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Spooky alignment of quasars across billions of light-years
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Yousuf Khan
Nov 20, 2014, 8:11:15 PM11/20/14
to
> New observations with the European Southern Observatory’s Very Large Telescope (VLT) in Chile have revealed alignments of the largest structures ever discovered in the universe. A European research team has found that the rotation axes of the central supermassive black holes in a sample of quasars are parallel to each other over distances of billions of light-years. The team also has found that the rotation axes of these quasars tend to be aligned with the vast structures in the cosmic web in which they reside.
This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2014/11/spooky-alignment-of-quasars-across-billions-of-light-years
Yousuf Khan
This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
http://www.astronomy.com/news/2014/11/spooky-alignment-of-quasars-across-billions-of-light-years
Yousuf Khan
7
Nov 21, 2014, 7:08:01 PM11/21/14
to
Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> New observations with the European Southern Observatory’s Very Large
>> Telescope (VLT) in Chile have revealed alignments of the largest
>> structures ever discovered in the universe. A European research team has
>> found that the rotation axes of the central supermassive black holes in a
>> sample of quasars are parallel to each other over distances of billions
>> of light-years. The team also has found that the rotation axes of these
>> quasars tend to be aligned with the vast structures in the cosmic web in
>> which they reside.
>
> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
> universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
> the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
Doubt it - the flow of matter along filaments will have influenced
>> New observations with the European Southern Observatory’s Very Large
>> Telescope (VLT) in Chile have revealed alignments of the largest
>> structures ever discovered in the universe. A European research team has
>> found that the rotation axes of the central supermassive black holes in a
>> sample of quasars are parallel to each other over distances of billions
>> of light-years. The team also has found that the rotation axes of these
>> quasars tend to be aligned with the vast structures in the cosmic web in
>> which they reside.
>
> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
> universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
> the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
where the quasar formed and what directions it can point at in general
because the flow would influence the spin direction and thus the
direction the quasar can point its jet.
> http://www.astronomy.com/news/2014/11/spooky-alignment-of-quasars-across-billions-of-light-years
>
> Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
Nov 23, 2014, 10:53:04 PM11/23/14
to
On 21/11/2014 7:07 PM, 7 wrote:
them being parallel to the flow direction of the filament at that
particular location of the filament, but the filament meanders in many
different directions all over the place.
Yousuf Khan
> Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
>> universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
>> the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
>
> Doubt it - the flow of matter along filaments will have influenced
> where the quasar formed and what directions it can point at in general
> because the flow would influence the spin direction and thus the
> direction the quasar can point its jet.
Maybe, but why would they be parallel to each other? I can understand
>> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the entire
>> universe. The alignments have similarities to quantum entanglement at
>> the microscopic level, except this is at the cosmological level.
>
> Doubt it - the flow of matter along filaments will have influenced
> where the quasar formed and what directions it can point at in general
> because the flow would influence the spin direction and thus the
> direction the quasar can point its jet.
them being parallel to the flow direction of the filament at that
particular location of the filament, but the filament meanders in many
different directions all over the place.
Yousuf Khan
Steve Willner
Nov 24, 2014, 5:12:50 PM11/24/14
to
In article <546e9131$1...@news.bnb-lp.com>,
http://dx.doi.org/10.1051/0004-6361/201424631
It claims to be free access, but in case not, there's a preprint at
http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.6098
The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
when more data are collected.
> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the
> entire universe.
This seems wild speculation. Something to do with angular momentum
or even magnetic fields strike me as far more likely explanations if
the effect is real.
--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@cfa.harvard.edu
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
Yousuf Khan <bbb...@spammenot.yahoo.com> writes:
> A European research team has found that the rotation axes of the
> central supermassive black holes in a sample of quasars are
> parallel to each other over distances of billions of light-years.
The actual article is at
> A European research team has found that the rotation axes of the
> central supermassive black holes in a sample of quasars are
> parallel to each other over distances of billions of light-years.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1051/0004-6361/201424631
It claims to be free access, but in case not, there's a preprint at
http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.6098
The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
when more data are collected.
> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the
> entire universe.
or even magnetic fields strike me as far more likely explanations if
the effect is real.
