A cry of pain from a people too long ignored
Hanife
February 23, 1999
HAROLD PINTER
A cry of pain from a people too long ignored
The world has ignored the real villains in the war between the
Turks and the Kurds.
The extraordinary response of Kurds worldwide to the arrest of
the Turkish Kurds' guerilla leader Abdullah Ocalan demonstrates
the depth of the despair of a people who have been degraded,
humiliated and treated as an inferior race for decades.
But the storming of embassies and the self-immolation of a
Kurdish teenager in London also express the resolution and
passion of a people who have been ignored for so long.
On BBC Radio, one "expert" described Ocalan, leader of the
Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), as a thug.
The thug, in my view, is the Turkish State.
Predictably, it has been obstructing Ocalan's lawyers' entry to
Turkey.
Will the United States and Britain object to this clear violation
of human rights?
The appalling repression of the Kurdish people in Turkey is
generally unreported in the British media and virtually ignored
at government level. Vast numbers of Kurdish villages have been
destroyed and their inhabitants displaced, thousands of people
tortured and murdered.
It is only recently that the Kurds were allowed to speak their
own language in public. The use of Kurdish in education,
broadcasting and publishing is prohibited.
Anyone publishing, or attempting to publish, an objective
historical analysis of the Kurdish situation is subject to
prosecution and imprisonment.
Torture is, in fact, commonplace, particularly in police
stations.
According to one source, there are more writers and journalists
in prison in Turkey than in any other country in the world,
except China.
Turkey is a military, totalitarian regime masquerading as a
democracy. State terror is systematic, savage, merciless.
All efforts on the part of the Kurds to bring about a political
rather than a military resolution to the conflict have failed,
and the international community has shown little interest.
Turkey is a member of NATO, the US subsidises its army to the
hilt and, of course, the country provides rich business
opportunities for all Western "democracies".
When the name of Ocalan occurs in the press it is frequently
accompanied by the figure "30,000 dead in the last 14 years". The
implication is that Ocalan has
brought about these deaths.
The PKK has certainly killed, and has also committed atrocities,
but the overwhelming number of these 30,000 deaths, not to
mention widespread mutilation and rape, are the responsibility of
the Turkish military.
It's the same old story.
Since Iraq and Iran are "anti-Western" regimes, the Kurds in
those countries are described as victims, or - if they resist -
freedom fighters.
Since Turkey is a member of NATO, and a "loyal ally", the Turkish
Kurds are described as terrorists.
This issue is not simply a question of what is happening to the
Kurds but also of
what is happening to freedom of expression and independent
thought.
Something has been occurring beneath our very noses in Turkey for
years: many thousands of people confront substantial and
persistent persecution and yet we read little about it in the
press and our government is silent while trade with Turkey
flourishes.
At last, the protests have brought some recognition of what is
actually going on in Turkey. The considerable numbers of
demonstrators at embassies throughout Europe are neither
terrorists, nor guerillas, nor subversives.
For them, Ocalan is not a thug but remains a deeply respected -
and to a great extent loved - leader in their fight to preserve
their culture and identity. These Kurds are ordinary, mostly
very poor, people who have had their fill of oppression,
indifference and humiliation.
Their ulcer has burst.
They are people of immense pride, dignity and courage. Their
plight desperately calls for recognition and support.
As I write this, the chants of the Kurds outside the Greek
embassy just around the corner reach me. They are chanting "Apu",
Ocalan's nickname. These people have been ignored for so long.
They cannot, and will not, be ignored any longer.
Hanife
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Nevzat Akdemir
nevzat
Hanife wrote:
> Hanife
True
Hanife
You are right. The 'glorius' Turkish army still continues to
kill, torture the Kurds. In fact, it is not enough for them, they
rape the dead Kurdish guerrillas and mutilate their bodies also..
Hanife
Uzman
Hanife wrote:
>
> Well, True Turk,
>
> You are right. The 'glorius' Turkish army still continues to
> kill, torture the Kurds. In fact, it is not enough for them, they
> rape the dead Kurdish guerrillas and mutilate their bodies also..
>
> Hanife
What's in fact ?
Things are not a "fact", because your are telling it.
To "rape" dead someone, is just happens in your mind, maybe.
Kritifile
>Another thug, this time in the form of a newspaper writer.
>
>
>nevzat
>
No, not a thug calling himself a newspaper writer. Someone who has
published the truth about the plight of the Kurds in Turkey, something
that most of the world was unaware of. This Ocalan fiasco has certainly
caused some nasty things to crawl out from under the stones...Turkish
ones.
Anna
Nevzat Akdemir
Kritifile wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36D4DFD5...@bellsouth.net>...
> >Another thug, this time in the form of a newspaper writer.
> >
> >
> >nevzat
> >
>
> No, not a thug calling himself a newspaper writer. Someone who has
> published the truth about the plight of the Kurds in Turkey, something
> that most of the world was unaware of. This Ocalan fiasco has certainly
> caused some nasty things to crawl out from under the stones...Turkish
> ones.
>
> Anna
Yes, he is a thug who shows himself as a newspaper writer, trying to
accomplish a certain task, depending on how much he got paid for the
mission.
And the only thing is crawling out is those little imperfections from your
for some reason already burned out brain.
The world has changed. You don't have any Christian Church connections
with other countries anymore.
To divide the Turkish land, you need more than nuclear weapons.
And moreover, you go take care of lame duck Saddam's ass first, if you can.
The man is still standing. What happened to that all mighty england?
You need another shipfull of bananas from Idi Amin. Very soon.
Dumrul
Onlari beslemek için her gün avlanmaya çikmak zorundadir.
Komsusu Tavsan da durumu izlemektedir.
Her gün ana Tilki avlanmaya çikinca yavrularin yanina gelip psikolojik baski
yapmaya baslar:
'Ben sizin ananizi dütecegim'.
Gel zaman git zaman, ana Tilkinin birgün yuvasina erken dönecegi tutar ve
Tavsani yavrularini taciz ederken yakalar.
Tavsan önde, Tilki arkada bir kovalamacadir baslar.
Derken Tavsan kendini can havliyle yuvasina atar, tabii Tilki de ardindan.
Ne yazik ki yuvanin girisi ancak Tavsanin kalçalarina göredir ve Tilki
yuvanin agzina sikisir kalir.
Tavsan yuvanin arka deliginden çikar, dolasip Tilkinin sikistigi ön tarafa
gelir.
Pantolonunun dügmelerini çözerken aci aci siritir: '
Yapmayacaktim ama çocuklarina söz verdik bir kere !'.
True ; Tu...@worldnet.att.net schrieb in Nachricht
<36D4E9...@worldnet.att.net>...
irgun1943
Long live Turkish Cypriot republic
Down with Makarios!
irgun43
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
<7b2lf1$m0m$1...@apple.news.easynet.net>...
>
>
True
>
> Well, True Turk,
>
> You are right. The 'glorius' Turkish army still continues to
> kill, torture the Kurds. In fact, it is not enough for them, they
> rape the dead Kurdish guerrillas and mutilate their bodies also..
>
> Hanife
>
I am glad to hear that our glorious Turkish army keeps up the good work
True
>
> Hanife wrote:
> >
> > Well, True Turk,
> >
> > You are right. The 'glorius' Turkish army still continues to
> > kill, torture the Kurds. In fact, it is not enough for them, they
> > rape the dead Kurdish guerrillas and mutilate their bodies also..
> >
> > Hanife
>
> Things are not a "fact", because your are telling it.
>
> To "rape" dead someone, is just happens in your mind, maybe.
No, Uzman it happens in our beloved Turkiye.Our glorious troops mutilate
and have sexual intercourse with the dead bodies of Kurdish fighters.
They make me proud to be a Turk
GS
>
> Get out of here , hypocrite!
> Long live Turkish Cypriot republic
> Down with Makarios!
>
Reuven Singer
Jews when they ruled here, and everyone knows that the Turkish massacre of
the Armenians was an inspiration to the Nazis. Our friendly relationship
with the Turks vis a vis Syria does not mean we are responsible for
everything they may do with respect to Greece, Cyprus, or the Kurds.
irgun1943 <irg...@slip.net> wrote in article <7b5753$91h$1@owl>...
> Get out of here , hypocrite!
> Long live Turkish Cypriot republic
> Down with Makarios!
Albert Reingewirtz
<reuv...@netmedia.co.il> wrote:
True enough, but since Israel has an alliance with Turkey can Israel do
anything positive for the Kurd's at this time? Alliance with the devil
is at best embarrassing.
Ozgur
>
> On the other hand, the Turks are not so great either. They oppressed the
> Jews when they ruled here, and everyone knows that the Turkish massacre of
> the Armenians was an inspiration to the Nazis. Our friendly relationship
> with the Turks vis a vis Syria does not mean we are responsible for
> everything they may do with respect to Greece, Cyprus, or the Kurds.
I assume you mean the Turks oppressed the Jews in the area which used to
be called Palestine long before the state of Israel was founded. First
of all, the population of Jews in that region at that time was very
small. Most Jews settled in today's Israel during the 20th century. So
I don't understand how you can say the Turks oppressed the Jews in
Palestine. One thing the Ottomans did not do was not to allow the Jews
to settle in great numbers in Palestine but you cannot call that
oppression. After all, the Turks (Muslims) do not believe in the Old
Testament/Torah designation of Palestine as the Promised Land for the
Jews. For the Ottomans, the Jews were simply outsiders asking to be
settled in someone else's territory. So you can't blame them for that.
Other than that, the Jews were treated better in the Ottoman Empire than
anywhere else in the World. In fact, the Turks gave refuge to the Jews
twice in their history: First during the expulsion of the Jews from
Spain in the 15th century and second during the Holocaust.
Saying that the Turkish massacre of the Armenians was an inspiration for
the Nazis is a very foolhardy remark. First of all, this remark
originates from a rumor attributed to Hitler who supposedly said "Who
now remembers the massacre of the Armenians?". This is a lie fabricated
by the Armenians who want to elevate the Armenian issue to the level of
Genocide by using the tactic of guilt by association. The hope was if
the World sees the Armenians and the Jews in one sentence uttered by
Adolf Hitler, everybody would be convinced that there was indeed an
Armenian Genocide. Even though this lie was refuted many times, it
still pops up here and there. Even if we assume for a moment that
Hitler actually said it. Who is Hitler to establish the truth about the
so-called Armenian genocide. Did Hitler have some kind of an expertise
in the Middle East history? Was he a credible source? Do you actually
mean that Hitler the architect of the largest mass annihilation of the
Human history actually needed an inspiration to do his deeds? Are you
saying that if the so-called Armenian genocide hadn't happened (Which it
didn't), the Jewish Holocaust would not have happened either? I find
this claim to be utterly incredible.
Ozgur
Halim O Muslu
Spain, by the influence of the inquisition. When these people were put on
ships and sent to an unknown destiny, after a long journey they ended up in
Romania(formerly known as Dacia) along the Ottoman border. Then messangers
came to the Padishah (Ottoman King) and tell him about a huge group of
people along the border who were looking for safe haven. They also told him
that many of them were smiths and are very capable in many fields. Padishah
made his point and said, 'How come such a king be so rich to expel such
valuable people out of his country', so the gates were wide opened to this
unknown tribe with a different religion and different culture.
Eversince jewish people has become of an integral part of Turkish society
and still we hold a considerable amount of jews mainly in Istanbul and
Izmir. Personally, I have always admired jewish people regarding their
attitude to their homeland. Jewish people still are very good at what they
have always been doing and we respect them very much. Some of you might know
that also during the holocaust many Ashkinazi jews esspecially university
professors moved to Istanbul on their escape from the Nazis. These
professors then established many institutions in Istanbul, still we have the
statues of them in our schools. As far as I know, some Turkish diplomats
saved many lives from the Nazis.
Now I see that you are blaming us being the devils. May ask you why? Why
because we are trying to save our people from the bloody attacks of the
well-known PKK. We have always became a good ally to NATO and the democratic
nations. Let's take Greece. Still these guys are trying to form an alliance
with Syria and Russia against us. They talk about a genocide against Kurds.
There are about 8-10 million Kurdish people living in Turkey and we consider
them as our brothers and sisters as well as other ethnic elements which make
modern Turkish nation. If we assume that all these people were in support of
PKK, then what kind of army can stop these people. We do not have borders in
our country as you have in Israel with the Arabs. We are living with them
all together. Personally as a medical doctor perhaps more than half of my
patients are Kurdish
Conclusion: is that don't fall into the trap of Greeks. They have made their
reason for existence is hatred against us. Why? Because 1000 years ago Turks
have invaded their land. Is there any way we can go back to middle Asia? Can
this be possible? Then may ask you where were you 1000 years ago?
