Iwardby Family
Douglas Richardson
In response to your Iwardby query below, you may wish to consult the
book, Fitznells Cartulary, edited by C.A.F. Meekings and Philip
Shearman, published in 1968 as Surrey Record Society, Vol. 26. On
pages cx-cxxiv of that book is a good account of the Iwardby family.
According to Meekings and Shearman, Sir John Iwardby, of Fitznells,
Surrey (died 1525), married (1st) Katherine Neville (died prior to
1476); (2nd) before 1485 Sanche Carewe, daughter and co-heiress of
Nicholas Carew, of Carshalton, Surrey; and (3rd) Jane, daughter of
John Agmondesham, of Leatherhead. Sir John Iwardby was the father of
one son, John, by his 1st marriage, who died in infancy; and, by his
2nd marriage, he had one daughter, Jane (wife of John St. John and
Nicholas Saunder). Jane Iwardby inherited her father's manor at
Fitznells.
If correctly set forth, Jane (Iwardby) (St. John) Saunder would not
possess a Neville descent. However, she would have a valid descent
from King Henry II through her paternal grandmother, Margaret Fiennes,
wife of Nicholas Carew, Esq., of Beddington, Surrey. Can you tell me
what colonists descend from Jane (Iwardby) (St. John) Saunder?
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
>I have been rummaging in the archives trying to solve some identity
problems
>among the Iwardby family which have apparently plagued other
researchers to
>this list.
>
>It is the ancestry of Jane Iwardby, wife of John St. John (d. 1512)
of
>Lydiard Tregoze, Wilts. As she brought Great Purley, Berks to the St.
John
>Family, it would seem that she was most likely a daughter of John
Iwardby
>(d. 1525) of Great Purley and his wife Sanchia Carew. Sanchia was
daughter
>of Nicholas Carew of Beddington, Nutfield and Carshalton, Surrey,
Sulham,
>Berks and Delamers, Hertfordshire and Margaret Langford.
>
>Where the pedigree becomes interesting is that this John Iwardby
appears to
>be the son of John Iwardby and Katherine Neville, daughter of Edward
Neville
>(d. 1476), Lord Bergavenny by his first wife Elizabeth Beauchamp.
Faris
>(PA2) only mentions two sons by Bergavenny's first marriage. BP
(1999) lists
>two daughters Alice (m. Sir Thomas Grey) and Katherine (m. _____
Iwardby).
>
>We know that John Iwardby (d. 1430) married Katherine Missenden of
Great
>Missenden, Bucks, daughter of Bernard Missenden (d. 1420) and his
wife
>Isabel Frome of Woodlands, Dorset (RD).
>
>Their son Nicholas (d. 1462) of Great Missenden was husband of
Elizabeth
>Hampden (d. 1466) of Great Hampden Bucks, daughter of Sir John
Hampden (d.
>1458) and Elizabeth Whalesborough of Whalesborough, Cornwall.
>
>Their son John (d. 22 Aug 1485, ? Battle of Bosworth)) of Quainton
Bucks (as
>shown by Ronny Bodine) was married to Joane Brudenell of Stoke
Mandeville,
>daughter of Edmund Brudenell and Philippa Englefield of Englefield,
Bucks.
>
>A reconstruction of the Great Purley Iwardby family suggests that
John
>Iwardby and Katherine Missenden also had a son named John who married
Joan
>Annesley. Their son John married Katherine Neville and the next John
married
>Sanchia Carew.
>
>Tim Powys-Lybbe provides some compelling evidence for acceptance of
this
>reconstruction from the book _The Early History of Mapledurham_
(Oxford
>Record Society, 1925) by Rev. A. H. Cooke, MA, Sc. D., dean, fellow
and
>tutor of King's College, Cambridge. Most especially interesting are
the
>following from p. 27 (I think this is the correct page of citation):
>
>"John Iwardeby th'elder and Jane his wife kneeling opposite each
other with
>scrolls containing their names."
>
>The scrolls were reported to say:
>
>"Ihu my maker Bring me to Bliss John Iwardeby th'elder and on hers
"Mary
>moder I pray you help me Jane daughter of Hugh Ansley Knight."
