Why do Germans hate Poles?
Heinz G. Molck
On Fri, 30 May 1997 01:14:06 GMT, le...@mail.netinc.ca (RPP) wrote:
>Celtic...@t-online.de (Astrid Kuckartz) wrote:
>
>>Gabriela Roth <alg...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
>>> The question is rather brainless. The Polish don't even have generally
>>> a bad reputation in Germany.
>
>
>>Astrid
>
>Asey answer. If it wasnt for Poland, Germany would be twice its size.
>They dont like Poles because we successfully stopped them from making
>lands past the Bug german. This hits the German pride.
>
Just another "brainless" comment? What do you pretend with your
statement? Where you personally envolved back then in 1945 in
"stopping" the German? Would a hypothetical similar fate hit your
pride as a Canadian?
Be assured, the vast majority in Germany doesn't waste a single
thought about the former german territory. They have learned to accept
the actual border and in fact Germany has stated in a treaty that it
will accept that border also in the future.
So what is your point? You just shot yourself into the foot, made a
fool of yourself, didn't you notice? No, probably you do not.
Should I (and the audience) now judge all Canadians by your poor
performance?
We will not, People like you can be found in all societies.
Anyway, have a nice day.
My best regards from the conquered to the victor!
Heinz G. Molck
mo...@uv.es
Ciencias Morfologicas - Facultad de Medicina
Universidad de Valencia, SPAIN
Ines Weber
RPP wrote:
>
> Celtic...@t-online.de (Astrid Kuckartz) wrote:
>
> >Gabriela Roth <alg...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> >> The question is rather brainless. The Polish don't even have generally
> >> a bad reputation in Germany.
>
>
> >That is a rather optimistic view. Think about the countless Anti-Polish
> >jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen" etc.) and other - open and
> >hidden - prejudices, that are spread not only in pubs at the
> >"Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers (and I am not only talking
> >about the BILD-Zeitung).
>
> >Ok, there is a small group of German people, who are interested in
> >Poland, have Polish friends and even try to learn the Polish language,
> >and there are some people, who have strong feelings of rejection of
> >Poles. But the vast majority of German people is not simply indifferent
> >against Poles - they just don't like them at all.
> >I get this impression every time, when people find out, that my friend
> >is from Poland, that I listen to Polish music or that I learn to speak
> >Polish. The reaction is very seldom a positive one, very often often a
> >"You do WHAT?" (I interprete this question as a marginal sign of
> >interest) and mostly a shake of the head and pure incomprehension.
>
> >I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> >people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland or
> >even the Czech Republic.
>
> >I am looking forward to hearing other opinions on this topic...
>
> >Greetings
>
> >Astrid
>
> Asey answer. If it wasnt for Poland, Germany would be twice its size.
> They dont like Poles because we successfully stopped them from making
> lands past the Bug german. This hits the German pride.
Which whole did you just crawl out of? Get a life, just look around,
what are you talking about? If this is your explanation how do you
explain the fact that number and proportionwise the largest number of
Jews were killed in Poland? And don't give me the bull about the
Germans doing it because it doesn't hold. Other countries like Bulgaria
(you may find using Denmark as an example maybe inappropriate) refused
to deliver their Jews? Or maybe the Jews hurt YOUR PRIDE?
Shame on you...
--
?_
John Walker
Innes Weber wrote:
>
> Which whole did you just crawl out of? Get a life, just look around,
> what are you talking about? If this is your explanation how do you
> explain the fact that number and proportionwise the largest number of
> Jews were killed in Poland? And don't give me the bull about the
> Germans doing it because it doesn't hold. Other countries like Bulgaria
> (you may find using Denmark as an example maybe inappropriate) refused
> to deliver their Jews? Or maybe the Jews hurt YOUR PRIDE?
>
Shame on you, Innes, for the ignorance displayed in your post above.
The Danes were able to escort their Jews out of Denmark before giving up to
the German National Socialists. Poland put up an exceptionally good fight
against its invaders but lost. Consequently, the legitimate Polish
government was set up in exile and had no way of delivering masses of people
to anybody within the Polish borders even if they wanted to. Any orders to
kill prisoners and detainee's did not come from the Polish government - they
came from the government of the German National Socialists. --- Or do you
know something nobody else knows?
At the opening of hostilities in World War II there was no reason to believe
that Jews or anyone else would be singled out in the manner which you imply.
This makes the Danish action all the more curious and all the less
courageous. Danish military officers, by the way, served on the German side
of the war during most of its course. There was no Danish government in exile
serving the Allies. Meanwhile, the Polish government in exile supplied the
4th largest Allied army which eventually smashed the killing machine you
complain of. Instead of derision, you should be offering thanks to the
Polish nation.
Had the Allies held true to their promises, Poland would have received the
adequate military assistance she was promised upon the opening of
hostilities; the Axis would have lost the war early on, and the lives of
millions (including Jews) would have been spared.
========== JohnW...@cheerful.com ========
John Walker
> Astrid Kuckartz wrote:
> >
> > Dzien dobry!
> >
> > In the soc.culture.german newsgroup started a discussion about the
> > relationship between Germans and Poles.
> >
> > Maybe this is of some interest for this newsgroup as well...
> >
> > Michael Keller <soa...@ica.net> wrote:
> >
> > > i would like to know why most Germans hate Poles,
> > >
> > > please respond..
> >
>
> (text deleted)
>
> > What are your experiences? How are Germans and Germany viewed in Poland?
> >
> > Astrid==========:::::==========:::::==========:::::==========:::::
> Interesting.
>
> I recall that M. Keller posted similar material
> to soc.culture.ukrainian, under the heading of
> "Why do Ukrainians hate Poles?"
