The ancestry of Clarice, wife of Robert de Auberville

[John P. Ravilious]

Monday, 30 December, 2013





Hello All,



In 2003-2005 evidence was noted in various posts on the newsgroup that identified Clarice de Auberville, 2nd wife of Fulk fitz Warin (d. 1250 or later) as the daughter of Robert de Auberville (a descendant of Ranulf de Glanville) and his wife Clarice [1].



Clarice has been noted in a helpful record on the National Archvies website, in which she - identified as 'Clarice daughter of Robert de Gosteling' - quitclaimed certain lands to the priory of Canterbury Cathedral including the marshlands of Broomhill "except for 36 acres there which Robert de Ambervill', her husband, has defended against the sea " [2]. Robert de Auberville and his wife Clarice are noted in transactions involving Robertsbridge in 1219 and later [3]. The identification of Clarice as the daughter of Robert de Gosteling (i.e. Guestling, Sussex) is significant, as this serves to substantiate details in a dispute with Warin de Sumery noted in the Curia Regis Rolls. This record alleges that there was an agreement in the time of Henry II between "Warin de Sumery grandfather of the same Warin, and Sansom de Gestling' grandfather of the same Clarice regarding 9 virgates of land with appurtenances in Beus' " [4].



Sanson or Samson de Gestling is found as a witness to charters granting lands to Robertsbridge priory, including those by Alice, countess of Eu (d. 11 Sept 1188) and her son Count Henry (d. ca. 1190) [5]. Sanson de Gestling had numerous grants of lands, including one from the prior of Canterbury Cathedral of the priory's marsh in Broomhill, dated ca 1179x1186 [6]. He is found witnessing one particular receipt dated c. 1202 by Idonia de Herst from Alured de St. Martin of 6d. in rent 'issuing of of Promhelle' [Broomhill], the first two witnesses to which were Sanson de Gestling and his son Robert [7]. Samson de Gestling is also identified as the uncle of Robert de Icklesham on his mother's side [8].



Based on the foregoing, we now know something more of Clarice de Gestling and her ancestry. There is further detail that could likely be found in Vol. 9 of the County History of Sussex, which unfortunately has not been seen or found online. Should anyone have access to same, useful details in the accounts concerning the parishes of Guestling, Icklesham, Iden and Northiam may yet imerge.



Cheers,



John







________________________________________________
I I
Sanson de Gestling = Maud NN de = Maud
of Broomhill, Sussex &c. I Icklesham I
________________I______ _______I__
I I I I I
Robert Bertin Laurencia Robert de Henry
de Gestling Icklesham
I
I
Robert de = Clarice
Auberville I
I_________
I
Fulk fitz = 2) Clarice de
Warin I Auberville
d. aft 8 I
Oct 1250) I
I
V











Notes



[1] D. Richardson, C.P. Addition: Clarice de Auberville, wife of Sir Fulk Fitz Warin, SGM, 9 Dec 2005. See also other threads discussing Clarice, her parentage and daughter Mabel in the SGM archives.



[2] Quitclaim, CCA-DCc-ChAnt/A/117, nd [1222x1238] :

" From: Clarice daughter of Robert de Gosteling

To: John, prior of Canterbury Cathedral Priory;

the convent of Canterbury Cathedral Priory

For lands in 'Snav'lande', 'Harpe', Fairfield ('Fairefeld'), the new and old land ('in nova et in veteri terra'), 'Essewell'', 'Eppeltre' (?Appledore), 'Hocholte', 'Brakenesse', and all of 'Prunhull' (?Broomhill, Kent/Sussex), except for 36 acres there which Robert de Ambervill', her husband, has defended against the sea. For this quitclaim the priory has given her the 36 acres. No date. [Date: handwriting and dates of John Sittingbourne and John Chatham, priors.] [DCc-Register/E describes Clarice as de Sheling/Shilingh, and gives her son, Richard son of Bering, as having constructed the sea defences, rather than her husband. There are signs of deletion and overwriting.] Witnesses: 'Dominus' Ralph Gernu'; 'Dominus' Reginald de Cornhull; 'Dominus' Robert de Rokelle; William de Gresl'; Peter de Branford; John de planetis; Stephen de La strande; John son of Tyrry; John son of Robert; John Thurte; Richard the steward; William the summoner ('summonitor'); Walter Malhoysel Endorsed with contemporary description. Clarice described as de Aubervill' and the lands described as in the Marsh. Also late 13th century description, Appledore and Fairfield, and note of registration. 'Prunhull' given as 'Prumhelle'. " [A2A, Canterbury Cathedral Archives, Dean and Chapter Archive, CCA-DCc-ChAnt/A/117]




[3] Calendar of Charters and Documents relating to the Abbey of Robertsbridge, Co. Sussex

(1873), pp. 55, no. 172; p. 68, no. 207.



[4] Curia Regis Rolls (1955: full text not seen], p. 325:



" Radulfus de Aubervill' et Claricia uxor ejus attachiati fuerunt ad respondendum Warino de Sumery quare non tenent ei finem factum tempore Henrici regis avi etc. inter Warinum de Sumery avum ejusdem Warini et Sansonem de Gestling' avum ejusdem Claricie de ix. virgatis terre cum pertinenciis in Beus', unde cirographum etc., quod idem Warinus profert et quod testatur quod idem Sanson et heredes sui ... "



[5] Monasticon Anglicanum (1846), vol. V, p. 667, no. III; p. 668, no. VI.



[6] Grant in gavelkind, CCA-DCc-ChAnt/P/47, nd [1179x1186] :




" From: Alan, I, prior of Canterbury Cathedral Priory;

the convent of Canterbury Cathedral Priory

To: Samson of Guestling ('gestlingis')

The priory's marsh at Broomhill ('prunchilla').

