literal translation of मूढमते

[RamanaMurthy Bathala]

Dear Sir,

 

भज गोविन्दं भज गोविन्दं

गोविन्दं भज मूढमते ।

सम्प्राप्ते सन्निहिते काले

नहि नहि रक्षति डुकृङ्करणे ॥ १॥

 

How to translate मूढमते ?

I have come across two translations.

 

मूढमते = O, foolish mind !; (personification of mind)

मूढमते = O fool !; (No personification, direct address to a person)

 

Which one is literally correct?

 

Regards

Ramana murthy

[Hnbhat B.R.]

dull witted

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[KN.Ramesh]

Is it not डुकृञ् करणे...?

[Pramod Kulkarni]

You are very correct. The full form of our popular कृ verb of 8th gana. करोति कुरुते

The meaning of a verb is always told in सप्तमी विभक्ति

Hence करणे to do. भू सत्तायाम् 

चुबि वक्त्रसंयोगे are other examples from धातुपाठ

डु leads to the word कृत्रिम 

ञ् tells us that verb is उभयपदी

On 13-Oct-2017 8:48 PM, "KN.Ramesh" <knra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it not डुकृञ् करणे...?

--

[Sadagopan V]

Are we talking about application of Ashtadhyayi 8.2.30. " choH kuH" here in the shloka ? If it is an anukaranam of Dhatu Patha, then form written by Shri Ramesh should be right, I think  

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 2:19 PM, KN.Ramesh <knra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it not डुकृञ् करणे...?

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-- Sadagopan V

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Praveen R Bhat sheds new light on डुकृञ् करणे at

http://anythingwise.blogspot.in/2016/04/blog-post.html

Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

BoS, MIT School of Vedic Sciences, Pune, Maharashtra

BoS, Chinmaya Vishwavidyapeeth, Veliyanad, Kerala

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[KN.Ramesh]

डुकृञ्करणे

ॐ श्रीगुरुभ्यो नमः ।

भजगोविन्दे श्लोके, भगवत्पादाचार्य अवदत् "नहि नहि रक्षति डुकृञ्करणे” इति । बहवः जना अस्य पादस्य अर्थं वदन्ति यत्-- "व्याकरणेन मोक्षप्राप्तिर्न भवति", "व्याकरणस्य मोक्षहेतौ, मोक्षविषये, किमपि उपयोगो नास्ति" इति च । ते "व्याकरणं क्या करणम्?” इति चेष्टामपि कुर्वन्ति यतः संस्कृतभाषां न जानन्ति। वस्तुतोऽस्य वाक्यस्य एषोऽर्थोऽयोग्यः। कथं तत्? व्याकरणं वेदस्य मुखं‌ प्रोक्तम्। मुखं विना कथं श्रुतिर्वक्तुं शक्नोति? कथं च वयं श्रोतारः श्रोतुं‌ शक्नुमः? ज्ञानाय व्याकरणमवश्यकमेव।

 डुकृञ्करणे-शब्दः महर्षिपाणिनिकृतः पारिभाषिकश्चास्ति । किन्तु कोSपि कथं न चिन्तयति "केन कारणेन भगवत्पादः‌ द्विसहस्रधातुनां मध्ये अस्य डुकृञ्-धातोरेव प्रयोगं कृतवान्"? अत्र डुकृञ्, अथवा कृ- धातुः, करणे अर्थे अस्ति । अर्थात् कृधातोरर्थः‌ "कर्मणः करणम्" इत्यस्ति । अतो भगवत्पादः‌ "ज्ञानेन एव मोक्षो भवति" इति लक्षयित्वा, कृधोतोः प्रयोगं कृतवान् । ततः श्लोके यो वाक्यः‌ तस्य एषोऽर्थो भवति-- "कर्मणा मोक्षप्राप्तिर्न सम्भवति। नापि कर्मणा समुच्चयेन"। अर्थात् "‌नहि नहि रक्षति डुकृञ्करणे" अस्य वाक्यस्य अर्थः‌ "नहि नहि रक्षति कर्माणि" इत्येव योग्यः।

ओं तत् सत् । --गणान्तरात्।

[Subrahmanian R]

Sirs,

A few years ago, I had raised this doubt and there was quite some discussion. I remember, ultimately only of the scholar-member emphatically pointed out that in the Sankara vijaya it is mentioned that an old man at Varanasi was trying to learn vyakarana and Adi Sankara advised him to avoid waste of time, and hence du krinj karane refers only to vyakarana.

Some portions of the discussion which I have are:

Respected Scholars,

 

I was going through the discussions on the above subject in the archive and if permitted to say the following:

With due respect to the scholars and the scholastic explanations, I beg to differ.

In my limited reading of Sankaras works I have not come across Sankara using such metaphors. If he wanted to say 'don't waste your time and energy on studying the rules of grammar', he would have said it more plainly. I do not think Sankara has expressed such an idea in any other place.

A translation of the phrase or clause 'डु कृञ् करणे’ as 'rules of grammar' to my mind is far-fetched. Sanskrit grammar includes ashtadhyayi, dhatu paTam, gaNa paTham, uNAdi etc. One single 'entry' from one of these works can hardly be translated as 'rules of grammar'.

