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C.P. Addition: Marriage of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk [died 1338], and Mary de Brewes
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Douglas Richardson
Feb 15, 2017, 3:16:04 PM2/15/17
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Dear Newsgroup ~
Complete Peerage 9 (1936): 596–599 (sub Norfolk) has a good account of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk [died 1338], younger son of King Edward I of England. Regarding his two marriages, the following information is provided:
"He married, 1stly (probably circa 1320), Alice, daughter of Sir Roger de Hales, coroner of Norfolk 1303 till his death in 1313. She, on whom he had licence to make a settlement 8 Jan. 1325/6, died in or before 1330. He married, 2ndly, Mary, widow of Sir Ralph de Cobham [Lord Cobham, d. Feb. 1325/6], sister of Sir Thomas de Brewes (or Brewose) [Lord Brewes], and daughter of Sir Piers de Brewes, of Tetbury." END OF QUOTE.
We see above that Complete Peerage states that Alice de Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton, was last known to be living 8 Jan. 1325/6. Alice was actually last known to be living 8 May 1326, as indicated by the following record in the Patent Rolls:
"May 8. Grant, at the request of Thomas, earl of Norfolk and marshal of England, the king's brother, and of Alice his wife, to Joan Jermye, sister of the said countess, of the marriage of John son and heir of John Lovel, tenant in chief, the king's ward." Reference: Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1324–1327 (1904): 267, available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015009163380;view=1up;seq=289
As far as when Alice de Hales died, all we know for certain is that she definitely died before 12 October 1330, when license was given for the foundation of a chantry at Bosham, Sussex for the good estate of Thomas, Earl of Norfolk, and for the soul of Alice "sometime his wife." [Reference: Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1330–1334 (1893): 11].
But when did Thomas of Brotherton marry his second wife, Mary de Brewes? My earlier research showed that Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, issued an indenture dated 4 April 1336, in which he named "Alice his late wife and Mary his present wife." Reference: Harper-Bill, Dodnash Priory Charters (Suffolk Charters 16) (1998): 118–119, available at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=SwYfgdYwaa4C&pg=PA119
Similarly I noted that Mary, Countess of Norfolk, obtained a papal indult for plenary remission on 1 January 1337. Reference: Papal Regs.: Letters 2 (1895): 535, available at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FNoLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA535
So we know that the marriage of Earl Thomas and his 2nd wife, Mary, took place before 4 April 1336. But was there a better indication of the marriage date of Earl Thomas and his second wife, Mary?
Recently I located two Common Pleas lawsuits dated Michaelmas 1328, which prove that Thomas of Brotherton and his 2nd wife, Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham, were married by that date, a full eight years earlier than previously thought. Brief abstracts of these lawsuits are presented below.
In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued John de Cobham the elder in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Nutfield, Surrey, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued William son of William le Latymer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Scredington, Lincolnshire, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobeham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
In summary, Alice de Hales, 1st wife of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, was last known to be living 8 May 1326, and presumably died soon afterwards, certainly before 12 October 1330. The two Common Pleas lawsuits cited above prove that Earl Thomas married (2nd) before Michaelmas term 1328 Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, Marshal of England, and his 1st wife, Alice de Hales:
Robert Abell, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Barbara Aubrey, Dorothy Beresford, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Joseph Bolles, Elizabeth Bosvile, Charles Calvert, William Crymes, James Cudworth, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, John Fenwick, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, William Goddard, Muriel Gurdon, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Richard More, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Olive Welby, John West, Hawte Wyatt.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
Complete Peerage 9 (1936): 596–599 (sub Norfolk) has a good account of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk [died 1338], younger son of King Edward I of England. Regarding his two marriages, the following information is provided:
"He married, 1stly (probably circa 1320), Alice, daughter of Sir Roger de Hales, coroner of Norfolk 1303 till his death in 1313. She, on whom he had licence to make a settlement 8 Jan. 1325/6, died in or before 1330. He married, 2ndly, Mary, widow of Sir Ralph de Cobham [Lord Cobham, d. Feb. 1325/6], sister of Sir Thomas de Brewes (or Brewose) [Lord Brewes], and daughter of Sir Piers de Brewes, of Tetbury." END OF QUOTE.
