Sofa logia apo to Sta8opoulo.
k0mis
"Αν όλοι οι άλλοι πλην του ενός θέλουν να καταργήσουν τα ατομικά δικαιώματα
αυτό δεν μπορούν να το πετύχουν", είπε ο κ. Σταθόπουλος.
Arage giati ayta ta logia den t'akouei ki o idios kai h kybernhsh, pou toso
"sklhroi" kai adiallaktoi mas parousiazontai??
Krima, krima...
Krima omws kai gia thn antipoliteysh, pou anti na rwthsei ey8ews thn
kybernhsh sth boulh poies einai oi pro8eseis ths sto 8ema twn politikwn
gamwn kai ths allaghs ths Ellhnikhs shmaias, meta tis taytothtes, ka8etai
kai 3ynetai... Dystyxws...
Gia na dw ti 8a ginei, otan arxisoun na mas milane gia allagh ths shmaias...
Gia na dw, posoi apo mas 8a poulhsoume to aima twn pappoudwn mas pou
polemhsan enantion twn fasistwn gi'ayth th shmaia...
Xairetw,
Antreas.
--------------------------
Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis ths
Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the undersigned.
------------------------
replace the [dot]s with real dots to reply
omadeon
"k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
> Gia na dw, posoi apo mas 8a poulhsoume to aima twn pappoudwn mas pou
> polemhsan enantion twn fasistwn gi'ayth th shmaia...
> Xairetw,
> Antreas.
Kat'arxhn Antrea mou to aima twn pappoudwn mas DEN
mporei na poulh8ei, dioti einai palio kai den exei
kammia emporikh aksia shmera.
Omws OYDEIS prokeitai na allaksei th shmaia, dioti den
uparxei kanenas apolutws logos, plhn ths mazikhs psyxwshs
kai _manias katadiwkshs_ pou espeire o Xristodoulos, kai
tsimphses ki esy, opws polloi alloi.
Pantws h PRAGMATIKH kai oxi tupikh shmaia tou Skyladistan
shmera einai kokkinh me misofeggaro kai ena... mpouzouki
sth mesh anti gi'asteri. Ta mona asteria einai ta... pipinia
tou Soultanou, pou anebainoune sto trapezi tou kai xoreuoyn
tsiftenteli.
Aferim efenti'm
Omadeon
anti-skyladiko electronic music sites:
http://omadeon.iuma.com
http://www.mp3.com/omadeon
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ji...@my-deja.com
"k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
> "Αν όλοι οι άλλοι πλην του ενός θέλουν να καταργήσουν τα ατομικά
δικαιώματα
> αυτό δεν μπορούν να το πετύχουν", είπε ο κ. Σταθόπουλος.
>
> Arage giati ayta ta logia den t'akouei ki o idios kai h kybernhsh,
pou toso
> "sklhroi" kai adiallaktoi mas parousiazontai??
> Krima, krima...
> Krima omws kai gia thn antipoliteysh, pou anti na rwthsei ey8ews thn
> kybernhsh sth boulh poies einai oi pro8eseis ths sto 8ema twn
politikwn
> gamwn kai ths allaghs ths Ellhnikhs shmaias, meta tis taytothtes,
ka8etai
> kai 3ynetai... Dystyxws...
Einai gegonos i oxi oti i anagrafi (estw kai proeretiki) toy
thriskeymatos stis taytotites einai moxlos gia diakrisi twn politwn me
vasi tis thriskeytikes toys pepithiseis?
Tha ithela mia apli eythia apantisi se ayto to erwtima.
Dimitris
Praxandros 21
upochorisi ---ena Dialogo.
Ypochorisi/Parachorisi ??? Astieueste. Nai men i Kyvernisi/Simiti fimizetai
gia tis poliarithmes kai katapliktikes upochoriseis, alla as mi xechname
oti tauta einai apoklistika pronomion mono diathetimeno stous ischirous
geitones filous mas. O Archiepiskopos kati xerei otan legei, ...simera
auto...aurio touto... tou chronou ekeino.
Pantos, ...Ellas apochristianopoiimeni den einai Ellas.
Xtes-00k
Andrea, sumfono apolutos me tis gnomes sou.
k0mis <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote in message
news:8iv6kq$96j$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com...
> MPA, 22 Jun 00:
> "Αν όλοι οι άλλοι πλην του ενός θέλουν να καταργήσουν τα ατομικά
δικαιώματα
> αυτό δεν μπορούν να το πετύχουν", είπε ο κ. Σταθόπουλος.
>
> Arage giati ayta ta logia den t'akouei ki o idios kai h kybernhsh, pou
toso
> "sklhroi" kai adiallaktoi mas parousiazontai??
> Krima, krima...
> Krima omws kai gia thn antipoliteysh, pou anti na rwthsei ey8ews thn
> kybernhsh sth boulh poies einai oi pro8eseis ths sto 8ema twn politikwn
> gamwn kai ths allaghs ths Ellhnikhs shmaias, meta tis taytothtes, ka8etai
> kai 3ynetai... Dystyxws...
> Gia na dw ti 8a ginei, otan arxisoun na mas milane gia allagh ths
shmaias...
> Gia na dw, posoi apo mas 8a poulhsoume to aima twn pappoudwn mas pou
> polemhsan enantion twn fasistwn gi'ayth th shmaia...
> Xairetw,
> Antreas.
>
k0mis
Loipon opws pisteyw oti 3ereis ki esy, h shmaia mas einai opws einai giati
anaparista orismena stoixeia opws:
-O ari8mos twn rigwn ths einai o ari8mos tws syllabwn ths frasews "Eley8eria
h 8anatos"
-Einai galazia gia na symbolizei ton Ellhniko ourano kai th 8alassa mas
-Einai leykh gia ta synnefa kai ta kymata
-Exei ena stayro gia na deixnei th pisth tou e8nous sto Xristo.
Afou loipon symfwna me ton k.Dafermo kai tous filous tou h ka8e anafora sto
8rhskeyma apotelei parabiash twn dikaiwmatwn mas, pws einai dynaton ena
tetoio ypereyais8hto kai kalo kratos na katapiezei ta dikaiwmata tou ka8e
tou polith pou 8elei na mhn einai or8odo3o to kratos kai px na exei ki ena
misofeggaro sth shmaia?? :)
Blepeis loipon oti symfwna me tous ypoptous typous pou mas kybernoun, ola
einai dynata :) Elpizw otan me8ayrio mas epiballoun na alla3oume th shmaia
mas na se brw dipla mou na fwna3oume mazi thn arnhsh mas.
Antreas.
YG: Mallon ennoeis ena krama kokkinhs me misofeggaro, mple me asteria kai
asprokokkinomple me alla asteria. Mhn 3exname kai tis dytikes epirroes e?
--
------------------------
Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis ths
Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the undersigned.
------------------------
replace the [dot]s with real dots to reply
omadeon wrote in message <8ivomd$v4d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <8iv6kq$96j$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,
> "k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
>
>> Gia na dw, posoi apo mas 8a poulhsoume to aima twn pappoudwn mas pou
>> polemhsan enantion twn fasistwn gi'ayth th shmaia...
>> Xairetw,
>> Antreas.
>
>
>Kat'arxhn Antrea mou to aima twn pappoudwn mas DEN
>mporei na poulh8ei, dioti einai palio kai den exei
>kammia emporikh aksia shmera.
>
>Omws OYDEIS prokeitai na allaksei th shmaia, dioti den
>uparxei kanenas apolutws logos, plhn ths mazikhs psyxwshs
>kai _manias katadiwkshs_ pou espeire o Xristodoulos, kai
>tsimphses ki esy, opws polloi alloi.
>
>Pantws h PRAGMATIKH kai oxi tupikh shmaia tou Skyladistan
>shmera einai kokkinh me misofeggaro kai ena... mpouzouki
>sth mesh anti gi'asteri. Ta mona asteria einai ta... pipinia
>tou Soultanou, pou anebainoune sto trapezi tou kai xoreuoyn
>tsiftenteli.
>
>Aferim efenti'm
>Omadeon
>anti-skyladiko electronic music sites:
>http://omadeon.iuma.com
>http://www.mp3.com/omadeon
>
>
k0mis
ka8olou proairetiko), h profora, h perioxh proeleyshs, h oikogeneiakh
katastash, h ekplhrwsh stratiwtikwn ypoxrewsewn, h katoxh ptyxiou, h katoxh
adeias odhghsews ktl ktl...
H mh anagrafh den 8a ypoxrewsei tous ratsistes kai tous diakrinontes na
ginoun kalyteroi h xeiroteroi. Mhn trelenaisai file...
Pes oti eimai ergodoths. Den me empodizei kaneis na se balw na mou fereis
pistopoihtiko apo poia ekklhsia eisai grammenos, h na se balw na dhlwseis ti
pisteyeis kata thn ypografh mias symbashs ergasias meta3y mas...
Aytoi pou 8eloun na diakrinoun symfwna me to 8rhskeyma (pou prepei na einai
APEIROELAXISTOI sthn xwra mas, th ligotero ratsistikh ths Eyrwphs), 8a exoun
panta tropo na to kanoun.
Me sygxwreis pou sto lew alla se ti paramy8ia zeis? Me ti blakeies sou
mpoukwnoun to myalo? Mhn akous oti sou lene, sou poulane fykia gia meta3wtes
kordeles kai ta agorazeis?
Nomizeis ki esy oti h Ellada 8a einai enas teleios paradeisos, oti ola 8a
einai wraia kai kala? As gelasw.
Sygnwmh kai pali file, alla mhn eisai afelhs. Edw pnigomaste, oi taytothes
mas maranane....
--
------------------------
Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis ths
Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the undersigned.
------------------------
replace the [dot]s with real dots to reply
ji...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8ivu8k$3j7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <8iv6kq$96j$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,
> "k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
>> MPA, 22 Jun 00:
>> "Αν όλοι οι άλλοι πλην του ενός θέλουν να καταργήσουν τα ατομικά
>δικαιώματα
>> αυτό δεν μπορούν να το πετύχουν", είπε ο κ. Σταθόπουλος.
>>
>> Arage giati ayta ta logia den t'akouei ki o idios kai h kybernhsh,
>pou toso
>> "sklhroi" kai adiallaktoi mas parousiazontai??
>> Krima, krima...
>> Krima omws kai gia thn antipoliteysh, pou anti na rwthsei ey8ews thn
>> kybernhsh sth boulh poies einai oi pro8eseis ths sto 8ema twn
>politikwn
>> gamwn kai ths allaghs ths Ellhnikhs shmaias, meta tis taytothtes,
>ka8etai
>> kai 3ynetai... Dystyxws...
>
>
>Einai gegonos i oxi oti i anagrafi (estw kai proeretiki) toy
>thriskeymatos stis taytotites einai moxlos gia diakrisi twn politwn me
>vasi tis thriskeytikes toys pepithiseis?
>
>Tha ithela mia apli eythia apantisi se ayto to erwtima.
>
>Dimitris
>
>
ji...@my-deja.com
einai, alla o monos tropos gia na ftasei ekei einai i diarkhs esto kai
argh veltiwsi. Ayth i leptomeria pou les exei simasia, giati allo
aytheresia ergodoti kai allo aytheresia toy kratoys. Ap oti kserw h
uryskeytikes pepithiseis exoyn ginei antikeimeno diakrhsewn sto
parelthon, kai i katarghsh tis anagrafhs einai ena mikro vima mprosta
pros ena orthologika organomeno kratos. Fysika den lynei ola ta alla
provlimata. Alla to provlima tethike kai prepei na lythei.
Dimitris
In article <8js6ls$k3d$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,
k0mis
sta sxoleia, prepei na ma8oun ta paidia na blepoun ton mousoulmano kai ton
allodapo synan8rwpo mas ws an8rwpo kai mono ws an8rwpo. Ta paidia ayta 8a
megalwsoun kai 8a dida3oun ta idia pragmata sta dika tous paidia ktl ktl...
Einai megalh blakeia na pisteyoume oti h mh anagrafh einai beltiwsh giati
opws sou eipa kai prin den einai tipota apolytws. Otan yparxoun atoma pou
8eloun kai pisteyoun stis diakriseis, diakriseis 8a yparxoun panta. As mhn
krybomaste pisw apo to daktylo mas. H mh anagrafh den lynei apolytws tipota,
den exei kanena skopo pera apo to na na anadei3ei to Shmith ws kalo yes-man,
na apokrypsei apo ton kosmo ta pragmatika problhmata kai na poulh8ei
tsampoukas kai magkia gia eswterikh katanalwsh...
An exoume ftasei sto shmeio na exoume problhma me thn anagrafh tou
8rhskeymatos, paei na pei oti sthn Ellhnikh koinwnia yparxei 8rhskeytikos
kai allou eidous ratsismos. Na te8ei loipon 8ema ratsismou, na bgoun kai na
poun ey8ews oti katargoume tis palies taytothtes giati antimetwpizoume
problhma ratsismou kai diakrisewn kai na paradextoun oti pasxoume ws
koinwnia.
Etsi loipon na mas parousiasoun kai ena sobaro sxedio antimetwpishs tou
fainomenou kai oxi na mas lene kai na pernoun thn entypwsh oti ola 8a ly8oun
me th mh anagrafh, kai oti 8a ginoume taxa monternoi kai eyrwpaioi kai mh
katapiestes twn dikaiwmatwn me thn allagh twn taytothtwn.
Ayta einai kourafe3ala pou mas taizoune kai emeis sa zwa ta trwme. Sorry
file alla etsi einai, eite to paradexesai eite oxi.
Proswpika den 3erw kanena atomo pou na exei pesei 8yma 8rhskeytikou
ratsismou. Oloi sxedon oi Albanoi einai mousoulmanoi, eides kanena na leei
den 8a ton proslabw giati einai mousoulmanos? Polla zeygaria pou 3erw sthn
Patra einai ka8olikoi, Aggloi, Galloi, Italoi alla kai Ellhnes, kai kaneis
tous den eixe pote problhma eyreshs ergasias h enta3hs sthn Ellhnikh
koinwnia. Malista kapoioi apo aytous douleyoun kai sto dhmosio tomea kai
oloi tous eylogoun thn wra pou phran thn apofash kai hr8an sthn Ellada.
Loipon as mhn krybomaste pisw apo to daktylo mas, kai na mhn trwme tis
blakeies kai ta psemata pou bgainoun kai eykola mas lene.
Sto epanalambanw, an yparxei problhma 8rhskeytikou ratsismou, ayto DEN
LYNETAI me thn mh anagrafh...
Filika,
Antreas.
ji...@my-deja.com
σημαντικό.
In article <8jsel7$kq6$1...@mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com>,
"k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
> To problhma de lynetai me th mh anagrafh re megale... To problhma
lynetai
> sta sxoleia, prepei na ma8oun ta paidia na blepoun ton mousoulmano
kai ton
> allodapo synan8rwpo mas ws an8rwpo kai mono ws an8rwpo. Ta paidia
ayta 8a
> megalwsoun kai 8a dida3oun ta idia pragmata sta dika tous paidia ktl
ktl...
Μέχρι εδώ καλά τα λες.
> Einai megalh blakeia na pisteyoume oti h mh anagrafh einai beltiwsh
giati
> opws sou eipa kai prin den einai tipota apolytws. Otan yparxoun atoma
pou
> 8eloun kai pisteyoun stis diakriseis, diakriseis 8a yparxoun panta.
As mhn
> krybomaste pisw apo to daktylo mas.
Και μεχρι εδώ περίπου καλά.
> H mh anagrafh den lynei apolytws tipota,
> den exei kanena skopo pera apo to na na anadei3ei to Shmith ws kalo
yes-man,
> na apokrypsei apo ton kosmo ta pragmatika problhmata kai na poulh8ei
> tsampoukas kai magkia gia eswterikh katanalwsh...
Εδώ τώρα τα χαλάμε. Το πρόβλημα είναι αντίστροφο. Για κάποιους λόγους,
ίσως δευτερεύοντες, μία επιτροπή ανύποπτη απεφάσισε (και σωστά) να
αφαιρέσει ορισμένα ευαίσθητα στοιχεία από την ταυτότητα. Είναι ίσως
δευτερεύων το θέμα και νομίζω ότι και οι ίδιοι που το αποφάσισαν έτσι
πίστευαν. Όμως η αντίδραση της εκκλησίας, δια του Χριστόδουλου το
ανέδειξε σε πρωτεύον. Με κραυγές κινδυνολογίες, λαοσυνάξεις, κλπ κλπ.
Γιατί κάτι σωστό και δευτερεύον, το αναδυκνιει σε πρωτεύων; Το λέει
μόνος του. Γιατί δεν θέλει διαχωρισμό εκκλισίας-κράτους. Γιατί
ονειρεύεται πολιτικούς ρόλους, όπως όλοι οι μετριοπαθείς δημοσιογράφοι
απισιμένουν. Άρα οποιαδήποτε κυβέρνηση που σέβεται τον εαυτό της δεν θα
υποχωρούσε. Συνεπώς ναι το θέμα της αναγραφής είναι δευτερεύον, αλλά η
υποχώρηση από κάτι σωστό είναι πρωτεύων γιατί διαστρεβλώνει τη σχέση
ορθόδοξης εκκλησίας και κράτους.
Τα άλλα που εμφανίζεις ώς λόγους δεν είναι λογικά, γιατί εφόσον δεν μας
υποχρεώνει η ευρωπαική ένωση, το yes-man είναι παράλογο.
Τελικά καλά όλα αυτά, και το πρόβλημα της γραφής είναι δευτερεύον και
ίσως θα έπρεπε να ασχολούμαστε με άλλα πράγματα, αλλά υποθέτω ότι
συμφωνείς ότι η αναγραφή του είναι λάθος; Τουλάχιστον έτσι συμπερένω
από τα συμφραζόμενά σου.
Δημήτρης
> --
> ------------------------
> Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis ths
> Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
> The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
> Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the undersigned.
> ------------------------
>
>
k0mis
[xrats]
Anarwthsou loipon ki esy, giati h kybernhsh afou to 8ema einai deytereyon
bghke na kanei tous sklhrous antres mprosta sthn Ekklhsia kai sto lao. An
ontws to 8ema den thn ennoiaze kai toso poly, giati den ekane toulaxiston
mia syzhthsh? Estw kai sth Boulh.
An 8ymasai kala, h Ekklhsia den zhthse tipota allo para na ginei enas
dialogos. Den eipe na pa na xestei ki h kybernhsh, emeis 8a kateboume stous
dromous. Zhthse epimona na ginei dialogos gia na akoustei toulaxiston h
apopsh ths se ena 8ema pou thn endiaferei, ws Ekklhsia alla kai ws Ellhnes
polites, alla ta logia ths prosekrousan se wta kleista.
O Shmiths htan aytos pou eipe na pa na xestei h Ekklhsia kai to 60% tou
laou, egw 8a kanw oti 8elw. Kalws h kakws h 8esh ths Ekklhsias ekfrazei
tromera megalo pososto tou Ellhnikou laou, opws apodeiknyoun kai ta
teleytaia gkalop. H pleiopshfia tou laou den eide tis pra3eis tou Shmith ws
adiaforia apenanti sthn Ekklhsia, alla ws pragmatiko grapsimo kai adiaforia
pros to lao.
Na eisai sigouros oti an oi papades legane blakeies kai den e3efrazan to
lao, 8a tous eixe grapsei kai o laos.
To 8ema edw den einai oi taytothtes, alla o aytarxismos pou epideiknyei o
Shmiths apenanti sthn pleiopshfia (apodedeigmena pia) tou Ellhnikou laou.
Ayto EINAI prwteyon 8ema.
Twra oti o Shmiths einai o Yes-man ths Eyrwphs den xreiazetai na sto
apodei3w, alla 8a sta 3anapw mhpws kai ta 3exases:
"Eyxaristoume tous Amerikanous" (pou ypostal8hke h shmaia mas apo to nhsi
mas)
"Oi S300 8a metakinh8oun se meros asfales" (gia thn Tourkia)
"O Otsalan synelhf8h" (meta apo entolh twn HPA)
Ti alla paradeigmata 8es na sou pw. Ayta ta 3exnas, ta 3 paidia pou
skotw8hkane sta Imia ta 3exnas? H mhpws protimas na ta 3exnas....
Stis taytothtes den ton ypoxrewnei h EE, alla ton ypoxrewnoun alla
symferonta (styl kyrios Rozenstein pou mas bghke Rozakhs kai yf.e3.) Ta
3exases ki ayta?
Exeis dikio na les oti alla einai ta problhmata ta megala. Ontws etsi einai,
kai to megalytero ap'ayta einai oi marionetes pou mas kybernoun.
Gia na mhn ypo8eteis, den symfwnw oti h anagrafh einai la8os. Kata bash den
me apasxolei ti grafei h taytothta mou, giati gia osa grafei eimai
perhfanos. Kai gia to onoma mou, kai gia th 8rhskeytikh mou protimhsh kai
gia thn katagwgh mou kai gia ola.
Symfwnw omws oti an esy den 8eleis na ta grafeis ayta sthn taytothta sou
einai dikaiwma sou. An loipon den 8eleis, as mhn ta grafeis. Ase omws emena
pou 8elw na ta grafw.
H proairetikh ypografh einai h swsth lysh. Ef'oson blepeis loipon oti oi
misoi 8eloun anagrafh kai oi alloi misoi den 8eloun, exw tis idies
pi8anothtes na ginw 8yma diakrisewn apo kapoion yper-fileley8ero, oses exeis
ki esy na gineis 8yma apo kapoion yper-8rhskeyomeno. Malista egw exw kai
perissoteres pi8anothtes na me apokalesoun blaxo, amorfwto, opis8odromiko,
palaiomodith, fanatiko, xountiko, akraio kai oti allo epi8eto 8es (opws
e3'allou kai exei ginei s'ayto to newsgroup). Esena to poly poly na se poune
kai a8eo, pragma pou e3'allou eisai an 8ymamai kala apo ta legomena sou.
Loipon pou 8a briskontai ta dika mou proswpika dikaiwmata tote? Mh nomizeis
oti oi mh anagrafontes 8a einai kalyteroi apo tous anagrafontes th 8rhskeia.
Oi idioi kai xeiroteroi 8a einai.
Filika
Andreas.
ji...@my-deja.com
"k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
> Afou symfwnoume se orismena as pame stis diafwnies
> [xrats]
>
> Anarwthsou loipon ki esy, giati h kybernhsh afou to 8ema einai
deytereyon
> bghke na kanei tous sklhrous antres mprosta sthn Ekklhsia kai sto
lao. An
> ontws to 8ema den thn ennoiaze kai toso poly, giati den ekane
toulaxiston
> mia syzhthsh? Estw kai sth Boulh.
Έχω συγκεκριμένα στοιχεία που δήχνουν ότι η Εκκλησία απέφευγε το
διάλογο, με αποτέλεσμα να καθυστερεί η εφαρμογή του νόμου για τα
προσωπικά δεδομένα επι 3 χρόνια.
> An 8ymasai kala, h Ekklhsia den zhthse tipota allo para na ginei enas
> dialogos. Den eipe na pa na xestei ki h kybernhsh, emeis 8a kateboume
stous
> dromous. Zhthse epimona na ginei dialogos gia na akoustei toulaxiston
h
> apopsh ths se ena 8ema pou thn endiaferei, ws Ekklhsia alla kai ws
Ellhnes
> polites, alla ta logia ths prosekrousan se wta kleista.
Αν ισχύει αυτο που είπα παραπάνω τότε όλα όσα λες θα έπρεπε να τα πεις
αντίστροφα.
> O Shmiths htan aytos pou eipe na pa na xestei h Ekklhsia kai to 60%
tou
> laou, egw 8a kanw oti 8elw.
Αφού είναι κυβέρνηση καλως πράττει. Υπάρχουν εκλογές μην ξεχνάς.
