2018 "will be a year of rising wages and the
tightest labor market in over a generation," said Joseph Brusuelas,
chief U.S. economist at RSM, an accounting and consulting firm."
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/02/news/economy/january-jobs-report-2018/index.html

The Trump economy also owes a debt to regulation cuts, as well as the
anticipation of tax and regulation cuts.

Another CNN story...
"Trump literally cuts the red tape on regulations"
https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/politics/trump-deregulation-in-gifs/index.html

[islander]

That seems to be one of those rules of thumb that ought to be
challenged. We have been seeing a downward trend in inflation
since '81 with some obvious minor increases in the Reagan years and the
GW Bush years. If you do a linear regression analysis, this amounts to
approximately 0.9% reduction in inflation per decade. If you go back
only slightly further, the striking exception to your rule is during the
Carter years when inflation spiked to over 13%. Are you really claiming
that there was a strong economy in '79? How about the 12.3% in '74?
http://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/united-states/historic-inflation/cpi-inflation-united-states.aspx

[islander]

With the unemployment rate at 4.1%, some say that is full employment,
one can expect a labor shortage as baby boomers continue to retire.
Normally, a labor shortage results in increased wages. That might
happen, but a lot depends upon the sluggish performance of productivity.
Corporations are likely to be looking at alternatives. You have been
warning about automation for some time now. There are not many
professions that are immune to automation.

As to the reduction of regulations. Here are a few specifics of which
Obama executive orders that Trump is eliminating:
DACA
Paris Climate Agreement
Offshore + Arctic Oil Drilling
Net Neutrality
Clean Water Rule
Clean Power Plan
National Monument Protection
Transgender Bathroom Protection
Anti-Dumping Rule
Oil Rig Safety Regulations

Are you really sure that you want to eliminate these?

[bill bowden]

Yes, and AMZN went up 2.87% the same day or $40 a share. I love my little share of AMZN.

[Gary]

Damn ! $1,429.95 a share for Amazon. I didn't realize it was so
high. I use to be active in stocks but I've never owned any valued
anywhere near that high. About $100 a share was all my nerves could
handle :-)

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Trump is a special case given his personality. We will have to wait and
see how much of that, which includes his boasting, will drag down
Republican fortunes in November.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 2/3/2018 1:03 PM, El Castor wrote:

I agree. But - regardless of who is the president - those pressures
likely stunt the stimulative impact of tax cuts which would leave us
holding the debt bag.

[islander]

I'm currently reading *Fantasy Land" by Kurt Andersen who describes the
history of American gullibility and susceptibility to "alternative
facts." I was unaware of some of the history, much of which goes back
to religious beliefs including the unique kinds of Protestant beliefs
that thrived in the US.

Clearly Trump believes that if he repeats something often enough that
people want to believe is true that it doesn't matter if it is true or
not. Confirmation bias at work!

[bill bowden]

Berkshire Hathaway Inc. Class A is going for $314,339 a share and lost $11,560 on Friday. The symbol is berk.a. It's more than doubled in 5 years. Buffett has said that passing on Amazon was one of his bigger investing regrets.

[El Castor]

I have not been warning, I have been commenting on the inevitable
future. Would president Hillary have issued an executive order
prohibiting automation? In 1800 90% of American jobs were on farms.
Now it's more like 2%, and yet we have survived. We will just have to
figure it out as we go.

>As to the reduction of regulations. Here are a few specifics of which
>Obama executive orders that Trump is eliminating:
>DACA
>Paris Climate Agreement
>Offshore + Arctic Oil Drilling
>Net Neutrality
>Clean Water Rule
>Clean Power Plan
>National Monument Protection
>Transgender Bathroom Protection
>Anti-Dumping Rule
>Oil Rig Safety Regulations
>
>Are you really sure that you want to eliminate these?

Those executive orders are the rightful realm of congress, the
legislative branch of government. I hope they do their job. We did not
elect a king.

