The Greenes of Boughton and Greene's Norton, co. Northants.
The...@aol.com
Hello All,
Seeing nothing which provides a documented line of descent for the Greene
family in the SGM archives, I am presenting the information I have in hand
for review, comment and criticism. The earlier portions given without
reference are from a Rootsweb page, URL given below.
[NOTE: I have dispensed with the webpage author's attribution of the
title, Baron de Greene de Boketon]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
.1. Sir Alexander de Greene, or de Boketon.
'King John bestowed the estate of Boughton in Northampton
upon him.'
.2. Walter de Greene, or de Boketon
'He was probably a knight in the 7th Crusade which ended
in 1240... died after 1314...'
.3. John de Greene, or de Boketon
'born about 1234 in Broudston, England, died about 1271
in Palestine; married about 1270 in England, Alice
Bottisham...'
.4. Sir Thomas de Greene
'born about 1271 in Boughton, Northamptonshire, England,
died after 1319 in England...'
.5. Sir Thomas de Greene
'born about 1292 in Boughton... died about 1352...
married 23 October 1312 Lady Lucie la Zouche.....
daughter of Lord Eudo la Zouche and Millicent Cantilupe.
...made High Sheriff of Northampton...'
.6. Sir Henry de Greene
'married about 1340...Catherine Drayton...daughter of
Sir John de Drayton and Philippa d'Ardene.
Lord Chief Justice of England in 1353...
By a special license given by the King, Thomas, the
eldest of Henry's children, received Boughton, and
Henry, the second son received Greene's Norton.'
.7. Sir Henry de Greene, 2nd son
'married about 1368 in England, Matilda de Mauduit...
daughter of Sir Thomas Mauduit' [of Warminster]
'He received Greene's Norton from his father, and was
heir to his uncle, Sir Simon Drayton'
'Matilda was sole heir to her father's lordships...'
.8. Thomas de Greene
'married about 1397... Mary Talbot'
- - - - - - - - - - -
Generation 8 is reflected in PA 2nd ed., pp. 157-158. In PA, David Faris
shows Thomas Greene (#8 above) as being 'Thomas Greene, Knt. of Greene's
Norton, Boughton, & c.,... son of Thomas Greene, Knt. of Boughton....'.
The differences at this point appear to be:
1. Faris shows Thomas Greene (Gen. 8) as son of Thomas
Greene of Boughton, elder brother of Sir Henry Greene
(Gen. 7 above), and not the son of Sir Henry.
2. Faris also shows that Boughton and Greene's Norton
were held by Thomas Greene (Gen. 8), indicating that
A. These holdings were never separated as alleged
by the author of this site, or
B. The holder of either Boughton or Greene's Norton
(or his heirs) died s.p.l., leaving these holdings
to be reunited in the hands of either Thomas
Greene (Gen. 8) or his not-certainly-identified
father.
3. The chronology given at Generation 5 as it relates
to the family of Eudo la Zouche (who d. before 25
June 1279) does not provide a high level of certainty.
Any documentation, corrections or confirmation will be greatly welcomed.
Good luck, and good hunting.
John *
* John P. Ravilious
NOTE: The URL for the site in question is
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~legends/greene.html
Kay Allen AG
Thompson, _The Genealogist_, Spring 1999: 24 etseq.
1. Sir Thomas, b. c. 1368. = Mary Talbot
2. Sir Thomas Grene, b. c. 1343/44.
3 [Margery] Mablethorpe.
4. Sir Henry Grene, Lord Chief Justice.
He does not touch upon the ancestry beyond this point. There is an article in
_Herald & Genealogist_, 6(1891) which discusses this also, but I do not know how
reliable the ancestry is, as given. it shows that the division of lands was
Boughton and Greene's Norton to the Thomas branch and Drayton to Sir Henry who
married the Mauduit.
Does VCH Northants. sort this any better?
Kay Allen AG
malinda
~malinda
Subject: Re: The Greenes of Boughton and Greene's Norton, co. Northants.
> This is taken from "The Sir Thomas Gre[e]nes of Greene's Norton", Neil D.
> Thompson, _The Genealogist_, Spring 1999: 24 etseq.
>
> 1. Sir Thomas, b. c. 1368. = Mary Talbot
>
> 2. Sir Thomas Grene, b. c. 1343/44.
> 3 [Margery] Mablethorpe.
>
> 4. Sir Henry Grene, Lord Chief Justice.
>
> He does not touch upon the ancestry beyond this point. There is an article
in
> _Herald & Genealogist_, 6(1891) which discusses this also, but I do not
know how
> reliable the ancestry is, as given. it shows that the division of lands
was
> Boughton and Greene's Norton to the Thomas branch and Drayton to Sir Henry
who
> married the Mauduit.