> Kalws h kakws h 8esh ths Ekklhsias ekfrazei
> tromera megalo pososto tou Ellhnikou laou, opws apodeiknyoun kai ta
> teleytaia gkalop. H pleiopshfia tou laou den eide tis pra3eis tou
Shmith ws
> adiaforia apenanti sthn Ekklhsia, alla ws pragmatiko grapsimo kai
adiaforia
> pros to lao.
Ισως να είναι ανακριβές αυτό.
> Na eisai sigouros oti an oi papades legane blakeies kai den e3efrazan
to
> lao, 8a tous eixe grapsei kai o laos.
Δεν νομίζω. Ο καλός λαικιστής στα γκάλοπ φαίνεται.
> To 8ema edw den einai oi taytothtes, alla o aytarxismos pou
epideiknyei o
> Shmiths apenanti sthn pleiopshfia (apodedeigmena pia) tou Ellhnikou
laou.
Δεν είναι αταρχισμός. Κυβέρνηση είναι. Και οι κυβερνήσεις δικαιούνται
να πέρνουν μέτρα εναντια στην πλειψηφία, γιατί τελικά απ αυτή θα
κριθούν.
> Ayto EINAI prwteyon 8ema.
> Twra oti o Shmiths einai o Yes-man ths Eyrwphs den xreiazetai na sto
> apodei3w, alla 8a sta 3anapw mhpws kai ta 3exases:
> "Eyxaristoume tous Amerikanous" (pou ypostal8hke h shmaia mas apo to
nhsi
> mas)
> "Oi S300 8a metakinh8oun se meros asfales" (gia thn Tourkia)
> "O Otsalan synelhf8h" (meta apo entolh twn HPA)
Παρδόξως τα δύο παραδείγματα σου δήχνουν το αδιέξωδο μιας χώρας χωρίς
ισχυ. Στα Ιμια υποχορήσαμε και ταπεινοθήκαμε. Στον Οτσαλάν πήγαμε να
παίξουμε και πάλι ταπεινωθήκαμε. Δύο αντίθετες πράξεις με το ίδιο
αποτέλεσμα. Γιατί; Γιατί δεν εχουμε σωστό σχεδιασμό και δεν έχουμε και
λεφτά... Αρα τι ρέπει να κάνουμε; Να τα αποκτήσουμε. Αφτό λεω και γώ ο
άμοιρος και αυτό προσπαθεί και ο Σημίτης. Αυτό σημαίνει εκσυγχρονισμός.
Οργάνωση, οικονομική ανάπτυξη που οδηγεί σε ισχύ. Γι αυτό χρειάζεσαι
επιστήμονες, τεχνοκράτες και διανοούμενους. Όμως ο Λαουτζίκος δεν τα
καταλαβένει αυτά. Και ψάχνει για σωτήρες μολυς τα βρεί σκούρα. Και οι
σωτήρες τότε εμφανίζονται, να είσαι σίγουρος. Μέχρι την επόμενη
καταστροφή, όπου κάποιος θα φταίει και κάποιος θα αναλ΄βει τη σωτηρία
μας.
> Ti alla paradeigmata 8es na sou pw. Ayta ta 3exnas, ta 3 paidia pou
> skotw8hkane sta Imia ta 3exnas? H mhpws protimas na ta 3exnas....
Μη γίνεσαι γελίος
> Stis taytothtes den ton ypoxrewnei h EE, alla ton ypoxrewnoun alla
> symferonta (styl kyrios Rozenstein pou mas bghke Rozakhs kai yf.e3.)
Τι θες να πεις; Οτί οι Εβραίοι μας διαπλέκουν;
> Ta
> 3exases ki ayta?
Τι να ξεχάσω, αυτά ούτε που τα ακούω. Όλο οι 'αλλοι και τα συμφέροντα
φτένε. Μήπως ξέχασες κάποιον;
> Exeis dikio na les oti alla einai ta problhmata ta megala. Ontws etsi
einai,
> kai to megalytero ap'ayta einai oi marionetes pou mas kybernoun.
> Gia na mhn ypo8eteis, den symfwnw oti h anagrafh einai la8os. Kata
bash den
> me apasxolei ti grafei h taytothta mou, giati gia osa grafei eimai
> perhfanos.
Η ταυτότητα δεν εξυπηρετεί στο να αναφέρει αυτά για τα αποία είσαι
υπερήφανος. Αυτό είναι η απλούστερη και πλήρης απάντηση στο βασικό
ερώτημα. Αλλά για σενα ίσως να είναι λεπτομέρια.
> Kai gia to onoma mou, kai gia th 8rhskeytikh mou protimhsh kai
> gia thn katagwgh mou kai gia ola.
> Symfwnw omws oti an esy den 8eleis na ta grafeis ayta sthn taytothta
sou
> einai dikaiwma sou. An loipon den 8eleis, as mhn ta grafeis. Ase omws
emena
> pou 8elw na ta grafw.
Μα το θέμα δεν είναι ότι δεν θέλω να πρβάλλω τα πιστεύω μου ή τις
πεποιθήσεις μου, αλλά ότι δεν είναι σωστό η Ορθόδοξη Εκκλησία να μου
επιβάλλει να τα προβάλλω. Και τα προβάλλω υποχρεωτικά όταν η η αναγραφή
είναι προεραιτική. Καταλαβένεις τη διαφορα;
> H proairetikh ypografh einai h swsth lysh. Ef'oson blepeis loipon oti
oi
> misoi 8eloun anagrafh kai oi alloi misoi den 8eloun, exw tis idies
> pi8anothtes na ginw 8yma diakrisewn apo kapoion yper-fileley8ero,
oses exeis
> ki esy na gineis 8yma apo kapoion yper-8rhskeyomeno. Malista egw exw
kai
> perissoteres pi8anothtes na me apokalesoun blaxo, amorfwto,
opis8odromiko,
> palaiomodith, fanatiko, xountiko, akraio kai oti allo epi8eto 8es
(opws
> e3'allou kai exei ginei s'ayto to newsgroup). Esena to poly poly na
se poune
> kai a8eo, pragma pou e3'allou eisai an 8ymamai kala apo ta legomena
sou.
> Loipon pou 8a briskontai ta dika mou proswpika dikaiwmata tote? Mh
nomizeis
> oti oi mh anagrafontes 8a einai kalyteroi apo tous anagrafontes th
8rhskeia.
> Oi idioi kai xeiroteroi 8a einai.
Δεν έχει σημασία
> Filika
> Andreas.
>
Δημήτρης
> >> ------------------------
> >> Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis
ths
> >> Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
> >> The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
> >> Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the
undersigned.
> >> ------------------------
>
>
k0mis
>aeUeiai, ia a?ioYeaoia ia eaeoooana? c aoaniia? oio iuiio aea oa
>?niou?eeU aaaiiYia a?e 3 ?nuiea.
Wraia re megale, gia pes mas kai mas ti stoixeia exeis...
>Ai eo?yae aooi ?io a??a ?ana?Uiu ouoa uea uoa eao ea Y?na?a ia oa ?aeo
>aio?oonioa.
As doume ta stoixeia sou kai apofasizoume :)
>Aoiy a?iae eoaYnicoc eaeuo ?nUooae. O?Un?ioi aeeiaYo ici ia?iUo.
La8os file, sygnwmh. H kybernhsh ypoti8etai oti prepei na ergazetai gia to
LAO ki oxi gia thn tseph ths. Loipon ti prepei na ginei gia na akousei ton
lao, o opoios thn e3ele3e, otan aytos diamartyretai kai fwnazei mh. Prepei
na kanoume erano gia na mazepsoume merika ekatommyria kai na ladwsoume thn
kybernhsh, etsi mono akouei?
Den prattei kalws h kybernhsh. Prattei me ay8adeia, axaristia kai me
alazoneia...
>Eouo ia a?iae aiaeneaYo aoou.
To gkalop egine apo dyo diaforetikes etairies me paromoia apotelesmata kai
pososto la8ous +-3% peripou. Ara den yparxoun megales pi8anothtes na einai
anakribes.
>Aai iii?au. I eaeuo eaeeeoo?o ooa aeUei? oa?iaoae.
O kalos laikisths einai aytos pou patronarei kai taizei to lao paramy8ia kai
ton xrhsimopoiei gia idio ofelos. Einai aytos pou pseydomenos ergazetai oxi
gia to kalo tou laou, alla gia to kalo ths tsephs tou. Einai aytos pou
xrhsimopoiei to lao kai meta ton grafei sta tetoia tou.
Ta parapanw einai mia akribhs perigrafh ths kybernhshs tou PASOK....
>Aai a?iae aoan?eoiuo. EoaYnicoc a?iae. Eae ie eoaani?oaeo aeeaeiyioae
>ia ?Yniioi iYona aiaioea ooci ?eaeoco?a, aeao? oaeeeU a? aoo? ea
>eneeiyi.
Apo thn allh meria oi kybernhseis ofeiloun na throun tis arxes ths
dhmokratias, dioti symfwna me aytes e3eleghsan. Ofeiloun na kybernoun kai na
nomo8etoun kanontas dialogo (gi ayto to logo e3allou yparxei kai h Boulh),
kai ofeiloun na epideiknyoun sebasmo se olon ton lao, oxi mono se aytous pou
thn pshfisan h thn ladwnoun. Sygnwmh alla h symperifora Shmith einai
aytarxikh, axaristh kai antidhmokratikh, opws kai na to deis to 8ema... An
esy eixes kanei megalo kalo se kapoion gnwsto sou, ton eixes boh8hsei se
kapoia stigmh pou sto zhthse kai meta aytos se egrafe otan tou zhtouses na
milhsete, ti 8a skeftosouna?
Malaka kai axaristo kai zwo den 8a ton eleges? Loipon ta idia na skeftesai
kai gia thn kybernhsh, giati milame gia thn idia periptwsh.
>Danauiuo oa ayi ?anaaa?aiaoa oio a??iioi oi aaeYiuai ieao ??nao ?un?o
>eo?o. Ooa Eiea o?i?in?oaia eae oa?aeiie?eaia. Ooii IooaeUi ??aaia ia
>?a?iioia eae ?Uee oa?aeiue?eaia. Ayi aio?eaoao ?nUiaeo ia oi ?aei
>a?ioYeaoia. Aeao?; Aeao? aai a?ioia ouoou o?aaeaoiu eae aai Y?ioia eae
>eaooU... Ana oe nY?ae ia eUiioia; Ia oa a?ieo?oioia. Aoou eau eae a? i
>Uiienio eae aoou ?nio?aea? eae i Oci?oco. Aoou ocia?iae aeooa?niieoiuo.
>InaUiuoc, ieeiiiiee? aiU?ooic ?io iacaa? oa eo?y. Ae aoou ?naeUaaoae
>a?eoo?iiiao, oa?iienUoao eae aeaiiiyiaiioo. ?iuo i Eaiooa?eio aai oa
>eaoaeaaYiae aooU. Eae oU?iae aea ouo?nao iieoo oa ana? oeiyna. Eae ie
>ouo?nao ouoa aioai?aiioae, ia a?oae o?aionio. IY?ne oci a?uiaic
>eaoaoonio?, u?io eU?ieio ea ooa?ae eae eU?ieio ea aiae?aae oc ouocn?a
>iao.
Koita3e, den xreiazetai na ekdidesai otan den exeis xrhmata. H timh mas
einai oti mas exei apomeinei, kai alimono mas an afhnoume an8rwpous san ton
Shmith na thn poulane oso oso. Den phgame na pai3oume tipota me ton Otsalan.
Ton paradwsame ey8ews. Den eixame kanena logo na krypsoume tous S300. Den
eixame kanena logo na yposteiloume thn shmaia mas. Ti fobomaste thn Tourkia.
Xeirotero kostos 8a eixe enas polemos gi aytous para gia emas. Nomizeis oti
an h Tourkia htan se 8esh na kanei polemo den 8a to eixe hdh kanei?
Mhn eisai xazos, epeidh den exoume xrhmata opws les, ayto den paei na pei
oti 8a afhnoume ton ka8ena na mas phdaei anapoda. Pera apo ta xrhmata
xreiazetai tolmh, timh kai 8arros, na bgeis kai na kaneis oti einai to swsto
gia thn patrida sou. Ayta ta xarakthristika dystyxws den ta exei o Shmiths
kai h kybernhsh tou, fobontai mhn tou dysaresth8oun oi Eyrwpaioi kai oi
Amerikanoi, ta afentika tou. Emeis oi idioi dinoume to dikaiwma se ka8e
hli8io na mas kanei oti 8elei, me to prosxhma tou oti den exoume lefta ktl
ktl. Kai ta Skopia file den exoun lefta alla koita ti exoun kataferei.
Loipon den yparxoun dikaiologies gia opoion einai deilos kai anandros. O
Shmiths htane to xafiedaki ths ta3hs tou sto sxoleio, den 3erw an ta exeis
diabasei ayta. Twra to idio xafiedaki mas kyberna. Ti perimeneis? Ta lefta
den einai to pan. An den yparxoun an8rwpoi me timh kai me andreia na
kybernhsoun, osa lefta kai na exoume pali 8a ton pairnoume.
>Ic a?iaoae aae?io
Den mou apanthses. Ta 8ymasai ayta ta paidia?
>Oe eao ia ?aeo; Io? ie Aana?ie iao aea?eYeioi;
Mas diaplekoun oi "neofilosofoi", oi a8eoi, oi anti8rhskoi, oi exontes
xrhma, oi exontes epirroh, oi "monternoi", oi "eyrwpaioi". Sthn Ollandia den
yparxoun taytothtes logw twn Ebraiwn, kai den to lew egw ayto, mas to exei
pei zeygari Ollandwn ka8hghtwn pou emeinan spiti mas. Loipon otan blepei
kaneis stoixeia oti oi misoi apo tous kybernwntes einai masonoi,
neofilosofoi, scientologists ktl, ti na symperanei kaneis?
Mhn eisai xazos, legontas mou oti den yparxei kanena symferon pisw apo tis
taytothtes... Eidika afou paradexthkes kai o idios oti h EE den mas piese
pote gi ayto to 8ema.
>Oe ia ia?Uou, aooU iyoa ?io oa aeiyu. ?ei ie 'aeeie eae oa ooioYniioa
>ooYia. I??uo iY?aoao eU?ieii;
Nai, 3exasa atoma san ki esena pou PROTIMANE na mhn akoune... Ola ayta pou
sou lew einai hliou faeinotera, o ka8enas mporei na ta dei, arkei na to
8elei. Omws esy file dystyxws zeis se ena oneiro kai den 8es na deis ti
paizetai gyrw sou. Me sygxwreis pou sta lew etsi, alla etsi einai...
Den ftaine ta "symferonta". Ayta to symferon tous koitane. Ftaiei omws h
kybernhsh, dioti mesw ayths lymainontai ton topo. H kybernhsh eprepe na
einai o 8ematofylakas thn Ellados, einai omws h kerkoporta apo thn opoia
mpainei o ka8e pliatsikologos. Ftaime telos ki emeis, toulaxiston osoi
pshfisame thn kybernhsh, giati anti na anoi3oume ta matia na doume ti
ginetai, tous akolou8hsame kai tous empisteythkame, par'ola ta psemata kai
tis prodosies pou ginane.
>
>C oaoouocoa aai aio?cnaoa? ooi ia aiaoYnae aooU aea oa a?i?a a?oae
>o?an?oaiio. Aoou a?iae c a?eiyooanc eae ?e?nco a?Uiococ ooi aaoeeu
>an?ocia. AeeU aea oaia ?ouo ia a?iae ea?oiiYnea.
H taytothta xrhsimeyei gia na pistopoiei to poios eimai. Anamesa se ola osa
me diakrinoun apo sena, to onoma mou, o topos katagwghs mou, einai kai to
8rhskeyma mou. Me diaforopoiei kai fanerwnei poios eimai kai pou stekomai
sthn koinwnia. Opws e3'allou kai to epaggelma mou kai h oikogeneiakh mou
katastash. Ki ayta anagrafontai sthn taytothta kai me diakrinoun apo sena
kai apo ka8e allo.
Etsi loipon egw pou 8elw me ka8e tropo na eimai diaforetikos kai na
diathrhsw thn monadikothta mou, epilegw kai krinw oti ayta pou me
diaforopoioun prepei na einai grammena sthn taytothta mou.
>Ia oi eYia aai a?iae uoe aai eYeu ia ?naUeeu oa ?eooayu iio ? oeo
>?a?iee?oaeo iio, aeeU uoe aai a?iae ouoou c Ineuaiic Aeeeco?a ia iio
>a?eaUeeae ia oa ?niaUeeu. Eae oa ?niaUeeu o?i?nauoeeU uoai c c aiaanao?
>a?iae ?nianaeoee?. EaoaeaaYiaeo oc aeaoina;
Wraia, afou den 8eleis na ta proballeis, mhn ta grafeis. Den ta proballeis
ypoxrewtika an den ta grapseis, ayta pou les antiti8entai sth logikh. An esy
den mou grapseis ti pisteyeis, egw den mporw na 3erw ti eisai ektos ki an
mou to peis. Loipon den sou epiballei kaneis ti na proballeis.
Aytos pou den grafei to 8rhskeyma tou den einai aytomata a8eos, iexwbas,
kommounisths, h otidhpote. Einai ena atomo to opoio 8ewrei ta pisteyw tou
apokleistika dikh tou ypo8esh kai den 8elei na ta dhlwsei. Teleia kai payla.
Egw den mporw na ypo8esw h na pw tipota pera ap'ayto!!!
Blepeis loipon oti anagrafontas h mh anagrafontas to 8rhskeyma, panta kati
8a dhlwneis. Giati as poume oti oi nees taytothtes den grafoun 8rhskeyma,
oloi osoi 8eloun na dhlwnoun XO 8a balloun ki ena aytokollhtaki na to leei.
Loipon aytomata 8a anapesoume sthn parapanw periptwsh!
>Aai Y?ae ociao?a
Em bebaia den exei shmasia, giati tote den 8igontai ta dika sou symferonta,
8igontai ta dika mou. Na loipon pou yio8eteis thn idia blammenh logikh ths
kybernhshs, pou oti den thn symferei to apokryptei, to aporriptei, to
xleyazei kai to ypobibazei. Den ntrepesai ligo gi'ayto? Den eisai mono esy
kai to 40% tou laou, yparxei kai allo ena 60% to opoio protimate na to
agnoeite? Ayto paei na pei "den blepw pera ap' th myth mou".
Loipon gia na doume to "an8rwpistiko" kai "koinwnika eyais8hto" kratos na
kanei kati oxi mono gia to 40% pou to symferei alla kai gia to 60% pou den
to symferei.
Den m'aresei na ta lew xyma h na stenoxwrw an8rwpous, alla oxi na blepoume
mono ayto pou mas symferei!!!
Filika
Andreas.
------------------------
Oi parapanw apopseis ka8'oudeni tropon den ekfrazoun tis apopseis ths
Compaq, kai thn ey8ynh gi aytes ferei apokleistika o ypografwn.
The above opinions do not in any way express the opinions of Compaq
Corporation and are the exclusive responsability of the undersigned.
------------------------
replace the [dot]s with real dots to reply
ji...@my-deja.com
> As doume ta stoixeia sou kai apofasizoume :)
Psaxnw na brw to arthro kai tha sto steilw.
> La8os file, sygnwmh. H kybernhsh ypoti8etai oti prepei na ergazetai
> gia to
 LAO ki oxi gia thn tseph ths.
Twra egw prepei na apodiksw oti den ergazetai gia tin tsepi tis (mono)?
Ti soi dialogos einai aytos, petas mia koyventa astirixti epidi esy
kai oi filoi soy symfvnoyn, kai gw prepei na tin pistepso?
 Loipon ti prepei na ginei gia na akousei
> ton
 lao, o opoios thn e3ele3e, otan aytos diamartyretai kai fwnazei mh.
 Prepei
 na kanoume erano gia na mazepsoume merika ekatommyria kai na
 ladwsoume thn
> kybernhsh, etsi mono akouei?
> Den prattei kalws h kybernhsh. Prattei me ay8adeia, axaristia kai me
 alazoneia...
Aidies, kathe kybernisi exei to dikewma na enantiwnetai stin pliocifia
kai ayto einai swsto. Gi ayto to syntagma provlepei ekloges kathe 4
xronia kai oxi opote tyxei. Prepei kaneis na krinetai gia to synoliko
ergo kai oxi gia tis leptomeries. Kane ypomoni kai tha sou dothei I
eykairia na ekfrasteis. An den s’aresei megale xtypa to kefali soy ston
toixo, ti na soy pw.
> Koita3e, den xreiazetai na ekdidesai otan den exeis xrhmata. H timh
mas
> einai oti mas exei apomeinei, kai alimono mas an afhnoume an8rwpous
san ton
 Shmith na thn poulane oso oso.
Aytos den einai akrivhs parallhlismos, tha eksighthw parakatw.
 Den phgame na pai3oume tipota me ton Otsalan.
 Ton paradwsame ey8ews.
Blepw ta ksereis ola… Nai etsi prepei na einai, twra me epises.

 Den eixame kanena logo na krypsoume tous S300.

Kanenan ektws ap to na xasoyme kai tin ypoloiph Kypro. Eprepe nomizw o
AGEETHA na se parei tilefwno prin symboylepsei tin kybernhsh.

 Den
 eixame kanena logo na yposteiloume thn shmaia mas. Ti fobomaste thn
Tourkia.
Oxi kale, siga ta 60 000 000 malakes twra, aytoys tha fobhthoyme.
 Xeirotero kostos 8a eixe enas polemos gi aytous para gia emas.
Dhladh? An pernanane ektws apo ta Imia, ti Samo, ti Xio kai ti Lesbo,
tha toys kathotan sto lemo?
 Nomizeis oti
> an h Tourkia htan se 8esh na kanei polemo den 8a to eixe hdh kanei?
Aplws thelei mia kali aformi, gia na dikeologithei, opws ekane stin
Kypro. Perimene perimene kai sto telos ti vrhke.
> Mhn eisai xazos, epeidh den exoume xrhmata opws les, ayto den paei na
pei
> oti 8a afhnoume ton ka8ena na mas phdaei anapoda. Pera apo ta xrhmata
> xreiazetai tolmh, timh kai 8arros, na bgeis kai na kaneis oti einai
to swsto
> gia thn patrida sou. Ayta ta xarakthristika dystyxws den ta exei o
Shmiths
> kai h kybernhsh tou, fobontai mhn tou dysaresth8oun oi Eyrwpaioi kai
oi
 Amerikanoi, ta afentika tou.


An ta xaraktiristika poy les arkoysan, tha itan prothypoyrgoi oi
Goriles. Omws otan kathese stin hlektrikh karekla kai oi epiloges
einai, h tapeinvsoy h peks to yperifanos kai xase tria nhsia mazei me
toys katoikoys, tote o tharaleos politikos analamvanei to kwstos tis
prwtis epiloghs. Xreiazetai tharos kai tolmh kai sofia gia na
sygkrateis tin epithymia sou na gamiseis ton antipalo, otan se piezei
to varos tis eythynhs. O kathe eksypnakias mporei na leei oti thelei
alla katse prwta stin karekla kai meta pes ayta poy les. Egw den lew
oti eprakse swsta. Isws na mporoyse na praksei ligo kallitera, alla
genika toy exw empistosyni giati einai eksypnos.

 Emeis oi idioi dinoume to dikaiwma se ka8e
> hli8io na mas kanei oti 8elei, me to prosxhma tou oti den exoume
lefta ktl  ktl. Kai ta Skopia file den exoun lefta alla koita ti
exoun kataferei.
Ti kataferan? Eksathliwthikan. Alla afoy den eixan ti na xasoyn den
toyw endiaferei. Kai min ksexnas tin diasyndesi Skopiwn Toyrkias. An h
Ellada proevenai se stratiwtiki epixeirish, tha eprepe na parei
dynameis apo to metopo me tin Toyrkia. Poy kai kei den ftanoyn… O
Ellhnikos stratos exei mono kapoia simantiki apotreptiki ikanotita alla
mhden epithetiki.
