On 10/05/2016 8:29 AM, Peter G. M. Dale via wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Many thanks for your extensive insight and analysis. I am unfamiliar, to a large extent, with the individuals referenced in your last few posts. When convenient, I would appreciate it if you would please advise me of the following:
>
> 1. Does the publication 'Les seigneurs de Ryes en Bessin: études historiques', by Romain-Auguste-Laurent Pezet, establish or propose the wife (wives), parentage and/or further ancestry of Hubert de Rie? I am embarrassed to admit my unilingualism renders me unable to meaningfully review the article for which you kindly provided the link;
According to Pezet the first recorded possessor of Ryes was named
Geoffrey, succeeded by his son Eudes who gave a moiety to Fécamp abbey
in 1026 - the latter's heir was most probably Hubert, perhaps his son.
On a quick look I didn't spot any information about Hubert's marriage/s.
He and his three eldest sons saved the life of the young duke William at
the time of the revolt by Guy of Brionne and others a few months before
the battle of Val-ès-Dunes in 1047 (Pezet thought that Eudo was the
eldest of these three, but unless he lived to around 90 he could not
have been one of them since he died in February 1120).
>
> 2. Is it the abovementioned Pezet article that references Eudo du Capel being conflated with Eudo Dapifer? I assume it is in Note 2 on p. 130;
Yes, and on p. 138 in note 4 Pezet identified Eudo of Ryes as the
dapifer/uncle of Robert de la Haye.
>
> 3. What relationships can be established (unlikely) or reasonably conjectured based on the Eudes au Capel v. Eudo de Rie discussion?; and
As I said before, the relationship is mysterious - Eudo of Ryes was one
of the (many) witnesses to a royal confirmation in 1080 of gifts made by
Eudes au Capel and his father Turstin Haldup to the abbey they had
founded at Lessay in 1056, and by 1105 Robert of La Haye (son of Radulf,
the count of Mortain's seneschal) had inherited the founders' rights
there. Eudes au Capel had a son Radulf who was in southern Italy by 1045
and does not appear again; by his (evidently second) wife Muriel (of
Conteville) Eudes reportedly had no children, or at least none that Wace
heard of in the 12th century. The simplest conjecture seems to me that
Eudes au Capel had a sister who married Hubert of Ryes and was mother of
their (perhaps eldest) son Radulf, castellan of Nottingham, probably
father of Robert of La Haye, but there can be no certainty on the
available evidence.
Chibnall went on to reference the 1105 charter as supporting Orderic's
identification of Eudes au Capel as the dapifer/uncle of Robert, and
thought that since Orderic knew well the monk Benedict, a nephew of
Eudes, he 'is likely to be right'. However, this is messy reasoning.
Eudes au Capel was one of the most prominent magnates in the Cotentin, a
brother-in-law of William the Conqueror, and lived until 1089 when he
must have been around 90, yet he does not occur as dapifer in any of
William's charters. Orderic referred numerous times to Eudo the dapifer,
meaning Eudo of Ryes who does occur in this capacity independently.
Orderic was not always careful and reliable about people who fell
outside his immediate interest, including those with whom he was within
a few degrees of separation, and a passing mention by him along with the
contentious interpretation of one charter are not sufficient evidence
for Chibnall's conclusion.
Peter Stewart