Handwriting

[Irene Galstian]

Is there a way of improving one's handwriting in Devanagari? I am not talking about calligraphy, but about simple things an ordinary person can work on to write more legibly and efficiently in everyday life.

[Taff Rivers]

Irene, 

 

==>

  Is there a way of improving one's handwriting in Devanagari? I am not talking about calligraphy, but about simple things an ordinary person can work on to write   more legibly and efficiently in everyday life.

==> 

 

The general idea seems to be to learn to read the script by writing it.

 

   Many methods are advocated.

 

I have experience for two of them, that I can recommend. (Their caligraphy style is a bonus that can be ignored.)

 

 

There's Charles Wikner's  professional teaching methods:

 

  http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tutorial_wikner/wikner-rm.pdf

 

Look at  part 1.A 8   Practicing the Alphabet

 

The idea is to, at first, simply draw all the strokes of the letter from memory simply to produce a recognizable shape.

(Use some sort of graph paper to help get the proportions correct. Music manuscript sheets are good as you can use three of those four lines on the staves as guides.)

Then work at the elegance by refining the proprtions latter.

 

There's flash cards to be had that support the same idea.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/108-SANSKRIT-FLASH-CARDS-CD/dp/188372502X

And for Windows software, there's Anki's Flash card teaching method that supports sanskrit.

 

    https://apps.ankiweb.net/

 

However, whichever way you go, lots of determination and persistence are essential!

Taff 

[Taff Rivers]

The given link had a letter missed out. Here's the correct one:  

 

 Charles Wikner's method:

 

  http://sanskritdocuments.org/learning_tutorial_wikner/wikner-rm.pdf

Taff 

[Manish Modi]

Dear Irene,

Jay Jinendra

The best way to improve your handwriting is to use the books that Indian kids use to practise handwriting. They have all the Devanagari letters printed in dot format. When you connect the dot, the letter is complete. It is very easy to learn. The workbooks gives you plenty of lines for practise. If you like, I shall send you a Devanagari letter writing book. It will be perfect. 

Another method that I used, when I was older, in order to improve my handwritng - was to draw the shirorekha first. Then write down the letter. It really works well for me. 

Yours,

Manish

[Manish Modi]

Dear Irene,

Jay Jinendra

When I was learning the Naskh script, I used to practise writing it all the time. It is terribly repetitive and boring to write down the alphabet all the time. So I used to write the lyrics of Hindi film songs in Naskh (even though I had to resort to Nastaliq because Naskh simply does not have enough alphabets to represent all the HIndi words adequately.) It is a great way to learn. 

M 

[Irene Galstian]

Dear Manish,

Yes, let's use that comparison.

Naskh/Nastaliq is connected, and we take the tip of the pen off the paper rarely, say to place the dots, or when we reach a letter that doesn't connect, and there the tip travels very little distance. 

But Devanagari isn't connected. Yes, the letters 'hang' off the rekha, but notice how many times the tip of the pen leaves and rejoins the paper, and how far it has to travel. This slows down writing quite a bit, at least in my experience. Unless, of course, there exists some secret of efficient writing in Devanagari script. What do you think?

Kind regards,

Irene

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[ken p]

You may check out these links.

Click a letter to learn more

http://enjoylearningsanskrit.com/sanskrit-alphabet-tutor

http://enjoylearningsanskrit.com/sanskrit-tools-and-applications

The Bar in Devanāgarī etc
http://www.omniglot.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=625

devanAgarI, devanāgarī  , देवनागरी ,દેવનાગરી ,ದೇವನಾಗರೀ, ദേവനാഗരീ , தே³வனாக³ரீ , దేవనాగరీ, دیوَناگَرِی , ଦେବନାଗରୀ , devanaagarii  

[Taff Rivers]

Manish,

   I'm also interested in a formal cursive (flowing) system of writing the Devanagari script - as opposed to the casual cursive (joins and lifts).

And so I tried to find Naskh and Nastaliq in the Sanskrit lexicon. But my efforts were in vain.

As it happens, having spent time working in the Middle East (Yemen and Saudi Arabia) I understand that Naskh is Arabic Calligraphy.

And furthermore I learn that Nastaliq is Persian Calligraphy.

 

I assume that you weren't really converting the lyrics of Hindi love songs into Arabic, but were actually using a formal cursive sytem for Devanagari?

The nearest of such, that hit with Google is Gujarati, which, while it does have some cursive letters, the letters themselves remain distinctly unjoined. 

    http://www.1001fonts.com/ananda-akchyar-font.html#character-map

 

   Regards,

Taff Rivers

[Manish Modi]

Dear Irene,
Jay Jinendra

When I mentioned Naskh and Nastaliq, I was merely trying to point out that we need to practise writing each new script diligently. You keep thinking of words and write them down. I found it easy to simply write down the lyrics of Hindi film songs. This way, I could practise my writing in a new script and not get bored. 

