Open Letter to Dr. Chung - and to All
Stephen Nagler
After giving it considerable thought, I feel that I would, indeed,
like to continue contributing to this newsgroup. And I would like to
contribute in a positive fashion - totally on topic.
As you know, I am not a cardiologist, so my contributions will be
limited - but as a surgeon with a somewhat unique background and
experience, I do believe that I might be able to lend a valid slant to
thins from time to time.
Now you, on the other hand, as a dedicated and experienced
cardiologist for obvious reasons will have a much greater presence on
sci.med.cardiology than I.
All the above noted, while I am touched and gratified to be in your
prayers, I have repeatedly and politely indicated to you that for
reasons personal to me, I find your *talking* about my being in your
prayers (and your *talking* about why I should accept Jesus) to be
upsetting and indeed hurtful.
I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
*talking* about praying for me and the like. Mu has agreed to stop,
and I appreciate it. But I also need to hear from you ... because if
you do intend to continue, I will leave this newsgroup immediately -
and whatever limited future contributions I might have made for the
benefit of the general readership here will be lost, lost for only one
reason. And that reason would by your refusal to accede to my sincere
and earnest request.
Please let me know whether or not you intend to discontinue talking
about praying for me and talking about why I should accept Jesus. You
may let me know either by posting below - or by e-mail.
Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
Thanks much -
Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
A Mugnificent Desolation
wrote:
>After giving it considerable thought, I feel that I would, indeed,
>like to continue contributing to this newsgroup. And I would like to
>contribute in a positive fashion - totally on topic.
Excellent. You're expertise is needed.
>As you know, I am not a cardiologist, so my contributions will be
>limited - but as a surgeon with a somewhat unique background and
>experience, I do believe that I might be able to lend a valid slant to
>thins from time to time.
I am neither a cardiologist or a MD. I am a simple trainer of
athletes, and non athletes, and a few other things.
>All the above noted, while I am touched and gratified to be in your
>prayers, I have repeatedly and politely indicated to you that for
>reasons personal to me, I find your *talking* about my being in your
>prayers (and your *talking* about why I should accept Jesus) to be
>upsetting and indeed hurtful.
<sigh>
> Mu has agreed to stop,
>and I appreciate it.
What Mu does and what Chung does is up to Chung. He likes his Blimpies
with cheese; I find that repulsive.
lol
Here's an inside for you, Stephen; Chung eats sat fat laden red meat
in his Blimpies and I, the, the wonderful and slim and healthy and
always-ready-to-make-myself-look-better-than-Chung-which-is-not-very-hard-since-he-eats-that-gross-red-meat-in-his
Blimpies...
well, I am superior to Chung and he knows it.
I think.
Only when he buys. Which he never has. lol
You are invited.
Hey, Chung, imagine a Blimpie's feast of Nagler et al, Mu et al, chung
et al!!!!
>Please let me know whether or not you intend to discontinue talking
>about praying for me and talking about why I should accept Jesus. You
>may let me know either by posting below - or by e-mail.
>
>Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
>
>Thanks much -
>
>Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
Aw, Stephen, so many restraints, so little time.
I find as I go about my daily business, starting at 5:00 Am. ending at
1:00 AM (Lord, thank you that for that strength), I encounter all
kinds of folks who want to dictate to me things of Christianity.
Here is a bit of insight for you since I appreciate your sincerity.
I have been much to close to war recently, and in the past, and while
this experience has been extremely fruitful, it has made me jaded. I
offer no excuse for this but, in truth, in my real world, suffering
fools is catastrophic.
I have developed a rough edge and I apologize for that. I am trying to
better but it really is hard sometimes.
You know what, Stephen?
Blimpies don't all taste so bad sometimes.
Among friends.
Espcia;llky when I shame Chung into buying.
LOL
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031109.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Dr. Chung -
>
> After giving it considerable thought, I feel that I would, indeed,
> like to continue contributing to this newsgroup. And I would like to
> contribute in a positive fashion - totally on topic.
>
> As you know, I am not a cardiologist, so my contributions will be
> limited - but as a surgeon with a somewhat unique background and
> experience, I do believe that I might be able to lend a valid slant to
> thins from time to time.
>
> Now you, on the other hand, as a dedicated and experienced
> cardiologist for obvious reasons will have a much greater presence on
> sci.med.cardiology than I.
>
> All the above noted, while I am touched and gratified to be in your
> prayers, I have repeatedly and politely indicated to you that for
> reasons personal to me, I find your *talking* about my being in your
> prayers (and your *talking* about why I should accept Jesus) to be
> upsetting and indeed hurtful.
And I am truly sorry that you are hurt by this.
> I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
> *talking* about praying for me and the like. Mu has agreed to stop,
> and I appreciate it. But I also need to hear from you ... because if
> you do intend to continue, I will leave this newsgroup immediately -
> and whatever limited future contributions I might have made for the
> benefit of the general readership here will be lost, lost for only one
> reason. And that reason would by your refusal to accede to my sincere
> and earnest request.
This sounds like blackmail. Do this... or else...
> Please let me know whether or not you intend to discontinue talking
> about praying for me and talking about why I should accept Jesus. You
> may let me know either by posting below - or by e-mail.
This has not been something I have been willfully doing to distress you,
Stephen.
> Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
own free will, Stephen. I do not have the power to either drive you
away or to draw you back. Only God has the power to compel you to do
things against your free will and it is my understanding that He won't.
> Thanks much -
>
> Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
Your gratitude is welcome.
However, I am not in any position to deny Christ nor do I want to.
As much as I love you, as I would love my own blood kin, and want to
keep from hurting you, I love Jesus more. If you asked me to choose, I
will choose Him over you. It is my true heartfelt wish that you felt the
same way and that we would love Him together as brothers.
For Jesus observes in Mark 3:
34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here
are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother
and sister and mother."
And Jesus teaches in Mark 12:
1He then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard.
He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a
watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on
a journey. 2At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect
from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3But they seized him, beat
him and sent him away empty-handed. 4Then he sent another servant to
them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5He
sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some
of them they beat, others they killed.
6"He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last
of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
7"But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come,
let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
8So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the
vineyard.
9"What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and
kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.
10Haven't you read this scripture:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
11the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?"
And further commands in Mark 12:
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel,
the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all
your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all
your strength.' 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
There is no commandment greater than these."
May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.
I pray that you understand, Stephen.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
http:/www.heartmdphd.com/
Stephen Nagler
>> Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
................
Dr. Chung responded (in part):
>
>Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
>own free will, Stephen.
................
Indeed you are correct.
And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave.
smn
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
It was an exercise of your free will before.
It is an exercise of your free will now.
I apologize that I am unable to deny Christ.
Please know that you will remain in my prayers, Stephen.
Stephen Nagler
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>I apologize that I am unable to deny Christ.
..................
You hypocritical lying piece of shit.
I didn't ask you to deny Christ.
And every single person on this newsgroup knows it.
You are an embarrassment to all that is Christian. In fact, you are
an embarrassment to all that is human.
And you call yourself "Doctor." Sheesh.
smn
A Mu_g_nificent Desolation
wrote:
>And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
>you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
>I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave.
That's too bad Stephen, but the truth of the matter is, you have
"left" before to return. why did you return? what inexplicably draws
you back to SMC?
Think about that.
A Mu_g_nificent Desolation
>>I apologize that I am unable to deny Christ.
>
>..................
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 04:35:16 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
>You hypocritical lying piece of shit.
>
>I didn't ask you to deny Christ.
>
>And every single person on this newsgroup knows it.
>
>You are an embarrassment to all that is Christian. In fact, you are
>an embarrassment to all that is human.
>
>And you call yourself "Doctor." Sheesh.
Yes, Nagler, it is time for you to go, to leave sci.med.cardiology,
perhaps Usenet all together, and it is time, for once, when you leave,
to be true to your word, for once, and stay gone permanently.
You have gone from merely being annoying to completely embarrassing
yourself and any further participation by you, since you have
repeatedly claimed you were leaving this newsgroup, will only damage
what little credibility you have left.
So, take (your, a) hike.
Musty Smell
>Stephen Nagler posted (in part):
>
>>> Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
>
>................
>
>Dr. Chung responded (in part):
>>
>>Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
>>own free will, Stephen.
>
>................
>
>Indeed you are correct.
Chung uses the free will idea only to be manipulative, as we have seen
once again.
>And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
>you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
He is so filled with hate he WILL try his best to hurt anyone he does
not like. His real goal remains to drive you from the group, and he
has succeeded in finding a way to do that.
>I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave.
We will be sorry to see you go. Your caring and understanding are in
marked contrast to what we see here. This contrast is, in part, why
Chung MUST force you to leave. He does not want someone here who shows
us a superior alternative to his dogma. He wants only fellow fanatics
here.
Finally, he WILL twist this to look as though YOU are the bad guy, and
he is perfectly innocent. Just wait and see. In part, he needs this
for himself, but it also feeds into his propaganda.
Your interchanges have given us another opportunity to see just how
sick a mind we are dealing with.
Best wishes to you, and if you wish to interject something once in a
while it will be appreciated. We both know the result, of course. <g>
Mu4
Musty Smell
>
>
>>>I apologize that I am unable to deny Christ.
>>
>>..................
>
>On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 04:35:16 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>You hypocritical lying piece of shit.
>>
>>I didn't ask you to deny Christ.
>>
>>And every single person on this newsgroup knows it.
>>
>>You are an embarrassment to all that is Christian. In fact, you are
>>an embarrassment to all that is human.
>>
>>And you call yourself "Doctor." Sheesh.
>
>Yes, Nagler, it is time for you to go, to leave sci.med.cardiology,
Ah, yes, the true Chung/Mu has surfaced once again, showing his true
purpose of driving out a doctor who might compete with our resident
fanatic.
>perhaps Usenet all together, and it is time, for once, when you leave,
>to be true to your word, for once, and stay gone permanently.
You wish. But it is nice to be able to see your real motive so
clearly. You REALLY can't stand to have a decent doctor in the group,
can you?
>You have gone from merely being annoying to completely embarrassing
>yourself and any further participation by you,
We all realize how much Nagler has annoyed YOU. He represents much of
what you are NOT - caring, understanding, and other normal human
qualities. Your uncaring, shrill dogma is in marked contrast, and it
is understandable why this is so offensive to you.
>since you have
>repeatedly claimed you were leaving this newsgroup, will only damage
>what little credibility you have left.
Nice try at yet another attack. Those of us who have watched you know
which side has REAL credibility. It is certainly NOT yours.
>So, take (your, a) hike.
Thank you for demonstrating your so called Christian values once
again. You are an insult to true Christians.
Mu4
Musty Smell
>On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 03:23:05 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
>>you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
>>I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave.
>
>That's too bad
Actually, it is, but we do get your sarcastic remark.
>Stephen, but the truth of the matter is, you have
>"left" before to return. why did you return?
Perhaps, as he says, to help people?
Perhaps to show caring to other people?
To show good "bedside manner"?
You know, all those things Chung is NOT, and Chung can't stand to have
here because it makes Chung look even worse.
>what inexplicably draws
>you back to SMC?
Perhaps to defend himself from the incessant attacks by Chung/Mu?
>Think about that.
Yes, do.
Mu4
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:33:21 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >I apologize that I am unable to deny Christ.
>
> ..................
>
> You hypocritical lying piece of shit.
>
> I didn't ask you to deny Christ.
>
You wrote:
"I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
*talking* about praying for me and the like."
To not do the latter ("and the like") is denying Christ.
Truly, I pray that you will someday understand before it is too late.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com> wrote:
>
> >Stephen Nagler posted (in part):
> >
> >>> Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
> >
> >................