--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@cfa.harvard.edu
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA
Yousuf Khan
Nov 26, 2014, 2:32:41 AM11/26/14
to
On 24/11/2014 5:12 PM, Steve Willner wrote:
> The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
> not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
> when more data are collected.
Yes, that's just what 2-sigma accuracy (1-sigma being 95%)? But there's
> The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
> not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
> when more data are collected.
been a lot of interesting little connections between quasars being made
over multiple billion light-year distances. Some of these structures are
the biggest structures in the universe, if they are indeed structures.
>> This might be the largest quantum mechanical effect in the
>> entire universe.
>
> This seems wild speculation. Something to do with angular momentum
> or even magnetic fields strike me as far more likely explanations if
> the effect is real.
have to explain how the angular momenta and magnetic fields got into
this alignment over such vast distances.
Yousuf Khan
Poutnik
Nov 26, 2014, 4:35:24 AM11/26/14
to
On 11/26/2014 08:32 AM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 24/11/2014 5:12 PM, Steve Willner wrote:
>> The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
>> not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
>> when more data are collected.
At usual lab measurements, 95% and 99% confidence intervals are the most
> On 24/11/2014 5:12 PM, Steve Willner wrote:
>> The authors claim statistical significance at the 99% level, which is
>> not all that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the effect goes away
>> when more data are collected.
usual values.
>
> Yes, that's just what 2-sigma accuracy (1-sigma being 95%)?
It follows Normal distribution.
> Yes, that's just what 2-sigma accuracy (1-sigma being 95%)?
1 sigma is about 68%
2 sigma is about 95% ( 95% is AFAIK 1.96 sigma )
3 sigma is about 99.7% - IIRC.
--
Poutnik
A wise man guards words he says,
as they may say about him more, than he says about the subject.
Hannu Poropudas
Dec 12, 2014, 6:47:30 AM12/12/14
to
on the drawing which was color drawing about time-space structure of galaxy.
I don't know if this "Road of Worlds" could have anything to do with these galaxy filaments which was mentioned in above article (original arXiv version)to be in large-scale structure of the Universe?
Hannu
Robert Clark
Dec 26, 2014, 8:31:38 PM12/26/14
to
Einstein referred to the quantum physics explanation of instantaneous
realization of physical states of correlated particles no matter the
distance between them as "spooky action at a distance."
However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
beforehand, and not just when they are observed. This is the De Broglie–Bohm
interpretation of quantum mechanics. This interpretation though would
require superluminal speeds.
Mathematically it also possible for superluminal speeds to exist and still
be in agreement with the experiments that have been *interpreted* to support
relativity. That is, the experiments that are regarded as supporting
relativity also have mathematical interpretations where superluminal speeds
are allowed. It's just that superluminal speeds have not yet been observed.
Bob Clark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago
with the Titan II first stage.
In fact, contrary to popular belief SSTO's are actually easy.
Just use the most efficient engines and stages at the same time,
and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: Http://Exoscientist.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
===============================================================
"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message news:5475...@news.bnb-lp.com...
realization of physical states of correlated particles no matter the
distance between them as "spooky action at a distance."
However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
beforehand, and not just when they are observed. This is the De Broglie–Bohm
interpretation of quantum mechanics. This interpretation though would
require superluminal speeds.
Mathematically it also possible for superluminal speeds to exist and still
be in agreement with the experiments that have been *interpreted* to support
relativity. That is, the experiments that are regarded as supporting
relativity also have mathematical interpretations where superluminal speeds
are allowed. It's just that superluminal speeds have not yet been observed.
Bob Clark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago
with the Titan II first stage.
In fact, contrary to popular belief SSTO's are actually easy.
Just use the most efficient engines and stages at the same time,
and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: Http://Exoscientist.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
===============================================================
"Yousuf Khan" wrote in message news:5475...@news.bnb-lp.com...
Steve Willner
Jan 6, 2015, 12:23:38 PM1/6/15
to
[Newsgroups snipped.]
In article <m7l250$2d9$2...@dont-email.me>,
plenty of information.
> However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
> beforehand, and not just when they are observed.
This seems to be a version of "hidden variables." While those are
indeed mathematically possible, experiment appears to rule them out
in the real world.