Devanagari is not connected. But if you write it often enough, you will find that it is very quick and efficient. 

When I compare Devanagari with diacritics, Devanagari is a million times easier! 

There is no secret or more efficient way. Just practise it enough. 

The beauty of Devanagari is the prevalence of a large no. of letters. And the fact that it is phonetic. Hence, it is very easy to write and very quick too. For intance, if I were to write my name in English, I would have to write six letters. In Hindi, it is just three letters and a matra. Hence, it is written more quickly in Hindi. 

Those of us who write regularly in Devanagari, use a flowing hand. In my case, my shiro-rekhas are quite prominent and I write with reasonable speed and good accuracy. 

So just continue to practise. Trust me, it is easy. 

Manish

[Manish Modi]

Hi Taff,

Naskh and Nastaliq have nothing to do with Sanskrit. 

Flowing Devanagari is not possible without joins and lifts. Despite that, it is a lot quicker to write in Devanagari than to write in roman. 

Yes, I was writing Hindi film songs in Naskh and Nastaliq. The purpose was to familiarise myself with a new script. Learning a new script/language requires a lot of practise. So I used to practise writing it. How often can you write the entire alphabet? You are bound to get bored. So I used to write sentences and Hindi songs in Naskh and Nastaliq. 

I read and speak Gujarati reasonably well, But I cannot write in Gujarati. As you say, it is both joined and unjoined. 

I am now planning to learn Gurumukhi. This is because although I read Urdu, Punjabi in India is now written in Gurumukhi and not Shahmukhi. I speak Punjabi but am hampered by the fact that I do not read it at all. 

Best wishes,

Manish

[Irene Galstian]

Looks like Manish's 'write more' advice is the way forward for me after all. 

On 17 Feb 2017, at 09:14, Taff Rivers <eddie...@gmail.com> wrote:

Irene & Manish,

  A little research goes a long way, folks.

I've just dug this up from wikipedia which may be worth further study:

The Modi alphabet. 

The Modi alphabet (U+11600–U+1165F) was added to the Unicode Standard in June 2014 with the release of version 7.0.

The Modi script derives from the Nāgari family of scripts and is a modification of the Balbodh style of the Devanagari script intended for continuous writing.

The Modi script has several characteristics facilitate writing so that moving from one character to the next miminises lifting the pen from the paper for dipping in ink.

 

Some characters are “broken” versions of their Devanagari counterparts. Many characters are more “circular” in shape.

 

Thus, Modi was a sort of “cursive” style of writing Marathi.

 

The Modi script does not have long ‘ī’ (ई) and long ‘ū’ (ऊ) of Devanagari.   But, write it anyway! 

 

The cursive nature of the script also allowed scribes to easily make multiple copies of a document if required.

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modi_alphabet

 

BTW. Naskh and Nastaliq are specific to the Arabic alphabet and Persian alphabets respectively.

  Regards,

    Taff

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 14:44:44 UTC, Irene Galstian wrote:

Is there a way of improving one's handwriting in Devanagari? I am not talking about calligraphy, but about simple things an ordinary person can work on to write more legibly and efficiently in everyday life.

[Taff Rivers]

Irene & Manish,

  A little research goes a long way, folks.

I've just dug this up from wikipedia which may be worth further study:

The Modi alphabet. 

The Modi alphabet (U+11600–U+1165F) was added to the Unicode Standard in June 2014 with the release of version 7.0.

The Modi script derives from the Nāgari family of scripts and is a modification of the Balbodh style of the Devanagari script intended for continuous writing.

The Modi script has several characteristics facilitate writing so that moving from one character to the next miminises lifting the pen from the paper for dipping in ink.

 

Some characters are “broken” versions of their Devanagari counterparts. Many characters are more “circular” in shape.

 

Thus, Modi was a sort of “cursive” style of writing Marathi.

 

The Modi script does not have long ‘ī’ (ई) and long ‘ū’ (ऊ) of Devanagari.   But, write it anyway! 

 

The cursive nature of the script also allowed scribes to easily make multiple copies of a document if required.

             https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modi_alphabet

 

BTW. Naskh and Nastaliq are specific to the Arabic alphabet and Persian alphabets respectively.

  Regards,

    Taff

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 14:44:44 UTC, Irene Galstian wrote:

Is there a way of improving one's handwriting in Devanagari? I am not talking about calligraphy, but about simple things an ordinary person can work on to write more legibly and efficiently in everyday life.