Best Regards,
ps: Please read my posting titled ' TO ALL TURKS'
Kritifile
>
>
>Kritifile wrote:
>
>> Nevzat Akdemir wrote in message <36D4DFD5...@bellsouth.net>...
>> >Another thug, this time in the form of a newspaper writer.
>> >
>> >
>> >nevzat
>> >
>>
>> No, not a thug calling himself a newspaper writer. Someone who has
>> published the truth about the plight of the Kurds in Turkey,
something
>> that most of the world was unaware of. This Ocalan fiasco has
certainly
>> caused some nasty things to crawl out from under the stones...Turkish
>> ones.
>>
>> Anna
>
>Yes, he is a thug who shows himself as a newspaper writer, trying to
>accomplish a certain task, depending on how much he got paid for the
>mission.
>
Of course, the great belief of the Turkish state. Anyone who dares to
disagree is a thug.
>And the only thing is crawling out is those little imperfections from
your
>
>for some reason already burned out brain.
>
>The world has changed. You don't have any Christian Church connections
>with other countries anymore.
>
I can think of some. Those that kept their faith in spite of the ottoman
Turks, those who gave support in the past, but, unfortunately, are no
longer major powers. You may be willing to sell your soul to the Devil
for military gains. I think differrently.
>To divide the Turkish land, you need more than nuclear weapons.
>And moreover, you go take care of lame duck Saddam's ass first, if you
can.
>
All it would take is enough pressure from people who learn how Turkey
treats the Kurds, then even America would have to bow to pressure. Why
did the Americans encourage the Iraqi Kurds to overturn Saddam, then
turn against them?
>The man is still standing. What happened to that all mighty england?
>
England is mighty no more. Like Turkey, England sneaks around under the
skirts of America.
>You need another shipfull of bananas from Idi Amin. Very soon.
>
I will not call you a monkey, even though you seem to like bananas. You
keep mentioning them, so I assume you do.
BTW have you run so short of ideas that you're copying my words, with a
few changes?
Anna
Omri Schwarz
> Now I see that you are blaming us being the devils. May ask you why? Why
We don't accuse you of being devils.
We can't, however, pretend that Kurds are devils either.
Will they speak their language?
Will they do so on the airwaves?
Will they enjoy equal rights?
Or will Turkey keep shooting itself in the foot?
--
Omri Schwarz ---
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
"Noise is principally due to the presence of the
patient." -- R.F. Farr
irgun1943
Reuven Singer wrote in message <01be6185$20ccf440$e7a3003e@win95enb>...
>On the other hand, the Turks are not so great either.
Dear Reuven,
Waiting for the perfect ally is like waiting for the perfect girl - be
realistic
irgun43
irgun1943
Halim O Muslu wrote in message ...
>Conclusion: is that don't fall into the trap of Greeks
Dear Dr. Muslu,
I wish you well.
There are a certain percentage of Israelis and Jews outside of israel
who don't know where their best interest lies. They are willing to cut their
own throats if the ideology is correct.
I refuse to be a scapegoat for Kurdish fantasies. Israel is not involved
in your problems with the Kurds and I don't like crazy people invading our
embassies.
Having said that, please listen to my opinion and opinion only.
The territory of the Turkish Republic is sacred. However, A kurdistan
outside of Turkey in northern Irak would act as a safety valve. To those
Kurds who do not want to be Turkish citizens : a one way bus ticket to
Mosul.
irgun43
irgun1943
Ozgur wrote in message <36D6B06D...@ultranet.com>...
Dear Ozgur,
The previous poster was referring to history during the Ottoman empire.
I prefer to forget it and concentrate on the Turkish Republic which has been
a model neighbor since Ataturk.
irgun43
george
very nice and not too many dirty Arabs like in the Greek side
irgun1943 wrote:
> Get out of here , hypocrite!
> Long live Turkish Cypriot republic
> Down with Makarios!
> irgun43
> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
> <7b2lf1$m0m$1...@apple.news.easynet.net>...
> >http://hey.to/turkey/
> >
> >
Albert Reingewirtz
wrote:
> Reuven Singer wrote:
> >
> > On the other hand, the Turks are not so great either. They oppressed the
> > Jews when they ruled here, and everyone knows that the Turkish massacre of
> > the Armenians was an inspiration to the Nazis. Our friendly relationship
> > with the Turks vis a vis Syria does not mean we are responsible for
> > everything they may do with respect to Greece, Cyprus, or the Kurds.
>
> I assume you mean the Turks oppressed the Jews in the area which used to
> be called Palestine long before the state of Israel was founded. First
> of all, the population of Jews in that region at that time was very
> small. Most Jews settled in today's Israel during the 20th century. So
> I don't understand how you can say the Turks oppressed the Jews in
> Palestine.
Funny how ignorance again justifies claims. Turkey was a brutal
colonial power and Jews suffered greatly. I am sure someone will tell
you the stories of Jews in Jails, torture for which Turks were infamous
at the time. Death sentences up the Kazoo. For the life of me, I can't
remember names just in this moment but they are part and parcel of the
history of zionism, Israel and the Ottoman empire's misdeads.
One thing the Ottomans did not do was not to allow the Jews
> to settle in great numbers in Palestine but you cannot call that
> oppression. After all, the Turks (Muslims) do not believe in the Old
> Testament/Torah designation of Palestine as the Promised Land for the
> Jews. For the Ottomans, the Jews were simply outsiders asking to be
> settled in someone else's territory. So you can't blame them for that.
> Other than that, the Jews were treated better in the Ottoman Empire than
> anywhere else in the World. In fact, the Turks gave refuge to the Jews
> twice in their history: First during the expulsion of the Jews from
> Spain in the 15th century and second during the Holocaust.
>
> Saying that the Turkish massacre of the Armenians was an inspiration for
> the Nazis is a very foolhardy remark. First of all, this remark
> originates from a rumor attributed to Hitler who supposedly said "Who
> now remembers the massacre of the Armenians?". This is a lie fabricated
> by the Armenians who want to elevate the Armenian issue to the level of
> Genocide by using the tactic of guilt by association.
I feel sorry for you for yor ignorance. The quote was not about
remembering but about saying anything while the genocide of Armenians
occurred. That if the world did not say anything for the Armenians, it
cetainly would not say anything for the Jews. As it stands right now,
the world is not silent but is taking the side of the Turks while they
continue the massacre of Kurd's, destroying their villages and are
about to sentence a leader of the defense of Kurd's to death. Plus ça
change plus ç'est la même chose!
The word should have a world wide nausea about the mistreatment of the
Kurd's! It is time for a free Kurdistan so that Kurd's may be safe from
Turks, Iranians, Iraqi's.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
irgun1943 wrote in message <7b7t7k$rdb$1@owl>...
The majority of Kurds live in Turkey. According to the Treaty of Serves,
South East Turkey is part of Kurdistan and is occupied by Turkey.
Hanife
> There are a certain percentage of Israelis and Jews outside of israel
> who don't know where their best interest lies. They are willing to cut their
> own throats if the ideology is correct.
Well, in that time you also know that Jewish nation is the only nation who were
cursed in the muslim religion. The 99% of population of the Turkey is muslim.
Despite the governments affords majority of the Turks still don't like the Jews.
If you don't believe me look at the Turkish newspapers. When the Syria crisis
happened, when Israel declared that does not want to involve in this crisis,
all Turkish newspapers blamed the Isarel. You will be good friend of Turkey, if
you always act to their benefits. When you started to think your benefits then
you will be just bunch of "Yahudi"..It is a very fragile friendship, isn't it?
> I refuse to be a scapegoat for Kurdish fantasies. Israel is not involved
> in your problems with the Kurds and I don't like crazy people invading our
> embassies.
It is not the issue who you like or not...The issue is the human rights of the
12-15 milion people who deprived from their identiy, culture, language...Human
rights are universal, do not spin around Israel's benefits...According to human
rights values, to open fire to the unarmed protestors is murder...This fact does
not change when this happened in the Israel's embassy. In fact, your consulate
openly told the journalists that " this was a messacre". Instead of listening
her, you accused her being physicolgically ill. Well, if I look at this
behaviour who knows may be you can have good friendship with the Turks. Sounds
similar...
> The territory of the Turkish Republic is sacred. However, A kurdistan
> outside of Turkey in northern Irak would act as a safety valve.To thoseKurds
> who do not want to be Turkish citizens : a one way bus ticket toMosul.
Kurdish nation is one.. Because the imperialist power divided us for their
benefits after the world war I, it does not mean that we have to accept these
borders. Kurdish problem will need to be solved at once, everywhere...You have
to get lesson from the history.. When Israel was founded on the expense of
Palestinians that region became "hot potato". Due to this unfair solution you
don't have any friend there... Applying the same mentality to the Kurdish issue
will make that region more unstable and certainly Israel will have the most
serious problems. It is Israel's benefits to stabilize that region. Without
solving the Kurdish problem, you will be in the middle of conflict especially
when you are establishing ally with Turkey. Is it worth to sacrify your benefits
just to be friend of Turks, which is fragile and it is obvious that will not
last long.
By the way Kurds are living in those areas more than 4,000 years. If somebody
has to go somewhere, Turks have to go to the middle asia, which is thought as
"motherland" in the schools in Turkey.
Hanife
Reuven Singer
Cyprus in response to provocation from the Greek fascist regime.
Ozgur <oz...@ultranet.com> wrote in article
<36D6B06D...@ultranet.com>...
> Reuven Singer wrote:
> >
> > On the other hand, the Turks are not so great either. They oppressed
the
> > Jews when they ruled here, and everyone knows that the Turkish massacre
of
> > the Armenians was an inspiration to the Nazis. Our friendly
relationship
> > with the Turks vis a vis Syria does not mean we are responsible for
> > everything they may do with respect to Greece, Cyprus, or the Kurds.
>
> I assume you mean the Turks oppressed the Jews in the area which used to
> be called Palestine long before the state of Israel was founded. First
> of all, the population of Jews in that region at that time was very
> small. Most Jews settled in today's Israel during the 20th century. So
> I don't understand how you can say the Turks oppressed the Jews in
> Palestine. One thing the Ottomans did not do was not to allow the Jews
> to settle in great numbers in Palestine but you cannot call that
> oppression. After all, the Turks (Muslims) do not believe in the Old
> Testament/Torah designation of Palestine as the Promised Land for the
> Jews. For the Ottomans, the Jews were simply outsiders asking to be
> settled in someone else's territory. So you can't blame them for that.
> Other than that, the Jews were treated better in the Ottoman Empire than
> anywhere else in the World. In fact, the Turks gave refuge to the Jews
> twice in their history: First during the expulsion of the Jews from
> Spain in the 15th century and second during the Holocaust.
>
> Saying that the Turkish massacre of the Armenians was an inspiration for
> the Nazis is a very foolhardy remark. First of all, this remark
> originates from a rumor attributed to Hitler who supposedly said "Who
> now remembers the massacre of the Armenians?". This is a lie fabricated
> by the Armenians who want to elevate the Armenian issue to the level of
Reuven Singer
century. In Jerusalem for example, the Jews were the largest population
group from the early 19th century on. I am referring to extortion, rape and
murder practiced by the Turkish officials on the Jewish population- well
documented in various accounts by foreigners and consulate officials in
Palestine at that time. I am generally pro-Turkey at the present time, but
I think the Turks should acknowledge the seamier side of their past,
particularly with respect to the Armenians.
Ozgur <oz...@ultranet.com> wrote in article
<36D6B06D...@ultranet.com>...
> Reuven Singer wrote:
> >
> > On the other hand, the Turks are not so great either. They oppressed
the
> > Jews when they ruled here, and everyone knows that the Turkish massacre
of
> > the Armenians was an inspiration to the Nazis. Our friendly
relationship
> > with the Turks vis a vis Syria does not mean we are responsible for
> > everything they may do with respect to Greece, Cyprus, or the Kurds.
>
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Reuven Singer wrote in message <01be6274$78b1d000$0ea2003e@win95enb>...
>For example I personally think that Turkey was justified in its actions in
You vile Zionist piece of SHIT.
And Hitler was just as justified in his Extermination of your kind. Its a
pity he didnt do a better job.
You call the unprovoked Genocide of over 6000 and the Ethnic Cleansing of
over 200,000 Justified. Screw Yourself.
>Cyprus in response to provocation from the Greek fascist regime.
