One Europe One Language
Quin McLeod
As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
common language and soon.
If we want to create a true single market there has to be
mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
various parts of the EU.
The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration =
of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business =
would run itself in such manner.
The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global economy
that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
The standardization of a states language was one of the most =
important things that its founders would do because they knew how =
important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in =
their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which spanned =
many lands with many different languages have used a standard =
language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven =
to be no more than an academic exercise.
The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or =
less fluent in English.
The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more, =
which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
Many French people can speak English but don=92t like to admit it. I =
am afraid the French have to realize that French is no longer a =
contender for the world language.
The Italians , Spanish and Portuguese have the most catching up to =
do but considering how far they have come in the last 40 years it =
should not be a problem.
=
The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction =
of English starting with say the children of the EU who start =
school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught =
mainly in English.
By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of =
the EU should be in English. =
=
This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we =
do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday =
resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum =
costumes.
Food for thought??
Quin.
Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Jacques Rouillard
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
> (...)
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
> (...)
> By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> the EU should be in English.
======================================================
RIP
Nous avons le regret d'annoncer la perte de
MARC BONNAUD
dlf,alf,ddc
trouvé mort subitement la tête sur son clavier
J. Calment, sa fille,
JP Chadourne, J Rouillard ses plus fideles lecteurs.
"Keep thy tongue from evil"(Ps 34:13)
=======================================================
--
Jacques Rouillard tel: ..33(0)491054342 fax: ..33(0)491700659
email: roui...@acm.org W3: http://ismea.imt-mrs.fr/~rouillar
---------------------------------------------------------------------
mankind, woman unkind
Joan Pontius
In article <331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>, Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> writes:
|> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
|> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
|> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
|> common language and soon.
|>
|> If we want to create a true single market there has to be
|> mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
|> this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
|> various parts of the EU.
|> The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
|> interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
|>
Welll aint that a shame. It's going to be that much tougher to
make a single market. Isn't that just toooooo bad for big business.
Next thing you'll be wanting Europeans to only eat at McDonalds
cus it is more efficient afterall, and everyone should wear
t-shirts and jeans, because it will help marketing when everyone
is exactly the same, doing the same thing and reading the same
magazines, and listening to the same music, Beatle remakes
probably, watching the same movies, getting
the same hair cuts, same schools, same cars, it's just
as well Renault shut down, everyone should be driving fords,
that will make marketing easier when everyone is driving the
same cars. Next step, close those silly belgian beer companies
who don't know how to mass produce beers so it's profitable
like it should be, and replace them with a budweiser factory
maybe. and replace those small chocolate
shops with a big Hershey plant, that will be much more
efficient at um, efficient at making um, well, it will
will help overcome obstacles, obstacles to um..
umm....
obstacles to ...
well, marketing things.
Hey,
KUS MIJN KLOETEN
if i had any.
John Lynch
>By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
>the EU should be in English.
>
>
>
>Food for thought??
Sounds good to me, Quinnie
--
John Lynch
Hiski Haapoja
Quin McLeod (Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
: more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
: time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
: route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
: common language and soon.
OK. I nominate Finnish. Alternatively, Latin will do.
: The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more, =
: which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
Dubbing should be stopped because it's barbarism. The same with
pan-scanning of widescreen films.
# Want to see me in a color photo?
<http://juha.tcm.hut.fi/meeting/tapaus9701.html>
I'm the creep in black-white-blue at center behind. #
Anton Haddeman
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
>common language and soon.
<snip>
>
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>
<snip>
>By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of =
>
>the EU should be in English. =
Sure, but I think that all Europeans also should be more or less the
same, in all possible ways.
Therefore I suggest that we should organise a Miss Europe and Mr
Europe contest, and clone the two winners of this contest. After 20
years, we can have a few thousand "new Europeans".
Then, by 2018, we can forbid human reproduction by any other means
apart from cloning, and we can make Europe a happy place, where
everybody looks the same, thinks the same and speaks the same
language. This would take about one generation.
Don't you agree that this solution would solve ALL European problems ?
Anton
==============
Am I myself, or am I a clone ?
Marc Bonnaud
Quin McLeod a déliré :
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency
Sans les grands bretons
> It is imperative that we decide on a common language and soon.
Oui : on votera à la majorité simple, chacun pour sa langue : l'allemand
gagne (88 millions).
Guten Abend,
Et up yours !
> The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
> interpreters
Ce qui est surtout intolérable, c'est le nombre trop élevé d'îles dans
l'Union : cela coûte trop cher en coûts de transports
> Food for thought??
Eat shit
Marc Bonnaud
Jacques Rouillard :
> > English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> > English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
Pourquoi vous l'avez vue avant moi celle-là ? Je n'ai pas eu de chance.
> RIP
> Nous avons le regret d'annoncer la perte de
> MARC BONNAUD
Tiens, vous devriez voir ma trombine sur votre petit écran un de ces
jours, j'ai enregistré un petit passage hier pour une chaîne du câble à
propos de nos procès et de la francophonie sur le Grand Réseau.
D'autre part, d'ici une quinzaine de jours dans un grand quotidien
vespéral, un appel européen pour le plurilinguisme (signé par Bourdieu,
Hagège, Ettore Scola, ..)
> J. Calment, sa fille,
> JP Chadourne, J Rouillard ses plus fideles lecteurs.
Vous avez oublié de préciser le lieu de la cérémonie religieuse
(ni Rouillard à l'Eglise, ni condoléances)
M.K.
John Lynch wrote:
>
> In article <331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>, Quin McLeod
> <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> writes
> >The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> >of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> >school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> >mainly in English.
> >By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >the EU should be in English.
^^^^^^^
> >This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
NO WAY !
This is a Europe of the nations and not a Europe of the mass.
English is moreover a primitive language so i don't understand
why the whole Europe should be using it as a standard , unless ofourse
EU is just an offshoot of US .
In addition, i do not understand the urge to emulate all Europeans and
simply wreck
every divertness. Nature has shown to us that it is for our benefit and
also essential
if not everyone is just the same.
But maybe the profit of the citizens who constitute Europe was not in
mind in the first place
but the profit of the Multinational Economic companies etc. that will
easier control the market
and also expand their power in a world where the self-identity of the
nations has disappered.
Alexandros
konan
Marc Bonnaud wrote:
>
> Qui tu e teus "le pen" e que podem ter ideias tão claras e obvias, só te peço e um favor: aprende primeiro a falar um pouco de "europa sem o meu paìs"
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen
Quin McLeod wrote:
> This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
> do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday
> resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum
> costumes.
>
> Food for thought??
Indeed!
Quin, I do not know if you saw a thread (in
talk.poilitics.european-union etc.)few months ago which was started by
me, "WANTED: The common official EU language: English".
That discussion continued for several weeks, and my arguments were quite
close to 100% same as you use here. Everything you write makes sense to
me.
This issue raises obviously so fundamental emotions that I'm afraid the
smart decision may take some time. Particularily some French are furious
if someone tells them their language is not *the* international one.
Also many anti-euros fear that it will leed to single monolistic culture
reminding the USA. IMO they are quite stupid.
Carry on Quin, and count me in!
> Quin.
MHH
Ruben Van Parys
Quin McLeod wrote:
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
All those different languages is the thing that makes Europe so
unique. Language is culture and I don't want to come to a Europe
with one culture.
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
> but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
> to be no more than an academic exercise.
Perhaps English is the most logical choice. But (I guess) your native
language is English, so for you there is no problem. But the rest of
Europe has to give up their own language and culture to serve the
anglo-american new world-order. A people without its own language is
no people anymore. And one can only express himself correctly in his
native language. So perhaps I will be misunderstood because my native
language is Dutch.
> The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or
> less fluent in English.
>
> The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
> which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
That's true. I think that one of the reasons why we, in Flanders, learn
so fast another language, is that we never dub a film or something else
on TV. I hate it when they do that. It's horrible to listen to that.
> The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> mainly in English.
> By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> the EU should be in English.
Crazy!
I don't want to live in that Europe!
> This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
> do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday
> resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum
> costumes.
It's easy to say that as englishman....
Vele groeten vanuit Vlaanderen,
Greetings,
Salut,
Tschuss,
Hasta la vista,
Ciao,
Ruben Van Parys.
--
* thuispagina : "Volksnationalisme op het Web"
* adres : http://titan.glo.be/~gd32200
*
* Welkom!
John Lynch
In article <33173b7b...@news.xs4all.nl>, Anton Haddeman
<pa3...@xs4all.nl> writes
>Don't you agree that this solution would solve ALL European problems ?
>
Only if we elect Kohl and Thatcher as the breeding stock
--
John Lynch
Jos Nijs
Hey,
>same cars. Next step, close those silly belgian beer companies
>who don't know how to mass produce beers so it's profitable
>like it should be, and replace them with a budweiser factory
>maybe.
Nice thread, but, detail: Interbrew (HQ Brussels and Leuven) is the
world's nr 3 beer group behind Bud and Heineken. They even own LaBatt,
Canada's nr 1.
JN, Leuven
Jos Nijs
Hey,
>OK. I nominate Finnish. Alternatively, Latin will do.
I agree with you on Latin. After all, it once was the common language
in most of Europe (even Britain and Ireland²). ² recent studies show
that IRL might have been a part of the Roman Empire for a while.
>: The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more, =
>: which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
>Dubbing should be stopped because it's barbarism. The same with
>pan-scanning of widescreen films.
Thank God for those subtitled movies on BBC2. On the other hand, alot
of foreign movies are dubbed in the UK (for example Das Boot).
JN
Jacques Rouillard
> Tiens, vous devriez voir ma trombine sur votre petit écran un de ces
> jours, j'ai enregistré un petit passage hier pour une chaîne du câble à
> propos de nos procès et de la francophonie sur le Grand Réseau.
Dans ces regions reculees, le cable n'est pas le meme que chez vous. La chaine?
> > J. Calment, sa fille,
> > JP Chadourne, J Rouillard ses plus fideles lecteurs.
>
> Vous avez oublié de préciser le lieu de la cérémonie religieuse
> (ni Rouillard à l'Eglise, ni condoléances)
Ca ne peut être que St Jean de Latran, puisque De Gaulle y a été chanoine.
On pourrait trouver pire.
Oliver Gassner
In soc.culture.german you (Quin McLeod
<Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk>) wrote:
>The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
>which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
We'll stop dubbing films as soon as the American actors vow to
stop MUMblin.. and start to take acting (speaking) lessons.
:) Oliver
--
Literatur online: http://www.swbv.uni-konstanz.de/wwwroot/olli.html
Oliver Gassner ---- mailto:fra...@poboxes.com
Bitte von Antwortpostings KEINE Mail-Kopie.
Send no junkmail! E-Mail-Werbung unerwuenscht!
Davide Dente
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
Well, we don't, actually.
You British want to have no part of it !
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
>common language and soon.
OK
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
>but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
>to be no more than an academic exercise.
Wrong choice. It will give an unfair advatage to part of the
continent. But you are right about the artificial languages.
So i propose Latin, a language to wich all of us can trace an
heritage. A language used by a nation wich encompassed the whole of
the Mediterranean area !
>Food for thought??
Food for laughs ;-)
----
To send me a reply, delete the word REMOVE from my address.
George Torrieri
> One Europe One Language
> From: Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk>
..........
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
>common language and soon.
......
>
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
>but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven =
>to be no more than an academic exercise.
The only reason for that is that no global societies like the European
union (which are ,after all, what Esperanto was invented for) have ever
been attempted before.
In addition, introducing a de facto new language HAS been done before:
Hebrew was dead as an "everyday" language for 2000 years yet it has been
resurrected successfully as the language of the State of Israel.
Introducing a sinthethic language like Esperanto would help overcome the
obstacle of nationalism in the single european countries and would also be a
lot easier to learn than english.
........
>Quin.
>
>Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Timo Paakkunainen
Quin McLeod wrote:
>
> The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
> which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
Stop dubbing is good thing, but...
in my opinion, subtitled English films or English music don't have
significance in learning English among people generally. For example
here in Finland ordinary people (as I am also) don't listen
the English speaking in films or in music. If one started to
listen to it, one wouldn't understand and loose most of the story.
