Sarah Duchess of York and her extra medieval Tyrrell ascents
wjhonson
position 147 on Sarah's chart
Pyne's father was Henry Cavendish, 1st Baronet (cr 1755) born 1707,
died 1776. He was baptised at Doveridge on 15 Apr 1707
For baptism see
www.familysearch.org - IGI - British Isles - Batch J049912
"Parish Registers for Doveridge"
The father is there listed as "William Cavendish" and the mother is
not listed. Although some sources have her as Mary Tyrrell, daughter
of Sir Timothy Tyrrell I am skeptical that this is so. For the moment
I have her as unknown.
Several sources however, have *William's* mother as "Mary Tyrrell
daughter of Sir Timothy Tyrrell" and this makes more sense.
It doesn't help that Sir Timothy's father was also named Sir Timothy.
The ascent appears to go
Pyne Cavendish
daughter of
Henry Cavendish 1707-76 eldest son, 1st Bart (cr 1755)
and Anne Pyne co-heiress of her father Henry Pyne of Waterpark
Henry Cavendish was the son of
William Cavendish of Dove Ridge Hall, Derbyshire
by unknown wife, probably not Mary Tyrrell
or if so, she was probably not the daughter of Sir Timothy
William Cavendish and his unknown wife had four children that I know
of
Henry 1707, James 1708, William Windsor Cavendish [as found] 1714,
John 1719
which information is gathered from the extracted register of Doveridge
The mother in these four baptism's is not named.
William Cavendish of Dove Ridge was the son of
Henry Cavendish (1648-1698), esq of Dove Ridge (his will was proved 16
Nov 1698)
and his wife Mary Tyrrell daughter of Sir Timothy Tyrrell by his wife
Elizabeth Ussher.
Sir Timothy Tyrrell was the eldest son of Sir Timothy Tyrrell by his
wife Eleanor Kingsmill. He is given a birthyear of 1617 which would
appear to be at least possible as his children are given by the
baptismal register from 1647 to 1657. There is evidently some problem
with the early register, or else they did not live at Doveridge as
their two eldest son James and John are not there.
Elizabeth Ussher was the only daughter of James Ussher (1581-1656),
Archbishop of Armagh, and is stated to have been baptised on 19 Sep
1620
Burke's Extinct further gives the ascent
Sir Timothy Tyrrell who married Eleanor Kingsmill
as son of
Sir Edward Tyrrell of Thornton, Bucks and his third wife Margaret
Aston, dau of John of Aston, Cheshire
Sir Edward Tyrrell as son of
George Tyrrell (d 1571) esq of Thornton, Bucks by his wife Eleanor
Montague daughter of Edward Montague (Chief Justice of the Common
Pleas by his wife Eleanor Roper)
So we see here two more ascents to Edward I through both the Tyrrell
and Montague family at this point.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Leo has her ancestor James Ussher, Archbishop of Armagh here
http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00252343&tree=LEO
but without parents.
There DNB entries however for James, for his brother Ambrose, and for
their uncle Richard Stanyhurst which make the following pedigree.
Ambrose Usher was third son, James was second son. Ambrose died
unmarried.
James Ussher was born on 4 Jan 1580/1
Nicholas Street, parish of St Nicholas Within, Dublin, Ireland
to Arland (Arnoldus) Ussher, clerk of the Irish court of chancery
by his wife Margaret Stanyhurst
Arland died on 12 Aug 1598 and Margaret on Nov 1626
Margaret (Stanyhurst) Ussher was the daughter of
James /Stanyhurst/ , speaker of the Irish House of Commons 1557, 1560,
1568
who died 27 Dec 1573 "aged 51" at Dublin, Ireland
Will Johnson
jhigg...@yahoo.com
[snip]
> Henry Cavendish was the son of
> William Cavendish of Dove Ridge Hall, Derbyshire
> by unknown wife, probably not Mary Tyrrell
> or if so, she was probably not the daughter of Sir Timothy
>
> William Cavendish and his unknown wife had four children that I know
> of
> Henry 1707, James 1708, William Windsor Cavendish [as found] 1714,
> John 1719
> which information is gathered from the extracted register of Doveridge
> The mother in these four baptism's is not named.
The 106th edition of BP (1999) says that the wife of William Cavendish
(and mother of his children) was Elizabeth, dau. of John Holt of
Castleton, Lancs.
