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C.P. Correction: Mother of Isabel de Periton, wife of Sir Robert de Welle and Sir William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy
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celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 26, 2018, 5:02:33 AM8/26/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 12(2) (1959): 281–285 (sub Vescy), 438 (sub Welles) identifies Isabel de Periton (died 1315), wife of Sir Robert de Welle and William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy, as the "2nd daughter and co-heiress of Adam de Periton (died shortly before 24 Feb. 1265/6), of Ellington, Northumberland, Faxton, Northants, and Rampisham, Dorset, probably by Sarah.” END OF QUOTE
Complete Peerage cites as its documentation Calendar of Close Rolls 1264–1268 (1937): 254–255, which record confirms that in 1266 Adam de Periton was survived by a wife named Sarah. This record also states that Isabel de Welle was one of his daughters and co-heirs. So far, so good. See the following weblink for the Close Rolls item:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE921040
Two sources not consulted by Complete Peerage, namely Wiltshire Arch. & Natural Hist. Magazine 12 (1870): 383 and Leach, English Schools at the Reformation, 1546–8 (1896): 48–49, 262 include abstracts from an inventory of Wiltshire chantries taken in 37 Henry VIII, which includes a history of a chantry previously founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire. The inventory records that Adam de Purton, Knt., formerly gave all his lands in Crudwell, Wiltshire to the vicar of Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire and to his sucessors “to the Intente the sayd vicar for the tyme beynge shuld fynd a prieeste to synge for the soule of the said Adam, Cycelye and Sare his wives, within the sayd churche for euer.”
See the following weblinks for these two sources:
1. Wiltshire Arch. & Natural Hist. Mag. 12 (1870): 383:
https://books.google.com/books?id=AcYxAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA383
2. Leach, English Schools at the Reformation, 1546–8 (1896): 48–49, 262
https://books.google.com/books?id=IrUAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA48
https://books.google.com/books?id=IrUAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA262
VCH Wiltshire 18 (2011): 109-140 identifies Sir Adam Purton, founder of the chantry at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire as being the same person as Adam de Periton, the father of Isabel (de Periton) (Welle) (Vescy). It provides the following information:
"An estate at Ashton Keynes, apparently a small manor, was held in the early 13th century by Thomas of Sandford (d. by 1242), who held the lordship of Chelworth (Cricklade). The estate at Ashton Keynes was held as dower by Thomas's widow Agnes, passed to his nephew and coheir Adam of Purton (d. c. 1265), who was said to hold it of Tewkesbury abbey, and passed to Adam's grandson and coheir Robert de Keynes (d. in or before 1281); Robert's heir was his son Robert, a minor .... Adam of Purton (d. c. 1265), who held the Rectory estate, gave land in Chedglow (in Crudwell parish) to endow a chantry, where a priest appointed by the vicar of Ashton Keynes, could pray for Adam's soul and the souls of his wives. The chantry was in a private chapel on his manor, probably near the present church at Ashton Keynes, but the arrangement had fallen into abeyance by the early 16th century." END OF QUOTE.
Assuming we can trust a late date chantry inventory, it would appear that Sir Adam de Periton/Purton had an earlier 1st wife, Cecily, not known to Complete Peerage. Given that Isabel de Welle had a daughter by the name Cecily and not Sarah, it seems to me that Cecily, 1st wife of Sir Adam de Periton, is more likely the mother of Isabel de Welle, rather than Sir Adam's 2nd surviving wife, Sarah, as alleged by Complete Peerage. It should also be noted that the given name Cecily occurs repeatedly in later generations of the Welle/Welles family, but not the name Sarah.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Isabel de Periton/Purton (died 1315) and her 1st husband, Sir Robert de Welle (died 1265):
Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Walter Aston, Dorothy Beresford, Richard & William Bernard, Essex Beville, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Joseph Bolles, Nathaniel Browne, Charles Calvert, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy Clarke, James Cudworth, Margaret Fleming, William Goddard, Katherine Hamby, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Henry, Jane, & Nicholas Lowe, Thomas Lunsford, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Thomas Owsley, Herbert Pelham, George Reade, Thomas Rudyard, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Olive Welby, John West.
I can add that the following 17th Century New World immigrants descend from Isabel de Periton's younger sister, Katherine de Periton, and her husband, Sir John Paynel:
Catherine Loraine, Philip & Thomas Nelson
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Complete Peerage 12(2) (1959): 281–285 (sub Vescy), 438 (sub Welles) identifies Isabel de Periton (died 1315), wife of Sir Robert de Welle and William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy, as the "2nd daughter and co-heiress of Adam de Periton (died shortly before 24 Feb. 1265/6), of Ellington, Northumberland, Faxton, Northants, and Rampisham, Dorset, probably by Sarah.” END OF QUOTE
Complete Peerage cites as its documentation Calendar of Close Rolls 1264–1268 (1937): 254–255, which record confirms that in 1266 Adam de Periton was survived by a wife named Sarah. This record also states that Isabel de Welle was one of his daughters and co-heirs. So far, so good. See the following weblink for the Close Rolls item:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE921040
Two sources not consulted by Complete Peerage, namely Wiltshire Arch. & Natural Hist. Magazine 12 (1870): 383 and Leach, English Schools at the Reformation, 1546–8 (1896): 48–49, 262 include abstracts from an inventory of Wiltshire chantries taken in 37 Henry VIII, which includes a history of a chantry previously founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire. The inventory records that Adam de Purton, Knt., formerly gave all his lands in Crudwell, Wiltshire to the vicar of Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire and to his sucessors “to the Intente the sayd vicar for the tyme beynge shuld fynd a prieeste to synge for the soule of the said Adam, Cycelye and Sare his wives, within the sayd churche for euer.”
