Sign Peter Colijn's petition for allowing bikes on the 280 between Hayne and Bunker Hill!

[Lina Mårtensson]

Since the dam construction will never ever finish, Peter made a petition that you should all sign:

https://www.change.org/p/california-department-of-transportation-allow-bicycles-on-i-280-between-hayne-road-and-bunker-hill-drive

(Peter already sent this in a different thread, but I'm resending in a new thread in case people missed his email deep down in the other thread)

[Peter Colijn]

Thanks, Lina!

Yes, please sign. And Pat (aka 'hogorni', not sure of your full name whoever you are!) had some interesting suggestions about a meeting that is happening soon that I may try to follow...

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[Lina Mårtensson]

Can you give us more info about this meeting? That sounds interesting.

Also, perhaps some data from Strava could be useful to persuade. How long does it take to do the detour vs the normal route? (vs 280? not that we'd have any way of knowing that... ;) How many people ride here? (Then take into account that not everyone uploads their rides to Strava, some people simply don't ride here at all because of the close, etc...)

I'll leave that up to someone who actually uses Strava, unlike me. Is it possible to get average times (as opposed to everyone's PRs)?

-Lina

[Rob]

my median time on the skyline dam detour segment is 12:40 (18.7 mph)

https://www.strava.com/segments/633431

this segment doesn't include the 2ish minute descent from 280 to the dam.

i've only done the 280 flyover once and got stopped by the chp so no idea how long that takes. i wasn't on strava when the dam was open and don't remember what my times were.

[Rob]

from 280 to SCT my median time is 2:05 

https://www.strava.com/segments/621626

so a reasonable time for me used to be 14:45 from 280 to the bike path on canada. this year it's been more like 17:45.

[Peter Colijn]

I'm usually around 13 minutes from the end of SCT to Canada, and yeah about 2 minutes down from 280 to SCT. But I think the point is to convince them that the detour takes forever, not "only" 15 minutes.. so we should gather moar data :)

[Lina Mårtensson]

I'm surprised! It certainly feels like forever. :)

[Lina Mårtensson]

How many more joules? ;)

[Ben Breslauer]

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Peter Colijn <caff...@colijn.ca> wrote:

I'm usually around 13 minutes from the end of SCT to Canada, and yeah about 2 minutes down from 280 to SCT. But I think the point is to convince them that the detour takes forever, not "only" 15 minutes.. so we should gather moar data :)

Ooh, something us slowpokes are good for :)  My average is around 25 minutes. That may or may not include a stop at the top of Polhemus, I'm not sure how Strava handles that.

[Rob]

the one time i did the flyover it was 27:40 from 280 to the bike path on canada. this includes a 16 minute stop to get a ticket at the end of the 280 so I think that 11:40 is realistic and perhaps on the slower side. Comparing my current 17:45 for the detour 280 flyover wins by 6 minutes and the flyover would save Ben around 13 minutes.

[ammon]

I have 20 rides in Strava over the old dam. From a random sampling, typical time from end of SCT to the bike path on Cañada was 8 mins:

https://www.strava.com/activities/201502

https://www.strava.com/activities/75360

https://www.strava.com/activities/209501

The detour takes me about 14-15 mins depending on enthusiasm.

Allowing 280 access would put more riders on the watershed's next little trail project at the north end of Cañada. See the map in this article from yesterday: http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-county-times/ci_27500181/big-change-public-access-proposed-peninsula-watershed

Supposedly there's to be a watershed public hearing soon, date TBD: http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/better-access-coming-sf-watershed-public-hearing-soon-948940.html

Ammon

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 4:49:21 PM UTC-8, Lina Martensson wrote:

[hogorni]

Good research....but this is something that should be taken to the SF Board of Supervisors and the SFMTA-BPAC because they complete the circle with the SFPUC which owns the watershed and is responsible for the project.  Caltrans is only responsible for the roadbed--Hwy 35.  City and County of SM have no responsibility other than providing detour.
pat

[hogorni]

Not sure who's asking, but I am hogorni...Pat Giorni...not a member of SF2G.  I do the bicycle count for Burlingame on Old Bayshore/Airport periodically; I do the monthly Caltrain Bike Bump count;I've had my fingers and fists in advocacy for more than 12 years on the Peninsula; for what it's worth, Murph can vouch for me.
--There are so many:  to which meeting are you indicating interest? 

pat

[Jeffrey Skokan]

Pat,  You're wrong.  I believe all of us will agree that you are a Member; if not, at least an Honorary Member of our little group.