Bhagavatpada Adi Sankara in his Vishnu Sahasranaama Bhashya in perhaps over hundred places quotes Panini's rules for explaining the various names. The same Sankara would not have intended to say: 'Don't waste time in understanding the rules of grammar; instead chant the name of the Lord'.

He has extolled the importance of 'ज्ञानम्’ over 'कर्म’ in his works. Bhakti, he has held as a stepping stone for jnanam.

So, to my mind, Sankara must have meant, do not waste time in डु कृञ् i.e. in 'करणे' - 'work or action'. It does not lead to mukti. Instead chant the name of Hari/ Govinda, which will lead you to jnanam and thereby to mukti.

Pranams

 

Everybody is free to translate as one likes. No comments.

H.N. Bhatt

 

It would be interesting to know where Sankaracharya has quoted Panini in his

commentary on Vishnusahasranama. I would request Sri Subrahmanian to

post the extracts in this group for the benefit of some members.

P.K. Ramakrishnan

 

Sri Ramakrishnan,

 

I have not studied Panini Ashtadhyayi; but I think the following are references from Panini's Ashtadhyayi. Even if it is not from Panini's sutra, it refers to some rules of grammar:

 

वेवेष्टि

[1] व्याप्नोतीति विष्णु: । विषेर्व्याप्त्यभिधायिनो नुक् प्रत्ययान्तस्य रूपम्।

साक्षादव्यवधानेन स्वरूप बोधेन ईक्षते पश्यति सर्वमिति साक्षी ।

’साक्षाद्द्रष्टरि संज्ञायाम्’ इति पाणिनिवचनादिनिप्रत्यय: ।

पुरुषोत्तम

: । अत्र ’न निर्धारणे’ इति षष्ठीसमासप्रतिषेधो न भवति जात्याद्यनपेक्षया समर्थत्वात् ।

प्रलयकाले अस्मिन् सर्वे निधीयते इति निधि:। ’कर्मण्यधिकरणे च’ इति कि प्रत्यय:।

सर्व फल दातृत्वं ’फलमत उपपत्ते:’ इत्यत्र उपपादितम्।

नादो वा भुवि लक्षणो यस्य स: महास्वन:। सन्महत् इत्यादिना समासे कृते "आन्महत: समानाधिकरणजातीययो:" इत्यादिना आत्वम्’।

पवित्रम्

। ’पुव: संज्ञायाम्’ ’कर्तरि चर्षिदेवतयो:’ इति पाणिनि स्मरणात् इत्र प्रत्यय:।ज्येष्ठ: ’ज्य च’ इत्यधिकारे ’वृद्धस्य च’ ओतो [6] वृद्धशब्दस्य ज्यादेशविधानात्। प्रशस्यतम: [7] श्रेष्ट:; ’प्रशस्य श्र:’ इति आदेश विदानत्। ’प्राणो वाव ज्येष्ठश्च श्रेष्ठश्च’ इति श्रुते: मुख्यप्राणो वा ’श्रेष्ठश्च इत्यधिकरणसिद्धत्वात्।

Pranam

R Subrahmanian

 

"So, to my mind, Sankara must have meant, do not waste time in डु कृञ् i.e. in 'करणे' - 'work or action'. It does not lead to mukti. Instead chant the name of Hari/ Govinda, which will lead you to jnanam and thereby to mukti."

 

A similar suggestion  for  डु कृञ्करणे that Karma does not lead to mukti,is suggested by Swami Paramarthananda in his discourses on Bhaja Govindam, along with the typical Explanation for डु कृञ् करणे.

 

 

Regards,

Ramanatha Jambunathan

 

 

If Adi shankara the person who has written commentary on Prastan Trai is the same person who has commented on Vishnusahasranma is an unsettled fact the question is open to one's view point.

 

Regards

Ajit Gargeshwari

 

But what about he who himself commented on all the प्रस्थानत्रयी and independently written many works supplementary to his advaita theory, when preaching others say:

 

 

शब्दजालं महारण्यं चित्तभ्रमणकारणम् ।

अतः प्रयत्नाज्ज्ञातव्यं तत्त्वज्ञात्तत्त्वमात्मनः ॥ - विवेकचूडामणि. 

 

 

It could be meant that he wants nothing to be learnt from reading the texts written by him in volumes and volumes. How can this be justified?

 

 

This शब्दजाल would certainly include his own writings, if one contents. This is just for the same argument if Shankara quoted Panini rules, he would not have negated it for others. By the same token, how he can say in his विवेकचूडामणि, शब्दजाल is only confusing your mind and seek the truth about by all means about the Self. It simply states nothing can be achieved to realize the self, only by reading books. In the same way, when the above context is translated similarly, he doesn't say व्याकरण is useless at all, but it is not in anyway helpful in realization of the Self or to evade the cycle of birth and death. Only clinging to the literal meanings, here it is too far fetched. For any one with the धातुपाठ the phrase itself suggests the Grammar. And there is nothing to interpret as you have suggested, syntactically coherent with your thinking.