> (Message ID: <338cb...@lightning.ica.net>).
>
> GHC==========:::::==========:::::==========:::::==========:::::
===== John Walker's repy =====
What generates hatred towards Poles?
Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
nation and its people.
===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
spea...@netcom.ca
Astrid Kuckartz wrote:
>
> Dzien dobry!
>
> In the soc.culture.german newsgroup started a discussion about the
> relationship between Germans and Poles.
>
> Maybe this is of some interest for this newsgroup as well...
>
> Michael Keller <soa...@ica.net> wrote:
>
> > i would like to know why most Germans hate Poles,
> >
> > please respond..
>
(text deleted)
> What are your experiences? How are Germans and Germany viewed in Poland?
>
> Astrid
spea...@netcom.ca
John Walker wrote:
>
> > Astrid Kuckartz wrote:
> > >
> > > Dzien dobry!
> > >
> > > In the soc.culture.german newsgroup started a discussion about the
> > > relationship between Germans and Poles.
> > >
> > > Maybe this is of some interest for this newsgroup as well...
> > >
> > > Michael Keller <soa...@ica.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > i would like to know why most Germans hate Poles,
> > > >
> > > > please respond..
> > >
> >
> > (text deleted)
> >
> > > What are your experiences? How are Germans and Germany viewed in Poland?
> > >
> > Interesting.
> >
> > I recall that M. Keller posted similar material
> > to soc.culture.ukrainian, under the heading of
> > "Why do Ukrainians hate Poles?"
> > (Message ID: <338cb...@lightning.ica.net>).
> >
>
> ===== John Walker's repy =====
>
> What generates hatred towards Poles?
>
> Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
> Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>
> Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
> through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
> nation and its people.
>
> ===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
Well, here we go again...
M. Keller's seemingly innocent question has
evoked a patriotic declamation from you
and I suspect that other unquestioning
readers shall follow.
Maybe, we should ask Michael Keller
<soa...@ica.net> about his reason for
wanting to raise this issue on soc.culture.german
and on soc.culture.ukrainian?
Whom are you trying to dip Mr. Keller?
GHC
...
EDWARD ZWOLAN
John Walker (JohnW...@cheerful.com) wrote:
: What generates hatred towards Poles?
:
: Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
: Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
:
: Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
: through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
: nation and its people.
:
: ===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
Agreed !!!
I might add that enemies of European culture hate Poles for
their will to preserve it. On the other hand, many who wish to
preserve European culture hate Pole's for their way of doing it-
through adherence to Catholicism.
Stanislaw Zwolan
John Walker
=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::
John Walker reply's
Your observation is correct; that those who hate Poland and the Polish
also hate the European culture. We see evidence on the Internet that these
people foment hate on more than one social culuture group.
What is being practiced by these detractors is the strategy of
de-stabilization. The purpose of their postings is to get everyone
divided. They get some kind of sick advantage out of this.
--- JohnW...@cheerful.com -----
spea...@netcom.ca
Ścigi wrote:
>
> > Interesting.
> >
> > I recall that M. Keller posted similar material
> > to soc.culture.ukrainian, under the heading of
> > "Why do Ukrainians hate Poles?"
> > (Message ID: <338cb...@lightning.ica.net>).
>
> Greetz,
>
> Scigi
Czesc,
Zgadzam sie z Panem ze zamiary Pana M. Kellera
wygladaja podejrzliwie. Chocby dlatego ze on
nie wyjasnil ich na moje pytanie.
GHC
Martin Paegert
Astrid Kuckartz (Celtic...@t-online.de) wrote:
> Think about the countless Anti-Polish jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in
> Polen" etc.) and other - open and hidden - prejudices, that are spread
> not only in pubs at the "Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers
> (and I am not only talking about the BILD-Zeitung).
>
> I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland or
> even the Czech Republic.
Don't give a damn on it. Partially the are right even in making silly
jokes. Follwing the breakdown of Iron curtain Eastern Europe develop a
market for wesern products. Cars f.e. Thats natural in terms of
economics. As for hwatever reasons a lot of people would have liked to
have a BMW, Mercedes or whatever western car without really being able to
afford it for western prices, it did show up as a huge market for
black-sellings. Organized by western or eastern criminals. The western
ciminal part is less reported but not less important. It does reach from
betrayal of insurances (sell your old car to a Polish person and claim it
to be stolen to your insurance) up to manipulations by high ranking sales
managers of Mercedes and VW. The German part is more complicated and
usually not of that stuff to qualify for easy readings. Anyhow, a lot of
criminal activities - especially that of low level as selling your car on
one hand and claiming it as stolen on the other as well as real thefts -
was organized through Poland. Means: if you intend to ship black goods to
the Eastern European countries, Poland is geographically right on your way
and by far more inportant than Tchech Republik. Thus it could no wonder
that Poland became important for low and high level criminals of whatever
nationality. That is not an excuse, but more an explanation of how things
went and prejudices might arise or being "confirmed".
In addition prejudices are usually not that deep and might turn. F.e.
beginning of the 80s with upcoming of Solidarnosc it was "en vogue" to
be sympathethic to Polish people. All those now damning Polish people
regard as likely having been enthusiastically Polish friends 10 to 15
years ago. Thus, being pro or anti is quite often not more but a fashion.
Next season, next fashion. The danger is that fashions might have a
serious impact on society. How to reduce this impact should be the
question number one me seems.
Greetings
--
Martin (m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de)
Zalek Bloom
>
>===== John Walker's repy =====
>
>What generates hatred towards Poles?
>
>Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
>Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>
>Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
>through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
>nation and its people.