>
>And continuing:
>
>"In the other compartment, John Iwardby the younger and Katherine his
wife,
>both kneeling, right hands clasped, left hands uplifted; from his
mouth a
>scroll (broken and defaced in 1644) with the words 'God have mercy on
me
>John the sone of John and Jane Iwardbye'; on her scroll, 'Helpe Mary
moder
>most gracious lady me Katyn daughter of Edward Lord Bergavenny."
>
>Further there was an inscription:
>
>"John Iwardby and Katyn his wife specially you pray Say as oft as ye
see
>this window ij De profundis for him or on pater noster and on ave for
them
>and for Edward [Ld Bergavenny], Elizabeth [Despenser], John [Iwardby]
and
>Jane [nee Annesley, widow of Lynde] their fathers and moders and for
ye
>soule of John the which by the wall lieth the son of the said John
and
>Katherine on whom Jusu have mercy."
>
>{My note: I think this should be Beauchamp rather than Despenser,
although
>Elizabeth Beauchamp's mother was a Despenser.)
>
>If this reconstruction were to hold, an improved RD from Edward III
would be
>realized for a number of St. John descendants. I appreciate all
comments
>even disproof.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Henry Sutliff
Kevan L. Barton
I'll have to look at my notes, but this makes good sense. I've been trying
to figure out how to stack the family as it appeared we had one too many
generations. The Neville (1st wife) and Carew (2nd) hits the nail on the
head as it was here that the confusion was sitting. I'll try to provide
more later when I've the time.
Thank you for the information. Mind you, you've just snipped one of my
lines. Ho hum!
Cheers,
Kevan
Tim Powys-Lybbe
royala...@msn.com (Douglas Richardson) wrote:
> Dear Hap ~
>
> In response to your Iwardby query below, you may wish to consult the
> book, Fitznells Cartulary, edited by C.A.F. Meekings and Philip
> Shearman, published in 1968 as Surrey Record Society, Vol. 26. On
> pages cx-cxxiv of that book is a good account of the Iwardby family.
>
> According to Meekings and Shearman, Sir John Iwardby, of Fitznells,
> Surrey (died 1525), married (1st) Katherine Neville (died prior to
> 1476); (2nd) before 1485 Sanche Carewe, daughter and co-heiress of
> Nicholas Carew, of Carshalton, Surrey; and (3rd) Jane, daughter of
> John Agmondesham, of Leatherhead. Sir John Iwardby was the father of
> one son, John, by his 1st marriage, who died in infancy; and, by his
> 2nd marriage, he had one daughter, Jane (wife of John St. John and
> Nicholas Saunder). Jane Iwardby inherited her father's manor at
> Fitznells.
Very interesting. We have a conflict between the descent in the
Fitznells Cartulary and the descent recorded in the window of
Mapledurham church, Oxon. Perhaps the trouble is that there were so
many John Iwardbys? I have numbered the from 1 to 4 for later discussion:
(Set your machines to a fixed font, everyone!)
Fitznells Mapledurham
========= ===========
N.A. John (1) Iwardby,
Lord of Quainton, Bucks
m. Katherine Missenden
heir of Bernard de Missenden
|
|
N.A. John (2) Iwardby, 2nd son
jure uxor, lord of Mapledurham Gurmey
d. 1470, bur. Mapledurham church
m. c. 1442 Joan Annesley
widow of John Lynde
lord of Mapledurham Gurney
|
|
John (3) Iwardby, 1st son
prob. bur. Mapledurham church
m. "Katyn" Nevill
Sir John Iwardby, d. 1525 |
m.(1) Kath. Neville ______|___________
| | |
John, d. inf. John, d. inf. John (4) = Saunchia
m. (2) Sanche Carew d.1525 | Carew
| |
| |
Jane Iwardby Jane Iwardby
m. (1) John St John (as Fitznells)
(2) Nicholas Saunder
The question seems to be whether the Fitznells Sir John Iwardby is
identifiable with John (3) Iwardby of Mapledurham. John (3)'s parents
were married around 1442 so John (3) might have been born around
1444-1450, making him around 75 at death.