[El Castor]

I just finished reading Andrew Jackson And The Miracle of New Orleans
-- the story of a great American patriot, and populist. You probably
find patriotism repulsive, but Jackson was a great man, and his story
very interesting.

[El Castor]

On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 16:43:25 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>

Josh, I always respect your opinion, but forgive me if I question the
intellectual honesty of those who question a Trump deficit that has
yet to materialize, but failed to question Obama's $19 trillion
deficit. Personally I find the prospect of a Trump deficit worrisome,
but it is what it is, and I am delighted with the corporate tax cut.
If Trump gives us a multi trillion deficit, I promise to demand higher
taxes on the 1%. As it is, eliminating state tax deductions seems like
an excellent idea, and I live in a high tax state.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

We've been over this many times before. The Obama debt record is
actually the Great Recession debt record, and is shared by Bush43 and
Obama. Both Presidents intentionally increased the debt to avoid a
further downturn in the economy. After the Great Recession ended, the
deficits came back down. But now, they are likely to head back up
during good times.

[islander]

I am an advocate of technology. New technology, including automation,
should be making life better for all of us. Unfortunately, the benefits
of technology are not being shared by everyone and especially not by
those who are being made obsolete by technology. I advocate a stronger
sharing of the benefits and IIRC Hillary proposed programs to address
exactly that.

>
>> As to the reduction of regulations. Here are a few specifics of which
>> Obama executive orders that Trump is eliminating:
>> DACA
>> Paris Climate Agreement
>> Offshore + Arctic Oil Drilling
>> Net Neutrality
>> Clean Water Rule
>> Clean Power Plan
>> National Monument Protection
>> Transgender Bathroom Protection
>> Anti-Dumping Rule
>> Oil Rig Safety Regulations
>>
>> Are you really sure that you want to eliminate these?
>
> Those executive orders are the rightful realm of congress, the
> legislative branch of government. I hope they do their job. We did not
> elect a king.
>

You should tell that to Trump.

[islander]

You and I have entirely different definitions of patriotism. Ask the
American Indians what they think of Jackson. IIRC, he was also an
advocate of slavery.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"Josh Rosenbluth" wrote in message news:p57c33$lvs$1...@josh.motzarella.org...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

Well said, Josh...very well said.
There is nothing like over stimulating an already robust economy by
pandering to the rich, the wealthy, and the well propertied through
deficits!

By the way...I assume - not having heard otherwise - that you and yours went
through the recemt southern California fires OK.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 2/4/2018 10:36 AM, Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:
>
> By the way...I assume - not having heard otherwise - that you and yours
> went through the recemt southern California fires OK.

Yes, thanks for the thoughts. I live 10 miles from the fire zone and 30
from the mudslides. The house I lived in when I was in middle school
was destroyed in the fire.

[El Castor]

On Sun, 4 Feb 2018 08:24:01 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>

You can blame a good chunk of the 2009 deficit on Bush, but the rest
is on Obama -- a deficit that continued year after year, trillion
after trillion. And no, the Keynes bullshit is no excuse. The
Keynesian recession remedy has been discredited for fifty years, but
to this day is eagerly employed by liberals as an excuse for deficit
spending, although liberals are conveniently stricken with amnesia
should anyone remind them that Keynes recommended surpluses during
upswings of the business cycle.

"Obamanomics: The Final Nail In the Discredited Keynesian Coffin"
"Keynesian economics is the false vision of human action which says
the way to promote economic recovery and renewed growth is through
increased government spending, deficits and debt. If that sounds
nuts, that’s because it is."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/07/12/obamanomics-the-final-nail-in-the-discredited-keynesian-coffin/#19cf0332ba7d

"Friedman Debunked the Gospel of Keynes"
"In the 1950s, as socialism was gaining credence around the world and
Keynesian thinking dominated economics textbooks, Friedman's
skepticism about government management of the economy was viewed as
nothing short of heresy. But by the mid-1970s, as the country was
beset by stagnant growth and high inflation, it became clear the
Keynesian model had played itself out. Suddenly, Friedman's ideas
didn't look so kooky."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/16/AR2006111601779.html

[El Castor]

No need, he is well aware --- and so is Obama.

