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Morning Gays at the AHA

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Geoffrey Scott Puterbaugh

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Jan 1, 1991, 6:56:48 PM1/1/91
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John Clark writes:
>Louie Crew writes:
>lc>Both panelists mentioned the minimal attention which reformists give
>lc>to inter-generational sex. While many other cultures have not only
>lc>tolerated but actively promoted inter-generational gay sex, in our
>
>What is this suppose to mean? Does it mean 'grave robbing' or
>'cradle robbing'.

It seems safe to assume that the panelists were referring to
(pick your term) man-boy love, pederasty, ephebophilia.
They may also have been referring to korephilia (woman-girl) and
(looking internationally) may have been referring to paedophilia,
since Dutch reformers seem to have seized on this term to refer
to all inter-generational sex.

It seems highly unlikely that they were referring to the
illegal disinterment of the dead ("grave robbing"). This is
not a sexual act, but an act of theft.

>With the arbitrary assignment of 'maturity' at age X, then any
>activity below that age is defined as 'abuse' or exploitation,
>how can there be any inter-generation positive sexual activity?

I am not sure whether you are putting forward an argument or
simply trying to describe the real world. In either case, the
key word is 'arbitrary.' In some places the age is 15, in other
places it is 18, and in some places it is 21. (In some places, of
course, like Ireland, the age is 'never.')

The whole concept of an "age of consent" is pretty new-fangled,
coming in around 1800 or 1900. So that would explain some of
the confusion.

One key thing to realize is that England, despite the fact that
it legalized 'homosexuality,' would still arrest Oscar Wilde
today, in 1991, because Lord Alfred Douglas was not 21 years
old at the time their affair began. It is unclear why the
heterosexual 'age of consent' is three years younger in England.

It remains a fact that other societies have tolerated and even
encouraged love affairs between teenage boys and older men.
Ancient Greece is the most obvious. See Dover's "Greek
Homosexuality" for the details. For some cross-cultural
information, Sir Richard Burton's "Terminal Essay" to his
translation of "The Thousand Nights and a Night" is still
good reading.

If you are really wondering "how can there be any inter-generation
positive sexual activity," you will simply have to ask the people who
are doing it. A Dutchman spent some time doing this and
published the results, which are available in English.
(Theo Sandfort: "The Sexual Aspect of Paedophile Relations:
The experience of twenty-five boys.") Or you might ask
Michelangelo and his beloved Tomasso de Cavaliere, though this
love was unconsummated.

>Further when both participants are under that age, one has to be
>assigned the victim and the other the perpetrator.

This escaped me entirely. Here in California, the 'legal age'
is 18. You may not be aware of the fact, but there are numerous
instances of kids under 18 having sex with one another. It is
even alleged to be commonplace. There is no jail penalty for
this.

I personally know of a fine comic experience, where a young
couple had been having it on regularly for fourteen months, and
when the boy celebrated his 18th birthday the girl's step-mother
attempted to have him arrested for statutory rape. When the
police figured out the real situation, they had a good laugh and
went home.

>This seems to me in keeping with the fundamental assumption that
>sex in this society is still viewed for procreational purposes
>only.

In what society? My oldest brother got a vasectomy twenty years
ago and has had a very active sex life since then. My second oldest
brother had one child and several miscarriages, and finally adopted
his second child. I have not directly asked him, but I believe
that he and his wife continue to have sex even though hope of
further children has been abandoned. Main-stream America might
*say* that "sex was only for procreation" but they sure don't
believe it, and never have. Almost all men have masturbated
countless times, we have millions of intentionally childless
couples, millions more living together without children.
As Ann Landers would say, "Wake up and smell the coffee."
I think that Edward O. Wilson was closer to the truth when he
remarked that if sex was "for" anything, it was "for" enabling
humans to bond with one another. It certainly seems to provide
the most sensational physical pleasure most people ever come
across..

In the real world, some people accomplish reproduction without
sex. I know of one gay man with 37 children (sperm bank).

I am not sure if this answers your question, but then again
I am not sure that you were asking a question.

Laura Creighton

unread,
Jan 3, 1991, 4:49:15 AM1/3/91
to
If you know the ``statuatory rape'' age, for goodness sakes remember
that it varies from state to state. I well known baseball player,
while out of town, got propositined by a woman. He asked her her age.
She said ``18''. Knowing that 16 was the limit where he came from,
he said ``fun, fun, fun''. Her other got him arrested. He was
caught in flagrante delecto (did I spell that right?). It turns out
that she was 16, and the legal age in that state was 20 or 21.

So, he said, am I supposed to ask for ID?

]It was clear in the cour proceddings that she had hit him up, but that
didn't matter. He got convicted, though with a fine rather than jail.
What was most stupid, is that the fact that he hails from Columbia or
other foreign country, hius whole citizenship bid was in jepordy. Despite
being a real decent baseball player (though not first rate). Just
because he got the age wrong.

Do take care. In my books 16 year olds get to have sex with
whomever they want to, but the law is very different. One of the
ones I want to change in a hurry. I do not know how much
protection an average sixteen year old deserves, but a precicious
one ought to be able to experiment with sex.

When I was 18 I was a 3rd year at universuty. But the sex I was
having could legally leave me and my lovers in jail. No doubt I
was blessed with female lovers -- so rape was not an issue, since
that required a male to hit me up. But assuming that I was more bi or
het -- well, the legal problem is still there. We have to fix these
where we live.

Laura

ps -- if you picked the ``I am pissed that only men can be
criminals''. well, yes it was there. I think that there are only
a very few feamle rapists, but I know of a few. Sex between consenting
partners is not rape. At 16 you can tell the difference. Statuatory
RAPE, as it pertains to 15 year olds doing what they want to, is
total bullshit.

Laura


--
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

Laura Creighton
uunet!hoptoad!laura utzoo!hoptoad!laura sun!hoptoad!laura to...@toad.com

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