My article on etymology of Kashmir

[Nityanand Misra]

Dear list

Some of you may be interested in my article on etymology of the word Kashmir.

https://swarajyamag.com/culture/the-etymology-of-kashmir-setting-the-record-straight

Unfortunately the diacritics did not pass the copy-editing process. The attached word article is a pre-publication draft with diacritics. The attachment is for your reference only, and for any citations, please cite the article in Swarajya.

Your feedback and comments are welcome, as always. 

Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Nityanand

--

Nityānanda Miśra

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

Very nice article. Well-argued. I feel this article should put to rest some of the wilder speculations on the origin of the toponym e.g., that of Wilson, Babur etc.

Still, ' a place to which people go' may not present itself as an arresting final argument to some of us. But we do have other janapada's like anga, vanga, kalinga, mithila etc whose names appear to me to be without etymology.

Regards,

Srini

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[G S S Murthy]

Nice article, Nityanandji.

As far as I can recall Valmiki makes no mention of  Kashmir, but he speaks of UttaraKuru. From his description of Uttarakuru, it appears to be a beautiful valley. Could it be another name of Kashmir or Is UttaraKuru's location clearly identified geographically?

Regards,

Murthy

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[Dmitri Semenov]

Interesting.

Was a derivation from dhatu kaz   with two suffixes  -mi and -ra ever proposed?

[Gérard Huet]

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 3:23:13 PM UTC+2, Nityanand Misra wrote:

https://swarajyamag.com/culture/the-etymology-of-kashmir-setting-the-record-straight

A new edition of the उणादिकोशः was published in 2004 by Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, Tirupati. It lists कश्मीरः as obtained by rule [4,32] कशोर्मुट् च.

However, the word is interpreted differently there, as कष्टे गच्छति इति कश्मीरः i.e. "Kashmir is that which experiences pain". 

Thus, even if one adheres to the व्युत्पन्न point of view, your conclusion about uṇādisūtra(s) giving an authoritative unambiguous etymology is to be taken with a grain of salt, since pandits differ in their interpretation...

Gérard Huet

[govind prasad Pant]

interesting

[Nityanand Misra]

Dear Prof. Huet

The reading कशोर्मुट् च is most likely a misprint. I have consulted more than ten editions of Unadi Sutras and all of them have the reading कशेर्मुट् च and not कशोर्मुट् च. The root is कश् which is mentioned as कशि in sutra-s. This is similar to गम् being mentioned as गमि and काश् being mentioned as काशि in Ashtadhyayi.

In addition, कष्टे is not the locative singular सुबन्त form of कष्ट. It is rather the तिङन्त singular first person लट् लकार form of कश्. This is attested in the Madhaviya Dhaturvritti as can be seen here https://archive.org/stream/MadhaviyaDhatuVritti1964Sayanacarya/Madhaviya%20Dhatu%20Vritti%201964%20-%20Sayanacarya#page/n385/mode/1up. 

And so, कष्टे गच्छति does not translate to "experiences pain" as you interpret. Rather the verbal form कष्टे is explained as गच्छति. This makes sense because the root is कश् गतिशासनयोः. It is usual for commentaries to explain a verbal form with another one.

The same explanation is offered by Dayananda Sarasvati which I have covered in my article and called theoretically correct. However, when taken as the name of a place, the suffix in कर्तृ does not make sense and therefore the suffix is to be taken in अधिकरण.

Thanks, Nityananda

[Gérard Huet]

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 2:36:27 AM UTC+2, Nityanand Misra wrote:

On Wednesday, 5 April 2017 22:43:25 UTC+8, Gérard Huet wrote:

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 3:23:13 PM UTC+2, Nityanand Misra wrote:

https://swarajyamag.com/culture/the-etymology-of-kashmir-setting-the-record-straight

A new edition of the उणादिकोशः was published in 2004 by Rashtriya Sanskrit Vidyapeetha, Tirupati. It lists कश्मीरः as obtained by rule [4,32] कशोर्मुट् च.

However, the word is interpreted differently there, as कष्टे गच्छति इति कश्मीरः i.e. "Kashmir is that which experiences pain". 

Thus, even if one adheres to the व्युत्पन्न point of view, your conclusion about uṇādisūtra(s) giving an authoritative unambiguous etymology is to be taken with a grain of salt, since pandits differ in their interpretation...

Dear Prof. Huet

The reading कशोर्मुट् च is most likely a misprint.

Yes, you are right, the misprint is mine, the sutra is कशेर्मुट् च. Sorry for adding confusion. 

 

I have consulted more than ten editions of Unadi Sutras and all of them have the reading कशेर्मुट् च and not कशोर्मुट् च. The root is कश् which is mentioned as कशि in sutra-s. This is similar to गम् being mentioned as गमि and काश् being mentioned as काशि in Ashtadhyayi.

