Eve of Leinster and Radnaillt of Dublin
Stewart Baldwin
On 27 July 1996, I posted the following item to this newsgroup. Since
recent questions make this material relevant again and it has been
some time since it was posted (and since I saw no objections to my
suggestion that I repost it), I am reposting the item. Except for a
couple of typographical errors, and some miscalculated ancestor
numbers, which have been corrected, this is the same as the item which
appeared on 27 July 1996. When I first posted this, I forgot to
mention that the numerous diacritical marks have been omitted on this
chart, due to the usual difficulty of transmitting special characters
over the internet.
Stewart Baldwin
--------------------------------------
In response to recent queries about Eve of Leinster, wife of
Richard Strongbow, earl of Pembroke, I am posting her
ancestry for ten generations, as complete as I currently
have it. Eve of Leinster is an important "Gateway
Ancestor", as descent from her is probably the best way for
someone of English descent to get a large number of early
Irish lines. Another important Gateway Ancestor for Ireland
is Radnailt of Dublin, who is discussed after Eve's table.
EVE of LEINSTER
The first reasonable attempt to trace Eve's complete
ancestry, of which I am aware, was the article "The Ancestry
of Eve of Leinster," by Professor David Kelley, in "The
Genealogist" vol. 1 pp. 4-27. (Turton's earlier attempt is
far too unreliable to take seriously.) With the exception
of Sadb (#25) and her ancestors, whom Kelley apparently
overlooked, there is not much difference between my chart
and the one given by Professor Kelley (except for format),
as these generations belong to a period which is reasonably
well documented. For the earlier period, however, there are
considerable differences of opinion, and I think that
Professor Kelley's opinion of the reliability of the very
early Irish genealogies is much more optimistic than the
general view which is represented in the modern scholarly
literature, with which I tend to agree. A detailed
discussion of these disagreements would require much more
time than I have at the moment, but I will briefly comment
below on the lines relevant to Eve's ancestry.
As was discussed at length by Professor Kelley in his
article, the most important source for the marriages and
identification of mothers is the "Ban Senchus" [abbreviated
BS] which lists a very large number of Irish women, with the
names of their fathers, husbands, and children. The version
we have now was probably written in the late twelfth
century, but there are clear indications that there were
earlier versions (late 10th or early 11th century) which
were updated from time to time, so BS is an important
primary source for the maternity of many individuals of
Irish history. It was edited by Margaret Dobbs in Revue
Celtique 47 (1930) 282-339, 48 (1931) 163-234, and 49 (1932)
437-489, of which the last is an every-name index to the
first two. Since the page number is sufficient to indicate
which volume, citations are in the form BS [page #('s)]. It
must be kept in mind that divorce and remarriage was
extremely common in early Ireland, so that it was the rule
rather than the exception, and thus if you know that A was
married to B and that A was the father of C, then it is
never permissable to conclude that B was the mother of C
unless there is also direct evidence of such a relationship
between B and C. In all cases in the table below, the
sources given explicitly name the mother as a parent of the
given child. There are a number of other cases in which the
father is known to have married someone who cannot be
directly shown to be the mother of the relevant child, and
the maternity is left as unknown in those cases.
The main two other sources are the genealogies and the
annals. The best early collection of Irish genealogies, the
twelfth century manuscript Rawlinson B502, was edited by M.
A. O'Brien in "Corpus Genealogiarum Hiberniae" (Dublin
1962), hereafter abbreviated CGH, which also includes
variant readings from three other manuscripts, the Book of
Leinster, the Book of Lecan, and the Book of Ballymote. In
addition, the end of the book also edits all pedigrees which
appear in the Book of Leinster but not in Rawlinson B502.
Citations from CGH below will be from Rawlinson B502 unless
"LL" appears, in which case it will be from the Book of
Leinster. Citations from the annals below will be mainly
obituaries, taken primarily from the Annals of Ulster [AU],
but sometimes from the Annals of Tigernach [AT], the
Chronicum Scotorum [CS], or the Annals of the Four Masters
[AFM], generally in that order of preference. (Many of the
obituaries appear in all four.) Some of these annals had
mislabled years, so that the year given in the annal might
be off by one or more years from the true date. For the
period relevant to the chart, these chronological
dislocations are well understood (but they are a serious
problem for the very early part of Irish history), and all
dates below include corrections to the true date. For
example, the Annals of Ulster label the true year from 1014
on, but the year labels are one year off for earlier years.