Of course one would catch such clauses as: "I'll kill you. Yes. No.
Fuck. I'll shoot you ass hole. Oh shit..."
And in music, singing (English lyrics) is only as one instrument
among other instruments, The words are not listened. And usually
those have nothing to listen to: "Ooh, aah, baby, baby, I feel hot.
You so cool and I ..."
One have to really made up his mind to practise the language
before it gives some benefit.
Esperanto rules
Timo
Stephane Dohet
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
>
>common language and soon.
>
It's not so urgent, until a common language is chosen, English stays
the de facto common language.
>If we want to create a true single market there has to be
>mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
>this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
>various parts of the EU.
I hope you don't want to suppress official EU languages or minority
languages. The commonness of the Europeans is their diversity.
>The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
>interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
>the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration =
>of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business =
>would run itself in such manner.
>
But EU is not a commerce or a shop or an enterprise. I want that any
European citizen can be allowed to comunicate with the European
institutions in one of the 11 official languages.
>The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global economy
>that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
>The standardization of a states language was one of the most =
>important things that its founders would do because they knew how =
>important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in =
>their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which spanned =
>many lands with many different languages have used a standard =
>language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
>
If there is only one competence which cannot be harmonized by the EU,
it is languages !!! you cannot force a people to speak a language he
doesn't want. The point with religion is irrelevant : if Catholic
churches used latin, it was to tell the peoples something they won't
understand and so brainwashing their toughts.
>
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>
Of course. Coming for a native English-Speaker, it's not surprising.
But you forget one thing : the first condition of a language to
become the common language of all Europeans is that it cannot be a
European official language. That would favourize too much britons and
Irish.
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
>but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven =
>to be no more than an academic exercise.
>
I think you don't really know what Esperanto is, and who speaks it.
As a matter of fact, Esperanto is easier than English, more regular,
learnable in a month. It is not a "natural language", and is not the
official language of any European state.
Choosing the Esperanto language would force the English-speakers to do
the same than the other European citizens : learning a language,
otrher than English.
>
>Food for thought??
>
>Quin.
>
>Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Let's abolish the English imerialism world-wide .
Esperanto should be the common language for all the Earthlings.
--
Stephane Dohet, Namur, Wallonia (EU)
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<>European Federalism is optimistic, europhobes are pessimistic !<>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
My European page is http://www.ping.be/~pin00033/index.html -- European Federation at use.htm -- EU Federal Constitution at constit.htm
|===Blue Ribbon===Free Speech Online Campaign===Ruban Bleu===
Mauro Venier
On Sat, 1 Mar 1997, Oliver Gassner wrote:
> Date: Sat, 01 Mar 1997 14:16:29 GMT
> From: Oliver Gassner <fra...@fto.de>
> Newsgroups: soc.culture.austria, soc.culture.belgium, soc.culture.british,
> soc.culture.french, soc.culture.german, soc.culture.greek,
> soc.culture.italian, soc.culture.irish, soc.culture.nordic,
> soc.culture.netherlands, soc.culture.europe, soc.culture.portuguese,
> soc.culture.spain, eunet.politics, talk.politics.europea
> Subject: Re: One Europe One Language
>
> x-no-archive: yes
> In soc.culture.german you (Quin McLeod
> <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk>) wrote:
>
> >By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> >the EU should be in English.
>
> You are kidding?
>
>
> BTW Germany is the richest stae in the EU, so we will just buy
> England and Ireland and make German the main language.
>
> (This is a joke. :)) )
>
> Oliver
> --
> Literatur online: http://www.swbv.uni-konstanz.de/wwwroot/olli.html
> Oliver Gassner ---- mailto:fra...@poboxes.com
> Bitte von Antwortpostings KEINE Mail-Kopie.
> Send no junkmail! E-Mail-Werbung unerwuenscht!
>
>
>
>
>
Yes, he's kidding (or dreaming).
Keine Sorge Oliver: there's no proposal in the European institutions about
such a thing.
Tschuss,
Mauro.
***********************************************************
G * MAURO VENIER * G
E * Institut fuer Kernphysik, Raum 122 * E
N * Westfaelische Wilhelms Universitaet * N
O * Wilhelm Klemm Strasse 9 * O
A * 48149 Muenster * A
1 * Germany * 1
8 * Tel.: +49.251.8334969 * 8
9 * Fax: +49.251.8334962 * 9
3 * E-mail: ven...@uni-muenster.de * 3
***********************************************************
Science is not a job. It is an obsession!
(John Ziman)
Dave Healy
John Lynch <jly...@ldta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Thank you, John. Now I'm not hungry at all. Excuse while I nip outside
to throw up.
Dave
Delete the trailing X to send mail; "I put instant coffee in my
microwave oven and almost went back in time." - Steven Wright
Dave Healy
Markku Huttu-Hiltunen <markku.hut...@pp.inet.fi> wrote:
>Particularily some French are furious
>if someone tells them their language is not *the* international one.
I still find this ironic, given the way that Paris has tried to
obliterate local languages like Breton and Gascon; Cornish, and to a
large extent Gaelic and Welsh have been driven out of mainstream use
on the UK. I think we should just face up to the fact that the
dominant political force in any country imposes its language on the
rest of the area it controls. No one country has that sort of
political leverage in the EU, and hence I don't think any single
languange will be adopted - although I agree that if one is, it will
probably end up being English.
John Lynch
In article <331a13b9...@news.belwue.de>, Oliver Gassner
<fra...@fto.de> writes
>You are kidding?
>
>
>BTW Germany is the richest stae in the EU, so we will just buy
>England and Ireland and make German the main language.
>
>(This is a joke. :)) )
Yes, indeed. A German joke. Why have you Germans never understood that
jokes should be funny?
--
John Lynch
P Jean-dit-Bailleul
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
Have i read we? if so you are meaning that the UK is moving to a single
currency with Europe. I've never seen it anywhere. In fact UK is
absolutely opposed to a single currency unit in Europe except if it is
the pound.
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
>common language and soon.
Why? no good reasons. The most important particularity in Europe is that
there is no homogeneity, having a single language is homogeneity, that
will suppress all interest to European culturesssssssssssssss (never
forget the "S").
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! NEVER
In the UE, one country is one vote (they all have presidency for 6
month...) so the normal language is french because it is official
language in 4 countries : France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Italia (Aosta
area).
Second the more important language type in Europe is latinian languages.
English is not so it does not have to do. The logical choice are French,
Spanish, Italian, Portugese and Catalan. Make your choice.
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
Since when should we care about people from other country to decide our
own laws? To do so, UK have a lot to do just to respect their engagement
with the UE!
Second French is the official language (the one used to make trade
official papers) for more population than english (UK, US ans AU if you
want).
Third There is not one english but a least 3 : UK, US and AU. French
there is only 2 : internationnal French (the one spoken in Europe) and
Creole. Even if the second is the official language nowhere.
>but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
>to be no more than an academic exercise.
Right
>Food for thought??
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philippe JEAN-DIT-BAILLEUL 1374 Moraud
Laval University Ste Foy, Canada, Qc G1K 7P4
Tel : (418) 656 7777 ext 11211
Email : mailto:JEANDITB...@EM.AGR.CA
Web :
http://res.agr.ca/swinenet/porcexpert/jeanditbailleulp/en/home.html
Carlos Colson
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>...
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw >ever
>Food for thought??
As noticed in other replies, you are a native language is English, and your
choice is at least a bit predictable. Furthermore I think if we would order
the Languages of the EU, English would come in third, after German and
French, (To be honest I'm not sure about French).
I also understand that these two other languages are lingua non grata for
the UK (but isn't the EU societas non grata for the UK to ;-))
From my point of view I think that the English still have the most
nationalistic views, and they are the least Europe minded. Your opinion
expresses - in my view - this typical English view, because they are the
one who would benefit the most out of it and it would be a moral victory
for the English language, as if other languages are not important enough.
Maybe if everybody knew at least English and French, (for example of
course) and The English and French would learn both languages, the problem
would be solved.
This would be an enormous step towards rapprochement in Europe, A sign of
good faith. But not an alibi to "dispose" the other languages.
If there should be a common language chosen, it should not favour any
language group (except the Dutch language group, since I am a member of
that one, and we all think we are polyglots)
So maybe en artificial language connecting us all would be a sollution.
Bye,
--
============================================================
Carlos Colson E-Mail: Carlos...@glo.be
(Weekendadres(s)) Weekadres(s))
Opitterkiezel 87a Prins Albertlei 27 bus 6
B-3960 Bree B-2600 Berchem
Fax: +32(089)472019 Fax: +32(03)2397877
Tel: +32(089)471030 Tel: +32(03)2810174
============================================================
Gu
<Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> writes:
> |> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> |> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> |> common language and soon.
> |>
> |> mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
> |> this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
> |> various parts of the EU.
> |> interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
> |>
>
Oiso i dengma, swa gschikda, wauma dkinda mera sprochn lerna losadn.
Gu
--
Gunther A. Schmidt
e-mail: gunther...@jk.uni-linz.ac.at
Dr. Bernd Kissler
Quin McLeod wrote:
> The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> mainly in English.
> By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> the EU should be in English.
>
> This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
> do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday
> resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum
> costumes.
>
> Food for thought??
>
> Quin.
>
> Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Quinn,
You must have read my mind or at least be connected to mine via fast
ethernet.
I fully agree with every word you say.
Bernd,
--
To reply via email remove "SPAMSTOPPER" from my address. Thanks.
Visit our non-commercial web site "Immigration to Australia"
at http://www.dataweb.nl/~bekissler/index.html
Dr. Bernd Kissler
Well, I think that it would be smarter to teach children more languages.
BK
Erotokritos Kretikos
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
>
> common language and soon.
>
> If we want to create a true single market there has to be
> mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
> this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
> various parts of the EU.
> The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
> interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
>
> the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration =
>
> of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business =
>
> would run itself in such manner.
>
> The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global economy
> that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
> The standardization of a states language was one of the most =
>
> important things that its founders would do because they knew how =
>
> important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in =
>
> their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which spanned =
>
> many lands with many different languages have used a standard =
>
> language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
>
>
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
Greek is the choice !!!
Cf.
I always wished to address this assembly in Greek, but I realized that it
would have been indeed "Greek" to all present in this room, I found out
however, that I could make my address in Greek, which would still be English
to everybody. With your permission, Mr. Chairman I shall do it now, using with
the exceptiion of articles and prepositions, only Greek words.
Kyrie
I eulogise the archons of the Panethnic Numismatic Thesaurus
and the Ecumenical Trapeza for the orthodoxy of their axioms, methods and
policies, although there is an episode of cacophony of the Trapeza with HELLAS.
With enthusiasm we dialogue and synagonise at the synods of our didymous
organisations in wkich polymorphous economic ideas and dogmas are analysed and
synthesised. Our critical problems such as the numismatic plethora generate
some agony and melancholy. This phenomenon is characteristic of our epoch. But,
to my thesis, we have the dynamism to program therapeutic practices as a
prophylaxis from chaos and catastrophe. In parallel, a panethnic unhypocritical
economic synergy and charmonisation in a democratic climate is basic. I
apologize for my eccentric monologue.
I emphasise my eucharisties to you. kyrie, to the eugenic and generous American
ethnos and to the organisers and protagonists of its amphictiony and the
gastronomic symposia.
Xenophon Zolotas
International Monentary Fund (1957)
[...]
>
> Quin.
>
> Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Erotokritos
Jos Nijs
Hey,
>Second the more important language type in Europe is latinian languages.
>English is not so it does not have to do. The logical choice are French,
>Spanish, Italian, Portugese and Catalan. Make your choice.