Sanchia Carew gets a mention in a note by Charles Evans in one of the
Reports (probably no 15 of 1982 but I do not have this noted on my copy
of the relevant page...) of the Friends of Lydiard Tregoz. He writes,
somewhat ambiguously:
"Sanchia Carew was the daughter and coheiress of Nicholas Carew
(1426-1466), of Carshalton and Purley, by Margaret Langford, whose first
husband he was. She [which she? Margaret? Or Sanchia?] was baptised at
Bradfield, Berkshire, and died in 1501 (will PCC 15 Blamir). Her second
husband was John Carent, of Hampshire (died 1483, brass), whose second
wife she was; and her third husband was William Twynyhoo (died 1497),
whose second wife she was. Margaret Langford [is this who Evans was
talking of?] was the daughter of Edward Langford (1417-1474), of
Bradfield, Customer of Southampton, MP for Berkshire 1449-1459; by
Sanchia Blount. Both of them were buried at St Francis
Chapel, Greyfriars, Reading, Berks."
This gives Sanchia's birth at anywhere from around 1456, when her father
was 20, to 1466, when he died. Sanchia may, or may not, be the one who
died in 1501.
Could Sanchia have married first John (3) Iwardby, as his second
husband? Possibly, but the question is when.
Sanchia's daughter Joan married first John St John (d. 1512) and gave
birth to another John St John in c. 1505; the latter John held the
Lydiard Tregoze estate and died in 1576 (all from other Reports of the
Friends of Lydiard Tregoze), So, Joan, daughter of Sanchia, married in
1504 or earlier and if she was then 15, she was born in 1489; if she was
then 20, she was born in 1484. Say that Joan was born anywhere between
1482 and 1490.
This gives a possible marriage date of Sanchia to John (3) as anywhere
from 1480 onwards. Though it could have been earlier if Joan was a late
child. In 1480 Sanchia would have been anything from 14 to 24 years
old and her husband, if John (3), would have been 30 to 36.
These dates would also allow Sanchia to have married John (4).
Reverting to the reported memorials in Mapledurham church, the
interesting thing is that there is a clear reference to an infant son to
John and Katherine. But the final words quoted [see below] do not (in
fact) say "the son" but merely "son", allowing for one or more such
sons.
The odd thing is that the Fitznells Cartulary has the husband of
Katherine Neville as _Sir_ John and the memorial to this couple in
Mapledurham church does not do this nor does it add "knight" after his
name as it does for another, "Hugh Ansley Knight", in the same north
chancel window.
> If correctly set forth, Jane (Iwardby) (St. John) Saunder would not
> possess a Neville descent.
I honestly can say that at the moment it seems a fifty-fifty bet that
Sanchia married John (3) Iwardby or John (4) Iwardby. Are there any
more details in the Fitznells cartulary?
[Henry Sutcliffe wrote:]
Apologies if the error was mine but the pages are 126-9 of this book.
> > "John Iwardeby th'elder and Jane his wife kneeling opposite each other
> > with scrolls containing their names."
> >
> > The scrolls were reported to say:
Reported by Sir Richard St George, then Norroy King of Arms, who visited
the church in 1615 and whose records are in the Rawlinson Collection of
the Bodleian Library, Oxford (Rawlinson MSS B. 103) and by Richard
Symonds, who visited the church in 1644 (in the British Library,
Harleian MS 965).
> > "Ihu my maker Bring me to Bliss John Iwardeby th'elder and on hers
> > "Mary moder I pray you help me Jane daughter of Hugh Ansley Knight."
> >
> > And continuing:
> >
> > "In the other compartment, John Iwardby the younger and Katherine his
> > wife, both kneeling, right hands clasped, left hands uplifted; from
> > his mouth a scroll (broken and defaced in 1644) with the words 'God have
> > mercy on me John the sone of John and Jane Iwardbye'; on her scroll,
> > 'Helpe Mary moder most gracious lady me Katyn daughter of Edward Lord
> > Bergavenny."
The book then has:
"According to St George, between the two figures was an infant, lying
flat, at the height of their arms, from its mouth proceeded a scroll
with the words 'God have mercy on me John the son of John the son of
John'."