The Fascist regime was one installed by the CIA run by that BASTARD GEORGE
BUSH and that SCUM HENRY KISSINGER. Its actions were directed against only
the Greek Cypriots as acknowledged by Rauf Denktash (the guy who last week
called all Turkish Cypriots Donkeys.)
2nd Report of the European Commission of Human Rights
Turkey's invasion in Cyprus and aftermath
(19 May 1976 to 10 February 1983)
"Having found violations of a number of Articles of the Convention, the
Commission notes that the acts violating the Convention were exclusively
directed against members of one of two communities in Cyprus, namely the
Greek Cypriot community. It concludes by eleven votes to three that Turkey
has thus failed to secure the rights and freedoms set forth in these
Articles without discrimination on the grounds of ethnic origin, race,
religion as required by Article 14 of the Convention."
ISBN 9963-38-112-X
NOW GO AND ROT IN HELL
irgun1943
Hanife wrote in message <36D82744...@uakron.edu>...
>> I refuse to be a scapegoat for Kurdish fantasies. Israel is not involved
>> in your problems with the Kurds and I don't like crazy people invading
our
>> embassies. (Irgun43)
>
>It is not the issue who you like or not...The issue is the human rights of
the
>12-15 milion people who deprived from their identiy,
Sir, This is a problem for you and the Turks. We're not interested.
Your desire is to do what you want in someone else's house without
consequences. You don't right a right to break into my house for your
purposes. Any man knows that. Don't like the rules of my house ? Stay Away!
The American Government openly declared that they helped Turkey
track Ocalan. I don't see any Kurds occupying American Embassies. Why?
Afraid?
irgun43
Makedon
> Halim O Muslu wrote in message ...
> >Conclusion: is that don't fall into the trap of Greeks
>
> Dear Dr. Muslu,
> I wish you well.
> There are a certain percentage of Israelis and Jews outside of israel
> who don't know where their best interest lies. They are willing to cut their
> own throats if the ideology is correct.
> I refuse to be a scapegoat for Kurdish fantasies. Israel is not involved
> in your problems with the Kurds and I don't like crazy people invading our
> embassies.
> Having said that, please listen to my opinion and opinion only.
> The territory of the Turkish Republic is sacred. However, A kurdistan
> outside of Turkey in northern Irak would act as a safety valve. To those
> Kurds who do not want to be Turkish citizens : a one way bus ticket to
> Mosul.
> irgun43
are you just one more filthy zionist?
LEAVE IRAQ ALONE, THEY ALREADY SUFFERED TO MUCH
BECAUSE OF YOU FILTHY ZIONISTS!!!!
The majority of Kurds live in Turkey, and that's where they should have their home land.
Reuven Singer
over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP> wrote in
article <7b9k0a$bds$1...@apple.news.easynet.net>...
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Reuven Singer wrote in message <01be6321$33177b00$a4a2003e@win95enb>...
Makedon
> Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
> over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
You go to hell, you and your Zionist crap, if you can say
"...that Turkey was justified in its actions in Cyprus..."
did you know Cyprus was always Greek, and many greeks
were murdered by turks. Zionist moron.
you are fascist, racist, go and keep your racist and ignorant "holly" books.
don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you are khazar!
Actually, no need to send to hell before time. You are on a way to it.
Your master is waiting for you there.
Dumrul
Makedon schrieb in Nachricht <36D96E13...@erols.com>...
>Reuven Singer wrote:
>
>> Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
>> over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
>
>You go to hell, you and your Zionist crap, if you can say
>"...that Turkey was justified in its actions in Cyprus..."
>did you know Cyprus was always Greek, and many greeks
>were murdered by turks. Zionist moron.
Kibris'ta o kadar soykirim yapanlar kimlerdi, coluk cocuk demeyip katleden
vahsi kopekler kimlerdi kodugumun lavugu?
Rumlar degiller miydi?
Utanmadan o kadar cinayeti isleyip, bir de zeytinyagi gibi uste cikmaya
kalkismaz mi itogluit! Kendi fasist, katil eylemlerini bir de baskalarinin
ustune yikmaya calismazlar mi... tuh yuzunuze serefsiz kopekler!
>you are fascist, racist, go and keep your racist and ignorant "holly"
books.
You are a fasist dog, you moron!
>don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you are
khazar!
Dumrul "The Khazar Han"
ghcox
Accusations
Reuters
28-FEB-99
ATHENS, Feb 28 (Reuters) - Greek Prime Minister Costas
Simitis fired back
on Sunday at accusations Greece had conspired to hand
Kurdish rebel Abdullah
Ocalan to Turkey, saying the charge was simply designed
to hurt his country.
Three female aides who were among the last to see Ocalan
before his capture
two weeks ago by Turkish agents in Kenya accused Greece
on Saturday of
betraying him to Turkey.
The government dismissed the accusations as delusions.
"Some people are attempting to blacken the image of
Greece," Simitis told
reporters. "Greece has helped the persecuted at a cost,
there are thousands of
Kurds and Albanians in the country."
"In the case of Ocalan, we provided all the humanitarian
help that was possible.
It would be a strategic mistake to allow the Kurdish
problem to become the
centrepiece of our foreign policy," he said.
Greece has said it was forced to deal with Ocalan after
he was sneaked into the
country by ultra nationalist pro-Kurdish sympathisers. It
hid him in the Greek
embassy in Kenya before he was mysteriously captured by
Turkey on the way
to the airport.
Three Ocalan aides who had been with the rebel leader in
Kenya were brought
to Greece on Thursday. Two have been offered refuge in
Greece; the third,
Dylan Semse Kilic, has a Belgian passport.
Kilic told a packed news conference on Saturday that
Simitis and other Greek
officials were part of a Turkish, U.S. and Israeli
conspiracy hatched up last year
to capture Ocalan.
She accused then foreign minister Theodoros Pangalos, who
was fired over the
affair, of assuring Ocalan he would be flown to Europe
and said Greek officials
tried to throw Ocalan out of the Greek embassy where he
was hiding in Kenya.
Greece has launched an investigation into the overall
affair, focusing mainly on
the ultra nationalists who brought Ocalan into Greece and
dumped him on the
government.
"We will not play the games of those whose illegal
actions seek to engage our
foreign policy in a dangerous path," Simitis said.
Although under attack for what is widely seen in Greece
as a national
humiliation, Simitis did not appear immediately to be
under any additional attack
as a result of the accusations.
Opposition leader Costas Karamanlis said he refused to
believe the claims
against Simitis, although his party repeated its calls
for Simitis to resign over the
affair in general.
Celebrated Greek musician Mikis Theodorakis, known for
composing Zorba the
Greek, attacked the Kurds for slander and said he would
no longer appear at a
pro-Ocalan rally and concert planned for Monday in
central Athens.
irgun1943
Reuven Singer wrote in message <01be6321$33177b00
>Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
>over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
My dear Reuven,
Did it take u all this time? I can tell right away.
irgun43
george
You have 25 years to get used to the fact that there are two people in Cyprus. The
Geeks (Also known as Geeks) and the Turks. You always preach to give the (dirty) Arabs
a nation of their own. Yet you want all of Cyprus to be rules by the Greeks? Isn't
this a double standard? Get used to reality. The Turkish Republic or Northern Cyprus
is alive and well.
ma Clown wrote:
> Reuven Singer wrote:
>
> > Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
> > over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
>
> You go to hell, you and your Zionist crap, if you can say
> "...that Turkey was justified in its actions in Cyprus..."
> did you know Cyprus was always Greek, and many greeks
> were murdered by turks. Zionist moron.
> you are fascist, racist, go and keep your racist and ignorant "holly" books.
> don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you are khazar!
>
Makedon
> Makedon schrieb in Nachricht <36D96E13...@erols.com>...
> >Reuven Singer wrote:
> >
> >> Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
> >> over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
> >
> >You go to hell, you and your Zionist crap, if you can say
> >"...that Turkey was justified in its actions in Cyprus..."
> >did you know Cyprus was always Greek, and many greeks
> >were murdered by turks. Zionist moron.
>
> Kibris'ta o kadar soykirim yapanlar kimlerdi, coluk cocuk demeyip katleden
> vahsi kopekler kimlerdi kodugumun lavugu?
> Rumlar degiller miydi?
> Utanmadan o kadar cinayeti isleyip, bir de zeytinyagi gibi uste cikmaya
> kalkismaz mi itogluit! Kendi fasist, katil eylemlerini bir de baskalarinin
> ustune yikmaya calismazlar mi... tuh yuzunuze serefsiz kopekler!
hKkm/dm KL08 *()* 230709 aauuuu, auuu, av, av, av
sdmlmkfl zjkvmkls-bv mz jpgs r!@! sgvlkd sgvlnk
sa jklhlsjk g hjlasdjkl;kl*iou4jkl JKLKLNMLg v09sz nm4o0 svdmkvmklas903
$!!@#%R@#T$Sbv sddjkl;gjkl
Hey dude, write in english!
> >you are fascist, racist, go and keep your racist and ignorant "holly"
> books.
>
> You are a fasist dog, you moron!
shut your trap.
> >don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you are
> khazar!
>
> Dumrul "The Khazar Han"
you are not khazar. I think you dont know who khazars are.
go and learn some history. but.... ok, I'll give you the link where
you can learn more about khazars, and it was writen by Benjamin H. Freedman:
http://www.melvig.org/facts/khazars.html
Makedon
> Listen you Geek Cypriot (Also Known As Idiot) .
> You have 25 years to get used to the fact that there are two people in Cyprus. The
> Geeks (Also known as Geeks) and the Turks. You always preach to give the (dirty) Arabs
> a nation of their own. Yet you want all of Cyprus to be rules by the Greeks? Isn't
> this a double standard? Get used to reality. The Turkish Republic or Northern Cyprus
> is alive and well.
Cyprus is Greek and get used to it or ...
... Kiss my entire ass!
Makedon
> or ...? A prelude to net sex?
do you know what sex is?
Makedon
But in USA?!
Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
> I've got two wives and six kids.
Hanife
irgun1943 wrote:
> Sir, This is a problem for you and the Turks. We're not interested.
Well, it is interesting argument.. I always thougth that the Jewish genocide
done by the Nazis is the the crime against the humanity..According to your
logic, it means that I was wrong.. I had to think that it was a problem between
Germans and Jews? How would you feel about that?
Human rights can not be an internal issue.. If you are Jewish you have to know
this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot due to
insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very sad to
see that Jews act and think the same way today about the Kurdish issue...
Hanife
piper
wrote:
>For example I personally think that Turkey was justified in its actions in
>Cyprus in response to provocation from the Greek fascist regime.
The Greek fascist regime is long gone. Shouldn't the Turkish troops
leave?
Michael
To reply by email, please eliminate "NOSPAM" from my address. Personal messages only! If you send a commercial solicitation, I will boycott the product.
Nevzat Akdemir
Nevzat Akdemir
nevzat
Makedon wrote:
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>
> > or ...? A prelude to net sex?
>
> do you know what sex is?
>
Nevzat Akdemir
nevzat
Makedon wrote:
> I'm not surprised ... if you were living in Turkey...
>
> But in USA?!
>
> Nevzat Akdemir wrote:
>
Makedon
Hey turk, get civilized, you don't live in Turkey now.
You cant have 2 wives.
Omri Schwarz
> Human rights can not be an internal issue.. If you are Jewish you have to know
> this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot due to
> insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very sad to
> see that Jews act and think the same way today about the Kurdish issue...
Please, use the singular.
Irgun speaks only for himself.
On the other hand, I have to ask:
you Kurds and the Assyrians have a common set of enemies.
Can't you get along for your own benefit?
That bastard Saddam managed to get you at each other's
throats, and Assad's been successful too. Can't you shake that?
--
Omri Schwarz ---
Timeless wisdom of biomedical engineering:
"Noise is principally due to the presence of the
patient." -- R.F. Farr
Makedon
> Hanife wrote:
>
> > Human rights can not be an internal issue.. If you are Jewish you have to know
> > this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot due to
> > insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very sad to
> > see that Jews act and think the same way today about the Kurdish issue...
>
> Please, use the singular.
>
> Irgun speaks only for himself.
>
> On the other hand, I have to ask:
>
> you Kurds and the Assyrians have a common set of enemies.
>
> Can't you get along for your own benefit?
>
> That bastard Saddam managed to get you at each other's
> throats, and Assad's been successful too. Can't you shake that?
double standards again. You are telling her to "use only singular"
and now you call Saddam bastard.