[Lina Mårtensson]

I just posted this to mission cycling, roadie scum, and superpro as well.

Please spread it to other groups that may care as well!

-Lina

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Lina Mårtensson <lina.ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

[James Nishimuta]

I'm in decent shape but certainly not among the more regulars of the group.  My average time for the Skyline Dam Detour is 17:24.  There is also a elevation gain difference between the two routes due to the Crystal Springs decent, 392ft gain on the detour.. I'm actually really surprised it's not more than that. Since the flyover is elevated, it would have even less elevation gain than going over the dam. Perhaps someone can record some GPS tracks while driving over the 280 bridge to determine the elevation gain for the flyover (unless someone already has Strava ride on the overpass.. *ahem*)

[Peter Colijn]

Thanks Pat, I know I have seen your posts on the list before and the bicycle count stuff, just didn't have your full name.

The meeting I was referring to was the one you mentioned in another thread: D4BAC (district 4 bicycle advisory committee). Do you think it makes sense to try to get on the agenda for that?

[ammon]

On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 9:48:51 PM UTC-8, ammon wrote:

Supposedly there's to be a watershed public hearing soon, date TBD: http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/better-access-coming-sf-watershed-public-hearing-soon-948940.html

A dose of realism on opening the watershed: https://rayhosler.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/been-there-done-that-san-francisco-watershed-inches-closer-to-public-access/ 

Ammon

[Dan Yang (Millbrae-San Jose)]

I looked at the shoulder between Bunker Hill and Hayne while going north bound today. The shoulder on 280 seems wide enough, except at the Hayne off ramp and the rest stop off ramp. Oh, how would it work at the rest stop? Safer thing seems to be exit to the rest stop and onto 280 again on the other side. Better than crossing the off ramp. And you have deal with parking lot traffic.

[Rob]

think that this is just about going south. it is a straight shot from the exits mentioned (hillsbourgh rollers end to bunker hill) -- no rest stop.

[Rob]

I created a couple segments from Hayne @ 280 to the bike path at Cañada. To get the elevation gain it seems you need to look at the segment for a given ride.

detour is 5.3 miles with 523 ft of climbing.

https://www.strava.com/activities/114543408/segments/6028612020

highway is 3.6 miles with 164 ft of climbing.

https://www.strava.com/activities/244989005/segments/6028546641

[djconnel]

If speed on the road is 30 kph, and there is an additional climbing penalty @ 1 second / 1000 meters (fairly arbitrary numbers), I get a time difference of 5 min 28 sec.

[Cordelia Link]

My time difference is about 10m based on PRs, though I'm not sure about the accuracy of my detour times since I usually hang out at the end of Crystal Springs for a few minutes.

[John Murphy]

The argument is "the hill is hard enough that overall, 15 percent fewer commute rides happen, shifting riders into cars on 280"

John Murphy - ta...@murphstahoe.com

[hogorni]

All,

I've just received a reply from Beth Thomas who will work to get the Damn Dam Discussion on the agenda for the Caltrans D-4 BAC on
 " Wednesday, April 15 from 1:30 to 3:30. As always, it will be in the District 4 building at 111 Grand Avenue, Oakland. The room number at this point is 230 on the 15^th floor. I’m copying here Gary Helfrich of the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition, who is the current District 4 BAC Chair. He will be the one to approve the agenda that I’ll develop with him."