See the following weblinks for these two sources:
1. Wiltshire Arch. & Natural Hist. Mag. 12 (1870): 383:
https://books.google.com/books?id=AcYxAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA383
2. Leach, English Schools at the Reformation, 1546–8 (1896): 48–49, 262
https://books.google.com/books?id=IrUAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA48
https://books.google.com/books?id=IrUAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA262
VCH Wiltshire 18 (2011): 109-140 identifies Sir Adam Purton, founder of the chantry at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire as being the same person as Adam de Periton, the father of Isabel (de Periton) (Welle) (Vescy). It provides the following information:
"An estate at Ashton Keynes, apparently a small manor, was held in the early 13th century by Thomas of Sandford (d. by 1242), who held the lordship of Chelworth (Cricklade). The estate at Ashton Keynes was held as dower by Thomas's widow Agnes, passed to his nephew and coheir Adam of Purton (d. c. 1265), who was said to hold it of Tewkesbury abbey, and passed to Adam's grandson and coheir Robert de Keynes (d. in or before 1281); Robert's heir was his son Robert, a minor .... Adam of Purton (d. c. 1265), who held the Rectory estate, gave land in Chedglow (in Crudwell parish) to endow a chantry, where a priest appointed by the vicar of Ashton Keynes, could pray for Adam's soul and the souls of his wives. The chantry was in a private chapel on his manor, probably near the present church at Ashton Keynes, but the arrangement had fallen into abeyance by the early 16th century." END OF QUOTE.
Assuming we can trust a late date chantry inventory, it would appear that Sir Adam de Periton/Purton had an earlier 1st wife, Cecily, not known to Complete Peerage. Given that Isabel de Welle had a daughter by the name Cecily and not Sarah, it seems to me that Cecily, 1st wife of Sir Adam de Periton, is more likely the mother of Isabel de Welle, rather than Sir Adam's 2nd surviving wife, Sarah, as alleged by Complete Peerage. It should also be noted that the given name Cecily occurs repeatedly in later generations of the Welle/Welles family, but not the name Sarah.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Isabel de Periton/Purton (died 1315) and her 1st husband, Sir Robert de Welle (died 1265):
Robert Abell, Dannett Abney, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Walter Aston, Dorothy Beresford, Richard & William Bernard, Essex Beville, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Joseph Bolles, Nathaniel Browne, Charles Calvert, Grace Chetwode, Jeremy Clarke, James Cudworth, Margaret Fleming, William Goddard, Katherine Hamby, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Henry, Jane, & Nicholas Lowe, Thomas Lunsford, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Anne Mauleverer, Thomas Owsley, Herbert Pelham, George Reade, Thomas Rudyard, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Olive Welby, John West.
I can add that the following 17th Century New World immigrants descend from Isabel de Periton's younger sister, Katherine de Periton, and her husband, Sir John Paynel:
Catherine Loraine, Philip & Thomas Nelson
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 26, 2018, 1:00:38 PM8/26/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
Interested Purton-Welles-Paynel family descendants may wish to consult additional material on the family of Sir Adam de Purton/Periton (died 1366) found in the sources listed below. Curiously none of these sources mention either of Sir Adam de Purton's wives, Cecily and Sarah.
1. Dugdale, Antiquities of Warwickshire 1 (1730): 670–672 (Piriton ped.) (arms of Adam de Periton arms: Barry of six pieces, and upon a Canton 3. barrs wavie).
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=EWhZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA611&lpg
2. Hodgson, Hist. of Northumberland Pt. 2 Vol. 2 (1832): 195–197 (Periton-Welles ped.), 211–212.
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=lIuAejPVbEwC&pg=PA196
3. Banks, Baronies in Fees 2 (1844): 112–114 (sub Painel), which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1mOkWOyde8YC&pg=PA113
4. Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 6(2) (1846): 842 (undated charter of Adam de Pyriton, Knt., son of Thomas de Pyriton to the Knights Templar, London).
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=hc3PxVZNZugC&pg=PA842&lpg=PA842
5. Wiltshire Notes & Queries 1 (1896): 339–344, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BrJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA341
6. VCH Northampton 4 (1937): 167–172, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/northants/vol4/pp167-172
7. Early Yorkshire Charters 6 (1939): 13–14, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=uTwHG7akovwC&pg=PA14
8. VCH Warwick 5 (1949): 124–128, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/warks/vol5/pp124-128
9. VCH Oxford 5 (1957): 267–275, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol5/pp267-275
10. VCH Wiltshire 4 (1959): 433–457, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol4/pp433-457
Interested Purton-Welles-Paynel family descendants may wish to consult additional material on the family of Sir Adam de Purton/Periton (died 1366) found in the sources listed below. Curiously none of these sources mention either of Sir Adam de Purton's wives, Cecily and Sarah.
1. Dugdale, Antiquities of Warwickshire 1 (1730): 670–672 (Piriton ped.) (arms of Adam de Periton arms: Barry of six pieces, and upon a Canton 3. barrs wavie).