>
>===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
Dear John Walker,
Your analysis is excellent, and let me learn from your posting - I
will try to find a general law that your article discovered.
If we find a different nation/race that most sticks to its religion,
naturally, it may become the target of the world's religious bigotry.
Instead of attacking this race/nation directly, detractors do so
through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this
great race/nation and its people.
For example they will try to prove that a person that worked on
genocide project should not be trial by genocidal race/nation. I am
sure that those detractors will also try to proved that a person
responsible for genocide of Polish people should not be trial by
Poles.
Good work Mr Walker!!!
Zalek
Andrzej Borowiec
In article <EB2u...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de>, m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de (Martin
Paegert) wrote:
Yo, Martin!
I hope you don't blame Poles for being unter the soviet boot for 40
years and their criminal element to develop the economy to match
the situation...?
Anyhow, why this mindless thread? Poles and Germans are fucking neighbors!
They've been neighbors for more than a millenium. Aren't they civilized enough
now to at least pay no attention to each other?
There.
Andrzej Borowiec
Daniel von Brighoff
In article <junk_mail-ya024080...@nntp.interaccess.com>,
Andrzej Borowiec <junk_mail@junk_mail.com> wrote:
>In article <EB2u...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de>, m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de (Martin
>Paegert) wrote:
>
>Yo, Martin!
>I hope you don't blame Poles for being unter the soviet boot for 40
>years and their criminal element to develop the economy to match
>the situation...?
I didn't get the feeling he was trying to blame anyone for their
misfortunes. He was careful to note that many of the criminals who have
given Poland a bad reputation of late are not Poles at all, but Germans or
Eastern Europeans who use Poland as a convenient staging-ground.
>Anyhow, why this mindless thread? Poles and Germans are fucking neighbors!
And why this mindless profanity?
This thread isn't mindless. Someone may have started it with the
intention of seeing a flamewar, but fortunately most of the posters have
been reasonable enough that that hasn't happened. The name of the thread,
admittedly, left something to be desired, so I have changed it to
something less inflammatory.
>They've been neighbors for more than a millenium. Aren't they civilized enough
>now to at least pay no attention to each other?
>There.
They *do* pay attention to each other. Sometimes the attention is
positive, sometimes it's negative. In any case, the situation is
interesting and worth discussing.
So here's my question: How do the Poles, particularly in western and
northern Poland, feel about the recent influx of German tourists? I know
that Germany and Poland have agreed that the border is to be regarded as
unnegotiable, but if it were me living in Pomerania, a constant stream of
people coming through saying, "We used to own this house. That was the
Henzes' farm. This street used to be filled with beautiful houses." would
get on my nerves after a while. How would they feel if Germans began
buying property in these regions to retire to or to run businesses on?
--
Daniel "Da" von Brighoff /\ Dilettanten
(de...@midway.uchicago.edu) /__\ erhebt Euch
/____\ gegen die Kunst!
Michel Couzijn
On 29 May 1997 13:32:36 GMT, Celtic...@t-online.de (Astrid
Kuckartz) wrote:
>Think about the countless Anti-Polish
>jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen" etc.)
Last week I visited my relatives in Krakow. My
Polish friends told me about the air company LOT 's
new slogan to attract foreign tourists:
'Fly with us to Poland... your car is already there!'
I don't know whether this is authentic or not (probably
not, although it could refer to the fly-and-drive
arrangements) but it is a good joke. And told by
Poles among themselves.
Michel Couzijn
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Jack R. Badura
Hi Astrid,
At a time of communism I spent some year in Austria and germany. Believe me
my friend if I had to end my days in one of those countries among those
people I would rather run across the
Berlin wall in opposit dirrection risking being shot by Esterners for
"stupidity".
I have never seen so paranoic, inhuman, prejuduced and simply stupid
sociaty as AUSTRIANS AND
GERRIES. Poor folks dwelling on their prejudices and internal stupidity.
The notion of difference of opinion, origin, ethnicity, nationality and for
god sake race is strage to thoise primitives.
Maybe in some 50 years they can awake rasing from the middle ages and ashes
after going down the drain in todays world.
For a change 400 years of stealling and grabbing from the rest of the
Savage world is over for those noble WASP anglo-sacsons. Maybe for a change
they will get on their assess and try o work and produce.
Well let us observe them in this capacity.
To help them in their missery ot would be advisable to simply not byu their
misserable products.
Jack
Astrid Kuckartz <Celtic...@t-online.de> wrote in article
<5mk0hk$mup$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>...
> Gabriela Roth <alg...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> > The question is rather brainless. The Polish don't even have generally
> > a bad reputation in Germany.
>
> Hi Gabriela!
>
> That is a rather optimistic view. Think about the countless Anti-Polish
> jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen" etc.) and other - open and
> hidden - prejudices, that are spread not only in pubs at the
> "Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers (and I am not only talking
> about the BILD-Zeitung).
>
> Ok, there is a small group of German people, who are interested in
> Poland, have Polish friends and even try to learn the Polish language,
> and there are some people, who have strong feelings of rejection of
> Poles. But the vast majority of German people is not simply indifferent
> against Poles - they just don't like them at all.
> I get this impression every time, when people find out, that my friend
> is from Poland, that I listen to Polish music or that I learn to speak
> Polish. The reaction is very seldom a positive one, very often often a
> "You do WHAT?" (I interprete this question as a marginal sign of
> interest) and mostly a shake of the head and pure incomprehension.
>
> I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland or
> even the Czech Republic.
>
Jack R. Badura
Hi Martin,
In an market economy a thinking individual shoul create a miningful
solution.
Onece upon a time I have leant that from my Jewish friend.