> >
> >Dr. Chung responded (in part):
> >>
> >>Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
> >>own free will, Stephen.
> >
> >................
> >
> >Indeed you are correct.
>
> <desperate booing and hissing snipped>
You poor guy.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Stephen Nagler
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
>You wrote:
>
>"I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
>*talking* about praying for me and the like."
>
>To not do the latter ("and the like") is denying Christ.
>
......................
Ahh. Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough with the phrase "and
the like.". I am sorry.
What I am specifically asking of you is to discontinue doing two
things that for deep personal reasons, which I wish not to discuss,
are distressing to me. The first thing I am asking is for you to
discontinue *speaking about* your praying for me, and the second thing
is to discontinue *verbally* glorifying Christ in your responses to
any of my posts or in any of your posts that specifically refer to me.
This request has absolutely nothing to do with any of your posts that
are not in response to mine or that do not refer to me. It allows you
to - if you so desire - pray for me and *not* talk about it. And by
all means it allows you to glorify Christ through the *quality* of
your responses to my posts - but just not *talk about* it in those
responses.
That is my request.
Most importantly my request has nothing to do with your denying
Christ. I would never ask that of you, and it disturbs me that you
think I would. I believe that religion should be between man and God.
I very much respect your right to believe as you do.
Are you willing to accede to my request now that it is described in
detail? What I am asking of you as a physician and as a man is to
please discontinue doing something that is hurtful to me. I take full
blame for not explaining it more thoroughly to you earlier, and I
apologize for my unseemly outburst earlier in this thread.
Having now made myself clear, would you kindly give me the courtsey of
an unambiguous response.
Thank you.
searching
"Stephen Nagler" <nag...@tinn.com> wrote in message
news:0qptvvg46cr1h6i5f...@4ax.com...
Dr. Nagler,
If I may intrude ...
I think that Dr. Chung will not accede to your requests. He will probably
cite another verse or Christian disposition that will not allow him to do as
you wish. I find him to be a sorry individual. It is intriguing how he can
get under the skin of those (not you, in this case) that are now launching a
full scale attack on him. God, what a waste of time! I find those
individuals, will all due respect, just as misguided - however justified
their anger may be.
I think that Dr. Chung needs to be considered as a ... thorn in our flesh.
We can always learn from that. This world is full of such (otherwise
productive) individuals, and we can learn to manage. But to counter him in
kind is fruitless. You seem one of the few individuals that has not fallen
in that trap.
You should continue to post, as I enjoy your contributions. For what it's
worth.
Musty Smell
>> <desperate booing and hissing snipped>
Can't address the issues this time either, I see. Nailed again with no
response. At least not any besides the usual bumper stickers.
When the REAL truth is presented, you can NEVER respond. Except, of
course, with your different "truth". Religious fanatics have a
different view of truth.
Mu4
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:04:04 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >You wrote:
> >
> >"I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
> >*talking* about praying for me and the like."
> >
> >To not do the latter ("and the like") is denying Christ.
> >
>
> ......................
>
> Ahh. Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough with the phrase "and
> the like.". I am sorry.
Your words betrayed what is in your heart, Stephen.
> What I am specifically asking of you is to discontinue doing two
> things that for deep personal reasons, which I wish not to discuss,
> are distressing to me. The first thing I am asking is for you to
> discontinue *speaking about* your praying for me, and the second thing
> is to discontinue *verbally* glorifying Christ in your responses to
> any of my posts or in any of your posts that specifically refer to me.
> This request has absolutely nothing to do with any of your posts that
> are not in response to mine or that do not refer to me. It allows you
> to - if you so desire - pray for me and *not* talk about it.
I really don't need your permission to pray for you, Stephen.
> And by
> all means it allows you to glorify Christ through the *quality* of
> your responses to my posts - but just not *talk about* it in those
> responses.
>
> That is my request.
>
> Most importantly my request has nothing to do with your denying
> Christ.
To not be openly Christian is to deny Christ.
> I would never ask that of you, and it disturbs me that you
> think I would.
I believe that you are not aware of what is truly in your heart.
> I believe that religion should be between man and God.
>
That is Satan's belief too.
> I very much respect your right to believe as you do.
>
Glad to hear that.
>
> Are you willing to accede to my request now that it is described in
> detail?
No. I was tempted to before but now that I have discerned what is in your
heart, I am no longer tempted.
> What I am asking of you as a physician and as a man is to
> please discontinue doing something that is hurtful to me.
Sorry, I choose to remain true to Christ.
> I take full
> blame for not explaining it more thoroughly to you earlier, and I
> apologize for my unseemly outburst earlier in this thread.
>
Apology accepted. I forgive you.
Truly, I pray that God will also forgive you.
>
> Having now made myself clear, would you kindly give me the courtsey of
> an unambiguous response.
>
"No"
I choose to continue walking with Christ, my Messiah and Boss.
http://www.heartmdphd.com/healer.asp
http://www.heartmdphd.com/christ.asp
>
> Thank you.
>
> Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
You are welcome. Though I suspect that you will be angered by my truthful
response.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Stephen Nagler" <nag...@tinn.com> wrote in message
> news:0qptvvg46cr1h6i5f...@4ax.com...
> | On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:04:04 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> | <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> <hissing snipped>
You poor guy.
You've been added to my prayer list, neighbor.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
frog
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:3FFEFA97...@heartmdphd.com...
| searching wrote:
|
| > "Stephen Nagler" <nag...@tinn.com> wrote in message
| > news:0qptvvg46cr1h6i5f...@4ax.com...
| > | On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 12:04:04 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
| > | <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
| >
| > <hissing snipped>
|
| You poor guy.
Well, maybe poor in spirit.
|
| You've been added to my prayer list, neighbor.
Thanks!
|
| May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
I have, over 25 years ago!
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Good for you.
May He move you to glorify Him in 2004.
You remain in my prayers.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
frog
| frog wrote:
|
| May He move you to glorify Him in 2004.
He has already moved me to do so, even before you had wished that.
|
| You remain in my prayers.
I have everything I need. But thanks!
Steve
(in message <vgCLb.23663$P%1.221...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>):
<snip>
> I find those
> individuals, will all due respect, just as misguided - however justified
> their anger may be.
>
> I think that Dr. Chung needs to be considered as a ... thorn in our flesh.
> We can always learn from that. This world is full of such (otherwise
> productive) individuals, and we can learn to manage. But to counter him in
> kind is fruitless.
I assume I am one of those misguided individuals to whom you refer :-)
Allow me to state why I don't think Chung should be simply ignored as
just a "thorn in the side".
First, and foremost, there is the idea of "empowerment". I suppose
"codependency" has fallen out of vogue in the pop psychology and the
self-help movements, but one of its key ideas is that when we allow
someone to behave antisocially and simply pretend nothing is wrong we
"empower" that individual's behavior... and become part of the problem.
That is not to say that we are responsible for the other individual's
behavior, but that it is unhealthy for both parties to pretend that it
is acceptable.
Chung's behavior on this newsgroup and that of his "familiar" Mu is
egregious. The litany is too well known to repeat here but suffice it
to say that it exceeds by several orders of magnitude expressing an
occasional pious sentiment.
Second, his behavior degrades the quality of the newsgroup for
everyone. He drives away other valuable contributors. The instant
case is just the latest in a series and won't be the last.
Third, he offers medical advice. When judging whether or not to accept
this advice, I think it is prudent to take into account all you know
about the person, not just their claimed degrees. By this standard I
wouldn't accept Chung's advice on anything. Unfortunately a new person
arriving here has not has enough exposure to Chung to make an informed
decision.
Fourth, he has turned this group into "alt.science.christianity"... and
Chung's perverse interpretation of Christianity at that. I am frankly
surprised that other Christians are not stepping forward to
disassociate themselves from his manipulative, self-serving,
mean-spirited, hypocritical brand of "Christianity".
Fifth, although I recognize that it is somewhat idealistic, there is
the maxim is that "all that it takes for evil to prosper is for good
men to say nothing".
Something should be done about Chung and his abuses. The question is
what? Your solution, if I interpret you correctly, is to ignore him.
I think that solution works with, for example Mu, since he is just
another Troll of many and has no weight without Chung. I am troubled
that so many people seem to feel the need to respond to him since I
think it is counter productive. He may not go away if ignored, but no
one takes him seriously so he is more of a simple nuisance.
Furthermore, despite Chung's protestations to the contrary, Mu must be
an embarassment to Chung and, in that respect, I welcome his posts :-)
Chung, on the other hand, poses openly as a nominal authority on the
nominal topic of this group... and then uses that authority to subvert
it to his purposes and drive away those who challenge him.
I don't think the answer is a full scale flame war with insults in
kind. In that case the "cure" is perhaps worse than the disease. But
there has to be a way of confronting this mad man rather than simply
rolling over and giving up.
Usenet is a relatively new phenomenon and "virtual society" and we are
still working out how this "society" is to be civilized and police
itself. Chung is one of this society's bullies. How he is dealt with
will determine how other bullies are dealt with.
--
Steve
Weeding the Lord's Vineyards Since 2003
frog
"Steve" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC2469C3...@library.airnews.net...
| On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:19:07 -0500, searching wrote
| (in message <vgCLb.23663$P%1.221...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>):
|
| <snip>
|
| > I find those
| > individuals, will all due respect, just as misguided - however justified
| > their anger may be.
| >
| > I think that Dr. Chung needs to be considered as a ... thorn in our
flesh.
| > We can always learn from that. This world is full of such (otherwise
| > productive) individuals, and we can learn to manage. But to counter him
in
| > kind is fruitless.
|
| I assume I am one of those misguided individuals to whom you refer :-)
| Allow me to state why I don't think Chung should be simply ignored as
| just a "thorn in the side".
I think that "misguided" may have been the wrong characterization, and I am
sorry. However valid your reasons seem to be (intuitively, I do understand
them), I believe that there is room for accepting the notion that being
"defensive" is counterproductive. I sense that the original intent (to
discuss cardiology) has been replaced by concerned individuals like yourself
in making sure that a public forum is defended by the onslaught of Dr.
Chung. This can become such a passion, that it becomes an obsession. You
will admit that it has deterioated to much more than protecting the fort.
The tit-for-tats, the insults, the innuendos are outside the scope that you
described, and yet they are rampant among those that are "concerned."
Again sorry about labeling you and others misguided. I trust you understand
me better, though I don't expect you to agree.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Your words betray what is in your heart.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you walk with Christ in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Steve
(in message <okDLb.23717$P%1.221...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>):
> "Steve" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
<snip>
>> I assume I am one of those misguided individuals to whom you refer
>> :-) Allow me to state why I don't think Chung should be simply
>> ignored as just a "thorn in the side".
>
> I think that "misguided" may have been the wrong characterization, and I am
> sorry.
No need to apologize... my skin has developed quite a thickness thanks
to the good Doctor :-) I took your comments in the spirit offered and
hope I responded in kind.
> However valid your reasons seem to be (intuitively, I do understand
> them), I believe that there is room for accepting the notion that
> being "defensive" is counterproductive.
I think that argument can be advanced and defended by people of good
faith, especially as a general principle. In this particular case,
however, I would liken it to not being "defensive" when the barbarians
are at the gates :-) There has to be a middle ground between "no
defense" and a pointless, full scale flame war.
> I sense that the original intent (to discuss cardiology) has been
> replaced by concerned individuals like yourself in making sure that
> a public forum is defended by the onslaught of Dr. Chung. This can
> become such a passion, that it becomes an obsession. You will admit
> that it has deterioated to much more than protecting the fort. The
> tit-for-tats, the insults, the innuendos are outside the scope that
> you described, and yet they are rampant among those that are
> "concerned."