“President Obama’s Evolution on Executive Power
As a candidate, President Obama expressed misgivings about executive
power. After the 2010 mid-term elections, however, it became clear
that Congress would not go along with the president’s sweeping
regulatory agenda. So he pledged: “Where they won’t act, I will.”
He vowed to pursue “audacious” executive action in his final term. And
in his January 2014 State of the Union Address, President Obama
promised to “wherever and whenever” possible “take steps without
legislation.”
President Obama made good on these promises; his use of Executive
Orders, Executive Agreements, Agency Guidance, and Agency Rulemaking
unilaterally to change domestic policy is unparalleled in modern
times. Indeed, according to “The New York Times,” President Obama’s
two terms have been characterized by “bureaucratic bulldozing, rather
than legislative transparency.”
All of this is quite remarkable given that the Constitution vests the
power to make law with Congress, not the president, as President
Obama, once a lecturer in constitutional law, well knows."
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/311608-obamas-curtain-call-a-look-back-on-a-legacy-of

[El Castor]

Oh my, and who were the original owners of Orcas Island? There you
sit, squatting on stolen land! Being 1/64th native American, I demand
you return what is rightfully mine! BTW -- the other 63/64ths of me
believes Andrew Jackson was a great American -- one who should not be
judged in the light of 21st century left wing morality. Do you also
support destruction of statues honoring George Washington and Thomas
Jefferson?

[islander]

History judges Andrew Jackson harshly, not because of 21st century left
wing liberal morality, but because he was an autocratic leader who made
some very bad decisions. Ask the Cherokees about the Indian Removal Act
of 1830 and the subsequent Trail of Tears. How do you justify those
acts, even in the context of 19th century America?

Then too, Jackson's path from poverty to wealth was made possible by his
increased use of slaves to operate the Hermitage. He was an advocate of
white supremacy, actively opposing abolitionists at a time when that
movement was increasing in popularity, even in the upper south in the
early part of the 19th century. So, contrary to your assertion about
being judged by 21st century morality, he was already judged as immoral
while he was still alive.

Jackson was a populist who used his victory at New Orleans (actually
after the War of 1812 had ended) to propel his political career,
ultimately winning the Presidency. He may have been a founder of the
Democratic Party, but his accomplishments for "the common man" were
mostly rhetoric with little actually accomplished except for white male
suffrage.

[islander]

There is one major difference. Obama did not have the support of
Congress. Trump enjoys a majority in both houses, but still feels it
necessary to rule by executive order.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

Neither Forbes nor Friedman has convinced most economists, including the
ones Bush and Obama listened to, that deficit spending is not called for
during a recession. Obama continued the large deficit spending until
2013 when he was convinced the economy had sufficiently recovered for
good. It is the Republicans who are insisting on more deficits during
the good times with this tax cut.

[El Castor]

The War of 1812 was about more than impressment of seamen. The British
viewed it as revenge for the revolutionary war and took great delight
in burning Washington. Jackson understood that the East Coast was too
populated for the British to occupy, but that by taking New Orleans,
the British would control the Mississippi and together with their
Indian allies be in a position to halt westward migration from the
colonies. Various forms of the Treaty of Ghent stated that territory
occupied at the end of the cessation of hostilities would remain under
the control of the occupiers. That clause, introduced before the
Battle of New Orleans, was all about New Orleans and the Mississippi
river. The British fleet that attacked New Orleans was the largest
ever seen in the new world, and Jackson's defeat of the finest that
Britain had to offer was brilliant. He was loved by his men, and the
people of New Orleans. He also had many indian allies, as well as
indian enemies -- enemies who killed settlers as they made their way
west. And, by the way, the War of 1812 was not over until the Treaty
of Ghent was ratified by the Senate, a month after the Battle of New
Orleans.