By simply not buying a German product you do not support (a car)
3-4 month os a German employment. Thgere is an economic factor.
By buying a different car you create different economic pattern.
I know system works addressing the lower aspect of our instincts an no
mentality at all.
Just thoink "any Pole buying a Korean car putting the economic factor at a
distance.
that just accelerated unevoidable denmise of West european arrogance and
domination and puts those folks at quite a disadvantage in relation to "
primitive" Poles.
Well I foolow the pattern. Jack
Martin Paegert <m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
<EB2u...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de>...
> Astrid Kuckartz (Celtic...@t-online.de) wrote:
>
> > Think about the countless Anti-Polish jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in
> > Polen" etc.) and other - open and hidden - prejudices, that are spread
> > not only in pubs at the "Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers
> > (and I am not only talking about the BILD-Zeitung).
> >
> > I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> > people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland
or
> > even the Czech Republic.
>
Jerzy Pankiewicz
In soc.culture.polish Daniel von Brighoff <de...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
: So here's my question: How do the Poles, particularly in western and
: northern Poland, feel about the recent influx of German tourists?
a mile from the border. They are rare in my town of Wroclaw (Breslau).
: get on my nerves after a while. How would they feel if Germans began
: buying property in these regions to retire to or to run businesses on?
Some old people hate Germans. The majority is pragmatic.
But yes, almost all Poles prfer to have German money but without
working for Germans or selling land to them :-).
Jerzy Pankiewicz
Ines Weber
Jack R. Badura wrote:
>
> Hi Astrid,
> At a time of communism I spent some year in Austria and germany. Believe me
> my friend if I had to end my days in one of those countries among those
> people I would rather run across the
> Berlin wall in opposit dirrection risking being shot by Esterners for
> "stupidity".
Well, did you? And did they? For that matter why did you want to go to
those countries in the first place? Why not, as a true Communist told
your superiors that you don't want to have anything to do with the
decadence of the West and throw your passport down their throats. My
guess, having lived for my first 16 years in a Communist country is that
you did EVERYTHING you could to get this opportunity and now, because
you were for whatever reason, unable to succeed are hitting on those
cultures. Don't you realize what a flagrant display of stupidity you
present us with when you make generalizations of this kind?
> The notion of difference of opinion, origin, ethnicity, nationality and for
> god sake race is strage to thoise primitives.
Of course, it was the Poles who promoted the ideas of freedom and
democracy, everybody knows that, they are the center of culture, an
example for humanity indeed. Where the hell have you gone to school?
If you went to school at all, which I presume that you did, after all it
was mandatory in Communist Countries, did you pass your courses because
you were a member of the Communist Party or because you actually knew
what the hell was going on?
Everyone knows and history has certainly shown the contributions that
all these countries, Austria, Germany, France made to humanity as did
Poland. For that matter we are (or should be) aware also of their
errors in judgement, but that includes POLAND as well. So what the hell
are you trying to say here? Have you thought that maybe those people
were reacting to YOUR prejudice against them?
> Maybe in some 50 years they can awake rasing from the middle ages and ashes
> after going down the drain in todays world.
Well, in that case it will take Poland more like 100 years, not exactly
known for having had a tradition of democracy and freedom.
> For a change 400 years of stealling and grabbing from the rest of the
> Savage world is over for those noble WASP anglo-sacsons.
Well, why do you absolutely want to show us with your conduct that
you're no different than those who thought Slavs are only slave
material?
> Maybe for a change
> they will get on their assess and try o work and produce.
Really? I guess I misunderstood, even though I am a Professor of
International Business I thought that all the aid from IMF and European
Community was going to Poland not to Germany, which is in fact giving
money for this purpose. Wow, these Germans are something... Can't
produce, are lazy, don't work but have millions of dollars to bail
countries like Poland out of their misery!!!
> Well let us observe them in this capacity.
> To help them in their missery ot would be advisable to simply not byu their
> misserable products.
Don't tell me that that's the reason some of your compatriots as well as
mine (Romania) are stealing German-made things, cars, appliances, etc
and sell them at a premium in their own countries. Well, that's a way
of looking at things I guess. Let's see how far this will get
you....Maybe then if you really want to "show them" why don't you just
aske your government to not accept any further aid, special interest
loans and so on from these barbaric countries. After all we wouldn't
want you "contaminated" in any way, do we?
Ines
Jack
>
> Astrid Kuckartz <Celtic...@t-online.de> wrote in article
> <5mk0hk$mup$1...@news01.btx.dtag.de>...
> > Gabriela Roth <alg...@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
> >
> > > The question is rather brainless. The Polish don't even have generally
> > > a bad reputation in Germany.
> >
> > Hi Gabriela!
> >
> > That is a rather optimistic view. Think about the countless Anti-Polish
> > jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in Polen" etc.) and other - open and
> > hidden - prejudices, that are spread not only in pubs at the
> > "Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers (and I am not only talking
> > about the BILD-Zeitung).
> >
> > Ok, there is a small group of German people, who are interested in
> > Poland, have Polish friends and even try to learn the Polish language,
> > and there are some people, who have strong feelings of rejection of
> > Poles. But the vast majority of German people is not simply indifferent
> > against Poles - they just don't like them at all.
> > I get this impression every time, when people find out, that my friend
> > is from Poland, that I listen to Polish music or that I learn to speak
> > Polish. The reaction is very seldom a positive one, very often often a
> > "You do WHAT?" (I interprete this question as a marginal sign of
> > interest) and mostly a shake of the head and pure incomprehension.
> >
> > I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> > people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland or
> > even the Czech Republic.
> >
> > I am looking forward to hearing other opinions on this topic...
