>On 10 Apr 97 at 17:21, ademola Iyi-Eweka wrote:
>
>> Dear Nubi:
>> Go ask the Obis of Agbor, Umunede,Owa,etc and their chiefs if they are
Ibos.
>> Go ask of the Obi of Onitsha and his chiefs if they are Ibos. My father is
>> the Enogie of Oghada, principally made of five quarters and three
dialects of
Before you run off Ademola I have one question. Where are the Edo people
from originally? I am sure they migrated from some where and did not
sprout from the Benin soil. I would like to know because I would rather
call the Bini people the name of where they migrated from and associate
them to the ethnic group they migrated from rather than whom they are
today. This is what you have been trying to do to other ethnic groups
(strip them of their identity) in your attempt to paint the glory days of
Benin empire.
Chief Iwelumo
=============
Are the folks from Onitcha-Ugbo Benin people? I know a number of folks
from Onitcha Ugbo and their reaction to this would be "So!"
Nubi Achebo
===========
I have nothing against your historical account below, but it
contradicts totally with Leonard Nwaigbo's account.
In my opinion, Nwaigbo's historical account seem to posses a
highier logical conviction. It seem to inhere a complete history.
It is also possible from his story to connect the scanty Benin
cultural influences, particularly as they seem well blended or
mixed.
Nwaigbo's historical accuracy can also be supported by the fact
that Edo language is not spoken in any of these areas with supposed-
ly Edo influences. How can these Igbo areas be logically said to
fall under the Bini empire without genuine linguistic influences?
How is it possible? Not even one complet sentence?
The scanty occurence of Edo names here and there is not just enough
to generalize Edo direct influences. These names could have come
through Eze Chima homeward trip.
The epithet "OSA" or "OSE" in Igbo names is short for Olisa. Hence we
have: Osadebe for Olisadebe.
Osemeka for Olisaemeka; Osemedua for Olisamedua; Osakwe for Olisakwe.
Now, do not tell me that Olisa, which is a term used throughout the
Anambara areas of Igboland is an Edo name? And even if similar, is
there any liguistic laws that forbids such occurences?
Odogwu is also a name generally referred to a great man throughout
the Igboland. If the same term is found in Benin, how do we know if
it was originally not from Igbo and carried to Benin by Eze Chima?
Fortunately, Asaba is not one of the decendants of Eze Chima. Nnebisi
came directly from Agbakuba Village in Nteje in the Broad Anambara
region accross the river Niger to settle in Ahaba(m) or destined
choice or Asaba. It is true that we have the Iyase and the Odogwu,
which is connected to the Ine festival, but that does not explain
a Bini influence in Asaba. In fact the reverse could have been the
case!
I suggest that we should compare carefully both accounts of the
Bini/Ika Igbo history. I do not think that one accepts the name of a
conqueror or a colonialist with ease. If the relationship of the
Binis with the Ikas were of a violent confrontation as the 'Ekumeku'
war of Ubulu-Uku
was said to have taken, it is then quite illogical that the Ikas would
have taken with ease Edo names. But on the contrary, if the Edo
influences came by peaceful influence or through Eze Chima, then the
Bini influences in these areas, left through names and titles etc,
would appear logical.
Rgsd.,
Sunny Odum.
Ps. Ademola, incase you read this, may I inform you that my reference
to your accounts as 'lies' does not imply 'name' calling. To tell to
someone not to be 'silly' does not imply that one is silly. Our
responses reflect exactly what our respective people were to each
other from time immemorial. There is salt and there is water. They
should be stored separately.
On 13 Apr 97 at 10:07, Kenneth C. Iwelumo wrote:
> Dear Mr Iyi Eweka,
>
> I have enjoyed many of your write ups on the history of the Benin Empire.
> Keep up the good work. How ever I have to disagree with your assertion the
> Ika people are not Ibos. They speak a dialect of Ibo now known as Ika Ibo.
> The Ika's like other Ibo groups in what used to be known as Asaba Division
> have always been under the influence of the Benin Empire. The closer you are
> to Benin the greater the influence.