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=EWhZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA611&lpg
2. Hodgson, Hist. of Northumberland Pt. 2 Vol. 2 (1832): 195–197 (Periton-Welles ped.), 211–212.
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=lIuAejPVbEwC&pg=PA196
3. Banks, Baronies in Fees 2 (1844): 112–114 (sub Painel), which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=1mOkWOyde8YC&pg=PA113
4. Dugdale, Monasticon Anglicanum 6(2) (1846): 842 (undated charter of Adam de Pyriton, Knt., son of Thomas de Pyriton to the Knights Templar, London).
This may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=hc3PxVZNZugC&pg=PA842&lpg=PA842
5. Wiltshire Notes & Queries 1 (1896): 339–344, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BrJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA341
6. VCH Northampton 4 (1937): 167–172, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/northants/vol4/pp167-172
7. Early Yorkshire Charters 6 (1939): 13–14, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=uTwHG7akovwC&pg=PA14
8. VCH Warwick 5 (1949): 124–128, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/warks/vol5/pp124-128
9. VCH Oxford 5 (1957): 267–275, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/oxon/vol5/pp267-275
10. VCH Wiltshire 4 (1959): 433–457, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol4/pp433-457
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 26, 2018, 2:00:03 PM8/26/18
to
In my post just now, I stated incorrectly that Sir Adam de Purton/Periton died in 1366. I meant, of course, 1266.
DR
DR
joe...@gmail.com
Aug 26, 2018, 4:27:09 PM8/26/18
to
On Sunday, August 26, 2018 at 2:00:03 PM UTC-4, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> In my post just now, I stated incorrectly that Sir Adam de Purton/Periton died in 1366. I meant, of course, 1266.
>
> DR
Is the exact relationship known between Adam's father Thomas, and Thomas's uncle Egelin of whom he was the heir?
> In my post just now, I stated incorrectly that Sir Adam de Purton/Periton died in 1366. I meant, of course, 1266.
>
> DR
--Joe Cook
celticp...@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2018, 1:11:32 AM8/28/18
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
I found the record below in the online Discovery Catalogue. This record concerns the chantry founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire by Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266], father of Isabel de Purton, wife of Sir Robert de Welle and Sir William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy. Here is the record:
Source: E - Records of the Exchequer, and its related bodies, with those of the Office of First Fruits and Tenths, and the Court of Augmentations
Reference: E 314/67/24
Description: L.Hyde, deputy surveyor, informant Information against Richard Poorte, vicar of Ashton Keynes, Wilts, concerning obligation to find a priest from lands of Sir Adam de Purton in Crudwell. Fiat for commission.
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description. END OF QUOTE.
+ + + + + +
There is a distinct possibility that Sir Adam de Purton or his wife, Cecily, were closely related in some manner to Sir Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester (died 1326).
Contemporary records indicate that Robert de Keynes, great-grandson of Sir Adam de Purton, referred to Sir Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester, as his kinsman. The relationship between the two men has never been established.
1. Desc. Cat. Ancient Deeds 3 (1900): 113 (grant dated c.1300 by Robert de Kaines, son of Sir Robert de Kaynes, to Sir Hugh le Despenser, his kinsman, of his manor of Somerford, Wiltshire). This record may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=g1M4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA113
2. Ancient Deeds — Ser. A 1 (List & Index Soc. 151) (1978): 166 (Hugh le Despenser styled “kinsman” by Robert de Kaines [Kaynes] son of Sir Robert de Kaines [Kaynes]).
Interested parties can find a discussion of the Keynes family in Wiltshire Notes & Queries, Volume 1 (1896), pp. 404-407, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BrJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA404
I might mention that the New World immigrant, Gov. Thomas Dudley, descends from the Keynes family. Thus he would be yet another descendant of Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266].
I found the record below in the online Discovery Catalogue. This record concerns the chantry founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire by Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266], father of Isabel de Purton, wife of Sir Robert de Welle and Sir William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy. Here is the record:
Source: E - Records of the Exchequer, and its related bodies, with those of the Office of First Fruits and Tenths, and the Court of Augmentations
Reference: E 314/67/24
Description: L.Hyde, deputy surveyor, informant Information against Richard Poorte, vicar of Ashton Keynes, Wilts, concerning obligation to find a priest from lands of Sir Adam de Purton in Crudwell. Fiat for commission.
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description. END OF QUOTE.
+ + + + + +
There is a distinct possibility that Sir Adam de Purton or his wife, Cecily, were closely related in some manner to Sir Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester (died 1326).
Contemporary records indicate that Robert de Keynes, great-grandson of Sir Adam de Purton, referred to Sir Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester, as his kinsman. The relationship between the two men has never been established.
1. Desc. Cat. Ancient Deeds 3 (1900): 113 (grant dated c.1300 by Robert de Kaines, son of Sir Robert de Kaynes, to Sir Hugh le Despenser, his kinsman, of his manor of Somerford, Wiltshire). This record may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=g1M4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA113
2. Ancient Deeds — Ser. A 1 (List & Index Soc. 151) (1978): 166 (Hugh le Despenser styled “kinsman” by Robert de Kaines [Kaynes] son of Sir Robert de Kaines [Kaynes]).
Interested parties can find a discussion of the Keynes family in Wiltshire Notes & Queries, Volume 1 (1896), pp. 404-407, which may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BrJCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA404
I might mention that the New World immigrant, Gov. Thomas Dudley, descends from the Keynes family. Thus he would be yet another descendant of Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266].
joe...@gmail.com
Aug 28, 2018, 9:06:53 AM8/28/18
to
On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 1:11:32 AM UTC-4, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> I found the record below in the online Discovery Catalogue. This record concerns the chantry founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire by Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266], father of Isabel de Purton, wife of Sir Robert de Welle and Sir William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy. Here is the record:
<snip
> Dear Newsgroup ~
>
> I found the record below in the online Discovery Catalogue. This record concerns the chantry founded at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire by Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266], father of Isabel de Purton, wife of Sir Robert de Welle and Sir William de Vescy, 1st Lord Vescy. Here is the record:
> I might mention that the New World immigrant, Gov. Thomas Dudley, descends from the Keynes family. Thus he would be yet another descendant of Sir Adam de Purton [died 1266].