> >
> > Greetings
> >
> > Astrid
> >
--
?_
Ines Weber
Jack R. Badura wrote:
>
> Hi Martin,
> In an market economy a thinking individual shoul create a miningful
> solution.
> Onece upon a time I have leant that from my Jewish friend.
JEWISH FRIEND? What the hell is that? I thought that in your previous
post you said that one reason for which you disliked the anglo-saxon
cultures is because you perceived them to be intolerant to other races,
cultures etc. A friend is a friend, if you are culturally tolerant as
you would like us to believe even though I doubt it sincerely, you
wouldn't have made that remark. By the way, in My previous reply to
your post I told you that I'm from Romania. Now I can tell you that I
am also Jewish and that I don't think your Jewishb "friend" would be
thrilled to know that you have categorized him based on his faith. Tell
me how many Buddhist friends do you have? Any blacks maybe? How many
categories of friends are there? And for that matter how do you set up
these categories? Why don't you just face your double standard and stop
throwing sand in our eyes. Besides I don't think anyone came and held a
gun to your heard while forcing you to live in "barbaric" countries. So
stay where you're happy and help your own rather than keeping busy with
those who are so far out of your reach!!!
> By simply not buying a German product you do not support (a car)
> 3-4 month os a German employment. Thgere is an economic factor.
So DON'T BUY IT!!! But don't STEAL it either, you wouldn't want to be
accused of hypocrisy, do you? So, assuming you had the money, why don't
you buy a Lada, Dacia, no Skoda, it's "barbaric" now, maybe that great
FIAT that your country was so famous for producing... go ahead, who'se
stopping you? Do you think that your contribution really counts in the
generaly picture? Learn some economics, I can point you to some books,
before you make such ridiculous statements.
> By buying a different car you create different economic pattern.
> I know system works addressing the lower aspect of our instincts an no
> mentality at all.
> Just thoink "any Pole buying a Korean car putting the economic factor at a
> distance.
Of course, watch out though for those Korean sweatshops, so well known
and feared in Central America, that'll teach you a lesson in
"barbarism". Did you know that Korean Maquilladoras in which clothing
is manufactured close thier doors, give their workforce made up of
children primarily pills with caffeine and noone is allowed to leave the
building before the order is complete? But I forgot, this is
civilization compared to the Anglo-Saxon "barbarism".
> that just accelerated unevoidable denmise of West european arrogance and
> domination and puts those folks at quite a disadvantage in relation to "
> primitive" Poles.
Go on dreaming!!! You strike me like the type who really knew the
Communist Manifesto inside out, lived by it and preached by it... Well
times are changing. The bad Capitalists are going to take over whether
you like it or not, not because their philodophy is better but because
they are more realistic in regard to human nature and the need for
private ownership. That's OK if you don't comprehend this, your
children definitely will.
> Well I foolow the pattern. Jack
Good for you!!! Stay there, you obviously belong there and nowhere else,
conduct your boycot and then feel like you've actually done something
important. You must truly have an empty, meaningless life I feel sorry
for you.
Ines
> Martin Paegert <m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de> wrote in article
> <EB2u...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de>...
> > Astrid Kuckartz (Celtic...@t-online.de) wrote:
> >
> > > Think about the countless Anti-Polish jokes ("Kaum gestohlen, schon in
> > > Polen" etc.) and other - open and hidden - prejudices, that are spread
> > > not only in pubs at the "Stammtisch" but in German TV and newspapers
> > > (and I am not only talking about the BILD-Zeitung).
> > >
> > > I think Poles have a far worse reputation in Germany than for example
> > > people from Ireland, Scandinavia, France, Spain, Austria, Switzerland
> or
> > > even the Czech Republic.
> >
--
?_
AnDaL
On 31 May 1997 08:50:56 GMT, zwo...@nevada.edu (EDWARD ZWOLAN) wrote:
>John Walker (JohnW...@cheerful.com) wrote:
>
>: What generates hatred towards Poles?
>:
>: Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
>: Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>:
>: Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
>: through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
>: nation and its people.
>:
>: ===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
>
>
> Agreed !!!
>
> I might add that enemies of European culture hate Poles for
> their will to preserve it. On the other hand, many who wish to
> preserve European culture hate Pole's for their way of doing it-
> through adherence to Catholicism.
>
> Stanislaw Zwolan
>
>
>
Agreed !!!
God Bless You
AnDaL
Zalek Bloom
>
>===== John Walker's repy =====
>
>What generates hatred towards Poles?
>
>Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
>Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>
>Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
>through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
>nation and its people.
>
>===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
Dear John Walker,
Your analysis is excellent, and let me learn from your posting - I
will try to find a general law that your article discovered.
If we find a different nation/race that most sticks to its religion,
naturally, it may become the target of the world's religious bigotry.
Instead of attacking this race/nation directly, detractors do so
through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this
Wieslaw Kochanski
n...@here.com (AnDaL) wrote:
>On 31 May 1997 08:50:56 GMT, zwo...@nevada.edu (EDWARD ZWOLAN) wrote:
>>John Walker (JohnW...@cheerful.com) wrote:
>>
>>: What generates hatred towards Poles?
Yeh.. but the guestion was " What generates German hatred towards Poles"
...insted some comlements about Poland and Polish,
Some buy it but I don't.
I want You to answer this question...
Wieslaw.
P.S. Are you looking after votes ..:)))
You must be pretty in love with your self. but unhappy..
>>: Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
>>: Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>>:
>>: Instead of attacking Poland's Catholocism directly, detractors do so
>>: through oblique avenues, attempting by any means to discredit this great
>>: nation and its people.