Thus 935AU below means that the entry appears in AU under
the year 934, which has been corrected to the true year 935.
Recommended secondary sources are the first two volumes of
"The Gill History of Ireland" (vol. 1: "Ireland before the
Vikings" and vol. 2: "Ireland before the Normans"), "Irish
Kings and High Kings" by Francis John Byrne, and volume IX
of "A New History of Ireland," which gives the genealogies
and king lists. (Volume I, which will be the history before
the Norman conquest, has not yet appeared so far as I know.)
People who use the tables in the latter two books are warned
that these tables sometimes give the traditional genealogy
without trying to weed out all of the fabricated parts. The
Leinster tables are particularly bad about this, and give
the fabricated Leinster tribal genealogy, without warning
that the earlier part should not be considered historically
accurate. (However, a careful scholar will note
chronological impossibilities in some of the relationships
given in the Leinster tables in both Irish Kings and High
Kings and the New History of Ireland.) The Gill History of
Ireland is highly recommended for its realistic assessment
of what the early records can actually prove.
I have set the data out in a chart format, but have included
the ancestor table numbers as a convenience to those who
want to convert to that form. Capitalized "Mac" indicates a
surname, whereas "mac" means "son of", and similarly for
"Ua" and "ua" (grandson of, later written as O'). "King of"
is abbreviated "k." Lines that continue earlier than the
tenth generation are marked "->" and "*" means that a note
appears after the chart, given by the ancestor number.
"Ingen" is the Irish word for daughter.
[Line width of at least 74 characters needed for chart to look right.]
/512.Cinaed mac Cairpre,k. Ui Cheinnselaig,d.935AU->*
/256.Cellach mac Cinaeda, k. Ui Cheinnselaig, d.947AFM.
/128.Domnall mac Cellaig, k. Ui Cheinnselaig, d. 974AU.
/64.Diarmait mac Domnaill, k. Ui Cheinnselaig, d. 996AU.
/32.Donnchad Mael na mBo, k. Ui Cheinnselaig, d. 1006AU.
/16.Diarmait mac Mael na mBo, k. Laigin, d. 6 or 7 Feb 1072AU.
| | /66.Gilla Patraic.
| \33.Aife ingen Gilla Patraic. [BS 189, 228]
| | /268.Ailill
| | /134.Carlus mac Ailella, k. Ui Aeda Odba.
| \67.Echrad ingen Carlusa. [BS 189, 228]
/8.Murchad mac Diarmata, k. Laigin & Dublin, d. 1070AU.
| | /544.Lachtnae mac Corcc->*
| | /272.Lorcan mac Lachtnae.
| | /136.Cennetig mac Lorcain, k. Thomond, d. 951AU.
| | /68.Brian Boruma, k. Ireland, d. 23 Apr 1014AU.
| | | | /548.Murchad.*
| | | | /274.Urchad mac Murchada, k. West Connacht.
| | | \137.Be Bind ingen Urchada. [BS 188, 227, 314, 338]
| | /34.Donnchad mac Briain, k. Mumain (Munster), d. 1065AU.
| | | | /552.Mael Morda mac Muirecain, d. 917AU->*
| | | | /276.Finn mac Mael Morda, d. 923AU.
| | | | /138.Murchad mac Finn, k. Laigin, d. 972AU.
| | | \69.Gormlaith ingen Murchada, d. 1030AT. [BS 189, 227]
| \17.Dirborgaill ingen Donnchada, D. 1080AU. [BS 190, 229]
/4.Donnchad mac Murchada, k. Laigin, d. 1115AU.
| | /18.NN Mac Bricc.
| \9.Sadb ingen Mac Bricc.*
/2.Diarmait Mac Murchada, k. Laigin (Leinster), d. 1171AU.
| | /10.Gilla Michil or Cinaed Ua Braenain.*
| \5.Orlaith ingen Ua Braenain. [BS 193, 198, 231]
| | /22.Cearnachan Ua Gairbita, k. Ui Feilmeda.