I can only speak for myself. I try to be judicious as to which posts
and to which issues I respond. I try to point out the inconsistencies
and folly, using humor where possible, without simply calling names.
Sometimes I don't live up to my own expectations, but who of us does? I
rarely, if ever, respond to Mu since I view Chung as the root of the
problem. I never interfere with On Topic posts. I never change my
"handle" so anyone can killfile me if they care to. (Well, sometimes I
may author a post as "Satan" to get a laugh, but you know what I mean).
"Obsession" is a very strong word and one which Chung regularly bandies
about. Chung infuriates people. Passions rise and there are a flurry
of posts. Then they subside. Again, I can only speak for myself, but
I don't see anyone obsessed with Chung except Chung. Some of us may
have "a little too much time on our hands" and enjoy poking holes in
such a pompous, self-important balloon... but I think "obsession"
overstates the case by half.
Anyway, I think you have raised a point of view which is reasonable and
probably shared by many and, although I don't agree with you, I
certainly don't object to you raising it.
I don't pity you and I won't pray for you :-)
Steve
(in message <3FFF0AA7...@heartmdphd.com>):
> frog wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>> news:3FFEFBDD...@heartmdphd.com...
>>> frog wrote:
>>>
>>> May He move you to glorify Him in 2004.
>>
>> He has already moved me to do so, even before you had wished that.
>>
>>>
>>> You remain in my prayers.
>>
>> I have everything I need. But thanks!
>
> Your words betray what is in your heart.
See, frog, now you're a liar too :-)
frog
| On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 14:31:32 -0500, frog wrote
| (in message <okDLb.23717$P%1.221...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>):
|
|
| about. Chung infuriates people. Passions rise and there are a flurry
| of posts. Then they subside. Again, I can only speak for myself, but
| I don't see anyone obsessed with Chung except Chung. Some of us may
| have "a little too much time on our hands" and enjoy poking holes in
| such a pompous, self-important balloon... but I think "obsession"
| overstates the case by half.
Well said. I have to agree with you.
|
| Anyway, I think you have raised a point of view which is reasonable and
| probably shared by many and, although I don't agree with you, I
| certainly don't object to you raising it.
|
| I don't pity you and I won't pray for you :-)
Thanks. Besides, I have just been added to someone else's prayer list. :)
Stephen Nagler
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Your words betrayed what is in your heart, Stephen.
................
You cannot begin to know what is in my heart. You are a doctor - not
God. Maybe you are a doctor who thinks he is God? Never considered
that. But then for sure you would have been able to obtain hospital
privileges SOMEWHERE! Nope, you are a cardiologist who can't seem to
get hospital privileges. I guess the hospitals know something we
don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
other than me.
.................
>>[Nagler] Having now made myself clear, would you kindly give me the courtsey of
>> an unambiguous response [to my request].
>>
>
>"No"
..................
I thought not. But I wanted to be certain.
Having now heard your response to my request very clearly, I am going
to use my free will to [yes, Mu - finally] leave this newsgroup. The
sole reason I am leaving is because of you, Dr. Chung. My
congratulations. That's one less MD to challenge - however
respectfully - your opinions, the opinions of a cardiologist who says
he is in practice, but who can't get hospital privileges. No wonder
you need this newsgroup so badly!
Tonight it is I who will pray for YOU, Dr. Chung. You really really
need it.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
You'll need this if you continue to choose to thank Satan (aka Steve aka
nos...@nospam.com)
You remain in my prayers, neighbor :-)
May you truly accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Volcanic Io M_un
you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave."
Stephen Nagler 8 Jan 03
========================================================
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:08:20 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971110.html
Volcanic Io M_un
"And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave."
Stephen Nagler 08 Jan 03
==========================================
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 18:08:20 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
>What I am specifically asking of you is to discontinue doing two
>things that for deep personal reasons, which I wish not to discuss,
>are distressing to me. The first thing I am asking is for you to
>discontinue *speaking about* your praying for me, and the second thing
>is to discontinue *verbally* glorifying Christ in your responses to
>any of my posts or in any of your posts that specifically refer to me.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 13:59:32 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Your words betrayed what is in your heart, Stephen.
>
> ................
>
> You cannot begin to know what is in my heart.
Correct.
> You are a doctor - not
> God.
Correct again.
> Maybe you are a doctor who thinks he is God?
No.
A servant knows his/her place.
> Never considered
> that.
Your words betray you yet again.
> But then for sure you would have been able to obtain hospital
> privileges SOMEWHERE!
I have be able to.
> Nope, you are a cardiologist who can't seem to
> get hospital privileges.
It remains my choice not to list such information on my on-line profile (wouldn't want
others to be harrassed either for my being Christian or being a proponent/author of
the 2PD approach). Since you just filled out the same on-line profile, you of all
people should know that one is not required to list these hospitals.
> I guess the hospitals know something we
> don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
> other than me.
>
Old topic, Stephen. Would suggest you use Google instead of believing the emails you
are getting from the anti-christians you are associating with. They are poisoning
your heart and mind.
>
> .................
>
> >>[Nagler] Having now made myself clear, would you kindly give me the courtsey of
> >> an unambiguous response [to my request].
> >>
> >
> >"No"
>
> ..................
>
> I thought not. But I wanted to be certain.
>
> Having now heard your response to my request very clearly, I am going
> to use my free will to [yes, Mu - finally] leave this newsgroup. The
> sole reason I am leaving is because of you, Dr. Chung.
The truth is that it remains solely your free will.
> My
> congratulations. That's one less MD to challenge - however
> respectfully - your opinions, the opinions of a cardiologist who says
> he is in practice,
I am.
> but who can't get hospital privileges.
I can.
> No wonder
> you need this newsgroup so badly!
>
No need.
>
> Tonight it is I who will pray for YOU, Dr. Chung.
Thanks.
> You really really
> need it.
>
Yes, I do.
>
> Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
You poor guy.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you come to know Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Jim Horne
"Volcanic Io M_un" <sho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fp4uvv06vaco8qms4...@4ax.com...
: "And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
: you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
: I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave."
:
: Stephen Nagler 8 Jan 03
Dr. Nagler has been posting for over a year? This is news...
--
i see hate in your heart...
why all the hate?
sorry you feel this way, neighbor...
Jim Horne
:
: "And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
: you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
: I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave."
:
: Stephen Nagler 08 Jan 03
Volcanic Io M_un
"And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave."
Stephen Nagler 8 Jan 03
===========================================================
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:29:32 GMT, Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
wrote:
>You cannot begin
Volcanic Io M_un
wrote:
>Having now heard your response to my request very clearly, I am going
>to use my free will to [yes, Mu - finally] leave this newsgroup.
Uh-huh.
> The
>sole reason I am leaving is because of you, Dr. Chung.
The sole reason you are leaving has nothing to do with Chung but has
to do with something deep in your troubled heart, Stephen. Christ is
touching you and you are retracting.
> My
>congratulations. That's one less MD to challenge - however
>respectfully - your opinions, the opinions of a cardiologist who says
>he is in practice, but who can't get hospital privileges. No wonder
>you need this newsgroup so badly!
Parting low and inaccurate blow, Nagler. Kidney punch. Take a hike.
>Tonight it is I who will pray for YOU, Dr. Chung. You really really
>need it.
What about Mu? No prayers for Mu?
Shucks, I need them too.
John9212112
>From: Steve nos...@nospam.com
>Date: 1/9/2004 12:22 PM Mountain Standard Time
>Message-id: <0001HW.BC2469C3...@library.airnews.net>
>
>On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:19:07 -0500, searching wrote
>(in message <vgCLb.23663$P%1.221...@newssvr28.news.prodigy.com>):
>
><snip>
>
>> I find those
>> individuals, will all due respect, just as misguided - however justified
>> their anger may be.
>>
>> I think that Dr. Chung needs to be considered as a ... thorn in our flesh.
>> We can always learn from that. This world is full of such (otherwise
>> productive) individuals, and we can learn to manage. But to counter him in
>> kind is fruitless.
And now for the Intolerance Manifesto of "Steve" aka "Satan".
And this bully's weapons are - WORDS - how awful! How demeaning! And your
defenses are - your eyelids. How pitiful you are! Only eyelids in defense
against the power of words and more inportantly, THE WORD. No wonder Satan is
trembling. (He is, you know.) From Martin Luther's hymn:
"The Prince of Darkness grim,
we tremble not for him;
his rage we can endure,
for lo, his doom is sure;
one little word shall fell him."
And you would be an intolerant bully if you succeeded in running Dr. Chung off
the group, wouldn't you?
What is the matter with you people? This society was founded, above all, on
freedom of expression and freedom of conscience. But because Dr. Chung is a
Christian, you would propose to take away his freedom of expression. The harm
inflicted in this relatively impersonal USENET group by a single sentence, "You
are in my prayers," is infinitesimal compared to the harm of censorship of free
expression. If the Steves and Stevens of this society have their way, whose
free expression will be trampled next? Dr. Nagler, I have trouble believing
that you are really a Jew. If you were you would understand this implicitly.
But yeah, what about all the off-topic religious rants he does? I haven't
found one yet where Dr. Chung started it. Your remedy - don't start these
discussions. If he starts one - kill it. Don't like what he posts? - kill
file him or don't read him. You don't seem to understand that he WANTS you to
engage him on religion. (So do I.) You have only yourselves to blame, as
usual.
Wise up, stop your whining,
John
Matti Narkia
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Stephen Nagler wrote:
>
>> But then for sure you would have been able to obtain hospital
>> privileges SOMEWHERE!
>
>I have be able to.
>
Is English your seventh language?
>> Nope, you are a cardiologist who can't seem to
>> get hospital privileges.
>
>It remains my choice not to list such information on my on-line profile (wouldn't want
>others to be harrassed either for my being Christian or being a proponent/author of
>the 2PD approach). Since you just filled out the same on-line profile, you of all
>people should know that one is not required to list these hospitals.
>
So you haven't been able to get hospital privileges.
>> I guess the hospitals know something we
>> don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
>> other than me.
>
>Old topic, Stephen.
>
The older the worse. That means that even after a lengthy time period you
still haven't managed to get hospital privileges.
--
Matti Narkia
Volcanic Io M_un
>And this bully's weapons are - WORDS - how awful! How demeaning! And your
>defenses are - your eyelids. How pitiful you are! Only eyelids in defense
>against the power of words and more inportantly, THE WORD. No wonder Satan is
>trembling. (He is, you know.) From Martin Luther's hymn:
>
> "The Prince of Darkness grim,
> we tremble not for him;
> his rage we can endure,
> for lo, his doom is sure;
> one little word shall fell him."
The Word has already been delivered. It's only a matter of time now.
Jim Horne
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Fri, 09 Jan 2004 15:52:09 -0500 in article <3FFF1479...@heartmdphd.com>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Stephen Nagler wrote:
> >
> >> But then for sure you would have been able to obtain hospital
> >> privileges SOMEWHERE!
> >
> >I have be able to.
> >
> Is English your seventh language?
>
No.
However, sorry about the typo.
That should read:
"I have been able to"
>
> >> Nope, you are a cardiologist who can't seem to
> >> get hospital privileges.
> >
> >It remains my choice not to list such information on my on-line profile (wouldn't want
> >others to be harrassed either for my being Christian or being a proponent/author of
> >the 2PD approach). Since you just filled out the same on-line profile, you of all
> >people should know that one is not required to list these hospitals.
> >
> So you haven't been able to get hospital privileges.
>
"I have been able to"
>
> >> I guess the hospitals know something we
> >> don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
> >> other than me.
> >
> >Old topic, Stephen.
> >
> The older the worse. That means that even after a lengthy time period you
> still haven't managed to get hospital privileges.