Hehehe :-) You're no different from the English guy... Btw, let's
see... 55 mio English ppl, 3 mio Irish, 6 mio Flemish, 15 mio Dutch,
80 mio Germans, 10 mio Austrians, 4 mio Danish, 9 mio Swedish, 5 mio
Norwegians... that makes 187 million people speaking a Germanic
language in the EU. Versus 10 mio Portuguese, 40 mio Spanish, 55 mio
French, 50 mio Italians, 3 mio Walloons: 158 million Latinic language
speakers. Let me know if I forgot a country (except the special ones
like Finland and Greece) or if the numbers are absolutely wrong.
>Second French is the official language (the one used to make trade
>official papers) for more population than english (UK, US ans AU if you
>want).
Central Africa is rapidly becoming English speaking territory. The
second language in those areas used to be French, but English is
catching up rapidly. (not that I'm defending English as European lang.
nr 1, I'm just pointing out his 'mistake')
JN
Dr. Bernd Kissler
Jos Nijs wrote:
> Hehehe :-) You're no different from the English guy... Btw, let's
> see... 55 mio English ppl, 3 mio Irish, 6 mio Flemish, 15 mio Dutch,
> 80 mio Germans, 10 mio Austrians, 4 mio Danish, 9 mio Swedish, 5 mio
> Norwegians... that makes 187 million people speaking a Germanic
> language in the EU. Versus 10 mio Portuguese, 40 mio Spanish, 55 mio
> French, 50 mio Italians, 3 mio Walloons: 158 million Latinic language
> speakers. Let me know if I forgot a country (except the special ones
> like Finland and Greece) or if the numbers are absolutely wrong.
Jos,
I am sorry to say that YOU and many others don't get Quinn's point.
Currently, European industry has to spend millions and millions alone to
have their patent applications translated into the national languages
when entering the so-called national phase.
The European Patent Office proceeds patent applications in three
official languages which likewise costs millions and millions, resources
which, in the end, are being paid by the patent applicants.
Europe's future being at stake. this topic cannot be discussed on such
an emotional level and should be left to experts. This is no playground
for adolescents.
Dr. Bernd Kissler
(The author, affiliated with the European Patent Office, expresses his
personal views only)
P Jean-dit-Bailleul
Jos Nijs wrote:
>
> Hehehe :-) You're no different from the English guy... Btw, let's
> see... 55 mio English ppl, 3 mio Irish, 6 mio Flemish, 15 mio Dutch,
> 80 mio Germans, 10 mio Austrians, 4 mio Danish, 9 mio Swedish, 5 mio
> Norwegians... that makes 187 million people speaking a Germanic
> language in the EU. Versus 10 mio Portuguese, 40 mio Spanish, 55 mio
> French, 50 mio Italians, 3 mio Walloons: 158 million Latinic language
> speakers. Let me know if I forgot a country (except the special ones
> like Finland and Greece) or if the numbers are absolutely wrong.
I can speak english and german, and knowing one never help me to learn
the other. I can speak french and it help to anderstand a few things in
italian and spanish. That's what's i was meaning.
> >Second French is the official language (the one used to make trade
> >official papers) for more population than english (UK, US ans AU if you
> >want).
>
> Central Africa is rapidly becoming English speaking territory. The
> second language in those areas used to be French, but English is
> catching up rapidly. (not that I'm defending English as European lang.
> nr 1, I'm just pointing out his 'mistake')
French is still the official language in those areas
>
> JN
George Torrieri
[In parallel to my esperanto argument]
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
>
>common language and soon.
>
>If we want to create a true single market there has to be
>mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
>this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
>various parts of the EU.
>The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
>interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
........
>
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
>but in the world.
English is in one sense the ideal language, and in another one the exact
opposite:
The best criterion for such an international language would be the ease
of learning it.
English is a lot easier than many other european languages (such as
italian) because it has practically no grammar to speak of.
One can just learn the words & speak it.
On the other hand, english's spelling chaos and enormous amount of
irregular words and verbs make it a nightmare to learn.
In this respect, Italian is much more desirable as it is written exactly
as spelled. If I didn't come to live here in the UK, I
suspect I would never have learned english properly.
An elegant solution would be to totally reform english removing all
spelling and irregular verbs:
Derefore ,first of oll, everiting uould be wraited ecsactli as saied.
Irregular plurals laik men for man uould sease to ecsist (so de plural
for man uould be mans) and de saim thing uould happen to irregular verbs
(wraited as de past for wrait, caned as de past for can eccetera).
Converting everion in Iurope to dis uould be remarcabli iisi sins it
uould maik de language eesier to lern. Unfortunatli de UK sims to
hav an aversion to changin from irrasional difficult sistems to eesi uans:
Luk at de imperial units (uich no-one nous properli) insted of de metric
sistem (uich uan can lern on de dai is is teached).
Ani commentari uelcom, of cours in simplified english onli, ai could not
bear de old cumbersom version again ;-)
Cabre
John Lynch wrote:
>
> In article <331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>, Quin McLeod
> <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> writes
> >The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> >of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> >school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> >mainly in English.
> >By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> >the EU should be in English.
Please, don't be so poor minded!
Every language is a different way of seeing the world,
because each language builds a different structure inside
the brain. Losing languages is losing experience (centuries
of it), culture, ideas, etc.
I don't think a farmer in Poland needs English to live,
nor a fisherman in Finland, nor 90% of the European population.
I am not against English. I have lernt Spanish as a second
language (I live in Catalonia), and English as a third,
and both are quite useful for communicating. Now I am
learning German as a fourth, just for the job. But in my
everyday life, 99% of the time, I use Catalan (10 million people
understands/uses it, but it is not used in the European
Parlamient, UNESCO, ... but it is used in the UNO thanks
to Andorra).
If you are optimistic, I hope in a short time there will
exist automatic translators for everyone, so the people like
you will still don't need to learn languages, and the people
interested in them will still learn them as a way of
understanding the world.
--
Marti Cabre, mailto:ca...@jet.es
Matadepera, http://www.dracnet.es/drac/vallocci/matadep/
Catalonia, http://www.catalonia.gencat.es/
Third Stone from the Sun, http://www.nasa.com
Geert Blervacq
You can't seriously be talking about taking away what people are most
attached to : the essence of their cultural identity ... language.
The EU for the time being is a merchant's Europe ... not a political nor a
social and even less a cultural one. And it is not by imposing a "common
language" that European development will function.
I am not against European development ... I am completely for it. But
cultural differences, expression, activity, diversity in Europe needs to be
rpotected and developped if this "European adventure" is to work.
Christina Sleszynska
European Forum for the Arts and Heritage
ef...@innet.be
Quin McLeod
Quin McLeod wrote:
> =
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
> =
> If we want to create a true single market there has to be
> mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
> this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
> various parts of the EU.
> The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
> interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into
> the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration
> of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business
> would run itself in such manner.
> =
> The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global economy
> that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
> The standardization of a states language was one of the most
> important things that its founders would do because they knew how
> important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in
> their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which spanned
> many lands with many different languages have used a standard
> language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
> =
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
> but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
> to be no more than an academic exercise.
> =
> The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or
> less fluent in English.
> =
> The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
> which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
> =
> Many French people can speak English but don=92t like to admit it. I
> am afraid the French have to realize that French is no longer a
> contender for the world language.
> =
> The Italians , Spanish and Portuguese have the most catching up to
> do but considering how far they have come in the last 40 years it
> should not be a problem.
> =
> =
> The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> mainly in English.
> By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> the EU should be in English.
> =
> This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
> do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday
> resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum
> costumes.
> =
> Food for thought??
> =
> Quin.
> =
> Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Judging from the follow ups and E-mail I have received it seems a =
lot of people have seen my post as an attack on their culture. I =
was never suggesting the banning of other languages or the sort of =
chauvinistic measures which are used in Quebec. I believe all =
European languages should be preserved. In parts of Scotland for =
example Gaelic is spoken by people every day but they can speak =
English also. Thus preserving their language and having no =
communication problems with the wider world.
My proposal is only a rational response to a situation which is =
becoming ever more acute due to the expansion of the EU. The EU =
may expand to include much of eastern Europe in the next decade =
or so. =
Many people Champaign the merits of using a -designed- language =
like Esperanto or reviving a dead language like Latin or even ancient =
Greek. I admit this would be the fairest approach but it is unrealistic. =
People will not bother learning such a language. Learning a language =
for most people is a very boring process. The great thing about English =
is that it is the language of glamour. Most teenagers across Europe =
know many of the words to pop songs or key phrases in films or general =
popular culture from the US. English is exciting for many teenagers
across Europe.
True the British and Irish would have an advantage if English was
adopted =
as the official language of Europe but from my experience the British =
are the worst educated people in the EU and this advantage would help us =
catch up.
The French seem to be the most hostile to the use of English but English =
is related to French. It is the mix of French , German and Scandinavian =
language elements that make English a compromise language for Europe.
I have traveled extensively around Europe and lived and worked in =
Germany( for a multinational ) and I can honestly say that I have got =
by no problem only speaking English.
When I worked in Germany I used to hear a strange type of German spoken =
between local people. I found out that even today many villages or small =
regions have their own dialect referred to as -Plat Deutsch-.
Plat Deutsch is highly regional and I was told that the Plat from one =
village my not be fully understood in the next. =
Had Germany not agreed an official form of German , which the population =
had to learn at school, the whole business of administering the country =
would have been a nightmare. This example should serve as a lesson for =
the EU.
BTW In turkey when they changed from the Arabic script to the Latin in =
the 1920=92s the Police would perform random tests. If you failed you wen=
t =
to prison for one day!
Bye,
aurevoir,
tschuss, =
ciao,
........
Quin.
Blaine Dixon
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
>more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
>time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
>route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
>
>common language and soon.
>
>If we want to create a true single market there has to be
>mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
>this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
>various parts of the EU.
>The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
>interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into =
>
>the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration =
>
>of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business =
>
>would run itself in such manner.
>
>The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global economy
>that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
>The standardization of a states language was one of the most =
>
>important things that its founders would do because they knew how =
>
>important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in =
>
>their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which spanned =
>
>many lands with many different languages have used a standard =
>
>language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
>
>
>English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
>
>English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe =
>
>but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven =
>
>to be no more than an academic exercise.
>
>The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or =
>
>less fluent in English.
>
>The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more, =
>
>which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
>
>Many French people can speak English but don=92t like to admit it. I =
>
>am afraid the French have to realize that French is no longer a =
>
>contender for the world language.
>
>The Italians , Spanish and Portuguese have the most catching up to =
>
>do but considering how far they have come in the last 40 years it =
>
>should not be a problem.
> =
>
>
>The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction =
>
>of English starting with say the children of the EU who start =
>
>school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught =
>
>mainly in English.
>By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of =
>
>the EU should be in English. =
>
> =
>
>This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we =
>
>do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday =
>
>resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum =
>
>costumes.
>
>
>Food for thought??
>
>Quin.
>
>Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
I'm an American but my opinion is that local markets are more
responsive to the people needs. Say if a food product that the local
people needed could bring more money overseas the multinational
companies will export it, leaving the local people to do without.
As for one common language, well we tried that experiment in the USA
with English and for a few hundred years it worked, but under
increased immigration,and with liberal politics, well funded
foundations and universites promotion the "politics of diversity" the
experiment has failed.
Now welfare applications are given out in 8 languages in California,
all over the USA ballots are in 2 or three different languages, and
after youve been here 15 years you can even apply and become a citizen
without knowing a single word of English!
But don't get on a plane and rush over here because we are going broke
and the future looks rather bleak.
John Lynch
In article <3318DA...@jet.es>, Cabre <ca...@jet.es> writes
>John Lynch wrote:
>>
>> In article <331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>, Quin McLeod
>> <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> writes
>> >By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
>
>Every language is a different way of seeing the world,
>because each language builds a different structure inside
>the brain. Losing languages is losing experience (centuries
>of it), culture, ideas, etc.
>
2) The person who did write it was looking for a little amusement. You
have given it to him (and to me)
--
John Lynch
Pedro Marcos
Que todos os Malthusianos vão para o c....!
Carlos Colson
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<3318D3...@aveon.demon.co.uk>...