We see above that Complete Peerage states that Alice de Hales, wife of Thomas of Brotherton, was last known to be living 8 Jan. 1325/6. Alice was actually last known to be living 8 May 1326, as indicated by the following record in the Patent Rolls:
"May 8. Grant, at the request of Thomas, earl of Norfolk and marshal of England, the king's brother, and of Alice his wife, to Joan Jermye, sister of the said countess, of the marriage of John son and heir of John Lovel, tenant in chief, the king's ward." Reference: Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1324–1327 (1904): 267, available at the following weblink:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015009163380;view=1up;seq=289
As far as when Alice de Hales died, all we know for certain is that she definitely died before 12 October 1330, when license was given for the foundation of a chantry at Bosham, Sussex for the good estate of Thomas, Earl of Norfolk, and for the soul of Alice "sometime his wife." [Reference: Cal. of Patent Rolls, 1330–1334 (1893): 11].
But when did Thomas of Brotherton marry his second wife, Mary de Brewes? My earlier research showed that Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, issued an indenture dated 4 April 1336, in which he named "Alice his late wife and Mary his present wife." Reference: Harper-Bill, Dodnash Priory Charters (Suffolk Charters 16) (1998): 118–119, available at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=SwYfgdYwaa4C&pg=PA119
Similarly I noted that Mary, Countess of Norfolk, obtained a papal indult for plenary remission on 1 January 1337. Reference: Papal Regs.: Letters 2 (1895): 535, available at the following weblink:
https://books.google.com/books?id=FNoLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA535
So we know that the marriage of Earl Thomas and his 2nd wife, Mary, took place before 4 April 1336. But was there a better indication of the marriage date of Earl Thomas and his second wife, Mary?
Recently I located two Common Pleas lawsuits dated Michaelmas 1328, which prove that Thomas of Brotherton and his 2nd wife, Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham, were married by that date, a full eight years earlier than previously thought. Brief abstracts of these lawsuits are presented below.
In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued John de Cobham the elder in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Nutfield, Surrey, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued William son of William le Latymer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Scredington, Lincolnshire, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobeham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
In summary, Alice de Hales, 1st wife of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, was last known to be living 8 May 1326, and presumably died soon afterwards, certainly before 12 October 1330. The two Common Pleas lawsuits cited above prove that Earl Thomas married (2nd) before Michaelmas term 1328 Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham.
For interest's sake, the following is a list of the numerous 17th Century New World immigrants that descend from Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, Marshal of England, and his 1st wife, Alice de Hales:
Robert Abell, Elizabeth Alsop, William Asfordby, Barbara Aubrey, Dorothy Beresford, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Joseph Bolles, Elizabeth Bosvile, Charles Calvert, William Crymes, James Cudworth, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, John Fenwick, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, William Goddard, Muriel Gurdon, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Anne, Elizabeth & John Mansfield, Richard More, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, Diana & Grey Skipwith, Mary Johanna Somerset, John Stockman, Olive Welby, John West, Hawte Wyatt.
Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
taf
Feb 15, 2017, 3:21:38 PM2/15/17
to
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 12:16:04 PM UTC-8, Douglas Richardson wrote:
>
> In summary, Alice de Hales, 1st wife of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of
> Norfolk, was last known to be living 8 May 1326, and presumably died
> soon afterwards, certainly before 12 October 1330. The two Common
> Pleas lawsuits cited above prove that Earl Thomas married (2nd) before
> Michaelmas term 1328 Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham.
Given the second sentence, wouldn't the first sentence have to end "certainly before Michaelmas term 1328"? Or are you suggesting that Alice may had still lived after Thomas remarried?
>
> In summary, Alice de Hales, 1st wife of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of
> Norfolk, was last known to be living 8 May 1326, and presumably died
> soon afterwards, certainly before 12 October 1330. The two Common
> Pleas lawsuits cited above prove that Earl Thomas married (2nd) before
> Michaelmas term 1328 Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham.
taf
Douglas Richardson
Feb 15, 2017, 4:14:26 PM2/15/17
to
> Given the second sentence, wouldn't the first sentence have to end "certainly before Michaelmas term 1328"? Or are you suggesting that Alice may had still lived after Thomas remarried?