> Loipon den yparxoun dikaiologies gia opoion einai deilos kai
anandros. O
> Shmiths htane to xafiedaki ths ta3hs tou sto sxoleio, den 3erw an ta
exeis
> diabasei ayta. Twra to idio xafiedaki mas kyberna. Ti perimeneis? Ta
lefta
> den einai to pan. An den yparxoun an8rwpoi me timh kai me andreia na
> kybernhsoun, osa lefta kai na exoume pali 8a ton pairnoume.
Kai omws yparzxoyn dikeologies kai malista pragmatikes. Esy aplws
pairneis mia gomolastixa kai tis sbhneis giati s’aresei na zeis stis
ceydaisthiseis sou.
> Mas diaplekoun oi "neofilosofoi", oi a8eoi, oi anti8rhskoi, oi exontes
> xrhma, oi exontes epirroh, oi "monternoi", oi "eyrwpaioi". Sthn
Ollandia den
> yparxoun taytothtes logw twn Ebraiwn, kai den to lew egw ayto, mas to
exei
> pei zeygari Ollandwn ka8hghtwn pou emeinan spiti mas. Loipon otan
blepei
> kaneis stoixeia oti oi misoi apo tous kybernwntes einai masonoi,
> neofilosofoi, scientologists ktl, ti na symperanei kaneis?
Dhladh thes na peis oti I olandia poy exei apo ta icilotera viotika
epipeda ston kosmo, poy exei paideia, texnologia, texni… einai
paradeigma pros apofygh?
 Me sygxwreis pou sta lew etsi, alla etsi einai...
E afoy to les ESY, dikio tha exeis.
> H taytothta xrhsimeyei gia na pistopoiei to poios eimai. Anamesa se
ola osa
> me diakrinoun apo sena, to onoma mou, o topos katagwghs mou, einai
kai to
> 8rhskeyma mou. Me diaforopoiei kai fanerwnei poios eimai kai pou
stekomai
> sthn koinwnia. Opws e3'allou kai to epaggelma mou kai h oikogeneiakh
mou
> katastash. Ki ayta anagrafontai sthn taytothta kai me diakrinoun apo
sena
> kai apo ka8e allo.
Nai episis exoyme diaforetiki ideologia isws, diaforetika goysta,
diaforetika royxa…. Ola ayta mpenoyn stin taytothta? Nomizeis mporeis
na patas tin kilia soy kai na les oti thes? H taytotita pistopoiei to
onoma soy se endiaferomenoys foreis prokeimenoy na soy dwsoyn kapoio
pistopoiitiko klp. H stin trapeza prokeimenoy na epivevaiwseis tin
pistotiki soy karta. I sto cinema gia na deikseis oti ta eisitiria poy
ekklhses ap to thlefvno einai dika soy.
Prepei diladi otan paw se ena xwrio gia diakopes ma ti gkwmena moy kai
o Astyfylakas moy zhthsei taytotita kai dei oti den anagrafw thirkseyma
na me prosbalei kai na me parei sto tmioma gia eksakribwsi stoixeiwn
etsi gia na moy ti spasei? Den katalaveneis oti ayto tha ginei 100% and
anagrafetai proeraitika to thriskeyma kai to 80% to exei anagrapsei?
Gia rwta kai to gogu poy einai eilikrinhs (kai to ektimw ayto).
Nomizeis oti ola einai bla bla bla kai eksypnades? Kai otan arxisoyn na
symbainoyn ta straba tha peis: eee kai gw ti ftaiw ama o astynomikos, I
odeiksas I o piksas den symperiferetai swsta? Thes na soy steilw
paradeigmata prosfatwn gegonotwn gia diakriseis thriskeytikis yfhs sin
Ellada. Einai ntropi megali gia mia xwra poy thelei na legetai
proigmeni.
> Em bebaia den exei shmasia, giati tote den 8igontai ta dika sou
symferonta,
> 8igontai ta dika mou. Na loipon pou yio8eteis thn idia blammenh
logikh ths
> kybernhshs, pou oti den thn symferei to apokryptei, to aporriptei, to
> xleyazei kai to ypobibazei. Den ntrepesai ligo gi'ayto? Den eisai
mono esy
> kai to 40% tou laou, yparxei kai allo ena 60% to opoio protimate na to
> agnoeite? Ayto paei na pei "den blepw pera ap' th myth mou".
> Loipon gia na doume to "an8rwpistiko" kai "koinwnika eyais8hto"
kratos na
> kanei kati oxi mono gia to 40% pou to symferei alla kai gia to 60%
pou den
> to symferei.
> Den m'aresei na ta lew xyma h na stenoxwrw an8rwpous, alla oxi na
blepoume
> mono ayto pou mas symferei!!!
Ti les mwre twra, exei sxesi I apantisi soy me ayto poy eipa? Lew den
exei simasia pios einai kalliteros kai pios xeirwteros. To ti grafei I
taytotita den exei xesi me tin poiothta toy atomoy. Ayto eipa.
Dimitris
k0mis
OK, eyxaristw.
>Twra egw prepei na apodiksw oti den ergazetai gia tin tsepi tis (mono)?
>Ti soi dialogos einai aytos, petas mia koyventa astirixti epidi esy
>kai oi filoi soy symfvnoyn, kai gw prepei na tin pistepso?
Den xreiazetai na to apodei3eis, mhn trelainesai. Ayto einai pasifanes. Den
einai asthrikth koubenta oti h kybernhsh ergazetai gia thn tseph ths, ayto
einai gegonos. An 8es ena prosfato paradeigma, pare to nomosxedio gia thn
dhmiourgia neou ippodromou, pou einai fwtografia ths prosforas Kokkalh.
An 8es anoigeis ta matia sou kai pisteyeis osa sou lew, an de 8es, dikaiwma
sou. Egw aplws sou para8etw ayta pou symbainoun.
>Aidies, kathe kybernisi exei to dikewma na enantiwnetai stin pliocifia
>kai ayto einai swsto. Gi ayto to syntagma provlepei ekloges kathe 4
>xronia kai oxi opote tyxei. Prepei kaneis na krinetai gia to synoliko
>ergo kai oxi gia tis leptomeries. Kane ypomoni kai tha sou dothei I
>eykairia na ekfrasteis. An den s’aresei megale xtypa to kefali soy ston
>toixo, ti na soy pw.
Ayto kanw o amoiros, 5 xronia twra. To syntagma problepei ekloges gia tous
Ellhnes polites, oxi tous Albanous. Opws problepei kai ekloges ano8eytes,
oxi me tis 500.000 xiliades pou eide o pateras mou mprosta sta matia tou na
prosferei atomo tou PASOK gia na e3agorasei pshfo ligo pio e3w apo to
eklogiko kentro.
Den xreiazetai na sou pw oti ayta pou esy aporripteis ws leptomereies einai
poly shmantika gegonota, giati dinoun enaysma gia alla xeirotera. Ta Imia,
oi S300, oi taytothtes... mhn koitas ti ginetai shmera, alla na skeftesai ti
mporei na ginei ayrio me bash ayta. Nomizeis oti epeidh mphkame sthn ONE
paei glytwsame twra eimaste asfaleis kai mporoume n'anapaytoume? Sygnwmh
alla koimasai ton ypno tou dikaiou. TWRA arxizoun ta dyskola. H EE DEN EINAI
PANAKEIA.
>Aytos den einai akrivhs parallhlismos, tha eksighthw parakatw.
Pisteyw oti o parallhlismos einai poly eystoxos. An den exeis lefta, h
paleyeis me nyxia kai ma dontia kai kratas thn a3ioprepeia sou, h ton trws
kai se trwne meta... Kai ayth th stigmh ton trwme.
>Blepw ta ksereis ola… Nai etsi prepei na einai, twra me epises.
Gia apedei3e mou esy oti den ton paradwsame, oti den ekane to xafie o
Shmiths stous Amerikanous kai tous Tourkous... Mh leme oti 8eloume, edw
einai PRODOSIA ka8arh. An mh ti allo, afou ekane tetoia XONTRH malakia h
kybernhsh, giati den eixe thn ey8i3ia na paraith8ei? Alla einai tetoia
gomaria pou den tous noiazei me ti moutra bgainoun kai mas milane, oi
prodotes oi anikanoi.
>Kanenan ektws ap to na xasoyme kai tin ypoloiph Kypro. Eprepe nomizw o
>AGEETHA na se parei tilefwno prin symboylepsei tin kybernhsh.
Me thn taktikh ths ypoxwrhshs kai tou den diekdikoume tipota 8A TA XASOUME
OLA RE!!!!!! H Tourkia dhmiourgei prohgoumena se baros mas kai meta mas
diapragmateyetai me ayta pou einai HDH dika mas. Ayth einai swsth politikh
gia to symferon mias xwras, oxi oi malakes oi dikoi mas pou ta dinoune ola.
Na kanoume ki emeis mia apobash se Tourkikh braxonhsida. Na apagoreysoume ki
emeis stous Tourkous na exoune tanks sthn Kypro.
>Oxi kale, siga ta 60 000 000 malakes twra, aytoys tha fobhthoyme.
Tous nikhsame prin kai mporoume na tous nikhsoume kai pali. Ayth th blammenh
logikh eixe kai h Italia kai ton phre kanonika sthn Albania. Exeis
empistosynh stous 3enous "swthres" mas, pou mas poulhsane sth mikra asia,
kai den exeis pisth sto e8nos, ston eayto sou, sto aima sou? Ena pragma
ema8a sth zwh, na sthrizomai MONO s'emena. Alimono mas an epafiome8a stous
"filous" mas...
>Dhladh? An pernanane ektws apo ta Imia, ti Samo, ti Xio kai ti Lesbo,
>tha toys kathotan sto lemo?
Na sou pw to e3hs: Den yparxoun mono ta nhsia kai mhn to blepeis monof8alma.
H Ellada se periptwsh polemou ofeilei prwta na e3asfalisei oti den 8a xa8oun
nhsia kai kata deyteron na eisballei sthn Tourkia, opote se periptwsh
apwleias e8nikou edafous na exoume Tourkiko edafos na diapragmateytoume.
Alla to malakismeno mas dogma einai ka8ara amyntiko. TRIXES. H kalyterh
amyna einai h epi8esh, as paroume epitelous ena ma8hma apo thn Tourkia ki as
3ypnhsoume.
>Aplws thelei mia kali aformi, gia na dikeologithei, opws ekane stin
>Kypro. Perimene perimene kai sto telos ti vrhke.
La8os, oi aformes den briskontai, ftiaxnontai file...
>An ta xaraktiristika poy les arkoysan, tha itan prothypoyrgoi oi
>Goriles. Omws otan kathese stin hlektrikh karekla kai oi epiloges
>einai, h tapeinvsoy h peks to yperifanos kai xase tria nhsia mazei me
>toys katoikoys, tote o tharaleos politikos analamvanei to kwstos tis
>prwtis epiloghs. Xreiazetai tharos kai tolmh kai sofia gia na
>sygkrateis tin epithymia sou na gamiseis ton antipalo, otan se piezei
>to varos tis eythynhs. O kathe eksypnakias mporei na leei oti thelei
>alla katse prwta stin karekla kai meta pes ayta poy les. Egw den lew
>oti eprakse swsta. Isws na mporoyse na praksei ligo kallitera, alla
>genika toy exw empistosyni giati einai eksypnos.
Wraia, o idios politikos omws prepei na exei thn ey8ynh oxi mono na bazei
ton eayto tou se tetoies katastaseis alla na bazei kai ton antipalo. Kane
kyrie mia magkia styl Imia na se paradextw! Oxi mono na ton trwme! Na ton
dinoume kai kamia fora. Ekei einai to 8arros kai h tolmh kai h pragmatikh
sofia.
Se plhroforw oti an hmouna sthn karekla tou Shmith, toulaxiston 8a eixa
tsipa na paraith8w meta ton Otsalan.
E3ypnos mporei na einai o Shmiths, alla einai e3ypnos gia ton eayto tou,
3YPNA, ki oxi gia th xwra. Gi ayto loipon den einai katallhlos gia hgeths
kai prepei na apomakryn8ei.
>Ti kataferan? Eksathliwthikan. Alla afoy den eixan ti na xasoyn den
>toyw endiaferei. Kai min ksexnas tin diasyndesi Skopiwn Toyrkias. An h
>Ellada proevenai se stratiwtiki epixeirish, tha eprepe na parei
>dynameis apo to metopo me tin Toyrkia. Poy kai kei den ftanoyn… O
>Ellhnikos stratos exei mono kapoia simantiki apotreptiki ikanotita alla
>mhden epithetiki.
E3a8liwmena htan otan egeiran 8ema Makedonias, e3a8liwmena einai kai twra,
alla mhn 3exnas oti einai kerdismena. Ayto giati efarmozoun e3ypna thn
politikh tous, dhmiourgoun tetelesmena kai mas fernoun se dyskolh 8esh.
As empaine o Ellhnikos stratos sta Skopia me to pou anakoinwnan to syntagma
kai th shmaia tous, dyo meres ypo8esh htan, poios 8a tous stamatouse? Sou
elega egw tote poios eixe to panw xeri. Oute dynameis megales xreiazontan
oute tipota. Ekei einai to la8os OLWN twn kybernhsewn, oti o stratos den
exei epi8etiko dogma. An perimenoume mono apo to amyntiko mas dogma, zhtw
pou kahkame.
>Kai omws yparzxoyn dikeologies kai malista pragmatikes. Esy aplws
>pairneis mia gomolastixa kai tis sbhneis giati s’aresei na zeis stis
>ceydaisthiseis sou.
La8os file. An eisai deilos kai anikanos na kybernhseis, na exeis
toulaxiston thn stoixeiwdh a3ioprepeia na paraith8eis. Otan odhgeis th xwra
apo symbibasmo se symbibasmo, meiwnontas to kyros ths kai odhgwntas thn se
synexws xeiroterh diapragmateytikh 8esh, eisai deilos kai anikanos. Kai
prepei na paraith8eis.
Ayth einai h pragmatikothta pou zoume ki an den s'aresei toso to xeirotero.
Ta oneira ta zeis esy, h pragmatikothta einai polu pio zoferh kai sapia
ap'oti se bazoune na pisteyeis.
>Dhladh thes na peis oti I olandia poy exei apo ta icilotera viotika
>epipeda ston kosmo, poy exei paideia, texnologia, texni… einai
>paradeigma pros apofygh?
Mhn 3exnas ta ypshlotera pososta aytoktonias, kata8lipshs, e3arthshs, mhn
3exnas thn anypar3ia oikogeneias, mhn 3exnas oti tous gerous tous tous
petane sta ghrokomeia, mhn 3exnas oti apo ta 16 ta paidia feygoun apo ta
spitia tous kai oi goneis payoun na endiaferontai. H mana tou antra tou
proanafer8entos zeygariou aytoktonhse giati ais8anotan axrhsth kai a8elhth
sthn oikogeneia ths. To kalo mas zeygari loipon htan se diakopes sthn
Ellada, sto spiti mas gia deyterh fora, kai aplws esteilan ena mpouketo gia
thn khdeia, anti na mpoyne sto aytokinhto tous kai na fygoune. Mas legane "E
den peirazei. Den mporoume e3' allou na ths poume pws na dia8esei to swma
ths...".
H koinwnia sthn Dytikh Eyrwph einai SKATA file, den yparxei oikogeneia, den
yparxoun h8h, den yparxoun desmoi tipota tipota tipota. An 8es na gineis san
ki aytous, gine, egw protimw na parameinw Ellhnas kai Mesogeios.
>E afoy to les ESY, dikio tha exeis.
Pata3on men, akouson de...
>Nai episis exoyme diaforetiki ideologia isws, diaforetika goysta,
>diaforetika royxa…. Ola ayta mpenoyn stin taytothta? Nomizeis mporeis
>na patas tin kilia soy kai na les oti thes? H taytotita pistopoiei to
>onoma soy se endiaferomenoys foreis prokeimenoy na soy dwsoyn kapoio
>pistopoiitiko klp. H stin trapeza prokeimenoy na epivevaiwseis tin
>pistotiki soy karta. I sto cinema gia na deikseis oti ta eisitiria poy
>ekklhses ap to thlefvno einai dika soy.
>
>Prepei diladi otan paw se ena xwrio gia diakopes ma ti gkwmena moy kai
>o Astyfylakas moy zhthsei taytotita kai dei oti den anagrafw thirkseyma
>na me prosbalei kai na me parei sto tmioma gia eksakribwsi stoixeiwn
>etsi gia na moy ti spasei? Den katalaveneis oti ayto tha ginei 100% and
>anagrafetai proeraitika to thriskeyma kai to 80% to exei anagrapsei?
>Gia rwta kai to gogu poy einai eilikrinhs (kai to ektimw ayto).
>Nomizeis oti ola einai bla bla bla kai eksypnades? Kai otan arxisoyn na
>symbainoyn ta straba tha peis: eee kai gw ti ftaiw ama o astynomikos, I
>odeiksas I o piksas den symperiferetai swsta? Thes na soy steilw
>paradeigmata prosfatwn gegonotwn gia diakriseis thriskeytikis yfhs sin
>Ellada. Einai ntropi megali gia mia xwra poy thelei na legetai
>proigmeni.
Opws sou eipa, ayto to problhma, an yparxei, 8a yparxei GIA PANTA, eite
yparxei proairetikh anagrafh eite oxi. Pes oti den yphrxe anagrafh. O
fanatikos mpatsos 8a se rwtouse: Eisai or8odo3os? Esy ti 8'apantouses? An
eleges nai, kalws, alla an tou eleges <<oxi>>, h <<den s'endiaferei>>, pali
th gamhses. Katalabes twra giati h olh istoria einai mpourdes? Mhn eisai
xazos, an yparxei 8rhskeytikos ratsismos 8a yparxei panta, h mh anagrafh den
prokeitai na lysei tipota.
Etsi to problhma lynetai sta sxoleia kai me alles paidagwgikes me8odous, oxi
me mia taytothta pou 8eloun swnei kai kala na thn alla3oun, kanontas mas na
pisteyoume malakies, oti kai kala 8a ly8oun etsi ola. Esy to pisteyeis?
>> Em bebaia den exei shmasia, giati tote den 8igontai ta dika sou
>symferonta,
>> 8igontai ta dika mou. Na loipon pou yio8eteis thn idia blammenh
>logikh ths
>> kybernhshs, pou oti den thn symferei to apokryptei, to aporriptei, to
>> xleyazei kai to ypobibazei. Den ntrepesai ligo gi'ayto? Den eisai
>mono esy
>> kai to 40% tou laou, yparxei kai allo ena 60% to opoio protimate na to
>> agnoeite? Ayto paei na pei "den blepw pera ap' th myth mou".
>> Loipon gia na doume to "an8rwpistiko" kai "koinwnika eyais8hto"
>kratos na
>> kanei kati oxi mono gia to 40% pou to symferei alla kai gia to 60%
>pou den
>> to symferei.
>> Den m'aresei na ta lew xyma h na stenoxwrw an8rwpous, alla oxi na
>blepoume
>> mono ayto pou mas symferei!!!
>
>Ti les mwre twra, exei sxesi I apantisi soy me ayto poy eipa? Lew den
>exei simasia pios einai kalliteros kai pios xeirwteros. To ti grafei I
>taytotita den exei xesi me tin poiothta toy atomoy. Ayto eipa.
To ti grafei h taytothta kai to ti pisteyeis EXEI POLLA na kanei me thn
poiothta sou file.
Apanthse mou se osa sou grafw!!!!
Antreas/
ji...@my-deja.com
"k0mis" <andreas.d...@compaq.dot.com> wrote:
> >Psaxnw na brw to arthro kai tha sto steilw.
>
> OK, eyxaristw.
>
> >Twra egw prepei na apodiksw oti den ergazetai gia tin tsepi tis
(mono)?
> >Ti soi dialogos einai aytos, petas mia koyventa astirixti epidi esy
> >kai oi filoi soy symfvnoyn, kai gw prepei na tin pistepso?
>
> Den xreiazetai na to apodei3eis, mhn trelainesai. Ayto einai
pasifanes. Den
> einai asthrikth koubenta oti h kybernhsh ergazetai gia thn tseph ths,
ayto
> einai gegonos. An 8es ena prosfato paradeigma, pare to nomosxedio gia
thn
> dhmiourgia neou ippodromou, pou einai fwtografia ths prosforas
Kokkalh.
> An 8es anoigeis ta matia sou kai pisteyeis osa sou lew, an de 8es,
dikaiwma
> sou. Egw aplws sou para8etw ayta pou symbainoun.
>
O Kokallis tha xtisei ypodromo? Ma afou aftos den einai ergolavos. Kati
allo tha ennoeis. Alla ayto poy les den mporeis na to apodhkseis. Les
lekseis opws 'pasifanes', 'gegonos' klp alla ayta poy anafereis einai
fimes apo ton adesmeyto typo... Eisai toso eypistos tote einai bebaio
oti tha gineis o mister kaxypoptos. Otan o kathe gyftos amorfotos
dimosiografos pou exei idiotelh symferonta soy pasarei kati kai sy to
trws tote, ftaneis sto simeio na zeis sto fantasioplikto kosmo soy,
gemato synomosies kai skandala. Den lew oti den ginontai pousties, ayto
einai bebaio, alla simasia exei i oliki eikona kai kyriws kata poso
yparxei beltiwsi me to parelthon. Kai nomizw oti me ayti tin kybernish
(Simiti kai oxi genika PASOK), yparxei.
> >Aidies, kathe kybernisi exei to dikewma na enantiwnetai stin
pliocifia
> >kai ayto einai swsto. Gi ayto to syntagma provlepei ekloges kathe 4
> >xronia kai oxi opote tyxei. Prepei kaneis na krinetai gia to synoliko
> >ergo kai oxi gia tis leptomeries. Kane ypomoni kai tha sou dothei I
> >eykairia na ekfrasteis. An den s’aresei megale xtypa to kefali soy
ston
> >toixo, ti na soy pw.
>
> Ayto kanw o amoiros, 5 xronia twra. To syntagma problepei ekloges gia
tous
> Ellhnes polites, oxi tous Albanous. Opws problepei kai ekloges
ano8eytes,
> oxi me tis 500.000 xiliades pou eide o pateras mou mprosta sta matia
tou na
> prosferei atomo tou PASOK gia na e3agorasei pshfo ligo pio e3w apo to
> eklogiko kentro.
Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin tis
ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea Dimokratia.
Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
Gegonos einai oti to apotelesma twn eklogwn itan oti legan ola ta
gkalop, synepws papse na fantasiwnesai nothies. H pragmatikotita einai
oti i Nea Dimokratia epapse na ekproswpei kapia yparkti tasi stin
koinwnia gi ayto den prokeitai pote na ksanavgei. An deis tis taseis
tha deis oti to PASOK kalyptei sxedwn eks olokliroy (70-80%) to meseo
xwro. H Nea Dimokratia exei ginei ena sxedon akrodeksio kwma. Se
prosfato gkalop sto Vima nomizw (an thes to exw kapoy na soy pw poy
einai) oi psifoforoi tis Neas Dimokratias apanthsan se pososto peripoy
70% oti me klimaka 0-10 (0=kentro) thewroyn ton eayto toys 7 deksia enw
allo ena 20% eipe 8. Ayto simenei syriknwsi kai mi nomizeis oti egw
eimai pasoktzis, den exw psifisei pasok oyte mia fora. enw ND exw
psifisei 3 fores...
> Den xreiazetai na sou pw oti ayta pou esy aporripteis ws leptomereies
einai
> poly shmantika gegonota, giati dinoun enaysma gia alla xeirotera. Ta
Imia,
> oi S300, oi taytothtes... mhn koitas ti ginetai shmera, alla na
skeftesai ti
> mporei na ginei ayrio me bash ayta. Nomizeis oti epeidh mphkame sthn
ONE
> paei glytwsame twra eimaste asfaleis kai mporoume n'anapaytoume?