This has to be the the son of John and Katherine who died an infant.
> >
> > Further there was an inscription:
> >
> > "John Iwardby and Katyn his wife specially you pray Say as oft as ye
> > see this window ij De profundis for him or on pater noster and on ave
> > for them and for Edward [Ld Bergavenny], Elizabeth [Despenser], John
> > [Iwardby] and Jane [nee Annesley, widow of Lynde] their fathers and
> > moders and for ye soule of John the which by the wall lieth the son of
> > the said John and Katherine on whom Jesu have mercy."
<small snip>
The words in the book (from Symonds) are actually:
"and for ye sowle of John the which by the wall lieth son of the said
John and Katherine on whom Jesu have mercy."
Notice that this is no longer "the son", but merely "son".
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a patchwork of bygones: http://powys.org
Kay Allen AG
Owsley and the two Sander bros. come from different branches of the
Saunder family.
K
Douglas Richardson
This lady's name was Sanche Carew, not Sanchia, as per the records
from the early Chancery Proceedings. Ditto Sanche Willoughby, wife of
John Strelley, Esq.
C 1/326/56 John Iwarby, knight, and Saynche, his wife, Edward, son of
Elizabeth Twynyho, and Anne Tropnell, widow. v. Richard Carru, knight,
son of James Carru.: The manor of Beddington and the advowson of the
portionary there, the manors of Maytham, Bandon, and Norbury, and
lands and rents in Croydon, Streatham, Coulsdon, Bristow, Horne, and
Horley, late of Nicholas Carru, grandfather of the said Saynche,
Elizabeth, Anne, and Richard.
C 146/3436 Demise by Sanche, late the wife of John Strelley, esquire,
to SImon Digby, esquire, of the manor of Trowell and all lands therein
during the nonage of John Strelley, son and heir to her siad husband,
'the remainder thereof after the full age of the said John the son to
the same John Strelley the son for term of forty years; which manor
was assigned to her as parcel of her dower by Sir Henry Willughby, Sir
Gervas Clyfton, knights, and other co-feoffees of her husband
according to the award of Sir Thomas Lovell: [Notts. 4 May, 18 Henry
VII.
C 1/113/76 John Akent, alias Snoth, and Sanche, his wife. v. The
sheriffs of London: Action of debt by -- Benson, of London, skinner,
for furs of `blak shankes' etc. supplied. Corpus cum causa.: London.
C 1/859/6-8 John Markham, knight, and Anne, his wife, daughter of John
Strelley, esquire, deceased, and of Sanche, his wife and executrix. v.
Simon and Roland, sons and executors of John Digby, knight, second
husband of the said Sanche.: Legacy of the said John Strelley, who
died possessed of the manors of Strelley, Radcliffe-on-Trent,
Chilwell, Wheatley, Oxton, Shipley, and North and South Leverton.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
E-mail: royala...@msn.com
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote in message news:<bffe7c6...@southfrm.demon.co.uk>...
> I honestly can say that at the moment it seems a fifty-fifty bet that
Allen John Mallory
mentioned below as well as the names of her children by Sir John Marhkam.
Husbands of said children would be helpful. Date of marriage to Sir John
would be wonderful assistance.
--
----------------------------snip---------------------------------
: C 1/859/6-8 John Markham, knight, and Anne, his wife, daughter of John
:
Sutliff
returned from the Canadian Rockies and have not even unpacked. So this must
be rather off the cuff rather than proper documentation.
The placement of three wives for John Iwardby would certainly seem to make
sense to me. As Joan Iwardby, wife of Sir John St. John of Lydiard Tregoze
(1473-1512) was ancestor to Sir Richard St. George (1550-1635), Clarenceux
King of Arms, it would seem probable that St. George would have noted his
descent from Lord Bergavenny had it been there as this would have given him
a descent from Edward III which I have not found elsewhere in his ancestry.
I was working on this a bit before I left two weeks or so ago and can
confirm that one of the John Iwardbys was indeed married to Jane
Agmondesham. I think her monumental brass may have been mentioned in one of
the VCH Surrey articles, but I believe only Katherine Neville is buried with
John Iwardby at Mapledurham. The only thing which throws some doubt is I
believe a mention in the Cooke book that John and Katherine were the parents
of the John of Ewell, Surrey. Will check that out when I can.