>
"I have been able to"
>
> --
> Matti Narkia
You poor guy.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior in 2004.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
Matti Narkia
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Zuzu wrote:
>
>> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
>> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
>
>Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>
You got the name wrong there. Hint: It starts with a "C".
--
Matti Narkia
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
You would get it right if English were your first language, Matti.
Perhaps, you have not fully recovered from your illness yet.
You poor guy.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior before it is too late (ie when you
die from your illness).
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
John Pellegrino
> Zuzu wrote:
>
>> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
>> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
>
> Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>
> Humbly,
>
> Andrew
I think he means YOU and your Mu.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
Who started this thread?
Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
language.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Steve
(in message <3FFF4A6C...@heartmdphd.com>):
> John Pellegrino wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>>
>>> Zuzu wrote:
>>>
>>>> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
>>>> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
>>>
>>> Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>>>
>>> Humbly,
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>
>> I think he means YOU and your Mu.
>
> As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
>
> Who started this thread?
Yes, Dr. Chung, let's help people "discern the truth":
> From: Stephen Nagler <nag...@tinn.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Subject: Open Letter to Dr. Chung - and to All
> Message-ID: <md1svvgtcifm88bsl...@4ax.com>
> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 01:57:31 GMT
Now who, Oh Great Truth Discerner, do you suppose added the cross post
to alt.support.tinnitus?
> From: A Mugnificent Desolation <sho...@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: sci.med.cardiology,alt.support.tinnitus
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Subject: Re: Open Letter to Dr. Chung - and to All
> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:07:18 -0500
> Message-ID: <nm6svvg5hv99k92qk...@4ax.com>
> References: <md1svvgtcifm88bsl...@4ax.com>
The truth is that you are a lying fraud and so is your buddy Mu.
--
Steve
(Apologies to the folks in a.s.t. for responding to Chung's
disingenuous cross post. You should know the dispicable people we have
to deal with in s.c.m. I know you don't care about that, but I don't
think it is fair to let this evil "Doctor" impugn Dr. Nagler)
Volcanic Io M_un
<noth...@nospam.net> wrote:
>> Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>>
>> Humbly,
>>
>> Andrew
>
>I think he means YOU and your Mu.
I think I have no idea and I know that neither of us do for sure.
Thorsten Schier
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> John Pellegrino wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> >
> > > Zuzu wrote:
> > >
> > >> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> > >> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
> > >
> > > Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
> > >
> > > Humbly,
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> > I think he means YOU and your Mu.
>
> As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
>
> Who started this thread?
>
> Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> language.
>
Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
Thorsten
--
"Nothing in biology makes sense, except in the light of evolution"
(Theodosius Dobzhansky)
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> i see hate in your heart...
Even from your cubicle (5-086), you see it in Dr. Nagler too?
Must be too obvious :-)
> why all the hate?
I wonder about this too.
> sorry you feel this way, neighbor...
I too am sorry that Stephen feels this way.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Steve
(in message <3FFF552E...@firemail.de>):
He knows that, Thorsten. He uses the same technique himself. He must
have nothing but contempt for the intelligence of readers of both
groups. It is hard for me to believe he doesn't know exactly what he
is doing.
It is one thing to be a deluded fanatic... it is something else again
to be such a malevolent weasel. And he calls _me_ Satan.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > John Pellegrino wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > >
> > > > Zuzu wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> > > >> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
> > > >
> > > > Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
> > > >
> > > > Humbly,
> > > >
> > > > Andrew
> > >
> > > I think he means YOU and your Mu.
> >
> > As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
> >
> > Who started this thread?
> >
> > Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> > with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> > language.
> >
>
> Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
>
No. I am not interested in subscribing to it.
>
> You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
>
The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
>
> Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
>
If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
Truth is simple.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
Start by reading the Holy Bible.
John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
You remain in my prayers.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Steve
(in message <a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com>):
> "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
> news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>> i see hate in your heart...
>
> Even from your cubicle (5-086)
I assume this is some not-so-subtle attempt at intimidation. Chung is
"investigating you". His Truth Discerning Ray can burn deep into
cubicle (5-086). Because we _know_ what you are hiding something there
in cubicle (5-086)... we know the evil that lurks in cubicle (5-086).
Next he will find a convicted felon by the name of Jim and start
telling everyone it is you.
What a nut case.
Jim Horne
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
: "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message:
looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
I have.
See:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/stalking.asp
You poor guy.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Jim Horne
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
: Jim Horne wrote:
:
: > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
: > news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
: > : "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
: > news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
: > :
: > : > i see hate in your heart...
: > :
: > looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
:
: I have.
so you admit to stalking me?
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
> : Jim Horne wrote:
> :
> : > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> : > news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
> : > : "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
> : > news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> : > :
> : > : > i see hate in your heart...
> : > :
> : > looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
> :
> : I have.
> :
> so you admit to stalking me?
No.
But I understand that you now intend to cyber-stalk me.
Shall I add you to:
http://www.heartmdphd.com/rip.asp
?
And contact the appropriate authorities about your intent?
Humbly turning the other cheek,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Jim Horne
"Steve" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BC24D200...@library.airnews.net...
: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004 21:23:29 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote
i actually wondered what was taking him so long...
Jim Horne
: Jim Horne wrote:
:
: > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
: > news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
: > : Jim Horne wrote:
: > :
: > : > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in
message
: > : > news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
: > : > : "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
: > : > news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
: > : > :
: > : > : > i see hate in your heart...
: > : > :
: > : > looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
: > :
: > : I have.
: > :
: > so you admit to stalking me?
:
: No.
so this won't happen again?
Steve
(in message <btnsg6$9b8ga$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>):
Well, keep your eye out... I'll bet ol'Satan is going to be headed to
cubicle (5-086) just as soon as he finishes up at frog's place :-)
Steve
(in message <76ccb1607d416e2b...@news.teranews.com>):
> Jim Horne wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>> news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
>>> Jim Horne wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
>>>>> "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
>>>> news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>>>>
>>>>>> i see hate in your heart...
>>>>>
>>>> looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
>>>
>>> I have.
>>>
>> so you admit to stalking me?
>
> No.
>
> But I understand that you now intend to cyber-stalk me.
>
> Shall I add you to:
>
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/rip.asp
>
> ?
>
> And contact the appropriate authorities about your intent?
>
Yep. I think Satan has arrived :-)
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> news:76ccb1607d416e2b...@news.teranews.com...
> : Jim Horne wrote:
> :
> : > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
> : > news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
> : > : Jim Horne wrote:
> : > :
> : > : > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in
> message
> : > : > news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
> : > : > : "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
> : > : > news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> : > : > :
> : > : > : > i see hate in your heart...
> : > : > :
> : > : > looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
> : > :
> : > : I have. See: http://www.heartmdphd.com/stalking.asp
> : > :
> : > so you admit to stalking me?
> :
> : No.
>
> <fearful hiss snipped>
You poor guy.
May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Steve
(in message <76ccb1607d416e2b...@news.teranews.com>):
> Jim Horne wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>> news:f0e449e6d6040ab5...@news.teranews.com...
>>> Jim Horne wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nos...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:a4b1bd78.04010...@posting.google.com...
>>>>> "Jim Horne" <hor...@ufl.edu> wrote in message
>>>> news:<btn98r$923pm$1...@ID-148893.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>>>>
>>>>>> i see hate in your heart...
>>>>>
>>>> looks like you should read http://www.cyber-stalking.net/
>>>
>>> I have.
>>>
>> so you admit to stalking me?
>
> No.
>
> But I understand that you now intend to cyber-stalk me.
>
> Shall I add you to:
>
> http://www.heartmdphd.com/rip.asp
>
> ?
>
> And contact the appropriate authorities about your intent?
>
>
>
> Humbly turning the other cheek, <--- and contacting the authorities
Nope. No irony here folks. Move along. Move along.
Thorsten Schier
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
>
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > John Pellegrino wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Zuzu wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> > > > >> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
> > > > >
> > > > > Humbly,
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrew
> > > >
> > > > I think he means YOU and your Mu.
> > >
> > > As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
> > >
> > > Who started this thread?
> > >
> > > Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> > > with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> > > language.
> > >
> >
> > Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
> >
>
> No. I am not interested in subscribing to it.
Sounds like your not really interested in the truth.
> >
> > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> >
>
> The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
The truth remains that this is beside the point.
> >
> > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> >
>
> If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do. The crossposting
seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
Nagler.
> Truth is simple.
Only to the simple-minded.
> May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
>
> Start by reading the Holy Bible.
I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
into the mindset of Christians.
> John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
Does not convince me.
Bob Pastorio
> Matti Narkia wrote:
>
>
>>Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500 in article <3FFF434B...@heartmdphd.com>
>>"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Zuzu wrote:
>>>
>>>>Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
>>>>and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
>>>
>>>Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>>
>>You got the name wrong there. Hint: It starts with a "C".
>>
> You would get it right if English were your first language, Matti.
Hint for fuckwit Chung. Matti *did* get it right in spite of Chung's
hilariously transparent "misunderstanding."
For Chung to be correcting Matti's English is like Mu_ncher correcting
someone's ethics.
> Perhaps, you have not fully recovered from your illness yet.
>
> You poor guy.
>
> You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
>
> May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior before it is too late (ie when you
> die from your illness).
What wonderful warmth and loving care from the faker, fraud, quack Chung.
Pastorio
Bob Pastorio
> John Pellegrino wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
>>
>>>Zuzu wrote:
>>>
>>>>Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
>>>>and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
>>>
>>>Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
>>>
>>>Humbly,
>>>
>>>Andrew
>>
>>I think he means YOU and your Mu.
>
> As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
Another example of Chung's brilliance with the language... And his
concern with "truth." ANd his ignorance of plural forms. Poor guy with
all those handicaps.
> Who started this thread?
>
> Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> language.
And isn't it funny that Matti's english is virtually flawless while
Chung's consistently shows ignorance of its forms and spelling?
Only a shitskull like Chung could possibly interpret the rather
remarkable accomplishment of having facility in 5 languages as a bad
thing. Poor Chung. Can't even handle himself in his native language.
Like he claims to speak Chinese in some places and not in others.
Chung's "variable" truth. Think he speaks Chinese in the hospitals he
has privileges in?
Pastorio
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> >
> > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > >
> > > > John Pellegrino wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Zuzu wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> > > > > >> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Humbly,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Andrew
> > > > >
> > > > > I think he means YOU and your Mu.
> > > >
> > > > As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
> > > >
> > > > Who started this thread?
> > > >
> > > > Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> > > > with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> > > > language.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
> > >
> >
> > No. I am not interested in subscribing to it.
>
> Sounds like your not really interested in the truth.
But I am.
For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me..."
> > >
> > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > >
> >
> > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
>
> The truth remains that this is beside the point.
It is the point that I have made.
> > >
> > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > >
> >
> > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
>
> Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
He does.
> The crossposting
> seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
> And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> Nagler.
My response was and remains specific for this thread.
> > Truth is simple.
>
> Only to the simple-minded.
And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
> > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> >
> > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
>
> I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> into the mindset of Christians.
Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
"I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
Ghandi. It won't save you.
> > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
>
> Does not convince me.
You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
as your Lord and Savior.
> Thorsten
>
Truly, you remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
http:/www.heartmdphd.com/
Matti Narkia
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Matti Narkia wrote:
>
>> So you haven't been able to get hospital privileges.
>
>"I have been able to"
>
If so, I'm sure you don't mind sharing with us the name of the hospital.
You have nothing to hide, right?
>>
>> >> I guess the hospitals know something we
>> >> don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
>> >> other than me.
>> >
>> >Old topic, Stephen.