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Douglas,
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Are you sure of this connection to Thomas Dudley?
Margery/Margaret, daughter of Adam de Periton married William de
Keynes. However, "The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England: Or,
An Historical and ..., Volume 1" states (on page 102) that they had
one son Robert who had two sons Robert and William; Robert d.s.p left
his brother William who in turn had three daughters and two sons. His
sons left no descendants, leaving the three daughters as heirs as
follows:
- Letitia, married Ayotte, had issue Lawrence (no grandchildren)
- Elizabeth (did not marry)
- Hawisa married Robert de Daventre.
I do not believe Robert de Daventre is a ancestor of Thomas Dudley?
--Joe Cook
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 3, 2018, 6:22:39 PM9/3/18
to
Thank you!
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 5:25:49 PM9/11/18
to
On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 7:06:53 AM UTC-6, joe...@gmail.com wrote:
< Douglas,
< Are you sure of this connection to Thomas Dudley?
< Margery/Margaret, daughter of Adam de Periton married William de
< Keynes. However, "The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England: Or,
< An Historical and ..., Volume 1" states (on page 102) that they had
< one son Robert who had two sons Robert and William; Robert d.s.p left
< his brother William who in turn had three daughters and two sons. His
< sons left no descendants, leaving the three daughters as heirs as
< follows:
<
< - Letitia, married Ayotte, had issue Lawrence (no grandchildren)
< - Elizabeth (did not marry)
<
- Hawisa married Robert de Daventre.
<
< I do not believe Robert de Daventre is a ancestor of Thomas Dudley?
<
< --Joe Cook
Dear Joe ~
< Douglas,
< Are you sure of this connection to Thomas Dudley?
< Margery/Margaret, daughter of Adam de Periton married William de
< Keynes. However, "The Dormant and Extinct Baronage of England: Or,
< An Historical and ..., Volume 1" states (on page 102) that they had
< one son Robert who had two sons Robert and William; Robert d.s.p left
< his brother William who in turn had three daughters and two sons. His
< sons left no descendants, leaving the three daughters as heirs as
< follows:
<
< - Letitia, married Ayotte, had issue Lawrence (no grandchildren)
< - Elizabeth (did not marry)
<
- Hawisa married Robert de Daventre.
<
< I do not believe Robert de Daventre is a ancestor of Thomas Dudley?
<
< --Joe Cook
Gov. Thomas Dudley descends from Lettice de Keynes, who married a Ayotte/Ayot. The governor's line of descent from this family was worked out about 20 years ago in a series of well researched articles pertaining to his ancestry by F.N. Craig which appeared in the New England Hist. and Gen. Register. Overall I have a high opinion of Mr. Craig's work.
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 5:57:58 PM9/11/18
to
--Joe C
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
Sep 11, 2018, 7:48:20 PM9/11/18
to
On 2018-09-11 21:25:47 +0000, celticp...@gmail.com said:
> Gov. Thomas Dudley descends from Lettice de Keynes, who married a
> Ayotte/Ayot. The governor's line of descent from this family was
> worked out about 20 years ago in a series of well researched articles
> pertaining to his ancestry by F.N. Craig which appeared in the New
> England Hist. and Gen. Register. Overall I have a high opinion of Mr.
> Craig's work.
But to the best of my knowledge, F. N. Craig disclaimed the Ayot
> Gov. Thomas Dudley descends from Lettice de Keynes, who married a
> Ayotte/Ayot. The governor's line of descent from this family was
> worked out about 20 years ago in a series of well researched articles
> pertaining to his ancestry by F.N. Craig which appeared in the New
> England Hist. and Gen. Register. Overall I have a high opinion of Mr.
> Craig's work.
ancestry for Gov. Dudley in "Corrections and Additions to the Purefoy
Line in the Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas Dudley of
Massachusetts Bay", in The American Genealogist 77, page 57, 2002. "The
conclusion that William IV Purefoy and William V Purefoy were the same
individual makes it necessary to delete the Ayot line from the Purefoy
pedigree." Has this been contradicted by subsequent research? I'm sure
people in this newsgroup are more familiar with the literature than I
am.
--
Patrick Nielsen Hayden
http://nielsenhayden.com
http://nielsenhayden.com/genealogy-tng/
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 7:58:25 PM9/11/18
to
Dear Patrick - I wasn't aware that Mr. Craig had disclaimed the Ayot connection. He may be right. Can you post a synopsis of the problem?
DR
DR
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 8:50:26 PM9/11/18
to
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 7:58:25 PM UTC-4, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Patrick - I wasn't aware that Mr. Craig had disclaimed the Ayot connection. He may be right. Can you post a synopsis of the problem?
>
> DR
> Dear Patrick - I wasn't aware that Mr. Craig had disclaimed the Ayot connection. He may be right. Can you post a synopsis of the problem?