I have the PRO marriage settlement document for Katherine Neville and John
Iwardby. It is dated 5 September 1467, so a slight adjustment of her death
date seems needed.
I would also note that VCH Surrey spells the name Senchia, but as
Sancha/Sanche/Sanchia/Senchia was granddaughter Sancha Blount who was in
turn granddaughter of Sancha de Ayala, it would seem that is the source of
the name, whatever the form used.
The mention of Willoughby below brings about another question of identity.
Nicholas Carew d. 17 October 1390 was married to Lucy Willoughby by whom she
had children Nicholas, Margaret and Lucy. She had been previously married to
Thomas Huscarle (circa 1343) d. bef. 1352 of Purley Magna by whom she had
Thomas and Joanna. Lucy is always called daughter of Sir Richard Willoughby
in sources, but he is not further identified.
However, the manor of Beddington was conveyed in 1363 by Elizabeth, widow of
Sir Richard Willoughby to Nicholas Carew, husband of Lucy. It had been
previously licensed by Richard and Elizabeth to Nicholas Carew for life in
1352 . Beddington appears to have been purchased by the Willoughbys in the
1340's. It may be too convenient a date, but Chief Justice Richard
Willoughby of Wollaton, Notts. died in 1362, leaving a widow Elizabeth. His
first wife was Isabel de Morteyn d. 1332. His second wife was Joan de
Charron d. 1342 and his third wife was Elizabeth de Valletort (see Payling
for more on the Willoughbys), daughter of Hugh de Valletort of North Tawton,
Devonshire and his wife Lucia le Bret, widow of Richard de Tremenet and
Richard Champernoun of Modbury. That Lucy could not be daughter of Elizabeth
(despite the convenience of her mother's name) is obvious by the dates of
Lucy Willoughby's first marriage and the birth of her two children by
Huscarle. However, does anyone have an opinion on whether Lucy might be
daughter of Richard and either of his two previous wives? Does anyone know
of a second Sir Richard Willoughby who died in 1362? There are no Surrey
lands mentioned in the IPM of the Chief Justice, but no IPM for another
Richard Willoughby either.
Tim, the dates given in your post suggest to me that it was Margaret
Langford, daughter of Edward Langford of Bradfield and his wife Sancha
Blount who had the subsequent marriages. We know that Nicholas Carew of
Beddington was about 30 when he died in 1466, so two additional marriages
for Margaret are possible. Also she would likely have been less than her
husband's age which would have also made her an age eligible for remarriage.
Just my thoughts.
Since we are throwing this stuff out for opinions. Does anyone have an
identity of the Sir Hugh Annesley, father of Joan Annesley d. 1478, and
mother of the John Iwardby who married Katherine Neville.
My interest in this is via a St. George great-grandmother rather than a
gateway immigrant.
HS.
"Douglas Richardson" <royala...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:5cf47a19.02081...@posting.google.com...
> Dear Tim ~
>
> This lady's name was Sanche Carew, not Sanchia, as per the records
> from the early Chancery Proceedings. Ditto Sanche Willoughby, wife of
> John Strelley, Esq.
>
> C 1/326/56 John Iwarby, knight, and Saynche, his wife, Edward, son of
> Elizabeth Twynyho, and Anne Tropnell, widow. v. Richard Carru, knight,
> son of James Carru.: The manor of Beddington and the advowson of the
> portionary there, the manors of Maytham, Bandon, and Norbury, and
> lands and rents in Croydon, Streatham, Coulsdon, Bristow, Horne, and
> Horley, late of Nicholas Carru, grandfather of the said Saynche,
> Elizabeth, Anne, and Richard.
>
> C 146/3436 Demise by Sanche, late the wife of John Strelley, esquire,
> to SImon Digby, esquire, of the manor of Trowell and all lands therein
> during the nonage of John Strelley, son and heir to her siad husband,
> 'the remainder thereof after the full age of the said John the son to
> the same John Strelley the son for term of forty years; which manor
> was assigned to her as parcel of her dower by Sir Henry Willughby, Sir
> Gervas Clyfton, knights, and other co-feoffees of her husband
> according to the award of Sir Thomas Lovell: [Notts. 4 May, 18 Henry
> VII.