>> >
>> The older the worse. That means that even after a lengthy time period you
>> still haven't managed to get hospital privileges.
>
>"I have been able to"
>
If so, I'm sure you don't mind sharing with us the name of the hospital.
You have nothing to hide, right?
--
Matti Narkia
francispoon
> Dr. Chung -
>
snipped...
All the above noted, while I am touched and gratified to be in your
> prayers, I have repeatedly and politely indicated to you that for
> reasons personal to me, I find your *talking* about my being in your
> prayers (and your *talking* about why I should accept Jesus) to be
> upsetting and indeed hurtful.
Though i was born and raised in a Christian background, I do
appreciate people from all sorts of religious backgrounds to pray for
me or give me good wishes. I suppose different strokes are for
different folks.
FP
francispoon
> Stephen Nagler posted (in part):
>
> >> Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
>
> ................
>
> Dr. Chung responded (in part):
> >
> >Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
> >own free will, Stephen.
>
> ................
>
> Indeed you are correct.
>
> And as the direct result of your refusal to accede to my request that
> you discontinue doing something that I have told you is hurtful to me,
> I am now going to exercise my own free will and leave.
I suggest you stay for those who need your help. Dr.Chung does not
own any ngs here. What happens between you and Dr. Chung is strictly
between the two of you and has nothing to do with those who do need
your help. Thus if you leave, that means you exercise your free will
to leave those who are in need of your help.
FP
>
> smn
Matti Narkia
<936eaee8.04011...@posting.google.com> fyf...@hotmail.com
(francispoon) wrote:
I'll second that.
--
Matti Narkia
francispoon
you leave him alone. That person, whoever he/she is, has to come to
apreciate whatever spiritual being you believe in. It is like
'seeking Buddha'. That person has to do it from his heart, not from
his logical understanding or rationalization of reality.
FP
========================================
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message news:<3FFE1C...@heartmdphd.com>...
> Stephen Nagler wrote:
> >
> > Dr. Chung -
> >
> > After giving it considerable thought, I feel that I would, indeed,
> > like to continue contributing to this newsgroup. And I would like to
> > contribute in a positive fashion - totally on topic.
> >
> > As you know, I am not a cardiologist, so my contributions will be
> > limited - but as a surgeon with a somewhat unique background and
> > experience, I do believe that I might be able to lend a valid slant to
> > thins from time to time.
> >
> > Now you, on the other hand, as a dedicated and experienced
> > cardiologist for obvious reasons will have a much greater presence on
> > sci.med.cardiology than I.
> >
> > All the above noted, while I am touched and gratified to be in your
> > prayers, I have repeatedly and politely indicated to you that for
> > reasons personal to me, I find your *talking* about my being in your
> > prayers (and your *talking* about why I should accept Jesus) to be
> > upsetting and indeed hurtful.
>
> And I am truly sorry that you are hurt by this.
>
> > I wish to know - please - whether or not you intend to continue
> > *talking* about praying for me and the like. Mu has agreed to stop,
> > and I appreciate it. But I also need to hear from you ... because if
> > you do intend to continue, I will leave this newsgroup immediately -
> > and whatever limited future contributions I might have made for the
> > benefit of the general readership here will be lost, lost for only one
> > reason. And that reason would by your refusal to accede to my sincere
> > and earnest request.
>
> This sounds like blackmail. Do this... or else...
>
> > Please let me know whether or not you intend to discontinue talking
> > about praying for me and talking about why I should accept Jesus. You
> > may let me know either by posting below - or by e-mail.
>
> This has not been something I have been willfully doing to distress you,
> Stephen.
>
> > Whether or not I post here again will be dictated by your response.
>
> Whether you participate here at SMC or not will be an exercise of your
> own free will, Stephen. I do not have the power to either drive you
> away or to draw you back. Only God has the power to compel you to do
> things against your free will and it is my understanding that He won't.
>
> > Thanks much -
> >
> > Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS
>
> Your gratitude is welcome.
>
> However, I am not in any position to deny Christ nor do I want to.
>
> As much as I love you, as I would love my own blood kin, and want to
> keep from hurting you, I love Jesus more. If you asked me to choose, I
> will choose Him over you. It is my true heartfelt wish that you felt the
> same way and that we would love Him together as brothers.
>
>
> For Jesus observes in Mark 3:
>
> 34Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here
> are my mother and my brothers! 35Whoever does God's will is my brother
> and sister and mother."
>
> And Jesus teaches in Mark 12:
>
> 1He then began to speak to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard.
> He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a
> watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on
> a journey. 2At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect
> from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. 3But they seized him, beat
> him and sent him away empty-handed. 4Then he sent another servant to
> them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. 5He
> sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some
> of them they beat, others they killed.
> 6"He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last
> of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
> 7"But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come,
> let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
> 8So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the
> vineyard.
> 9"What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and
> kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.
> 10Haven't you read this scripture:
> " 'The stone the builders rejected
> has become the capstone;
> 11the Lord has done this,
> and it is marvelous in our eyes'?"
>
> And further commands in Mark 12:
>
> 29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel,
> the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30Love the Lord your God with all
> your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all
> your strength.' 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
> There is no commandment greater than these."
>
> May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.
>
> I pray that you understand, Stephen.
>
> Humbly,
>
> Andrew
Thorsten Schier
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
>
> Thorsten Schier wrote:
> >
> > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > >
> > > Thorsten Schier wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" schrieb:
> > > > >
> > > > > John Pellegrino wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:11:55 -0500, Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zuzu wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Great... we finally get AST on track and drop 3 years of Nagler obession
> > > > > > >> and now we're being overtaken by religious fanatics.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Why are you calling Nagler a religious fanatic?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Humbly,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Andrew
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think he means YOU and your Mu.
> > > > >
> > > > > As simple question to help folks discern the truth:
> > > > >
> > > > > Who started this thread?
> > > > >
> > > > > Hint: His last name starts with an "N" though Matti will at times confuse this
> > > > > with a "C" but please excuse this because English is truly Matti's fifth
> > > > > language.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
> > > >
> > >
> > > No. I am not interested in subscribing to it.
> >
> > Sounds like your not really interested in the truth.
>
> But I am.
Then why are you turning a blind eye to the less then perfect behaviour
of your friend (and brother) Mu?
> For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
>
> 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> to the Father except through me..."
I fail to see the relevance of this to this discussion.
> > > >
> > > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
> >
> > The truth remains that this is beside the point.
>
> It is the point that I have made.
You could just as well have made the point that the wheather is sunny in
Atlanta. Probably true, but equally irrelevant.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > > >
> > >
> > > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
> >
> > Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
>
> He does.
>
> > The crossposting
> > seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
>
> Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
The point is that Mu started the crossposting. And it is obvious that he
did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t. Ask
yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
follow Christ.
> > And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> > not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> > Nagler.
>
> My response was and remains specific for this thread.
And I try to see "the big picture".
> > > Truth is simple.
> >
> > Only to the simple-minded.
>
> And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
>
> > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> > >
> > > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
> >
> > I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> > into the mindset of Christians.
>
> Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
>
> "I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
Regarding what Christians did to his country, you have to admit that he
had a point.
> Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
> Ghandi.
Could you be a bit more specific on this? For what of his "failings" and
"intolerances" did he blame the Christians?
> It won't save you.
We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
>
> > > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
> >
> > Does not convince me.
>
> You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
> with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
> as your Lord and Savior.
I spent my last three school years in a Christian school, so I did visit
a church from time to time and was discussing religion with others
(Christians as well as atheists). And during all my schooltime I visited
the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Fri, 09 Jan 2004 19:07:00 -0500 in article <3FFF4224...@heartmdphd.com>
> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Matti Narkia wrote:
> >
> >> So you haven't been able to get hospital privileges.
> >
> >"I have been able to"
> >
> If so, I'm sure you don't mind sharing with us the name of the hospital.
You would be untruthful in your certainty
>
> You have nothing to hide, right?
>
Not to those who are truthful.
>
>
> >>
> >> >> I guess the hospitals know something we
> >> >> don't! Now there's an avenue ripe for exploration ... by somebody
> >> >> other than me.
> >> >
> >> >Old topic, Stephen.
> >> >
> >> The older the worse. That means that even after a lengthy time period you
> >> still haven't managed to get hospital privileges.
> >
> >"I have been able to"
> >
> If so, I'm sure you don't mind sharing with us the name of the hospital.
You would again be untruthful in your certainty
>
> You have nothing to hide, right?
>
Not to those who are truthful.
You poor guy.
May you be more truthful in 2004 by accepting Christ as your Lord and Savior.
You remain in my prayers, neighbor.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
You are correct, Francis.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> If someone finds it hurtful for whatever good will you have, I suggest
> you leave him alone.
What if that someone is in your house trying to rob you and simply asking him to stop robbing you hurts his
feeling?
Should I suggest to you to stop asking him to stop robbing you?
> That person, whoever he/she is, has to come to
> apreciate whatever spiritual being you believe in.
No, that person does not have to. This is free will.
> It is like
> 'seeking Buddha'.
Buddha is not God. Even Buddha knew this. Even his followers today should know this.
> That person has to do it from his heart, not from
> his logical understanding or rationalization of reality.
>
The person has to choose. The person has free will.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
He is saved by what it is in his heart and not by who he upsets or does not upset.
>
> > For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
> >
> > 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> > to the Father except through me..."
>
> I fail to see the relevance of this to this discussion.
>
We are discussing the truth.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
> > >
> > > The truth remains that this is beside the point.
> >
> > It is the point that I have made.
>
> You could just as well have made the point that the wheather is sunny in
> Atlanta. Probably true, but equally irrelevant.
>
Neither true nor equally.
>
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
> > >
> > > Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
> >
> > He does.
> >
> > > The crossposting
> > > seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
> >
> > Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
>
> I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
> header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
>
A couple of truth discerning questions:
Why would I request it when I am not bothered by it?
Why didn't you trim the header when you were bothered by it?
>
> The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
The truth is that you are not really bothered by the crossposting.
Indeed, your problem is with Mu whether he crossposts or not.
Go ahead and confess it.
The truth is easier. Your heart will become lighter.
> And it is obvious that he
> did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
Dr. Nagler has discredited himself. It would seem to me that Mu is trying to make the folks
at AST aware of it.
In truth, this is not a sin.
> Ask
> yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
> follow Christ.
>
It is as acceptable as when Saint Peter cut off the ear of someone who would harm Christ.
>
> > > And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> > > not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> > > Nagler.
> >
> > My response was and remains specific for this thread.
>
> And I try to see "the big picture".
>
It would seem that your obsessive hatred of Mu keeps you from seeing the forest from the
trees.
>
> > > > Truth is simple.
> > >
> > > Only to the simple-minded.
> >
> > And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
> >
> > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> > > >
> > > > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
> > >
> > > I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> > > into the mindset of Christians.
> >
> > Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
> >
> > "I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
>
> Regarding what Christians did to his country, you have to admit that he
> had a point.
>
It revealed a character flaw. His obsessive hatred of his neighbors kept him from seeing the
forest from the trees.
>
> > Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
> > Ghandi.
>
> Could you be a bit more specific on this?
See below.
> For what of his "failings" and
> "intolerances" did he blame the Christians?
>
His inability to accept Christ defined his failings and intolerances.
Instead of recognizing that this inability came from within, his statements revealed that he
blamed it on those whom he characterized as Christians.
>
> > It won't save you.
>
> We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
>
God has promised us eternal life because of our choice to have Christ in our hearts.
>
> >
> > > > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
> > >
> > > Does not convince me.
> >
> > You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
> > with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
> > as your Lord and Savior.
>
> I spent my last three school years in a Christian school,
Doesn't mean anything if you did not accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
> so I did visit
> a church from time to time and was discussing religion with others
> (Christians as well as atheists).