In article <m7l250$2d9$2...@dont-email.me>,
"Robert Clark" <rgrego...@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> writes:
> Einstein referred to the quantum physics explanation of instantaneous
> realization of physical states of correlated particles no matter the
> distance between them as "spooky action at a distance."
A web search on "Einstein Podolsky Rosen paradox" should turn up
> Einstein referred to the quantum physics explanation of instantaneous
> realization of physical states of correlated particles no matter the
> distance between them as "spooky action at a distance."
plenty of information.
> However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
> beforehand, and not just when they are observed.
indeed mathematically possible, experiment appears to rule them out
in the real world.
Jeff-Relf.Me
Jan 7, 2015, 6:01:44 AM1/7/15
to
Steve·Willner, replying to Robert·Clark and Yousuf·Khan, wrote:
> > However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
> > beforehand, and not just when they are observed.
>
> This seems to be a version of "hidden variables."
> While those are indeed mathematically possible,
> experiment appears to rule them out in the real world.
Steve uses the word "appears" because the facts aren't known.
> > However, mathematically it is possible that these states did exist
> > beforehand, and not just when they are observed.
>
> This seems to be a version of "hidden variables."
> While those are indeed mathematically possible,
> experiment appears to rule them out in the real world.
If ·all· facts were known, "The Principle of Locality"[*] would apply, surely.
[ *: Wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Local_realism ]
"Bell's Test"[*] experiments show what we do NOT know; that's all.
[ *: Wikipedia.ORG/wiki/Bell_test_experiments ]
To date, no test has ·simultaneously· closed all loopholes
to the idea that entangled particles violate Local Realism.
Einstein knew that randomness is ignorance, nothing more, nothing less;
and he was right, I'm sure.
1940, New York, at "The Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion"[*]
Eintein said: ＜＜
When the number of factors coming into play in
a phenomenological complex is too large,
scientific method, in most cases, fails us.
One need only think of the weather, in which case,
prediction even for a few days ahead is impossible.
Nevertheless no one doubts that we are confronted with
a causal connection whose causal components are, in the main,
known to us.
Occurrences in this domain are beyond the reach of exact prediction
because of the variety of factors in operation,
not because of any lack of order in nature. ＞＞ ＜＜
science not only purifies the religious impulse of
the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contributes to
a religious spiritualization of our understanding of life. ＞＞
*: OnBeing.ORG/program/einstein039s-god-einstein039s-ethics/extra/einstein-science-and-religion-1940/1986
Robert Clark
Jan 7, 2015, 11:00:43 AM1/7/15
to
Rather that being ruled out, "hidden variables" haven't been observed. This
does not mean they do not exist. For instance, it could be scaling up the
energy level of the Large Hadron Collider to, say, twice the current level
reveals particles that are superluminal. Then "hidden variable" theories
become preferred.
BTW, there was a recent report of some experiments that cast doubt on the
current "Copenhagen" interpretation of quantum mechanics. I'll see if I can
find some refs on that.
Bob Clark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago
with the Titan II first stage.
In fact, contrary to popular belief SSTO's are actually easy.
Just use the most efficient engines and stages at the same time,
and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: Http://Exoscientist.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
==========================================================
Tom Roberts
Jan 7, 2015, 11:46:02 AM1/7/15
to
[I'm not sure what this has to do with the subject; I'm just responding to this
statement.]
On 1/7/15 1/7/15 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> Rather that being ruled out, "hidden variables" haven't been observed.
Hmmm. This depends on what you mean.
The correlations generated by quantum entanglement are incompatible with any
hidden-variables theory that is LOCAL. This is a famous result proved by J. S.
Bell in 1964.
Experimental tests of such correlations show quantum mechanics is correct within
experimental errors. So in that sense, LOCAL hidden variables are indeed "ruled
out".
There is a HUGE literature on this....
Tom Roberts
statement.]
On 1/7/15 1/7/15 10:01 AM, Robert Clark wrote:
> Rather that being ruled out, "hidden variables" haven't been observed.
The correlations generated by quantum entanglement are incompatible with any
hidden-variables theory that is LOCAL. This is a famous result proved by J. S.