>
> DR
"Corrections and Additions to the Purefoy Line in the Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas Dudley of Massachusetts Bay"
"However, on reviewing the matter, I found no proof that William IV [Purefoy] died and left a son William V. Also, Chronology makes it unlikely that the daughter of Alan Ayot had a child Philip born as late as 1442. It seems more likely that she died without leaving surviving issue, and that WIlliam IV married Margery as his second wife... makes it necessary to delete the Ayot line from the Purefoy pedigree, although Alan Ayot's manor of Shalstone remains with the Purefoy family."
Further details can be found in TAG 77:57. Back issues are available via order. Douglas, if you would like scans of this article I am happy to email them along. Let me know.
--Joe Cook
John Higgins
Sep 11, 2018, 8:52:41 PM9/11/18
to
NEHGR 139:283-287 Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas Dudley: St. Clair and Audley Lines
NEHGR 140:219-229 Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas Dudley: Hoo, St. Omer, Malmains, St. Leger, Fitzwarin and Andevill Lines
NEHGR 142:227-244 Maternal Ancestry of Governor Thomas Dudley: Purefoy, Ayot and Denton Lines
But, as Patrick Nielsen Hayden has noted, Craig disclaimed the Ayot ancestry for Gov. Dudley in an article in TAG 77:57-65. The first paragraph of the article summarizes his conclusion very well:
"I found no proof that William [Purefoy] IV died and left a son William V. Also, chronology makes it unlikely that the daughter of Alan Ayot had a child born as late as 1442. It seems more likely that she died without leaving surviving issue, and that William IV married Margery as his second wife, and was the same William Purefoy who died in 1466. The conclusion that William IV Purefoy and William V Purefoy were the same individual makes it necessary to delete the Ayot line from the Purefoy pedigree."
This article should certainly be available to you at the FHL. I'm unaware of any subsequent discussion that would cast doubt on Craig's conclusion. Since you "have a high opinion of Mr. Craig's work", no doubt you'll agree with his conclusion - now that you've become aware of it 16 years after it was published. :-)
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 10:23:04 PM9/11/18
to
He relies on the Liconshire Pedigrees and Visitation to link Margery Moton, wife of William Purefoy. Although he refers to it as a "working hypothesis" given the lack of primary sources backing up the 1619 Visitation.
I do note the following Common Pleas case between William Purefoy and John Mallory, among others, dated 1418.
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no629/aCP40no629fronts/IMG_0591.htm
--Joe C
John Higgins
Sep 11, 2018, 11:25:51 PM9/11/18
to
Craig is quite upfront in recognizing that there are not many primary sources available to provide support for this descent. But those that are available, plus the secondary sources he cites, do seem to provide adequate support for his "working hypothesis".
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 11, 2018, 11:44:41 PM9/11/18
to
--JC
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 12, 2018, 1:42:11 AM9/12/18
to
This seems to be the correct lineage.
l. Alan Ayot, of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, a known Keynes family descendant, Knight of the Shire, 1384, 1393, born c. 1340, died c.1416, married before March 1363 Agnes, widow of Thomas de la Haye (he died 1362).
2. Marion Ayot, born say 1375, married before 1416, William Purefoy. They had the manor of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire settled on them by her father before he died. In 1418 William Purefoy sued John Malory, of Fenny Neubolt, Warwickshire, Gent., and others in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a trespass [vi et armis] in Palyngton, Warwickshire. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/629, image 591f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no629/aCP40no629fronts/IMG_0591.htm).
3. William Purefoy, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, born c. 1405 (Sheriff in 1448-50), living 1465, married Margery Moton, born say 1410.
F.N. Craig was evidently not aware that William Purefoy was engaged in several legal actions with another Keynes family descendant, Eleanor Aylesbury, wife of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., regarding the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (a Keynes family property).
4. Philip Purefoy, Esq., born c. 1430-5, died 1468, married Isabel Brome.
This is approximately 90-95 years for three generations which is perfectly fine. The William Purefoy who was Sheriff in 1448-50 is clearly not the same person as Alan Ayot's son-in-law, William Purefoy, living in 1416-1418.
l. Alan Ayot, of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, a known Keynes family descendant, Knight of the Shire, 1384, 1393, born c. 1340, died c.1416, married before March 1363 Agnes, widow of Thomas de la Haye (he died 1362).
2. Marion Ayot, born say 1375, married before 1416, William Purefoy. They had the manor of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire settled on them by her father before he died. In 1418 William Purefoy sued John Malory, of Fenny Neubolt, Warwickshire, Gent., and others in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a trespass [vi et armis] in Palyngton, Warwickshire. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/629, image 591f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/H5/CP40no629/aCP40no629fronts/IMG_0591.htm).
3. William Purefoy, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, born c. 1405 (Sheriff in 1448-50), living 1465, married Margery Moton, born say 1410.
F.N. Craig was evidently not aware that William Purefoy was engaged in several legal actions with another Keynes family descendant, Eleanor Aylesbury, wife of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., regarding the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (a Keynes family property).
4. Philip Purefoy, Esq., born c. 1430-5, died 1468, married Isabel Brome.
This is approximately 90-95 years for three generations which is perfectly fine. The William Purefoy who was Sheriff in 1448-50 is clearly not the same person as Alan Ayot's son-in-law, William Purefoy, living in 1416-1418.
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 12, 2018, 2:19:03 AM9/12/18
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Dear Joe and Patrick ~
F.N. Craig's comments withstanding, the Keynes-Ayot-Purefoy descent I have set forth is covered in a well researched pedigree chart published in Baker, History & Antiquities of Northampton 1 (1822–30): 355–356. The chart may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE8598537
Mr. Baker correctly shows Alan Ayot, as a Keynes descendant and he indicates that Alan is ancestral to Philip Purefoy (a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas Dudley). He says Philip Purefoy sold his rights to the ancestral manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquette Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford.