Kala pios eipe tetoio pragma? Tha papseis na ypotheteis apopseis dikies
moy poy pote den eipa? Exeis sximatisei mia eikona gia to ti ekproswpw
poy se diabebaiw apexei ap tin pragmatikotita... Alla ante na apodeiksw
se sena oti den eimai Elefantas.
Sygnwmh
> alla koimasai ton ypno tou dikaiou. TWRA arxizoun ta dyskola. H EE
DEN EINAI
> PANAKEIA.
>
> >Aytos den einai akrivhs parallhlismos, tha eksighthw parakatw.
>
> Pisteyw oti o parallhlismos einai poly eystoxos. An den exeis lefta, h
> paleyeis me nyxia kai ma dontia kai kratas thn a3ioprepeia sou, h ton
trws
> kai se trwne meta... Kai ayth th stigmh ton trwme.
>
> >Blepw ta ksereis ola… Nai etsi prepei na einai, twra me epises.
>
> Gia apedei3e mou esy oti den ton paradwsame, oti den ekane to xafie o
> Shmiths stous Amerikanous kai tous Tourkous... Mh leme oti 8eloume,
edw
> einai PRODOSIA ka8arh. An mh ti allo, afou ekane tetoia XONTRH
malakia h
> kybernhsh, giati den eixe thn ey8i3ia na paraith8ei? Alla einai tetoia
> gomaria pou den tous noiazei me ti moutra bgainoun kai mas milane, oi
> prodotes oi anikanoi.
Ayto poy les einai paralogo. Dhladh an se pei kapoios elefanta, esy
prepei na apodikseis oti den eisai? Profanws aytos poy isxyrizetai kati
prepei na paroysiasei koiws apodekta stoixeia gia na stiriksei ton
isxyrismo toy. Kai sy den to exeis kanei mexri twra.
Les 'marionetes','poylimenoi', klp klp alla ayta poy paroysiazeis ws
stoixeia kata ti gnwmi moy den stekoyn gia toys logoys poy eksigisa.
Bebai edw na pw oti kai otan itan kybernish Mitsotaki ta pasokia ta
idia legane gia ayton, alla egw kai tote elega oti lew twra gia to
Simiti. Kai edw einai i diafora megale. Oti den tropoiw aposi me vasi
to an psifisa afton poy kyberna. Prospathw na dw an kanei to kallitero
dynato me vasi tin katastasi poy parelabe. Kai na sou pw, diaxwrizw tin
Kybernisis Simiti apo alles kyberniseis PASOK kai tin epomeni fora isws
kai na ton psifisw. To mono provlima me ton Simiti einai to PASOK...
>
> >Kanenan ektws ap to na xasoyme kai tin ypoloiph Kypro. Eprepe nomizw
o
> >AGEETHA na se parei tilefwno prin symboylepsei tin kybernhsh.
>
> Me thn taktikh ths ypoxwrhshs kai tou den diekdikoume tipota 8A TA
XASOUME
> OLA RE!!!!!! H Tourkia dhmiourgei prohgoumena se baros mas kai meta
mas
> diapragmateyetai me ayta pou einai HDH dika mas. Ayth einai swsth
politikh
> gia to symferon mias xwras, oxi oi malakes oi dikoi mas pou ta
dinoune ola.
Nai giati einai se kathari thesi isxyws... Exei 400 F-16, 800 000
xiliades strato, klp, klp. A kai ti stiriksi twn USA. Oi teleytaioi den
theloyn epoydenh h Toyrkia na apostatheropoihthei gia gnwstoys
geopolitikoys logoys. Opote toys symperiferontai kata to anekdwto, o
giatros moy eipe na soy lew panta nai! Oti poystia kai na kanoyn, oi
Amerikanoi tha kanoyn to koroido giati me ena tsak kai i Toyrkia tha
ginei mylos. Gi ayto toys poylane opla mpir para, elikoptera, tanks,
systimata parakwloythisis, mexri kai ergostasio gia F-16 toys
ftiaksane, mpas kai toys teleiwsoyne ta aeroplana. Kai fysika ola ayta
gia na epitiroyn kyriws to eswteriko kai toys Kourdoys alla kai ta
anatolika kyriws sunora toys. Omws tipota den empodizei toys Toyrkoys
na xrisimopoioyn ta opla ayta kai sta dytika toys synora. Min ksexnas
oti o Toyrkikos Stratos, i toylaxiston megalo tmima toy einai maximos,
diladi exei symetasxei se pragmatikes maxes (peripoy) sta vouna toy
Koyrdistan. Emeis apo tin allh eimaste tragikoi lapades, poy an ginei
tipota tha skorpisoyme san tis panikovlites kotes. Den kserw an exeis
paei strato... To 40 me toys Italoys kai toys Germanoys eixame ena
kataponimeno strato poy omws eixe gamithei stoys polemoys. Apo
balkanikoys mexri mikra asia. Twra oi frapedomagkes nomizeis oti exoyn
kamia sxesi? Tha paroyme ta arxidia mas kai tha psaxnoyme na vroyme
pios ftaiei... H parametros poy leipei apo to skeptiko soy einai o
orthologismos. H kardia kai to ithiko einai poly vasika, alla oso
megala kai na einai, pairneis t'arxidia soy an den eisai kai
orthologistis. Paradhgma i mikrasiatiki katastrofi kai oi eksegerseis
kata twn Toyrkwn prin toys balkanikoys polemoys. Palia ponemeni
istoria...
> Na kanoume ki emeis mia apobash se Tourkikh braxonhsida. Na
apagoreysoume ki
> emeis stous Tourkous na exoune tanks sthn Kypro.
Nai kai ksereis ti tha ginei? Tha paroyn mia mygoskotwstra kai tha mas
epitethoyn... Thymasai to koino amyntiko dogma? Gnwrizw prwin AGEETHA
kai malista sxetiko me ta episodia toy 87 kai me tin dimioyrgia toy
eniaioy amyntikoy dogmatos apo ton Papantreoy. Aytos apo tote elege oti
to koino amyntiko dogma oi Toyrkoi tha mas to valoyn ston kwlo. Kai
etsi kai egine. Gia ton apoloystato logo oti oi enoples dynameis den
exoyn ti dynatothta na yperaspisytoyn ola ayta ta nisia kai tin Kypro
poy einai stoy diaoloy ti mana. Ta opla poy xreiazomaste einai apithana
afenws den exoyme lefta gia na ta agwrasoyme, kai af etairoy pithanwn
kai na min mas ta deinoyn. Ta geopolitika symferonta twn HPA symbenei
teleytaia na einai eis baros mas. Kai prepei na eimaste poly
prosextikoi gia na min fame kanena xontro paloyki aktws apo ta mikra
poy trwme kai tha trwme. Gi ayto fagothikame na gantzwthoyme apo thn
eurwpaiki enwsi, gia na swsoyme to kolaraki mas. Giati Yparxei
periptwsi (oxi sigoyra) i EU na ekselixtei se antagwnistiko polo twn
HPA opote ayto tha mas synefere. Syn toy oti exoyme kapoia epirroh
ekei. Petyxame kai ena Elsinki an kai den arnoyme oti yparxei
pithanotita kai ayto na mas to valoyn ston kwlo... Eidwmen
>
> >Oxi kale, siga ta 60 000 000 malakes twra, aytoys tha fobhthoyme.
>
> Tous nikhsame prin kai mporoume na tous nikhsoume kai pali. Ayth th
blammenh
> logikh eixe kai h Italia kai ton phre kanonika sthn Albania. Exeis
> empistosynh stous 3enous "swthres" mas, pou mas poulhsane sth mikra
asia,
> kai den exeis pisth sto e8nos, ston eayto sou, sto aima sou? Ena
pragma
> ema8a sth zwh, na sthrizomai MONO s'emena. Alimono mas an epafiome8a
stous
> "filous" mas...
>
> >Dhladh? An pernanane ektws apo ta Imia, ti Samo, ti Xio kai ti Lesbo,
> >tha toys kathotan sto lemo?
>
> Na sou pw to e3hs: Den yparxoun mono ta nhsia kai mhn to blepeis
monof8alma.
> H Ellada se periptwsh polemou ofeilei prwta na e3asfalisei oti den 8a
xa8oun
> nhsia kai kata deyteron na eisballei sthn Tourkia, opote se periptwsh
> apwleias e8nikou edafous na exoume Tourkiko edafos na
diapragmateytoume.
Katarxas an epithethoyme stin dytiki |Thraki, st' arxidia toys an
paroyn 3 nisia. Prepei na xtyphsoyme thn Kwnstantinoypoli me 12
ekatomyria memetia. Pio polloi apo ton plythismo tis Elladas! Otan
hmoyn sto naytiko oloi oi malakes oi ypaksiomatikoi poy fysika itan
kseroles elegan gia tis merarxies sti thraki poy tha kanoyn ti dytiki
thraki 'cabrio' kai tha xtypisoyn tin Poli klp,klp. Otan omws mhloysa
me anwteroys aksiomatikoys i eikwna itan akrivws antitheti. Kai einai
profanes oti oi mikroi zoyn se agnoia ws synithws. Aytoi poy kseroyn
alla lene. Ki ayta poy lene einai symbata me ayta poy pathenoyme.
Thymase tis parenoxliseis sto C-130 toy Tsoxantzopoyloy poy epitiroyse
to amyntiko dogma? Rentikwlo twn skyliwn giname kai meta klegomaste sto
NATO kai stin EU giati mas kanene da. Afoy eimaste Don Koixotides kai
den frontizoyme prwta na organothoyme prin poylisoyme tsampouka
pairnoyme fysika t'arxidia mas.
> Alla to malakismeno mas dogma einai ka8ara amyntiko. TRIXES. H
kalyterh
> amyna einai h epi8esh, as paroume epitelous ena ma8hma apo thn
Tourkia ki as
> 3ypnhsoume.
>
Nomizw oti apanthsa.
> >Aplws thelei mia kali aformi, gia na dikeologithei, opws ekane stin
> >Kypro. Perimene perimene kai sto telos ti vrhke.
>
> La8os, oi aformes den briskontai, ftiaxnontai file...
>
Ela mwre, ola lathos ta briskeis. Kat arxas egw den eipa oti den
ftiaxnontai. Den exei simasia, eita ftiaxtes eite altihines, otan
yparxoyn oi Toyrkoi epitithente giati aploystata exoyn tis dynameis gia
na to kanoyn. Emeis gia na kanoyme to idio prepei na tis apokthsoyme
prwta. Alla eidh plhrwnoyme to 5% to AEP gia tis enoples dynameis.
Diladi posa tha prepei na plhrwsoyme. Kai den tha kataferoyme tipota
akoma kai na plhrwsoyme giati i isoropia dynamewn epitiritai apo tis
HPA. Ep oydenh den tha mas afisoyn na paroyme to panw xeri giati tote
tha exoyme ti dynatotita na apostatheropoihsoyme tin Toyrkia, kai tote
tha ginei mylos kai pane ta petrelai tis kaspias. Kai paei kai o
elegxos twn Irak, Iran akai allwn baremenwn tis perioxis. Mono an i EU
gienei antagwnistikos polos twn HPA tha doyme aspri mera.
> >An ta xaraktiristika poy les arkoysan, tha itan prothypoyrgoi oi
> >Goriles. Omws otan kathese stin hlektrikh karekla kai oi epiloges
> >einai, h tapeinvsoy h peks to yperifanos kai xase tria nhsia mazei me
> >toys katoikoys, tote o tharaleos politikos analamvanei to kwstos tis
> >prwtis epiloghs. Xreiazetai tharos kai tolmh kai sofia gia na
> >sygkrateis tin epithymia sou na gamiseis ton antipalo, otan se piezei
> >to varos tis eythynhs. O kathe eksypnakias mporei na leei oti thelei
> >alla katse prwta stin karekla kai meta pes ayta poy les. Egw den lew
> >oti eprakse swsta. Isws na mporoyse na praksei ligo kallitera, alla
> >genika toy exw empistosyni giati einai eksypnos.
>
> Wraia, o idios politikos omws prepei na exei thn ey8ynh oxi mono na
bazei
> ton eayto tou se tetoies katastaseis alla na bazei kai ton antipalo.
Kane
> kyrie mia magkia styl Imia na se paradextw! Oxi mono na ton trwme! Na
ton
> dinoume kai kamia fora. Ekei einai to 8arros kai h tolmh kai h
pragmatikh
> sofia.
> Se plhroforw oti an hmouna sthn karekla tou Shmith, toulaxiston 8a
eixa
> tsipa na paraith8w meta ton Otsalan.
O Pagkalos paretithike. E oxi kai oli i kybernisi re megale. Epidh thes
na bgei i Nea dimokratia twra, prepei na paretithei to PASOK? The na
kediseis me penalti? Vale gkwl kanonika kai kerdise.
> E3ypnos mporei na einai o Shmiths, alla einai e3ypnos gia ton eayto
tou,
> 3YPNA, ki oxi gia th xwra. Gi ayto loipon den einai katallhlos gia
hgeths
> kai prepei na apomakryn8ei.
Den exw katalavei oti o Simitis exei idioteleis skopoys... Tin
antitheti entypwsi moy dinei. Kai exw empistosyni sto kritirio moy
giati otan vlepw kapoion stin tileorasi na mhlaei, apo to styl toy, kai
to eidos twn epixeirimatwn toy ton 'kobw' an einai poustrakos i atomo
me aisthisi eythynhs. P.X. poystrakoi: Karatzaferis, o malakas o
ypourgos georgias pws ton lene, Tsovolas, karaminas, kati knites styl
Skylakoy klp klp. Ypeythinoi: Simitis, Vasw, Girgakis, Laliwtis(etsi ki
etsi), Papadhmos, Karamanlis, Varvitsotis (an kai trompas),
Mpakogianni, Avramopoylos (hmmm), Manos, Soyflias klp
Krinw apo to image, katalaves? Kai otan akoyw logia eis baros aytwn
poly dyskola ta pisteyw mexri na dw stoixeia kai na krinw.
>
> >Ti kataferan? Eksathliwthikan. Alla afoy den eixan ti na xasoyn den
> >toyw endiaferei. Kai min ksexnas tin diasyndesi Skopiwn Toyrkias. An
h
> >Ellada proevenai se stratiwtiki epixeirish, tha eprepe na parei
> >dynameis apo to metopo me tin Toyrkia. Poy kai kei den ftanoyn… O
> >Ellhnikos stratos exei mono kapoia simantiki apotreptiki ikanotita
alla
> >mhden epithetiki.
>
> E3a8liwmena htan otan egeiran 8ema Makedonias, e3a8liwmena einai kai
twra,
> alla mhn 3exnas oti einai kerdismena. Ayto giati efarmozoun e3ypna thn
> politikh tous, dhmiourgoun tetelesmena kai mas fernoun se dyskolh
8esh.
> As empaine o Ellhnikos stratos sta Skopia me to pou anakoinwnan to
syntagma
> kai th shmaia tous, dyo meres ypo8esh htan, poios 8a tous stamatouse?
Sou
> elega egw tote poios eixe to panw xeri. Oute dynameis megales
xreiazontan
> oute tipota. Ekei einai to la8os OLWN twn kybernhsewn, oti o stratos
den
> exei epi8etiko dogma. An perimenoume mono apo to amyntiko mas dogma,
zhtw
> pou kahkame.
>
Exw apantisei
Ma twra oi evraioi kai oi masonoi stin kybernisi ti sxesoi exoyn me
ayto? To gyrises twra sta skandinavika politistika xaraktiristika, poy
kaneis den eipe oti prepei na yiothetisoyme. Ayto poy afora tin
kyvernisi toys, einai i organwsi toy kratoys, i eswtweriki kai
ekswteriki politikh, ta sxolia, ta panepistimia, i oikonomia, ta
geirokomia poy einai san ksenodoxeia polytelias klp. Ws pros ayta einai
paradeigma pros mimisi. Ws pros ayta poy eipes oxi. Alla ta politistika
xaraktiristika kaneis den mporei na ta epivalei oyte vlepw to logo na
allaksoyn. Oyte einai thema kybernhshs. Prepei na kanei kaneis
diaxwrismo toy ti thelei kai ti den thelei ayto einai to dyskolo. To
lathos toy adynamoy einai na isopedwnei ola kai na ta aporyptei ola.
Ayto symbenei giati to myalo toy den mporei na diakrinei ti einai
thetiko kai ti oxi. H sygxhysi odigi sthn anasfaleia kai thn arnhsh.
> H koinwnia sthn Dytikh Eyrwph einai SKATA file, den yparxei
oikogeneia, den
> yparxoun h8h, den yparxoun desmoi tipota tipota tipota. An 8es na
gineis san
> ki aytous, gine, egw protimw na parameinw Ellhnas kai Mesogeios.
>
Opa, hrwiki eksodos. Egw eipa tetoio pragma? Ma prospatheis na
katalaveis ti lew? Katalave kai diafwnise alla mi moy les oti ekproswpw
pragmata poy den ekproswpw.
Ayto poy soy eipa einai fainomenika nomimo. Giati to kratos
anagrafontas to thriskeyma toy dinei ti dynatotita *xwris na to pei* na
praksei eis varos mou, dia tis prosvolis kai tis parenoxlisis sto
vathmo poy mporei na to dikeologisei. Ayto poy les esy, dhladh na me
rwthsei to thriskeyma, afenws tha dhksie oti einai karagiozhs kai
afetairoy einai katafanhs paratypia. Kai mporw na toy traviksw mia
mynhsh poy tha einai oli diki toy. Exei terastia diafora h mia
katastasi ap tin alli.
> Etsi to problhma lynetai sta sxoleia kai me alles paidagwgikes
me8odous, oxi
> me mia taytothta pou 8eloun swnei kai kala na thn alla3oun, kanontas
mas na
> pisteyoume malakies, oti kai kala 8a ly8oun etsi ola.
>Esy to pisteyeis?
Fysika kai den lynontai ola, alla merika lynonte.
Ayto moy fainetai eksofreniko poy les, alla isws na min katalava.
Dhjladh an soy dhksw tin taytotita moy, me basi tin proeraitiki anagrafh
poy tha leei, kyrios mitsos, nomarxia attikis, hmeromhnia gennhseos bla
bla, ti symperasma tha vgaleis gia tin poiothta toy atomoy moy. Gia pes
moy. eimai periergos.
k0mis
>O Kokallis tha xtisei ypodromo? Ma afou aftos den einai ergolavos.
Sorry, nai to 3exasa... Praktoras ths Stazi htane... :)
Ti les re megale, eisai sobaros....? O Kokkalhs epixeirhmatias einai o
an8rwpos, ton empodizei kaneis apo th mia mera sthn allh na mazepsei 50
politikous mhxanikous ap'aytous pou psofane gia douleia kai na ftia3ei mia
etairia? H mpizna einai mpizna file, mhn to 3exnas.
Kati
>allo tha ennoeis. Alla ayto poy les den mporeis na to apodhkseis.
Diabase tis efhmerides (ki oxi mono ta NEA kai to BHMA).
Les
>lekseis opws 'pasifanes', 'gegonos' klp alla ayta poy anafereis einai
>fimes apo ton adesmeyto typo... Eisai toso eypistos tote einai bebaio
>oti tha gineis o mister kaxypoptos.
Psit... Eimai hdh kaxypoptos, ayto einai fysiko, afou blepw ti xontra
paixnidia paizontai, afou blepw tous hli8ious xeirismous twn e3wterikn
8ematwn... To teleiws koufo 8a htan na tous empisteyomoun, alla blepw oti
esy tous empisteyesai, gi'ayto as mhn pw tipota...
Otan o kathe gyftos amorfotos
>dimosiografos pou exei idiotelh symferonta soy pasarei kati kai sy to
>trws tote, ftaneis sto simeio na zeis sto fantasioplikto kosmo soy,
>gemato synomosies kai skandala. Den lew oti den ginontai pousties, ayto
>einai bebaio, alla simasia exei i oliki eikona kai kyriws kata poso
>yparxei beltiwsi me to parelthon. Kai nomizw oti me ayti tin kybernish
>(Simiti kai oxi genika PASOK), yparxei.
Ti beltiwsh, plaka mas kaneis? Edw peiname re... eimaste oi ftwxoteroi ths
Eyrwphs... 40% apo emas oute diakopes den 8a pane fetos... Wraia, mphkame
sthn EE, eides esy kanena polith na ginetai pio eyporos kai na eymerei
perissotero? (Ektos twn "e3ygxronistwn", fysika)... H pragmatikh sygklish
apexei POLLA xronia kai den 3erw an exoume ta fonta ws oikonomia na
ante3oume... Den yparxei biomhxania, den yparxoun yphresies den yparxei
tipota... Poios 8a sthrh3ei thn oikonomia? Ta lefta tou laou teleiwsane,
pane.. Den exoume oute na plhrwsoume tous forous pia...
H beltiwsh antikatoptrizetai sto biwtiko epipedo tou laou, to opoio exei
pesei poly ta teleytaia xronia...
Gia na mhn pw twra gia ta e8nika 8emata... Beltiwsh=GIOK...
>Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin tis
>ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea Dimokratia.
>Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
Ki egw pou h8ela na katebw apo Glaskwbh gia A8hna den brhka tipota,
apenantias ola ta paidia edw ta tw PASOK proskeimena htane katw... :) Mh les
tipota... Exw kales phges pou fanerwnoun arista to posous efere to PASOK...
Asygkrita megalyteros ari8mos apo thn ND...
>Gegonos einai oti to apotelesma twn eklogwn itan oti legan ola ta
>gkalop, synepws papse na fantasiwnesai nothies.
Den tis fantasiw8hka, einai pragmatikothta... Epeidh den se symferei omws,
htane fantasiwseis... As einai... O pateras mou mou leei psemata, enw esy
mou les thn alh8eia... :)) Nai, pws...
H pragmatikotita einai
>oti i Nea Dimokratia epapse na ekproswpei kapia yparkti tasi stin
>koinwnia gi ayto den prokeitai pote na ksanavgei. An deis tis taseis
>tha deis oti to PASOK kalyptei sxedwn eks olokliroy (70-80%) to meseo
>xwro. H Nea Dimokratia exei ginei ena sxedon akrodeksio kwma. Se
>prosfato gkalop sto Vima nomizw (an thes to exw kapoy na soy pw poy
>einai) oi psifoforoi tis Neas Dimokratias apanthsan se pososto peripoy
>70% oti me klimaka 0-10 (0=kentro) thewroyn ton eayto toys 7 deksia enw
>allo ena 20% eipe 8. Ayto simenei syriknwsi kai mi nomizeis oti egw
>eimai pasoktzis, den exw psifisei pasok oyte mia fora. enw ND exw
>psifisei 3 fores...
Ela re megale... Kai to PASOK dhladh einai kentroaristera? De mas xez..s lew
egw... H pragmatikothta einai oti h ND antiproswpeyei olous aytous pou exoun
ta matia anoixta kai den pisteyoun thn 8riambologia, alla thn
pragmatikothta... H pragmatikothta einai oti h ND antiproswpeyse olous
autous pou den anexontia pia thn koroidia... Mexri kai aristeroi filoi phgan
kai pshfisan ND... Oxi epeidh h ND einai h kalyterh, alla epeidh aganakthsan
pia me to PASOK...
H ND den einai to komma pou 8a swsei thn Ellada, ayth th stigmh tetoio komma
den yparxei... Pantws apo to PASOK, 1000 fores protimoterh...
>Kala pios eipe tetoio pragma? Tha papseis na ypotheteis apopseis dikies
>moy poy pote den eipa? Exeis sximatisei mia eikona gia to ti ekproswpw
>poy se diabebaiw apexei ap tin pragmatikotita... Alla ante na apodeiksw
>se sena oti den eimai Elefantas.
Apanthse se parakalw sthn ousia... Einai ontws leptomereies oles aytes oi
e8nikes tapeinwseis pou sou eipa? Den dinoun enaysma sthn Tourkia gia
megalyteres diekdhkhseis?? Den dinoun se kanena thn entypwsh oti h Ellada
einai mia xwra pou thn kanoun oti 8eloun?