So if any of you know Gary, perhaps you'll want to nudge him, (eh, Murphy, newest member of the Sonoma Bike Coalition?).

pat

[Peter Colijn]

Thanks Pat!

Do you know anything about the format of this meeting? Is it the kind of thing where public comment is allowed?

[pat giorni]

District 4 Bicycle Advisory Committee

				District 4 Bicycle Advisory Committee District 4 Bicycle Advisory Committee (D4BAC) Formed in 1993, the primary mission of the D4BAC is to increase the number of bicycle and walking project...
				View on www.dot.ca.gov	Preview by Yahoo

  I was the secretary who did the minutes for 4 years....

There are 5 minutes given to public comment at the beginning of the meeting; but if the damn Dam is on the agenda, then simply identify yourself and reserve the right to make your comment when the item is addressed.  You can "attend" by telephone, but would have slim ability to comment....far better to show up in Oakland.  The membership is by no means intimidating; mostly bike coalition executive directors, and bike sympathetic county public works representatives, an occasional member of the public...perhaps I'll skulk out of my cave to make an appearance.  Get off BART @ 19th, bike 4 blocks to Grand; turn Right and it's 2 blocks away

pat

[John Murphy]

There is a Rosamunde a few blocks away for post meeting "discussion"

John Murphy - ta...@murphstahoe.com

[Nathan Dushman]

This is close enough to my office that I might be able to attend, but someone should poke me about it closer to the actual date.

Nathan

[hogorni]

Was this meeting held (Caltrans D-4 BAC on " Wednesday, April 15 from 1:30 to 3:30. As always, it will be in the District 4 building at 111 Grand Avenue, Oakland) as I've had word from no one about the status of a resolution.  There was no notice or update on the Caltrans Bike page either.  Did anyone attend?

pat

[Peter Colijn]

I don't think anybody went. I find it difficult to make it to meetings / hearings / etc. during weekday hours.

Did the topic actually get on the agenda?

[Nathan Dushman]

Sorry, didn't put this on my calendar and totally forgot about it, I mistakenly figured I'd see a reminder here about it. If there's another one and someone makes sure I put it on my schedule, I could go, I'm only 2 miles or so from the District 4 office.

Nathan

[John Murphy]

You can all feel free to mention it to the D4 Caltrans Bike Rep Gary Helfrich at the beer tent at the Wine Country Century this Saturday, in Santa Rosa, where there will be Lagunitas Beer. :)

 

 

On Thu, Apr 30, 2015, at 01:04 PM, Nathan Dushman wrote:

Sorry, didn't put this on my calendar and totally forgot about it, I mistakenly figured I'd see a reminder here about it. If there's another one and someone makes sure I put it on my schedule, I could go, I'm only 2 miles or so from the District 4 office.

 

Nathan

 

[Peter Colijn]

Sweet, point him out to me please :)

[hogorni]

Sooooo......any progress to report after this weekend's event; or should I now ask Caltrans thru Beth Thomas?

pat

[hogorni]

This just in, and I'll post the agenda as soon as it's released...

Caltrans District 4 Bicycle Advisory Committee (BAC) Members and Interest List,

 

The next District 4 BAC meeting is scheduled for Wednesday, May 13, from 1:30 to 3:30 in Room 230 on the 15^th Floor of the Caltrans offices at 111 grand Avenue in Oakland. Meetings are open to the public. The agenda will be sent to this list as soon as it is ready and is expected to go out by this Friday.

 

Thank you,

 

Beth Thomas, AICP

Pedestrian & Bicycle Planning/Coordination Branch Chief

Caltrans District 4

510-286-7227

Caltrans' Mission: "to provide a safe, sustainable, integrated and efficient transportation system to enhance California’s economy and livability."

[Peter Colijn]

Thanks!

Unfortunately...... :( This is the same day a bunch of us are planning to ride Mount Hamilton (and have been planning it for a while...)

That means I can't make it. Can anyone else?