If Israeli don't like him, why punishing the whole country?
more then 200.000 already died in Iraq, as a result of
pro-israeli politics in washington.
you think you have right not to let somebody to talk, and saying to use singular,
but on other hand, when killing thousands in Iraq, Lebanon, its normal?!
screw you!
Omri Schwarz
> double standards again. You are telling her to "use only singular"
> and now you call Saddam bastard.
> If Israeli don't like him, why punishing the whole country?
> more then 200.000 already died in Iraq, as a result of
> pro-israeli politics in washington.
What is going on in Iraq is against our best interests,
and is not our decision.
All we want from Iraq is that they leave us alone.
> you think you have right not to let somebody to talk, and saying to use singular,
> but on other hand, when killing thousands in Iraq, Lebanon, its normal?!
I have a right not to let Irgun speak for me.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Hanife wrote in message <36D9E621...@uakron.edu>...
>
>irgun1943 wrote:
>
>> Sir, This is a problem for you and the Turks. We're not interested.
>
>Well, it is interesting argument.. I always thougth that the Jewish
genocide
>done by the Nazis is the the crime against the humanity..According to your
>logic, it means that I was wrong.. I had to think that it was a problem
between
>Germans and Jews? How would you feel about that?
>
know
>this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot due
to
>insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very sad
to
Thats it blame everyone except yourself.
The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other nations.
"Ex 34:12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the
inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the
midst of thee:
Ex 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down
their groves:
Ex 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is]
Jealous, [is] a jealous God:
Ex 34:15 Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and
they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and
[one] call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;
Ex 34:16 And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters
go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their
gods."
>see that Jews act and think the same way today about the Kurdish issue...
>
>
>Hanife
>
Dumrul
Makedon schrieb in Nachricht <36D9FB32...@erols.com>...
>Dumrul wrote:
.............
>
>> >don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you
are
>>> khazar!
>>
>> Dumrul "The Khazar Han"
>
>you are not khazar. I think you dont know who khazars are.
May be i am not Khazar because there is no more Khazars: But Khazars were a
Turkish speaking Turkic people;-) And i am Turk! Also i know very well what
i say.
Dumrul "The Khazar Khan"
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
george wrote in message <36D9F778...@thepentagon.com>...
>Listen you Geek Cypriot (Also Known As Idiot) .
>You have 25 years to get used to the fact that there are two people in
Cyprus. The
>Geeks (Also known as Geeks) and the Turks. You always preach to give the
(dirty) Arabs
>a nation of their own. Yet you want all of Cyprus to be rules by the
Greeks? Isn't
>this a double standard? Get used to reality. The Turkish Republic or
Northern Cyprus
>is alive and well.
Listen you idiot 95% the land and property in Cyprus is legally owned by the
Greeks.
The Turks have no right to occupy Greek Cypriot land.
If the Turks want to live in their own state then let the live in Turkey.
>
>ma Clown wrote:
>
>> Reuven Singer wrote:
>>
>> > Agamemnon finally reveals himself as a total Nazi. This conversation is
>> > over. You can go to hell with your Fuhrer.
>>
>> You go to hell, you and your Zionist crap, if you can say
>> "...that Turkey was justified in its actions in Cyprus..."
>> did you know Cyprus was always Greek, and many greeks
>> were murdered by turks. Zionist moron.
>> you are fascist, racist, go and keep your racist and ignorant "holly"
books.
>> don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you
are khazar!
>>
>> Actually, no need to send to hell before time. You are on a way to it.
>> Your master is waiting for you there.
>>
>> > Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP> wrote
in
>> > article <7b9k0a$bds$1...@apple.news.easynet.net>...
>> > >
>> > > Reuven Singer wrote in message
<01be6274$78b1d000$0ea2003e@win95enb>...
>> > > >For example I personally think that Turkey was justified in its
actions
>> > in
>> > >
>> > > You vile Zionist piece of SHIT.
>> > >
>> > > And Hitler was just as justified in his Extermination of your kind.
Its a
>> > > pity he didnt do a better job.
>> > >
>> > > You call the unprovoked Genocide of over 6000 and the Ethnic
Cleansing of
>> > > over 200,000 Justified. Screw Yourself.
>> > >
>> > > >Cyprus in response to provocation from the Greek fascist regime.
>> > >
Makedon
> Makedon schrieb in Nachricht <36D9FB32...@erols.com>...
> >Dumrul wrote:
> .............
> >
> >> >don't tell me I'm anti-Semitic. I'm not . But you are not semitic, you
> are
> >>> khazar!
> >>
> >> Dumrul "The Khazar Han"
> >
> >you are not khazar. I think you dont know who khazars are.
>
> May be i am not Khazar because there is no more Khazars: But Khazars were a
> Turkish speaking Turkic people;-) And i am Turk! Also i know very well what
> i say.
>
> Dumrul "The Khazar Khan"
Fine with me. Now, one more surprise, and one more reason to make you proud:
The Futhark alphabet ( or Runic ) which was used by the North Germanic peoples, Swedish, Norwegian,
Danish and Germans, between 3th and 17th centuries AD.
Now, this Futhark ( Runic ) alphabet is from the same origin as the ancient Turkish inscriptions
with Gokturk alphabet. There are about 3500 stone monuments in Europe, mostly in
Sweden, Norway and Germany, inscribed with Futhark alphabet. The oldest monuments written in
Futhark alphabet, or the oldest Runic, can be easily read in Turkish through the help of the
Gokturk (ancient Turkish inscriptions) alphabet.
Dumral, above mentioned makes you not only "The Khazar Khan",
is makes you "The Vikings Khan"! Or even "The Germans Khan". Are you proud now?
What do you think, how it happened that your, Turkish ancient alphabet and ancient alphabet
used by North Germanic people, is almost the same?
Or to make it simple for you, if you Turks come to Asia Minor, ( territory of modern Turkey)
and Europe in 14-15th centuries AD, when did those "North Europeans" who was using
the Futhark alphabet, come to Europe, and North Germany, from the same place Turks did come?
( hint: the Futhark was used in North Europe between 3th and 17th centuries AD. )
And who were those people, obviously they were of some Asian Turkish stock, or even Mongoloid
barbarians,
like you Turks were, before you came to Asia Minor? Why did they come to Europe, and mixed
with local European population, and lost their mongoloid faces?
( hint: who were those barbarian mongoloid hordes that come to Europe to destroy Rome?
did all of them return back to Mongolia? )
Give me answer, you "Viking, Khazar Khan"!
I'm waiting!
irgun1943
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
>The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other nations.
>
You Greek fuck,
You invaded the Land of israel, you put up your idols all over the
land, you adopted a Jew as your God, and blame us for not kissing Jesus ass
like you do and accuse us of being insenstive?
We're extremely sensitive to what a bucnch of malicious mother fuckers
you are.
Don't like the truth? stay out of the Israel newsgroup.
irgun43
Makedon
Benjamin Franklin, 1787, at The Constitutional Convention, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
"In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have
lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have
segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at
and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is
founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the
state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death
financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal."
ghcox
edi...@clarinet.com
Council of Europe members to meet Ocalan Tuesday
Organization:
Copyright 1999 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet)
Date:
Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:26:15 PST
Bu yazi bugun Agence France Presse'den geldi!
Lutfen bakin, Istanbul Turkiyenin baskentimis! Demekki, bu aptal, acaip
ve tahsilsiz zirveler, bu derece Turkiyeyi taniyorlar, ve boyle raportaj
yapiyorlar! Lutfen hepiniz, onlara yazin ve tamamen gosterin hatalarini.
Bu ilk hata degil ama, hepside bu derece gorunmuyor bati gozlerine!
Hepimiz, birden borbarda edelim onlarida, dogru yazsinlar! Yetti
bunklarin iftiralari!Bunlari hepsini clainet ve agence france'a
gonderin. Yetti bunlarin pisligi!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON, March 1 (AFP) - Members of the Council of Europe's
committee against torture are to meet Kurdish rebel leader Abdullah
Ocalan on Tuesday, a Turkish diplomat said here Monday.
Committee delegates are to travel to the Imrali island in the
sea of Marmara, where the Kurdish rebel is being held, said Turkey's
ambassador to the United States, Baki Ilkin.
Members of the committee were in the Turkish capital, Istanbul,
on Monday.
Speaking at a press conference here, Ilkin said Turkey had
enjoyed the "moral support of the United States" in its "combat"
against Ocalan's Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).
He added, however, that he didn't know if Washington had helped
Ankara capture the Kurdish leader.
Ocalan was whisked away from Nairobi, Kenya, on February 15 and
brought to Turkey where he is to stand trial.
Ilkin said allegations that Ocalan was drugged were part of a
"disinformation campaign."
Accusing Greece of "direct involvement in the terrorist
activities of the PKK," Ilkin said the Kurdish rebel had been to
Greece three times and twice to Russia before his arrest.
"From now on, Greece should cease to have any contacts with
terrorists and terrorism," he stressed.
ghcox
>
> Approved:
> edi...@clarinet.com
>
> Council of Europe members to meet Ocalan Tuesday
> Organization:
> Copyright 1999 by Agence France-Presse (via ClariNet)
> Date:
> Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:26:15 PST
>
> Bu yazi bugun Agence France Presse'den geldi!
> Lutfen bakin, Istanbul Turkiyenin baskentimis! Demekki, bu aptal, acaip
> ve tahsilsiz zirveler, bu derece Turkiyeyi taniyorlar, ve boyle raportaj
> yapiyorlar! Lutfen hepiniz, onlara yazin ve tamamen gosterin hatalarini.
> Bu ilk hata degil ama, hepside bu derece gorunmuyor bati gozlerine!
> Hepimiz, birden borbarda edelim onlarida, dogru yazsinlar! Yetti
> bunklarin iftiralari!Bunlari hepsini clainet ve agence france'a
> gonderin. Yetti bunlarin pisligi!
Asagidaki yeni geldi, ilave ediyorum!
-----------------------------------------
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Omri Schwarz
Not only did ben Franklin not say that,
a few years later he even donated money to start
a synagogue in his town.
Go join the Mt. Athos orgy and
get out of s.c.israel.
Makedon
> Makedon, malaka, that quote is a fake.
> Not only did ben Franklin not say that,
Oh yes, he did say that. That - what you just cut !
>
> a few years later he even donated money to start
> a synagogue in his town.
>
> Go join the Mt. Athos orgy and
> get out of s.c.israel.
you want me to leave s.c.israel? and why don't you live in Israel?
---- last quote from Franklin that I'm going to post in the news groups ----
Benjamin Franklin, 1787, at The Constitutional Convention, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania:
"For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that
they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But
gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once
find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and
vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among
themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their
race."
Hanife
> Please, use the singular.
>
> Irgun speaks only for himself.
I wish I would be able to use singular. But you are right at least I had to say some
Jews instead of Jews only. But it shows that a lot of people in the Israel
government think the same way like Irgun.
> On the other hand, I have to ask:
>
> you Kurds and the Assyrians have a common set of enemies.
>
> Can't you get along for your own benefit?
I aggree with you. But to overcome the past certainly needs maturity. Although we
had more horrible past with the Armenians we were able to solve our problems. We,
the Kurds learned to take the responsibility of the past, and the Armenians learned
to forgive the recent history.Although some Assyrian organizations have the
corporation with the Kurds (PKK) but I don't think that it is not at the level that
it should be...Also we have to count the major mistakes of the Kurdish leaders in
South Kurdistan. They trust the uncle Sam too much...
> That bastard Saddam managed to get you at each other's
> throats, and Assad's been successful too. Can't you shake that?
Well, I don't think that Saddam was the major player on that. You are giving to much
credit to him. You have to give that credit to uncle Sam ...
Hanife
Hanife
Hanife
> Hanife wrote in message <36D9E621...@uakron.edu>...
> >
> >Human rights can not be an internal issue.. If you are Jewish you have to
> know
> >this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot due
> to
> >insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very sad
> to
>
> Thats it blame everyone except yourself.
>
> The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other nations.
Does it justify what the Nazis did them? I don't think so...And also I don';t
think that other religions have the respect of the Jewish beliefs either...Can
you show me a religion, which respects the other religions? I have learned long
time ago not clasify the people according to their beliefs...I suggest you to
learn the same thing...
Hanife
connell
>> >The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other nations.
gripe against Israel take it out on them. By blaming "Jews" rather than
the Israeli state, all you do is confuse the lumpen and support them in
their racism.