>Judging from the follow ups and E-mail I have received it seems a
>lot of people have seen my post as an attack on their culture. I
>was never suggesting the banning of other languages or the sort of
>chauvinistic measures which are used in Quebec. I believe all
>European languages should be preserved. In parts of Scotland for
>example Gaelic is spoken by people every day but they can speak
>English also. Thus preserving their language and having no
>communication problems with the wider world.
But by proposing English, there is an implicit reference to the alleged
supremacy of this language. The mere fact that you yourself are .uk makes
your proposal at least seem suspicious and self-centred. This is not a
personal attack, it is just an impression.
And on the other hand it promotes the American culture, which has gives a
shallow impression. (Like communism is always definitely wrong, in my
(Belgian) opinion you'd better be a child molesting pedofile in the US than
a communist)
>My proposal is only a rational response to a situation which is
>becoming ever more acute due to the expansion of the EU. The EU
>may expand to include much of eastern Europe in the next decade
>or so.
Maybe, but why ENGLISH?
>Many people Champaign the merits of using a -designed- language
>like Esperanto or reviving a dead language like Latin or even ancient
>Greek. I admit this would be the fairest approach but it is unrealistic.
>People will not bother learning such a language. Learning a language
>for most people is a very boring process. The great thing about English
>is that it is the language of glamour. Most teenagers across Europe
>know many of the words to pop songs or key phrases in films or general
>popular culture from the US. English is exciting for many teenagers
>across Europe.
Are you not favouring English speaking culture over the rest by saying all
this.
>True the British and Irish would have an advantage if English was
>adopted
>as the official language of Europe but from my experience the British
>are the worst educated people in the EU and this advantage would help us
>catch up.
Sorry, but if the UK chooses to live on a social cemetery, creating unfair
concurrence to other EU countries, with as a consequence the deterioration
of their education, they should not benefit for this by choosing English as
the EU language!
>The French seem to be the most hostile to the use of English but English
>is related to French. It is the mix of French , German and Scandinavian
>language elements that make English a compromise language for Europe.
What about Dutch then?
I think this is a very English-speaking-people-minded opinion!
>I have traveled extensively around Europe and lived and worked in
>Germany( for a multinational ) and I can honestly say that I have got
>by no problem only speaking English.
I do not think that is something to be proud of.
>When I worked in Germany I used to hear a strange type of German spoken
>between local people. I found out that even today many villages or small
>regions have their own dialect referred to as -Plat Deutsch-.
>Plat Deutsch is highly regional and I was told that the Plat from one
>village my not be fully understood in the next.
>Had Germany not agreed an official form of German , which the population
>had to learn at school, the whole business of administering the country
>would have been a nightmare. This example should serve as a lesson for
>the EU.
Regional differences in languages are commonplace, haven't you got
BBC-English?
>BTW In turkey when they changed from the Arabic script to the Latin in
>the 1920's the Police would perform random tests. If you failed you went
>to prison for one day!
I'm not sure what you might mean by this?
Marc Bonnaud
> Jos Nijs wrote:
> >
>
> > Central Africa is rapidly becoming English speaking territory. The
> > second language in those areas used to be French, but English is
> > catching up rapidly. (not that I'm defending English as European lang.
> > nr 1, I'm just pointing out his 'mistake')
Nigeria, formerly English official only, is introducing French as the
second official language. You do not have the slightest clue to the
reality of Central and Western Africa : the lingua franca is French and
is there to stay, spoken there by more than 50% of the population of 30
countries which amount to 200 million people.
Marc Bonnaud
Dr. Bernd Kissler wrote:
>
> Jos Nijs wrote:
>
> > Hehehe :-) You're no different from the English guy... Btw, let's
> > see... 55 mio English ppl, 3 mio Irish, 6 mio Flemish, 15 mio Dutch,
> > 80 mio Germans, 10 mio Austrians, 4 mio Danish, 9 mio Swedish, 5 mio
> > Norwegians... that makes 187 million people speaking a Germanic
> > language in the EU. Versus 10 mio Portuguese, 40 mio Spanish, 55 mio
> > French, 50 mio Italians, 3 mio Walloons: 158 million Latinic language
> > speakers. Let me know if I forgot a country (except the special ones
> > like Finland and Greece) or if the numbers are absolutely wrong.
>
> I am sorry to say that YOU and many others don't get Quinn's point.
> Currently, European industry has to spend millions and millions alone to
> have their patent applications translated into the national languages
> when entering the so-called national phase.
> The European Patent Office proceeds patent applications in three
> official languages which likewise costs millions and millions, resources
> which, in the end, are being paid by the patent applicants.
> Europe's future being at stake. this topic cannot be discussed on such
> an emotional level and should be left to experts. This is no playground
> for adolescents.
> Dr. Bernd Kissler
> (The author, affiliated with the European Patent Office, expresses his
> personal views only)
We know your methods ; you're presently trying to ban other languages
than mickey-speak from the OEB (Office Européen de Brevets). But keep
dreamin' : in most countries only texts written in the official language
have legal value. How many millions and millions would it cost for non
mickey speakers to translate these patents ?
The real stake for Europe's future is its identity : cultural and
linguistic diversity ; this is no playground for adolescents dreaming of
an enforced dull uniform society.
Marc Bonnaud
Erotokritos Kretikos graphw :
>
> Kyrie
eleison
>
> I eulogise the archons of the Panethnic Numismatic Thesaurus
> and the Ecumenical Trapeza for the orthodoxy of their axioms, methods and
> policies, although there is an episode of cacophony of the Trapeza with HELLAS.
> With enthusiasm we dialogue and synagonise at the synods of our didymous
> organisations in wkich polymorphous economic ideas and dogmas are analysed and
> synthesised. Our critical problems such as the numismatic plethora generate
> some agony and melancholy. This phenomenon is characteristic of our epoch. But,
> to my thesis, we have the dynamism to program therapeutic practices as a
> prophylaxis from chaos and catastrophe. In parallel, a panethnic unhypocritical
> economic synergy and charmonisation in a democratic climate is basic. I
> apologize for my eccentric monologue.
> I emphasise my eucharisties to you. kyrie, to the eugenic and generous American
> ethnos and to the organisers and protagonists of its amphictiony and the
> gastronomic symposia.
> Xenophon Zolotas
> International Monentary Fund (1957)
>
Poly kala !
M. Bonnaud
Marc Bonnaud
Quin McLeod a dit :
>
>
> Judging from the follow ups and E-mail I have received it seems a
De quelle époque parlez-vous ? De celle où vos compatriotes lançaient de
méprisants "spaek white" aux Francophones ?
> My proposal is only a rational response to a situation which is
> becoming ever more acute due to the expansion of the EU. The EU
> may expand to include much of eastern Europe in the next decade
> or so.
Une réponse rationnelle serait d'utiliser la langue la plus parlée :
l'allemand. Pas de chance, tout le onde n'est pas d'accord.
> Many people Champaign the merits of using a -designed- language
> like Esperanto or reviving a dead language like Latin or even ancient
> Greek. I admit this would be the fairest approach but it is unrealistic.
> People will not bother learning such a language. Learning a language
> for most people is a very boring process. The great thing about English
> is that it is the language of glamour.
AAArgh ! Il ose dire des conneries pareilles le rustre !
> Most teenagers across Europe
> know many of the words to pop songs or key phrases in films or general
> popular culture from the US. English is exciting for many teenagers
> across Europe.
Tu parles Charles ! Dans tes rêves oui ! Allez dans une discothèque en
Italie, vous verrez quelles chansons sont reprises en choeur par les
jeunes Italiens !
> True the British and Irish would have an advantage if English was
> adopted
> as the official language of Europe but from my experience the British
> are the worst educated people in the EU and this advantage would help us
> catch up.
Commencez donc par faire l'effort d'écrire dans la langue des groupes
dans lesquels vous écrivez.
> The French seem to be the most hostile to the use of English
Nous ne sommes pas les seuls
> but English
> is related to French.
Et vice-versa donc
> I have traveled extensively around Europe and lived and worked in
> Germany( for a multinational ) and I can honestly say that I have got
> by no problem only speaking English.
Multinationale = société américaine, vous ne savez donc rien
> When I worked in Germany I used to hear a strange type of German spoken
> between local people. I found out that even today many villages or small
> regions have their own dialect referred to as -Plat Deutsch-.
Et dans "East enders" aussi ils parlent un drôle de dialecte.
> BTW In turkey when they changed from the Arabic script to the Latin in
> the 1920’s the Police would perform random tests. If you failed you went
> to prison for one day!
On voit quels sont vos exemples !
Edward Taaffe
In article <33187C...@sympatico.ca>, P Jean-dit-Bailleul <JeanDitBail
le...@sympatico.ca> writes
>Have i read we? if so you are meaning that the UK is moving to a single
>currency with Europe. I've never seen it anywhere. In fact UK is
>absolutely opposed to a single currency unit in Europe except if it is
>the pound.
name is still a single currency.
I think it woud be really interesting and revealing to have everyone
answere a few survey questions about a single currency , its reasons and
implications.
I can note speak on behalf of any party but as far as I can discern no
offical British Party is (against a single currency). Yes there are
splits and I suspect we could do with including most of them in the
survey. The official line as close as one can get to an honest answere
seens to be a, I would say warranted, concern about joning too soon a
poorly devised system, which may wil flounder on the creative accounting
of some members.
--
Edward Taaffe
Edward Taaffe
In article <01bc267b$b046e3c0$6fb630ce@r20268>, Carlos Colson
<Carlos...@glo.be> writes
>If there should be a common language chosen, it should not favour any
>language group (except the Dutch language group, since I am a member of
>that one, and we all think we are polyglots)
>
>So maybe en artificial language connecting us all would be a sollution.
>
>Bye,
issues without driving another wedge between the states.
I would also point out that creating a new culture is not part of the
remit.
Single currency yes, in a prudent manner, single language yes, as a
second language taught from childhood. Bilingualism is no burden
particularly when taught from an early age.
An even playing field for all competing businesses is also vital and
requires considerable centralized legislation.
A single defence policy and Army would be the most useful of all to stop
Europeans going to war.
But thats it inmy book. No superstate, No single culture, No Roman
Empire.
--
Edward Taaffe
Hlafen T Heffelberger
On 2 Mar 1997 13:12:46 GMT, "Carlos Colson" <Carlos...@glo.be>
wrote:
>Maybe, but why ENGLISH?
Let us be practical. The language which has the most speakers is
Mandarin Chinese. (Just over 1 billion.) The second most widely spoken
language is English. (Just under 1 billion.) That accounts for
two-fifths of the people in the world. No other language comes close.
It is harder to estimate the number of people who have English as a
second language but it is likely that more people have studied English
than have studied Chinese. This makes English the most widely spoken
language in the world.
It is also a national language in two countries of the European Union
and is understood by many people in the other countries. Further, it
is the *compulsory* language of air traffic control.
English is widely used to exchange information in the scientific
communities of the world.
Therefore English is the only choice as a pan-European language
because English is a lingua-franca.
Hlafen T Heffelberger
In article <331a13b9...@news.belwue.de>, Oliver Gassner
<fra...@fto.de> writes
>BTW Germany is the richest stae in the EU, so we will just buy
>England and Ireland and make German the main language.
>(This is a joke. :)) )
Thank you for that information.
Miguel Angel Perez
Miguel Angel Perez Gonzalez
Correo Electronico: mp...@ctv.es
Why did you choose English as common language for Europe? German is spoken in Germany,
Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Poland, Italy, France and Belgium. People in
Holland has no problem to understand it. It is widely spoken in Eastern Europe as well.
And Germany is the most populated and richest country in the European Union. Do you
really think that is so easy to change people´s mind?. Spanish is my first language, and
I am not going to tolerate to be treated as a second class citizen. We don´t have a
problem with so many languages. We have different ways to see the world. That´s our
strengh, not our trouble. Salud.
Erotokritos Kretikos
In article <331982...@francenet.fr>, Marc Bonnaud <mbon...@francenet.fr>
wrote:
>Erotokritos Kretikos graphw :
>>
>> Kyrie
>
>eleison
Eleison mas, Kyrie!