[Lina Mårtensson]

Why do they have a meeting in Oakland for something that's relevant for people in SF and the Peninsula? :(

I can work from home and go to a meeting at City Hall, but going to Oakland would take a considerably larger chunk out of my workday.

-Lina

[Peter Colijn]

Paging Nathan Dushman. Last time he said this was close to his work (or at least somewhat convenient)...

[Nathan Dushman]

Added it as an appointment on my calendar. I have no idea how these meetings go, and I haven't ridden Skyline in months, but I'll ask questions and see what I can find out.

Wish I was able to do Mt Hamilton with you all, though. That sounds like more fun.

Nathan

[Lina Mårtensson]

Is there anyone we can email to get our voices heard in lieu of actually making it to Oakland?

[Nathan Dushman]

On Thu, May 07, 2015 at 10:51:23AM -0700, Peter Colijn wrote:
> Paging Nathan Dushman. Last time he said this was close to his work (or at
> least somewhat convenient)...

Google maps says 3 miles from my office. I think I can bike that far ;)

> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Lina Mårtensson <lina.ma...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Why do they have a meeting in Oakland for something that's relevant for
> > people in SF and the Peninsula? :(

Caltrans District 4 covers the entire Bay Area (not sure of the exact
limits). They operate the bike shuttle that I use frequently. Maybe this
meeting will have updates on the Bay (and Richmond/San Rafael) Bridge bike
paths, both of which will give me some fun new commute options.

Nathan

[hogorni]

Crystal Springs-Hwy 35 is NOT on the agenda.  See Attachment.  My suggestion is that as many as possible use the Conference Call to bring up the subject.  Phone in about 10 min before the meeting starts.  They will ask you to identify yourself.  Give your name and identify yourself as a member of the public and state that you want to make public comment at Item 3. A lot of calls will put them on notice that this is an important discussion.  However it is important that a live person is in the room to bring this up at Public Comment, Nathan, Murph.  If they indicate that they will discuss it then stay at the meeting, and stay on the conference call.  Otherwise you are free to leave.  But someone be sure to mention the petition and send a copy to Beth Thomas in time for the meeting.

[hogorni]

Why am I reading  about the Damn dam in Mr. Roadshow? http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_28079977/roadshow-two-more-years-work-at-crystal-springs
 I think we should write letters asap <beth....@dot.ca.gov> before Wednesday's meeting. If nothing else, I'm asking for a 14/7 shuttle if they won't give freeway access.  And if you can't personally attend, use the phone bridge:
 May 13, 2015
1:30 – 3:30 PM
Conference Room 230, 15th Floor, 111 Grand Ave, Oakland
Phone Bridge: 1.510.286.2230

pat

[Nathan Dushman]

This meeting is in half an hour. I'll be there in person; please call in if you can.

Nathan

[pat giorni]

I'll be on the call in line.

pat

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[Lina Mårtensson]

Ah sigh, I really don't have time today, and have a meeting at 2... but I'll try to call in a little bit at least but will probably have to disappear at some point.

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[Lina Mårtensson]

This is super confusing. No one is picking up yet but there are other confused people on the phone bridge now.

[Lina Mårtensson]

Actual phone number is: 18666537614

Access code: 9607063

[Nathan Dushman]

They're confused here too. There's a guy working on getting the phone set up.

[Lina Mårtensson]

Ah. Phone number is not yet working, that explains it. Thanks!

[pat giorni]

I still cant get in!!!

pat

[Nathan Dushman]

Sorry, they didn't distribute the alternate number inside the meeting.

Public comment is over, I explained the situation, they won't discuss today but may put it on the agenda for the next meeting. No information on whether this is feasible or what would be involved.

[Lina Mårtensson]

Sigh. :( Thank you Nathan! 

[pat giorni]

Nathan,

I'm whipping off a letter it will be scathing...I' send you a copy.

Thanks for attending.  You can leave since they won't discuss anything other than putting it on an agenda.

pat

[Christine Ryan]

Hurray, Nathan!