>
<snip>
Sutliff
present) of 1501 which would seem to confirm that she was the one married to
Carent and Twynhoo.
HS.
"Sutliff" <ss...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%jT79.11432$LO1.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Tim Powys-Lybbe
Kay Allen AG <all...@pacbell.net> wrote:
> As far as I know, there are no Saunder descendants from this branch. John
> Owsley and the two Sander bros. come from different branches of the
> Saunder family.
From a study of this era of the Saunder family "The Manor of Batailles
and the Family of Saunder in Ewell during the 16th and 17th centuries"
by Micheal L Walker and published in 1956 also by the Surrey
Archaeological Society, this Nicholas Saunder was the eldest son and he
and Joan Iwardby had three daughters (Pedigree I, at the end of the
article on pp. 76-100):
Ursula, mar. ... Hungerford.
Joan, mar. Richard Bray (d. 1559) of Ewell. Had issue.
Joyce, mar. ... Woodcock.
Regrettably no more information on these is given.
>
> K
>
> Douglas Richardson wrote:
>
> > Dear Hap ~
> >
> > In response to your Iwardby query below, you may wish to consult the
> > book, Fitznells Cartulary, edited by C.A.F. Meekings and Philip
> > Shearman, published in 1968 as Surrey Record Society, Vol. 26. On
> > pages cx-cxxiv of that book is a good account of the Iwardby family.
> >
> > According to Meekings and Shearman, Sir John Iwardby, of Fitznells,
> > Surrey (died 1525), married (1st) Katherine Neville (died prior to
> > 1476); (2nd) before 1485 Sanche Carewe, daughter and co-heiress of
> > Nicholas Carew, of Carshalton, Surrey; and (3rd) Jane, daughter of
> > John Agmondesham, of Leatherhead. Sir John Iwardby was the father of
> > one son, John, by his 1st marriage, who died in infancy; and, by his
> > 2nd marriage, he had one daughter, Jane (wife of John St. John and
> > Nicholas Saunder). Jane Iwardby inherited her father's manor at
> > Fitznells.
> >
> > If correctly set forth, Jane (Iwardby) (St. John) Saunder would not
> > possess a Neville descent. However, she would have a valid descent
> > from King Henry II through her paternal grandmother, Margaret Fiennes,
> > wife of Nicholas Carew, Esq., of Beddington, Surrey. Can you tell me
> > what colonists descend from Jane (Iwardby) (St. John) Saunder?
> >
> > Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
> >
> > E-mail: royala...@msn.com
> >
<snip>
Sutliff
discussion. One of the pleas I have spells the name Sainche, so I would
suggest that Tim's choice of Sanchia is as good as any and should not be
concluded or corrected as wrong. As we know the names were not standardized
nor their spellings or why would see so many variants for the same persons
be seen in various documents?
HS
"Sutliff" <ss...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:kpT79.11445$LO1.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Tim Powys-Lybbe
"Sutliff" <ss...@earthlink.net> wrote:
<snip>
> Since we are throwing this stuff out for opinions. Does anyone have an
> identity of the Sir Hugh Annesley, father of Joan Annesley d. 1478, and
> mother of the John Iwardby who married Katherine Neville.
>
> My interest in this is via a St. George great-grandmother rather than a
> gateway immigrant.
Reverting to Cooke's "Early History of Mapledurham" he writes first, p.
43, that Sir Hugh Annesley was of Riddington, Notts and then adds in a
note:
"The Annesleys of Maidenhead were a Berkshire family, bearing the same
arms as are now in the east window of Mapledurham Church, paly of six,
argent and azure, a bend gules, charged with a mullet argent. Their
pedigree is entered in the Heralds' Visitations of 1623 and 1665 (W.
Berry, County Genealogies, Berks, etc, 1837). Francis Annesley of
Bletchington, Oxon., was M.P. for Reading, for six consecutive
Parliaments, besides being Master of Downing Coll. Cambridge (Coates,
History of Reading, Appendix)."