Elsewhere in his text on page 353, he cites contemporary testimony dated 1446 that William Purefoy (father of Philip) should be the intended heir of the Keynes family should the senior line of the Keynes family fail. So there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the grandson and heir of Alan Ayot.
The only problem I see with Mr. Baker's chart is that he appears to insert an extra generation in the Purefoy family in between Alan Ayot and Philip Purefoy.
F.N. Craig's comments withstanding, the Keynes-Ayot-Purefoy descent I have set forth is covered in a well researched pedigree chart published in Baker, History & Antiquities of Northampton 1 (1822–30): 355–356. The chart may be viewed at the following weblink:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE8598537
Mr. Baker correctly shows Alan Ayot, as a Keynes descendant and he indicates that Alan is ancestral to Philip Purefoy (a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas Dudley). He says Philip Purefoy sold his rights to the ancestral manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquette Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford.
Elsewhere in his text on page 353, he cites contemporary testimony dated 1446 that William Purefoy (father of Philip) should be the intended heir of the Keynes family should the senior line of the Keynes family fail. So there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the grandson and heir of Alan Ayot.
The only problem I see with Mr. Baker's chart is that he appears to insert an extra generation in the Purefoy family in between Alan Ayot and Philip Purefoy.
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 12, 2018, 2:36:17 AM9/12/18
to
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 6:52:41 PM UTC-6, John Higgins wrote:
< This article should certainly be available to you at the FHL. I'm unaware
< of any subsequent discussion that would cast doubt on Craig's conclusion.
< Since you "have a high opinion of Mr. Craig's work", no doubt you'll agree
< with his conclusion.
< This article should certainly be available to you at the FHL. I'm unaware
< of any subsequent discussion that would cast doubt on Craig's conclusion.
< Since you "have a high opinion of Mr. Craig's work", no doubt you'll agree
Actually no I don't.
joe...@gmail.com
Sep 12, 2018, 7:20:07 AM9/12/18
to
However, I don't understand your statement that a William Purefoy b. say 1398 could "not possibly" be involved in a lawsuit in 1418 and also sheriff in 1450 (age 51/52). Not that this matters, because surely the William Purefoy of that lawsuit is an even older William Purefoy who married Margaret Chetwynd. Margaret's sister Philippa had married John Mallory.
Craig cites that in 1397 covenents were made between Alive, widow of William Chetwynd and William Purefoy, that William shall marry her daughter Margaret before September 14th of that year.
Clearly William Purefoy son of the above could not be born "say 1375" as you speculate if his parents were not married until 1397.
You could say that ... perhaps he was the son of an earlier (unknown) wife, not Margaret Chetwynd. But that would be a serious blow to the credibility to the very pedigrees that you are relying on to dispute F.N.Craig's correction.
While I do not think F.N. Craig has done a good job supporting his merging of two Williams who were documented as far back as the 1568 Visitation of Buckinghamshire, given the above, I think his chronological concerns are valid.
---JC
John Higgins
Sep 12, 2018, 8:17:50 PM9/12/18
to
On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 11:19:03 PM UTC-7, celticp...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear Joe and Patrick ~
>
> F.N. Craig's comments withstanding, the Keynes-Ayot-Purefoy descent I have set forth is covered in a well researched pedigree chart published in Baker, History & Antiquities of Northampton 1 (1822–30): 355–356. The chart may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE8598537
>
> Mr. Baker correctly shows Alan Ayot, as a Keynes descendant and he indicates that Alan is ancestral to Philip Purefoy (a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas Dudley). He says Philip Purefoy sold his rights to the ancestral manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquette Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford.
>
> Elsewhere in his text on page 353, he cites contemporary testimony dated 1446 that William Purefoy (father of Philip) should be the intended heir of the Keynes family should the senior line of the Keynes family fail. So there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the grandson and heir of Alan Ayot.
>
> Dear Joe and Patrick ~
>
> F.N. Craig's comments withstanding, the Keynes-Ayot-Purefoy descent I have set forth is covered in a well researched pedigree chart published in Baker, History & Antiquities of Northampton 1 (1822–30): 355–356. The chart may be viewed at the following weblink:
>
> https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE8598537
>
> Mr. Baker correctly shows Alan Ayot, as a Keynes descendant and he indicates that Alan is ancestral to Philip Purefoy (a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas Dudley). He says Philip Purefoy sold his rights to the ancestral manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquette Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford.
>
> Elsewhere in his text on page 353, he cites contemporary testimony dated 1446 that William Purefoy (father of Philip) should be the intended heir of the Keynes family should the senior line of the Keynes family fail. So there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the grandson and heir of Alan Ayot.
>
> Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
This is an inaccurate and incomplete representation of what Baker relates in his extensive narrative regarding the dispute over the manor of Dodford. Specifically, it reflects the position of only one of the two parties in the legal matter – namely, the party that ended up on the losing end.
In your earlier post, you stated that “F.N. Craig was evidently not aware that William Purefoy was engaged in several legal actions with another Keynes family descendant, Eleanor Aylesbury, wife of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., regarding the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (a Keynes family property).” In fact, Craig WAS aware of the legal action over Dodford involving Eleanor Aylesbury, as he mentions it on page 237 of his 1988 NEHGR article on the Purefoy and Ayot lines – and he cites Baker’s lengthy account of this legal action. But it wasn’t William Purefoy who was contending with Eleanor Aylesbury, because he had died in 1466.