So, do you support tearing down statues of Washington and Jefferson,
both slave owners, who by definition supported slavery?????

And, do you support the return of the San Juan Islands to the Native
Americans from whom they were taken?????

[El Castor]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 08:32:00 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>

Time will tell. There is a reason why the rest of the developed world
has long since cut their corporate tax rates. By the way, in the early
60's, I never encountered a single UC Berkeley econ professor who did
not believe Keynes was an outmoded joke. Please don't expect me to
believe that we needed to borrow $19 trillion to stimulate the
economy. As I said, Keynesian economics is just a left wing excuse to
spend.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

... and eliminating loopholes (such as carried interest). Markets
perform more rationally without these loopholes and you can be revenue
neutral with lower rates. Our corporate tax cut kept the largest
loopholes. Not a good thing.

> By the way, in the early
> 60's, I never encountered a single UC Berkeley econ professor who did
> not believe Keynes was an outmoded joke. Please don't expect me to
> believe that we needed to borrow $19 trillion to stimulate the
> economy. As I said, Keynesian economics is just a left wing excuse to
> spend.

Even Hank Paulson had to give in on this one.

[islander]

On 2/5/2018 12:56 PM, El Castor wrote:

> Time will tell. There is a reason why the rest of the developed world
> has long since cut their corporate tax rates. By the way, in the early
> 60's, I never encountered a single UC Berkeley econ professor who did
> not believe Keynes was an outmoded joke. Please don't expect me to
> believe that we needed to borrow $19 trillion to stimulate the
> economy. As I said, Keynesian economics is just a left wing excuse to
> spend.

If you are saying that we needed to borrow $19 trillion to stimulate the
economy, you are exaggerating big time! Obama added $7.9T, a 68%
increase over GW Bush to the debt. The rest of it is due to prior
administrations. You claim to be in favor of tax cuts and $858 of the
debt accumulate in just two years is due to tax cuts during the Obama
administration. Another $800B is due to increases in Defense spending
that I assume you supported.

Meanwhile, GW Bush increased the debt by $5.8T, a 101% increase over
Clinton and left us with the Great Recession.

Bill Clinton increased the debt by only $1.4T, a 32% increase over GHW
Bush.

GHW Bush added $1.6T, or a 54% increase over Reagan

Ronald Reagan added $1.9T, or a 186% increase over Carter

Of course, the Great Recession cost the American public an estimated
$16T, so perhaps it was a good thing that Obama came along!

Oh, and please explain to me how Friedman economics worked for Reagan,
GHW Bush and GW Bush. Never mind, it didn't.

[El Castor]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 14:24:44 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>

Would nothing have been preferable?

[bill bowden]

Bill Clinton inherited a Goldilocks economy where the market went up 25% a year. Reagan defeated the soviet union and created the peace dividend that produced Clinton's balanced budget.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/analysis/53040.stm

[Josh Rosenbluth]

In regards only to the corporate part of the tax cuts, that's a tough call.

[El Castor]

And how is Keynes' admonition to run surpluses in years of growth
working out for you?


BTW -- The $19 trillion was poorly phrased -- sorry about that. Total
debt when he left office. I'll settle for your number -- which comes
down to a hair under a trillion a year for each of his eight years --
an unprecedented sum, but par for the course for a tax and spend
liberal.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:

> On 2/2/2018 3:13 PM, islander wrote:
> > DJIA down 666 points!
> >
> > The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
> > in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
> > Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
> > in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
> >
> > At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...
>

> We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
> Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?

I am sure by now you have heard about the excuse being speculation on
higher interest rates. Good economy, low inflation, is now considered
bad news for stocks.
Take a look at natural gas market. A colder than expected winter.
The speculation of a warmer winter sent nat gas down in the fall.
But even with the largest stockpile draw down of gas in US history,
even with demand outstripping supply, even with the stockpile of nat gas
being well under the 5 year moving avg, the price of nat gas is at
historical lows. Less than where it was last year when gas stockpiles
were above average. Something very odd is happening.