He does not make it clear whether there is any connection of the
Annesleys of Maidenhead to those of Riddington, Notts. Possibly he
thinks that the former were descendants of the latter.
Anyhow from Coates' "History of Reading" (which I have beside me),
Francis Annesley was MP from 1774 to 1796, a tad outside our frame of
interest.
Kevan L. Barton
Great data! You've really pulled together some wonderful material since the
last time the Iwardby family was discussed. I do not have anything on the
Annesley family beyond what you mentioned (my roadblock as well), however,
if anyone has data on the Langfords (Margarget Langford married Nicholas
Carew IV, 1436-1466)connected to this discussion, I'd certainly appreciate
seeing it.
Cheers,
Kevan
Sutliff
ancestors of Richard St. George's wife Elizabeth St. John and their five
sons and one daughter.
HS.
"Sutliff" <ss...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%jT79.11432$LO1.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Sutliff
descended from Blount, Gresley, Beverely, Buxhall, Beche and apparently
Zouche.
VCH Berks IV:7-8 shows that the wife of Sir Philip de la Beche of La Beche,
Berks. d. 1335-38 bore the arms of the Zouche family, but does not identify
the placement of Joan de la Zouche.
HS.
""Kevan L. Barton"" <kevan...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:ECELJLLLKGANJMKHGAID...@adelphia.net...
Douglas Richardson
> Sorry for yet another post, but I thought it was necessary to the
> discussion. One of the pleas I have spells the name Sainche, so I would
> suggest that Tim's choice of Sanchia is as good as any and should not be
> concluded or corrected as wrong. As we know the names were not standardized
> nor their spellings or why would see so many variants for the same persons
> be seen in various documents?
>
> HS
Dear HS ~
Sanche is the English form of the Spanish name, Sanchia. The women
under discussion in this thread were English, not Spanish. They lived
and died in England. The name Sanchia sounds "romantic." However,
Sanche appears to be the correct form to use for these ladies, not
Sanchia. Ditto Mary, for Maria, Isabel for Isabella, Blanche for
Blanca, Joan for Juana, etc.
DR
Donny Wright
Under Ewell, Surrey Epsom and Ewell History Explorer https://eehe.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ManningBray-Ewell.pdf
"The Chapel here .spoken of was erected by Richard Bray, in 21 Hen. VIII. Aa 1529, as
appears from an inscription formerly to be seen on the Tomb under which he was buried on the
North side of it p. The Tomb is still remaining; and under it, when part of tbe Church fell
in, about the middle of the 17th century, were found the remains of two bodies', which were
undoubtedly those of the said Richard, who died 24 Aug. 1559, and Joan or Jane his wife,
daughter of Nicholas Sanders of this place.
[* Aubrey says there was a grave stone, plundered of its brass, only there remained 3 boys;
and on a plate 3 hand-saws empaling a chevron Charged with Erm. between :3 bulls heads cabossed,
This must have been meant for Richard Bray above named, and Jane daughter of Nicholas
Sanders. In Vincent's visitation of Surrey at the Heralds College, p. 24-7, this match is mentioned;
and Richard is said to have died in 1559. What Aubrey calls hand-saws were probably the
upper part of the hemp-breaker borne as a Crest by the Brays of Shere. The arms of Sanders
are nearly as he describes them, being Sa. a chevron Erm charged with a rose Gu. between
3 bulls heads cabossed Ar.
A MS. collection of church notes by Mr. Steele in Mr. Gough's possession, mentions the fol-
lowing as being on a little stone, •• Hic jace~ Henrici Sander vii filior' Henna Sander." • ]
"charged with a rose Gu. between 3 bulls heads cabossed Ar. clearly references the Iwardby Neville marriage. Note the rose which is the Abergavenny charge from Edward Neville for the 7th son of Ralph Neville and Joan Beaufort. The bulls heads for the crest of Nevill from the Bulmer inheritance of Brancepeth. On the subject of pedantics the Nevills of Abergavenny do not have a final 'e' to the name and are called 'Abergenny' formerly 'Bergenny' but not spelt as such. Don Macer-Wright
Donny Wright
Donny Wright
arms