>
[...]
>Poly kala !
>
>M. Bonnaud
.... pou les, Marko, tipota den mas swzei apo tin Aggliki lailapa!
oute o Kyrios, oute to Pneuma to Agion !!!!
Erotokritos
Docktor Reality
>True the British and Irish would have an advantage if English was
Ha,ha that's why the want to be the 51st. state of the USA then they
won't look so dumb.
Carlos Colson
Hlafen T Heffelberger <h...@ohitmous.demon.co.uk> schreef in artikel
<3319c206...@news.demon.co.uk>...
so pro English. especially since they never experienced what it is if you
can't explain yourself to someone else because they do not understand your
language.
I think you all have a hard time in understanding other points of view
because you are English speaking!
I would say you don't know better then everybody understands you.
Furhtermore in .uk the need of learning an other language is not as acute
as in other countries.
So in 2 ways you will probably be biased.
But In most of the EU countries people who are intellectually able to
follow this thread are a vast minority. Not everybody is able to speak
English, but everyone would be governed in English for EU issues.
With "you" I do not mean anybody personally but most of the native English
speaking people.
bye,
c...@btinternet.com
pin0...@ping.be (Stephane Dohet) wrote:
>I think you don't really know what Esperanto is, and who speaks it.
>As a matter of fact, Esperanto is easier than English, more regular,
>learnable in a month. It is not a "natural language", and is not the
>official language of any European state.
>Choosing the Esperanto language would force the English-speakers to do
>the same than the other European citizens : learning a language,
>otrher than English.
I should think that for anyone who doesn't speak any Romance language
Esperanto would be quite difficult to learn. It's unashamedly
Latin-based.
This whole one-language thing is rubbish anyway, but if we're going to
have a single european language let's make it Scots gaelic (that would
get right up some English noses).
Carlos Colson
Miguel Angel Perez <mp...@ctv.es> schreef in artikel
<331A5C...@ctv.es>...
> Miguel Angel Perez Gonzalez
>
> Correo Electronico: mp...@ctv.es
>
> Why did you choose English as common language for Europe? German is
spoken in Germany,
> Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Poland, Italy, France and
Belgium. People in
> Holland has no problem to understand it. It is widely spoken in Eastern
Europe as well.
frightend of that people.
And will not except that language easely. You might ask your self how
differant languages found there way around the world. (Language <->
colonies)
> And Germany is the most populated and richest country in the European
Union. Do you
> really think that is so easy to change people´s mind?. Spanish is my
first language, and
> I am not going to tolerate to be treated as a second class citizen. We
don´t have a
> problem with so many languages. We have different ways to see the world.
That´s our
> strengh, not our trouble. Salud.
bye,
Carlos
tasty isn't it
pourquoi ce desire de vouloir une langue unique, le plurilanguisme
protege d'une pensée unique ou l'on tue les differences
--
---------------------------------------------------
I je me souviens d'Anne FRANK I
I I remenber Anne FRANK I
I lch...@planete.net I
--------------------------------------------------
Marc Bonnaud
Hlafen T Heffelberger scriveva :
>
> Let us be practical. The language which has the most speakers is
> Mandarin Chinese. (Just over 1 billion.) The second most widely spoken
> language is English. (Just under 1 billion.)
Nein, english wird von nur 450 millionnen Leute als Muttersprache
gesprochen (250 in den Vereigniten Staaten, 60 in Gross-Brittanien und
Irland, 20 Englisch-Kanadier, 22 in Australien und N.Z., 8 in Indien und
ungefaehr 80 in anderen Laendern)
> That accounts for
> two-fifths of the people in the world. No other language comes close.
Castellano esta hablado por 400 milliones
> It is harder to estimate the number of people who have English as a
> second language but it is likely that more people have studied English
> than have studied Chinese. This makes English the most widely spoken
> language in the world.
No esta la verdad, y tambien hay 35 miliones que hablan castellano in
los EE.UU.
De plus le Chinois-mandarin est langue véhiculaire dans toute l'Asie du
Sud
> It is also a national language in two countries of the European Union
> and is understood by many people in the other countries.
Was ? Es gibt 5 Laender in Europa wo Deutsch gesprochen wird und 6 fuer
Franzoesich (F,B,CH,I(Val d'Aoste),Monaco,Andorre)
> Therefore English is the only choice as a pan-European language
> because English is a lingua-franca.
Non ne abbiamo bisogno e se sceltiamo, non e seguro de vincere.
Jacques Guy
Marc Bonnaud wrote:
[...]
Ik heb nichts verstehen, mas Vd ha ragione quand meme.
Ate logo!
Pedro Lisboa
Hiski Haapoja wrote:
>
> OK. I nominate Finnish. Alternatively, Latin will do.
Sorry, but me and my extensive underground net of colaborators are already bringing
Danish to be the First European language. Actually, and I'm announcing this for the
first time, we are planning to implant Danish as the only worlwide language. We just
have to get some minor "cultural" nuisances out of the way...
Pedro
P.S. - For contacs on how to join our organization, please contact Morten Andersen and
Jakob Mark in Denmark (where else?!?!)
smileyme
Hey everyone, don't forget the impact that the language you choose is going
to have on the rest of the world. Everyone will have to learn it. All
over the world people have studied English; not just in Europe but in Asia,
the South Pacific, South America, etc. It's become popular over hundreds
of years, by the impact of two superpowers. English has been the
"international language," the language of trade, since the Age of
Exploration. Why all of a sudden veer in a new direction? We're this far
along the continuum; why cut it off and start a new one?
Of course you can express yourself best in your own language; after
studying foreign languages extensively, I know that I will never be able to
communicate in them the way I can at home. But if what you're concerned
about is efficiency in business and politics, you won't need to know every
idiom and nuance. You don't have to write a dissertation in it, much less
communicate all of the fine intonations that you understand in your mother
tongue. Just learn enough to communicate well and sound educated!
Europe and North America are currently the most powerful places in the
world. What happens there resonates everywhere else. If you choose to
learn Latin, Greek, any of your 11(?) languages, or something else
entirely, those two places will be split. There still won't be an
international language; there will be a European language. Sometimes North
Americans won't understand you, sometimes you won't understand them, and
the rest of the world will have to learn two languages. We'll all be
divided that much longer.
From this thread I gather that the last thing you want is to be like the
United States, but this would not be giving into that notion. It would be
working in harmony with them, not emulating them. Nations rise and fall,
but accepting the fact that they are the current superpower and going from
there would simplify things somewhat, and not just for you. What you do
will echo throughout the world.
cheers! :)
Pedro Lisboa <m...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote in article
<331A17...@mail.telepac.pt>...
Vasilios Psarras
Taking as a guide the incredible amount of debate it took to name the common
European currency, I don't think that an official EU language is anywhere near
us.
Further, and this goes to the people who advocate a common language as a way of
expediency; given the chronic inabilities of the various EU economies to grow,
EU officials should start seriously thinking about incorporating in their lists
of official languages, other non EU languages and local dialects as well. The
demand for more interpreters might put a dent in the European-wide unemployment
problem.
Regards
Vasilios Psarras
Stavros N Karageorgis
In article <01bc2794$cf549040$44375dcf@default> "smileyme" <smil...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>Hey everyone,
Hey you! Have you ever heard of 'emergent orders'? If English is the lingua
franca of Europe, and as you say the world, why the heck do we need the
UBER-state of the EU to OFFICIALLY declare it THE language of the EU? Rational
individuals will realize all those neat advantages you speak of as coming from
being able to communicate effectively in English, and they will seek to learn
it, without any single state or the UBER-state of the EU having to dictate
that they do so.
The U.S. has NO official language. Yet, if you don't know English well enough
you basically can't go very far. Think about it! Why IMPOSE something which
appears to be in most people's self-interest to do on their own?
I don't mind state/community intervention when the results of individually
rational action have individually and collectively sub-optimal outcomes . But,
in this case, nothing shows that such intervention is necessary. And, if you
can avoid it, it is probably best to keep the big armed hand of the State,
local or not, from the affairs of people.
don't forget the impact that the language you choose is going
>to have on the rest of the world. Everyone will have to learn it. All
>over the world people have studied English; not just in Europe but in Asia,
>the South Pacific, South America, etc. It's become popular over hundreds
>of years, by the impact of two superpowers. English has been the
>"international language," the language of trade, since the Age of
>Exploration. Why all of a sudden veer in a new direction? We're this far
>along the continuum; why cut it off and start a new one?
So, WE should choose to make English the OFFICIAL, IMPOSED language of the EU,
because people OUTSIDE of the EU would prefer it to be so? What kind of bogus
logic is that?
>Of course you can express yourself best in your own language; after
>studying foreign languages extensively, I know that I will never be able to
>communicate in them the way I can at home. But if what you're concerned
>about is efficiency in business and politics, you won't need to know every
>idiom and nuance. You don't have to write a dissertation in it, much less
>communicate all of the fine intonations that you understand in your mother
>tongue. Just learn enough to communicate well and sound educated!
Fine. Why do we need an official, Brussels-mandated language edict to do that?
>Europe and North America are currently the most powerful places in the
>world. What happens there resonates everywhere else. If you choose to
>learn Latin, Greek, any of your 11(?) languages, or something else
>entirely, those two places will be split. There still won't be an
>international language; there will be a European language. Sometimes North
>Americans won't understand you, sometimes you won't understand them, and
>the rest of the world will have to learn two languages. We'll all be
>divided that much longer.
Do you see how silly and patronizing your argument is? Are you claiming that
all of us citizens of the EU can't see what is in our own self-interest, and
an outsider can do it for us? Or do you think that we should sacrifice our own
self-interest for YOUR interest? What gives, smileyyou?
>From this thread I gather that the last thing you want is to be like the
>United States, but this would not be giving into that notion. It would be
>working in harmony with them, not emulating them. Nations rise and fall,
>but accepting the fact that they are the current superpower and going from
>there would simplify things somewhat, and not just for you. What you do
>will echo throughout the world.
It would be nice if what you wrote actually had SOMETHING to do with the issue
at hand, now wouldn't it?
>cheers! :)
Oh yes, I see you've been drinking. Cool! Cheers to you too!
"And so much did our city bequeath to the other peoples
in the ways of reason and speech, that her disciples did
in turn enlighten others, and the name of the Hellenes is
now considered pertinent not to race but rather to spirit,
to the point of calling Hellenes those with whom we share
education and upbringing, rather than those with whom we
share in nature."
Isocrates, Panegyricus, 50
"While every law restricts individual freedom to some extent
by altering the means which people may use in the pursuit
of their aims, under the Rule of Law the government is prevented
from stultifying individual efforts by ad hoc action. Within the
known rules of the game the individual is free to pursue
his[/her] personal ends and desires, certain that the powers of
government will not be used deliberately to frustrate his[/her] efforts."
-- Friedrich Hayek, _The Road To Serfdom_
Regards,
Stavros N. Karageorgis, C.Phil. (Sociology)
E-mail: kara...@ucla.edu
Joan Pontius
In article <5f8q2v$b...@news2.Belgium.EU.net>, Jos....@ping.be (Jos Nijs) writes:
|> >same cars. Next step, close those silly belgian beer companies
|> >who don't know how to mass produce beers so it's profitable
|> >like it should be, and replace them with a budweiser factory
|> >maybe.
|>
|> Nice thread, but, detail: Interbrew (HQ Brussels and Leuven) is the
|> world's nr 3 beer group behind Bud and Heineken. They even own LaBatt,
|> Canada's nr 1.
|>
My point exactly.
Interbrew, they're the ones who wanted to combine the recipes
of Palm and Whitebread or some 2 beers (excuse my beer ignorance)
that tasted sortof kindof similar, because it wasn't cost efficient to
make 2 different beers.