The way the markets behave these days (or the last 2 decades) seem
to be mostly detached from market fundamentals.
In other words markets appear to driven by speculating on
what might happen instead of what is really happening.

Why today? Excellent question.

[islander]

They were working pretty well in the Clinton years, but that all ended
when GW Bush decided that the American people deserved a tax break.

>
> BTW -- The $19 trillion was poorly phrased -- sorry about that. Total
> debt when he left office. I'll settle for your number -- which comes
> down to a hair under a trillion a year for each of his eight years --
> an unprecedented sum, but par for the course for a tax and spend
> liberal.
>

You know very well that averages can be misleading. Most of the
deficits incurred by Obama occurred during his first term and were
needed to pull the country out of the Great Recession.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 2/6/2018 3:59 AM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
>> On 2/2/2018 3:13 PM, islander wrote:
>>> DJIA down 666 points!
>>>
>>> The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
>>> in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
>>> Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
>>> in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
>>>
>>> At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...
>>
>> We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
>> Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?
>
> I am sure by now you have heard about the excuse being speculation on
> higher interest rates. Good economy, low inflation, is now considered
> bad news for stocks.

From what I have heard, it's a good economy that causes high inflation
that is bad news.

[El Castor]

Enormous deficits were not needed, just as flashy sub-prime loans with
next to nothing down, were never needed. An intelligently run Fed,
guided by the principles of Milton Friedman was all that was required.
But to quote one of the magnificent luminaries of your Party, Rahm
Emanuel, “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste. And what I
mean by that is an opportunity to do things that you think you could
not do before.”

[El Castor]

On Mon, 5 Feb 2018 20:04:49 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth <no...@nowhere.com>

We will have to let the economy decide that issue.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> On 2/6/2018 3:59 AM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> >> On 2/2/2018 3:13 PM, islander wrote:
> >>> DJIA down 666 points!
> >>>
> >>> The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
> >>> in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
> >>> Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
> >>> in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
> >>>
> >>> At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...
> >>
> >> We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
> >> Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?
> >
> > I am sure by now you have heard about the excuse being speculation on
> > higher interest rates. Good economy, low inflation, is now considered
> > bad news for stocks.
>
> From what I have heard, it's a good economy that causes high inflation
> that is bad news.

Ok. But PPI and CPI have mostly been in line with expectations.
This reminds me a lot of year 2000. There was low inflation
but Greenspan took his eye off of that and raised interest rates
anyway. That goes against Fed policy. This is worrisome because
the focus seems to be more on jobs.
Market prices do not seem to be based on fundamentals.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

On 2/6/2018 4:20 PM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
>> On 2/6/2018 3:59 AM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
>>>> On 2/2/2018 3:13 PM, islander wrote:
>>>>> DJIA down 666 points!
>>>>>
>>>>> The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
>>>>> in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
>>>>> Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
>>>>> in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...
>>>>
>>>> We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
>>>> Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?
>>>
>>> I am sure by now you have heard about the excuse being speculation on
>>> higher interest rates. Good economy, low inflation, is now considered
>>> bad news for stocks.
>>
>> From what I have heard, it's a good economy that causes high inflation
>> that is bad news.
>
> Ok. But PPI and CPI have mostly been in line with expectations.

It appears Wall Street is nervous about that changing as the economy
gathers steam.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

maxw...@my-deja.com wrote in message
news:5678a5a2-5735-4987...@googlegroups.com...