>Ayto poy les einai paralogo. Dhladh an se pei kapoios elefanta, esy
>prepei na apodikseis oti den eisai? Profanws aytos poy isxyrizetai kati
>prepei na paroysiasei koiws apodekta stoixeia gia na stiriksei ton
>isxyrismo toy. Kai sy den to exeis kanei mexri twra.
>Les 'marionetes','poylimenoi', klp klp alla ayta poy paroysiazeis ws
>stoixeia kata ti gnwmi moy den stekoyn gia toys logoys poy eksigisa.
Xese mas twra, oxi kai na mas peis oti ola ayta, ta imia, oi s300, o
otsalan, eginan gia to symferon ths Elladas... Mh me tsantizeis, diabase ta
logia sou kai parade3ou oti les malakies... O kalyteros symmaxos mas htane
to Kourdistan kai tous prodwsame, mh mou les oti htane gia to symferon mas.
>Bebai edw na pw oti kai otan itan kybernish Mitsotaki ta pasokia ta
>idia legane gia ayton, alla egw kai tote elega oti lew twra gia to
>Simiti. Kai edw einai i diafora megale. Oti den tropoiw aposi me vasi
>to an psifisa afton poy kyberna. Prospathw na dw an kanei to kallitero
>dynato me vasi tin katastasi poy parelabe. Kai na sou pw, diaxwrizw tin
>Kybernisis Simiti apo alles kyberniseis PASOK kai tin epomeni fora isws
>kai na ton psifisw. To mono provlima me ton Simiti einai to PASOK...
To mono problhma me to Shmith einai o Shmiths :) Ase mas re megale... Edw o
an8rwpos alla leei kai alla kanei, ayto einai hliou faeinotero. H politikh
tou den exei bash kai einai epizhmia gia th xwra, sou exw pei polles fores
posa kaka mas exei kanei.. Pes mou twra ki esy ta kala...
An htane aplos synadelfos sou, oute na ton ftyseis den 8a dexosouna... Twra
8es na tou empisteyteis kai thn poreia ths Xwras? Eftase o e3ygxronismos na
shmainei "koitame thn tseph mas"... Sygnwmh, alla den einai ayth poreia gia
to kalo ths patridas...
>Nai giati einai se kathari thesi isxyws... Exei 400 F-16, 800 000
>xiliades strato, klp, klp. A kai ti stiriksi twn USA. Oi teleytaioi den
>theloyn epoydenh h Toyrkia na apostatheropoihthei gia gnwstoys
>geopolitikoys logoys.
Nai kai ta Skopia exoune 1 elikoptero kai 4 tzip, kai koita ti kataferane...
Mhn les oti 8es pali... O Dabid nikhse to Golia8, kai h Ellada mporei na
nikhsei thn Tourkia arkei na yparxoun antres me myalo kai kotsia kai
propantwn agaph gia thn Ellada sthn e3ousia... Ayth h httopa8eia 8a mas
faei...
Opote toys symperiferontai kata to anekdwto, o
>giatros moy eipe na soy lew panta nai! Oti poystia kai na kanoyn, oi
>Amerikanoi tha kanoyn to koroido giati me ena tsak kai i Toyrkia tha
>ginei mylos. Gi ayto toys poylane opla mpir para, elikoptera, tanks,
>systimata parakwloythisis, mexri kai ergostasio gia F-16 toys
>ftiaksane, mpas kai toys teleiwsoyne ta aeroplana. Kai fysika ola ayta
>gia na epitiroyn kyriws to eswteriko kai toys Kourdoys alla kai ta
>anatolika kyriws sunora toys.
To anekdoto den to 3erw, pesto mou giati mou aresoune poly ta anekdota...
Oson afora to ergostasio, an h Ellada eixe swsth politikh 8a eixe agorasei
80 F16 ki oxi 40 kai 40 M2000, 8a eixei problepsei thn anagkh mellontikhs
agoras kai me to synolo twn 150 F16 pou exoume paraggeilei mexri shmera 8a
eixame apaithsei na exoume ftia3ei kai diko mas ergostasio. Alla oxi, afou
den exoume e8nikh politikh kai e8niko sxediasmo, trixes katsares... Na dw
twra ti 8a ginei me ta EF2000... As elpisoume oti den 8a epanalhf8oun ta
la8h tou parel8ontos...
H Ellada exei polla myala idiws sto xwro ths aeronayphgikhs 8a mporousame na
eimaste oi kalyteroi ths Mesogeiou... Mia seira omws lan8asmenwn xeirismwn
apo to PASOK oxi aplws ka8ysterhse, alla exei anabalei ep'aoriston thn
ypar3h sobarhs (aeronayphghkhs) biomhxanias sthn Ellada...
Omws tipota den empodizei toys Toyrkoys
>na xrisimopoioyn ta opla ayta kai sta dytika toys synora. Min ksexnas
>oti o Toyrkikos Stratos, i toylaxiston megalo tmima toy einai maximos,
>diladi exei symetasxei se pragmatikes maxes (peripoy) sta vouna toy
>Koyrdistan. Emeis apo tin allh eimaste tragikoi lapades, poy an ginei
>tipota tha skorpisoyme san tis panikovlites kotes. Den kserw an exeis
>paei strato... To 40 me toys Italoys kai toys Germanoys eixame ena
>kataponimeno strato poy omws eixe gamithei stoys polemoys. Apo
>balkanikoys mexri mikra asia. Twra oi frapedomagkes nomizeis oti exoyn
>kamia sxesi? Tha paroyme ta arxidia mas kai tha psaxnoyme na vroyme
>pios ftaiei... H parametros poy leipei apo to skeptiko soy einai o
>orthologismos. H kardia kai to ithiko einai poly vasika, alla oso
>megala kai na einai, pairneis t'arxidia soy an den eisai kai
>orthologistis. Paradhgma i mikrasiatiki katastrofi kai oi eksegerseis
>kata twn Toyrkwn prin toys balkanikoys polemoys. Palia ponemeni
>istoria...
Symfwnw. Omws kai to 99% tou amerikanikou stratou den exei dei polemikh
drash, omws skisane tous Irakinous pou polemousane to Iran xronia kai
xronia... Blepeis ekei yparxei swsth ekpaideysh, organwsh kai dogma... Sthn
Ellada, dystyxws, de ma8ainoume pote...
Pou einai loipon h politeia na ftia3ei ena swsto strato me ena swsto dogma?
H symmetoxh se eirhneytikes apostoles einai kalh giati dinei sto hgetiko
proswpiko polemikh empeiria. Toulaxiston ayto einai ena bhma mprosta...
>Nai kai ksereis ti tha ginei? Tha paroyn mia mygoskotwstra kai tha mas
>epitethoyn... Thymasai to koino amyntiko dogma? Gnwrizw prwin AGEETHA
>kai malista sxetiko me ta episodia toy 87 kai me tin dimioyrgia toy
>eniaioy amyntikoy dogmatos apo ton Papantreoy. Aytos apo tote elege oti
>to koino amyntiko dogma oi Toyrkoi tha mas to valoyn ston kwlo. Kai
>etsi kai egine. Gia ton apoloystato logo oti oi enoples dynameis den
>exoyn ti dynatothta na yperaspisytoyn ola ayta ta nisia kai tin Kypro
>poy einai stoy diaoloy ti mana. Ta opla poy xreiazomaste einai apithana
>afenws den exoyme lefta gia na ta agwrasoyme, kai af etairoy pithanwn
>kai na min mas ta deinoyn. Ta geopolitika symferonta twn HPA symbenei
>teleytaia na einai eis baros mas. Kai prepei na eimaste poly
>prosextikoi gia na min fame kanena xontro paloyki aktws apo ta mikra
>poy trwme kai tha trwme. Gi ayto fagothikame na gantzwthoyme apo thn
>eurwpaiki enwsi, gia na swsoyme to kolaraki mas. Giati Yparxei
>periptwsi (oxi sigoyra) i EU na ekselixtei se antagwnistiko polo twn
>HPA opote ayto tha mas synefere. Syn toy oti exoyme kapoia epirroh
>ekei. Petyxame kai ena Elsinki an kai den arnoyme oti yparxei
>pithanotita kai ayto na mas to valoyn ston kwlo... Eidwmen
Dystyxws nomizw oti oi problepseis sou 8a goun alh8ines. Gia ka8e problhma
omws yparxei mia lysh, alla ayth th lysh dystyxws den blepw kanena na thn
psaxnei... H e3wterikh mas politikh einai teleiws erasitexnikh... Ayto
prepei na paradexteis oti einai alh8eia... Gia na swsoume loipon to kwlaraki
mas, de mas ftanei mono mia EE, alla prepei na kounh8oume kai apo monoi mas.
Xesthke ki h EE gia to diko mas symferon... Gia na mhn liwsoume loipon katw
apo th mygoskotwstra, as ginei epitelous mia swsth xara3h e8nikhs politikhs,
apo ypey8yna atoma ki oxi apo erasitexnes pou den blepoun pera apo ta 4
xronia ths masas....
>Katarxas an epithethoyme stin dytiki |Thraki, st' arxidia toys an
>paroyn 3 nisia. Prepei na xtyphsoyme thn Kwnstantinoypoli me 12
>ekatomyria memetia. Pio polloi apo ton plythismo tis Elladas! Otan
>hmoyn sto naytiko oloi oi malakes oi ypaksiomatikoi poy fysika itan
>kseroles elegan gia tis merarxies sti thraki poy tha kanoyn ti dytiki
>thraki 'cabrio' kai tha xtypisoyn tin Poli klp,klp. Otan omws mhloysa
>me anwteroys aksiomatikoys i eikwna itan akrivws antitheti. Kai einai
>profanes oti oi mikroi zoyn se agnoia ws synithws. Aytoi poy kseroyn
>alla lene. Ki ayta poy lene einai symbata me ayta poy pathenoyme.
>Thymase tis parenoxliseis sto C-130 toy Tsoxantzopoyloy poy epitiroyse
>to amyntiko dogma? Rentikwlo twn skyliwn giname kai meta klegomaste sto
>NATO kai stin EU giati mas kanene da. Afoy eimaste Don Koixotides kai
>den frontizoyme prwta na organothoyme prin poylisoyme tsampouka
>pairnoyme fysika t'arxidia mas.
Den 8a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero... Eytyxws parathrw oti blepeis kai
ta straba tou Shmith kai ths pareas tou... Swsta?
>Ela mwre, ola lathos ta briskeis. Kat arxas egw den eipa oti den
>ftiaxnontai. Den exei simasia, eita ftiaxtes eite altihines, otan
>yparxoyn oi Toyrkoi epitithente giati aploystata exoyn tis dynameis gia
>na to kanoyn. Emeis gia na kanoyme to idio prepei na tis apokthsoyme
>prwta. Alla eidh plhrwnoyme to 5% to AEP gia tis enoples dynameis.
>Diladi posa tha prepei na plhrwsoyme.
To 4% tou AEP kai na fygoun oi mizes... :)
Kai den tha kataferoyme tipota
>akoma kai na plhrwsoyme giati i isoropia dynamewn epitiritai apo tis
>HPA. Ep oydenh den tha mas afisoyn na paroyme to panw xeri giati tote
>tha exoyme ti dynatotita na apostatheropoihsoyme tin Toyrkia, kai tote
>tha ginei mylos kai pane ta petrelai tis kaspias. Kai paei kai o
>elegxos twn Irak, Iran akai allwn baremenwn tis perioxis. Mono an i EU
>gienei antagwnistikos polos twn HPA tha doyme aspri mera.
Mporei, alla mexri na ginei h EE polos antagwnismou, giati emeis kopsame ta
idia mas ta xeria katastrefontas thn egxwria polemikh biomhxania? 3ereis ti
8aymata mporousame na exoume kanei? 3ereis ti texnologia paragetai sto KETA
(kentro ereynas-texnologias aeroporias)?? Mexri bombes laser kalyteres apo
tis amerikanikes exoun sxediastei ekei pera, polu prin h Ellada paraggeilei
tis prwtes ths bombes...
Bebaia se tetoia periptwsh den 8a eixan ginei oi mizes, opote to olo
programma aporrif8hke...
>O Pagkalos paretithike. E oxi kai oli i kybernisi re megale. Epidh thes
>na bgei i Nea dimokratia twra, prepei na paretithei to PASOK? The na
>kediseis me penalti? Vale gkwl kanonika kai kerdise.
Psit... esy ti 8a ekanes..? Den 8a ntreposoun kai o idios? Esy ton ebales
sth 8esh tou ton Pagkalo, esy den 8a eixes kammia ey8ynh??? Tsipa GIOK file,
tsipa giok...
>Den exw katalavei oti o Simitis exei idioteleis skopoys... Tin
>antitheti entypwsi moy dinei. Kai exw empistosyni sto kritirio moy
>giati otan vlepw kapoion stin tileorasi na mhlaei, apo to styl toy, kai
>to eidos twn epixeirimatwn toy ton 'kobw' an einai poustrakos i atomo
>me aisthisi eythynhs.
Lol... kai poios trwei olon ayto ton kairo, egw ki esy? Poios einai aytos
pou alla leei kai alla kanei.. :)))) Mporeis na exeis osh empistosynh 8eleis
ston eayto sou alla mhn 3exnas oti den eisai alan8astos... Oson afora to
styl tou Shmith, o an8rwpos oute na milhsei swsta den h3ere re sy...
P.X. poystrakoi: Karatzaferis, o malakas o
>ypourgos georgias pws ton lene, Tsovolas, karaminas, kati knites styl
>Skylakoy klp klp. Ypeythinoi: Simitis, Vasw, Girgakis, Laliwtis(etsi ki
>etsi), Papadhmos, Karamanlis, Varvitsotis (an kai trompas),
>Mpakogianni, Avramopoylos (hmmm), Manos, Soyflias klp
>Krinw apo to image, katalaves? Kai otan akoyw logia eis baros aytwn
>poly dyskola ta pisteyw mexri na dw stoixeia kai na krinw.
E, tote apo to image 8a eprepe na sou aresei kai o Xristodoulos, einai ontws
poly fwtogenhs... Ama krineis apo to image, prepei na sou pw oti to krithrio
sou einai gia gelia.. Den krinoume to biblio apo to e3wfyllo file... Ton
3ereis ton Papa8emelh? Einai poly pio morfwmenos, ypey8ynos kai a3iologos
apo olh thn kybernhsh ki aytous poy anafereis mazi, alla den ton eida sth
lista sou... Logw image, ypo8etw...
>Ma twra oi evraioi kai oi masonoi stin kybernisi ti sxesoi exoyn me
>ayto? To gyrises twra sta skandinavika politistika xaraktiristika, poy
>kaneis den eipe oti prepei na yiothetisoyme. Ayto poy afora tin
>kyvernisi toys, einai i organwsi toy kratoys, i eswtweriki kai
>ekswteriki politikh, ta sxolia, ta panepistimia, i oikonomia, ta
>geirokomia poy einai san ksenodoxeia polytelias klp. Ws pros ayta einai
>paradeigma pros mimisi. Ws pros ayta poy eipes oxi. Alla ta politistika
>xaraktiristika kaneis den mporei na ta epivalei oyte vlepw to logo na
>allaksoyn. Oyte einai thema kybernhshs. Prepei na kanei kaneis
>diaxwrismo toy ti thelei kai ti den thelei ayto einai to dyskolo. To
>lathos toy adynamoy einai na isopedwnei ola kai na ta aporyptei ola.
>Ayto symbenei giati to myalo toy den mporei na diakrinei ti einai
>thetiko kai ti oxi. H sygxhysi odigi sthn anasfaleia kai thn arnhsh.
A, ma blepeis twra oti pas kontra sta logia sou? Loipon afou to 60% den
8elei na alla3ei ta politismika tou xarakthristika, 8a tou ta alla3ei o
Shmiths swnei kai kala? Den einai isopedwtikh kai aporriptikh h politikh tou
Shmith pou oute na syzhthsei den dexetai?
>Opa, hrwiki eksodos. Egw eipa tetoio pragma? Ma prospatheis na
>katalaveis ti lew? Katalave kai diafwnise alla mi moy les oti ekproswpw
>pragmata poy den ekproswpw.
>
E tote otan les oti oi Ollandoi einai paradeigma pros mimhsh, na
dieykrinizeis ti les.
>Ayto poy soy eipa einai fainomenika nomimo. Giati to kratos
>anagrafontas to thriskeyma toy dinei ti dynatotita *xwris na to pei* na
>praksei eis varos mou, dia tis prosvolis kai tis parenoxlisis sto
>vathmo poy mporei na to dikeologisei. Ayto poy les esy, dhladh na me
>rwthsei to thriskeyma, afenws tha dhksie oti einai karagiozhs kai
>afetairoy einai katafanhs paratypia. Kai mporw na toy traviksw mia
>mynhsh poy tha einai oli diki toy. Exei terastia diafora h mia
>katastasi ap tin alli.
8a tou klaseis ta 3 tou astynomikou pou 8a se rwthsei... Sygnwmh alla den
einai etsi opws ta les ta pragmata. Giati efoson h astynomia einai klika den
nomizw oti exeis kai polles pi8anothtes na petyxei h mhnysh sou... Pistepse
me... den exeis kammia pi8anothta. Xwria pou mporei na se spasoune kai sto
3ylo.
Pes oti den anagrafetai to 8rhskeyma. Na deis pou kai h Ekklhsia 8a bgalei
aytokollhtakia XO pou 8a ta bazoune sthn taytothta. Ayto einai dedomeno. Ti
8a ginei tote?
>Fysika kai den lynontai ola, alla merika lynonte.
Ela twra, ti lynetai....
>Ayto moy fainetai eksofreniko poy les, alla isws na min katalava.
>Dhjladh an soy dhksw tin taytotita moy, me basi tin proeraitiki anagrafh
>poy tha leei, kyrios mitsos, nomarxia attikis, hmeromhnia gennhseos bla
>bla, ti symperasma tha vgaleis gia tin poiothta toy atomoy moy. Gia pes
>moy. eimai periergos.
An h taytothta sou den grafei kapoio 8rhskeyma mporw na symperanw px oti
eite fobasai na dei3eis poios eisai, eite oti den eisai tipota, dhl a8eos,
ara pali kati eisai kai fobasai na to peis. An grafeis oti eisai 20 xronwn
kai eggamos mporw na symperanw ws ena ba8mo oti mallon kati den paei kala me
sena, h trelos eisai kai pantreythkes sta 20 h afhses kai se koutoupwsane...
8a koufainosoun an h3eres ti sympairainoun gia sena oi diafores etairies kai
yphresies me bash thn taytothta sou, to grafiko sou xarakthra, ta hobbies
sou, thn proeleysh sou, thn hlikia sou, ton tropo pou ntynesai, ta xrwmata
pou sou aresoun, to aytokinhto pou odhgeis.... Pragmata pou fainomenika
einai anwdyna kai den exeis problhma na ta peis, metafrazontai se alla
dedomena me bash psyxologikes kai statistikes ereynes. Oxi panta swsta, alla
metafrazontai. To ti yliko exw dei edw mesa sthn Compaq gia tetoies
ypo8eseis, eidika apo to tmhma an8rwpinou dynamikou, den legetai...
Na pernas kala,
Antreas.
Asteras Amaliadas
>>Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin tis
>>ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea Dimokratia.
>>Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
>
>Ki egw pou h8ela na katebw apo Glaskwbh gia A8hna den brhka tipota,
>apenantias ola ta paidia edw ta tw PASOK proskeimena htane katw... :) Mh les
>tipota... Exw kales phges pou fanerwnoun arista to posous efere to PASOK...
>Asygkrita megalyteros ari8mos apo thn ND...
Επειδή στις τελευταίες εκλογές σε τέτοια αεροπλάνα (Λονδίνο-Αθήνα)
πέταξαν πολλοί δικοί μου, σας δηλώνω ότι στο ίδιο αεροπλάνο της
Ολυμπιακής τις μισές θέσεις τις είχε ναυλώσει η ΝΔ και τις άλλες μισές
το ΠΑΣΟΚ. Μάλιστα ξέρω και τις τιμές που στοίχησαν... 40 λίρες η ΝΔ
και 65 το ΠΑΣΟΚ. Έγιναν πολλές τέτοιες πτήσεις (τρεις την ημέρα, με
Αιρμπάς, για τουλάχιστον μία βδομάδα). Τώρα γιατί ο Αντρέας δεν βρήκε,
είναι άλλου παπά ευαγγέλιο και να μην βγαίνει να μας κάνει το θύμα!
Είτε δεν είχε μεγάλο δόντι στην ΟΝΝΕΔ, είτε γιατί ήθελε η ΟΝΝΕΔ να του
πληρώσει και την εσωτερική πτήση Γλασκώβης-Λονδίνου (πράγμα που δεν
έκανε κανείς).
Το ΚΚΕ, ΔΗΚΚΙ και ο Συν δεν πήραν ούτε ένα εισητήριο!
Η ερώτηση είναι: Ποιος πληρώνει τι διαφορά ανάμεσα στις 20.000 ή
35.000 και 110.000 που κάνει το εισιτήριο (μιλάμε για 75.000 ή 90.000
δρχ ανά εισητήριο και εκδόθηκαν εκατοντάδες,δηλαδή αν το αεροπλάνο
χωρά 200 θέσεις, τότε η διαφορά είναι 50 εκατομύρια ημερισίως); Και η
απάντηση ΑΠΛΗ: Ο ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΟΣ ΦΟΡΟΛΟΓΟΥΜΕΝΟΣ ΛΑΟΣ! Τα κόμματα ακόμα
χρωστούν τις διαφορές αυτές των εισητηρίων από τις εκλογές του...
'90!!! Κι όμως, η Ολυμπιακή επιμένει να τους χορηγεί τέτοια εισητήρια,
ακόμα και φέτος με τους Άγγλους "εξυγιαντές"... ΙΔΟΥ λοιπόν ποιος
κάνει διασπάθιση δημόσιου χρήματος! Ποιος οδηγεί την Ολυμπιακή στην
χρεωκοπία και τελικά στο ξεπούλημα! Είναι ΚΑΙ ΤΑ ΔΥΟ ΚΟΜΜΑΤΑ ΤΟ ΙΔΙΟ
ΣΥΝΕΝΟΧΑ!
>Antreas.
Μάγκες, όταν γράφετε τέτοιες ανακρίβιες, να έχετε υπ΄ όψιν σας και σε
ποιους απευθύνεστε! Το newsgroup αυτό το διαβάζουν πολλοί έλληνες
φοιτητές της Αγγλίας (κάποιοι μάλιστα θα πέταξαν κιόλας με τις πτήσεις
που "δεν υπήρχαν") και θα γελάνε αυτήν την ώρα μαζί σας!
Αστέρας Αμαλιάδας
k0mis
Hremhse... Se kanena komma den exw donti... :)) Sou milaw gia eishthria
kanonika ta opoia 8a eplhrwna apo thn tseph mou... Den brhka eishthrio,
toulaxiston tetoio pou na mou epetrepe h oikonomikh mou katatash na agorasw,
se mia periodo pou den htan kai h touristikoterh.. Twra to pws ola ta paidia
pou htan tou pasok katebhkan sthn Ellada otan ta kanonika eishthria htan
panakriba, ayto as to mantepseis esy. Pantws ta alla paidia pou den htan tou
pasok, kai milaw kai gia th de3ia kai thn aristera kai gia tous oudeterous,
emeinan ola edw.
Oson afora thn Olympiakh, exeis apolyto dikio, oti kai ta dyo megala kommata
exoun tromeres ofeiles pros ton e8niko aerometaforea...