Kill them all.
|>
|> JN, Leuven
|>
--
********************************************************************
joan pontius
e-mail: jo...@ucmb.ulb.ac.be http://www.ucmb.ulb.ac.be/~joan/
*********************************************************************
Joan Pontius
In article <3318A3...@dataweb.SPAMSTOPPER.nl>, "Dr. Bernd Kissler" <beki...@dataweb.SPAMSTOPPER.nl> writes:
|> Jos,
|> I am sorry to say that YOU and many others don't get Quinn's point.
|> Currently, European industry has to spend millions and millions alone to
|> have their patent applications translated into the national languages
|> when entering the so-called national phase.
|> The European Patent Office proceeds patent applications in three
|> official languages which likewise costs millions and millions, resources
|> which, in the end, are being paid by the patent applicants.
|> Europe's future being at stake.
???
Or else what.
Europe has had multilanguages for thousands of years. And you
suddenly what to frighten us into abandoning that so that it will
be easier for you to market things.
this topic cannot be discussed on such
|> an emotional level and should be left to experts. This is no playground
|> for adolescents.
Exactly.
Go away, and take your toys with you.
Frank Specker
Quin McLeod wrote:
>
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
>
Yes svedish, or finish
regards Frank
p.s. there no reason to fraternize with the english people, because they
work against everyone ...
tex. BSE
Vasilios Psarras
On Sun, 02 Mar 1997 02:06:10 GMT, bla...@wco.com (Blaine Dixon) wrote in
article <3318de9...@news.wco.com>:
>I'm an American but my opinion is that local markets are more
>responsive to the people needs. Say if a food product that the local
>people needed could bring more money overseas the multinational
>companies will export it, leaving the local people to do without.
>As for one common language, well we tried that experiment in the USA
>with English and for a few hundred years it worked, but under
>increased immigration,and with liberal politics, well funded
>foundations and universites promotion the "politics of diversity" the
>experiment has failed.
>Now welfare applications are given out in 8 languages in California,
>all over the USA ballots are in 2 or three different languages, and
>after youve been here 15 years you can even apply and become a citizen
>without knowing a single word of English!
>But don't get on a plane and rush over here because we are going broke
>and the future looks rather bleak.
Either you are a Republican or you live in another planet :-)
Vasilios Psarras
Frank Specker
Yes, most peolple speak english, but in my opinion it愀 only a mistake
of history and we shouldn愒 push that up.
Frank
Frank Specker
John Lynch wrote:
>mainly in English.
> >By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> >the EU should be in English.
> >Food for thought??
>
> Sounds good to me, Quinnie
Not for me, why are those mails usually from UK?!
Why don´t you choose a language, with more culture in it? I don´t like
languages which only have few different words to describe feelings,
nature, impressions ...
regards Frank
Charles Lucy
Did your parents sing you this Greek lullaby
"Aide, Aide, Kimisou, Kori Mou"?
The lyrics and more information can be found at
http://www.wonderlandinorbit.com/projects/lullaby
Enjoy!
Charles Lucy
Pouvez-vous souvenir ce chanson des enfants de Haiti?
"Dodo, Maringouin Dodo"
Hlafen T Heffelberger
Oh.
Hlafen T Heffelberger
On 2 Mar 1997 23:59:41 GMT, "Carlos Colson" <Carlos...@glo.be>
wrote:
>Furhtermore in .uk the need of learning an other language is not as acute
>as in other countries.
There are eight languages spoken by natives of the UK.
In proportion these are:
1) English
2) Scots
3) Welsh
4) Scots Gaelic
5) Irish Gaelic
6) Manx
7) French
8) Cornish
With the exception of Cornish, they are all in everyday use.
Gujerati, Hindi, Urdu and other languages are also commonly spoken in
the UK.
>But In most of the EU countries people who are intellectually able to
>follow this thread are a vast minority. Not everybody is able to speak
>English, but everyone would be governed in English for EU issues.
Only a minority of people in the UK are intellectually capable of
following this thread. Believe me, I know these things.
The language of government in Britain is English but, as I have shown,
not everyone speaks it on a daily basis. Some people never speak it.
>With "you" I do not mean anybody personally but most of the native English
>speaking people.
I am not a native English speaker.
Brendan Lawlor
Jos Nijs wrote:
>
> Hey,
>
> >OK. I nominate Finnish. Alternatively, Latin will do.
>
> in most of Europe (even Britain and Ireland²). ² recent studies show
> that IRL might have been a part of the Roman Empire for a while.
>
Whhoaaaa there Nellie. Wait one potato-pickin' moment. One or two
farty little summer-houses on the Easternmost easty pointy teeeny
weeeeny part of Ireland does not make, and never made, Ireland a
part of the Roman Empire, and this particular Paddy has been trying
to convince his Italian girlfriend of that, for the last year!!
Jaaaazus, wasn't being marauded and over-run by just about every other
civilisation within a ass's roar of the island bad enough, without
having to contend with the bleeeedin Romans, and their pointy sticks
and barmpot feckin' emperors. Gerrrrouta dat garden!!!!
Anyway:
This message is by way of totally refuting the assertion that
the Oirish can speak english. Not a word of it squire. Wir
verstehen nur 'Kartoffeln'. Vive la différence. Una lingua una sega.
Agus póg mo thóin, while you're at it!
Brendan "Rant" Lawlor
PS ;-)
P Jean-dit-Bailleul
Quin McLeod wrote:
Quin McLeod wrote:
>
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
>
> If we want to create a true single market there has to be
> mobility of labor and ease of communication. For most people
> this is not a possibility because of the language differences in
> various parts of the EU.
> The EU itself is weighed down intolerably with the huge number of
> interpreters necessary to translate debates and legislation into
> the many languages used in the EU. This causes the administration
> of the EU to be slow and very expensive. No commercial business
> would run itself in such manner.
>
> The world has changed. We have to compete in a tough global
economy
> that will not look favorably on our quaint communication problems.
> The standardization of a states language was one of the most
> important things that its founders would do because they knew how
> important it was. Can we not see if such a step was necessary in
> their time, it is even more so now. Organized religion which
spanned
> many lands with many different languages have used a standard
> language for their own administration for hundreds of years.
>
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
> but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
> to be no more than an academic exercise.
>
> The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or
> less fluent in English.
>
> The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
> which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English
films.
>
> Many French people can speak English but don’t like to admit it. I
> am afraid the French have to realize that French is no longer a
> contender for the world language.
>
> The Italians , Spanish and Portuguese have the most catching up to
> do but considering how far they have come in the last 40 years it
> should not be a problem.
>
>
> The suggestion I would make would be to phase in the introduction
> of English starting with say the children of the EU who start
> school in 2003. They and all years following them would be taught
> mainly in English.
> By 2015 all Public and Professional examinations in all states of
> the EU should be in English.
>
> This is a change which will come! I believe it is better that we
> do it earlier, before Europe turns into a backwater holiday
> resort with all of the Europeans wearing their compulsory museum
> costumes.
>
> Food for thought??
>
> Quin.
>
> Constructive follow ups welcome. ( in English of course ;-) )
Judging from the follow ups and E-mail I have received it seems a
lot of people have seen my post as an attack on their culture. I
was never suggesting the banning of other languages or the sort of
chauvinistic measures which are used in Quebec
Here, in Quebec, the normal language is french (over 80 % of the
population is french speaking), but if you want to speak english you can
do it everywhere. So where is the (your?) problem? Just one example if
there one english speaking personn in a meeting and the rest of the
people are speaking french, then the meeting is in english. If there one
french speaking personn in a meeting and the rest of the people are
english speaking people the meeting is in english even if everybody are
french speaking people. That's what i don't want to see in France. The
normal language there is french and other language (english and others)
have to be used only when there is no other solution.
. I believe all
European languages should be preserved. In parts of Scotland for
example Gaelic is spoken by people every day but they can speak
English also. Thus preserving their language and having no
communication problems with the wider world.
Sorrry, but the US, AU and UK have almost different language. If they
know UK english they can talk to UK people that's all.
My proposal is only a
un-
rational response to a situation which is
becoming ever more acute due to the expansion of the EU. The EU
may expand to include much of eastern Europe in the next decade
or so.
Have you ever think why some country are specialized in some type of
works. I don't mean for work cost, but when there seems to be no
economical reasons? For example, now compagnies like MS, Borland are
seeking many french speaking people to make their programmation job.
Montréal is becoming a very important place for software developpement.
Many people are using native english people for trade... They must some
background somewhere. If people are learning foreign language to early,
they will be bilangual but they won't real native in any language.
Many people Champaign the merits of using a -designed- language
like Esperanto or reviving a dead language like Latin or even
ancient
Greek. I admit this would be the fairest approach but it is
unrealistic.
People will not bother learning such a language. Learning a language
for most people is a very boring process.
Have you ever really learn any language in your life? I'me quite sure
you did not. So it's easy for you to say everybody in the EU must learn
my language, which mean ie that you won't have to learn any language.
The great thing about English
is that it is the language of glamour. Most teenagers across Europe
know many of the words to pop songs or key phrases in films or
general
popular culture from the US. English is exciting for many teenagers
across Europe.
Most people have done it on this list, i bother to know like or love it?
For me i've really did it only a few years ago because i need it in my
job. If i've had no such need i've never learn english and most people i
know are thinking this way.
True the British and Irish would have an advantage if English was
adopted
as the official language of Europe but from my experience the
British
are the worst educated people in the EU and this advantage would
help us
catch up.
Why help people that don't want about the EU? every time there is some
sort of concensus in the EU, UK do not agree with. The only way to make
the EU stronger is to put appart UK.
So be the worst you can in school, everybody will help you, no that's
too easy.
The French seem to be the most hostile to the use of English but
English
is related to French. It is the mix of French , German and
Scandinavian
language elements that make English a compromise language for
Europe.
Well i'm not sure that so related, except for new technical term like
every language is.
I have traveled extensively around Europe and lived and worked in
Germany( for a multinational ) and I can honestly say that I have
got
by no problem only speaking English.
Why others have to speak you english. If you are in germany, normally
(from my point of view) those people have to speak their language and
you have to speak german and not english.
When I worked in Germany I used to hear a strange type of German
spoken
between local people. I found out that even today many villages or
small
regions have their own dialect referred to as -Plat Deutsch-.
Plat Deutsch is highly regional and I was told that the Plat from
one
village my not be fully understood in the next.
Had Germany not agreed an official form of German , which the
population
had to learn at school, the whole business of administering the
country
would have been a nightmare. This example should serve as a lesson
for
the EU.
You have german the one that is in books, and you some variation over
the country. Just like you have US english i books that use write words
like "or" and "are", and on he other hand you have variation that write
those words "R".
BTW In turkey when they changed from the Arabic script to the Latin
in
the 1920’s the Police would perform random tests. If you failed you
went
to prison for one day!
Bye,
aurevoir,
tschuss,
ciao,
........
Quin.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Philippe JEAN-DIT-BAILLEUL 1374 Moraud
Laval University Ste Foy, Canada, Qc G1K 7P4
Tel : (418) 656 7777 ext 11211
Email : mailto:JEANDITB...@EM.AGR.CA
Web :
http://res.agr.ca/swinenet/porcexpert/jeanditbailleulp/en/home.html
Daniel Dui
I read the thread. I still do not understand why you guys are so
concerned about what language is used within the parliament, I
personally do not care, any cost/time efficient solution will do.
The problem is that when if I want to present any kind of document,
diploma, contract or whatever, which I obtained in a certain country and
I want to present it in another country I have to translate it.
Often I need it done by an "official" translator (as I understand): this
is NOT cost/time effective.
I think people should be able to present documents in a public office
also in languages other than the official one in that country, at
present the most likely choice seems to be English.
I do not think this damages nobody's culture, I believe English should
not be used in everyday life, but people should be able to read books,
or follow a lecture in this language.
Often I needed books about programming, usually they are first published
in the US, after two years published in Italy (where I lived since few
months ago) and after two more years translated in Italian. This imply
that if I didn't know English I would have had to wait 4-5 years to get
access those informations, which in computing is like 4 or 5 centuries.
I know that for most people learning a language is very difficult, and
that they need a very good reason to take the effort, but starting at
elementary school it's a joke.