For an annual payment of 1 mark, payable as specified. No date. [Date: Prior Alan's dates.]

Witnesses: Stephen of Kenardington; Stephen of Warehorne; Bartholomew the prior's steward ('senescalcus meus')

Endorsed with description in late 13th cent hands. " [A2A, Canterbury Cathedral Archives, Dean and Chapter Archive, CCA-DCc-ChAnt/P/47]




[7] Cal. Robertsbridge, ibid., p. 17, no. 51.



[8] Sussex Archaeological Collections (1916), p. 180 [seen in 'snippet' form only].

[Douglas Richardson]

Great post, John. Thanks for sharing this information with all of us.

Your discovery means we won't have to be "guestling" in the dark anymore about the parentage of Clarice, wife of Robert d'Auberville.

For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Clarice de Guestling/Gestling, wife of Robert d'Auberville:

Elizabeth Alsop, Samuel Argall, Barbara Aubrey, Frances Baldwin, Charles Barham, Anne Baynton, Marmaduke Beckwith, Dorothy Beresford, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Thomas Booth, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, Thomas Bressey, Edward Bromfield, Stephen Bull, Elizabeth, John, and Thomas Butler, Charles Calvert, St. Leger Codd, Francis Dade, Humphrey Davie, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, William Farrer, Henry Filmer, Henry Fleete, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Anne Humphrey, Edmund Jennings, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Anne Lovelace, Percival Lowell, Gabriel, Roger & Sarah Ludlow, Thomas Lunsford, Simon Lynde, Agnes Mackworth, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, George Reade, William Rodney, Elizabeth Saint John, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Rose Stoughton, Samuel & William Torrey, John Throckmorton, John West.

Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah

[al...@mindspring.com]

Great post John

You may find this interesting:

Louis Francis Salzman, The History of the Parish of Hailsham: The Abbey of Otham and the Priory of ..., Lewes, 1901, p 173 at http://books.google.com/books?id=2-UVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA173&lpg=PA173&dq=ralph+icklesham&source=bl&ots=NCummwToBO&sig=aTdvVFlyWZaSid3AYHpa0YW_dco&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M7PBUsTGO6jSsATkyoGIDg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=ralph%20icklesham&f=false.

One theory of relationship of Denne to the Icklesham families.


Doug Smith

[John P. Ravilious]

=====================

Dear Doug,

Thanks for the kind words, and the ref to Salzman.

I've seen his work and others involving the de Dene and de Ic(k)lesham families, and certainly Salzman's seems to be the received account. I am hoping to get more details from VCH and the Curia Regis rolls, and perhaps the identification of Sanson de Gestling's parentage may yet result.

Wishing you and all the list a very Happy New Year,

John

[al...@mindspring.com]

This may be of some help. I have not found anything under the other manors, Iden, Icklesham and Northiam. The Robert mentioned below may be Sanson's father or grandfather.



VCH Sussex, Vol. 9, Folkestone and London, 1973, Guestling Hundred, Guestling Manor, p 180.

"A Robert de Guestling is met with as early as 1130 and Alice widow of Geoffrey de Guestling in 1219 claimed dower against John, son of Geoffrey by a previous wife, in Guestling and Iden and elsewhere. John died soon after this , his heir apparently being his half-brother Robert, the son of Geoffrey and Alice, who in 1223 was under age and in ward to Peter de Scotney. About twenty years later the manor seems to have been divided between tnhe two daughters of John de 'Estling', Isabel who married another John de Guestling, and Agatha who married Henry de Ore. Henry in 1254 received, at the instance of Richard de Ore, lord of Ore and doubless his near kinsman, a grant of free warren in his demesne lands of Guestling, and a fair there yearly on the eve, day and morrow of St Laurence (Aug. 9 to 11). Henry however became involved in the Baron's War of 1264 and in 1265 his lands were forfeited, an allowance being made to his wife. Guestling evidently passed to John de Ore whose widow Amice in 1307 secured the reversion of the second half of the manor and advowson from Philip de Gestling, after which it descendedin the same manner as Ore (q.v.)."


Doug Smith

[CE Wood]

John de Estling was grandfather of Agatha Ore.

Found on page 487 of the index of Curia Regis Rolls preserved in the Public Record Office XIX (33-34 Henry III) (1249-1250) (Vol 19):

"Ore, Agatha wife of Henry de, 799
Henry de, 799
John de, del, 1219
John de Estling grandfather of Agatha de, 799
see Aure; Oure?


I don't have access to the volume, but some else may.

CE Wood

[CE Wood]

On Tuesday, January 7, 2014 4:52:36 AM UTC-8, al...@mindspring.com wrote:

John de Gestling was uncle of Isabel and Agatha (de Ore) per entry on page 374 of Curia Regis Rolls preserved in the Public Record Office XX (34-35 Henry III) (1250):

"Gestling, Isabel, wife of John de, 1955
John de, 1955
John de uncle of Isabel and Agatha (de Ore), 1955
Juliana daughter of John de, 1955"

Again, I have no access. Seem to be many Johns, both Estling and Gestling.

CE Wood

[John P. Ravilious]

Dear Doug,

Many thanks for that. Google 'snippets' are useful but can only get us so far.

Likely you are correct in re: the early Robert de Gestling; Sanson de Gestling most likely was a (younger ?) son of a younger son, with Gestling/Guestling inherited by a senior line. John de Gestling may be the justiciar who is noted in other records in the reign of King John.

Will continue the search for more Gestlings, less guessings.....

Cheers,

John