The Name Otes

John Watson

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:18:03 PM9/17/14

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Dear all,

Complete Peerage, when dealing with anyone who in medieval documents appears as Oto, Odo, Otto, Oda, etc, anglicizes their name to Otes. But is this a real name?

A search through English censuses between 1841 and 1911, on Ancestry.com, reveals only one person with a first name of Otes and this is probably a transcription error.

My feeling is that the name of Otto sound too Germanic for British tastes in the early 20th century and it was decided to use the more English sounding Otes instead, even though this name has never been given to anyone.

Anyone have any thoughts on this.

Regards,

John

Vance Mead

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:29:53 PM9/17/14

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I think it must be an Anglo-Saxon name - there was an archbishop Odo in the 10th century. In 15th and 16th century common pleas records it occurs as Odo or Oto particularly in Cornwall.

Steve Wilson

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:30:35 PM9/17/14

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One example of the name "Oates" that comes to mind immediately can be found in the 1619 testament of Dorothy, widow of George Reddish of Reddish, which names her son Oates Reddish:

http://books.google.com/books?id=rP8UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA208&dq=oates+reddish&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tNIZVLjjLJKeyASAl4LwDg&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=oates%20reddish&f=false

norenxaq via

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:34:25 PM9/17/14

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Vance Mead via wrote:

>I think it must be an Anglo-Saxon name - there was an archbishop Odo in the 10th century. In 15th and 16th century common pleas records it occurs as Odo or Oto particularly in Cornwall.
>
>
>

also relatively common in france at the time

Message has been deleted

Vance Mead

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:40:51 PM9/17/14

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Second to last entry, Odo Robyn of Bodmyn, yeoman, 1460, common pleas

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0742.htm

Steve Wilson

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Sep 17, 2014, 3:01:31 PM9/17/14

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It's probably worth noting that Reddishes of Lancashire were using the name "Oates" or "Otho" as early as the latter half of the 15th century.

The name "Otho" also appears with some frequency amongst the Gilberts of Compton Castle, Devonshire in the 15th century.

Otho Thorpe of London and Virginia (1606-1686) also comes to mind.

Douglas Richardson

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Sep 17, 2014, 3:54:05 PM9/17/14

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On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:18:03 PM UTC-6, John Watson wrote:
< Complete Peerage, when dealing with anyone who in medieval documents appears as <Oto, Odo, Otto, Oda, etc, anglicizes their name to Otes. But is this a real name?

< John

Dear John ~

Yes, the name Otes is quite real. Although a more common form was Otis/Otys.

A simple way to check on the vernacular form of any name is to search the early Chancery lawsuits indexed in the Discovery catalog. The Chancery lawsuits were principally in English, some in French. As such, it is easy to determine how given names were spelled in the vernacular in the medieval period.

If you check Chancery lawsuits in the Discovery catalogue, you will quickly find many references to men named Otes/Otys/Otis. Here are some examples:

Otes Trelowdro, Otes Trewyk, Otes Philypp/Otys Felyp, Otes Laurence/Otys Laurens, Otes Trenwyth/Otys Treunwith, Otys Gylbert, Otys Laurence, Otys Thompkyn, Otis Draper, Otis Trefusis, etc.

There was no Otho, by the way. Otho is Latin for Otes/Otys/Otis and should be avoided.

In a similar vein, Matilda is Latin for Maud and should be avoided.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

Matt Tompkins

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Sep 17, 2014, 4:42:21 PM9/17/14

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> On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 12:18:03 PM UTC-6, John Watson wrote:
> > < Complete Peerage, when dealing with anyone who in medieval documents appears as <Oto, Odo, Otto, Oda, etc, anglicizes their name to Otes. But is this a real name?
>

On Wednesday, 17 September 2014 20:54:05 UTC+1, Douglas Richardson wrote:> Yes, the name Otes is quite real. Although a more common form was Otis/Otys.

>
> A simple way to check on the vernacular form of any name is to search the early Chancery lawsuits indexed in the Discovery catalog. The Chancery lawsuits were principally in English, some in French. As such, it is easy to determine how given names were spelled in the vernacular in the medieval period.
>
> If you check Chancery lawsuits in the Discovery catalogue, you will quickly find many references to men named Otes/Otys/Otis. Here are some examples:
>
> Otes Trelowdro, Otes Trewyk, Otes Philypp/Otys Felyp, Otes Laurence/Otys Laurens, Otes Trenwyth/Otys Treunwith, Otys Gylbert, Otys Laurence, Otys Thompkyn, Otis Draper, Otis Trefusis, etc.
>
> There was no Otho, by the way. Otho is Latin for Otes/Otys/Otis and should be avoided.
>

As the list above suggests, Otes was particularly a name of the late medieval southwest, and especially of Cornwall.

Searching through the Corpus of Middle English Prose and Verse produces several examples of Otes in English-language texts, for example:

'Sir Otes de Grauntsoun' in Peter Langtoft's Chronicle (late 13C)

'Sire Otes' in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales (Gamelyn's Tale)

'Duke Otes of Pauye' in Guy of Warwick (14C)

'the legat sir Otes ... fram Rome' in the metrical chronicle of Robert of Gloucester (late 13C)

Some examples of Otto, Otho and Odo can also be found, though principally referring to the German emperor or in Latinate forms or, oddly enough, in monastic cartularies.

Matt Tompkins

John Watson

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Sep 17, 2014, 4:46:07 PM9/17/14

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Dear Douglas,

You may be correct, but the first name Otes in Chancery Proceedings does not seem to occur much outside of Cornwall. What were people called Odo or Oto in medieval documents actually called by their contemporaries? I don't think that it was Otes, it is much more likely to have been Odo or Oto.

Regards,

John

PDeloriol via

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Sep 17, 2014, 2:53:32 PM9/17/14

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What about the modern variant , Otis? Maybe one could go back to the origin
of this name? It strikes me that the 's' may be synonymous with the
shortened form of 'Son' as in Rawlings(son), Jones (son), son of john, etc - it
may then be construed as son of Otto............Not Otis Redding!
PG

In a message dated 17/09/2014 19:20:06 GMT Daylight Time,
gen-me...@rootsweb.com writes:

Dear all,

Complete Peerage, when dealing with anyone who in medieval documents
appears as Oto, Odo, Otto, Oda, etc, anglicizes their name to Otes. But is this
a real name?

A search through English censuses between 1841 and 1911, on Ancestry.com,
reveals only one person with a first name of Otes and this is probably a
transcription error.

My feeling is that the name of Otto sound too Germanic for British tastes
in the early 20th century and it was decided to use the more English
sounding Otes instead, even though this name has never been given to anyone.

Anyone have any thoughts on this.

Regards,

John

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Ian Goddard

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Sep 18, 2014, 6:04:35 AM9/18/14

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By coincidence I came across an example yesterday extracting Kay[e]
records from Vol 1 of Collins: PRs of Kirkburton. He had a daughter
Elizabeth bapt on 21 Dec 1594 and a son John on 12 Sep 1596. There may
be more as I've paused the end of the 1500s.

In the second example Collins lists the name with a question mark after
the name. In the first instance it's spelled Oates. I've come across a
few individuals with the forename Rye at about the same time. I'm still
looking forward to finding Wheat & Barley ;)

--
Ian

The Hotmail address is my spam-bin. Real mail address is iang
at austonley org uk