Baker 1:352 makes it clear that the claim against Eleanor Aylesbury was brought instead by Sir Edward Widville, whose mother Jacquetta, Duchess of Bedford, had reputedly bought the Dodford property from Philip Purefoy, son of William. Baker 1:352 says specifically that Philip’s “title was grounded in a pretended descent from William Ayote youngest son of Lettice Ayote”. Baker describes in great detail the evidence provided by both parties – much of which was fraudulent, particularly on the part of Sir Edward Widville. One of the arguments presented by Sir Edward Widville was indeed the item which you describe as “contemporary testimony dated 1446 that William Purefoy (father of Philip) should be the intended heir of the Keynes family should the senior line of the Keynes family fail”. But you failed to note that Baker then describes the countering evidence that Eleanor Aylesbury presented, refuting this particular testimony.
In the end, as Baker relates, the two parties agreed to refer the matter to arbitration by King Edward IV. Despite being the brother-in-law of Sir Edward Widville, Edward IV in 1482 decided the matter in favor of Eleanor Aylesbury, Lady Stafford, who received the property of Dodford. One may well wonder what the actual basis was for the decision of Edward IV, but it’s clear that Baker at least was dubious about the purported Ayot descent of Philip Purefoy. After reading Baker more carefully, it's hard to say that "there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the grandson and heir of Alan Ayot." Accordingly, he’s certainly not a good source to use to argue against F.N. Craig’s final conclusion regarding the supposed Ayot descent of Gov. Thomas Dudley.
And incidentally Philip Purefoy is NOT "a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas Dudley". It's his brother John that's the Dudley ancestor - regardless of the Ayot descent.
celticp...@gmail.com
Sep 17, 2018, 3:56:10 PM9/17/18
to
My comments are interspersed below. DR
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 6:17:50 PM UTC-6, John Higgins wrote:
< This is an inaccurate and incomplete representation of what Baker relates in < his extensive narrative regarding the dispute over the manor of Dodford.
<
1. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding a trespass.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 271f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0271.htm).
2. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass and contempt.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 272f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0272.htm).
3. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Sta fford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass and contempt.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 886d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/bCP40no796dorses/IMG_0886.htm).
4. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 886d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/bCP40no796dorses/IMG_0886.htm).
5. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., sued William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in the Court of Common Pleas in Northamptonshire plea regarding entry de quibus. The record mentions Dodford and Farthingstone, Northamptonshire.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/807, image 622f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E4/CP40no807/aCP40no807fronts/IMG_0622.htm).
< Baker 1:352 makes it clear that the claim against Eleanor Aylesbury was
< brought instead by Sir Edward Widville, whose mother Jacquetta, Duchess of
< Bedford, had reputedly bought the Dodford property from Philip Purefoy, son < of William. Baker 1:352 says specifically that Philip’s “title was
< grounded in a pretended descent from William Ayote youngest son of Lettice
< Ayote”.
The descent of William Purefoy's son, Philip Purefoy, from the Keynes family was not pretended, although Baker may have thought so. Roskell's biography of Philip Purefoy's great-grandfather, Alan Ayot (died c.1416), contains the following statement:
"As an old man Ayot was to express his family’s expectations of inheriting the former Keynes estates (in particular, Dodford in Northamptonshire), should the line of his distant kinsmen the Cressys ever chance to fail; but such hopes were not to be fulfilled in his lifetime." END OF QUOTE
Roskell's biography of Alan Ayot can be found at the following weblink:
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/ayot-alan-1416
As stated by Baker (and by me), Philip Purefoy (died 1468) [the eventual heir to Alan Ayot's claims] sold his rights in the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquet Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford. In 1481 King Edward IV awarded the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (the chief Keynes family property) to dame Eleanor Stafford and her son, Thomas, who in turn were ordered to pay £200, plus £50 charges, to Edward Wydeville, Knt. (son of Duchess Jacquet), to satisfy his claim to the said manor. If Philip Purefoy's rights in Dodford were worthless as you suggest, the king would not have ordered Eleanor Stafford to pay £200 to extinguish those rights. £200 is a whole lot of nothing.
< It’s clear that Baker at least was dubious about the purported Ayot descent
< And incidentally Philip Purefoy is NOT "a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas
< Dudley". It's his brother John that's the Dudley ancestor - regardless of
< the Ayot descent.
When I was preparing my post, I inadvertedly relied on VCH Buckingham 4 (1927): 224 which implies that Gov. Dudley's ancestor, Nicholas Purefoy [died 1547], was the son and heir of Philip Purefoy [died 1468]. While it is true to Philip Purefoy [died 1468] was succeeded in turn by his sons, John and Nicholas, the Nicholas who eventually came into the ownership (and heirship) of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire was Philip Purefoy's nephew, Nicholas Purefoy [died 1547], of Daventry, Warwickshire, which Nicholas was a minor in 1491. The correct descent is found in Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1485–1494 (1914): 346, which can be found at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026362;view=1up;seq=358
The correct placement of Gov. Thomas Dudley's ancestor, Nicholas Purefoy, Esq. [died 1547] in the Purefoy family tree can also be found in a visitation pedigree of the Purefoye family published in Benolte and Cooke, Visitations of Kent 1530–1, 1574 & 1592 2 (H.S.P. 75) (1924): 107–108 (Purefoye ped.). This source can be viewed at the following weblink:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE927666
I might add that Nicholas Purefoy, Esq. [died 1547] is correctly placed as nephew to Philip Purefoy, Esq. [died 1468], in my book, Royal Ancestry (5 volume set) published in 2013.