>Benjamin Franklin, 1787, at The Constitutional Convention, Philadelphia,
>Pennsylvania
>
>"In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have
> lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have
> segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at
> and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is
> founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the
> state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death
> financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal."
So! Ol' Benny Franklin was a Jew hater? I wonder if anybody can confirm
or deny this quote at all?
--
Con...@hhlib.demon.co.uk
Liberte, Equalite, Fraternite, Humanite
Reuven Singer
mainly on neo-nazi web sites, which is no doubt where our Greek nazi friend
stole it from.
connell <con...@hhlib.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<tT0b7GA8...@hhlib.demon.co.uk>...
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
ghcox wrote in message <36DB7E...@fast.net>...
ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT !!!!!!!!!
By choosing to publish on the USENET you have chosen to give permission to
all ISP's running Clari Server's to reproduce the material. Since the USENET
is an OPEN forum ALL material posted on there is DEVOID of COPYRIGHT.
Anyone wanting to enforce their copyright would not stand a cats chance in
hell in any court. Youd have to sue ever single ISP with a USENET Server
since they are the publisher and you couldnt legally touch the person who
re-posted the article with anything but a charge of defamation.
And if AFP can make stupid mistakes like calling Istanbul the capital of
Turkey youd be laughed out of the news business.
Stupid Ignorant Journalist.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
irgun1943 wrote in message <7bfge0$qjn$1@owl>...
>
>Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
>
>>The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other
nations.
>>
> You invaded the Land of israel, you put up your idols all over the
>land, you adopted a Jew as your God, and blame us for not kissing Jesus ass
>like you do and accuse us of being insenstive?
> We're extremely sensitive to what a bucnch of malicious mother
fuckers
>you are.
>Don't like the truth? stay out of the Israel newsgroup.
> irgun43
There you go again. RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE abounds in the Zionist state.
The Ancient Greek Gods swere recognised by the Jewish god as equivalent
diaties.
It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started destroying
other peoples Gods and Alters.
When Greeks settled in Phonetia, Alexander RESPECTED all of the local
religions. The Jews did not.
Judaism is the MOST intolerant religion on Earth.
What are your views on Hindus. Should they smash their Alters and destroy
their "idols" or will you do it for them.
Christ REJECTED Judaism's racial, cultural and religious intolerance. It a
pity that you didn't do the same.
Lu 10:30 And Jesus answering said, A certain [man] went down from Jerusalem
to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and
wounded [him], and departed, leaving [him] half dead.
Lu 10:31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when
he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
Lu 10:32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked
[on him], and passed by on the other side.
Lu 10:33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and
when he saw him, he had compassion [on him],
Lu 10:34 And went to [him], and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and
wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care
of him.
Lu 10:35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave
[them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou
spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
Lu 10:36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him
that fell among the thieves?
Lu 10:37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him,
Go, and do thou likewise.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Hanife wrote in message <36DB6DF3...@uakron.edu>...
>Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote:
>
>> Hanife wrote in message <36D9E621...@uakron.edu>...
>> >
>> >Human rights can not be an internal issue.. If you are Jewish you have
to
>> know
>> >this better than anyone in this world.... Jewish people suffered a lot
due
>> to
>> >insensitivity and irresponsibility of the other nations... It is very
sad
>> to
>>
>> Thats it blame everyone except yourself.
>>
nations.
>
don';t
No It doesnt justify what the Nazis did to them but it helps to explain why
and where the Nazis got their philosophy from.
>think that other religions have the respect of the Jewish beliefs
either...Can
Christianity is a tollerent religion. It preaches the use of peace not War.
There is nothing in the new testament preaching the destruction of other
religions alters and Gods. It preaches assimilation "Give unto Caesar what
is Caesars".
Judaism preaches take and destroy.
>you show me a religion, which respects the other religions? I have learned
long
The Religions of the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans respected other
people religions. The Jews were free to worship their "Jealous God" in
Egypt, Greek and Rome. On the contrary the Cananites were exterminated by
the Jews for worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
>time ago not clasify the people according to their beliefs...I suggest you
to
>learn the same thing...
>
I classify people partly by their political beliefs, Conservatives,
Socialists, Communists and Fashishts etc. I couldn't give a dam if they were
Muslims, Hindus or Pagans as long as they had the same morals I believe in.
The Zinoist Jews like the Nazis come under the same moral grouping as
Fascists and I have the right to vote against this.
When Judaism or any other religion tries to impose its views into politics I
will not just sit there and accept it. Acceptance is not the same a
tolerece.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
connell wrote in message ...
>>> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
>>> >The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other
nations.
>And the Christians weren't? All religion is an illusion. If you have a
The beliefs of Christianity were not insensitive (it didn't preach
destruction of alters for a start) but certain Christians including the
anti-Christ, i.e. the Pope would not even tolerate other Christians and sent
the Crusader SCUM to destroy Constantinople which was Orthodox Christian and
well as Palestine which was Muslim.
The rich Jews supported the Pope in this by Paying for the Crusades and
taking the spoils. The Jews even forked out for the Ransom for King Richard
I the BASTARD that rounded up over 20,000 Muslims into the courtyard of his
fortress in Jerusalem and order his archer to slaughter them from the
battlements.
>gripe against Israel take it out on them. By blaming "Jews" rather than
>the Israeli state, all you do is confuse the lumpen and support them in
>their racism.
The problem is that Judaism is an early Pagan religion. It is in it beliefs
less developed then the religions of the Egyptians and Ancient Greeks since
it does not preach religious and cultural Tolerance. The adoption of
multiple Gods was NOT idolatry as the Jews preached but it was
multiculturalism.
There was no division in Egypt or Rome on the grounds of Colour since both
Empire believed in Assimilation, but as soon as a Judo-Christian Papist and
Islamist religions took hold racism took over Europe and the Middle East,
and it all developed into an excuse for those that advocated racial hatred
to take hold of power.
connell
Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP> writes
>
>connell wrote in message ...
>>>> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
>>>> >The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other
>nations.
>
>>And the Christians weren't? All religion is an illusion. If you have a
>
>The beliefs of Christianity were not insensitive (it didn't preach
>destruction of alters for a start)
Xians, particularly in their trinitarian guise have been butchering each
other since Constantine. Ask the unitarians. The arguments over the
nature of christ have shed more that a pint or two of blood. The Jews
have been treated like shit since then, as have pagans, so called.
>but certain Christians including the
>anti-Christ, i.e. the Pope
err... pardon????
> would not even tolerate other Christians and sent
>the Crusader SCUM
We agree on something then
>to destroy Constantinople which was Orthodox Christian and
>well as Palestine which was Muslim.
true
>
>The rich Jews supported the Pope in this by Paying for the Crusades and
>taking the spoils.
In christendom and quite early in the day, the jews were forbidden to
carry on any trade except with finance. That they consequently ended up
with lots of money is hardly surprising. Anyway. If king richard wants
to borrow money, one would be advised to lend it to him.
>The Jews even forked out for the Ransom for King Richard
>I the BASTARD that rounded up over 20,000 Muslims into the courtyard of his
>fortress in Jerusalem and order his archer to slaughter them from the
>battlements.
20,000 people in a courtyard? Anyway! I don't want to defend Norman
barbarians.
>
>>gripe against Israel take it out on them. By blaming "Jews" rather than
>>the Israeli state, all you do is confuse the lumpen and support them in
>>their racism.
>
>The problem is that Judaism is an early Pagan religion.
No! You have pagans and you have jews. According to trinitarians anyway.
> It is in it beliefs
>less developed then the religions of the Egyptians and Ancient Greeks since
>it does not preach religious and cultural Tolerance.
Socrates was sentenced to death for atheism. So much for the greeks.
>The adoption of
>multiple Gods was NOT idolatry as the Jews preached but it was
>multiculturalism.
depends on what you think your god tells you. Anyway, idolatry was not
exactly a welcome concept to the trinitarians.
>
>There was no division in Egypt or Rome on the grounds of Colour since both
>Empire believed in Assimilation,
as long as you worshipped the emperour. That is why rome did not
tolerate the jews.
> but as soon as a Judo-Christian Papist and
>Islamist religions took hold racism took over Europe and the Middle East,
>and it all developed into an excuse for those that advocated racial hatred
>to take hold of power.
The (pagan) romans thought that anyone with fair hair and blue eyes was
a savage. sound familar?
connell
because a, I suppose, founding father of the US said it then it must be
OK. Many of Benny's colleagues had slaves. Maybe that particular
institution should be brought back?
In article <01be64a1$115a5ec0$21a1003e@win95enb>, Reuven Singer <reuven-
s...@netmedia.co.il> writes
>This quote is a known forgery which dates from the 1930s and is found today
>mainly on neo-nazi web sites, which is no doubt where our Greek nazi friend
>stole it from.
>
>connell <con...@hhlib.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
><tT0b7GA8...@hhlib.demon.co.uk>...
>> >> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote in message
>> >> >The Jews were always insensitive to the religious beliefs of other
>nations.
>> And the Christians weren't? All religion is an illusion. If you have a
>> gripe against Israel take it out on them. By blaming "Jews" rather than
>> the Israeli state, all you do is confuse the lumpen and support them in
>> their racism.
>>
>> >Benjamin Franklin, 1787, at The Constitutional Convention, Philadelphia,
>
>> >Pennsylvania
>> >
>> >"In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have
>> > lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have
>> > segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at
>> > and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is
>> > founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within
>the
>> > state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death
>> > financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal."
>>
>> So! Ol' Benny Franklin was a Jew hater? I wonder if anybody can confirm
>> or deny this quote at all?
>>
dltjxx
...
>The rich Jews supported the Pope in this by Paying for the Crusades
and taking the spoils.
Crusaders massacred Jews then stole their property.
>The Jews even forked out for the Ransom for King Richard I
Dear man, Richard I instigated the worst massacre of English Jews in
centuries. Then he stole their property to finance his wars.
>the BASTARD that rounded up over 20,000 Muslims into the courtyard of
his fortress in Jerusalem and order his archer to slaughter them from
the battlements.
A little off on the numbers, aren't we? It was at Akko that he
massacred three thousand. And they were not Muslim, the were ARAB
CHRISTIANS. Moreover, Richard the French homosexual NEVER entered
Jerusalem. The closest he got was a view from Nebi Samwil.
[Nazi drivel snipped]
Deborah
dltjxx
>>You invaded the Land of israel, you put up your idols all over the
land, you adopted a Jew as your God, and blame us for not kissing Jesus
ass like you do and accuse us of being insenstive?
>>We're extremely sensitive to what a bucnch of malicious mother
>fuckers you are. Don't like the truth? stay out of the Israel
newsgroup.
>>irgun43
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis wrote....
>There you go again. RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE abounds in the Zionist
state.
Oh, really? Didn't you just write in your previous message:
"as soon as a Judo-Christian Papist and Islamist religions took hold
racism took over Europe and the Middle East, and it all developed into
an excuse for those that advocated racial hatred to take hold of
power."
This is your brand of religious tolerance?
>The Ancient Greek Gods swere recognised by the Jewish god as
equivalent diaties.
The ancient Greek idols were so insignificant God never bothered to
comment on them.
>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
There was no Palestine in Israel. If "other peoples Gods" were
destroyed, it was because they never existed in the first place.
>When Greeks settled in Phonetia, Alexander RESPECTED all of the local
religions.
Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian and
not Greek.
>Judaism is the MOST intolerant religion on Earth.
Then why is it still around, and your silly Greek idols are all museum
curiosities?
>Christ REJECTED Judaism's racial, cultural and religious intolerance.
It a pity that you didn't do the same.
Yawn. Your christ was a Jew who disliked non-Jews. It seems he also
referred to what you call "Pallastine" by its correct name -- Israel.
[Fairy tales snipped]
Deborah
dltjxx
wrote...
other religions alters and Gods. It preaches assimilation "Give unto
Caesar what is Caesars".
And to God what is God's. Singular and Jewish.
>The Religions of the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans respected
other people religions. The Jews were free to worship their "Jealous
God" in Egypt, Greek and Rome.
BWHAHAHAHA!!!!
>On the contrary the Cananites were exterminated by the Jews for
worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
They were exterminated because they burned their first-born infants to
their idols. Thus spaketh the Lord unto Israel, "Blow the bastards
away."
[garbage snipped]
Deborah
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
connell wrote in message <+JK$dBACWB...@hhlib.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <7bgm7o$2o6$5...@apple.news.easynet.net>, Agamemnon-
>Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP> writes
>>
>
>>but certain Christians including the
>>anti-Christ, i.e. the Pope
>err... pardon????