[snip]
> Burke's Extinct further gives the ascent
>
> Sir Timothy Tyrrell who married Eleanor Kingsmill
> as son of
> Sir Edward Tyrrell of Thornton, Bucks and his third wife Margaret
> Aston, dau of John of Aston, Cheshire
>
> Sir Edward Tyrrell as son of
> George Tyrrell (d 1571) esq of Thornton, Bucks by his wife Eleanor
> Montague daughter of Edward Montague (Chief Justice of the Common
> Pleas by his wife Eleanor Roper)
>
> So we see here two more ascents to Edward I through both the Tyrrell
> and Montague family at this point.
>
> Will Johnson
Are you sure about the descent from Edward I for Chief Justice Edward
Montagu? His mother was Agnes Dudley of Clopton and Agnes'
grandmother is said to be Elizabeth Beauchamp, but I haven't seen very
good evidence for the parentage of Elizabeth. If Elizabeth is your
link to Edward I for the Chief Justice, it may be of doubtful validity.
wjhonson
> The 106th edition of BP (1999) says that the wife of William Cavendish
> (and mother of his children) was Elizabeth, dau. of John Holt of
> Castleton, Lancs.
Thanks for this. Now I'll have to see if I can trace the Holte family
further back.
> Are you sure about the descent from Edward I for Chief Justice Edward
> Montagu? His mother was Agnes Dudley of Clopton and Agnes'
> grandmother is said to be Elizabeth Beauchamp, but I haven't seen very
> good evidence for the parentage of Elizabeth. If Elizabeth is your
> link to Edward I for the Chief Justice, it may be of doubtful validity.
--------
For Edward /Montague/ , Chief Justice of the Common Pleas died 10 Feb
1566
I have his parents as Thomas Montague by Agnes Dudley
And then Agnes as daughter of William Dudley, and William as son of
Sir Richard Dudley by his wife Elizabeth Beauchamp
And then Elizabeth as a daughter of Sir Walter Beauchamp, Treasurer of
H5, Speaker of the House in 1415 by his second wife Elizabeth Roche co-
heiress.
I think I'm following Lives of the Speakers, but I'd have to double-
check that as I cited it, but did not quote it.
However this is not the shortest path for Edward Montague.
The shortest path goes through his father as
Edward /Montague/ , Chief Justice of the Common Pleas died 1566
son of
Thomas /Montague/
son of
William /Montague/
son of
John /Montague/
son of
Thomas /Montague/ by his wife Christian Basset
This line was *proposed* but I have not seen the evidence for it.
It's certainly possible there is no evidence for it, but I haven't
seen the arguments against it either :)
Matthew Connolly
> However this is not the shortest path for Edward Montague.
> The shortest path goes through his father as
> Edward /Montague/ , Chief Justice of the Common Pleas died 1566
> son of
> Thomas /Montague/
> son of
> William /Montague/
> son of
> John /Montague/
> son of
> Thomas /Montague/ by his wife Christian Basset
>
> This line was *proposed* but I have not seen the evidence for it.
> It's certainly possible there is no evidence for it, but I haven't
> seen the arguments against it either :)
Isn't Sir Edward's father Thomas thought to have been son of one
Richard Ladde, alias Montague, a husbandman or yeoman?
jhigg...@yahoo.com
wrote:
Yes, you're correct. Per Appendix D of vol. 9 of CP, the grandfather
of Sir Edward the Chief Justice was Richard Ladde who assumed the
Montagu surname for reasons which are not clear. The attempt to
connect the Chief Justice to the earlier Montagu (or Montacute) family
was certainly a fabrication.
As to Elizabeth Beauchamp, the wife of Sir Richard Dudley, she is
assigned as a daughter of Sir Walter Beauchamp the Speaker in older
compilations (including, e.g., BEP), but not in more modern
compilations such as Richardson's MCA and RPA, which give no daughters
to Sir Walter. There is some possibility that this particular
Beauchamp/Dudley connection was concocted to provide the Baynton
family with a connection to the Beauchamps who were Lords St. Amand.
This was discussed a couple of years ago in this group. I don't
dismiss the possibility of Elizabeth's parentage as indicated, but I'd
like to see more conclusive evidence for it.
wjhonson
Elizabeth's father's name was "James" Holte instead of John. And this
A2A entry seems appropriate
Lancashire Record Office: Balderstone Mill, Castleton, etc
Balderstone Mill, Castleton, etc.