Allo ena paradeigma ths foberhs kakodiaxeirhshs pou xarakthrhzei to
dhmosio... Pantws kai na dinontan ola ayta ta lefta pisw sthn Olympiakh, kai
pali elleima 8a yphrxe, etsi opws thn kanane oi "manager"... To 3erate oti
eixan dromologhsei sxedio na poulhsoun to megalytero meros tou stolou mazi
me kinhthres kai antallaktika se e3eytelistikh timh? Peran ap'aytou, eixan
skopo na antikatasthsoun ta aeroplana ayta me leasing allwn, mesw apey8eias
kai paranomhs ana8eshs, se tetoia timh kai gia tetoio xroniko diasthma pou
mexri na teleiwsei to leasing 8a eixe plhrwsei h OA ta 3/4 ths a3ias tous an
ta eixe agorasei kainouria. Eytyxws toulaxiston ayta ta sxedia mallon
mataiwnontai me thn apomakrynsh twn Agglwn...
Antreas
YG: Stis epomenes ekloges pou 8a exei kleisei pia oristika h OA, pws 8a
feroune Ellhnes? Me EasyJet? :))
Asteras Amaliadas wrote in message
<34djms8u75ofgfjcs...@4ax.com>...
>On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:00:19 +0100, "k0mis" <a...@an.an> wrote:
>
>>>Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin tis
>>>ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea Dimokratia.
>>>Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
>>
>>Ki egw pou h8ela na katebw apo Glaskwbh gia A8hna den brhka tipota,
>>apenantias ola ta paidia edw ta tw PASOK proskeimena htane katw... :) Mh
les
>>tipota... Exw kales phges pou fanerwnoun arista to posous efere to
PASOK...
>>Asygkrita megalyteros ari8mos apo thn ND...
>
>A?aea? ooeo oaeaooa?ao aeeiaYo oa oYoiea aani?eUia (Eiia?ii-Ae?ia)
>?Yoaiai ?ieei? aeei? iio, oao ace?iu uoe ooi ?aei aani?eUii oco
>Ieoi?eae?o oeo ieoYo eYoaeo oeo a??a iaoe?oae c IA eae oeo Ueeao ieoYo
>oi DAOIE. IUeeooa iYnu eae oeo oeiYo ?io ooi??coai... 40 e?nao c IA
>eae 65 oi DAOIE. ,aeiai ?ieeYo oYoieao ?o?oaeo (onaeo oci ciYna, ia
>Aeni?Uo, aea oioeU?eooii i?a aaiiUaa). O?na aeao? i AionYao aai an?ea,
>a?iae Ueeio ?a?U aoaaaYeei eae ia ici aaa?iae ia iao eUiae oi eyia!
>A?oa aai a??a iaaUei auioe ooci IIIAA, a?oa aeao? ?eaea c IIIAA ia oio
>?ecn?oae eae oci aouoanee? ?o?oc Aeaoe?aco-Eiia?iio (?nUaia ?io aai
>Yeaia eaia?o).
>
>Oi EEA, ACEEE eae i Ooi aai ??nai iyoa Yia aeoco?nei!
>
>C an?ococ a?iae: Dieio ?ecn?iae oe aeaoinU aiUiaoa ooeo 20.000 ?
>35.000 eae 110.000 ?io eUiae oi aeoeo?nei (ieeUia aea 75.000 ? 90.000
>an? aiU aeoco?nei eae aeaueceai aeaoiioUaao,aceaa? ai oi aani?eUii
>?unU 200 eYoaeo, ouoa c aeaoinU a?iae 50 aeaoiiynea cianeo?uo); Eae c
>a?Uiococ ADEC: I AEECIEEIO OINIEIAIOIAIIO EAIO! Oa euiiaoa aeuia
>?nuooiyi oeo aeaoinYo aooYo oui aeococn?ui a?u oeo aeeiaYo oio...
>'90!!! Ee uiuo, c Ieoi?eae? a?eiYiae ia oioo ?incaa? oYoiea aeoco?nea,
>aeuia eae oYoio ia oioo caaeioo "aioaeaioYo"... EAIO eie?ui ?ieio
>eUiae aeao?Ueeoc aciuoeio ?n?iaoio! Dieio iacaa? oci Ieoi?eae? ooci
>?nauei??a eae oaeeeU ooi ia?iyecia! A?iae EAE OA AOI EIIIAOA OI EAEI
>OOIAII?A!
>
>>Antreas.
>
>IUaeao, uoai anUoaoa oYoieao aiaen?aeao, ia Y?aoa o?? uoei oao eae oa
>?ieioo a?aoeyiaooa! Oi newsgroup aoou oi aeaaUaioi ?ieei? Yeeciao
>oieocoYo oco Aaae?ao (eU?ieie iUeeooa ea ?Yoaiai eeueao ia oeo ?o?oaeo
>?io "aai o??n?ai") eae ea aaeUia aoo?i oci ?na iaa? oao!
>
>AooYnao AiaeeUaao
omadeon
Koita3e na deis file mou. To pio eutyxes gegonos apo ola einai
to oti emeis oi duo symfiliw8hkame kai mporoume kai milame, enw
arxika tsougkrisame. Kapou ma8ame ton tropo na diafwnoume kai
omws na synnenooumaste. Twra...
Sto basiko sullogismo sou parapanw, teinw na symfwnw, oti 8a htan
ontws _polu_ megalh poustia na alla3ei KAI h shmaia mas, alla...
KAMMIA eurwpa.i.kh xwra den alla3e to stayro sth dikh ths shmaia
(apo ekeines poy exoun stayro), plhn ekeinhs pou eixe... agkylwto
stauro! Oxi mono h Bretannia alla kai h Dania exoun stayrous tous
opoious den apoxwrizontai me tipota, parolo pou h pleiopshfia twn
katoikwn autwn twn xwrwn se statistikes dhlwnooyn "a8eoi" h' kai
"agnwstikistes" sto 8rhskeuma (to opoio paramenei TYPIKA kai mono
xristianiko).
Etsi den pisteyw kai na alla3ei h dikh mas shmaia, af'enos giati
kai h bretannikh shmaia den alla3e ka8olou, PAROLO pou einai (h
Bretannia) shmera, to... 51o / 52o asteri ths... asteroessas. Kai
af'eterou, dioti opws h pleiopshfia twn Danwn / Egglezwn dhlwnoyn
fanera mh-xristianoi (a8eoi/agnwstikistes) etsi kai h pleiopshfia
twn ragiadwn rwmanwn (katoikwn ths shmerinhs Elladikhs xwras) den
exei kanena problhma na tsiftentelizetai ta bradya dhlwnontas olo
kai pio epishma to... Tourkiko e8niko tous fronhma kai 8rhskeyma!!
EPOMENWS, dia ths... aplhs me8odou twn triwn, opws akribws h Dania
DEN allazei shmaia -enw einai "antixristh xwra" :-), paromoiws
kai h... Ellas. H opoia parepiptonws DEN mporei na pe9anei apo tote
pou... brukolakiase peftontas sta xeria twn... agadwn ths nyxtas.
(Mpougas, Roubas, Drakoulas, kai alloi)
Telos pantwn.... :-)
Ma den einai sobares autes oi kindynologies. Edw o kosmos kaigetai
ki orismenoi asxolountai me kati kwloxarta, kai me to endexomeno
na alla3oun kapoia... istorika karabopana.... mmm gkouxou gkoux...
Idou pantws ena tragoudi techno epi tou teleutaiou endexomenou:
(aplousteuthke twra kai to URL):
http://www.geocities.com/omadeon/#CHRISTODOULOS
Regards
Omadeon
http://omadeon.iuma.com
http://www.mp3.com/omadeon
k0mis
> to oti emeis oi duo symfiliw8hkame kai mporoume kai milame, enw
> arxika tsougkrisame. Kapou ma8ame ton tropo na diafwnoume kai
> omws na synnenooumaste. Twra...
Σωστος!!!!!
>
> Sto basiko sullogismo sou parapanw, teinw na symfwnw, oti 8a htan
> ontws _polu_ megalh poustia na alla3ei KAI h shmaia mas, alla...
> KAMMIA eurwpa.i.kh xwra den alla3e to stayro sth dikh ths shmaia
> (apo ekeines poy exoun stayro), plhn ekeinhs pou eixe... agkylwto
> stauro! Oxi mono h Bretannia alla kai h Dania exoun stayrous tous
> opoious den apoxwrizontai me tipota, parolo pou h pleiopshfia twn
> katoikwn autwn twn xwrwn se statistikes dhlwnooyn "a8eoi" h' kai
> "agnwstikistes" sto 8rhskeuma (to opoio paramenei TYPIKA kai mono
> xristianiko).
> Etsi den pisteyw kai na alla3ei h dikh mas shmaia, af'enos giati
> kai h bretannikh shmaia den alla3e ka8olou, PAROLO pou einai (h
> Bretannia) shmera, to... 51o / 52o asteri ths... asteroessas. Kai
> af'eterou, dioti opws h pleiopshfia twn Danwn / Egglezwn dhlwnoyn
> fanera mh-xristianoi (a8eoi/agnwstikistes) etsi kai h pleiopshfia
> twn ragiadwn rwmanwn (katoikwn ths shmerinhs Elladikhs xwras) den
> exei kanena problhma na tsiftentelizetai ta bradya dhlwnontas olo
> kai pio epishma to... Tourkiko e8niko tous fronhma kai 8rhskeyma!!
>
> EPOMENWS, dia ths... aplhs me8odou twn triwn, opws akribws h Dania
> DEN allazei shmaia -enw einai "antixristh xwra" :-), paromoiws
> kai h... Ellas. H opoia parepiptonws DEN mporei na pe9anei apo tote
> pou... brukolakiase peftontas sta xeria twn... agadwn ths nyxtas.
> (Mpougas, Roubas, Drakoulas, kai alloi)
Μην κοιτας τι κανουν οι αλλοι ρε μεγαλε Ομαδεον... Οι αλλοι ειναι
<<Ευρωπαιοι>>, θα τους πει τι κανεις τι να κανουν με την σημαια τους, αν θα
μπορουν να την υψωνουν σε ολα τα μερη της χωρας τους η οχι, οπως μας λενε
εμας...;
Ο συλλογισμος σου ενω ειναι καθησυχαστικος, εντουτοις δεν ειναι ρεαλιστικος
γιατι δεν κρινομεθα εμεις με τα ιδια κριτηρια οπως οι αλλοι εταιροι...
Εν πασει περιπτωσει, αυτο που θελω να τονισω ειναι οτι υπαρχουν καποιοες
ανησυχιες οσον αφορα τον γαμο, την σημαια, τα θρησκευτικα... Γιατι δεν
βγαινει η κυβερνηση να μας πει τι σκοπευει να κανει, οπως την εχουν καλεσει
και οι ιδιοι οι βουλευτες της ; Δεν μπορει να μας δωσει μια απαντηση ευθεια;
Γιατι μας υποτιμα και δεν μας σεβεται ετσι;
Αυτες λοιπον οι αποκρυπτικες τακτικες με κανουν να ανησυχω και να μην εχω
εμπιστοσυνη στην κυβερνηση και να μην ειμαι και τοσο σιγουρος για την
σημαια...
> Telos pantwn.... :-)
>
> Ma den einai sobares autes oi kindynologies. Edw o kosmos kaigetai
> ki orismenoi asxolountai me kati kwloxarta, kai me to endexomeno
> na alla3oun kapoia... istorika karabopana.... mmm gkouxou gkoux...
Οχι και καραβοπανο η σημαια η ποτισμενη με το αιμα του παππου μου... λιγο
προσοχη ε;
> Idou pantws ena tragoudi techno epi tou teleutaiou endexomenou:
> (aplousteuthke twra kai to URL):
>
> http://www.geocities.com/omadeon/#CHRISTODOULOS
>
Καλοοοο.... ;)
omadeon
"k0mis" <x...@x.com> wrote:
> > Ma den einai sobares autes oi kindynologies. Edw o kosmos kaigetai
> > ki orismenoi asxolountai me kati kwloxarta, kai me to endexomeno
> > na alla3oun kapoia... istorika karabopana.... mmm gkouxou gkoux...
>
> Οχι και καραβοπανο η σημαια η ποτισμενη με το αιμα του παππου μου...
λιγο
> προσοχη ε;
Μα ακριβώς γι'αυτό επειδή είπα να τσιγκλήσω λίγο την
περηφάνεια του δικού μου παππού ο αθεόφοβος μούριξε
ένα.... σύννεφο απο καπνούς και πνίγηκα στο βήχα.
"Βρε παλιόπαιδο, καραβόπανο λες τη σημαία μας ρε;"
μού είπε...
"Γιατί ρε παππού, κακό είναι το καραβόπανο; Μια
χαρά ανθεκτικό πανί είναι. Εδώ και τα μπλού τζην
είναι φτιαγμένα απο ένα είδος καραβόπανου".
"Μπλού τζήν!! Δάγκωσε τη γλώσσα σου αμερικανάκι!"
"Ρε παππού, μα τι άλλο ύφασμα να βάλουμε στη σημαία μας"
Ο παππούς κοίταξε την οθόνη του, τράβηξε άλλη μια ρουφηξιά
απο το (λαθραίο) πούρο Αβάνας του και μουρμούρισε:
"Εικονικό, σαν τη μούρη σου, πανηλίθιε εγγονέ"
(Η συνέχεια στο επόμενο δωρεάν & χύμα επεισόδιο).
Omadeon
Hellenic Electronic Music
http://omadeon.iuma.com
http://www.mp3.com/omadeon/#CHRISTODOULOS
k0mis
ji...@my-deja.com
eisitiria einai alithia. To oti den ta eixe parei ola i nea dimokratia
na sou pw den eimai sigoyros se pio vathmo isxyei. Kapoios mou to eixe
pei kai malista neodimokraths. Entaksei mporei na pistepsa malakies
alla to oysiwdes epixhrima moy itan oti i eikona twn gkalop den allakse
stis ekloges poy simainei oti ola ta leyta poy kswdepsan kai ta dyo
kwmata gia na metakinisoyn psifoforoys phgan sta skoypidia. H stin
tsepi twn foititwn. Pali kala...
Dimitris
In article <34djms8u75ofgfjcs...@4ax.com>,
Asteras Amaliadas <aster...@VEmarxist.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:00:19 +0100, "k0mis" <a...@an.an> wrote:
>
> >>Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin
tis
> >>ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea
Dimokratia.
> >>Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
> >
> >Ki egw pou h8ela na katebw apo Glaskwbh gia A8hna den brhka tipota,
> >apenantias ola ta paidia edw ta tw PASOK proskeimena htane
katw... :) Mh les
> >tipota... Exw kales phges pou fanerwnoun arista to posous efere to
PASOK...
> >Asygkrita megalyteros ari8mos apo thn ND...
>
ji...@my-deja.com
"k0mis" <a...@an.an> wrote:
>
> >O Kokallis tha xtisei ypodromo? Ma afou aftos den einai ergolavos.
>
> Sorry, nai to 3exasa... Praktoras ths Stazi htane... :)
> Ti les re megale, eisai sobaros....? O Kokkalhs epixeirhmatias einai o
> an8rwpos, ton empodizei kaneis apo th mia mera sthn allh na mazepsei
50
> politikous mhxanikous ap'aytous pou psofane gia douleia kai na
ftia3ei mia
> etairia? H mpizna einai mpizna file, mhn to 3exnas.
>
> Kati
> >allo tha ennoeis. Alla ayto poy les den mporeis na to apodhkseis.
>
> Diabase tis efhmerides (ki oxi mono ta NEA kai to BHMA).
>
Oxi nea den diabazw (spania). Bhma kai Kathimerini diabazw. Kamia fora
kai Eleytherotypia. Aytes oxi toso gia tin politiki toys kateythynsi
alla gia to epipedo toys. An kai i Eleytherotypia paizei poysties poy
kai poy.
> Les
> >lekseis opws 'pasifanes', 'gegonos' klp alla ayta poy anafereis einai
> >fimes apo ton adesmeyto typo... Eisai toso eypistos tote einai bebaio
> >oti tha gineis o mister kaxypoptos.
>
> Psit... Eimai hdh kaxypoptos, ayto einai fysiko, afou blepw ti xontra
> paixnidia paizontai, afou blepw tous hli8ious xeirismous twn e3wterikn
> 8ematwn... To teleiws koufo 8a htan na tous empisteyomoun, alla blepw
oti
> esy tous empisteyesai, gi'ayto as mhn pw tipota...
>
H kaxypopsia einai apolytws dikaiolgimeni alla se teliki analysi
paralogi. Afinw se sena na peis ti katalaves ap ayto.
> Otan o kathe gyftos amorfotos
> >dimosiografos pou exei idiotelh symferonta soy pasarei kati kai sy to
> >trws tote, ftaneis sto simeio na zeis sto fantasioplikto kosmo soy,
> >gemato synomosies kai skandala. Den lew oti den ginontai pousties,
ayto
> >einai bebaio, alla simasia exei i oliki eikona kai kyriws kata poso
> >yparxei beltiwsi me to parelthon. Kai nomizw oti me ayti tin
kybernish
> >(Simiti kai oxi genika PASOK), yparxei.
>
> Ti beltiwsh, plaka mas kaneis? Edw peiname re... eimaste oi
ftwxoteroi ths
> Eyrwphs... 40% apo emas oute diakopes den 8a pane fetos... Wraia,
mphkame
> sthn EE, eides esy kanena polith na ginetai pio eyporos kai na eymerei
> perissotero?
Oloi oi agrotes. Episis to metro tis athinas? To aerodromio twn spatwn?
H egnantia odos? O plithorismos 2-3% ? To eleima poy mikrenei? Bebaia
edw na pw oti thewrw katorthoma poy mia kybernisi stin ellada aksipoiei
ta kondylia poy mas deinoyn. Oi alles oyte ayto den kanane... H Ellada
einai metaksy allwn kratos xwris vathos organwsis kai tha synexisoyme
na trwme sfaliares mexri na organwthoume poy tha parei polla xronia. H
endiamesi grinia einai peritti.
> (Ektos twn "e3ygxronistwn", fysika)... H pragmatikh sygklish
> apexei POLLA xronia kai den 3erw an exoume ta fonta ws oikonomia na
> ante3oume... Den yparxei biomhxania, den yparxoun yphresies den
yparxei
> tipota... Poios 8a sthrh3ei thn oikonomia? Ta lefta tou laou
teleiwsane,
> pane.. Den exoume oute na plhrwsoume tous forous pia...
Re sy ta exeis mperdepsei. Ti viomhxania o Simitis tha tin ftiaksei? To
problhma einai sto lao oxi stin kybernish! Enas mono paragei
texnologia, o Kokallis kai epidh ton eynooyn, oloi oi asxetoi pane na
ton fane... Den kserw giati ton eynooyn alla egw an hmoyn kybernhsh,
tha toy elega parta ola, giati einai o monos poy paragei tsip stin
Ellada. Ena loyloydaki stin erimo. An den to stirikseis den to pothseis
den toy baleis kamia verga tha kserathei. To onoma Kokallis moy einai
entelws adiaforo. Ta tsip me endiaferoyn...
> H beltiwsh antikatoptrizetai sto biwtiko epipedo tou laou, to opoio
exei
> pesei poly ta teleytaia xronia...
Ma les astirikta pragmata. To katakefalin eisodhma exei ayksithei
katakoryfa. Kai ws synithws mazi me ayto ayksithike kai i anergia. To
teleytaio einai to idio pantoy ston kosmo. Anaptyksi=anargia h meriki
apasxolhsh. Alla ayto pou eipes esy se poia stoixeia to sthrizeis?
> Gia na mhn pw twra gia ta e8nika 8emata... Beltiwsh=GIOK...
>
> >Hmmm nai kai gw poy hthela na tajidepsw gia Athina apo Londino prin
tis
> >ekloges den eixe eisitiria giati ta eixe klhsei OLA i Nea Dimokratia.
> >Ksereis poso kanei ena tetoio eisitirio? Kai gia posa milame.
>
> Ki egw pou h8ela na katebw apo Glaskwbh gia A8hna den brhka tipota,
> apenantias ola ta paidia edw ta tw PASOK proskeimena htane katw... :)
Mh les
> tipota... Exw kales phges pou fanerwnoun arista to posous efere to
PASOK...
> Asygkrita megalyteros ari8mos apo thn ND...
>
> >Gegonos einai oti to apotelesma twn eklogwn itan oti legan ola ta
> >gkalop, synepws papse na fantasiwnesai nothies.
>
> Den tis fantasiw8hka, einai pragmatikothta... Epeidh den se symferei
omws,
> htane fantasiwseis... As einai... O pateras mou mou leei psemata, enw
esy
> mou les thn alh8eia... :)) Nai, pws...
>
To ousiwdes epixeirima itan oti i eikona twn gkalop den allakse ara oti
ekanan ta kwmata pros wfelos toys htan xwris apotelesma. Ta eisitiria
(poy mporei na eixa lathos pliroforisi) ta anefera gia na soy dhksw oti
kai ta dyo kwmata ekanan oti mporoysan gia na epireasoyn to apotelesma
pros ofelos toys. Opws eides den arnithika ayto pou eipes esy gia
dwrodokia. Aplws i pragmatikotita einai oti oi poysties itan analogika
ises gi ayto kai to apotelesma emeine akinito. Krinw ek toy
apotelesmatos an katalaves. Den kanw ypotheseis.
> H pragmatikotita einai
> >oti i Nea Dimokratia epapse na ekproswpei kapia yparkti tasi stin
> >koinwnia gi ayto den prokeitai pote na ksanavgei. An deis tis taseis
> >tha deis oti to PASOK kalyptei sxedwn eks olokliroy (70-80%) to meseo
> >xwro. H Nea Dimokratia exei ginei ena sxedon akrodeksio kwma. Se
> >prosfato gkalop sto Vima nomizw (an thes to exw kapoy na soy pw poy
> >einai) oi psifoforoi tis Neas Dimokratias apanthsan se pososto
peripoy
> >70% oti me klimaka 0-10 (0=kentro) thewroyn ton eayto toys 7 deksia
enw
> >allo ena 20% eipe 8. Ayto simenei syriknwsi kai mi nomizeis oti egw
> >eimai pasoktzis, den exw psifisei pasok oyte mia fora. enw ND exw
> >psifisei 3 fores...
>
> Ela re megale... Kai to PASOK dhladh einai kentroaristera? De mas
xez..s lew
> egw...
Egw ti ftaiw? Ayto apantisan oi psifoforoi twn kwmatwn. Ektws an
amfisviteis to gkalop (den nomizw).
> H pragmatikothta einai oti h ND antiproswpeyei olous aytous pou exoun
> ta matia anoixta kai den pisteyoun thn 8riambologia, alla thn
> pragmatikothta... H pragmatikothta einai oti h ND antiproswpeyse olous
> autous pou den anexontia pia thn koroidia... Mexri kai aristeroi
filoi phgan
Twra epixeirimatologeis san politikos apo Ellinikes tainies. Oloi oi
mikorpolitikoi etsi lene prin tis ekloges (gia opoiodhpote kybernisi)...
> kai pshfisan ND... Oxi epeidh h ND einai h kalyterh, alla epeidh
> aganakthsan
> pia me to PASOK...
> H ND den einai to komma pou 8a swsei thn Ellada, ayth th stigmh
tetoio komma
> den yparxei... Pantws apo to PASOK, 1000 fores protimoterh...
>
Ti na se pw...
> >Kala pios eipe tetoio pragma? Tha papseis na ypotheteis apopseis
dikies
> >moy poy pote den eipa? Exeis sximatisei mia eikona gia to ti
ekproswpw
> >poy se diabebaiw apexei ap tin pragmatikotita... Alla ante na
apodeiksw
> >se sena oti den eimai Elefantas.
>
> Apanthse se parakalw sthn ousia... Einai ontws leptomereies oles
aytes oi
> e8nikes tapeinwseis pou sou eipa?
E afoy apantisa parakatw...
> Den dinoun enaysma sthn Tourkia gia
> megalyteres diekdhkhseis?? Den dinoun se kanena thn entypwsh oti h
Ellada
> einai mia xwra pou thn kanoun oti 8eloun?