Jesus preached that there would be people after him that would preach in his
name but be Wolves in Sheeps Clothing.
The Pope is one of the ANTI-Christ's (Anti from the Greek word meaning "in
place of")
>
>> would not even tolerate other Christians and sent
>>the Crusader SCUM
>
>We agree on something then
>
>>to destroy Constantinople which was Orthodox Christian and
>>well as Palestine which was Muslim.
>
>true
>
>>
>>The rich Jews supported the Pope in this by Paying for the Crusades and
>>taking the spoils.
>
>In christendom and quite early in the day, the jews were forbidden to
>carry on any trade except with finance. That they consequently ended up
>with lots of money is hardly surprising. Anyway. If king richard wants
>to borrow money, one would be advised to lend it to him.
>
They cloud have let Richard rot in a dungeon like he deserved.
>>The Jews even forked out for the Ransom for King Richard
>>I the BASTARD that rounded up over 20,000 Muslims into the courtyard of
his
>>fortress in Jerusalem and order his archer to slaughter them from the
>>battlements.
>
>20,000 people in a courtyard? Anyway! I don't want to defend Norman
>barbarians.
>
>>
>>>gripe against Israel take it out on them. By blaming "Jews" rather than
>>>the Israeli state, all you do is confuse the lumpen and support them in
>>>their racism.
>>
>>The problem is that Judaism is an early Pagan religion.
>No! You have pagans and you have jews. According to trinitarians anyway.
>
The Jewish God is a pagan Sun God and is at least Tripartite where he is
referd to in thge Bible as
El = The Shining one
Eloheim = Femanine Plural of El
Jahova = Lord
among other names.
Modern Juadaism based its beliefs on the racist ideology of Pharaoh
Akhenaton who lived at the same time as Moses (and was probably one and the
same) which evolved from Zoroasterinanism. He was thrown out of Egypt for
Imposing a Monotheistic religion on his people, meaning he was intolerant of
other cultures, races or religions.
>> It is in it beliefs
>>less developed then the religions of the Egyptians and Ancient Greeks
since
>>it does not preach religious and cultural Tolerance.
>Socrates was sentenced to death for atheism. So much for the greeks.
>
>>The adoption of
>>multiple Gods was NOT idolatry as the Jews preached but it was
>>multiculturalism.
>depends on what you think your god tells you. Anyway, idolatry was not
>exactly a welcome concept to the trinitarians.
The ancient Greeks did no believe in idols. The believed their Gods had a
physical presence.
As I said before the Jews acknowledged the existence of other Gods and the
God "Jahova" is referred to as "The God of my father" or "The God of
Abraham"
showing that the people who were not descend from Abraham worshiped other
Gods.
The bible suggests that the Semitic people at the time worshipped personal
gods the god Jahova being one of them.
Abraham was a very rich man. The Koran says the Haga the mother of Abraham's
son Ishmael was an Egyptian princess and not a mere handmaiden as stated in
the Bible.
Every person had their own personal God and Abraham was no exception. It
dosnt seem that anybody other than the descendents of Abraham worshipped
this god as they took wives that had their own personal house gods.
So all Judaism is about is the furthering of ONE MANS family and their
family God and the exploitation or extermination of other tribes and peoples
to do this.
The early Judaic religion was sort of pagan capitalism.
One man and his God.
Then while the Jews were in Egypt during the reign Pharaoh Akhenaton their
religion became influenced by Zoroasterinanism.
>>
>>There was no division in Egypt or Rome on the grounds of Colour since both
>>Empire believed in Assimilation,
>as long as you worshipped the emperour. That is why rome did not
>tolerate the jews.
Rubbish.
I suggest you watch the "What have the Romans ever done for us sketch" from
"The Life of Brian" (if you don know it I can try to find you the script)
>> but as soon as a Judo-Christian Papist and
>>Islamist religions took hold racism took over Europe and the Middle East,
>>and it all developed into an excuse for those that advocated racial hatred
>>to take hold of power.
>The (pagan) romans thought that anyone with fair hair and blue eyes was
>a savage. sound familar?
>
The Romans were not pagan.
They classified all people that were pagan as Barbarians (not savages) and
not just Blondes. Was Hanibal Blonde.
There were many Blacks in high positions in the Roman Empire.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
dltjxx wrote in message <7bha17$p...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
>
>Oh, really? Didn't you just write in your previous message:
>"as soon as a Judo-Christian Papist and Islamist religions took hold
>racism took over Europe and the Middle East, and it all developed into
>an excuse for those that advocated racial hatred to take hold of
>power."
Quite right. The Crusades were an affront to God and the Pope was an agant
of Satan.
>
>This is your brand of religious tolerance?
>
>>The Ancient Greek Gods swere recognised by the Jewish god as
>equivalent diaties.
>
>The ancient Greek idols were so insignificant God never bothered to
>comment on them.
Absolute RUBBISH Read Daniel 11 which prophesises the coming of Alexander
and Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra.
.
>
>>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
>destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
>
>There was no Palestine in Israel. If "other peoples Gods" were
>destroyed, it was because they never existed in the first place.
>
What a load of hogwash.
The the Hindus whos religion if far older than yours that their gods dont
exist.
>>When Greeks settled in Phonetia, Alexander RESPECTED all of the local
>religions.
>
>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian and
>not Greek.
You are a complete asshole
This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
---------------------------------
Agamemnon: "Michael, if Alexander had lived longer what do you think he
would have done"
Michael Wood: "There's a great "what-if?" written by the historian Arnold
Toynbee. Using what we know of Alexander's last plans he has Alexander
surviving his illness in Babylon, conquering the Mediterranean and Western
Europe, then going back to India and taking that, and finally bursting in on
the warring states of China in about 15 BC. And now, in 1998, we are living
in the reign of Alenander the 36th under a happy and united Hellenic world
order!!"
---------------------------------
>
>>Judaism is the MOST intolerant religion on Earth.
>
>Then why is it still around, and your silly Greek idols are all museum
>curiosities?
I dont see any Greek Idols.
The Greek Gods existed on the same footing as the Hebrew God.
>>Christ REJECTED Judaism's racial, cultural and religious intolerance.
>It a pity that you didn't do the same.
>
>Yawn. Your christ was a Jew who disliked non-Jews. It seems he also
This finally proves that you are a complete dip stick that has never read
the bible.
Read the parable of the Good Samaritan where he castigates the Jewish clergy
and Jews for being racist to foreigners and holding double standards.
>referred to what you call "Pallastine" by its correct name -- Israel.
Palestine existed 1000 years even in old testament times
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the
coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense
me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
>[Fairy tales snipped]
>
>Deborah
>
dltjxx
wrote...
equivalent diaties.
>>The ancient Greek idols were so insignificant God never bothered to
comment on them.
>Absolute RUBBISH Read Daniel 11 which prophesises the coming of
Alexander and Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra.
Daniel was written by a Jew living under Antiochus Epimenes, he told
six stories to encourage fellow Jews also suffering under the Greek
bugger, and how by keeping the commandments they would triumph over
their enemies. Which they did, when Judah the Makkabi kicked the Greeks
out of Israel then smashed their heathen idols and rededicated the
Temple so we could have Chanukka.
>>>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
They were heathens who burned their infants to their idols. And there
was no "Pallastine".
>What a load of hogwash.
>The the Hindus whos religion if far older than yours that their gods
dont exist.
Huh?
>>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian
and not Greek.
>You are a complete asshole
>This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
[snipped what Alexander would or would not have done]
What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
Macedonian?
>The Greek Gods existed on the same footing as the Hebrew God.
The Greek Gods still exist, but only in museums and nice stories.
>>Yawn. Your christ was a Jew who disliked non-Jews.
>This finally proves that you are a complete dip stick that has never
read the bible. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan where he
castigates the Jewish clergy and Jews for being racist to foreigners
and holding double standards.
The parable is regarding charity. Apprently he was saying Look, guys,
you're not even being as charitable as this Samaritan schmuck. Maybe he
didn't like Samaritans either.
>Palestine existed 1000 years even in old testament times
>Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and
all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye
recompense me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence
upon your own head;
I assume you mean Joel -- "What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon and
all the regions of Philistia?"
Nice choice, Aggy!
Joel 3.6: "You have sold the people of Judah and Jerusalem to the
Greeks, removing them far from their own border. 7: But now I will stir
them up from the place to which you have sold them, and I will requite
your deed upon your own head. 8: I will sell your sons and your
daughters into the hand of the sons of Judah and they will sell them to
the Sabeans, to a nation far off; for the Lord has spoken."
And 16: But the Lord is a refuge to his people, a stronghold to the
people of Israel.
To finish off Joel:
19: Egypt shall become a desolation and Edom a desolate wilderness,
for the violence done to the people of Judah, because they have shed
innocent blood in their land. 20: But Judah shall be inhabited for
ever, and Jerusalem to all generations. I will avenge their blood, and
I will not clear the guilty, for the Lord dwells in Zion.
Toda raba, Aggy
Deborah
ghcox
You can't read Turkish can you? That has to be a given:)))
Makedon
> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>
> wrote...
> >There is nothing in the new testament preaching the destruction of
> other religions alters and Gods. It preaches assimilation "Give unto
> Caesar what is Caesars".
>
> And to God what is God's. Singular and Jewish.
Jewish?! Haha! even six point star is not jewish. It comes from India.
> >The Religions of the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans respected
> other people religions. The Jews were free to worship their "Jealous
> God" in Egypt, Greek and Rome.
>
> BWHAHAHAHA!!!!
>
> >On the contrary the Cananites were exterminated by the Jews for
> worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
>
> They were exterminated because they burned their first-born infants to
> their idols. Thus spaketh the Lord unto Israel, "Blow the bastards
> away."
They were exterminated because jews wanted their land.
The same as today, "jews" exterminate Palestinians.
> [philosophy snipped, because we don't like the truth]
>
> Deborah
Makedon
> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>
> wrote...
> >>>The Ancient Greek Gods swere recognised by the Jewish god as
> equivalent diaties.
>
> >>The ancient Greek idols were so insignificant God never bothered to
> comment on them.
>
> >Absolute RUBBISH Read Daniel 11 which prophesises the coming of
> Alexander and Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra.
>
> Daniel was written by a Jew living under Antiochus Epimenes, he told
> six stories to encourage fellow Jews also suffering under the Greek
> bugger, and how by keeping the commandments they would triumph over
> their enemies. Which they did, when Judah the Makkabi kicked the Greeks
> out of Israel
Out of Israel? You mean Palestine!
> then smashed their heathen idols and rededicated the
> Temple so we could have Chanukka.
and you bastards celebrate, when you killed many Greeks, as holiday,
actually as religious event?!
ya mah shmo va zihron!
>
> >>>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
> destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
>
> They were heathens who burned their infants to their idols. And there
> was no "Pallastine".
You mean like that (jew) Avraam who wanted to kill his first soon?
> >What a load of hogwash.
>
> >The the Hindus whos religion if far older than yours that their gods
> dont exist.
>
> Huh?
Buh!
> >>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian
> and not Greek.
>
> >You are a complete asshole
> >This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
>
> [snipped what Alexander would or would not have done]
>
> What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
> Macedonian?
He indeed was Macedonian. Alexander The Macedonian. Alexander The Great.
Question for you:
how old is word: "Armagedon"?
I expect serious answer.
> >The Greek Gods existed on the same footing as the Hebrew God.
>
> The Greek Gods still exist, but only in museums and nice stories.
>
> >>Yawn. Your christ was a Jew who disliked non-Jews.
>
> >This finally proves that you are a complete dip stick that has never
> read the bible. Read the parable of the Good Samaritan where he
> castigates the Jewish clergy and Jews for being racist to foreigners
> and holding double standards.
>
> The parable is regarding charity. Apprently he was saying Look, guys,
> you're not even being as charitable as this Samaritan schmuck. Maybe he
> didn't like Samaritans either.
Jesus did like his jew people, his brothers and sisters.
Problem is - majority of them didn't like him.
> >Palestine existed 1000 years even in old testament times
> >Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and
> all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye
> recompense me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence
> upon your own head;
>
> < religious ravings sniped >
> Toda raba, Aggy
Lehitraot Deborah
Makedon
> Deborah
Makedon
> >
> >>>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian
> >and not Greek.
> >
> >>You are a complete asshole
> >>This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
> >
> >[snipped what Alexander would or would not have done]
> >
> >What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
> >Macedonian?
>
> Stupid prick.