| \11.Uchdelb ingen Cearnachain Ua Gairbita. [BS 193, 198, 231]
1.Aife (Eve of Leinster) md. Richard Strongbow. [BS 232]
| /768.Tuathal mac Augaire, k. Laigin, d. 958AU->*
| /384.Dunlaing mac Tuathail, k. Laigin, d. 1014AU.
| /192.Donncuan ua Tuathail, k. Laigin, d. 1016AU.
| /96.Gilla Comgaill Ua Tuathail, d. 1041AU
| /48.Gilla Coemgin Ua Tuathail, d. 1059AU.
| /24.Donncuan Ua Tuathail.
| /12.Gilla Comgaill Ua Tuathail, d. 1127AFM*.
| | | /400.Donnchad Mael na mBo [same as #32].
| | | /200.Domnall Remar mac Mael na mBo, d. 1041AU.
| | | | | /802.Domnall mac Faelain, k. Deisi Muman, d. 995CS->*
| | | | \401.Mael Maidne ingen Domnaill. [BS 192]
| | | /100.Donnchad mac Domnaill, k. Ui Cheinnselaig, d. 1089CS.
| | | /50.Mael Morda ua Domnaill, d. 1090AFM.
| | | | | /202.NN Mac Faelain.
| | | | \101.Cailleach ingen Mac Faelain. [BS193]
| | \25.Sadb ingen Mael Morda Ua Domnaill.*
| | | /816.Murchad mac Nuallain->*
| | | /408.Dunlaing ua Nuallain.
| | | /204.Mael Maud Ua Nuallain.
| | | /102.Cele Ua Nuallain.
| | \51.Luanmaisi ingen Ceile Ua Nuallain. [BS196]
| /6.Muirchertach Ua Tuathail, k. Ui Muiredaig, d. 1164AT.
\3.Mor ingen Muirchertaig Ua Tuathail. [BS 232]
| /896.Cennetig mac Morda->*
| /448.Cernach ua Morda, k. Loigsi, d. 1018AT.
| /224.Cinaed Ua Morda.
| /112.Amargen Ua Morda, k. Loigsi, d. 1026AU.
| | \225.Echrad ingen Carlusa [same as #67].
| /56.Faelan Ua Morda, k. Loigsi, d. 1069AFM.
| /28.Amargen Ua Morda, k. Loigsi, d. 1097AT.
| | | /114.Mac Dairgen Ua Thairmeascain.
| | \57.Maelind ingen Meic Dairgin. [BS 195]
| /14.Loigsech Ua Morda, k. Loigsi, d. 1149CS.
| | \29.Gormlaith ingen Mac Carrach Calma?*
\7.Cacht ingen Loigsig Ua Morda. [BS 232, 233]
| /60.Dunlaing Ua Caellaide.*
| /30.Finn Ua Caellaide, k. of half of Osraige.
| | | /976.Cellach mac Cerbaill, k. Osraige, d. 908AU.
| | | /488.Donnchad mac Cellaig, k. Osraige, d. 976AU.*
| | | /244.Gilla Patraic mac Donnchada, k. Osraige, d. 996AU.
| | | /122.Tadg mac Gilla Patraic, blinded 1027AU.
| | \61.Dirborgaill ingen Taidg, d. 1098AT. [BS 190]
\15.Gormlaith ingen Finn Ua Caellaide. [BS 233]
Notes:
9. BS 194. See Kelley's Line XI for a suggestion as to her
ancestry. I did not include it in my chart because it is
still unproven.
10. His first name is uncertain. BS 193 gives it as Cinaed
(Kenneth), while BS 198 and BS 231 give it as Gilla Michil.
12. Gilla Comgaill Ua Tuathail is given by Kelley as a king
of Ui Muiredaig killed in 1119, but both title and date of
death are wrong. Gilla Comgaill was abbot of Glendalough,
and died in 1127.
25. BS 195, 196. Kelley overlooked this marriage in his
article, which did not include Sadb's ancestors.
29. BS 198, 230. Carrach Calma was a nickname of Donnchad
(d. 969), a great-grandson of the Ui Neill king Flann Sinna.