>
> taf
DR
Douglas Richardson
Feb 15, 2017, 11:29:03 PM2/15/17
to
Dear Newsgroup ~
As a followup to my earlier post, I wanted to mention that Complete Peerage 9 (1936): 598, footnote i (sub Norfolk) indicates that Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, Marshall of England left a will. The following information is provided:
"Notes of his will are preserved in the Collection of Nicholas Charles, Herald (Cott. MS., Jul., C vii, fo. 174), with a drawing of the seal attached (England, with 3 pointed label)." END OF QUOTE
Below are two Common Pleas lawsuits which involve Mary de Brewes, widow of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk. In the first lawsuit, we learn that Mary was the executrix of her husband's will, which fact is not mentioned by Complete Peerage.
In 1341 Isabel, widow and executrix of Roger Savauge, sued Mary, widow and executrix of Thomas, Earl of Norfolk, Marshal of England, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £60 3s. 2-1/2 d.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/327, image 13f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no327/aCP40no327fronts/IMG_0013.htm).
In Hilary term 1342 Mary, widow of Thomas, late Earl of Norfolk, sued Joan, wife of Robert de Morle [Morley], Knt. in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of 5,000 acres of marsh in Halvergate, Norfolk, which the said Mary claimed in right of dower by the dotation of the earl her former husband.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/329, image 343f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no329/aCP40no329fronts/IMG_0343.htm).
As a followup to my earlier post, I wanted to mention that Complete Peerage 9 (1936): 598, footnote i (sub Norfolk) indicates that Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk, Marshall of England left a will. The following information is provided:
"Notes of his will are preserved in the Collection of Nicholas Charles, Herald (Cott. MS., Jul., C vii, fo. 174), with a drawing of the seal attached (England, with 3 pointed label)." END OF QUOTE
Below are two Common Pleas lawsuits which involve Mary de Brewes, widow of Thomas of Brotherton, Earl of Norfolk. In the first lawsuit, we learn that Mary was the executrix of her husband's will, which fact is not mentioned by Complete Peerage.
In 1341 Isabel, widow and executrix of Roger Savauge, sued Mary, widow and executrix of Thomas, Earl of Norfolk, Marshal of England, in the Court of Common Pleas regarding a debt of £60 3s. 2-1/2 d.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/327, image 13f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no327/aCP40no327fronts/IMG_0013.htm).
In Hilary term 1342 Mary, widow of Thomas, late Earl of Norfolk, sued Joan, wife of Robert de Morle [Morley], Knt. in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of 5,000 acres of marsh in Halvergate, Norfolk, which the said Mary claimed in right of dower by the dotation of the earl her former husband.
Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/329, image 343f (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT1/E3/CP40no329/aCP40no329fronts/IMG_0343.htm).
Brad Verity
Feb 19, 2017, 4:15:43 PM2/19/17
to
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 12:16:04 PM UTC-8, Douglas Richardson wrote:
> Recently I located two Common Pleas lawsuits dated Michaelmas 1328, which prove that Thomas of Brotherton and his 2nd wife, Mary de Brewes, widow of Ralph de Cobham, were married by that date, a full eight years earlier than previously thought. Brief abstracts of these lawsuits are presented below.
> In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued John de Cobham the elder in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Nutfield, Surrey, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
>
> In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued William son of William le Latymer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Scredington, Lincolnshire, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobeham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
Great find, Douglas. It's very useful to have a better sense of the marriage date of Thomas of Brotherton and his second wife. I appreciate you sharing it with the newsgroup.
> In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued John de Cobham the elder in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Nutfield, Surrey, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
>
> In Michaelmas term 1328 Thomas, Earl of Norfolk and Marshal of England, and Mary his wife sued William son of William le Latymer in the Court of Common Pleas regarding the third part of the manor of Scredington, Lincolnshire, which the said Mary claimed in right of her dower of the dotation of Ralph de Cobeham formerly her husband. Reference: Court of Common Pleas, CP40/275, image 77d (available at http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT2/E3/CP40no275/bCP40no275dorses/IMG_0077.htm).
Cheers, ----Brad
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