>>:
>>: ===== JohnW...@cheerful.com ====
>>
>>
Ania Oleksik
On Wed, 04 Jun 1997 18:17:27 -0600, John Walker wrote:
>[Next time say please :-) ]
but he would have been more consistent had he written:
>[Next time say "please", please :-) ]
Juergen Hubert
Jack R. Badura wrote:
>
> Hi Astrid,
> At a time of communism I spent some year in Austria and germany. Believe me
> my friend if I had to end my days in one of those countries among those
> people I would rather run across the
> Berlin wall in opposit dirrection risking being shot by Esterners for
> "stupidity".
> sociaty as AUSTRIANS AND
> GERRIES. Poor folks dwelling on their prejudices and internal stupidity.
> god sake race is strage to thoise primitives.
> after going down the drain in todays world.
> Savage world is over for those noble WASP anglo-sacsons.
We German qualify as WASPs? Saxons would be accurate for parts of
Germany, but _anglo_-saxons? And while I'm protestant, many of my
friends are not, and, indeed, here in Bavaria Catholics seem to be the
majority.
--
Juergen Hubert
HUB...@gawein.physik.uni-erlangen.de
"Sometimes I do stupid stuff, and I don't even know why...
...as if my body were controlled by some demented, sadistic
puppet-master..."
-- Bernard Bernoulli
"Well, we all feel that way sometimes."
-- Weird Ed Edison
in: "Day of the Tentacle"
Genie
Juergen Hubert <HUB...@gawein.physik.uni-erlangen.de> wrote in article
<339688DB...@gawein.physik.uni-erlangen.de>...
> Jack R. Badura wrote:
> >
> > Hi Astrid,
> > I have never seen so paranoic, inhuman, prejuduced and simply stupid
> > sociaty as AUSTRIANS AND
> > GERRIES. Poor folks dwelling on their prejudices and internal
stupidity.
> > The notion of difference of opinion, origin, ethnicity, nationality and
for
> > god sake race is strage to thoise primitives.
I'm confused...If the notion of differences of opinion, origin etc down to
race is strange to Austrians and Germans then how can they be prejudiced ?
If they believe - as you seem to suggest Jack - that there are no
differences between people and everyone is the same then where does
prejudice come from? " I hate you because there is no difference between
you and me" ? Doesn't fit in with the normal definition of prejudice which
to me suggest an irrational dislike/hatred of someone because of some
factor which can include race, difference of opinion etc.
BTW I am Irish and have never actually been to Austria or Germany and I
have no opinions on the prejudice or otherwise of these nations.
Genie
E.F.Schelby
"Genie" <ge...@iol.ie> wrote:
>If they believe - as you seem to suggest Jack - that there are no
>differences between people and everyone is the same then where does
>prejudice come from? " I hate you because there is no difference between
>you and me" ? Doesn't fit in with the normal definition of prejudice which
>to me suggest an irrational dislike/hatred of someone because of some
>factor which can include race, difference of opinion etc.
Perhaps it is simpler? And part of our quarrelsome condition? Take
an extended family or small community: even there one can find
gossip, irrational dislikes, and sometimes hatred. It's also present
in various social groupings, from classrooms full of students to
offices full of politics. It's all based on differences - often on
small ones, and on nothing as gradiose as "race." (A word that is
not PI (politically incorrect) in the U.S). I guess tolerance begins
when one accepts differences, deals with them, and cultivates a
sense of humor.
As to prejudices on a larger scale - between peoples and countries
for example - we will probably have to slave in the salt mines of
cybertalk and blather for years to come before we can begin to get
rid of old hardened sediments. The media (middlemen, really) and
other opinion-makers in various countries have done a marvelous job
in building up strata upon strata of jingoistic or at least
self-centered semi-information. (Even people who think they are not
nationalistic fall for related or substitute conceits). Anyway,
offerings tend to be skewed self-importantly to make one's own
society look a little grander. But there may be hope for change. For
the first time, people can interact on a growing scale across
borders and prejudices. Some predict that the Net will make direct
democracy possible.
>BTW I am Irish and have never actually been to Austria or Germany and I
>have no opinions on the prejudice or otherwise of these nations.
Perhaps you have a well developed immune system against prejudice
and could travel to these and other countries with an open mind and
open eyes. Beats pre-conceptions any time.
Best,
ES
Paralytic sycophants, effete betrayers of humanity,
carrion-eating servile immitators, arch-cowards
and collaborators, gang of women-murderers,
degenerate rabble, parasitic tradionalists,
play-boy soldiers, conceited dandies.
Approved terms of abuse for East German
Communist speakers when describing Britain
in 1953 :-).
Klaus Günther Beck
> that Germany and Poland have agreed that the border is to be regarded as
> unnegotiable, but if it were me living in Pomerania, a constant stream of
> people coming through saying, "We used to own this house. That was the
> Henzes' farm. This street used to be filled with beautiful houses." would
> buying property in these regions to retire to or to run businesses on?
>
to bad. GErmans who want to live and work in Poland certainly won´t be
of the bigot kind.
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.
I do not think this subject line is true.
Neither Poles hate Germans nor Germans hate Poles.
If some Russian KGB or army folks think they do I think they are wrong.
Perhaps one could find few Germans who were grown in hate to Poles and few
Poles who hate Germans, but can we say those few strange people are "Germans"
or "Poles".
While saying "Germans hate Poles" it sounds like all Germans hate all the Poles
and vice versa
My cousin has fallen in love with one German and he (the German)
has married her few years ago. They are very happy together.
I did not mind on my Wedding Day that my wife's grandfather was a German
soldier and died during the WWII close to the German-Belgian border.
You talk about the history or about the future.??