On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 6:17:50 PM UTC-6, John Higgins wrote:
< This is an inaccurate and incomplete representation of what Baker relates in < his extensive narrative regarding the dispute over the manor of Dodford.
<
< In your earlier post, you stated that “F.N. Craig was evidently not aware
< that William Purefoy was engaged in several legal actions with another
< Keynes family descendant, Eleanor Aylesbury, wife of Humphrey Stafford,
< Knt., regarding the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (a Keynes family
< property).” In fact, Craig WAS aware of the legal action over Dodford
< involving Eleanor Aylesbury, as he mentions it on page 237 of his 1988 NEHGR < article on the Purefoy and Ayot lines – and he cites Baker’s lengthy account < of this legal action. But it wasn’t William Purefoy who was contending with < Eleanor Aylesbury, because he had died in 1466.
My statement is correct. Mr. Craig did not know about the following numerous legal actions between two known Keynes family descendants, William Purefoy, Esq., and Eleanor Aylesbury, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., all of which took place in 1460. William Purefoy, Esq., died in 1466. Thus he was very much the person involved in these Common Pleas lawsuits.
< that William Purefoy was engaged in several legal actions with another
< Keynes family descendant, Eleanor Aylesbury, wife of Humphrey Stafford,
< Knt., regarding the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (a Keynes family
< property).” In fact, Craig WAS aware of the legal action over Dodford
< involving Eleanor Aylesbury, as he mentions it on page 237 of his 1988 NEHGR < article on the Purefoy and Ayot lines – and he cites Baker’s lengthy account < of this legal action. But it wasn’t William Purefoy who was contending with < Eleanor Aylesbury, because he had died in 1466.
1. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding a trespass.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 271f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0271.htm).
2. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass and contempt.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 272f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/aCP40no796fronts/IMG_0272.htm).
3. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Sta fford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass and contempt.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 886d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/bCP40no796dorses/IMG_0886.htm).
4. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., versus William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in a Northamptonshire plea regarding trespass.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/796, image 886d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/H6/CP40no796/bCP40no796dorses/IMG_0886.htm).
5. In 1460 Eleanor Stafford, widow of Humphrey Stafford, Knt., sued William Purefey, Esq., of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire, in the Court of Common Pleas in Northamptonshire plea regarding entry de quibus. The record mentions Dodford and Farthingstone, Northamptonshire.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/807, image 622f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E4/CP40no807/aCP40no807fronts/IMG_0622.htm).
< Baker 1:352 makes it clear that the claim against Eleanor Aylesbury was
< brought instead by Sir Edward Widville, whose mother Jacquetta, Duchess of
< Bedford, had reputedly bought the Dodford property from Philip Purefoy, son < of William. Baker 1:352 says specifically that Philip’s “title was
< grounded in a pretended descent from William Ayote youngest son of Lettice
< Ayote”.
"As an old man Ayot was to express his family’s expectations of inheriting the former Keynes estates (in particular, Dodford in Northamptonshire), should the line of his distant kinsmen the Cressys ever chance to fail; but such hopes were not to be fulfilled in his lifetime." END OF QUOTE
Roskell's biography of Alan Ayot can be found at the following weblink:
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1386-1421/member/ayot-alan-1416
As stated by Baker (and by me), Philip Purefoy (died 1468) [the eventual heir to Alan Ayot's claims] sold his rights in the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire to Jacquet Wydeville, Duchess of Bedford. In 1481 King Edward IV awarded the manor of Dodford, Northamptonshire (the chief Keynes family property) to dame Eleanor Stafford and her son, Thomas, who in turn were ordered to pay £200, plus £50 charges, to Edward Wydeville, Knt. (son of Duchess Jacquet), to satisfy his claim to the said manor. If Philip Purefoy's rights in Dodford were worthless as you suggest, the king would not have ordered Eleanor Stafford to pay £200 to extinguish those rights. £200 is a whole lot of nothing.
< It’s clear that Baker at least was dubious about the purported Ayot descent
< of Philip Purefoy. After reading Baker more carefully, it's hard to say
< that "there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the
< grandson and heir of Alan Ayot."
My statement above was made with respect to Baker and other evidence such as the legal actions cited above and the passage of Alan Ayot's manor of Shalstone, Buckinghamshire to William Purefoy (died 1466). Had William Ayot, Esq., not been Alan Ayot's grandson, then surely it would not have been claimed in 1445-6 that William Purefoy was the lawful heir apparent to the Keynes family estates.
< that "there can be no question that William Purefoy living in 1446 was the
< grandson and heir of Alan Ayot."
< And incidentally Philip Purefoy is NOT "a known ancestor of Gov. Thomas
< Dudley". It's his brother John that's the Dudley ancestor - regardless of
< the Ayot descent.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026362;view=1up;seq=358
The correct placement of Gov. Thomas Dudley's ancestor, Nicholas Purefoy, Esq. [died 1547] in the Purefoy family tree can also be found in a visitation pedigree of the Purefoye family published in Benolte and Cooke, Visitations of Kent 1530–1, 1574 & 1592 2 (H.S.P. 75) (1924): 107–108 (Purefoye ped.). This source can be viewed at the following weblink:
https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE927666
I might add that Nicholas Purefoy, Esq. [died 1547] is correctly placed as nephew to Philip Purefoy, Esq. [died 1468], in my book, Royal Ancestry (5 volume set) published in 2013.
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