>
> Some people in these areas bear a combination of Bini/Ibo names. Osafiana,
> Osadebe, Osadume, Nwainukpor, Atuboko, Okoh, Odogwu, Owelle, Ugezene,
> Isibor, Mosindi to name a few. Just as some of us bear a combination of
> English and Nigerian names. Benin was to Southern Nigeria two hundred years
> ago what England was to Nigeria in recent history. The ruling and upper
> classes of various Mid-West Ibo groups assimilated the Benin culture and
> technology (in varying degrees) including social hierarchy, certain customs
> and traditional titles. The Agbogidi, Iyase, Isama, Uwolo, Oguluzeme,
> Odogwu, Owelle, Okwelegwe and Alibo are examples of traditional chiftaincy
> titles borrowed from the Bini. The king (Obi) of Onicha-Ugbo's full title is
> Agbogidi Obi Emenem 1. His salutation is Obi Agu. The fact that he has a
> bini title does not make him a bini.
>
> Agbor has been an Ibo town for several hundred years. NCNC and the Eastern
> Ibos have nothing to do with the Iboness of Agbor. It has been subjugated on
> several occasions by the Bini. Agbor at various times has been an outpost, a
> camp and a garrison town in the Benin empire. The heavy influence of the
> Benin empire on the Ika Ibos does not in any way change their basic Iboness.
>
> Lagos (Eko) was a Bini outpost (Eko is a Bini word for camp) as was Ado
> Ekiti and Akoko Edo. While people in these areas imbibed a lot of the Bini
> culture, it did not negate their yorubaness. ( A digression - In an attempt
> to avoid the Bini army, a group of Yorubas from Akoko Edo migrated eastward
> 150 years ago and settled in my town - Onicha-Ugbo. They have so completely
> assimilated the Ibo culture that it is difficult to believe that their great
> grand parents were Yorubas. They are known as the Ikoko people. Ikoko is the
> Ibonised word for Akoko).
>
> The ruling and upper classes amongst the Ika people and members of the Eze
> Chima clan trace part of their lineage to the royal families of Benin. The
> ordinary people are Ibos pure and simple.
>
> The influence of the old Benin empire was a lot. Communities which failed to
> pay homage to the Oba of Benin were subject to attacks from the Benin army.
> Two of the most feared of the Bini Generals were Gbunwala also known as
> Imaran Adiagbon and Emokpaogbe, the Agboghidi (Onogie) of Ugo. The impact of
> several invasions including the attack on Ubulu Uku eventually lead to the
> founding of Onicha-Mili or Onitsha as it is known today by members of the
> Eze Chime clan.
>
> Ibos have always had a extraordinary tendency to assimilate the cultures of
> their neigbors. Afikpo - Efik and Ibibios, Ikwere - Okrika/Ijaw, Nnsukka -
> Igala/Idoma and Ika/Kwale and to a lesser extent Anioma - Bini. In modern
> times the English culture
>
> As far as Delta Ibos are concerned, we are as Ibo as any other Ibo. As for
> Igbanke, it is not uncommon for some groups (Ikwerre/Ogoni/Bonny) to place
> economics and political power over social, linguistic and cultural ties.
> Recently, Retired Rear Admiral Aigkhomu (sorry about the wrong spelling) in
> an attempt to reduce the influence of the Bini on the Isans campaigned for a
> separate Isan/Ibo state. He actually claimed kinship with the Ika Ibos to
> support his position.
>
> Regards
>
> Chief Kenneth C. Iwelumo
> The Alibo of Onicha-Ugbo
> Aniocha North LGA
> Delta State.
>
> At 05:21 PM 4/10/97 -0600, you wrote:
> >Dear Nubi:
> >Go ask the Obis of Agbor, Umunede,Owa,etc and their chiefs if they are Ibos.
> >Go ask of the Obi of Onitsha and his chiefs if they are Ibos. My father is
> >the Enogie of Oghada, principally made of five quarters and three dialects of
> >of Edo-Bini, Ishan[Esan] including Idumwodin and Ogbahu both Ikas [Ekas].
> >Oghada is seperated from Ozanogogoro by river Orhionmwon.We farm across the
> >river and they do the do the same.We marry and live together. Ozanogogoro
> >was carved into Ika local govt Council because of river Orhionmwon. Many
> >residents of Ozanogogoro has crossed the river to settle with their brethren
> >at Ozanisi-five miles from Oghada.This is my backyard brother Nubi Achebo.