>
Nai giati einai alhtheia. To thema einai oti gia anatrapei ayto den
thelei allagh kybernhsis, thelei doyleia ap oloys gia na ginei i Ellada
pio dynati. Kai tote pali tha einai amfivolo an tha kataferoyme tipota
giati oi pithanotites einai eis baros mas. Alla einai xreos mas na
propathisoume.
> >Ayto poy les einai paralogo. Dhladh an se pei kapoios elefanta, esy
> >prepei na apodikseis oti den eisai? Profanws aytos poy isxyrizetai
kati
> >prepei na paroysiasei koiws apodekta stoixeia gia na stiriksei ton
> >isxyrismo toy. Kai sy den to exeis kanei mexri twra.
> >Les 'marionetes','poylimenoi', klp klp alla ayta poy paroysiazeis ws
> >stoixeia kata ti gnwmi moy den stekoyn gia toys logoys poy eksigisa.
>
> Xese mas twra, oxi kai na mas peis oti ola ayta, ta imia, oi s300, o
> otsalan, eginan gia to symferon ths Elladas... Mh me tsantizeis,
diabase ta
> logia sou kai parade3ou oti les malakies... O kalyteros symmaxos mas
htane
> to Kourdistan kai tous prodwsame, mh mou les oti htane gia to
symferon mas.
Ola ayta synevisan gia na apofygoyme ta xeirwtera. Ayto kata mia ennoia
einai to symferon mas.
>
> >Bebai edw na pw oti kai otan itan kybernish Mitsotaki ta pasokia ta
> >idia legane gia ayton, alla egw kai tote elega oti lew twra gia to
> >Simiti. Kai edw einai i diafora megale. Oti den tropoiw aposi me vasi
> >to an psifisa afton poy kyberna. Prospathw na dw an kanei to
kallitero
> >dynato me vasi tin katastasi poy parelabe. Kai na sou pw, diaxwrizw
tin
> >Kybernisis Simiti apo alles kyberniseis PASOK kai tin epomeni fora
isws
> >kai na ton psifisw. To mono provlima me ton Simiti einai to PASOK...
>
> To mono problhma me to Shmith einai o Shmiths :) Ase mas re megale...
Edw o
> an8rwpos alla leei kai alla kanei, ayto einai hliou faeinotero. H
politikh
> tou den exei bash kai einai epizhmia gia th xwra, sou exw pei polles
fores
> posa kaka mas exei kanei..
Ma to provlhma einai oti ayto poy vlepw egw anapofeykto esy to vlepeis
ws praksi enantiwn mas. Tin Ellada twn 10 ekatomyriwn kai tis dedomenes
enoples dynameis, den tis eftiakse o Simitis. Aytos tis parelave. Kai
prospathei na kanei ayto poy akrivws nomizw oti xreiazetai. Na
organwsei to kratos. Kai ayto xreiazetai afanh doyleia poy fernei
apotelesma polla xronia argotera.
> Pes mou twra ki esy ta kala...
> An htane aplos synadelfos sou, oute na ton ftyseis den 8a
dexosouna... Twra
> 8es na tou empisteyteis kai thn poreia ths Xwras? Eftase o
e3ygxronismos na
> shmainei "koitame thn tseph mas"... Sygnwmh, alla den einai ayth
poreia gia
> to kalo ths patridas...
>
> >Nai giati einai se kathari thesi isxyws... Exei 400 F-16, 800 000
> >xiliades strato, klp, klp. A kai ti stiriksi twn USA. Oi teleytaioi
den
> >theloyn epoydenh h Toyrkia na apostatheropoihthei gia gnwstoys
> >geopolitikoys logoys.
>
> Nai kai ta Skopia exoune 1 elikoptero kai 4 tzip, kai koita ti
kataferane...
Ti kataferane? Ayto poy zhtame einai dyskwlo na to kataferoyme akomi
kai an ypirxe mono enas Skopianos. Den einai thema isxyws. Einai thema
gaidoyrinoy peismatos. Allwste mono ayto kai to onoma toys exei
apomhnei.
> Mhn les oti 8es pali... O Dabid nikhse to Golia8,
Pompologies... Ayti einai i parigorgia toy apelpismenou. Emeis den
eimaste apelpismenoi. Exoyme polla erismata. Aplws den exoyme ayta tha
thelame na exoyme. Prepei na peksoyme me ayta poy exoyme wste na ta
ayksisoyme.
> kai h Ellada mporei na
> nikhsei thn Tourkia arkei na yparxoun antres me myalo kai kotsia kai
> propantwn agaph gia thn Ellada sthn e3ousia... Ayth h httopa8eia 8a
mas
> faei...
Pia ittopatheia? Egw aplws parathetw tas gnvseis moy.
>
> Opote toys symperiferontai kata to anekdwto, o
> >giatros moy eipe na soy lew panta nai! Oti poystia kai na kanoyn, oi
> >Amerikanoi tha kanoyn to koroido giati me ena tsak kai i Toyrkia tha
> >ginei mylos. Gi ayto toys poylane opla mpir para, elikoptera, tanks,
> >systimata parakwloythisis, mexri kai ergostasio gia F-16 toys
> >ftiaksane, mpas kai toys teleiwsoyne ta aeroplana. Kai fysika ola
ayta
> >gia na epitiroyn kyriws to eswteriko kai toys Kourdoys alla kai ta
> >anatolika kyriws sunora toys.
>
> To anekdoto den to 3erw, pesto mou giati mou aresoune poly ta
anekdota...
Einai palio kai anoysio. Aplws teriazei stin periptwsi.
> Oson afora to ergostasio, an h Ellada eixe swsth politikh 8a eixe
agorasei
> 80 F16 ki oxi 40 kai 40 M2000, 8a eixei problepsei thn anagkh
mellontikhs
> agoras kai me to synolo twn 150 F16 pou exoume paraggeilei mexri
shmera 8a
> eixame apaithsei na exoume ftia3ei kai diko mas ergostasio.
Arxidia mple. Afoy to ergostasio toys to ftiaksane gia politikoys
logoys poy den isxyoun gia mas.
> Alla oxi, afou
> den exoume e8nikh politikh kai e8niko sxediasmo, trixes katsares...
Na dw
> twra ti 8a ginei me ta EF2000... As elpisoume oti den 8a epanalhf8oun
ta
> la8h tou parel8ontos...
> H Ellada exei polla myala idiws sto xwro ths aeronayphgikhs 8a
mporousame na
> eimaste oi kalyteroi ths Mesogeiou... Mia seira omws lan8asmenwn
xeirismwn
> apo to PASOK oxi aplws ka8ysterhse, alla exei anabalei ep'aoriston thn
> ypar3h sobarhs (aeronayphghkhs) biomhxanias sthn Ellada...
>
Den apokleietai
> Omws tipota den empodizei toys Toyrkoys
> >na xrisimopoioyn ta opla ayta kai sta dytika toys synora. Min ksexnas
> >oti o Toyrkikos Stratos, i toylaxiston megalo tmima toy einai
maximos,
> >diladi exei symetasxei se pragmatikes maxes (peripoy) sta vouna toy
> >Koyrdistan. Emeis apo tin allh eimaste tragikoi lapades, poy an ginei
> >tipota tha skorpisoyme san tis panikovlites kotes. Den kserw an exeis
> >paei strato... To 40 me toys Italoys kai toys Germanoys eixame ena
> >kataponimeno strato poy omws eixe gamithei stoys polemoys. Apo
> >balkanikoys mexri mikra asia. Twra oi frapedomagkes nomizeis oti
exoyn
> >kamia sxesi? Tha paroyme ta arxidia mas kai tha psaxnoyme na vroyme
> >pios ftaiei... H parametros poy leipei apo to skeptiko soy einai o
> >orthologismos. H kardia kai to ithiko einai poly vasika, alla oso
> >megala kai na einai, pairneis t'arxidia soy an den eisai kai
> >orthologistis. Paradhgma i mikrasiatiki katastrofi kai oi eksegerseis
> >kata twn Toyrkwn prin toys balkanikoys polemoys. Palia ponemeni
> >istoria...
>
> Symfwnw. Omws kai to 99% tou amerikanikou stratou den exei dei
polemikh
> drash, omws skisane tous Irakinous pou polemousane to Iran xronia kai
> xronia... Blepeis ekei yparxei swsth ekpaideysh, organwsh kai dogma...
Hmmm kai aeroplanofora, kai 800 F16 kai Stealth kai pyravloi. Twra
sygkrineis to strato twn USA me ton Elliniko? Afoy aftoi prin steiloun
toys stratiwtes toys, metatrepoyn ti xwra se kratira. H kanw lathos?
> Sthn
> Ellada, dystyxws, de ma8ainoume pote...
> Pou einai loipon h politeia na ftia3ei ena swsto strato me ena swsto
> dogma?
Poia einai ayta? Min ksexnas oti to dogma exei kathoristei me vasei tis
oikonomikes dynatotites kai me vasei ton plythismo tis Elladas. Kai oxi
apo to PASOK. Proteine esy ena allo dogma, poy na stekei omws...
Nai
Oxi aparraithta. Kai sigoyra oxi braxyprothesmi.
> alla ayth th lysh dystyxws den blepw kanena na thn
> psaxnei... H e3wterikh mas politikh einai teleiws erasitexnikh... Ayto
> prepei na paradexteis oti einai alh8eia... Gia na swsoume loipon to
kwlaraki
> mas, de mas ftanei mono mia EE, alla prepei na kounh8oume kai apo
monoi mas.
Swstos
> Xesthke ki h EE gia to diko mas symferon...
E oxi akrivws. Alla peripoy isws.
> Gia na mhn liwsoume loipon katw
> apo th mygoskotwstra, as ginei epitelous mia swsth xara3h e8nikhs
politikhs,
> apo ypey8yna atoma ki oxi apo erasitexnes pou den blepoun pera apo ta
4
> xronia ths masas....
>
Den einai i masa. Einai to vathos organwsis. Einai synithes provlima
ypanaptiktwn xwrwn. An prosekseis oles oi kratoyses xwres poy synhtws
einai kai eneptygmenes exoyn ypiresies poy den allazoyn apo kyvernhsh
se kybernish. Oi politikoi kanoyn ti doyleia toys alla to sxediasmo se
vathos xronoy ton kanoyn epistimones. Emeis toys epistimones toys leme
texnokrates kai toys xezoyme. Epeidh eimaste Zulu. Gi ayto!
> >Katarxas an epithethoyme stin dytiki |Thraki, st' arxidia toys an
> >paroyn 3 nisia. Prepei na xtyphsoyme thn Kwnstantinoypoli me 12
> >ekatomyria memetia. Pio polloi apo ton plythismo tis Elladas! Otan
> >hmoyn sto naytiko oloi oi malakes oi ypaksiomatikoi poy fysika itan
> >kseroles elegan gia tis merarxies sti thraki poy tha kanoyn ti dytiki
> >thraki 'cabrio' kai tha xtypisoyn tin Poli klp,klp. Otan omws mhloysa
> >me anwteroys aksiomatikoys i eikwna itan akrivws antitheti. Kai einai
> >profanes oti oi mikroi zoyn se agnoia ws synithws. Aytoi poy kseroyn
> >alla lene. Ki ayta poy lene einai symbata me ayta poy pathenoyme.
> >Thymase tis parenoxliseis sto C-130 toy Tsoxantzopoyloy poy
epitiroyse
> >to amyntiko dogma? Rentikwlo twn skyliwn giname kai meta klegomaste
sto
> >NATO kai stin EU giati mas kanene da. Afoy eimaste Don Koixotides kai
> >den frontizoyme prwta na organothoyme prin poylisoyme tsampouka
> >pairnoyme fysika t'arxidia mas.
>
> Den 8a mporousa na symfwnhsw perissotero... Eytyxws parathrw oti
blepeis kai
> ta straba tou Shmith kai ths pareas tou... Swsta?
Prospathw na skeytomai aneksartita apo politika i thriskeytika dogmata.
Eisai sigoyros?
>
> >O Pagkalos paretithike. E oxi kai oli i kybernisi re megale. Epidh
thes
> >na bgei i Nea dimokratia twra, prepei na paretithei to PASOK? The na
> >kediseis me penalti? Vale gkwl kanonika kai kerdise.
>
> Psit... esy ti 8a ekanes..? Den 8a ntreposoun kai o idios? Esy ton
ebales
> sth 8esh tou ton Pagkalo, esy den 8a eixes kammia ey8ynh??? Tsipa
GIOK file,
> tsipa giok...
Egw nomizw oti o Pagkalos einai to kat eksoxin atomo poy hthele na
glytwsei ton Otsalan. Afoy ton ksereis twra. Alla ton tsampoyka toy ton
valane ston kwlo (ws synhthws). Gi ayto anagkastike na paretithei. Alla
an paraitoytan i kyvernhsh ektws apo to oti tha itan ypervoliko, oi
toyrkikes efimerides tha egrafan oti h MIT rixnei kai kyberniseis stin
Ellada.
>
> >Den exw katalavei oti o Simitis exei idioteleis skopoys... Tin
> >antitheti entypwsi moy dinei. Kai exw empistosyni sto kritirio moy
> >giati otan vlepw kapoion stin tileorasi na mhlaei, apo to styl toy,
kai
> >to eidos twn epixeirimatwn toy ton 'kobw' an einai poustrakos i atomo
> >me aisthisi eythynhs.
>
> Lol... kai poios trwei olon ayto ton kairo, egw ki esy? Poios einai
aytos
> pou alla leei kai alla kanei.. :))))
Egw den vlepw genika kati tetoio. Se orismenes leptomeries exeis dikio.
Kaneis ena lathos. An kaneis thelei na bgalei lefta den ginetai
prothypoyrgos. Akoma kai ena mesaio stelexos polyethinikis vgazei pio
polla. Aytoi pou ontws koitane tin tsepi toys einai oi mikromesaioi
politikoi. Giati einai anikanoi na vgaloyn leyta me fysiologikoys
tropoys. Kata ti gnvmi moy oi perissoteroi politikoi me ycilo profil
einai peripoy entimoi ektws ap ton malakandrea.
> Mporeis na exeis osh empistosynh 8eleis
> ston eayto sou alla mhn 3exnas oti den eisai alan8astos...
Fysika!
> Oson afora to
> styl tou Shmith, o an8rwpos oute na milhsei swsta den h3ere re sy...
>
Afoy ksereis ti ennww giati me vasanizeis?
> P.X. poystrakoi: Karatzaferis, o malakas o
> >ypourgos georgias pws ton lene, Tsovolas, karaminas, kati knites styl
> >Skylakoy klp klp. Ypeythinoi: Simitis, Vasw, Girgakis, Laliwtis(etsi
ki
> >etsi), Papadhmos, Karamanlis, Varvitsotis (an kai trompas),
> >Mpakogianni, Avramopoylos (hmmm), Manos, Soyflias klp
> >Krinw apo to image, katalaves? Kai otan akoyw logia eis baros aytwn
> >poly dyskola ta pisteyw mexri na dw stoixeia kai na krinw.
>
> E, tote apo to image 8a eprepe na sou aresei kai o Xristodoulos,
einai ontws
> poly fwtogenhs... Ama krineis apo to image, prepei na sou pw oti to
krithrio
> sou einai gia gelia.. Den krinoume to biblio apo to e3wfyllo file...
Otan lew image ennwo to synolo twn stoixeiwn poy prosdiorizoyn
ton 'poystrako' kai ton mh poystrako.
> Ton
> 3ereis ton Papa8emelh? Einai poly pio morfwmenos, ypey8ynos kai
a3iologos
> apo olh thn kybernhsh ki aytous poy anafereis mazi, alla den ton eida
sth
> lista sou... Logw image, ypo8etw...
>
Ouxi! Yparxei kai triti katigoria. Twn empathwn. Aytwn pou exoyn emones
idees. Ayth i katigoria symperiferetai me vlabero tropo oxi apo
idioteles symferon, oyte epidei einai xazoi. Alla epidh vazoyn to
synaisthima panw apo ti logikh. Afhnoyn tis katavoles poy einai
syndedemenes me to synaisthima na kathodhgoyn tis apofaseis toys. Afth
i alloiwsi tis katharis aneksartitis skepsis apo to synaisthima
epiferei arnhtikes synepies. Gia tis sxeseis metaksy twn anthrwpon
einai kalo to synaisthima alla gia ekswteriki politiki prepei kaneis na
einai Germanos... Pagokolwna. Etsi pisteyw. Gi ayto thewrw atoma san
ton Papathemeli kai ton Xristodoylo engenws eilikrina alla tyflwmena
apo tis proswpikes katavoles.
> >Ma twra oi evraioi kai oi masonoi stin kybernisi ti sxesoi exoyn me
> >ayto? To gyrises twra sta skandinavika politistika xaraktiristika,
poy
> >kaneis den eipe oti prepei na yiothetisoyme. Ayto poy afora tin
> >kyvernisi toys, einai i organwsi toy kratoys, i eswtweriki kai
> >ekswteriki politikh, ta sxolia, ta panepistimia, i oikonomia, ta
> >geirokomia poy einai san ksenodoxeia polytelias klp. Ws pros ayta
einai
> >paradeigma pros mimisi. Ws pros ayta poy eipes oxi. Alla ta
politistika
> >xaraktiristika kaneis den mporei na ta epivalei oyte vlepw to logo na
> >allaksoyn. Oyte einai thema kybernhshs. Prepei na kanei kaneis
> >diaxwrismo toy ti thelei kai ti den thelei ayto einai to dyskolo. To
> >lathos toy adynamoy einai na isopedwnei ola kai na ta aporyptei ola.
> >Ayto symbenei giati to myalo toy den mporei na diakrinei ti einai
> >thetiko kai ti oxi. H sygxhysi odigi sthn anasfaleia kai thn arnhsh.
>
> A, ma blepeis twra oti pas kontra sta logia sou? Loipon afou to 60%
den
> 8elei na alla3ei ta politismika tou xarakthristika, 8a tou ta alla3ei
o
> Shmiths swnei kai kala? Den einai isopedwtikh kai aporriptikh h
politikh tou
> Shmith pou oute na syzhthsei den dexetai?
To thema twn taytotitwn den apotelei allagi politistikwn
xaraktiristikwn. Synelthe.
>
> >Opa, hrwiki eksodos. Egw eipa tetoio pragma? Ma prospatheis na
> >katalaveis ti lew? Katalave kai diafwnise alla mi moy les oti
ekproswpw
> >pragmata poy den ekproswpw.
> >
>
> E tote otan les oti oi Ollandoi einai paradeigma pros mimhsh, na
> dieykrinizeis ti les.
>
> >Ayto poy soy eipa einai fainomenika nomimo. Giati to kratos
> >anagrafontas to thriskeyma toy dinei ti dynatotita *xwris na to pei*
na
> >praksei eis varos mou, dia tis prosvolis kai tis parenoxlisis sto
> >vathmo poy mporei na to dikeologisei. Ayto poy les esy, dhladh na me
> >rwthsei to thriskeyma, afenws tha dhksie oti einai karagiozhs kai
> >afetairoy einai katafanhs paratypia. Kai mporw na toy traviksw mia
> >mynhsh poy tha einai oli diki toy. Exei terastia diafora h mia
> >katastasi ap tin alli.
>
> 8a tou klaseis ta 3 tou astynomikou pou 8a se rwthsei... Sygnwmh alla
den
> einai etsi opws ta les ta pragmata. Giati efoson h astynomia einai
klika den
> nomizw oti exeis kai polles pi8anothtes na petyxei h mhnysh sou...
Pistepse
> me... den exeis kammia pi8anothta. Xwria pou mporei na se spasoune
kai sto
> 3ylo.
Amfivalw gi ayto.
> Pes oti den anagrafetai to 8rhskeyma. Na deis pou kai h Ekklhsia 8a
bgalei
> aytokollhtakia XO pou 8a ta bazoune sthn taytothta. Ayto einai
dedomeno. Ti
> 8a ginei tote?
Tipota aplws i ekklisia tha emfanistei ws karagiozis. Pragma poy tha
itan lypiro. Parepiptontow egw den eimai enantiwn tis ekklisias...
Eimai enantiwn toy skeloys tis poy epithymei na patronarei ti skepsi
moy. Alla ayto einai alli koybenta.
Prosexe ti les giati mporei na to diabasei kaneis... Allakses toys
kanones toy paixnidioy omws. Egw se rwthsa se mia taytotita neoy typou
opoy tha anagrafetai proeretika to thriskeyma alla tipota allo, ektws
apo onoma kai imerominia gennisews, esy ti symperasma tha ebgazes? Den
se rwtisa ti symperasma tha evgazes an diethetes vasi dedomenwn pou na
leie kai ti swvrako foraw. Ayto einai allo thema. Kai stin Agglia poy
exeis zhsei tha ksereis oti einai adianoito mia etairia na exei sti
diathesi tis ta stoixeia poy anafereis. Giati o nomos leitoyrgei
(peripoy).
> Na pernas kala,
> Antreas.
>
Kai sy
k0mis
> kai Eleytherotypia. Aytes oxi toso gia tin politiki toys kateythynsi
> alla gia to epipedo toys. An kai i Eleytherotypia paizei poysties poy
> kai poy.
Καλα τωρα, οσον αφορα τη σοβαροτητα του Βηματος, κι εγω το θεωρουσα καποτε
σοβαρη εφημεριδα, αλλα διαβαζοντας τις <<αμυντικές αναλυσεις>> και την
γλυψολογια του τελευταιου καιρου προς την κυβερνηση, εχω χασει καθε
σεβασμο... Η Καθημερινη διατηρει σε καποιο επιπεδο τη σοβαροτητα της, αλλα
κι αυτη κινειται αναλογως με το εκαστοτε συμφερον... Οσον αφορα την
Ελευθεροτυπια... Τουλαχιστον ειναι ειλικρινης με τους αναγνωστες της, ξερεις
τι αγοραζεις.
> H kaxypopsia einai apolytws dikaiolgimeni alla se teliki analysi
> paralogi. Afinw se sena na peis ti katalaves ap ayto.
Αν διαβασεις τα λογια σου θα παρατηρησεις οτι αντιλεγεις. Πως μπορει κατι
τελειως δικαιολογημενο να ειναι παραλογο, εφ' όσον μπορει να αιτιολογηθει
πληρως;
Εκτος αν γραφεις σε καποιο επιπεδο περα απο την δικη μου διανοητικη
ικανοτητα, οποτε θα σου ζητουσα να μου δωσεις εξηγησεις για το τι εννοεις.
Επι της ουσιας, η καχυποψια ειναι φυσιολογικη αντιδραση απορρεια του
ενστικτου επιβιωσης του καθε οργανισμου. Πολυ περισσοτερο οταν ο οργανισμος
αυτος εχει υποστει κακες εμπειριες σε παρομοιες περιστασεις.
> Oloi oi agrotes. Episis to metro tis athinas? To aerodromio twn spatwn?
> H egnantia odos? O plithorismos 2-3% ? To eleima poy mikrenei? Bebaia
> edw na pw oti thewrw katorthoma poy mia kybernisi stin ellada aksipoiei
> ta kondylia poy mas deinoyn. Oi alles oyte ayto den kanane... H Ellada
> einai metaksy allwn kratos xwris vathos organwsis kai tha synexisoyme
> na trwme sfaliares mexri na organwthoume poy tha parei polla xronia. H
> endiamesi grinia einai peritti.
Χαχαχα, επαναλαμβανω, χαχαχα. Ποσους αγροτες ξερεις; Εγω τυχαινει να εχω
κατι κουμπαριες απο τον πατερα μου στη Λακκοπετρα Αχαϊας, χωριο παραδοσιακα
πατατοπαραγωγικο. Μαλλον προς χρεωκοπια πανε οι ανθρωποι, πανε πια τα
εκατομυρια που παιζανε παλια στα ζαρια ετσι για την πλακα τους...
Επισης-
Το μετρο της Αθηνας επρεπε να εχει τελειωσει εδω και χρονια.