>
> Does VCH Northants. sort this any better?
>
> Kay Allen AG
>
> The...@aol.com wrote:
>
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG
malinda wrote:
> Did any of these Greenes immigrate to colonial Virginia in the 1600s ?
> ~malinda
>
> Subject: Re: The Greenes of Boughton and Greene's Norton, co. Northants.
>
> > This is taken from "The Sir Thomas Gre[e]nes of Greene's Norton", Neil D.
> > Thompson, _The Genealogist_, Spring 1999: 24 etseq.
> >
> > 1. Sir Thomas, b. c. 1368. = Mary Talbot
> >
> > 2. Sir Thomas Grene, b. c. 1343/44.
> > 3 [Margery] Mablethorpe.
> >
> > 4. Sir Henry Grene, Lord Chief Justice.
> >
> > He does not touch upon the ancestry beyond this point. There is an article
> in
> > _Herald & Genealogist_, 6(1891) which discusses this also, but I do not
> know how
> > reliable the ancestry is, as given. it shows that the division of lands
> was
> > Boughton and Greene's Norton to the Thomas branch and Drayton to Sir Henry
> who
> > married the Mauduit.
> >
> > Does VCH Northants. sort this any better?
> >
> > Kay Allen AG
> >
> > The...@aol.com wrote:
> >
Kmdee...@aol.com
see the Greene's of Rhode Island by Louise Brownell Clarke.
Katherine
Kay Allen AG
Kay Allen AG a Katherine who prefers K
Rosie Bevan
source material to aid the research.
VCH Northants v.4 p.77 Boughton Manor
In the reign of Edward I, the manor was conveyed by abbot William de
Nutricilla to "John de Boughton [Assize R 3 Edw III, m 48 d] who already
owned land in Boughton by inheritance [F of F Northants 12 Edw I, no 112]
From John it passed to his son, another John, [De Banco R 363, m53] and to
the latters's son Thomas [Feud Aids, iv, 23], against whom and his mother
Juliana, William Abbot of St Wandrille, brought an action in 1330 claiming
that as the estate had belonged to the abbey by virtue of the Prebend of
Uphaven, in the diocese of Salisbury, and as the consent of the dean and
chapter had not been obtained, the alienation of the manor by William de
Nutricilla was not valid. The abbot, however, failed to prosecute and
judgement was given for Thomas [Assize R 3 Edw III, m 48d], who in the same
year successfully claimed view of frankpledge in his manor of Boughton, on
prescription; he was sheriff for Northants. in 1331, 1334, and 1343.....Sir
Thomas de Boughton and Joan his wife sold the reversion of the manor [of
Boughton] to Henry Green of Isham, junior, [Fof F Northants 13 Edw III, no
195] in whose family it remained for many years. Henry Green was knighted in
1354 and in 1361 was appointed chief justice of the King's Bench, from which
he was removed in 1365; [DNB]; he died in 1369 and was succeeded in his
Boughton estates by Thomas his son by his first wife; Drayton which he had
acquired from Sir John Drayton, brother of his second wife Catherine, being
settled on Henry his son by her [CIPM 43 Edw III, pt 1]. Sir Thomas, who
died in 1391 [CIPM 15 Rich II, pt 1, no.24] was succeeded by his son another
Thomas, Sheriff of Northants. in 1417, in which year he died. [CIPM 5 Hen V,
no 39]. His widow Mary died in 1433, when their son, another Sir Thomas,
came into possession of the whole manor [Fine R Northants. 12 Hen VI, m 42].
The manor passed from him to his son, grandson and great-grandson, all of
whom were called Thomas [CIPM 2 Edw IV, no.4; Halstead, Succinct
Genealogies, 169], but the sixth and last Thomas died in 1506, without male
heirs, when his property passed to his two daughters Anne and Maud [CIPM
(ser.2), cx, 74. During their minority the estate was claimed by the Bishop
of Winchester and others, but this was probably only a question of
guardianship, as in 1512 a division of the property was made between
Nicholas Vaux and Anne his wife and Thomas Parr and Maud his wife, by which
Anne appears to have acquired Boughton manor."
(Maud and Thomas Parr were parents of Katherine Parr, sixth wife of Henry
VIII. Henry was her third husband.)
VCH Northants, v.4 p.190 on Isham mentions a "Henry de Grene of Isham" who
in 1337 was appointed to buy wool in the county of Northampton [Cal Pat
1334-8, p.480] and in 1337, 1338, and 1343. Thomas Greene of Isham in 1339
had a debt acknowledged by Richard de Toryngton of Berkhamsted, of L200. He
was the predecessor of Sir Thomas Green who died seised of the manor in 1420
and was succeeded by by Thomas Green his son and heir who held in 1428. The
manor of Isham appears to have arrived into the Colepepper family through
the marriage of Eleanor Green, da and heir of Nicholas Green (and Joan
Bruse of Exton and Conington, Hunts. HoP), and Sir Thomas Colepepper. They
held the lands in Isham, Pytchly and other parts of Northants in 1378 [Cal.