I have been visiting Germany few times and almost all the people I have met
were kind to me. Also those Germans I have met in Ireland during my
postgraduate study (and I know only 4 words in German).
I would not say the number of nice Germans I have met was greater than number
of nice Irish, but I can say I would prefer Germany when considering entering
employment with the same company upon the same terms in those two countries.
Of course, to be honest, if I had had a third option my choice would have been
the USA.
:)
This also is a reply to the Irish man who has not been to Germany.
GK
E.F.Schelby (sch...@swcp.com) wrote:
: "Genie" <ge...@iol.ie> wrote:
:
:
SZabron
Germany hates poland for the same reason that poland dislikes germany, its
all history, poland and germany go back a long time as neighbors and
throughout history many wars have been fought between these two nations.
Theyre old rivals. What I would like to know where and how these polish
jokes started, I am very proud to be polish and consider the people who
are making these jokes stupid, poles are hard working and smart people,
the standard of schooling in poland makes the american school system look
like kindegarten.
Lech K. Lesiak
> John Walker (JohnW...@cheerful.com) wrote:
>
> : What generates hatred towards Poles?
> :
> : Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
> : Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
Little simplistic, I think. In fact, everyone in that part of the world
hates everyone else. Slovaks hate Czechs and Hungarians. Czechs hate
Germans. Everyone hates Jews and gypsies. No need to mention Serbs and
Croats, I think. There are many different factors involved in these
ethnic hatreds, and to attribute them overwhelmingly to only one does a
disservice to history.
Reminds of the the Tom Lehrer song from the 60's:
'The whole world is festering with unhappy souls,
The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles,
Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch,
And we don't like anybody very much.'
Czesc,
Leszek
John Walker
>
> > John Walker (JohnW...@cheerful.com) wrote:
> >
> > : What generates hatred towards Poles?
> > :
> > : Poland is the world's most Catholic country.
> > : Naturally, Poland becomes the target of the world's religious bigotry.
>
Lech K. Lesiak wrote:
> Little simplistic, I think. John Walker: Of course, it was meant to be.
====================
>In fact, everyone in that part of the world hates everyone else. JW: Why limit this phenomenon only to "that part of the world"?
This too is simplistic, eh?
===================
Slovaks hate Czechs and Hungarians. Czechs hate
> Germans. Everyone hates Jews and gypsies. No need to mention Serbs and
> Croats, I think. There are many different factors involved in these
> ethnic hatreds, and to attribute them overwhelmingly to only one does a
> disservice to history.
>
> Reminds of the the Tom Lehrer song from the 60's:
>
> 'The whole world is festering with unhappy souls,
> The French hate the Germans, the Germans hate the Poles,
> Italians hate Yugoslavs, South Africans hate the Dutch,
> And we don't like anybody very much.'
<><><><><>< John Walker adds: ><><><><><><><>
They keep on complaining, as everyone knows
They just know they're better, or so they propose.
What they don't realize is what the rest of us think;
That when it comes to show love, we all think they stink.
Can there ever be reconciliation?
<><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><>
Reconcilliation - by John Walker (all rights reserved)
<><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><>
I'm getting even
For your getting even
For my getting even with you.
I can't be believing
That you're not believing
That I won't be leaving you, too.
But if we are forgiving,
And I am forgiving,
And you are for giving love true,
Then will be be even,
You will be even,
Even I will be, even with you.
<><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><> JW <><><><>
Love,
JohnW...@cheerful.com
Hansjörg Rothe
In article <01bc6fb5$4e7fe6e0$2b41...@jrb2.ceh.servtech.com>, "Jack R.
Badura" <jrba...@servtech.com> writes
>I have never seen so paranoic, inhuman, prejuduced and simply stupid
>sociaty as AUSTRIANS AND
>GERRIES. Poor folks dwelling on their prejudices and internal stupidity.
>The notion of difference of opinion, origin, ethnicity, nationality and for
>god sake race is strage to thoise primitives.
>after going down the drain in todays world.
>For a change 400 years of stealling and grabbing from the rest of the
>they will get on their assess and try o work and produce.
Hansjoerg Rothe, Ro...@rothe.demon.co.uk
Martin Paegert
Andrzej Borowiec (junk_mail@junk_mail.com) wrote:
> I hope you don't blame Poles for being unter the soviet boot for 40
> years and their criminal element to develop the economy to match
> the situation...?
Did I leave you with that impression ? I don't know, how it could have
been occured from reading my words.
> They've been neighbors for more than a millenium. Aren't they civilized
> enough now to at least pay no attention to each other?
Should they ? If yes, why ? And how do you think it could work in
practice ?
--
Martin (m...@zenon.prima.ruhr.de)
Roland & Christine Wolf
Hansjörg Rothe <Ro...@rothe.demon.co.uk> schrieb im Beitrag
> ARBEIT MACHT FREI! Lets get `em into camps !
> Hansjoerg Rothe, Ro...@rothe.demon.co.uk
>
Viel geschmackloser ging`s wohl nicht.
Roland Wolf
FLIKER E
Pols and all the Slavs are smart only when they are alone.
When the Germans are present they become inferior and stupid.
The Slavs need at least 1000 years to be half as proud and wealthy as the
Germans. Hey, nothing wrong to be stupid.Just work harder to go out of
STUPIDITY.
FLIKER E
In the meantime you Slavs give a big blow job to the Germans.
Jacek Swietonski
What is a Pol?
FLIKER E
You can make it OLE instead of POLE.
Pol, sounds interesting and chic. You could be confused with a nation of
Politicians.Ole is also appealing. Or, it could very well be POPE.
It could.