Το αεροδρομιο των Σπατων, ποιο αυτο που χρειαστηκαν 28 χρονια για να αρχισει
(πρωτη μελετη το 1969) και 10 χρονια για να αρχισουν τα εργα; Αυτο που
απαιτουνται 14 τουλαχιστον μεγαλα οδικα εργα για την προσβαση ως το
Σεπτεμβριο του 2001, και περσι τετοια εποχη δεν ειχε εκπονηθει ουτε καν ενα
σχεδιο; Αυτο που η Ολυμπιακη θα μεινει απ'εξω;
Η Εγνατια οδος που πριν απο τις εκλογες ηταν <<ετοιμη>>; Ο γειτονας μου εδω
ξερεις τι δουλεια κανει; Ειναι Ελληνας καθηγητης πολ. μηχανικος στο
πανεπιστημιο της Γλασκωβης, και τεχνικος συμβουλος επι 14 μηνες τωρα στην
Εγνατια, το ξερεις οτι ουτε στα μισα δεν ειναι το εργο;
Ο πληθωρισμος 2-3%; Ναι, εφοσον δεν υπαρχει χρημα στην αγορα (τα φαγανε
στους φορους), τι πληθωρισμος θελεις να υπαρχει; Πληθωρισμο εχουμε οταν το
διαθεσιμο ρευστο στη αγορα ειναι περισσοτερο απο την ζητηση για ρευστο.
Ρευστο δεν υπαρχει, το εφαγε η εφορια, αρα τελος πληθωρισμος...
Καλα οσον αφορα την απορροφητικοτητα, και το γεγονος μονο οτι μιλαμε για
απορροφητικοτητα θα επρεπε να σε βαζει σε σκεψεις.
Οσον αφορα την οργανωση, εχεις δικιο.
> Re sy ta exeis mperdepsei. Ti viomhxania o Simitis tha tin ftiaksei? To
> problhma einai sto lao oxi stin kybernish! Enas mono paragei
> texnologia, o Kokallis kai epidh ton eynooyn, oloi oi asxetoi pane na
> ton fane... Den kserw giati ton eynooyn alla egw an hmoyn kybernhsh,
> tha toy elega parta ola, giati einai o monos poy paragei tsip stin
> Ellada. Ena loyloydaki stin erimo. An den to stirikseis den to pothseis
> den toy baleis kamia verga tha kserathei. To onoma Kokallis moy einai
> entelws adiaforo. Ta tsip me endiaferoyn...
Οχι, δεν θα την φτιαξει ο Σημιτης, αλλα θα την υποστηριξει και θα δωσει τις
βασεις και τις ευκαιριες να δημιουργηθουν, πχ. μεσω των εξοπλισμων.
Δεν ηταν ενας μονο που παρηγαγε τεχνολογια σητν Ελλαδα, ηταν πολλοι, αλλα
αυτοι δεν ειναι μπλεγμενοι τοσο στα πολιτικα παιχνιδια οποτε δεν κονομανε...
Μπραβο στην Ιντρακομ και στα παιδια που δουλευουν κι εκει, αλλα δεν πρεπει
να ειναι τα μονα λουλουδακια. Πρεπει ο καλος κηπουρος, η κυβερνηση, να
φυτεψει κι αλλα...
> Ma les astirikta pragmata. To katakefalin eisodhma exei ayksithei
> katakoryfa. Kai ws synithws mazi me ayto ayksithike kai i anergia. To
> teleytaio einai to idio pantoy ston kosmo. Anaptyksi=anargia h meriki
> apasxolhsh. Alla ayto pou eipes esy se poia stoixeia to sthrizeis?
Εχουμε την μικροτερη αγοραστικη δυναμη απο ολους τους Ευρωπαιους, το γραψαν
κι οι εφημεριδες. Οι τιμες εχουν φτασει στα επιπεδα της Αγγλιας, ενω οι
μισθοι εχουν παραμεινει στασιμοι. Ειναι κι αυτος ενας λογος που παρατηρειται
αυξηση των λαδωματων και των μιζων, των προωρων εκπτωσεων (αρχιζουμε τωρα
απο τον Ιουλιο, ειδες;), της ανεργιας κτλ κτλ... Ειναι αυτη βελτιωση του
βιοτικου επιπεδου;
> > Gia na mhn pw twra gia ta e8nika 8emata... Beltiwsh=GIOK...
Εδω με εγραψες, δεν μου απαντησες...
> To ousiwdes epixeirima itan oti i eikona twn gkalop den allakse ara oti
> ekanan ta kwmata pros wfelos toys htan xwris apotelesma. Ta eisitiria
> (poy mporei na eixa lathos pliroforisi) ta anefera gia na soy dhksw oti
> kai ta dyo kwmata ekanan oti mporoysan gia na epireasoyn to apotelesma
> pros ofelos toys. Opws eides den arnithika ayto pou eipes esy gia
> dwrodokia. Aplws i pragmatikotita einai oti oi poysties itan analogika
> ises gi ayto kai to apotelesma emeine akinito. Krinw ek toy
> apotelesmatos an katalaves. Den kanw ypotheseis.
Οι πουστιες δεν ηταν αναλογικα ισες, γιατι η ΝΔ και το ΚΚΕ και ο ΣΥΝ δεν
εκαναν τους Αλβανους Ελληνες για να βγαλουν ψηφο... Οι δημοσκοπησεις μεχρι
και την τελευταια στιγμη εδειχναν την ΝΔ μπροστα, οποτε επιστρατευτηκαν και
τα βιβλιαρια επιταγων του ΠΑΣΟΚ κτλ γνωστα εις τους παροικουντας την
Ιερουσαλημ.. Τελος παντων, εχεις δικιο, ας μην μπουμε σ'αυτη την ιστορια
γιατι ουτε εγω μπορω να στο αποδειξω, ουτε εσυ...
> Egw ti ftaiw? Ayto apantisan oi psifoforoi twn kwmatwn. Ektws an
> amfisviteis to gkalop (den nomizw).
Δεν αμφισβητω το γκαλοπ, αλλα δεν αμφισβητω επισης την πολιτικη τυπου Θατσερ
που βλεπω να εφαρμοζει το κατα τ'αλλα <<κοινωνικο>> και << σοσιαλιστικο>>
ΠΑΣΟΚ. Ξερεις τι ειπε μια φορα η Θατσερ στους Σκοτσεζους οταν ζητησαν
ελαφρυνσεις στο ηλεκτρικο και το γκαζι για να αντιμετωπισουν τον τρομερα
σκληρο χειμωνα που τους ειχε ζωσει 3 χρονια εδω; <<Δεν πειραζει, εσεις ειστε
συνηθισμενοι να κρυωνετε>>... Τα ιδια μας λεει κι ο Σημιτης.
<<Δεν πειραζει, εσεις ειστε συνηθισμενοι να πληρωνετε.>> (σ.σ. τις μαλακιες
τις δικες του). <<Δεν πειραζει, εσεις το 60% του λαου ειστε μαλακες και δεν
εχετε γνωμη>>... Ο ΕΚΣΥΓΧΡΟΝΙΣΤΗΣ!!!!!!
> Twra epixeirimatologeis san politikos apo Ellinikes tainies. Oloi oi
> mikorpolitikoi etsi lene prin tis ekloges (gia opoiodhpote kybernisi)...
Ευχαριστω για το κομπλιμαν...
> Ti na se pw...
Πες μου αλλο ενα κομπλιμαν κι οτι εχω δικιο. Μεχρι και Κουκουεδες ρε, φιλοι
και γνωστοι αριστεροι αμετανοητοι ψηφισανε ΝΔ για να φυγει η σαπιλα του
<<εκσυγχρονισμου>>...
> > Den dinoun enaysma sthn Tourkia gia
> > megalyteres diekdhkhseis?? Den dinoun se kanena thn entypwsh oti h
> Ellada
> > einai mia xwra pou thn kanoun oti 8eloun?
> >
>
> Nai giati einai alhtheia. To thema einai oti gia anatrapei ayto den
> thelei allagh kybernhsis, thelei doyleia ap oloys gia na ginei i Ellada
> pio dynati. Kai tote pali tha einai amfivolo an tha kataferoyme tipota
> giati oi pithanotites einai eis baros mas. Alla einai xreos mas na
> propathisoume.
Μπραβο... Θελει ομως και μια κυβερνηση να κανει αυτη την αλλαγη και να
συντονισει σωστα αυτη την προσπαθεια. Ετουτη εδω η μαυρη δεν ξερει που της
παν τα τεσσερα, η μαλλον ξερει αλλα κανει μωκο γιατι τα τεσσερα της την παν
κατ'ευθειαν προς Ελβετια δια καταθεσιν και μετα προς Σεϋχελλας δια αναπαυσιν
και απολαυσιν του απομυζευθεντος υστερηματος των Ελληνων..
> Ola ayta synevisan gia na apofygoyme ta xeirwtera. Ayto kata mia ennoia
> einai to symferon mas.
Δηλαδη φαγαμε την σφαλιαρα για να αποφυγουμε την κλωτσια; Αντε παρακει ρε
φιλε... Στο τελος θα μας κανουνε σαπιους στις σφαλιαρες και θα λεμε παλι
καλα που δεν φαγαμε και κλωτσιες; Τωρα ας γινουμε σοβαροι... Δεν ειναι το
συμφερον μας να πεθανουμε λιγο λιγο αργα αργα...
> > To mono problhma me to Shmith einai o Shmiths :) Ase mas re megale...
> Edw o
> > an8rwpos alla leei kai alla kanei, ayto einai hliou faeinotero. H
> politikh
> > tou den exei bash kai einai epizhmia gia th xwra, sou exw pei polles
> fores
> > posa kaka mas exei kanei..
> Ma to provlhma einai oti ayto poy vlepw egw anapofeykto esy to vlepeis
> ws praksi enantiwn mas. Tin Ellada twn 10 ekatomyriwn kai tis dedomenes
> enoples dynameis, den tis eftiakse o Simitis. Aytos tis parelave. Kai
> prospathei na kanei ayto poy akrivws nomizw oti xreiazetai. Na
> organwsei to kratos. Kai ayto xreiazetai afanh doyleia poy fernei
> apotelesma polla xronia argotera.
ΠΑΠΑΡΙΑ ΟΡΓΑΝΩΣΗ!!!!!!!! ΟΤΑΝ ΟΛΟΙ ΤΑ ΠΑΙΡΝΟΥΝΕ ΜΕ ΠΡΩΤΕΡΓΑΤΕΣ ΤΟ ΥΠΟΥΡΓΙΚΟ
ΣΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΟ ΕΣΥ ΤΟ ΛΕΣ ΟΡΓΑΝΩΣΗ;;;; Ερασιτεχνες πολιτικαντηδες ειναι ολοι
τους, αρχικλεφταροι και καπηλευτες.... Οταν ο διευθυντης της Γενικης
Τραπεζας εχει διορισει ολους του τους συγγενεις στα διοικητικα ποστα και
αμεσως μετα την ληξη της θητειας του εμφανιζεται στη Γενικη Τραπεζα ΜΑΥΡΗ
ΤΡΥΠΑ 1.5 ΔΙΣΕΚΑΤΟΜΜΥΡΙΑ ΔΡΑΧΜΕΣ, μας λες οτι δε φταιει το ΠΑΣΟΚ για την
καταντια του στρατου;; Μας λες οτι αυτοι οι αλητες θα μας οργανωσουνε;;;;
> Ti kataferane? Ayto poy zhtame einai dyskwlo na to kataferoyme akomi
> kai an ypirxe mono enas Skopianos. Den einai thema isxyws. Einai thema
> gaidoyrinoy peismatos. Allwste mono ayto kai to onoma toys exei
> apomhnei.
Δυσκολο; 2 ημερες να εμπαινε ο στρατος στα Σκοπια και σου ελεγα εγω. Τι
δυσκολο μωρε, ηττοπαθη. Πεισμα αυτοι; Τανκς εμεις. Μονο το ονομα τους εχει
απομεινει, ε γιατι δεν τους το παιρνουμε κι αυτο να ξεμπερδευουμε; Να τους
διαλυσουμε μια και καλη, οι Αλβανοι στην Αλβανια, οι Βουλγαροι στην
Βουλγαρια και οι Σερβοι στη Σερβια...
> Pompologies... Ayti einai i parigorgia toy apelpismenou. Emeis den
> eimaste apelpismenoi. Exoyme polla erismata. Aplws den exoyme ayta tha
> thelame na exoyme. Prepei na peksoyme me ayta poy exoyme wste na ta
> ayksisoyme.
ΕΙΜΑΣΤΕ απελπισμενοι, ειμαστε στριμωγμενοι και κοιτανε ολοι πως να μας
γαμησουνε το σφιχτο μας κωλαρακι... Τριχες ερεισματα εχουμε, ποιους τους
κωλομπαραδες Ευρωπαιους; Να παιξουμε μ'αυτα που εχουμε και να τα αυξησουμε
και να τους τα χωσουμε εκει που ξερουνε, αυτο πρεπει.
> Pia ittopatheia? Egw aplws parathetw tas gnvseis moy.
Τον πανικο σου και την δουλικοτητα σου παραθετεις, οταν τους αφηνεις να σε
γαμησουνε επειδη εχουνε λεφτα. Ελευθερια η Θανατος, δεν το εμαθες στο
σχολειό;
> Den apokleietai
Εννοεις ειναι αυτονοητο...
> Hmmm kai aeroplanofora, kai 800 F16 kai Stealth kai pyravloi. Twra
> sygkrineis to strato twn USA me ton Elliniko? Afoy aftoi prin steiloun
> toys stratiwtes toys, metatrepoyn ti xwra se kratira. H kanw lathos?
Ωραια, η Ελληνικη αεροπορια τι κανει; Γιατι την εχουνε κανει κουραδια με τις
ηλιθιες αποφασεις τους τοσα χρονια; Καποτε ημασταν λιγοτεροι αλλα ειχαμε την
ποιοτικη υπεροχη και δεν τολμουσε η Τουρκια να σηκωσει κεφαλι στο Αιγαιο.
Τωρα κινδυνευουμε να χασουμε και αυτη την υπεροχη, με την ανυπαρξια σωστου
σχεδιασμου και την ερασιτεχνικοτητα τους... Τα αποτελεσματα τα ειδες: Αυξηση
παραβιασεων, Ιμια, Σ300, αποκλεισμος της Λημνου απο το σχεδιασμο των
ασκησεων του ΝΑΤΟ...
> Poia einai ayta? Min ksexnas oti to dogma exei kathoristei me vasei tis
> oikonomikes dynatotites kai me vasei ton plythismo tis Elladas. Kai oxi
> apo to PASOK. Proteine esy ena allo dogma, poy na stekei omws...
Να ρωτησουνε κανα επιστημονα, κανα αμυντικο αναλυτη, κανα στρατιωτικο, οχι
να βαζουνε τον καθε μαλακα υπ. εξ. να κανει οτι τα ξερει ολα και να αλλαζει
το αμυντικο δογμα και η εξωτερικη πολιτικη με καθε κυβερνηση...
> Oxi aparraithta. Kai sigoyra oxi braxyprothesmi.
Απο τα Μαθηματικα μαθαινουμε οτι για καθε προβλημα υπαρχει μια τουλαχιστον
λυση και μαλιστα μια και μοναδικη εξ'αυτων ειναι και η βελτιστη. Τωρα
επαφιεται στον μαθηματικο (τον πολιτικο) να βρει αυτη τη λυση. Αναλογα με
τις δυνατοτητες του θα πλησιασει την βελτιστη λυση. Απ'οτι φαινεται οι
ικανοτητες των κυβερνωντων ειναι πολυ περιορισμενες, διοτι οχι μονο δεν
εχουν πλησιασει την βελτιστη λυση, αλλα δεν πλησιασει καμμια...
> > Xesthke ki h EE gia to diko mas symferon...
>
> E oxi akrivws. Alla peripoy isws.
Οχι περιπου... οπως σου το λεω...
> Den einai i masa. Einai to vathos organwsis. Einai synithes provlima
> ypanaptiktwn xwrwn. An prosekseis oles oi kratoyses xwres poy synhtws
> einai kai eneptygmenes exoyn ypiresies poy den allazoyn apo kyvernhsh
> se kybernish. Oi politikoi kanoyn ti doyleia toys alla to sxediasmo se
> vathos xronoy ton kanoyn epistimones. Emeis toys epistimones toys leme
> texnokrates kai toys xezoyme. Epeidh eimaste Zulu. Gi ayto!
Μπραβο... Και αντι για εμπειρους επαγγελματιες βαζοθμε ερασιτεχνες να μας
κυβερνανε...
> Prospathw na skeytomai aneksartita apo politika i thriskeytika dogmata.
Αυτο σε τιμα.
> Eisai sigoyros?
Ναι.
> Egw nomizw oti o Pagkalos einai to kat eksoxin atomo poy hthele na
> glytwsei ton Otsalan. Afoy ton ksereis twra. Alla ton tsampoyka toy ton
> valane ston kwlo (ws synhthws). Gi ayto anagkastike na paretithei. Alla
> an paraitoytan i kyvernhsh ektws apo to oti tha itan ypervoliko, oi
> toyrkikes efimerides tha egrafan oti h MIT rixnei kai kyberniseis stin
> Ellada.
Τον τσαμπουκα του τον εβαλε στον κωλο ποιος; Ο ΣΗΜΙΤΗΣ!!!!!! Αν ο Σημιτης
εβγαινει σαν σωστος πρωθυπουργος και σωστος Ελληνας να καλυψει τον υπουργο
του και να γλυτωσει τον Οτσαλαν, δεν θα γινοτανε αυτη η διεθνης ξεφτιλα...
Αλλα αλλα συμφεροντα εξυπηρετει ο Σημιτης, τη μανα του θα την πουλαγε για 10
μερες στη Μυκονο, τον Οτσαλαν δεν θα πουλαγε για ολοκληρη πρωθυπουργια;;;
> Egw den vlepw genika kati tetoio. Se orismenes leptomeries exeis dikio.
> Kaneis ena lathos. An kaneis thelei na bgalei lefta den ginetai
> prothypoyrgos. Akoma kai ena mesaio stelexos polyethinikis vgazei pio
> polla. Aytoi pou ontws koitane tin tsepi toys einai oi mikromesaioi
> politikoi. Giati einai anikanoi na vgaloyn leyta me fysiologikoys
> tropoys. Kata ti gnvmi moy oi perissoteroi politikoi me ycilo profil
> einai peripoy entimoi ektws ap ton malakandrea.
Αν ηταν εντιμοι θα ειχαν διωξει τους κηφηνες που αποκαλεις μικρομεσαιους. Αν
ηταν εντιμοι απο τη θεση ισχυος που κατεχουν θα φροντιζαν την Ελλαδα... Μη
με κανεις να γελαω τωρα...
> Afoy ksereis ti ennww giati me vasanizeis?
Ειμαι σεξοπορνοδιαστροφικος σαδιστης :))))) Λιγο χιουμορ δεν βλαπτει :)))))
> Otan lew image ennwo to synolo twn stoixeiwn poy prosdiorizoyn
> ton 'poystrako' kai ton mh poystrako.
Ελα ρε συ... πουστρακια ειναι οι περισσοτεροι, γιατι οι εντιμοι δεν δεχονται
να κανουνε παρεα με τα ρεμαλια... Οσον αφορα τα ονοματα που ειπες τεινω να
συμφωνησω εκτος απο το Σημιτη το Γιωργακη , τον Αβραμοπουλο και το
Λαλιωτη...
> Ouxi! Yparxei kai triti katigoria. Twn empathwn. Aytwn pou exoyn emones
> idees. Ayth i katigoria symperiferetai me vlabero tropo oxi apo
> idioteles symferon, oyte epidei einai xazoi. Alla epidh vazoyn to
> synaisthima panw apo ti logikh. Afhnoyn tis katavoles poy einai
> syndedemenes me to synaisthima na kathodhgoyn tis apofaseis toys. Afth
> i alloiwsi tis katharis aneksartitis skepsis apo to synaisthima
> epiferei arnhtikes synepies. Gia tis sxeseis metaksy twn anthrwpon
> einai kalo to synaisthima alla gia ekswteriki politiki prepei kaneis na
> einai Germanos... Pagokolwna. Etsi pisteyw. Gi ayto thewrw atoma san
> ton Papathemeli kai ton Xristodoylo engenws eilikrina alla tyflwmena
> apo tis proswpikes katavoles.
Δεν νομιζω... 1000 φορες να ητανε αυτοι στην εξουσια, οι αντρες οι Ελληνες,
οι φιλοπατρεις, οι τελευταιοι ρομαντικοι, που θα κανανε και τον τελευταιο
γερμαναρα σκονη και κιμα σε μια συζητηση, παρα τα λουστρακια και τα δουλικα
που μας κυβερνανε...
> To thema twn taytotitwn den apotelei allagi politistikwn
> xaraktiristikwn. Synelthe.
Με ποιανου κριτηριο; Του Σημιτη; Φαινεται οτι διαφωνει με αυτο το κριτηριο
γυρω στα 6 εκ. Ελληνες, 60% του πλη8υσμου...
> Amfivalw gi ayto.
Ακου που σου λεω... για ρωτα οσους εχουνε μπλεξει με αστυνομια...
> Tipota aplws i ekklisia tha emfanistei ws karagiozis. Pragma poy tha
> itan lypiro. Parepiptontow egw den eimai enantiwn tis ekklisias...
> Eimai enantiwn toy skeloys tis poy epithymei na patronarei ti skepsi
> moy. Alla ayto einai alli koybenta.
Κανενας δεν ειναι εναντιον της Εκκλησιας. Δεν θα μ'αρεσε να κυβερνα ο
Χριστοδουλος οπως κυβερνα ο Παπας, αλλα δεν μ'αρεσει κι ο αυταρχικος και
ανευθυνος τροπος που κυβερνα ο Σημιτης...
> Prosexe ti les giati mporei na to diabasei kaneis... Allakses toys
> kanones toy paixnidioy omws. Egw se rwthsa se mia taytotita neoy typou
> opoy tha anagrafetai proeretika to thriskeyma alla tipota allo, ektws
> apo onoma kai imerominia gennisews, esy ti symperasma tha ebgazes? Den
> se rwtisa ti symperasma tha evgazes an diethetes vasi dedomenwn pou na
> leie kai ti swvrako foraw. Ayto einai allo thema. Kai stin Agglia poy
> exeis zhsei tha ksereis oti einai adianoito mia etairia na exei sti
> diathesi tis ta stoixeia poy anafereis. Giati o nomos leitoyrgei
> (peripoy).
Αυτο που ηθελα να σου πω ειναι οτι πολλα μπορει κανεις να συμπερανει απο την
ταυτοτητα σου, ακομα κι απ' τα φαινομενικα αθωα... Το λαθος σου επισης ειναι
οτι ο καθενας μπορει να εχει τη βαση δεδομενων του κατοπιν αδειας του
Δαφερμου.
Τσαγια
Αντρεας.
sotirisxa...@gmail.com
> MPA, 22 Jun 00:
> "Αν όλοι οι άλλοι πλην του ενός θέλουν να καταργήσουν τα ατομικά δικαιώματα
> αυτό δεν μπορούν να το πετύχουν", είπε ο κ. Σταθόπουλος.
>
> Arage giati ayta ta logia den t'akouei ki o idios kai h kybernhsh, pou toso
> "sklhroi" kai adiallaktoi mas parousiazontai??
> Krima, krima...
> Krima omws kai gia thn antipoliteysh, pou anti na rwthsei ey8ews thn
> kybernhsh sth boulh poies einai oi pro8eseis ths sto 8ema twn politikwn
> gamwn kai ths allaghs ths Ellhnikhs shmaias, meta tis taytothtes, ka8etai
> kai 3ynetai... Dystyxws...
> polemhsan enantion twn fasistwn gi'ayth th shmaia...
> Xairetw,
> Antreas.
>