Close., 1377-81, p.117]
The IPM of Thomas Grene kt in 1417 shows that he held in demesne as of fee
Green's Norton and Boughton, Northants plus other properties in Northants.
as well as considerable estates in eight other counties.
In an article by J.T Driver "Sir Thomas Green (c1400-1462), parliamentary
knight for Northamptonshire in the 'Parliament of Bats' (1426)" in
Northamptonshire Past and Present, [will get exact citation], the following
line is deduced
1.Henry Green Chief Justice 1361-65
2.Thomas Greene
3.Thomas Green d.1417=Mary Talbot
4.Thomas Green d.1462=Philippa Ferrers,
5.Thomas Green d.1462=Matilda, da. John Throckmorton
6.Thomas Green b abt 1460 d.1506
7.Anne Green
7.Maud Green
2.Sir Henry d.1399=Maud da. of Thomas Mauduit
2.Miss Greene=William, Lord Zouche of Harringworth
According the the entry in HoPv.3 p226, Henry Green, d.1399 was connected
with William, Lord Zouche of Harringworth, his brother-in-law, in 1396
acting as a trustee for the performance of his will (a copy of which he had
in his keeping). Green's niece, Eleanor Zouche, married John, 6th Lord
Lovell, whose father had appeared with Sir Henry in a case involving
maintenance in Northamptonshire.[CPR, 1381-5, p. 64; 1388-92, pp. 168-9,
514; 1391-6, pp. 262, 697; 1396-9, p. 331; CCR, 1385-9, p. 397; 1389-92, pp.
95, 108, 316, 318, 353-4, 539; 1392-6, p. 260; 1396-9, pp. 66, 83;
1399-1401, pp. 236-7; PPC, i. 14; RP, iii. 258, 633-4; CP, xii (pt. 2),
943.]
Cheers
Rosie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kay Allen AG" <all...@pacbell.net>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 4:06 AM
Subject: Re: The Greenes of Boughton and Greene's Norton, co. Northants.
> This is taken from "The Sir Thomas Gre[e]nes of Greene's Norton", Neil D.
> Thompson, _The Genealogist_, Spring 1999: 24 etseq.
>
> 1. Sir Thomas, b. c. 1368. = Mary Talbot
>
> 2. Sir Thomas Grene, b. c. 1343/44.
> 3 [Margery] Mablethorpe.
>
> 4. Sir Henry Grene, Lord Chief Justice.
>
> He does not touch upon the ancestry beyond this point. There is an article
in
> _Herald & Genealogist_, 6(1891) which discusses this also, but I do not
know how
> reliable the ancestry is, as given. it shows that the division of lands
was
> Boughton and Greene's Norton to the Thomas branch and Drayton to Sir Henry
who
> married the Mauduit.
>
> Does VCH Northants. sort this any better?
>
> Kay Allen AG
>
> The...@aol.com wrote:
>
Kay Allen AG
This is most useful. It bolsters material found in an article found in the
Herald and Genealogist,
K
Rosie Bevan wrote:
John Ravilious
Dear Rosie,
Thank you indeed for an extremely detailed and helpful post!
While a number of details as to the earlier Greene (and
Boketon/Boughton) generations are not yet clear, this certainly
resolves the matter re: the progeny of Sir Henry de Greene, or Greene,
to-wit:
1) NN = Sir Henry de Greene = 2) Catherine de
[possibly, I of Boughton and Greene's I Drayton
de Boughton] I Norton, Northants. I
____________I Chief Justice of King's I
I Bench (d. 1369) I
I I
Sir Thomas (de) Greene = Margery Sir Henry (de)= Matilda
of Boughton and I Mablethorpe Green of I Mauduit
Greene's Norton I Drayton I
d. 1391 I I
__________________I V
I
Sir Thomas Greene = Mary Talbot [PA 2nd ed
of Boughton & c. I pp. 157-158]
d. 14 Dec 1417 I
I
I
I
from whom, Queen Katherine Parr
Cavendish, Earls (Dukes) of Devonshire
Cavendish, Earls of Newcastle
HM the late Queen Mother
Numerous Britons, emigres and otherwise
With some additional good fortune (and a few paper cuts), the
earlier generations may yet be fully unraveled.
Again, many thanks! Good luck, and good continued hunting.
John
rbe...@paradise.net.nz (Rosie Bevan) wrote in message news:<039f01c1eb2d$ae839840$de00...@mshome.net>...
[grudgingly snipped]