पदविभागः
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Gopi Sudarson
Jan 17, 2016, 11:44:32 AM1/17/16
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नमस्ते
दहत्यग्निरिवेन्धनम्
पदविभागम् करोतु कृपया
धन्यवादः
दहत्यग्निरिवेन्धनम्
पदविभागम् करोतु कृपया
धन्यवादः
Sudha Raghuraman
Jan 17, 2016, 11:31:10 PM1/17/16
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दहति अग्निः इव इन्धनम्
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P.K.Ramakrishnan
Feb 3, 2016, 8:10:09 AM2/3/16
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dahati agnih iva indhanam
From: Gopi Sudarson <gopi.s...@gmail.com>
To: samskrita <sams...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2016 8:55 PM
Subject: [Samskrita] पदविभागः
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ken p
Feb 3, 2016, 4:38:53 PM2/3/16
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Since letter 'a' has three sounds(bat,up,art) in English, Schwa-a in Sanskrit needs to be identified for roman transliteration readers.
Also we need to remove 'a' at the end of each word for an easy reading which may cause problem in reverse transliteration.
dàhàti àgnih ivà indhànàm
mahābhārat, daśrath
màhābhāràt, dàśràth
Taff Rivers
Feb 4, 2016, 3:29:46 AM2/4/16
to samskrita, Eddie Hadley
Ken,
Language!
Quote "Since letter 'a' has three sounds(bat,up,art) in English,..."
Aside from transliteration issues, there is the small matter of English pronunciation.
There are at least eight distinct 'a' sounds in (British) English, all commonly occurring in everyday speech.
The OTD (Oxford Talking Dictionary) lists them in its Key to the Pronunciation using the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet).
Webster's (American) English, likewise.
As for Schwa, a word not in too many peoples vocabulary (I needed to look it up) has but the one 'a' sound (as in alone, sofa or along). It is used as an unstressed syllables.
The svarita or grave mark ⟨◌̀⟩ is something else, it marks a sing-song (low-high) pitch, regardless of the sounded vowel.
Anyway, it would be kinder to your phonetically challenged readers, were you identify the transliterations schemes - and format (pada-chedda?) used.
Taff,
Aside from transliteration issues, there is the small matter of English pronunciation.
There are at least eight distinct 'a' sounds in (British) English, all commonly occurring in everyday speech.
The OTD (Oxford Talking Dictionary) lists them in its Key to the Pronunciation using the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet).
Webster's (American) English, likewise.
As for Schwa, a word not in too many peoples vocabulary (I needed to look it up) has but the one 'a' sound (as in alone, sofa or along). It is used as an unstressed syllables.
The svarita or grave mark ⟨◌̀⟩ is something else, it marks a sing-song (low-high) pitch, regardless of the sounded vowel.
Anyway, it would be kinder to your phonetically challenged readers, were you identify the transliterations schemes - and format (pada-chedda?) used.
Taff,
Shyam Subramanian
Feb 4, 2016, 3:30:06 AM2/4/16
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namaste Ken mahodaya,
The removal of 'a' at the end of each 'a-kArAnta' word is not correct as words of saMskRtam, but in Hindi and other North Indian languages.
Regards,
Shyam
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ken p
Feb 5, 2016, 10:30:08 AM2/5/16
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you may visit this site.
Taff Rivers
Feb 7, 2016, 12:43:19 PM2/7/16
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Ken,
Where I come from, it is considered courteous to advise people when a reference is in a language (German?) other than expected.
And there is a difference between illumination and obfuscation!
Thank you
And there is a difference between illumination and obfuscation!
Thank you
Hari Thapliyal
Feb 9, 2016, 2:32:43 PM2/9/16
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Hi All,
This roman transliteration is so much confusing if you want to learn Samskrut that I will try to explain with single word here.
Yog = योग्
Yoga = योग
Yogaa = योगा
In scripture it is written as योग and samskrut speaking people says योग. But English speaking person writes Yoga but speaks योगा. So he writes correct but speaks it wrong.
