Ion Mihai Pacepa
AnonymousRex
Romanian.
A couple of years ago I finished reading a book by Mr. Pacepa entitled
"Red Horizons". Basically, he chronicles his experiences as the head
of Ceausescu's foreign intelligence service, as well as his personal
encounters with Ceausescu, his wife, and his cronies. The question is
this: is this book a reliable historical source of what actually
transpired, or is it merely the concoction of a vile, hypocritical
genius?
On the one hand, many of the stories Pacepa relates did in fact happen
(e.g. the recycling of Bibles into toilet paper, the purge and
execution of General Nicolae Militaru, etc.). At some points he even
collaborates his recollections by citing journal articles and other
such references. He was also a high-ranking official with first-hand
experience of what transpired behind closed doors. From this
standpoint, you couldn't find a better source.
On the other hand, he was a Communist spy. It was his job to be vile.
Perhaps when he defected he embraced American democracy with great
zeal and fervor, but did his character change? After all, it was his
business to lie and I find it difficult to believe that he merely
"changed" instantaneously. I found that throughout his book he seemed
to hypocritically set himself apart from his comrades as someone who
was more cultured and enlightened. While citing examples of
high-ranking officials groveling and drooling at Ceausescu's feet, he
always seems to be very calm, cool and professional; very
level-headed. What's interesting is that he says NOTHING about his
rise to power within the Communist hierarchy, especially to the
position of intelligence director.
The question is this: is Pacepa trustworthy or not? Since many of you
lived in Romania and have first-hand experience of what went on there,
you are in a much better position to answer this question than I am.
Are his recollections of life in Romania accurate?
I apologize in advance for offending anyone, since I'm sure this is
not the most comfortable subject for discussion.
Aschiutza
>A couple of years ago I finished reading a book by Mr. Pacepa entitled
>"Red Horizons".
And what took you so long to ask the question?
listu
"AnonymousRex" <wurm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1c262c65.03121...@posting.google.com...
I read the book in the typewritten Romanian version before it became
available in print, it confirmed the gossip and experiences we had behind
the Iron Curtain and seemed quite trustworthy...remember Pacepa was the head
of an intelligence branch which tended to recruit educated people....wether
he sold his soul to the devil is another question..a lot of people did to
save themselves or out of misconstrued patriotism...his story is impressive
and his defection contributed to the demise of Ceausescu's regime..
bbq jo
> Romanian.
>
> A couple of years ago I finished reading a book by Mr. Pacepa entitled
> "Red Horizons". Basically, he chronicles his experiences as the head
> of Ceausescu's foreign intelligence service, as well as his personal
> encounters with Ceausescu, his wife, and his cronies. The question is
> this: is this book a reliable historical source of what actually
> transpired, or is it merely the concoction of a vile, hypocritical
> genius?
Reading Philip Agee's book "Inside the Company" will show you how CIA does
disinformation and propaganda. Having the knowledge of its methods will help
you dissociate truth from lies in this book too. I think it is about 30%
truth and the rest lies.
Have you noticed the book is signed "General Mihai Pacepa"? General of what?
If he is a transfuge for conscience reasons he should not be proud of his
general grade. If not, he is a traitor and, in this case, degraded of his
general title.
FYI, Pacepa has been washed a couple of years ago, reinstated as general,
immidiately after Constantinescu came from an US visit. Fact is, todays
Romanian secret services are under CIA control and as such Pacepa is the de
facto boss.
--
http://romania-crime-watch.netfirms.com
AnonymousRex
You sound like someone who seems to be "in the know."
>
> Reading Philip Agee's book "Inside the Company" will show you how CIA does
> disinformation and propaganda. Having the knowledge of its methods will help
> you dissociate truth from lies in this book too. I think it is about 30%
> truth and the rest lies.
>
> Have you noticed the book is signed "General Mihai Pacepa"? General of what?
> If he is a transfuge for conscience reasons he should not be proud of his
> general grade. If not, he is a traitor and, in this case, degraded of his
> general title.