Not the same as studying God's Word (the Holy Bible).
> And during all my schooltime I visited
> the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
>
You'll also need to pray and ask that the Holy Spirit enter your heart.
>
> Thorsten
Truly, you remain in my prayers, Thorsten.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
Carol T
Dear Steven,
Which lord do you serve by weeding his vine yards?
If it is not mine, 'The Lord God' who gave His Son Jesus Christ to
save this world, please do not answer this.
For all my Lord's children love their neighbours?
Answer me this; Who is your neighbour?
Carol T
Carol T
> Best wishes to you, and if you wish to interject something once in a
> while it will be appreciated. We both know the result, of course. <g><<<<<<
Wishes sent to the God fearing are like hand waves to blind men.
Carol T
Carol T
>>>>>>> If someone finds it hurtful for whatever good will you have, I
suggest
> you leave him alone. That person, whoever he/she is, has to come to
> apreciate whatever spiritual being you believe in. It is like
> 'seeking Buddha'. That person has to do it from his heart, not from
> his logical understanding or rationalization of reality.<<<<<<<<<<
Dear Francis,
You may not know that the Buddha left his wife and new born child to
go in search of himself, not God. He did this at a time when leaving
women and children destitute was almost certain disgrace, or even
death.
His inner need for forgiveness and any depression would have increased
as his flock of followers did. Meditation can be used to suppress that
need, but not take it away. There is nothing usefully spiritual in
meditation for such suppression of sins, there is only self
punishment.
The Buddha carried a terrible burden of sins on himself and they were
mainly his own.
All those who followed him when he was alive were simply seekers of a
higher physical presence (not spiritual) after he died they idolised
him in a little fat doll and looked for the spiritual in it. Now
people speak to these little fat dolls like speaking to a trinket as
if it had ears. Many are troubled and can never achieve a suppression
of their own inner needs, but their little fat dolls keep them away
from God, so that they can't be saved and begin to live again. These
dolls hear no prayers and give no wisdom; there is no love in them and
no instruction for children.
Accepting Jesus as your saviour is not like 'seeking Buddha'
Carol T
Thorsten Schier
Saved or not, he behaves badly and I have the impression that you are
taking any stretch not to have to admit this.
> >
> > > For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
> > >
> > > 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> > > to the Father except through me..."
> >
> > I fail to see the relevance of this to this discussion.
> >
>
> We are discussing the truth.
The truth about crossposting and not of something Jesus said about
himself.
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > > > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > > > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
> > > >
> > > > The truth remains that this is beside the point.
> > >
> > > It is the point that I have made.
> >
> > You could just as well have made the point that the wheather is sunny in
> > Atlanta. Probably true, but equally irrelevant.
> >
>
> Neither true nor equally.
I'm afraid on the latter part we have just to agree to disagree.
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > > > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
> > > >
> > > > Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
> > >
> > > He does.
> > >
> > > > The crossposting
> > > > seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
> > >
> > > Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
> >
> > I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
> > header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
> >
>
> A couple of truth discerning questions:
>
> Why would I request it when I am not bothered by it?
Why would you tell me off for crossposting when:
1. You're not bothered by it
2. I'm just answering to a crossposted message of yours?
> Why didn't you trim the header when you were bothered by it?
Because the harm is already done with the first crosspost. All answering
posts appear in the same thread and for people who don't read it, it
should make no difference if there is one offtopic message more or less
in the thread (at least if they have a decent newsreader). On the other
hand, some people might want to know the reason for the crossposting and
the answers to the original crosspost might be of some help in this
respect, so to me it made some sense not to trim the header.
> >
> > The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
>
> The truth is that you are not really bothered by the crossposting.
I'm not personally bothered because I don't have tinnitus and therefor
don't usually read on a.s.t.
However, I understand if people on a.s.t are upset about the
crossposting and I think that the attempts to discredit Dr. Nagler
reflect poorly on Mu.
> Indeed, your problem is with Mu whether he crossposts or not.
>
> Go ahead and confess it.
>
> The truth is easier. Your heart will become lighter.
There is nothing to confess because I didn't hide anything.
My "problem" with Mu, if you want to put it that way, is his general
behaviour and the crossposting is part of this behaviour, but surely not
the only complaint one could have about him.
> > And it is obvious that he
> > did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
>
> Dr. Nagler has discredited himself. It would seem to me that Mu is trying to make the folks
> at AST aware of it.
Could you please point out in which way he discredited himself? There
may have a few emotional outbursts by him but I don't see how this
discredits him in any way similar to the way Mu discredits himself.
> In truth, this is not a sin.
I agree, because I don't believe in the concept of "sin".
> > Ask
> > yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
> > follow Christ.
> >
>
> It is as acceptable as when Saint Peter cut off the ear of someone who would harm Christ.
>
That seems to be your problem. Everywhere you see enemies of God and
Christ and you even see people posessed by Satan, unless that was some
kind of joke of yours. You should learn to accept other peoples believe
without seeing enemies of your faith in them.
> >
> > > > And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> > > > not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> > > > Nagler.
> > >
> > > My response was and remains specific for this thread.
> >
> > And I try to see "the big picture".
> >
>
> It would seem that your obsessive hatred of Mu keeps you from seeing the forest from the
> trees.
"obsessive hatred"? I don't hate Mu. You will be hard put to find any
evidence for that.
He might annoy me or I might be angry because of post or other by him
but it would take a lot more to make me hate someone.
Again, you seem to see everything black or white. I have either to love
Mu or I obsessivly hate him. People either follow Christ or they are his
enemies or even posessed by Satan. Reality isn't that simple.
> >
> > > > > Truth is simple.
> > > >
> > > > Only to the simple-minded.
> > >
> > > And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
> > >
> > > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> > > > >
> > > > > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
> > > >
> > > > I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> > > > into the mindset of Christians.
> > >
> > > Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
> > >
> > > "I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
> >
> > Regarding what Christians did to his country, you have to admit that he
> > had a point.
> >
>
> It revealed a character flaw. His obsessive hatred of his neighbors kept him from seeing the
> forest from the trees.
These "neighbors" had colonized and sugjugated his people and you wonder
why he had a hard time loving them?
> >
> > > Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
> > > Ghandi.
> >
> > Could you be a bit more specific on this?
>
> See below.
>
> > For what of his "failings" and
> > "intolerances" did he blame the Christians?
> >
>
> His inability to accept Christ defined his failings and intolerances.
Am I to understand that according to you everyone who does not accept
Christ as their Lord and Savior is intolerant?
> Instead of recognizing that this inability came from within, his statements revealed that he
> blamed it on those whom he characterized as Christians.
Are you denying that the people who subjugated India were Christians?
> >
> > > It won't save you.
> >
> > We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
> >
>
> God has promised us eternal life because of our choice to have Christ in our hearts.
I don't see how this should be possible.
> >
> > >
> > > > > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
> > > >
> > > > Does not convince me.
> > >
> > > You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
> > > with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
> > > as your Lord and Savior.
> >
> > I spent my last three school years in a Christian school,
>
> Doesn't mean anything if you did not accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
>
> > so I did visit
> > a church from time to time and was discussing religion with others
> > (Christians as well as atheists).
>
> Not the same as studying God's Word (the Holy Bible).
>
> > And during all my schooltime I visited
> > the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
> >
>
> You'll also need to pray and ask that the Holy Spirit enter your heart.
You will probably agree that it would do no good if I did this just to
be able to say: "I tried it and it didn't work.".
Btw:
This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but perhaps you
remember that we had a discussion some time ago as to why Mary and
Michael Eades (Authors of Protein Power) are not in the AMA-Database for
Arkansas.
I found out today that they have moved to Colorado and at least Mary Dan
Eades can be found in the AMA Database for this state.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
For Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 7:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you
judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it
will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in
your brother's eye and pay no
attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your
brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time
there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank
out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck
from your brother's eye.
> > >
> > > > For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
> > > >
> > > > 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> > > > to the Father except through me..."
> > >
> > > I fail to see the relevance of this to this discussion.
> > >
> >
> > We are discussing the truth.
>
> The truth about crossposting and not of something Jesus said about
> himself.
It was your claim that I did not care about the truth in general.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > > > > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > > > > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > The truth remains that this is beside the point.
> > > >
> > > > It is the point that I have made.
> > >
> > > You could just as well have made the point that the wheather is sunny in
> > > Atlanta. Probably true, but equally irrelevant.
> > >
> >
> > Neither true nor equally.
>
> I'm afraid on the latter part we have just to agree to disagree.
>
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > > > > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
> > > >
> > > > He does.
> > > >
> > > > > The crossposting
> > > > > seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
> > >
> > > I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
> > > header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
> > >
> >
> > A couple of truth discerning questions:
> >
> > Why would I request it when I am not bothered by it?
>
> Why would you tell me off for crossposting when:
Did not tell you off. Simply made an observation about your
hypocrisy. Sorry you are put off by your own actions.
> 1. You're not bothered by it
>
> 2. I'm just answering to a crossposted message of yours?
>
> > Why didn't you trim the header when you were bothered by it?
>
> Because the harm is already done with the first crosspost. All answering
> posts appear in the same thread and for people who don't read it, it
> should make no difference if there is one offtopic message more or less
> in the thread (at least if they have a decent newsreader). On the other
> hand, some people might want to know the reason for the crossposting and
> the answers to the original crosspost might be of some help in this
> respect, so to me it made some sense not to trim the header.
In a word: rationalization.
> > >
> > > The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
> >
> > The truth is that you are not really bothered by the crossposting.
>
> I'm not personally bothered because I don't have tinnitus and therefor
> don't usually read on a.s.t.
This illustrates how effectively God's gift of truth discernment
works.
> However, I understand if people on a.s.t are upset about the
> crossposting and I think that the attempts to discredit Dr. Nagler
> reflect poorly on Mu.
As I have pointed out before, it is Dr. Nagler who discredits himself.
> > Indeed, your problem is with Mu whether he crossposts or not.
> >
> > Go ahead and confess it.
> >
> > The truth is easier. Your heart will become lighter.
>
> There is nothing to confess because I didn't hide anything.
>
> My "problem" with Mu, if you want to put it that way, is his general
> behaviour and the crossposting is part of this behaviour, but surely not
> the only complaint one could have about him.
What other complaints do you have about him?
Go ahead and lighten your heart.
> > > And it is obvious that he
> > > did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
> >
> > Dr. Nagler has discredited himself. It would seem to me that Mu is trying to make the folks
> > at AST aware of it.
>
> Could you please point out in which way he discredited himself?
The truth is you already know.
> There
> may have a few emotional outbursts by him but I don't see how this
> discredits him
If I had those emotional outbursts, they would discredit me.
> in any way similar to the way Mu discredits himself.
If Mu had those emotional outbursts, they would discredit him.
> > In truth, this is not a sin.
>
> I agree,
Glad you agree.
> because I don't believe in the concept of "sin".
Your choice.
> > > Ask
> > > yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
> > > follow Christ.
> > >
> >
> > It is as acceptable as when Saint Peter cut off the ear of someone who would harm Christ.
> >
>
> That seems to be your problem. Everywhere you see enemies of God and
> Christ
Not everywhere.
> and you even see people posessed by Satan,
I do.
> unless that was some
> kind of joke of yours.
No joke, Thorsten.
Looking back in history, your country's Fuhrer probably was possessed
by Satan.
> You should learn to accept other peoples believe
> without seeing enemies of your faith in them.
FYI, Satan is not an enemy of my faith but an affirmation of it.
However, Satan is an enemy of God whom I serve.
> > >
> > > > > And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> > > > > not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> > > > > Nagler.