And here I am not discussing hruwa, pluta, dhirga
ह्रस्व प्लुत दीर्घ
Warm Regards
Hari
ken p
Feb 11, 2016, 5:43:28 AM2/11/16
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Don't we spoil our own language by not writing/teaching properly in Roman script?
If we remove 'a' at the end of word then how can we maintain both way transliteration?
At least Yog is more closer to Sanskrit pronunciation than Yoga but English speakers may pronounce youg !
no //noʊ/
Don't this ग् sound same at the end of these words (योग् /योग) in speech ?
In the middle of word a conjunct ग् sounds different. Yogya/योग्य/
Yog = योग्
Yoga = योग
Yogaa = योगा
Don't we remove 'a' in proper nouns and in English pronunciations?
Rama /Ram
Dashratha/Dashrath
Bharata/ Bharat
You may visit this site.
about
əˈbaʊt
,
,
banana
bəˈnænə
,
,
was
the
ði
,
,
open
ˈoʊpən
,
,
travel
ˈtrævəl
,
,
item
ˈaɪtəm
,
another
əˈnʌðər
abaaut banaena was dhi oupan traeval aaitam anadhar partikyular
animal
ænəməl
,
,
family
above
əˈbʌv
,
,
gallon
ˈgælən
,
,
dinosaur
ˈdaɪnəˌsɔr
,aenamal faemali abav gaelan daainasar
Taff Rivers
Feb 11, 2016, 5:44:27 AM2/11/16
to samskrita, Eddie Hadley
Hari,
"But English speaking person writes Yoga but speaks योगा. So he writes correct but speaks it wrong."
It's a big big world!
It's not so much about right or wrong pronunciation, much more about regional accents.
Is that an American drawl I hear?
When I travelled there, North to South the vowels lengthened as I went.
Likewise for British English - South Eastern regions - London area, tend to lengthen their vowels, they shorthen as you move North or West.
No two Sanskrit Guru aah the same.
One's aah's are as distinctive as fingerprints!
And among the many Indian nationals I encountered while working in Saudi Arabia, some used Victorian English, some BBC English. The well travelled Indian there, will even know that there ain't no BBC English no more.
Variety is the spice of life.
Cheers,
TaffIt's not so much about right or wrong pronunciation, much more about regional accents.
Is that an American drawl I hear?
When I travelled there, North to South the vowels lengthened as I went.
Likewise for British English - South Eastern regions - London area, tend to lengthen their vowels, they shorthen as you move North or West.
No two Sanskrit Guru aah the same.
One's aah's are as distinctive as fingerprints!
And among the many Indian nationals I encountered while working in Saudi Arabia, some used Victorian English, some BBC English. The well travelled Indian there, will even know that there ain't no BBC English no more.
Variety is the spice of life.
Cheers,
Hari Thapliyal
Feb 12, 2016, 10:26:32 PM2/12/16
to sams...@googlegroups.com, Eddie Hadley
Dear Taff,
Apart from pronunciation. I think choice of letters to write the words is not correct.
Options 1
क् = ???
क = k
का = ka
or
Option 2
क् = k
क = ka
का = kaa
कि = Ki
की = Kii
कु = Ku
कू = Kuu
के = Ke
कै = Kai
को = Ko
कौ = Kau
I think option 2 makes more sense.
In English the concept of letter is completely different than Samskrut. Pure consonant in samskrut is क् not क. Because क has Maatra of
अ.
This maatra of
अ
in English is written as "a"
Since the time we started using roman for writing Devnagari
we are following wrong convention (as per me) so we are convinced today this is right.
For example my name is हरि प्रसाद but I write as Hari Prasad.