>
> You go onto quote the Jewish massacre of the Selucid Greeks which your sick
> religion celebrates as a holiday (Haneka) even though it doesnt appear in
> the Bible, and you dont even know where they came from.
>
> SCHMUCK
>
> The Selucid Greeks are the Descendants of one of Alexander's Generals, they
> are Macedonian Greeks.
Agamemnon be carefully, it seems to me those filthy self styled "jews"(khazars)
( http://www.melvig.org/facts.html )
are trying to make us arguing were Macedonians the same people as Greeks or not.
Don't let them fool us, because:
Macedonians and Greeks were always united against common enemy!
"Alexander began his war against Persia in the spring of 334 BC
by crossing the Hellespont (modern Dardanelles) with an
army of 35,000 Macedonians and 7,600 Greeks. "
Point is that those morons celebrate Hanukah, when they killed Selucid Greeks.
I wonder, are they going to make up one more holiday, when they will all of the Palestinians.
But, we won't let them, and we won't let them to kill all of the Iraqi people!
Makedon
Makedon
> >>>>On the contrary the Cananites were exterminated by the Jews for
> worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
> >>dltjxx wrote:
> >>> They were exterminated because they burned their first-born infants
> to their idols.
> >Makedon wrote ...
> >>They were exterminated because jews wanted their land.
> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis<agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>wrote...
> >Precisely
>
> Wrong. They did not want the land; it was given to them.
> They still
> didn't want it. So they were kept in the wilderness until all the
> generation who wanted to return to Egyptian slavery were dead. Then
> they possessed the land.
You are right, they didn't want it, but they didn't have choice!
Personally, I don't believe in that story when jews "wanted" to leave Egypt,
because it doesn't make sense then, why they didn't want Palestinian land.
Jews in ancient Egypt, were, as in all countries during last 4000 years,
they were forced to leave Egypt, i.e. they were kicked out of it,
as in case with, for example, Spain, or Holland, or England, or Russia, or.....................
So, after being kicked out of Egypt, they tried to snick back, but without success,
so finally, they had to go to Palestine, first thing was to exterminate all Palestinians,
and then .... they had to work on their own to make for living!
> >>The same as today, "jews" exterminate Palestinians.
>
> Then why are there 4 million Palestinians around?
>
> Deborah
irgun1943
connell wrote in message ...
>or deny this quote at all?
Dear Monsieur Egalite,
The above quote is a late 19th century American forgery to incite
hatred of the Jewish people. There may have been 4 Jews in the American
colonies when Ben Franklin was alive.
American neo nazis like to quote fantasies in order to excuse and
project their hatred of us. I know your tone is: Boys, Boys, be nice to the
Jews. Otherwise we may have to acknowledge that they don't want to be
treated like dogs any more and live in their own state.
Face it connell: your '"theoretical" humanitarianism is exactly that:
popcorn for the soul.
irgun43
Makedon
> >>Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>
>
> >You go onto quote the Jewish massacre of the Selucid Greeks which your
> sick religion celebrates as a holiday (Haneka) even though it doesnt
> appear in the Bible, and you dont even know where they came from.
> >SCHMUCK
>
> Try Maccabees 1 & 2.
>
> >The Selucid Greeks are the Descendants of one of Alexander's Generals,
> they are Macedonian Greeks.
>
> I doubt General Seleukos was the ancestor of all Seleucid Greeks of
> Syria.
They were Macedonian Greeks!
And you stop reading those sick books like "Shulhan Aruh" written by
that bastard Joseph Karo, and other books where goyim are
described as animals, stupid etc.
quote of comment the rabbi who conducted the services at Dr. Boruch Goldstein's funeral made:
"A million Arabs are not worth one Jewish fingernail."
george
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
Makedon wrote in message <36DC7035...@erols.com>...
>dltjxx wrote:
>
>> Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>
>> wrote...
>> other religions alters and Gods. It preaches assimilation "Give unto
>> Caesar what is Caesars".
>>
>> And to God what is God's. Singular and Jewish.
>
>Jewish?! Haha! even six point star is not jewish. It comes from India.
>
Same place as the Swastika.
>
>> >The Religions of the Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans respected
>> other people religions. The Jews were free to worship their "Jealous
>> God" in Egypt, Greek and Rome.
>>
>> BWHAHAHAHA!!!!
>>
>> >On the contrary the Cananites were exterminated by the Jews for
>> worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
>>
>> They were exterminated because they burned their first-born infants to
>> their idols. Thus spaketh the Lord unto Israel, "Blow the bastards
>> away."
>
>They were exterminated because jews wanted their land.
Precisely
>The same as today, "jews" exterminate Palestinians.
>
>
dltjxx
>>Daniel was written by a Jew living under Antiochus Epimenes, he told
six stories to encourage fellow Jews also suffering under the Greek
bugger, and how by keeping the commandments they would triumph over
their enemies. Which they did, when Judah the Makkabi kicked the Greeks
out of Israel
>Out of Israel? You mean Palestine!
I mean Israel. There was no Palestine until the Romans invented the
word several centuries later.
>>then smashed their heathen idols and rededicated the
Temple so we could have Chanukka.
>and you bastards celebrate, when you killed many Greeks, as holiday,
actually as religious event?!
>ya mah shmo va zihron!
Nonsense. There were several battles with the Seleucid Greeks of Syria.
Chanukka commemorates the rededication of the Temple. There wasn't
enough oil for more than day, but the oil lasted eight, which is pretty
good mileage. So the Maccabees and their followers ate potato pancakes
and celebrated.
>> They were heathens who burned their infants to their idols. And
there was no "Pallastine".
>You mean like that (jew) Avraam who wanted to kill his first soon?
Abraham never wanted to kill Isaac. God told him to do it. It was a
test. Both Abraham and Isaac passed it.
>>>>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian
and not Greek.
>>>You are a complete asshole
>>>This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
>>[snipped what Alexander would or would not have done]
>>What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
Macedonian?
>He indeed was Macedonian. Alexander The Macedonian. Alexander The
Great.
Fascinating person. I'd vote for him instead of Clinton any day, if he
wasn't dead.
>Question for you: how old is word: "Armagedon"?
>I expect serious answer.
No idea. 2nd or 3rdC CE I would imagine. Greek transliteration of a
suppositiously Hebraic term. The word possibly refers to ancient
Megiddo where numerous battles took place, from the 2nd campaign of
Amenhotep II c.1430 BCE to the British defeat of Turks and Germans in
September 1918. Maybe even the Neolithic inhabitants were beating each
other with bones and flints, who knows? Yadin published a paper on
Megiddo in Biblical Archaeologist Sept. 1970.
>Jesus did like his jew people, his brothers and sisters.
Problem is - majority of them didn't like him.
Well, enough of them liked him to follow him. It was the Romans who
couldn't stand him.
>Lehitraot Deborah
>Makedon
Shalom, Makedon
Deborah
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
dltjxx wrote in message <7bhpmd$l...@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>...
>Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis <agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP>
>wrote...
>>>>The Ancient Greek Gods swere recognised by the Jewish god as
>equivalent diaties.
>
>>>The ancient Greek idols were so insignificant God never bothered to
>comment on them.
>
>>Absolute RUBBISH Read Daniel 11 which prophesises the coming of
>Alexander and Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra.
>
What. 1000 years after it is set ?
>six stories to encourage fellow Jews also suffering under the Greek
CRAP
It refers to when the Jews were living under Darius I in Persia, when the
Hebrew scriptures were first written in Greek.
>bugger, and how by keeping the commandments they would triumph over
>their enemies. Which they did, when Judah the Makkabi kicked the Greeks
>out of Israel then smashed their heathen idols and rededicated the
>Temple so we could have Chanukka.
Prediction of Alexander
Da 8:21 And the rough goat [is] the king of Grecia: and the great horn that
[is] between his eyes [is] the first king.
Da 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms
shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Da 11:2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet
three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than [they] all:
and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the
realm of Grecia.
Da 11:3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great
dominion, and do according to his will.
Da 11:4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall
be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor
according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked
up, even for others beside those.
Da 11:5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and [one] of his princes;
and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion [shall be]
a great dominion.
Caesar, Antony, Cleopatra
Da 11:6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the
king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an
agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he
stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her,
and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in [these] times.
>
>>>>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
>destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
>
>They were heathens who burned their infants to their idols. And there
>was no "Pallastine".
>
More racist rubbish.
Look at the old testament for when Abraham is told by his God to sacrifice
his son on an alter.
>>What a load of hogwash.
>
>>The the Hindus whos religion if far older than yours that their gods
>dont exist.
>
>Huh?
Tell the Hindus they worship Idols that dont exist.
>
>>>Alexander, as the Greeks were fond of pointing out, was Macedonian
>and not Greek.
>
>>You are a complete asshole
>>This is what the Eminent Historian Michael Wood said to me.
>
>[snipped what Alexander would or would not have done]
>
>What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
>Macedonian?
Stupid prick.
You go onto quote the Jewish massacre of the Selucid Greeks which your sick
religion celebrates as a holiday (Haneka) even though it doesnt appear in
the Bible, and you dont even know where they came from.
SCHMUCK
The Selucid Greeks are the Descendants of one of Alexander's Generals, they
are Macedonian Greeks.
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
dltjxx wrote in message <7bhuv4$j...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>...
>Makedon <mak...@erols.com> wrote...
>>>Daniel was written by a Jew living under Antiochus Epimenes, he told
>their enemies. Which they did, when Judah the Makkabi kicked the Greeks
>out of Israel
>
>
>I mean Israel. There was no Palestine until the Romans invented the
>word several centuries later.
>
BULLSHIT. I already quoted the use of the word Palestine in the OT 1000
years before Roman Rule.
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the
coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense
me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
>>You mean like that (jew) Avraam who wanted to kill his first soon?
>
>Abraham never wanted to kill Isaac. God told him to do it. It was a
>test. Both Abraham and Isaac passed it.
>
God told him to do it. The Jealous God, The God of Foreskins, The God of
Sacrifice.
I always wondered why Jews were circumcised. It obvious now. Abraham's God
couldn't be depicted as an Icon so what better symbol could he have of his
God but to mutilate himself, reminiscent of the Mauris and certain Hindu
sects who you would call pagan.
>
>>Jesus did like his jew people, his brothers and sisters.
>Problem is - majority of them didn't like him.
>
>Well, enough of them liked him to follow him. It was the Romans who
>couldn't stand him.
>
Bollocks
The Romans were prepared to release Jesus and never wanted him arrested in
the first place but the Jewish Priest demand his arrest and bribe the crowd
to call for Barrabbas release instead.
dltjxx
worshipping Gods the Jews would not tolerate.
>>> They were exterminated because they burned their first-born infants
to their idols.
>>They were exterminated because jews wanted their land.
>Precisely
Wrong. They did not want the land; it was given to them. They still
didn't want it. So they were kept in the wilderness until all the
generation who wanted to return to Egyptian slavery were dead. Then
they possessed the land.
>>The same as today, "jews" exterminate Palestinians.
Then why are there 4 million Palestinians around?
Deborah
dltjxx
>>wrote...
>>>Absolute RUBBISH Read Daniel 11 which prophesises the coming of
>>Alexander and Julius Caesar, Mark Antony and Cleopatra.
>dltjxx wrote ...
>>Daniel was written by a Jew living under Antiochus Epimenes, he told
>What. 1000 years after it is set ?
Antiochus Epimenes [175-164 BCE]. Daniel begins after the fall of
Jerusalem to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon [597 BCE]. So, what 1000
years?
>>six stories to encourage fellow Jews also suffering under the Greek
>CRAP
The six stories show: the inferiority of human wisdom to that of
Israel's God; martyrdom is to be preferred over apostasy; the greatest
of heathens is nothing to the God of Israel; chillul Hashem will get
you in trouble; the faithful will be delivered; empires come and go,
but Israel's God remains.
>It refers to when the Jews were living under Darius I in Persia, when
the Hebrew scriptures were first written in Greek.
Nonsense. Story #1 is Nebuchadnezzar's dream in the 2nd year of his
reign; he ruled Babylon 605-562 BCE. Darius I didn't show up until 522
BCE, by which time Cyrus the Great, whom Isaiah calls the Messiah, had
already authorizes Jews to return to Israel and rebuild the Temple at
Jerusalem.
>Prediction of Alexander
[snip Da 8:21, 11:2-5]
Alexander the Great lived 356-323 BCE
>Caesar, Antony, Cleopatra
[snip Da 11:6]
The reference is to Ptolemy II of Egypt whose daughter Berenice married
Antiochus II, then was murdered by Laodice, mother of Seleucus II.