 

As I said, everybody is free to interpret in his own way. Without Grammar, one cannot write anything, like a Bhashya is evident and need not any periphrastic interpretation.

 

Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,

Research Scholar,

 

It is not clear if Adi Sankara himself wrote Bhaja Govinda.  Some scholars ascribe works to Sankara which has title BhagavatpAda.The word bhaj used to mean praise or sing together is new usage , see MW for older meaning - to divide.Vimala Sarma

 

The verb  भज - सेवायाम् has got a lot of interpretations in English possible for the meaning सेवा, to serve, consume, etc. Here the meaning is to serve Govinda. So it is not new altogether to Sanskrit language. हरिं गुरुं भजस्व is the standard usage. It is to be interpreted with different words, so as to agree with the object of the verb भज् which is transitive verb. भजन means सेवा in general.

 

The other verb भजो भङ्गे has the meaning to  divide and from which भङ्गः, भङ्गिः, भागः etc. are derived. Two are different roots.

H.N. Bhatt

 

Bhat mahodaya, I know the meaning of bhaj  in  bhaja govinda but this usage is new (ie middle ages) according to western scholars.  See also bhakti in MW.ThanksVimala

 

Many thanks for your detailed reply giving reference to Panini in Sankaras commentary on Vishnushasranama.

 

This does not take away the essence of referring to du krinj karane.

 

All Sankara advises people is not to spend their whole life studying grammar.

 

That is what he says "sampraapte sannihaite marane na hi na hi rakshati du krinj karane".

 

If you are not convinced,  I wish to stop here.

P.K. Ramakrishnan

 

 

--

[Venkata Sriram]

One of my known persons whom I respect most (unfortunately passed away) is Shri.S.N.Sastri Ji who studied vedAnta under Mahamahopadhyaya R.Krishnamurthy Sastry and Shri.Goda Venkateshwara Sastry .  One may go thru the explanation for this here in the link:

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/archives/advaita-l/2006-August/017245.html

.....

The reference to 'DukRnj karaNe' in Sri Sankara's Bhajagovindam  in this
list recently prompted me to make this submission. As has already been
pointed out by one of the members, this expression appears in pANini's
dhAtupATha with reference to the verbal root kR meaning 'to do'. This can be
taken as a reference to the subject of grammar as a whole. The meaning of
the particular line in Bhajagovindam would then be, "Grammar will not save
you when your end comes". Does this mean that Sankara considers the study of
grammar to be useless? That cannot be, because the knowledge of grammar is
essential for understanding the meaning of the SAstras. It means only that
the study of grammar will not save one from samsAra. But why grammar alone?
What about other subjects? Can they save a person from samsAra? Here
'grammar' is 'upalakshaNa' (an indicative word) for all the SAstras,
including even the vedas. The Mundakopanishad says that there are two kinds
of knowledge—the higher (parA vidyA) and the lower (aparA vidyA). The lower
knowledge includes the four Vedas, the science of pronunciation, the code of
rituals, grammar, etymology, metre, and astrology (including astronomy). The
higher knowledge is that by which the Immutable (Brahman) is realized. The
lower knowledge is necessary for all worldly purposes, but it is only the
higher knowledge that will deliver one from the continuous chain of births
and deaths. Sankara says in vivekachUDAmaNi, sloka 61, "The mere study of
all the SAstras is fruitless if the supreme Reality is not known; if the
supreme Reality is known then too the study of the SAstras is of no use
(they are no longer necessary)". This profound truth is what is implied by
the statement  "grammar will not save you". Of course there is also an
exhortation to worship Govinda because devotion is an essential means to
liberation.

    The word 'mUDhamate' in the first sloka is generally translated as
'fool'. The meaning of this word is not just 'a person deficient in
intelligence'. The word 'mUDha' is derived from the verb 'muh' which means
'to be deluded'. So the word 'mUDhamate' means 'one who is deluded'. Every
one in this world, including the most brilliant scientists, is deluded by
mAyA, until one realizes the Self. So 'mUDhamate' refers to 'all persons who
have not realized the Self'.

 In a later sloka the last line is 'bhAryA bibhyati tasmin kAye'. This is
generally translated as 'even his wife is afraid of his (dead) body'. But
the snag here is that the verb 'bibhyati'  is in the plural (though it looks
like singular because it ends in 'ti' and not 'nti'. 'bibhyati' is the third
person plural of the root 'bhI'. So the word ' bhAryA' is in the plural
(bhAryAH) with the visarga at the end getting dropped because it is followed
by the letter 'bi'. The meaning of the word 'bhAryAH' here is therefore not
'wives' but all those who were supported by him, i.e. all his dependents.


S.N.Sastri

..................

regs,

sriram

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Sri Ramesh-ji,

Did you want to copy paste Sri Praveen Bhat's blog to which I provided the link, for the convenience of the list? 

An intro line mentioning that would have served that purpose better. 

2017-10-16 13:12 GMT+05:30 KN.Ramesh <knra...@gmail.com>:

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[KN.Ramesh]

Sri.Nagaraj Paturi ji,

I pasted it from my whatsapp & later I found the link which you have given is one and the same...