***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******

Well, one of the old market adages is that the market does not perform
according to current economic conditions, but on anticipated economic
conditions 6 - 9 months down the road. That timing should coincide when the
Trump tax act consequences should really take hold as the Treasury seeks
more debt to pay for the Whining Donald gifts to all those rich, wealthy,
propertied, and the corporations.
from
https://books.google.com/books?id=5Ppd6lLGl24C&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=stock+market+anticipates+adage&source=bl&ots=xcKUNh4-r3&sig=m8wdUNJWZ60y5IQmaJhQuIC9JEs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW5fTX45LZAhUK8IMKHekXCUEQ6AEIQjAE#v=onepage&q=stock%20market%20anticipates%20adage&f=false
"...the stock market anticipates economic conditions and corporate
profitability 6-9 months down the road...."

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 9:21:01 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> On 2/6/2018 4:20 PM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 10:48:52 AM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> >> On 2/6/2018 3:59 AM, maxw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>> On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 9:48:45 PM UTC-5, Josh Rosenbluth wrote:
> >>>> On 2/2/2018 3:13 PM, islander wrote:
> >>>>> DJIA down 666 points!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The number six implies imperfection. Often, numbers are used as symbols
> >>>>> in the Bible. Seven typically represents completeness or perfection.
> >>>>> Six, being one short of seven, can denote something incomplete or flawed
> >>>>> in God’s eyes, and it can be associated with God’s enemies.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At least that is what the Evangelicals believe...
> >>>>
> >>>> We had a really good jobs report today including an increase in wages.
> >>>> Very strange. Sure the market is overpriced, but why today?
> >>>
> >>> I am sure by now you have heard about the excuse being speculation on
> >>> higher interest rates. Good economy, low inflation, is now considered
> >>> bad news for stocks.
> >>
> >> From what I have heard, it's a good economy that causes high inflation
> >> that is bad news.
> >
> > Ok. But PPI and CPI have mostly been in line with expectations.
>
> It appears Wall Street is nervous about that changing as the economy
> gathers steam.

Ok. When fear based on speculation carries more weight than
fundamentals, I think we should all be nervous.

[bill bowden]

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018 at 6:49:21 PM UTC-8, Lawrence Akutagawa wrote:

> ***** This line separates my response from the foregoing ******
>
> Well, one of the old market adages is that the market does not perform
> according to current economic conditions, but on anticipated economic
> conditions 6 - 9 months down the road. That timing should coincide when the > Trump tax act consequences should really take hold as the Treasury seeks
> more debt to pay for the Whining Donald gifts to all those rich, wealthy,
> propertied, and the corporations.
> from
> https://books.google.com/books?id=5Ppd6lLGl24C&pg=PA22&lpg=PA22&dq=stock+market+anticipates+adage&source=bl&ots=xcKUNh4-r3&sig=m8wdUNJWZ60y5IQmaJhQuIC9JEs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW5fTX45LZAhUK8IMKHekXCUEQ6AEIQjAE#v=onepage&q=stock%20market%20anticipates%20adage&f=false
> "...the stock market anticipates economic conditions and corporate
> profitability 6-9 months down the road...."
>

So, is that why the market went up 567 today? You should have bought yesterday. The late bird looses the worm.

[maxw...@my-deja.com]

Speculation has always been in the markets, but I have
never seen it to this degree. Usually fundamentals
carry more weight.
However, in the last few years I have seen higher than
expected earnings for a company result in big sell off
of the stock.

[Josh Rosenbluth]

I don't see how you can be certain that the fundamentals do not point
towards inflation. Nor can I see how Wall Street disagrees with you.
In time, we will see.

[Lawrence Akutagawa]

"bill bowden" wrote in message
news:603b29d0-41fc-4cae...@googlegroups.com...

Well, your observation here is much akin to the GOP tax bill:
1 for Joe Six Pack
1,000 for the rich, wealthy, and propertied
1,000,000 for the corporations

Now Joe Six Pack should be as happy as can be because of his 1....just as
you are happy as can be that the market went up 567 today after dropping
1100 or so points the past week or so.

As for the coming days/weeks/months, in the favorite words of The Whining
Donald:
"We will see."