> > > >
> > > > My response was and remains specific for this thread.
> > >
> > > And I try to see "the big picture".
> > >
> >
> > It would seem that your obsessive hatred of Mu keeps you from seeing the forest from the
> > trees.
>
> "obsessive hatred"? I don't hate Mu. You will be hard put to find any
> evidence for that.
God knows though I might not.
> He might annoy me or I might be angry because of post or other by him
> but it would take a lot more to make me hate someone.
>
> Again, you seem to see everything black or white. I have either to love
> Mu or I obsessivly hate him.
Mu is that kind of person.
> People either follow Christ or they are his
> enemies or even posessed by Satan.
or they are lost sheep waiting to be saved...
Seems like more that just black or white to me.
> Reality isn't that simple.
But truth is.
> > >
> > > > > > Truth is simple.
> > > > >
> > > > > Only to the simple-minded.
> > > >
> > > > And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
> > > >
> > > > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> > > > > into the mindset of Christians.
> > > >
> > > > Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
> > > >
> > > > "I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
> > >
> > > Regarding what Christians did to his country, you have to admit that he
> > > had a point.
> > >
> >
> > It revealed a character flaw. His obsessive hatred of his neighbors kept him from seeing the
> > forest from the trees.
>
> These "neighbors" had colonized and sugjugated his people and you wonder
> why he had a hard time loving them?
Accepting Christ's help would have made it possible for him to love
his enemies.
> > >
> > > > Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
> > > > Ghandi.
> > >
> > > Could you be a bit more specific on this?
> >
> > See below.
> >
> > > For what of his "failings" and
> > > "intolerances" did he blame the Christians?
> > >
> >
> > His inability to accept Christ defined his failings and intolerances.
>
> Am I to understand that according to you everyone who does not accept
> Christ as their Lord and Savior is intolerant?
Without Christ, it is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to truly
love your enemies.
> > Instead of recognizing that this inability came from within, his statements revealed that he
> > blamed it on those whom he characterized as Christians.
>
> Are you denying that the people who subjugated India were Christians?
See Matthew 7:1-5 as cited above.
> > >
> > > > It won't save you.
> > >
> > > We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
> > >
> >
> > God has promised us eternal life because of our choice to have Christ in our hearts.
>
> I don't see how this should be possible.
With God anything is possible.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does not convince me.
> > > >
> > > > You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
> > > > with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
> > > > as your Lord and Savior.
> > >
> > > I spent my last three school years in a Christian school,
> >
> > Doesn't mean anything if you did not accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
> >
> > > so I did visit
> > > a church from time to time and was discussing religion with others
> > > (Christians as well as atheists).
> >
> > Not the same as studying God's Word (the Holy Bible).
> >
> > > And during all my schooltime I visited
> > > the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
> > >
> >
> > You'll also need to pray and ask that the Holy Spirit enter your heart.
>
> You will probably agree that it would do no good if I did this just to
> be able to say: "I tried it and it didn't work.".
No, I would definitely not agree.
> Btw:
>
> This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but perhaps you
> remember that we had a discussion some time ago as to why Mary and
> Michael Eades (Authors of Protein Power) are not in the AMA-Database for
> Arkansas.
>
> I found out today that they have moved to Colorado and at least Mary Dan
> Eades can be found in the AMA Database for this state.
Fwiw,
The Mary Dan Eades, MD listed in the AMA database for Colorado
apparently only completed an internship and did not finish a
residency. Nor is she apparently board-certified.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
For Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 7:
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you
judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it
will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in
your brother's eye and pay no
attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your
brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time
there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank
out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck
from your brother's eye.
> > >
> > > > For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:
> > > >
> > > > 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
> > > > to the Father except through me..."
> > >
> > > I fail to see the relevance of this to this discussion.
> > >
> >
> > We are discussing the truth.
>
> The truth about crossposting and not of something Jesus said about
> himself.
It was your claim that I did not care about the truth in general.
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
> > > > > > > least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
> > > > > > > s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The truth remains that Dr. Nagler started this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > The truth remains that this is beside the point.
> > > >
> > > > It is the point that I have made.
> > >
> > > You could just as well have made the point that the wheather is sunny in
> > > Atlanta. Probably true, but equally irrelevant.
> > >
> >
> > Neither true nor equally.
>
> I'm afraid on the latter part we have just to agree to disagree.
>
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dr. Nagler didn't start a single thread in a.s.t, either by crossposting
> > > > > > > or otherwise, at least not since the 19. of December last year.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do.
> > > >
> > > > He does.
> > > >
> > > > > The crossposting
> > > > > seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
> > > >
> > > > Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
> > >
> > > I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
> > > header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
> > >
> >
> > A couple of truth discerning questions:
> >
> > Why would I request it when I am not bothered by it?
>
> Why would you tell me off for crossposting when:
Did not tell you off. Simply made an observation about your
hypocrisy. Sorry you are put off by your own actions.
> 1. You're not bothered by it
>
> 2. I'm just answering to a crossposted message of yours?
>
> > Why didn't you trim the header when you were bothered by it?
>
> Because the harm is already done with the first crosspost. All answering
> posts appear in the same thread and for people who don't read it, it
> should make no difference if there is one offtopic message more or less
> in the thread (at least if they have a decent newsreader). On the other
> hand, some people might want to know the reason for the crossposting and
> the answers to the original crosspost might be of some help in this
> respect, so to me it made some sense not to trim the header.
In a word: rationalization.
> > >
> > > The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
> >
> > The truth is that you are not really bothered by the crossposting.
>
> I'm not personally bothered because I don't have tinnitus and therefor
> don't usually read on a.s.t.
This illustrates how effectively God's gift of truth discernment
works.
> However, I understand if people on a.s.t are upset about the
> crossposting and I think that the attempts to discredit Dr. Nagler
> reflect poorly on Mu.
As I have pointed out before, it is Dr. Nagler who discredits himself.
> > Indeed, your problem is with Mu whether he crossposts or not.
> >
> > Go ahead and confess it.
> >
> > The truth is easier. Your heart will become lighter.
>
> There is nothing to confess because I didn't hide anything.
>
> My "problem" with Mu, if you want to put it that way, is his general
> behaviour and the crossposting is part of this behaviour, but surely not
> the only complaint one could have about him.
What other complaints do you have about him?
Go ahead and lighten your heart.
> > > And it is obvious that he
> > > did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
> >
> > Dr. Nagler has discredited himself. It would seem to me that Mu is trying to make the folks
> > at AST aware of it.
>
> Could you please point out in which way he discredited himself?
The truth is you already know.
> There
> may have a few emotional outbursts by him but I don't see how this
> discredits him
If I had those emotional outbursts, they would discredit me.
> in any way similar to the way Mu discredits himself.
If Mu had those emotional outbursts, they would discredit him.
> > In truth, this is not a sin.
>
> I agree,
Glad you agree.
> because I don't believe in the concept of "sin".
Your choice.
> > > Ask
> > > yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
> > > follow Christ.
> > >
> >
> > It is as acceptable as when Saint Peter cut off the ear of someone who would harm Christ.
> >
>
> That seems to be your problem. Everywhere you see enemies of God and
> Christ
Not everywhere.
> and you even see people posessed by Satan,
I do.
> unless that was some
> kind of joke of yours.
No joke, Thorsten.
Looking back in history, your country's Fuhrer probably was possessed
by Satan.
> You should learn to accept other peoples believe
> without seeing enemies of your faith in them.
FYI, Satan is not an enemy of my faith but an affirmation of it.
However, Satan is an enemy of God whom I serve.
> > >
> > > > > And if you had taken a look at alt.support.tinnitus, you would know that
> > > > > not all the eleven threads started by Mu there were in response to Dr.
> > > > > Nagler.
> > > >
> > > > My response was and remains specific for this thread.
> > >
> > > And I try to see "the big picture".
> > >
> >
> > It would seem that your obsessive hatred of Mu keeps you from seeing the forest from the
> > trees.
>
> "obsessive hatred"? I don't hate Mu. You will be hard put to find any
> evidence for that.
God knows though I might not.
> He might annoy me or I might be angry because of post or other by him
> but it would take a lot more to make me hate someone.
>
> Again, you seem to see everything black or white. I have either to love
> Mu or I obsessivly hate him.
Mu is that kind of person.
> People either follow Christ or they are his
> enemies or even posessed by Satan.
or they are lost sheep waiting to be saved...
Seems like more that just black or white to me.
> Reality isn't that simple.
But truth is.
> > >
> > > > > > Truth is simple.
> > > > >
> > > > > Only to the simple-minded.
> > > >
> > > > And, so the simple-minded shall be blessed.
> > > >
> > > > > > May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, neighbor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Start by reading the Holy Bible.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do read in the Bible from time to time. Gives an interesting insight
> > > > > into the mindset of Christians.
> > > >
> > > > Reminds me of Ghandi who once said something like this:
> > > >
> > > > "I like your Christ. It is you Christians that I can't stand."
> > >
> > > Regarding what Christians did to his country, you have to admit that he
> > > had a point.
> > >
> >
> > It revealed a character flaw. His obsessive hatred of his neighbors kept him from seeing the
> > forest from the trees.
>
> These "neighbors" had colonized and sugjugated his people and you wonder
> why he had a hard time loving them?
Accepting Christ's help would have made it possible for him to love
his enemies.
> > >
> > > > Blaming others for his own failings and intolerances didn't save
> > > > Ghandi.
> > >
> > > Could you be a bit more specific on this?
> >
> > See below.
> >
> > > For what of his "failings" and
> > > "intolerances" did he blame the Christians?
> > >
> >
> > His inability to accept Christ defined his failings and intolerances.
>
> Am I to understand that according to you everyone who does not accept
> Christ as their Lord and Savior is intolerant?
Without Christ, it is extremely difficult (if not impossible) to truly
love your enemies.
> > Instead of recognizing that this inability came from within, his statements revealed that he
> > blamed it on those whom he characterized as Christians.
>
> Are you denying that the people who subjugated India were Christians?
See Matthew 7:1-5 as cited above.
> > >
> > > > It won't save you.
> > >
> > > We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
> > >
> >
> > God has promised us eternal life because of our choice to have Christ in our hearts.
>
> I don't see how this should be possible.
With God anything is possible.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > > John 3:16 will give you a good preview.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does not convince me.
> > > >
> > > > You should pray about it. Visit a Christian church. Study the Bible
> > > > with others at the church. May the Holy Spirit move you to accept Christ
> > > > as your Lord and Savior.
> > >
> > > I spent my last three school years in a Christian school,
> >
> > Doesn't mean anything if you did not accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.
> >
> > > so I did visit
> > > a church from time to time and was discussing religion with others
> > > (Christians as well as atheists).
> >
> > Not the same as studying God's Word (the Holy Bible).
> >
> > > And during all my schooltime I visited
> > > the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
> > >
> >
> > You'll also need to pray and ask that the Holy Spirit enter your heart.
>
> You will probably agree that it would do no good if I did this just to
> be able to say: "I tried it and it didn't work.".
No, I would definitely not agree.
> Btw:
>
> This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, but perhaps you
> remember that we had a discussion some time ago as to why Mary and
> Michael Eades (Authors of Protein Power) are not in the AMA-Database for
> Arkansas.
>
> I found out today that they have moved to Colorado and at least Mary Dan
> Eades can be found in the AMA Database for this state.
Fwiw,
The Mary Dan Eades, MD listed in the AMA database for Colorado
apparently only completed an internship and did not finish a
residency. Nor is she apparently board-certified.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
francispoon
Did not know all that interesting stories about this Buddha but i was
talking about a style by which one side tries to instill religious
belief on the other side. It took me a long time to come to know
Christ and I managed to do that only after witnessing how my pastor,
who used to be a nasty kid a long time ago, 'behaved' as a living
example of a believer.