If I write this correct in roman then it should be "Hari Prasaada"
Warm Regards
Hari
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ken p
Feb 21, 2016, 1:42:09 PM2/21/16
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Options 1
क् = ??? k̀
क = k
का = kaa
Since English does't have conjunct consonant in grammar proper nouns and words can be written in option-1
Vowels:
अ आ इ ई उ ऊ ऍ ए ऐ ऑ ओ औ अं अः
क् का कि की कु कू कॅ के कै कॉ को कौ कं कः
a ā i ī u ū æ e ai ô o au aṁ aḥ
k kā ki kī ku kū kæ ke kai kô ko kau kaṁ kaḥ
Conjunct Consonants:
क् ख् ग् घ् च् छ् ज् झ् ट् ठ् ड् ढ् ण्
त् थ् द् ध् न् प् फ् ब् भ् म् य् र् ल् व्
श् स् ष् ह् ळ् क्ष् ज्ञ्
k̀ kh̀ g̀ gh̀ c̀ ch̀ j̀ jh̀ ṭ̀ ṭh̀ ḍ̀ ḍh̀ ṇ̀
̀t̀ th̀ d̀ dh̀ ǹ p̀ ph̀ b̀ bh̀ m̀ ỳ r̀ l̀ v̀
sh̀ s̀ ṣ̀ h̀ ḽ̀ kṣ̀ jñ̀
Consonants:
क ख ग घ च छ ज झ ट ठ ड ढ ण
त थ द ध न प फ ब भ म य र ल व
श स ष ह ळ क्ष ज्ञ
k kh g gh c ch j jh ṭ ṭh ḍ ḍh ṇ
t th d dh n p ph b bh m y r l v
sh s ṣ h ḽ k jñ
Based on above scheme
hri p̀rsād
lk̀s̀mn
rām
bhārt
मुग़ल सम्राटों में अकबर और ताज महल बनवाने वाले शाहजहाँ के नाम सब से ऊपर हैं. लेकिन जैसा कि इतिहासकार हरबंस मुखिया कहते हैं, ''बाबर का व्यक्तित्व संस्कृति, साहसिक उतार-चढ़ाव और सैन्य प्रतिभा जैसी ख़ूबियों से भरा हुआ था.''
mugl samrāṭoṁ meṁ akbr aur tāj mhl bnvāne vāle śāhjhām̐ ke nām sb se ūpar haiṁ. lekin jaisā ki itihāskār hrbaṁs mukhiyā khte haiṁ, ''bābr kā v̀yktitv saṁskṛti, sāhsik utār-car̤hāv aur sainy p̀rtibhā jaisī k̲hūbiyoṁ se bhrā huā thā.''
ken p
Feb 21, 2016, 1:42:41 PM2/21/16
to samskrita, eddie...@gmail.com
Mr.Thapliyal,
Yes, You can create a transliteration scheme based on Options-1
As you know that English does't use conjunct consonant in pronunciation key as we do in Sanskrit.
It's all depends how you define a substitution list for a transliteration scheme. This scheme will be lot easier to read .
Vowels:
अ आ इ ई उ ऊ ऍ ए ऐ ऑ ओ औ अं अः
क का कि की कु कू कॅ के कै कॉ को कौ कं कः
a ā i ī u ū æ e ai ô o au aṁ aḥ
k kā ki kī ku kū kæ ke kai kô ko kau kaṁ kaḥ
Conjunct Consonants:
क् ख् ग् घ् च् छ् ज् झ् ट् ठ् ड् ढ् ण्
त् थ् द् ध् न् प् फ् ब् भ् म् य् र् ल् व्
श् स् ष् ह् ळ् क्ष् ज्ञ्
k̀ kh̀ g̀ gh̀ c̀ ch̀ j̀ jh̀ ṭ̀ ṭh̀ ḍ̀ ḍh̀ ṇ̀
̀t̀ th̀ d̀ dh̀ ǹ p̀ ph̀ b̀ bh̀ m̀ ỳ r̀ l̀ v̀
sh̀ s̀ ṣ̀ h̀ ḽ̀ kṣ̀ jñ̀
Consonants:
क ख ग घ च छ ज झ ट ठ ड ढ ण
त थ द ध न प फ ब भ म य र ल व
श स ष ह ळ क्ष ज्ञ
k kh g gh c ch j jh ṭ ṭh ḍ ḍh ṇ
t th d dh n p ph b bh m y r l v
sh s ṣ h ḽ k jñ
Based on above scheme
Hri p̀rsād sm̀rāt saṁs̀k̀ṛti p̀rtibhā lk̀s̀mn rām bhārt mhend̀r
Arvind,mhob̀t̀t
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