On Sunday, 12 February 2017 14:44:44 UTC, Irene Galstian wrote:

[Hindi Granth Karyalay]

Taff, 

The Mudi lipi, aka the Modi lipi, was a derivation of the Nagari. So was the 'Kaithi lipi' thus called because it was used by the Kayasthas.

Marathi was written in the Mudi lipi before Lokamanya  Tilak suggested that it be written in Devanagari. What a wonderful suggestion it was! It helped Marathi literature flourish and made Marathi accessible to those who know Devanagari but not Mudi. 

Mahatma Gandhi had made a similar suggestion for Gujarati. Gandhi also published a few Gujarati books in the Devanagari lipi, including the excellent Jodani Kosh. But it was not to be! His suggestion was not followed. Else, Gujarati too would have been written in Devanagari, thus making it accessible to more people. 

As far as Naskh and Nastaliq are concerned, they are scripts connected with Arabic and Persian respectively. But they can be used to write the words of another language. So you can very well write Hindi film songs in Naskh and Nastaliq. 

In fact, in the early decades of Hindi cinema, film songs and dialogues used to be written in Nastaliq and not in Devanagari. Since most of the film starts, directors and writers and lyricists were from Punjab or were Islamic people, they were more familiar with Nastaliq than with Devanagari. Even now, older film stars like Dilip Kumar cannot read Devanagari at all. He reads all his dialogues in Nastaliq. 

I had a very cute experience of this when I published my first publication - DILON KE RISHTEY. My author, Padmashri Prem Dhavan, was from Punjab and did not know Devanagari at all. Back then, I knew Naskh but struggled with Nastaliq. Since I was going to print the book in Devanagari, I asked for the ms. in Devanagari.

It is difficult to find typists who can read Nastaliq and type in Hindi. So we had poor Mr Dhavan dictating the entire ms. to me, and I wrote it down in Devanagari! Then we got a typist to type it up properly, and so on. 

So please do not restrict language to alphabet. Or vice versa. 

M

[Taff Rivers]

Manish,

 "it is a lot quicker to write in Devanagari than to write in roman."

Really!

The language of interest being saṃskṛta:

For note taking, using the internationally recommended IAST (Roman transliteration) is as easy as abc.

Compare and contrast the number of pen lifts to handwrite devanāgarī as against handwriting देवनागरी

    devanāgarī by hand, on paper. (or on screen if you have a touch sensitive device.):

 

lift pen and,

1.   write 1st macron

2.   lift pen,

3.   write 2nd macron.

    Voila! three stokes and we have 'devanāgarī'.

   Repeat for देवनागरी  ...

Regards,

   Taff

[Hindi Granth Karyalay]

ॐ ह्रीं श्रीपार्श्वनाथाय नमः

Auṃ Hrīṃ ŚrīPārśvanāthāya Namaḥ

Jay Jinendra

Taff, 

Repeat the same exercise using a pen on paper. 

Write the word Sanskrit in Devanagari. 

Now write it in Rroman. Time yourself. 

See how quickly and easily you will write in Devanagari. Being phonetic, it is super easy and intuitive. 

Best regards,

Manish Yashodhar Modi

हिन्दी ग्रन्थ कार्यालय

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HINDI GRANTH KARYALAY

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[श्रीमल्ललितालालितः]

On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Taff Rivers <eddie...@gmail.com> wrote:

"it is a lot quicker to write in Devanagari than to write in roman."

​Just map devanAgarI letters to the place where you keep IAST thing, and use same combination to get letters. Now, devanAgarI is no slower.

And, check that for putting dots above and below, drawing line above and creating a slant is also difficult to write.

Moreover, those who have practised devanAgarI, will always find it to read compared to IAST. Same is true for those who practised IAST, they find devanAgarI difficult.

So, I think that Manish's words are correct for devanAgarI-knowing people, and Taff's are for others.

BTW, I learnt to use I-trans first on computer, then I learnt devanAgarI. So, both devanAgarI and IAST were difficult for me at a stage. Now, I mapped devanAgarI to I-trans place and devanAgarI is easy for me.

​

श्रीमल्ललितालालितः
www.lalitaalaalitah.com

[Taff Rivers]

Moreover, those who have practised devanAgarI, will always find it to read compared to IAST. 

Same is true for those who practised IAST, they find devanAgarI difficult.

Thank you for your common sense.

    Though the issue is for fast note taking by hand, for which I have now worked out a simple solution for myself.

For IAST though, for most English speakers,who would be familiar with schoolboy French words with their accents, not to mention Gerrman ones,

The idea of the diacrtitic system of IAST is trully almost second nature, there is after all, an easy logic to it that is graspable in minutes. 

However, Typing these various schemes, including IAST, for public consumption is another matter. 

I resort to the venerable iTranslator software for that  (Actually, I helped to beta test the software for functionality before it came out).

  Best regards,

Taff