Believe it or not, that's actually something I never noticed before.
Very good point.
>
> FYI, Pacepa has been washed a couple of years ago, reinstated as general,
> immidiately after Constantinescu came from an US visit. Fact is, todays
> Romanian secret services are under CIA control and as such Pacepa is the de
> facto boss.
I don't mean to probe, but exactly how are you certain of something
like this? It seems to me that such information would be highly
classified. I was under the impression that someone (Pacepa) who had
come to "America and freedom" would stay permanently. That is, I had
thought that Pacepa still lived in the United States. I suppose my
curiosity about all of this has been aroused by the sheer fact that
Pacepa himself is an extremely mysterious figure.
Gica Schpritzburgh
>> A couple of years ago I finished reading a book by Mr. Pacepa entitled
>> "Red Horizons".
>Reading Philip Agee's book "Inside the Company" will show you how CIA does
ba da voi lecturi serioase n'avetzi? l'atzi citit pa gabetta?!
gica
toarna vin, toarna pelin,
toarna leantzo, toarna !
bbq jo
>
> You sound like someone who seems to be "in the know."
No :) But I keep reeding Romanian papers, I still want to know what happened
then. The infos in this document, were all published in press over years, as
various factions of ex-PCR and ex-secrest services are fighting.
>
> I don't mean to probe, but exactly how are you certain of something
> like this? It seems to me that such information would be highly
> classified. I was under the impression that someone (Pacepa) who had
> come to "America and freedom" would stay permanently. That is, I had
> thought that Pacepa still lived in the United States. I suppose my
> curiosity about all of this has been aroused by the sheer fact that
> Pacepa himself is an extremely mysterious figure.
The rehabilitation of Pacepa made a scandal in the press for months. Pacepa
is still living in US but once in a while is publishing in Romanian papers
analyses or sensational scoops about past spy stories. The last I have read
is the story he published that a head of Russian services visited Saddam 48
hours before the war start.
The rumor is that he made plastic surgery too.
Regards
bbq jo
ceva detalii despre don' gabetta? :)
Aschiutza
<pf...@microsoft.com> writes:
>ceva detalii despre don' gabetta? :)
Gambetta's mother was from Gascony; his father was an Italian who had emigrated
to Cahors and had opened a grocery store there. A successful pupil at the local
high school, ambitious and naturally eloquent, young Gambetta refused to stay
in a provincial town with no other prospect than to work in his father's store.
Against his father's will, he went to Paris to study law.
Gambetta professed very strongly republican opinions, and his exuberant and
generous nature soon made him highly popular among the Paris students. In 1859
he was called to the bar, but he was unsuccessful as a lawyer until 1868, when
a political case known as the Affaire Baudin made him suddenly famous.
Jean-Baptiste Baudin, a deputy (legislator) killed resisting Napoleon III's
coup d'état of 1851, had become a republican martyr, and eight journalists
were being prosecuted for attempting to have a monument erected in his memory.
As counsel of one of the accused, Gambetta delivered an extremely forceful
speech in which he indicted the imperial regime, its origin, and its policy.
Press reports of his speech made his political fortune, and almost overnight
Gambetta became an acknowledged leader of the Republican Party. In 1869 he was
elected to the Legislative Assembly. He opposed the steps that led to the
outbreak of the Franco-German War in July 1870, but, once it had begun, he
urged the quickest possible victory over the Germans. After the disastrous
defeat of the French at Sedan, in which Napoleon III was captured on Sept. 1,
1870, Gambetta played a principal role in proclaiming the republic and forming
a provisional government of national defense. He became minister of the
interior in this government.
The most pressing problem of the provisional government was the defense of
Paris, which was besieged by the Germans. Most members of the government stayed
in the city, but Gambetta, as their delegate, left Paris in a balloon on Oct.
17, 1870, floating over the German lines. Establishing himself at Tours, he
began to arouse unoccupied France for the defense of the entire country. He
became war minister as well, assuming virtually unlimited powers.