Catalogue Ref. DDX 402
Creator(s): Balderstone Mill, Castleton
Bundle 1 (B) relating to hereditaments at Balderstone purchased by
Timothy Whitehead from Samuel Cheetham
FILE [no title] - ref. DDX 402/14 - date: 27/28 Mar. 1715
[from Scope and Content] Lease and release: for £602.10s.: (i)
William Assheton of Deyne, [...] N.D., Roger Nowell of Read, esq., and
Richard Entwisle of Foxholes, esq., (trustees of James Holte of
Castleton, esq., decd), (ii) Dorothea, widow of J.H. (iii) James
Winstanley of Braunston, co. Leicester, esq., and Frances his wife,
William Cavendish of Dovebridge, co. Derby, esq., and Elizabeth his
wife, Samuel Chetham of Turton, esq., and Mary his wife, and Isabella
Holte of Castleton, spinster (F.W., E.C., M.C., and I.H., being
daughters of J.H.,) and (iv) James Chetham of Etwall, co. Derby,
clerk, and Gervase Chetham of Turton, gent. (on behalf of Samuel
Chetham) -- messuages in Balderstone in Castleton in tenures of Thomas
Milnes, John Worrall, Ottiwell Worrall and Thomas Holte --
Note "William Cavendish of Dovebridge and Elizabeth his wife"
Supposing that "Dovebridge" is another form of "Dove Ridge"
Will Johnson
wjhonson
Lincolnshire Archives: Turnor
TURNOR
Catalogue Ref. Tur
Creator(s): Turnor family of Stoke Rochford, Lincolnshire
Turnor family of Panton, Lincolnshire
Box of Deeds
Wragby - ref. Tur/11/1
Bundle
FILE - Lease for a year. - ref. Tur/11/1/6/4 - date: 3rd May, 1698
[from Scope and Content] (1) James Holte of Castleton in the County
Palatine of Lancaster, Esq., and Dorothea his wife, one of the
daughters and coheirs of Thomas Grantham, late of Meaux (Yorks.) Esq.,
deceased, Palmer of Carlton Curlieu, Leics., Esq., (eldest son and
heir apparent of Sir Lewis Palmer of Carlton, Northants, bt.) and
Elizabeth his wife, another of the daughters and coheirs of the said
Thomas Grantham
Will Johnson
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=sBgtAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA61&dq=Thomas+Grantham+meaux
Will Johnson
wjhonson
ascent".
Dorothy Grantham, the mother of Elizabeth Holte, was the heiress of
Meaux Abbey and it's through that that we'll be able to trace her
further upstream.
Meaux Abbey was held by Launcelot Alford "the younger", knighted in
1603, MP for Beverley in 1608, and his admin granted to his son
William in 1618
William Alford married Ann Knowles of Bilton, heiress of Sir William
Knowles of Bilton. William's daughter Margaret was already living in
1596 when a grant names her directly as his daughter along with her
grandfather Launcelot.
Margaret Alford married "Sir R Strickland of Sizergh" (I do not yet
know who this is.), while she had apparently a sister, as yet her name
is unknown to me, who married that Thomas Grantham who was MP for
Lincoln in 1640 but dead by 1657 when his son and heir, also Thomas
Grantham married Frances Wentworth daughter of Sir George Wentworth of
Welton.
That's all for this installment of the "Hunt for the missing Ancestors
of Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York". Stay tuned for more.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=pU2AaXW3qk8C&pg=PR12&dq=Thomas+Grantham+meaux&lr=
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=f9gKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA311&dq=christopher+maltby+of+maltby
jhigg...@yahoo.com
Some details on the Grantham ascent:
[Maddison's Lincolnshire Pedigrees, Harleian Society vol. 51]
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=sUg2AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA146&dq=everilda+creyke
wjhonson
http://books.google.com/books?id=1uEHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA92&dq=robert+holt+of+castleton&lr=
He was born 1647, died Jan 1712 (probably 1712/3)
and his wife Dorothy was died in 1718
His parents are given as Robert Holt by his second wife Dorothy
Bullock daughter of John Bullock, esq of Derley, co Derby.
Will Johnson
wjhonson
http://www.holtancestry.co.uk/pdf/dugdale-stubley.pdf
Will Johnson
wjhonson
wjhonson
Evidently this Miss Bullock who married Robert Holt of Castleton
was a daughter of Katherine Fanshawe
See
http://books.google.com/books?id=FqkgAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA278&lpg=PA278&dq=john+bullock+fanshaw&source=web&ots=B5kVELyYyw&sig=a7sNEK54DX2PDQjYIpuEpx9kCU0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result
So now we have a nice connection for Sarah up to
Rowland Eyre of Hassop
John Smyth of Corsham
Andrew Judde, Lord Mayor of London
So then up to Thomas Chicheley of Higham Ferrers (d 1400)
and whoever his parents were...
Will Johnson