FP
>
>
> Carol T
Stephen Nagler
Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>For Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 7:
>
>1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you
>judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it
>will be measured to you.
But Dr. Chung also wrote:
>Your words betrayed what is in your heart, Stephen.
and
>Dr. Nagler has discredited himself.
Those are two judgement calls. Dr. Chung may possibly try to respond
with something to the effect that they are "facts" and not
"judgements" - but that, too, would be a judgement call. Dr. Chung
cannot know what is in my heart. Only God and I know what is in my
heart. And while I may have discredited myself by my outburst in Dr.
Chung's eyes, I clearly have not in Mr. Schier's eyes.
I am not telling anybody here what to think - or how to think.
I have been asked to stay here and try to contribute. I did so in the
"This question is for you, Dr. Nagler" thread, and I am willing to
continue to do so - post on-topic - from time to time, since a few
folk have said here that that is their wish.
But for Dr. Chung to one moment quote Scripture that counsels against
one man judging another, when he himself has been doing just that -
will it's a little hard to ignore when my own name is brought up in
the mix.
smn
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> On 11 Jan 2004 00:06:14 -0800, nos...@heartmdphd.com (Dr. Andrew B.
> Chung, MD/PhD) wrote:
>
> >For Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 7:
> >
> >1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you
> >judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it
> >will be measured to you.
>
> But Dr. Chung also wrote:
>
> >Your words betrayed what is in your heart, Stephen.
>
> and
>
> >Dr. Nagler has discredited himself.
>
> Those are two judgement calls.
Sorry, Stephen, but they are not.
You shouldn't ignore the example that Jesus' gives to help us understand
His teaching.
> Dr. Chung may possibly try to respond
> with something to the effect that they are "facts" and not
> "judgements" - but that, too, would be a judgement call.
Instead, I respond with God's Word:
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay
no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your
brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time
there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank
out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck
from your brother's eye.
May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.
Amen.
Stephen,
Christ has removed the "plank" from my heart. Now I am trying to help
you remove the "plank" from of yours. I believe I can do it with Jesus'
help but not against your free will (after all you could choose to turn
a blind eye to this discussion and leave anytime *again* per your free
will).
> Dr. Chung
> cannot know what is in my heart.
Unless you tell me either consciously or unconsciously.
> Only God and I know what is in my
> heart.
Only God knows "everything" that is in your heart. Even you don't know
"everything" that is in your heart.
> And while I may have discredited myself by my outburst in Dr.
> Chung's eyes, I clearly have not in Mr. Schier's eyes.
The latter is not clear. For Mr. Schier defends you with Mu's behavior.
> I am not telling anybody here what to think - or how to think.
The truth may be something different.
> I have been asked to stay here and try to contribute. I did so in the
> "This question is for you, Dr. Nagler" thread, and I am willing to
> continue to do so - post on-topic - from time to time, since a few
> folk have said here that that is their wish.
It remains your free will to either stay...
go...
go and come back...
or wander back and forth aimlessly.
>
> But for Dr. Chung to one moment quote Scripture that counsels against
> one man judging another, when he himself has been doing just that -
> will it's a little hard to ignore when my own name is brought up in
> the mix.
Truth is hard to ignore.
> smn
It gladdens my heart to see you return and to know that you continue to
read that which I write. You really should read the entire New
Testament if you have not already. Study it. Pray about it. Ask that
the Holy Spirit come into your heart to help you accept Christ as your
Lord and Savior.
Truly, I continue to pray for you, Stephen.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-certified Cardiologist
http:/www.heartmdphd.com/
Stephen Nagler
>"You shouldn't ignore the example that Jesus'
>gives to help us understand His teaching."
>For Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 7:
>"Do not judge, or you too will be judged."
But more importantly for right now ...
From Matthew 1:11:04:
"Dad, can we leave for my Georgia ODP soccer tryout in Peachtree City
now?"
Response from Stephen 1:11:04:
Sure, Matt. I'll be right there, Son.
And so it goes.
smn
Carol T
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It took me a long time to come to know
> Christ and I managed to do that only after witnessing how my pastor,
> who used to be a nasty kid a long time ago, 'behaved' as a living
> example of a believer.<<<<<<<
What of your good news?
Carol T
Carol T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What happens between you and Dr. Chung is strictly
> between the two of you and has nothing to do with those who do need
> your help. <<<<<<<
Who is Dr Chung's partner that you say it has nothing to do with your neighbours?
Carol T
Volcanic Io M_un
<Moo...@firemail.de> wrote:
>Would you care to take a look at alt.support.tinnitus?
>
>You will find that Mu started no less then eleven threads there (at
>least the way my newsreader displays it), all by crossposting from
>s.m.c., most of them being attacks on Dr. Nagler.
That would be thirteen, get a decent server, attacks is a relative and
subjective term and you are doing a fine job of extending the Xpost.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971110.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
Volcanic Io M_un
<Moo...@firemail.de> wrote:
>> If Dr. Nagler did not start this thread, there would be nothing to crosspost.
>Dr. Nagler has as much right to post here than you do. The crossposting
>seems to be entirely Mu's fault.
If you like fault, good. I start and Xpost constantly. If you find
fault, then so be it.
Btw, you are Xposting. I call this hypocrisy.
Volcanic Io M_un
<Moo...@firemail.de> wrote:
>Then why are you turning a blind eye to the less then perfect behaviour
>of your friend (and brother) Mu?
You judge my behavior as imperfect. I can live with that.
>> Actually, you are the one continuing the cross-posting.
>
>I answered to a post of yours and as you did not request to trim the
>header, I didn't do so (sounds familiar, doesn't it :-).
And I have reinstated the Xpost.
>The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
Sure did.
>And it is obvious that he
>did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
Nagler is what he writes, If he is discredited, he did it to himself.
If I Xpost his comments, and they discredit him, reveal him from out
of the shadows, then it is his problem, not mine.
> Ask
>yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
>follow Christ.
I ask Christ. He has yet to afflict my fingers. He can see everything
I am doing and will do with me what he damn well pleases.
>We all have to die some time, Christian or not.
Some, like you, will die two deaths.
Volcanic Io M_un
>> The point is that Mu started the crossposting.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2004 13:22:44 -0500, "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<cardio...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>The truth is that you are not really bothered by the crossposting.
>
>Indeed, your problem is with Mu whether he crossposts or not.
>
>Go ahead and confess it.
>
>The truth is easier. Your heart will become lighter.
Yes, this is about TS's issues with me and the issues he has with
himself, primarily.
>> And it is obvious that he
>> did so in a feeble attempt to discredit Dr. Nagler on a.s.t.
>
>Dr. Nagler has discredited himself. It would seem to me that Mu is trying to make the folks
>at AST aware of it.
One cannot hide under a Usenet rock.
>> Ask
>> yourself if such behaviour is acceptable for someone who claims to
>> follow Christ.
>>
>
>It is as acceptable as when Saint Peter cut off the ear of someone who would harm Christ.
I admit imperfection. TS. duh.
>It would seem that your obsessive hatred of Mu keeps you from seeing the forest from the
>trees.
Obsessive, indeed.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> But more importantly for right now ...
>
> From Matthew 1:11:04:
> "Dad, can we leave for my Georgia ODP soccer tryout in Peachtree City
> now?"
>
> Response from Stephen 1:11:04:
> Sure, Matt. I'll be right there, Son.
>
> And so it goes.
>
Free will, Stephen. Imagine how you would react if a group of people
crucified Matt. Now choose to read about how God reacted in the New
Testament.
>
> smn
Christ continues to teach us with this example in Matthew 7:
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay
no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your
brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time
there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank
out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck
from your brother's eye.
May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.
Amen.
Dear Stephen,
In Jesus's name, I pray that you will allow God to help you remove that
plank in your heart.
Humbly,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com
Volcanic Io M_un
<Moo...@firemail.de> wrote:
>Saved or not, Mu behaves badly and I have the impression that you are
>taking any stretch not to have to admit this.
I behave badly. You behave badly. We all behave badly. Your SOL. I'm
saved.
>Why would you tell me off for crossposting when:
>
>1. You're not bothered by it
>
>2. I'm just answering to a crossposted message of yours?
>
>> Why didn't you trim the header when you were bothered by it?
>
>Because the harm is already done with the first crosspost.
Then there is no harm if I reinstate the Xpost, is there, according to
your logic.
Xpost reinstated.
>However, I understand if people on a.s.t are upset about the
>crossposting and I think that the attempts to discredit Dr. Nagler
>reflect poorly on Mu.
It' s my reflection so leave me to it. Btw, I suppose you are trying
to reflect "well" on me, huh?
>My "problem" with Mu, if you want to put it that way, is his general
>behaviour and the crossposting is part of this behaviour, but surely not
>the only complaint one could have about him.
Surely not. Have at Mu.
>That seems to be your problem. Everywhere you see enemies of God and
>Christ and you even see people posessed by Satan, unless that was some
>kind of joke of yours. You should learn to accept other peoples believe
>without seeing enemies of your faith in them.
Christ defined them as His enemies, Mu and Chung did not.
> People either follow Christ or they are his
>enemies or even posessed by Satan. Reality isn't that simple.
Yes, it is that simple and the NT is very clear on this.
>> His inability to accept Christ defined his failings and intolerances.
>
>Am I to understand that according to you everyone who does not accept
>Christ as their Lord and Savior is intolerant?
Yes, intolerant of the Truth.
>> God has promised us eternal life because of our choice to have Christ in our hearts.
>
>I don't see how this should be possible.
Obviously. The unsaved do not, usually.
>> > And during all my schooltime I visited
>> > the usual lessons in religion. I wasn't convinced.
Neither was I and I grew up for 12 long years under the Catholic
interpretation of Christianity.
Volcanic Io M_un
wrote:
>>Dr. Nagler has discredited himself.
>
>Those are two judgement calls.
One actually but I can say this straightaway.
You are a liar, Stephen; you have not left SMC as you have claimed for
over a week t be doing.
Your lies discredit you.
>I have been asked to stay here and try to contribute. I did so in the
>"This question is for you, Dr. Nagler" thread, and I am willing to
>continue to do so - post on-topic - from time to time, since a few
>folk have said here that that is their wish.
They said that all along, Stephen, even when you were lying like a dog
about leaving SMC.
>But for Dr. Chung to one moment quote Scripture that counsels against
>one man judging another, when he himself has been doing just that -
>will it's a little hard to ignore when my own name is brought up in
>the mix.
See above.
Volcanic Io M_un
wrote:
>But more importantly for right now ...
>
>From Matthew 1:11:04:
>"Dad, can we leave for my Georgia ODP soccer tryout in Peachtree City
>now?"
Good luck. From a former ODP coach and soccer referee. Have a blast on
the pitch.
Volcanic Io M_un
wrote:
>Though i was born and raised in a Christian background, I do
>appreciate people from all sorts of religious backgrounds to pray for
>me or give me good wishes.
I appreciate their good intentions but know that that is all they are,
good intentions with no spiritual value for me.
Bob
I realize you have an issue with Stephen, and you want all of a.s.t. to know
about that, but honestly, we at a.s.t. would rather not participate. Your
posts are likely to drive away people who could use some help dealing with
their tinnitus.
Please, sir, stop. Please?
BillyBob
"Volcanic Io M_un" <sho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:86a300peibpq9ufur...@4ax.com...
Logicman
> One cannot hide under a Usenet rock.
Recognizing the bit of whimsical comparison in it, it's still not
logical. This person who wrote the post is hiding under a "Usenet rock."
logic