Subject: Dulcia Savage, wife of Henry Bold
Henry Bold and his wife Dulcia Savage, ancestors of the Eltonhead immigrants to Virginia and Maryland, are mentioned in document MS 579 1464, part of the Beamont collection of manuscripts held by the Warrington Library, Museum and Archives Service. It is described as follows:
>MS 579 1464
>1 Henry Bold , kt, and son Richard.
>2? Dulcie, daughter of John de [? Savage] esq and wife of Henry
Bold, son of Richard.
>Grant from 1 to 2, for life of 2, of land in Bold (specified and
tenants named). Remainders given.
>Witnesses: Peter de Legh, kt, Richard Kyghley and William Irlond
esqs.
>20 Oct 1464
>Latin; 2 seal tags only
>
>An image of this document is at http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheshirero/9851628056/.
>
>Marianne Dillow
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cheshirero/9851628056/
________________________________
From: "marlow...@frontier.com" <marlow...@frontier.com>
To: "GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com" <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2013 12:21 PM
Subject: Need a Translation On Latin on Link from the Rcord Office on Bold and Savage 1464
Matt Tompkins
Thanks, I believe my line from Dulcie Bold and John Savage, ESQ, , died 1495, are my grandparents. The Savage line was what I was hoping for.
I know it was posted that in 1464, that only John Savage that married Katherine Stanley would be the correct grandfather to me as John Savage that married the Breretion was dead before that.
Marianne Dillow
________________________________
From: Don Stone <d...@donstonetech.com>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: Need a Translation On Latin on Link from the Rcord Office on Bold and Savage 1464
On 9/21/2013 2:08 PM, Matt Tompkins wrote:
Matt,
-- Don Stone
Good question Don.
The original record from Warrington is this:
[no title] MS 579 1464
Contents:
1 Henry Bold, kt, and son Richard
2? Dulcie, daughter of John de [? Savage] esq and wife of Henry Bold, son of Richard
Grant from 1 to 2, for life of 2, of land in Bold (specified and tenants named). Remainders given.
Witnesses: Peter de Legh, kt, Richard Kyghley and William Irlond esqs
20 Oct 1464
Latin; 2 seal tags only
After my posting on this record , Douglas Richardson has posted that the only John Savage, Esq, in 1464, was John Savage, Esq that married Katherine Stanley that he knows of.
Also, a archive posting on Todd Whitesides regarding John Savage.
Despite what is printed in VCH Lancaster about Dulcia [or Dulcie] Savage
being a daughter of SIR John Savage at the time of her 1464 marriage covenant,
it appears from a record at the Cheshire and Chester Archives in the Beamont
MSS. that her father was actually John Savage ESQ. at the time her husband
Henry Bolde (s/o Richard Bolde) settled property on her on 20 Oct. 1464 [Beamont
MSS. ~ MS 579]. That rules out what sense I was attempting to make from her
father being a knight in 1464. In 1464 John Savage (d. 1495) was still only
called an esquire [from his father's IPM], most likely being the John Savage
that was made a knight in 1471 by Edward IV and from 1472 on appearing in
Cheshire records as a knight. John Savage "junior" (d. 1492) was made a Knight
of the Bath in 1465. Chronologically it appears more likely that Dulcia who
was married and had property settled on her in 1464 was a daughter of John
Savage (ca. 1421-1495). The will of her son Richard Bolde, Knt., indicates
that Dulcia is buried in what was then called the Church of St. Wilfrid,
Farnworth (in Widnes).
Posting by Todd Whitesides
Marianne Dillow
________________________________
From: Matt Tompkins <ml...@le.ac.uk>
To: gen-me...@rootsweb.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: Need a Translation On Latin on Link from the Rcord Office on Bold and Savage 1464
Matt
Thanks Matt,
I appreciate all you have done on the translation of this record.
Marianne Dillow