Leszek Andrzej Kleczkowski
FLIKER E (fli...@aol.com) wrote:
: Pols and all the Slavs are smart only when they are alone.
That's a heck of a generalisation, Mr(s). Fliker. Were Eastern Germans
under Honecker proud and wealthy? Or were they inferior and stupid?
Are you a Pol or German, Mr(s) Fliker?. Or none of the above? I am just
courious whether you are self-hater or uber-folk representative.
Leszek
---
Leszek A. Kleczkowski, les...@sun.fysbot.umu.se
http://www.plantphys.umu.se/~leszek/
Jacek Swietonski
I'd like to answer you my friend, but I don't know what the hell you're
saying.
WaRR
FLIKER E wrote:
>
> In the meantime you Slavs give a big blow job to the Germans.
German whores have been banging everybody in Denmark,
Switzerland, France and Holland for half a century.
So whats your point ?
Besides why is there so much hate towards Germany in
neighboring countries ? Even in the US in some areas
Germans are treated like shit.
WaRR
Wlodek Richter
FLIKER E wrote:
>
/............./
You need at least 2000 years to be half as wise as a donkey.
--
Wlodek
..."Jestem Czlowiekiem - wiec mam obowiazki antyWaRRiackie"
Wlodek Richter, "MYSLI NOWOCZESNEGO CZLOWIEKA"
Wlodek Richter
Jacek Swietonski wrote:
>
> What is a Pol?
50% of Pol-Pot
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.
FLIKER E (fli...@aol.com) wrote:
: Pols and all the Slavs are smart only when they are alone.
: When the Germans are present they become inferior and stupid.
: The Slavs need at least 1000 years to be half as proud and wealthy as the
: Germans. Hey, nothing wrong to be stupid.Just work harder to go out of
: STUPIDITY.
Great fasci joke from Aushwitz above...
OKay ganstass we gonna work harder...
Pearlmz
did you say GERMS!
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.
: I'd like to answer you my friend, but I don't know what the hell you're
: saying.
That's it. Perhaps those who hate are dirty Hitlersons commies.
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D.
Jack R. Badura (jrba...@servtech.com) wrote:
: We have simply different personalities.
: poles are thinking individualistic people.
: Germans fall into a pyramidical stupidity chain.
: They act as ants for o common cause trying to benefit
: "a little" for themselves.
: Simple Darwinian jungle instinct, where the strongest wins.
: It works.
: Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D. <ra...@david.silesia.pik-net.pl> wrote in article
: <5pdh4p$p...@info.nask.pl>...
: > FLIKER E (fli...@aol.com) wrote:
: > : Pols and all the Slavs are smart only when they are alone.
: Yes Poles , we are smart as individuals, we lose as a group.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: ********************************************
: > : When the Germans are present they become inferior and stupid.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: *****************************************
: Yehh but they act in unisome. Masses make the difference.
: Gerries acted in unisome and]
: they overwhelmed.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: ***********************************************************
: > : The Slavs need at least 1000 years to be half as proud and wealthy as
: the
: > : Germans.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: ********************************
: Not necesserily, Poles where not any poorer than Gerries especially in
: agricultural society.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: *****************************************
: Hey, nothing wrong to be stupid.Just work harder to go out of
: > : STUPIDITY.
!!!I have not written this...GK
: **********************************
: Good advice. What is stupidity ??
: ***************************************************
: > Great fasci joke from Aushwitz above...
!!!I have written only THIS line above
I mean fascists in Auschwitz were often saying to Jews and Poles:
"Work harder and ya gonna be free" The only freedom they've got was
that after death.
Over the main gate there has been written "Arbeit macht frei"-
what means "work gives freedom"
The only freedom they've found it was in gas chambers and ovens where they
have been cremated.
Hence saying "work harder to get ...." is kind of a fasci joke, since no matter
how hard Poles work nazi mafia will do everything to damn this nation.
: ***********************************************
: Fortunately, the Europeenos can not do it any more. At least for the time
: being.
: They had their 400 years and now is a time to get at their asses and work
: for a change.
: Good prospects.
: Do you see Europe fourishing????
: Not being able to grab any more. ???
!!!I have not written this either
: ************************
: Take care.
: Jack
GK
John Krist
Interesting. These Germans never change. Even an United Europe has to keep
one eye on the Germans.
Jack R. Badura
We have simply different personalities.
poles are thinking individualistic people.
Germans fall into a pyramidical stupidity chain.
They act as ants for o common cause trying to benefit
"a little" for themselves.
Simple Darwinian jungle instinct, where the strongest wins.
It works.
Grzegorz Kruk Ph.D. <ra...@david.silesia.pik-net.pl> wrote in article
<5pdh4p$p...@info.nask.pl>...
> FLIKER E (fli...@aol.com) wrote:
> : Pols and all the Slavs are smart only when they are alone.
******************************************
Yes Poles , we are smart as individuals, we lose as a group.
> : When the Germans are present they become inferior and stupid.
Yehh but they act in unisome. Masses make the difference.
Gerries acted in unisome and]
they overwhelmed.
> : The Slavs need at least 1000 years to be half as proud and wealthy as
the
> : Germans.
Not necesserily, Poles where not any poorer than Gerries especially in
agricultural society.
Hey, nothing wrong to be stupid.Just work harder to go out of
> : STUPIDITY.
Good advice. What is stupidity ??
***************************************************
> Great fasci joke from Aushwitz above...
Fortunately, the Europeenos can not do it any more. At least for the time
being.
They had their 400 years and now is a time to get at their asses and work
for a change.
Good prospects.
Do you see Europe fourishing????
Not being able to grab any more. ???
Take care.
Jack