[Justin!]

Thanks, Nathan!

[Rob]

I was unable to get through on the phone. Thanks for attending, Nathan.

[pat giorni]

Beth,

I tried to attend today's D4 BAC meeting via the phone bridge and was unable to get through on the posted phone number,  I exited the bridge when I got an email text to phone in at a different number and then spent 20 minutes going through automated Verizon conference call menus.  I gave up when a public attendee at the meeting, Nathan Dushman, emailed that public comment was over.  While I'm at it, I was extremely disappointed that no prior notice was sent about cancelling the April meeting, nor any mention of the May rescheduling. I remained un aware of the meeting until you notified the e-list on May 6 with an agenda posting the next day.  Finally, there has been to date NO update given to the http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist4/transplanning/bicyclecommittee.htm page since January.  Therefore, unless he'd sent you a inquiry, how would a member of the public know that a meeting was held today.

I am extremely disappointed that today's agenda did not include a discussion of the Hwy 35 Crystal Springs road closure problem that I explained to you via email on Feb. 26.  Nathan reported that during public comment he "explained the situation, they won't discuss today but may put it on the agenda for the next meeting. No information on whether this is feasible or what would be involved."  Even if you were to put this on the next agenda, realistically any action taken to allow bicycle commuters on 280 would take up another 3 months, minimally, to implement.

I am assuming that the petition to Caltrans,  https://www.change.org/p/ california-department-of- transportation-allow-bicycles- on-i-280-between-hayne-road- and-bunker-hill-drive referenced on this thread   https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/sf2g/Hz1dKBbr-RE is sitting at the back of some filing cabinet drawer.  It is sad commentary that a meeting held the day before Bike To Work Day that is of such great import to bicycle commuters who've suffered a 5 year disruption cannot move toward what could be simple resolution.

I am extremely disappointed that I had to get "the latest" from Mr. Roadshow, http://www.mercurynews.com/mr- roadshow/ci_28079977/roadshow- two-more-years-work-at- crystal-springs  published on May 11.

I would like to suggest that if Caltrans Operations and Planning is not going to take any action on this issue any time soon, with or without D4 BAC involvement, that at least a truck shuttle service be implemented asap at the dam site to transport the bike commuters over the extremely short stretch of road bed, and that this service should be available at least Monday through Friday from dawn to dusk.  Shuttle service precedent has been set with past projects like the Monte Diablo POC and the Peninsula Avenue OC on US101,  Far better to all would be bicycle allowance on I-280 where the Trousdale/Millbrae access is precedent.

I'd be glad to elaborate if you wish to call me at 650-347-8418.

Pat Giorni

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 3:04 PM, Rob <rob...@manchero.org> wrote:

I was unable to get through on the phone. Thanks for attending, Nathan.

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[hogorni]

I had a reply on Thursday, and expect to have a phone conversation today or Monday...

<<<<Looking forward, I’d like to convey that the District 4 BAC is not our only venue for communicating to Caltrans concerns about bicycling on the Highway System within the District. I see that you’ve gotten nearly 200 signatures on the petition to open the shoulder of I-280 paralleling the segment of Hwy 35 closed as a result of the Crystal Springs Dam Bridge Replacement Project. Have you had a chance to communicate your concerns with the Silicon Valley Bicycle Coalition? If they share the concerns, then I could work on arranging a meeting between our staff and SVBC to review the issues with using the shoulder on I-280 in this stretch and to see what, if anything, can be done to address the concerns previously expressed by District 4 staff. I see that you left your phone number below and will try calling you tomorrow to discuss the issues and next steps in more detail.

 

Thank you for conveying your concerns about the District 4 BAC process and the impacts of the Crystal Springs Dam Bridge Replacement Project. I look forward to talking with you soon.>>>>

pat

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[John Murphy]

If the SVBC were doing their job, there wouldn't be an independent petition with 200 signtures, n'est pas?

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