PS: I consider US engish to be standard English, not British even if
many Brits still think they are at the center of the world and won't
like it.
^^^
CIAO
Daniel
--
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Daniel Dui http://alberti.crs4.it/~dui/ |
| dd...@iee.org IRC : Caos |
+-----------P-o-w-e-r-e-d---b-y---L-I-N-U-X-----------+
Hlafen T Heffelberger
>Agus póg mo thóin, while you're at it!
Nobody's going to kiss it until you wash it, Paddy. ;-)
Michael Khan
Quin McLeod wrote:
>
> As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a
> common language and soon.
[ SNIP ]
> English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
> English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
> but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
> to be no more than an academic exercise.
[ SNIP ]
I propose that Chinese should be the official language for the EU.
Here are six compelling reasons:
1.)
Many observers contend that the importance of the Western powers,
currently dominated by anglo-saxon countries, especially the USA,
is waning. The bias of power in the world is shifting towards
East Asia. The natural leadership role in a global economy
dominated by East Asia will fall to China, also thanks to the
large Chinese minorities in most East Asian countries.
2.)
The Chinese market will evolve to become the most important
single (contiguous) market for imported goods. Knowledge of
the Chinese language (esp. the Mandarin dialect) will be of
crucial importance for commercial success in this - highly
competitive - market. Proficiency in Chinese will give the
Europeans an edge over monoglot Americans (although these
could draw upon the resources of their immigrant population)
and Japanese, who for historical reasons are unpopular in
most East Asian nations.
3.)
The success and usefulness of a language should be gauged
by its longevity. While many once dominant languages such
as Latin, Phoenician and ancient Greek have vanished from
active use, and others, such as English, are subject to a
very dynamical evolution, Chinese has been around for four
thousand years. Chinese writing has not changed dramatically
in the last two thousand years. Classical Chinese authors
can be read without too much difficulty by contemporary
Chinese.
It is therefore a safe assumption that the Chinese
language has reached a maturity that will guarantee
continuation of its usage well into the next millenium and
beyond. This cannot be said of English, which, after all
might follow French into limbo. What we are seeing now might
well be only a brief flowering of the English language before
it rapidly loses importance. Chinese, on the whole, appears
a far safer bet.
4.)
China never attacked or occupied any of the EU contries,
nor did she hold any EU territory at any time in written
history. There will therefore be no grudge held against
the Chinese language, for purely historical reasons, in any
EU country, or even any aspiring EU country. Note that this
point precludes usage of almost all European language, as
all of Europe's peoples were at some point in history warring
against neighboring nations.
5.)
Chinese is spoken by a very low percentage of the population
in all European countries. The Chinese language is not closely
related to any European language. Therefore, no European
ethnic entity could be seen as possessing an unfair advantage
over others, which would give it a competitive edge.
6.)
Learning Chinese ideographs is extremely time-consuming and
excruciatingly difficult. Therefore, European teenagers would
have to devote more time to their studies and consequently have
less free time on their hands to put to idle use, such as
spraying graffiti, petty crime, drug consumption and such.
Therefore, compulsory learning of Chinese would lead to cleaner
and safer inner cities and contribute to solving the drug problem.
-----
I believe that the stated points are so compelling that we can
now safely terminate this thread and move on to more important
things, namely, the introduction of the Chinese language in
all venues of life in the European Union.
Michael
P.S.: Before flaming me, please give some thought as to whether
I'm really serious, huh? Might save you all some time and help to
keep the blood pressure down...
Guenter A. Scholz
In article <sFCSCCAN...@ldta.demon.co.uk>,
John Lynch <jly...@ldta.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <331a13b9...@news.belwue.de>, Oliver Gassner
><fra...@fto.de> writes
>>You are kidding?
>>
>>
>>BTW Germany is the richest stae in the EU, so we will just buy
>>England and Ireland and make German the main language.
>>
>>(This is a joke. :)) )
>
>Yes, indeed. A German joke. Why have you Germans never understood that
>jokes should be funny?
>--
john, maybe it is funny depending on the point of view. From your
side, well....
gs
Angelos
In article <331A08...@francenet.fr>,
>> because English is a lingua-franca.
Don't know who wrote this, but it is at best a tru sophistry of Torry(an)
proportions.
I'd vote for spanish , although I am greek , and obviously I speak
english. There is only one reason to speak spanish , to communicate with some
of the most beautiful women of the world. All else is garbage
--
--
Angelos Karageorgiou ang...@incredible.com
*net thamataurge extraordinaire
Carlos Suarez
Dear Mr. Macleod,
I couldn't agree more with your posting concerning the
importance of a common language for the European Union. I am an American
fluent in 5 languages which runs contrary to the European stereotype
that Americans are incapable of learning other languages. However to
return to your main point, much as I may agree that English should become
the official medium of communication, I believe that the opposition of the
French a key member of the EU on such a project would bring its wheels to
a screeching halt.
What I propose may seem as impossible as preposterous, but
I see no other option, that is if the Europeans really wish to agree on a
common tongue. Why not revive the use of, LATIN? You may laugh or may give
this some serious consideration. Think of this, a new modernized version
of the language akin to say the creation of Modern Hebrew, revived after
nearly 2000 years of dormancy, would be the path to follow. With the
creation of the state of Israel, the need for a common national language
became imperative. Jews from all over the globe emigrated to Israel
bringing with them their customs as well as the languages of their
national origin. The implementation and success of Hebrew speaks for
itself.
For some it may seem a step backwards, to a time long gone,
somewhat mediaeval and murky. But do you think it is impossible? Latin is
already alive in different ways in all of the major languages of
Europe (English,French,Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and even German not to
mention that it is also the foundation of Romanian). Obviously some are
closer to Latin than others, but that concerns a linguistics debate which
is way beyond the scope of this posting, or my competence.
As you very well know Latin inscriptions are all over Europe
covering the walls of many government buildings, churches, place names
etc.
This proposal may seem quite simplistic, but how feasible do
you think this is? Perhaps it is inevitable that English become the
official tongue of the EU, it is after all the global lingua franca,
whether or not some people agree or are content with the status-quo.
I would appreciate your comment.
Kind regards,
Carlos Suarez
NYC, USA
Manny Freitas
Quin McLeod (Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
: more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
: time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
: common language and soon.
: [...]
: English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
: [...]
Ahahahahah!!! What a joke.
You inteligence-deprived, english speaking people are the serious obstacle.
Have you noticed that everyone else is smart and inteligent enough
to learn other languages, except, who else but the english speaking
people. Why don't you learn to communicate in other than the english
language so we can all be at the same level?
I don't seem to have a problem in communicating with just about everyone
in Europe. Neither do most educated Europeans. But according to your words,
you seem to have that problem.
This is a clear example how the english speaking people are the true
obstacle, as you put it.
- Manuel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manuel Freitas
Network Services Operations
BBN Corporation/ 150 Cambridge Park Drive, Cambridge, MA 02140
mfre...@bbnplanet.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joan Pontius
In article <331AEF...@iee.org>, Daniel Dui <dd...@iee.org> writes:
|> The problem is that when if I want to present any kind of document,
|> diploma, contract or whatever, which I obtained in a certain country and
|> I want to present it in another country I have to translate it.
|> Often I need it done by an "official" translator (as I understand): this
|> is NOT cost/time effective.
|>
Aren't you assuming that it *IS* cost/time effective for you
to be moving country to country in the first place?
Matthieu Quignard
I see one reason for *not* choosing english as common language : if
we accept it, we surely lose the metric system !
I think, for cultural reason and a better comprehension between
people, it is better to keep no common language to motivate people
to learn foreign languages, especially english native speakers.
Practical reasons for learning english cannot be good arguments for
choosing it as common "european" language. Language reflects cultural
history : there is no ground for having one language, since there are
several cultures...
One Europe One Language, is that a Joke ?
--
Matthieu QUIGNARD
Martin Hanna
On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Matthieu Quignard wrote:
> I see one reason for *not* choosing english as common language : if
> we accept it, we surely lose the metric system !
Eh? But it's being lost anyway (phased out). And anyway..look at the US.
One language and strictly imperial. No Metric.
Martin.
Serafim Miguel Guimarães
Please address your answers to this interesting thread to all NG in the
list. Every European should have an opinion about this...
I'm sorry but I don't agree.
EU is NOT a natural creation, because we have nothing in common except the
need of becoming more powerful when compared to the States or Japan. We
have no other choice, so I agree to belong to the EU AS LONG AS MY
NATIONALITY REMAINS AS IT IS. I'm very proud of my history.
Each person communicates best in his/her mother tongue, so the ideal
situation would be having people expressing themselves in their mother
tongue and understanding every other (although they don't speak them), so
when a Dannish would ask something to a Portuguese, he'd do it in Danish.
The Portuguese would understand the question and would answer in
Portuguese, and he would be understood by the Dannish.
I feel at ease about this subject because I can speak English, French,
Spanish and, of course Portuguese, and I understand Italian, although I
don't speak. I'll try to understand German when I have time. But I will
never give up teaching my children the Portuguese as their mother tongue, a
language that carries a history of almost 900 years which are not to be
dropped out just because other citizens of this artificial space think
they're better than me and their citizenship is more important than mine.
Spanniards, French, Greeks, and the others have also their traditions,
which we all must respect, and you can't pretend they don't exist, you
cannot want that they just disappear from their lives!...
I have no problem in speaking English, as you can read, but I'll never
accept that to become my daily language. I'll speak English whenever it is
necessary.
I also don't like that attitude that you, british, take thinking that
everyone MUST be like you, that you're the best, that everyone as to learn
from you. It is disguised form of laziness, dressed as colonialism. (very
typical of the British...). This is how racism and xenophoby begins!...
Have you noticed that you forgot the Greek? How can you even think of an
Union if you forget one of the members in your first message? Who will you
forget next time? I guess every country you consider "less important".
As a matter of fact I feel superior to you because I speak your language
and you don't speak mine, and that's why I give you this bonus: a chance to
understand what I want to tell you.
Besides, EU as more important problems to solve than language...
Serafim
Porto, Portugal
Quin McLeod <Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<331719...@aveon.demon.co.uk>...
It is imperative that we decide on a common language and soon.
English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU.
English in the most widely understood language not only in Europe
but in the world. Synthetic languages like Esperanto have proven
to be no more than an academic exercise.
The British, Irish, Dutch and Scandinavians are already more or
less fluent in English.
The Germans and Austrians are good but need to practice more,
which is a reason why they should stop dubbing their English films.
Many French people can speak English but don’t like to admit it. I
am afraid the French have to realize that French is no longer a
contender for the world language.
The Italians , Spanish and Portuguese have the most catching up to
do but considering how far they have come in the last 40 years it
should not be a problem.
----------
Joan Pontius
>EU is NOT a natural creation, because we have nothing in common except the
>need of becoming more powerful when compared to the States or Japan. We
>have no other choice, so I agree to belong to the EU AS LONG AS MY
"Need to become more powerful"? No other choice? Since when?
Is Europe so terrible as it is? Why do you want to be like the States
and Japan, and do you honestly think that unity will move things
in that direction?!?
Have you seen the legistlation that goes through the EC?
Have you heard the giant sucking noise of the monies that goes
through the EU as they spend your tax on their favorite programs?
Not to mention their exorbinant(sp?) salaries, and cocktail parties,
but do you need high-density television for example? I don't even
have a tv, why should my tax go to subsidizing development of
more of them.
There is no need.
c...@btinternet.com
"Carlos Colson" <Carlos...@glo.be> wrote:
>Very nice, and the whole thread is in English to. But why are people of .uk
>so pro English. especially since they never experienced what it is if you
>can't explain yourself to someone else because they do not understand your
>language.
Let's be clear on this one - it's not "people of uk" - some of us
don't have much brief for English.
>I think you all have a hard time in understanding other points of view
>because you are English speaking!
Not when we can help it, we aren't. But if we wrote here in gaelic or
welsh instead of English there's few people would understand it.