> >The grandfather of the Present Obi of Agbor was called Obika Igbinoba. Is
> >Igbinoba[translated Oba of Benin is my refguge] an Ibo name? When he
> >died,his succesor under pressure from the Ibo elements on his mothers side
> >wanted to Ibonise The Obiship of Agbor. He took the title
> >IKECHUKU[ God is my refuge].Unfortunately he died after about four or five
> >years on the throne and there was problem with the REGENCY COUNCIL which
> >they had formed to rule on behalf of the three year old boy he left behind.
> >The Benin royal family working with Bendel state govt had to smuuggle that
> >boy out of Agbor for safety after being crowned the Obi Of Agbor. I believe
> >he is still living in USA-a young teenager studying. When challenged, we told
> >the Ibo elements in Agbor[and they are many] we have vested interest in the
> >survival of the boy-king and stool of Agbor.
> >When Oba Akenzua the second passed away in 1978, UMUNEDE became the
> >headquarter of the ancient Benin Empire for about three weeks before the
> >coronation of Oba Erediauwa.Please my brother,THE IKAS[EKAS] ARE NOT IBOS.
> >AND THE IBOS ARE NOT IKAS[EKAS]. What you saw at Agbor when you were
> >growing up was the result of the efforts of Ika/Ibo Association an N.C.N.C
> >political offshoot.
> >Have you ever wondered why IGBANKE[ A LARGE IKA/EKA SPEAKING COMMUNITY] is
> >not in Ika Local govt Area but decided to stay in Benin Division? Igbanke
> >is eight miles from my "dukedom"brother Nubi.Most Ekas/Ikas bear Edo names.
> >This is my last comment on this issue.
> >
> >Iyi Eweka.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In message Wed, 09 Apr 1997 18:55:23 -0600,
> > Nubi Achebo <ki...@radiks.net> writes:
> >
> >> At 05:27 AM 4/9/97 -0600, ademola Iyi-Eweka wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dennis Osadebey the first premier of the Midwestern State, the Ekas will
> >>> tell you to your face that they are not "IGBOS".
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't know about this Ademola. Even my friend from Ozanogogo, a town
> >> technically under the local government once headquatered at Abudu, doesn't
> >> like to be associated with Benin/Edo or the local government. Being an
> >> Agbor born (catholic hospital near old Mary Mount College) and spending
> >> most of my youth holidaying and working at Agbor; I have never noticed the
> >> sentiments you express here - that the Ika's don't see themselbves as
> >> (midwest/bendel/delta) Igbos/Ibos.
> >>
> >> Nubi Achebo
> >> Nubi Achebo
> >> ===========
> >>
> >
> >
>
At 10:46 AM 4/13/97 -0400, Kenneth C. Iwelumo wrote:
>Dear Mr Achebo,
>
>The peoples from Kwale, Ndokwa, Ika, Aniocha and Oshimili are all Ibos or
>Igbos. These groups have always been called Western Ibos, Mid-Western Ibos,
>Bendel Ibos and lately Delta Ibos. We call our selves ndi Enuani or Anioma.
>
>Mr Iyi Eweka erred in calling us Edos. We are not Edos. We are Ibos pure and
>simple. Having European names and assimilating some European culture does
Nubi Achebo
===========
Adesoji O. Adelaja wrote:
>
> For example, between the time that the first Ijebus left Nubia (Southern
> Sudan) and when they arrived in present day Ijebuland, they experienced
> 40 years of sojourn in Hausaland. I am sure, given the pattern of
> hereditary co-mingling at the time, the geniology became mixed. By the
> way, the Ijebus themselves had originated from the middle east (the same
> Jebusites in the bible) and migrated to Southern Sudan where they and
> the Yorubas (Yarbas) were sister nations.
Rev. Johnson's "History of Yoruba" contradicts version of Ijebu
history. According to Johnson, Ijebu people of today are descended from
the Benin royal family. A rebellious prince was to be executed but his
handlers let him go! As for the name, it was decoded to mean "Ije Ibu"
meaning "feed for the waterside".
`
As we all know, human sacrifice was big during the Benin epoch. Whole
communities were created for sacrificial human beings. Whenever the
oracle asked for blood, the Edos would simply reach into one of the many
camps and take those they would sacrifice. Some of these ancient camps
emerged into towns and cities. A good example, according to Rev.
Johnson is the Ijesha people whose homeland is called Ilesha. As
deciphered, Ijesha were a people encamped for the purpose of human
sacrifice, hence the label Ije Orisha or "feed for the orisha".