(See Table 4 in the genealogies of volume IX of "A New
History of Ireland.") BS 230 calls Gormlaith a daughter of
Carrach Calma, which is obviously chronologically
impossible, and it is clear that a word has accidently
dropped from the account of BS 198, which calls her a
daughter of Mac Carrach Calma, where "Mac" is clearly meant
to indicate descendant rather than son. It is unfortunate
that the exact line of descent from Carrach Calma is
unknown, for it would give a descent from the Ui Neill kings
of Ireland and their intermarriages.
60. BS sometimes uses Ua Cellaig rather than Ua Caellaide,
confusing the two names. I have used the name as it appears
in the Osraige tables in New History of Ireland, vol. IX.
488. The Osraige pedigree shows two men named Gilla
Patraic, grandfather and grandson, who were both sons of a
Donnchad, and the Ban Shenchus shows two marriages of a
Donnchad of Osraige which produced a son named Gilla
Patraic, but it is not clear which marriage belongs to which
Donnchad [BS 189, 228]. I tend to agree with Kelley's
suggestion that the wife of Donnchad (#488) was Aife, sister
of Domnall mac Faelain of Deisi Muman (#820), but the
identification is not certain.
512. See CGH 117a3 ff., Kelley's Line I. I am inclined to
accept the Ui Cheinnselaig pedigree back only to Cinaed's
father Cairpre mac Diarmata (d. 876) and Cairpre's father
Diarmait (no further data), because the earlier part of the
genealogy has discrepancies and chronological difficulties.
I am unconvinced by Kelley's "correction" to this pedigree
(at his generations 13-15). The first few generations given
by Kelley are of doubtful historicity.
544. See CGH 152b22 ff., Kelley's Line XII. The earlier
ancestry of this family is known to be a fabrication, but it
can be accepted without much hesitation back to Lachtnae's
great-great-grandfather Toirrdelbach (Kelley's generation
9), ancestor of the sept of Ui Toirrdelbaig.
548. See Kelley's Line XIII. I need to see more evidence
before I accept any more generations prior to Murchad.
552. See CGH 117c36 ff. and 117d1 ff., Kelley's Line IV.
The male line ancestry is the same as that of Tuathal mac
Augaire [#768].
768. See CGH 117c1 ff., Kelley's Line III. This line is
very well documented back to the mid seventh century, and
can probably be accepted back to Dunlaing (late fifth
century? - Kelley's generation 5), who was ancestor of the
sept of Ui Dunlainge.
802. See CGH 154d11 ff., Kelley's line XI. Domnall mac
Faelain was the son of Faelan mac Cormaic, d. 966, king of
Deisi Muman, and grandson of Cormac mac Mothla, d. 920, king
of Deisi Muman (Kelley's generation 17). I am dubious about
the earlier part, which is a string of unverifiable names.
816. See CGH LL337b19 ff., not in Kelley. The only earlier
individual in the pedigree whom I have been able to identify
in the annals is Fergus (d. 738AU) son of Moenach, king of
Fotharta, who was six generations before Murchad. All the
earlier generations appear to be unverifiable names. I am
inclined to accept the pedigree back to the above Moenach,
but the large number of unidentified intervening names
between Cele and Fergus leaves open considerable
possibilities for error.
896. See CGH LL337g11 ff., Kelley's Line VIII. The
pedigree is just a string of names prior to Mescell, d. 799
(Kelley's generation 13), from whom the pedigree can
probably be regarded as historical.
976. See CGH 117e39 ff., Kelley's Line X. Kelley suggests
that the line might be valid "at least to the third century
A.D.," but I can see no reasonable possibility that such a
statement might be true for this or any other Irish family.
The pedigree is quite solid back to the late seventh
century, but the earlier dynastic history of Osraige is
obscure, and confused further by the fact that another
dynasty apparently occupied the throne in the late sixth and
early seventh centuries. See the discussion in "Ireland
before the Vikings", by Gearoid Mac Niocaill (Gill History
of Ireland, vol. 1, Dublin 1972), especially pp. 84-86, 98-
99, 127, 129.