Of the two main French armies, one had been captured at Sedan, and the other
was besieged at Metz and soon forced to surrender. Gambetta, as always
enthusiastic and indefatigable, succeeded in raising new armies, which were
trained and supplied with arms. These achieved some local successes but were
more often defeated.
When Tours was threatened by the Germans, Gambetta left for Bordeaux in
southwestern France. Though he wished to continue fighting, the country was
tired of war, and the provisional government signed an armistice on Jan. 18,
1871.
The armistice convention provided for the election of a National Assembly,
which met at Bordeaux in March 1871 to ratify the peace terms. Gambetta was
elected a deputy for Strasbourg, in Alsace, but, after the ratification of the
peace, which yielded most of Alsace and Lorraine to Germany, he lost his seat
and retired for a short time to Spain.
In by-elections in July 1871, he was elected to the National Assembly by the
département of the Seine. The assembly was to determine whether France would
remain a republic or restore the monarchy. The majority of the deputies were
monarchists. There were, however, two candidates to the throne, the heads,
respectively, of the elder and the younger branch of the Bourbons, and they
were unable to reach agreement on which should become king. With supreme skill,
Gambetta managed to push ratification of the republic through the weary
assembly. The republican constitution of 1875 formed the basis of the French
Third Republic until the latter's demise in 1940.
Parliamentary intrigue prevented Gambetta from being elected president of the
republic, but he became president of the Chamber of Deputies, a position in
which he exercised great power. He attempted to promote a tolerant republic, an
“Athenian republic,” as he described it. In spite of his corpulence,
disheveled beard, and badly groomed appearance, his natural warmth, generosity,
and liberalism made him highly popular.
Jules Grévy, the president, disliked Gambetta and for a long time refused to
ask him to form a government. After Gambetta at last was appointed premier in
November 1881, he pursued, in foreign affairs, a policy of establishing a
closer relationship with Great Britain and, in domestic affairs, an ambitious
program of domestic reform. He was overthrown in January 1882 before achieving
either goal.
In 1872 he began a liaison with Léonie Léon, a pretty, well-educated woman,
and, after his resignation, he settled with her outside Paris, with the
intention of marrying her. While handling a revolver, he shot himself in the
arm, and, as his health was very poor, the wound healed slowly. During his
convalescence, he was stricken with appendicitis, but the doctors did not
operate. He died on Dec. 31, 1882, at the age of 44.
Assessment.
Gambetta was honoured with a national funeral. His reputation has remained
largely undiminished; there is hardly a town in France without a street bearing
his name. Yet his fame rests on what he achieved in his long years of
opposition and during the Franco-German War rather than during the two
terms—totaling three years—in which he exercised power. He was a fervent
advocate both of fully modern democracy—universal suffrage, freedom of the
press, right of meeting, trial by jury for political offenses, separation of
church and state—and of national unity. For the sake of the latter, he
occasionally struck bargains with his political opponents, thus gaining an
undeserved reputation as an opportunist. Undoubtedly, he was largely
responsible for the consolidation of parliamentary democracy in France, but his
compromises resulted in a fragile party system that served to weaken democratic
government.
Gica Schpritzburgh
> In spite of his corpulence,
>disheveled beard, and badly groomed appearance, his natural warmth,
>generosity,
>and liberalism made him highly popular.
>Gambetta was honoured with a national funeral. His reputation has remained
>largely undiminished
sey no mo' !
sa vaza si iei ce om mare a fost. da asta ie numa fatza cunoscuta.
intzelepciunea iea ramas proverbieala.
Corvinas
got. My take about that book is that is based of the notes taken during
Pacepa's debriefing. Of course,he turncoated,spilled lots of truth and
also some details to excuse himself or to inflict some thornsw in his
enemies but as a whole,as already mantioned, his book casted so much
light up and down that it led indeet to the desmise of Ceausescu. I
suppose a gostwriter wored this book and the money resulted would make
it easier for the US who pledged to protect Pacepa.