>>>>>It is you Jews that went into Phonetia/Pallastine and started
>>destroying other peoples Gods and Alters.
>>They were heathens who burned their infants to their idols. And there
was no "Pallastine".
>More racist rubbish.
The first sentence certainly is; the second two are facts.
>Look at the old testament for when Abraham is told by his God to
sacrifice his son on an alter.
That was a test. Abraham and Isaac both passed it.
>Tell the Hindus they worship Idols that dont exist.
Why?
>>What has some guy's speculation have to do with Alexander being
Macedonian?
>Stupid prick.
I don't think Alexander was a stupid prick at all.
>You go onto quote the Jewish massacre of the Selucid Greeks which your
sick religion celebrates as a holiday (Haneka) even though it doesnt
appear in the Bible, and you dont even know where they came from.
>SCHMUCK
Try Maccabees 1 & 2.
>The Selucid Greeks are the Descendants of one of Alexander's Generals,
they are Macedonian Greeks.
I doubt General Seleukos was the ancestor of all Seleucid Greeks of
Syria.
Deborah
dltjxx
>>I mean Israel. There was no Palestine until the Romans invented the
word several centuries later.
>BULLSHIT. I already quoted the use of the word Palestine in the OT
1000 years before Roman Rule.
>Joe 3:4 [snipped]
What English redaction of the original Hebrew were you quoting from?
[snip usual circ stuff]
>The Romans were prepared to release Jesus and never wanted him
arrested in the first place but the Jewish Priest demand his arrest and
bribe the crowd to call for Barrabbas release instead.
Nonsense. He was crucified, which was a Roman form of execution. The
governor of Judaea at the time had such a thing for crucifying Jews
that his superior, the legate of Syria, was alarmed enough to urge for
his recall. Anyway, jesus seems to have remarked several times that
gentiles would kill him.
Deborah
meirm...@erols.com
<mak...@erols.com> posted:
>dltjxx wrote:
>>
>> Wrong. They did not want the land; it was given to them.
>> They still
>> didn't want it. So they were kept in the wilderness until all the
>> generation who wanted to return to Egyptian slavery were dead. Then
>> they possessed the land.
>You are right, they didn't want it, but they didn't have choice!
>Personally, I don't believe in that story when jews "wanted" to leave Egypt,
>because it doesn't make sense then, why they didn't want Palestinian land.
Throughout this thread, posters have been confusing the Philistines
with the Palestinians. When the Jews left Egypt Philistines inhabited
some of the land west of the mountains of Judea and south of what is
now Rishon l'Tsion. You can read about them in the Bible. They had
disappeared long before the Romans arrived. After the defeat of Judea
by the Romans they applied the name Palestine to the land, to weaken
in the eyes of onlookers the Jewish claim to the land. There had been
no Philistines at all for hundreds of years when the Romans arrived.
In the 100 years or more preceding 1948 Palestinian meant Jew, and the
Arabs in the area were called Arabs. Since 1948 Jews and Arabs who
live in Israel have been called Israelis, and Arabs who lived outside
the boundaries of Israel adopted the name Palestinian.
To the extent that people even today believe there was a relationship
between the Palestinian Arabs of today and the Philistines of 3000
years ago, the Romans succeeded.
Chag Purim Sameach
dltjxx
>>So! Ol' Benny Franklin was a Jew hater? I wonder if anybody can
confirm or deny this quote at all?
>Dear Monsieur Egalite,
> The above quote is a late 19th century American forgery to incite
>hatred of the Jewish people. There may have been 4 Jews in the
American colonies when Ben Franklin was alive.
Irgun, there were several thousand Jews in the American colonies when
Ben was alive. Chaim Solomon, premier financier of the American
Revolution, comes to mind. The ancestors of quite a number of Colonial
Jews had been there much longer than Ben's ancestors of Ben -- or
Jefferson's or Washington's ancestors, for that matter.
Deborah
dltjxx
>>dltjxx wrote:
>>> Wrong. They did not want the land; it was given to them. They still
didn't want it. So they were kept in the wilderness until all the
generation who wanted to return to Egyptian slavery were dead. Then
they possessed the land.
>Makedon mak...@erols.com> posted...
>>Personally, I don't believe in that story when jews "wanted" to leave
Egypt, because it doesn't make sense then, why they didn't want
Palestinian land.
>Throughout this thread, posters have been confusing the Philistines
with the Palestinians.
I pointed this out on this thread at least twice, I think, possibly
more. The posters still went on displaying their defective education.
>When the Jews left Egypt Philistines inhabited some of the land west
of the mountains of Judea and south of what is now Rishon l'Tsion. You
can read about them in the Bible. They had disappeared long before the
Romans arrived.
By the eighth C BCE, Philistine cities were controlled by Assyria, then
by Egypt, then by Babylon. After the Philistines rebelled against
Nebuchadnezzar after the fall of Jerusalem, he deported their rulers
and all the people. They never came back. Jews, however, did.
>After the defeat of Judea by the Romans they applied the name
Palestine to the land, to weaken in the eyes of onlookers the Jewish
claim to the land. There had been no Philistines at all for hundreds
of years when the Romans arrived.
After the Bar-Kokhva revolt was crushed in 135 CE. Hadrian substituted
eradicated Provincia Syria Palaestina for Provincia Iudaea. Iudaea, or
Judaea, was of course the Greco-Latin form of Yehud -- land of the
Jews. By the 4thC CE, there was Palaestina Prima & Palaestina Secunda
west of the Jordan (roughly Israel) and Palaestina Tertia east of the
Jordan (roughly Jordan).
>In the 100 years or more preceding 1948 Palestinian meant Jew, and the
Arabs in the area were called Arabs. Since 1948 Jews and Arabs who
live in Israel have been called Israelis, and Arabs who lived outside
the boundaries of Israel adopted the name Palestinian.
>To the extent that people even today believe there was a relationship
between the Palestinian Arabs of today and the Philistines of 3000
years ago, the Romans succeeded.
Yeah, bummer. Maybe somebody should convince Arafat that Neandertals
were there first, so they have a better claim, then he could start
calling himself a Neandertal.
>Chag Purim Sameach
>meirm...@erols.com
Chag Purim Sameach
Deborah
Agamemnon-Skopianosfaktis
dltjxx wrote in message <7bi6c0$j...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>...
><agam...@hello.to.REMOVE-SPAM-TRAP> wrote...
>>>I mean Israel. There was no Palestine until the Romans invented the
>word several centuries later.
>
>>BULLSHIT. I already quoted the use of the word Palestine in the OT
>1000 years before Roman Rule.
>>Joe 3:4 [snipped]
>
>What English redaction of the original Hebrew were you quoting from?
The Original Greek is far more accurate the the Hebrew and the vesion use in
the King James Standard Version which is used by every Christian Church in
the world.
>
>[snip usual circ stuff]
>
>>The Romans were prepared to release Jesus and never wanted him
>arrested in the first place but the Jewish Priest demand his arrest and
>bribe the crowd to call for Barrabbas release instead.
>
>Nonsense. He was crucified, which was a Roman form of execution. The
The Jews wanted him crucified.
>governor of Judaea at the time had such a thing for crucifying Jews
Rubbish.
Mt 27:17 Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them,
Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called
Christ?
Mt 27:18 For he knew that for envy they had delivered him.
Mt 27:19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him,
saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many
things this day in a dream because of him.
Mt 27:20 But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they
should ask Barabbas, and destroy Jesus.
Mt 27:21 The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will
ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.
Mt 27:22 Pilate saith unto them, What shall I do then with Jesus which is
called Christ? [They] all say unto him, Let him be crucified.
Mt 27:23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried
out the more, saying, Let him be crucified.
Mt 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but [that] rather a
tumult was made, he took water, and washed [his] hands before the multitude,
saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye [to it].
Mt 27:25 Then answered all the people, and said, His blood [be] on us, and
on our children.
Mt 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged
Jesus, he delivered [him] to be crucified.
meirm...@erols.com
(dltjxx) posted:
>meirm...@erols.com wrote...
>>>dltjxx wrote:
>>>> Wrong. They did not want the land; it was given to them. They still
>didn't want it. So they were kept in the wilderness until all the
>generation who wanted to return to Egyptian slavery were dead. Then
>they possessed the land.
>>Makedon mak...@erols.com> posted...
>>>Personally, I don't believe in that story when jews "wanted" to leave
>Egypt, because it doesn't make sense then, why they didn't want
>Palestinian land.
>>Throughout this thread, posters have been confusing the Philistines
>with the Palestinians.
>I pointed this out on this thread at least twice, I think, possibly
>more. The posters still went on displaying their defective education.
I missed these. I must have had the good sense to stay out of this
thread. But I enjoyed the details that you filled in.
>>When the Jews left Egypt Philistines inhabited some of the land west
>of the mountains of Judea and south of what is now Rishon l'Tsion. You
>can read about them in the Bible. They had disappeared long before the
>Romans arrived.
>By the eighth C BCE, Philistine cities were controlled by Assyria, then
>by Egypt, then by Babylon. After the Philistines rebelled against
>Nebuchadnezzar after the fall of Jerusalem, he deported their rulers
>and all the people. They never came back. Jews, however, did.
This and some other posts today are full of good stuff. You have been
hiding your light under a basket. (Is that the cliche I'm looking
for?) P&M
>>After the defeat of Judea by the Romans they applied the name
>Palestine to the land, to weaken in the eyes of onlookers the Jewish
>claim to the land. There had been no Philistines at all for hundreds
>of years when the Romans arrived.
>After the Bar-Kokhva revolt was crushed in 135 CE. Hadrian substituted
>eradicated Provincia Syria Palaestina for Provincia Iudaea. Iudaea, or
>Judaea, was of course the Greco-Latin form of Yehud -- land of the
>Jews. By the 4thC CE, there was Palaestina Prima & Palaestina Secunda
>west of the Jordan (roughly Israel) and Palaestina Tertia east of the
>Jordan (roughly Jordan).
>>In the 100 years or more preceding 1948 Palestinian meant Jew, and the
>Arabs in the area were called Arabs. Since 1948 Jews and Arabs who
>live in Israel have been called Israelis, and Arabs who lived outside
>the boundaries of Israel adopted the name Palestinian.
>>To the extent that people even today believe there was a relationship
>between the Palestinian Arabs of today and the Philistines of 3000
>years ago, the Romans succeeded.
>Yeah, bummer. Maybe somebody should convince Arafat that Neandertals
>were there first, so they have a better claim, then he could start
>calling himself a Neandertal.
>>Chag Purim Sameach
>>meirm...@erols.com
>Chag Purim Sameach
>Deborah
Chag Purim Sameach
dltjxx
>>>BULLSHIT. I already quoted the use of the word Palestine in the OT
1000 years before Roman Rule.
Joe 3:4 [snipped]
Nonsense. The word Palestine was used by Romans subsequent to the
supression of the Bar-Kokhva revolt in 135 CE, when Provincia Iudaea
was replaced by Provincia Syria-Palaestina.
>>What English redaction of the original Hebrew were you quoting from?
>The Original Greek is far more accurate the the Hebrew and the vesion
use in the King James Standard Version which is used by every Christian
Church in the world.
How is the "original Greek" more accurate than the "original Hebrew"?
What language do you think the bible was written in?
>The Jews wanted him crucified.
Again, jesus was crucified -- a Roman form of execution. The governor
of Judaea had a big thing for crucifying Jews. His crucifixion of so
many Jews alarmed his superior, the Legate of Syria, into urging Rome
to recall him. And BTW, who do you think the first xians were? Eskimos?
Deborah
dltjxx
with the Palestinians.
>>I pointed this out on this thread at least twice, I think, possibly
more. The posters still went on displaying their defective education.
>I missed these. I must have had the good sense to stay out of this
thread. But I enjoyed the details that you filled in.
Thanks! Glad someone noticed.
>>>When the Jews left Egypt Philistines inhabited some of the land west
of the mountains of Judea and south of what is now Rishon l'Tsion. You
can read about them in the Bible. They had disappeared long before the
Romans arrived.
>>By the eighth C BCE, Philistine cities were controlled by Assyria,
then by Egypt, then by Babylon. After the Philistines rebelled against
Nebuchadnezzar after the fall of Jerusalem, he deported their rulers
and all the people. They never came back. Jews, however, did.
>This and some other posts today are full of good stuff. You have been
hiding your light under a basket. (Is that the cliche I'm looking
for?) P&M
I have no idea. I appreciate the compliment, of course.