RADNAILT of DUBLIN
The other main "Gateway Ancestor" to Ireland is Radnailt,
daughter of the Norse Dublin prince Amlaib by his wife
Maelcorcre, daughter of Dunlaing mac Tuathail, king of
Leinster, whose ancestry is given in the Life of Gruffudd ap
Cynan (her son, ancestor of numerous Welsh and English
families). Since most of her immediate ancestors were also
ancestors of Eve of Leinster, it does not take much
additional room to give her chart too. Eve of Leinster does
not share Radnailt's Dublin Norse ancestors, who are given
here to the earliest proven generation.
/64.Imar (Ivar), k. Dublin (& York?), d. 873AU.*
/32.NN mac Imar.*
/16.Sitric (Sigtrygg) ua Imar, k. Dublin, d. 927AU.
/8.Amlaib (Olaf) Cuaran, k. Dublin & York, d. 981AU.
/4.Sitric (Sigtrygg) mac Amlaib, k. Dublin, d. 1042AU.
| \9.Gormlaith ingen Murchada [#69 on Eve chart].
/2.Amlaib (Olaf) mac Sitric, d. 1034.
| | /10.Brian Boruma, k. Ireland [#68 on Eve chart].
| \5.Slani ingen Briain.*
1.Radnailt, md. Cynan ap Iago.
| /6.Dunlaing mac Tuathail, k. Laigin [#384 on Eve chart].
\3.Maelcorcre ingen Dunlaing.*
Notes:
3. No Irish source mentions this marriage, or the marriage
of Radnailt to Cynan ap Iago. While it would be nice to
have confirmation of these marriages in a more contemporary
source, there does not seem to be any good reason to doubt
them. The close connections of Gruffudd ap Cynan with
Dublin are well documented.
5. The twelfth century "Cogadh Gaedhel re Gailaibh" [ed.
Todd, Rolls Series 48, London 1867], an independent source,
confirms that Sitric was married to a daughter of Brian, but
does not give her name, nor confirm that she was Amlaib's
mother.
32. The contemporary records consistently refer to Sitric
(Sigtrygg) as being a grandson of Imar (Ivar) without
identifying his father. The possible identity of the
intervening generation was discussed at length in this
newsgroup some time ago.
64. There is no contemporary evidence for the parentage of
Ivar. The mythical Ragnarr Lothbrok, his alleged father,
is of very dubious historicity.
If anyone sees any errors in the above (typographical or
otherwise), please let me know.
Stewart Baldwin
Delbert W Argyle
Stewart Baldwin wrote:
>
> On 27 July 1996, I posted the following item to this newsgroup. Since
> recent questions make this material relevant again and it has been
> some time since it was posted (and since I saw no objections to my
> suggestion that I repost it), I am reposting the item. Except for a
> couple of typographical errors, and some miscalculated ancestor
> numbers, which have been corrected, this is the same as the item which
> appeared on 27 July 1996. When I first posted this, I forgot to
> mention that the numerous diacritical marks have been omitted on this
> chart, due to the usual difficulty of transmitting special characters
> over the internet.
>
> Stewart Baldwin
>
> --------------------------------------
>
> In response to recent queries about Eve of Leinster, wife of
> Richard Strongbow, earl of Pembroke,
> of Eve of Leinster," by Professor David Kelley, in "The
> Genealogist" vol. 1 pp. 4-27. (Turton's earlier attempt is
> far too unreliable to take seriously.) With the exception
> of Sadb (#25) and her ancestors, whom Kelley apparently
> overlooked, there is not much difference between my chart
> and the one given by Professor Kelley (except for format),
> If anyone sees any errors in the above (typographical or
> otherwise), please let me know.
>
> Stewart Baldwin
Dear All,
My files, currently unavailable, contain 3 articles on Irish ancestry by
Kelley. Why is it that only one is ever cited here? It seems to me
that the others shed a meaningful light. TIA
DWA
Luke Stevens
> 10.Gilla Michil or Cinaed Ua Braenain.*
> 10. His first name is uncertain. BS 193 gives it as Cinaed
> (Kenneth), while BS 198 and BS 231 give it as Gilla Michil.