>I would say you don't know better then everybody understands you.
>Furhtermore in .uk the need of learning an other language is not as acute
>as in other countries.
Quite a lot of people in the UK are bilingual, having had to learn
English as a second language. It really is tiring to see again and
again you belgians assuming we are all English in the UK It's as bad
as if I asumed a belgian couldn't understand a word like "uitgang"
because all belgians say "sortie".
c...@btinternet.com
gric...@ionet.net (Gordon L. Richard) wrote:
>Perhaps this should be regarded in the light of the fact that what ever
>language becomes the de facto standard world-wide, it won't be the same as
>any present day language. English today is not the same as it was in King
>Arthur's court (thank God).
Ye Gods and Little Fishes! The sheer arrogance of the Anglophone
certainly shows through here. King Arthur's court presumably spoke a
celtic language and latin. It most certainly didn't speak English (or
any other Germanic language) - - the Arthur legends are about the King
who tried to keep you barbarians out of the ancient celtic lands that
you Sasunnach have now taken over and named after your own
pig-gruntings.
ser...@hotmail.com
>> because English is a lingua-franca.
>
>Non ne abbiamo bisogno e se sceltiamo, non e seguro de vincere.
Greek is the oldest european language and many words are already used
in all the other ones , so everybody Ellenika is the answer .
Jacques Rouillard
Marc Bonnaud sub patulae recubans, dixit:
> Timeo Britannos et dona ferentes. Delenda est Britannia.
De Virgile a Caton (l'ancien, evidemment :) ). A propos, c'etait bien Laocon(?)
ou etait-ce Cassandre qui avait cette malediction de voir l'avenir et de n'etre
jamais cru(e)? Vous revez de chevaux de bois?
--
Jacques Rouillard tel: 33(0)491054342 fax: 33(0)491700659
email: roui...@acm.org W3: http://ismea.imt-mrs.fr/~rouillar
--------------------------------------------------------------------
VOUS POUVEZ MAINTENANT PASSER AU MESSAGE SUIVANT EN TOUTE SECURITE
Marc Bonnaud
Carlos Suarez :
>What I propose may seem as impossible as preposterous, but
> I see no other option, that is if the Europeans really wish to agree on a
> common tongue. Why not revive the use of, LATIN?
Hoc illud est.
> you think this is? Perhaps it is inevitable that English become the
> official tongue of the EU,
Timeo Britannos et dona ferentes. Delenda est Britannia.
Marcus
Peter J Lusby
Marc Bonnaud wrote:
>
> Hlafen T Heffelberger scriveva :
> >
> > Let us be practical. The language which has the most speakers is
> > Mandarin Chinese. (Just over 1 billion.) The second most widely spoken
> > language is English. (Just under 1 billion.)
>
> Nein, english wird von nur 450 millionnen Leute als Muttersprache
> gesprochen (250 in den Vereigniten Staaten, 60 in Gross-Brittanien und
> Irland, 20 Englisch-Kanadier, 22 in Australien und N.Z., 8 in Indien und
> ungefaehr 80 in anderen Laendern)
>
> > That accounts for
> > two-fifths of the people in the world. No other language comes close.
>
> Castellano esta hablado por 400 milliones
>
> > It is harder to estimate the number of people who have English as a
> > second language but it is likely that more people have studied English
> > than have studied Chinese. This makes English the most widely spoken
> > language in the world.
>
> No esta la verdad, y tambien hay 35 miliones que hablan castellano in
> los EE.UU.
> De plus le Chinois-mandarin est langue véhiculaire dans toute l'Asie du
> Sud
>
> > It is also a national language in two countries of the European Union
> > and is understood by many people in the other countries.
>
> Was ? Es gibt 5 Laender in Europa wo Deutsch gesprochen wird und 6 fuer
> Franzoesich (F,B,CH,I(Val d'Aoste),Monaco,Andorre)
Wirklich? Bist du bestimmt? Sur les 15 pays que comporte l'UE, il-y-en
a onze qui parlent soit le français, soit l'allemand? Et on a déja
constaté qu'il y en a deux qui sont anglophones, donc l'italien,
l'espanol, le grec, le danois, etc, ça existe pas? Oh, excuse me, I see
you included some paragraphs in Spanish and Italian, so you must only be
discounting the Scandinavian and Celtic languages, plus Portugese,
Dutch, Walloon, Flemish and Greek.
Pusique tu sembles avoir quelques problemes de compréhension de
l'anglais, je continue en français. On parlait des langues officielles
des pays de la Communauté Européenne, et non de toutes les petits
patois des tous les petits bléds paumés du continent. Si t'es pas
capable de suivre la conversation, mieux vaut s'abstenir d'essayer d'y
participer.
Ceci étant dit, j'avoue, moi, que je préfère que l'on garde les langes
comme elles sont. Plutôt éliminer le Marché Commun que sa variété de
parlers. Mais je suis partisan. Je me débrouille assez bien en
français, et j'arrive a lire l'allemand, l'espagnol, le flamand et le
néerlandais, et même un peu d'italien, alors je me sent pas trop paumé,
où que je me trouves en europe. Peu sont les gens qui puissent en dire
autant, et ce ne serait pas une trop mauvaise idée de se fixer sur une
seul langue officiel pour la CE, qu'elle soit latin, grec ou même
occitanie!
Au fait, comment dit-on "troll" dans votre langue, chers lecteurs?
Quin McLeod
Manny Freitas wrote:
>
> Quin McLeod (Q.Mc...@aveon.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : As we, in the EU, move towards a single currency and draw ever
> : more close on political , legal and commercial matters is it not
> : time we began a serious discussion on the main obstacle on our
> : route to a Federal Europe? It is imperative that we decide on a =
> : common language and soon.
> : [...]
>
> : English is the logical choice for the official language of the EU. =
> : [...]
>
> Ahahahahah!!! What a joke.
> You inteligence-deprived, english speaking people are the serious obstacle.
> Have you noticed that everyone else is smart and inteligent enough
> to learn other languages, except, who else but the english speaking
> people. Why don't you learn to communicate in other than the english
> language so we can all be at the same level?
> I don't seem to have a problem in communicating with just about everyone
> in Europe. Neither do most educated Europeans. But according to your words,
> you seem to have that problem.
Fantasticno!
netko moze govoriti i razumijeti moj jezik. Ja sam uvijek
mislio
da samo mali broj ljudi govori i razumije moj jezik izvan moje zemlje.
Veselim
se da mogu izmnjenivati kojekakova politicka, ekonomska i druga
misljenja s
drugim ljudima u Europi na mojem maticnom jeziku.
Quin.
ltheod...@vmsvax.simmons.edu
I am very disturbed by reading your posting. Let me explain why:
1. You Sir, have taken for granted the fact that English is the language
that will prevail over all others in Modern Europe.
2. Your views although elonquently expressed, fail to convince me. Why
should everyone accept that english will be the predominant language of
the future? Why should it be compulsory?
3. In your european-countries-list, you failed to mentioned one or two
others. What about those? How do you rate them Sir? Furthermore, why
should I give a damn?
You sound just like your colonising, slave-driving
ancestors. England , and America, dodn't get me wrong, have long been
imposing their culture onto other countries on the world, countries that
are too poor oror that lack the recources to act against collonialists.
Well, Europe is neither weak nor poor, and believe you me, unless you -at
least- change the way you phrase your opinions, you will soon be
receiving more flame over the internet then you can possibly handle. You
have already received some, and I am quite happy to contribute to the
list.
Next time, think again before you serve us food for thought that
is as tasteless and awful as your coutry's infamous cuisine.
L.T.
ee
Dear Mr. Suarez,
I take your idea as a metaphor. A nice one.
The Jewish people had, at the time you speak about, more in line with a
common language than nowadays
Europeans. These ideas, to have a common language, seem heretic for too
many individuals to be really
considered. First of all, Europe must pass the test of the common
currency, and they still do not know
how it will look like. Then they have the test of East-Europe
integration. And so on...
Of course, one can argue that a common language would be a better
liaison (sic)among Europeans, and more
efficiency would be assured. I think that those people who would be
advantaged by a common language already
speak the same language. But there are also people who would pay many in
order to preserve their language.
Moreover, there are (English speaking) countries that do not have yet
adopted the international metric system and there is little hope they
will do so.
Regards,
ee (EastEuropean).
Carlos Suarez wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Macleod,
>
> I couldn't agree more with your posting concerning the
> importance of a common language for the European Union. I am an > American
---------------------8<------------------------
Wally Jansen
In <331B39...@alt.dev.null> Peter J Lusby <plu...@alt.dev.null> writes:
>
>Marc Bonnaud wrote:
>>
>> Hlafen T Heffelberger scriveva :
>> >
>> > Let us be practical. The language which has the most speakers is
>> > Mandarin Chinese. (Just over 1 billion.) The second most widely spoken
>> > language is English. (Just under 1 billion.)
>>
>> Nein, english wird von nur 450 millionnen Leute als Muttersprache
>> gesprochen (250 in den Vereigniten Staaten, 60 in Gross-Brittanien und
>> Irland, 20 Englisch-Kanadier, 22 in Australien und N.Z., 8 in Indien und
>> ungefaehr 80 in anderen Laendern)
>>
>> > That accounts for
>> > two-fifths of the people in the world. No other language comes close.
>>
>> Castellano esta hablado por 400 milliones
>>
>> > It is harder to estimate the number of people who have English as a
>> > second language but it is likely that more people have studied English
>> > than have studied Chinese. This makes English the most widely spoken
>> > language in the world.
>>
>> No esta la verdad, y tambien hay 35 miliones que hablan castellano in
>> los EE.UU.
400+35 <<<<<<< 1000
>> De plus le Chinois-mandarin est langue véhiculaire dans toute l'Asie du
>> Sud
Apres l'anglais.
Kabouter! From "Drinkt louter Kabouter!" 8)
-Wally
PS You can contact me if you want/need an explanation.....
Rob Barends
In article <E6GqE...@cix.compulink.co.uk>, cl...@cix.compulink.co.uk
says...
>
>
>Did your parents sing you this Greek lullaby
>
>"Aide, Aide, Kimisou, Kori Mou"?
Oh yeah, they always sang that one while inserting the rectal
thermometer!
>Enjoy!
Thanks,
Rob (shivering)
Edward Taaffe
In article <331AFF...@ens-lyon.fr>, Matthieu Quignard <mquignar@ens-
lyon.fr> writes
>I see one reason for *not* choosing english as common language : if
>we accept it, we surely lose the metric system !
>
>people, it is better to keep no common language to motivate people
>to learn foreign languages, especially english native speakers.
>
>Practical reasons for learning english cannot be good arguments for
>choosing it as common "european" language. Language reflects cultural
>history : there is no ground for having one language, since there are
>several cultures...
>
>One Europe One Language, is that a Joke ?
effective barrier against all of Europe congregating in one enormous
connurbation somewhere near Brussels, to the detriment of the remaining
countries.
In a federal Europe this is bound to become a problem unless some
measures are enforced to stop it.
--
Edward Taaffe
Sylvain Louboutin
Jacques Rouillard <roui...@acm.org> writes:
>Marc Bonnaud sub patulae recubans, dixit:
>> Timeo Britannos et dona ferentes. Delenda est Britannia.
>De Virgile a Caton (l'ancien, evidemment :) ).A propos, c'etait bien Laocon(?)
>ou etait-ce Cassandre qui avait cette malediction de voirl'avenir et de n'etre
>jamais cru(e)? Vous revez de chevaux de bois?
...dulce est desipere in loco
n'en voulons donc pas a Marc.
et passons a autre chose, sinon les proselytes es esperanto vont pas
manquer de rapliquer.
--Sylvain
--
%% Sylvain....@dsg.cs.tcd.ie http://www.dsg.cs.tcd.ie/~sloubtin/
%% Distributed Systems Group, (O'Reilly Institute, room F.35)
%% Department of Computer Science, phone: (+353-88) 527790
%% Trinity College, Dublin 2, -Ireland- fax: (+353-1) 6772204