Bell in 1964.
Experimental tests of such correlations show quantum mechanics is correct within
experimental errors. So in that sense, LOCAL hidden variables are indeed "ruled
out".
There is a HUGE literature on this....
Tom Roberts
Robert Clark
Jan 7, 2015, 2:20:04 PM1/7/15
to
Yes, I agree. Actual superluminal signals would be required for this to
work.
Here's an article discussing recent experiments bringing doubt on the
Copenhagen interpretation:
Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?
BY NATALIE WOLCHOVER, QUANTA MAGAZINE 06.30.14 | 6:30 AM |
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
The connection to the observations of the quasars that seem to be
"entangled" across extragalactic distances is that this would require
superluminal signaling across those distances.
Bob Clark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago
with the Titan II first stage.
In fact, contrary to popular belief SSTO's are actually easy.
Just use the most efficient engines and stages at the same time,
and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: Http://Exoscientist.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================================
"Tom Roberts" wrote in message
news:HoudnbauyqNU_zDJ...@giganews.com...
===================================================================
work.
Here's an article discussing recent experiments bringing doubt on the
Copenhagen interpretation:
Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?
BY NATALIE WOLCHOVER, QUANTA MAGAZINE 06.30.14 | 6:30 AM |
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
The connection to the observations of the quasars that seem to be
"entangled" across extragalactic distances is that this would require
superluminal signaling across those distances.
Bob Clark
------------------------------------------------------------------
Single-stage-to-orbit was already shown possible 50 years ago
with the Titan II first stage.
In fact, contrary to popular belief SSTO's are actually easy.
Just use the most efficient engines and stages at the same time,
and the result will automatically be SSTO.
Blog: Http://Exoscientist.blogspot.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Tom Roberts" wrote in message
news:HoudnbauyqNU_zDJ...@giganews.com...
Ivica Kolar
Jan 9, 2015, 8:01:05 AM1/9/15
to
Does the topic have anything in common with:
Macroscopic Observability of Fermionic Sign Changes Under Rotations,
published in the International Journal of Theoretical Physics:
Springer:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10773-014-2412-2
Forum:
Experimental Refutation of Quantum Mysticism,
or Macroscopic Observability of Fermionic Sign Changes Under Rotations, at:
http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115
"In essence, my argument is that the strong quantum correlations we observe
in Nature are natural consequences of the topological properties of the
physical space itself. They have nothing to do with quantum entanglement or
non-locality per se. Just as gravitational effects were shown by Einstein to
be due to the geometrical properties of spacetime, I have shown that quantum
correlations are due to the spinorial properties of spacetime. Once the
correct spinorial properties of spacetime are taken into account, it is
trivial to reproduce the EPR-Bohm or Bell correlation in a complete, local,
realistic, and deterministic manner. "
Author's blog:
http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/
--ivica
"Robert Clark" <rgrego...@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote in message
news:m8jl6e$ou7$1...@dont-email.me...
---
Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom.
http://www.avast.com
Macroscopic Observability of Fermionic Sign Changes Under Rotations,
published in the International Journal of Theoretical Physics:
Springer:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10773-014-2412-2
Forum:
Experimental Refutation of Quantum Mysticism,
or Macroscopic Observability of Fermionic Sign Changes Under Rotations, at:
http://www.sciphysicsforums.com/spfbb1/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=115
"In essence, my argument is that the strong quantum correlations we observe
in Nature are natural consequences of the topological properties of the
physical space itself. They have nothing to do with quantum entanglement or
non-locality per se. Just as gravitational effects were shown by Einstein to
be due to the geometrical properties of spacetime, I have shown that quantum
correlations are due to the spinorial properties of spacetime. Once the
correct spinorial properties of spacetime are taken into account, it is
trivial to reproduce the EPR-Bohm or Bell correlation in a complete, local,
realistic, and deterministic manner. "
Author's blog:
http://libertesphilosophica.info/blog/
--ivica
"Robert Clark" <rgrego...@gmSPAMBLOACKail.com> wrote in message
news:m8jl6e$ou7$1...@dont-email.me...
Ova e-pošta je provjerena na viruse Avast protuvirusnim programom.
http://www.avast.com
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