Cinaed is probably a red herring. (I don't mean that literally! :) )
While BS 198 & 231 explicitly identify Orlaith as the daughter of Gilla
Michil (by Uchdelb) and mother of Diarmait, BS 193 simply says that
Uchdelb was wife of Cinaed and mother of five kids including one named
Orlaith. There is plenty of room to suppose either that not all of these
were by the same father, or, more likely, that Uchdelb bore to each
husband a daughter named Orlaith. BS 193 just isn't a good enough reason
for me to reject Gilla Michil as belonging in this generation.
As another note, BS 198 & 231 (cf. 191) both read something like "Gilla
Michil mac meic Braenain." This kind of usage most often indicates that
Gilla Michil was a grandson of the Braenan from whom came the surname
MacBranain (see O'Clery 1344), since ua Braenain would like a surname
given wrongly, and mac Braenain would like a son rather than grandson.
So the "Ua Braenain" you show should, I think, properly be "ua
Braenain," despite the capitalization printed in BS 193.
Luke Stevens
Stewart Baldwin
ste...@pss.fit.edu (Luke Stevens) wrote:
>> 10.Gilla Michil or Cinaed Ua Braenain.*
> <snip>
>> 10. His first name is uncertain. BS 193 gives it as Cinaed
>> (Kenneth), while BS 198 and BS 231 give it as Gilla Michil.
>Cinaed is probably a red herring. (I don't mean that literally! :) )
>While BS 198 & 231 explicitly identify Orlaith as the daughter of Gilla
>Michil (by Uchdelb) and mother of Diarmait, BS 193 simply says that
>Uchdelb was wife of Cinaed and mother of five kids including one named
>Orlaith. There is plenty of room to suppose either that not all of these
>were by the same father, or, more likely, that Uchdelb bore to each
>husband a daughter named Orlaith. BS 193 just isn't a good enough reason
>for me to reject Gilla Michil as belonging in this generation.
>As another note, BS 198 & 231 (cf. 191) both read something like "Gilla
>Michil mac meic Braenain." This kind of usage most often indicates that
>Gilla Michil was a grandson of the Braenan from whom came the surname
>MacBranain (see O'Clery 1344), since ua Braenain would like a surname
>given wrongly, and mac Braenain would like a son rather than grandson.
>So the "Ua Braenain" you show should, I think, properly be "ua
>Braenain," despite the capitalization printed in BS 193.
>Luke Stevens
I think you right that the correct name is more likely to be Gilla
Michil than Cinaed, but I don't think the evidence at hand is
sufficient to be decisive. Based on a statement which appeared in a
footnote of a recent publication, it appears that a new, more
scholarly edition of Ban Shenchus is forthcoming. It might be that a
better edition of BS (when available) will help to clear up some
matters like these which are left ambiguous by Dobbs's awkward
edition.
Stewart Baldwin
Stewart Baldwin
Delbert W Argyle <dw...@pcfastnet.com> wrote:
>Stewart Baldwin wrote:
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> In response to recent queries about Eve of Leinster, wife of
>> Richard Strongbow, earl of Pembroke,
>(chomp) was the article "The Ancestry
>> of Eve of Leinster," by Professor David Kelley, in "The
>> Genealogist" vol. 1 pp. 4-27. (Turton's earlier attempt is
>> far too unreliable to take seriously.) With the exception
>> of Sadb (#25) and her ancestors, whom Kelley apparently
>> overlooked, there is not much difference between my chart
>> and the one given by Professor Kelley (except for format),
>>(chomp, chomp)
>Dear All,
>My files, currently unavailable, contain 3 articles on Irish ancestry by
>Kelley. Why is it that only one is ever cited here? It seems to me
>that the others shed a meaningful light. TIA
>DWA
When I wrote my ancestor table for Eve, it was not my intention to
give a complete bibliography for early Irish genealogy in general.
Professor Kelley's articles on early Irish genealogy contain much that
is at odds with the opinions of other scholars, and if I had cited all
of his articles, then it would have been necessary for me to also cite
a selection of articles giving other opinions which are closer to my
own views. Since these disagreements involve the time period before
the individuals on the ten generation chart, I chose to cite only the
article which was of immediate relevance to the first ten generations
of Eve's ancestry.
Stewart Baldwin