In addition, कष्टे is not the locative singular सुबन्त form of कष्ट. It is rather the तिङन्त singular first person लट् लकार form of कश्. This is attested in the Madhaviya Dhaturvritti as can be seen here https://archive.org/stream/MadhaviyaDhatuVritti1964Sayanacarya/Madhaviya%20Dhatu%20Vritti%201964%20-%20Sayanacarya#page/n385/mode/1up. 

And so, कष्टे गच्छति does not translate to "experiences pain" as you interpret.

This is not my interpretation, I am just reporting what the Tirupati edition says. I am as puzzled by the "experiences pain" interpretation as "the place where people go". 

Best

Gérard Huet

 

[Nityanand Misra]

On Thursday, 6 April 2017 17:35:08 UTC+5:30, Gérard Huet wrote:

In addition, कष्टे is not the locative singular सुबन्त form of कष्ट. It is rather the तिङन्त singular first person लट् लकार form of कश्. This is attested in the Madhaviya Dhaturvritti as can be seen here https://archive.org/stream/MadhaviyaDhatuVritti1964Sayanacarya/Madhaviya%20Dhatu%20Vritti%201964%20-%20Sayanacarya#page/n385/mode/1up. 

And so, कष्टे गच्छति does not translate to "experiences pain" as you interpret.

This is not my interpretation, I am just reporting what the Tirupati edition says. I am as puzzled by the "experiences pain" interpretation as "the place where people go". 

Best

Gérard Huet

“Place where people go” is my translation of “गच्छन्त्यत्र” by Bhattathiri. कक्षे (कश् + लट् + प्र.पु. + ब.व.) = गच्छन्ति [जनाः] अत्र that is the sense. The usage by Bhattathiri is similar to सत्रम् which is by US ४.१७७ गुधृवीपचिवचियमिसदिक्षदिभ्यस्त्र: where Bhattathiri says सीदन्त्युपविशन्त्यत्र जनाः सत्रम् [“satra is that in which people sit”].

“Experiences pain” is a mistranslation of “कष्टे गच्छति”. Consider Dayandanda Sarasvati on the Sutra who makes it clear that कष्टे is a verbal form: कष्टे गच्छति शास्ति वा असौ कश्मीरः देशभेदो वा. It is not that puzzling, the translator seems to have taken कष्टे in some commentary as a subanta (“in pain”), which it is not given the context, and combined it with गच्छति “goes” to get “experiences pain”. 

Hope this helps. 

 

[Taff Rivers]

 Nityanand Misra,

    Wie geht es Ihnen.

I have run an objective eye over 'The etymology of the word Kashmir' of yours.
And find the question surely is, who, and with  whose lexicon, actually named the region (as opp. to the valley)?

Specifically,  what is the esteemed Author's grounds for asserting the 'Kashmir'  of today, is of today's (i.e. Classical) Sanskrit lexicon?

Only then would the Sanskrit etymological argument be worthy of consideration, but so far it remains just speculation?

Viz.
The Sanskrit word for 'Kashmir' is kashmira (kasmira/कश्मीर) or kashmiri as a feminine adj.,
which is described in the MBh simply as 'the country Kaśmīra'.
at time when it was still very much just a valley.

To explain my argument:

As you say, prior to 1820, there's the Persian valley 'Kashmir' - and its meaning as from the Persian lexicons.

But then we have the odd territorial punch-ups over the region 'Kashmir' - which includes the aforementioned  valley.

The two Amritsar treaties:
    Treaty of Amritsar, 1809, an agreement between the British East India Company and Ranjit Singh, founder of the Sikh empire
    Treaty of Amritsar, 1846, a treaty formalizing the arrangements in the Treaty of Lahore between the British East India Company and Maharaja Gulab Singh Dogra after the First Anglo-Sikh War
This brings in more lexicons, those of:

    Ranjit Singh, founder of the Sikh empire
    Maharaja Gulab Singh Dogra
    British East India Company

 Come 1947, and the parceling out of the region 'Kashmir', and yet more interested parties:
    India,
    Pakistan,
    and China
along with  yet three more lexicons.

So the big question surely is, who, and using whose lexicon, actually named the region?
Specifically,  what is the esteemed Author's grounds for asserting the 'Kashmir'  of today, is of today's (i.e. Classical) Sanskrit lexicon?

<==

    Dear list
    Some of you may be interested in my article on etymology of the word Kashmir.
    https://swarajyamag.com/culture/the-etymology-of-kashmir-setting-the-record-straight

    Your feedback and comments are welcome, as always.

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Nityanand
   --
    Nityānanda Miśra

<==

[Nityanand Misra]

On Friday, 7 April 2017 06:12:16 UTC+8, Taff Rivers wrote:

So the big question surely is, who, and using whose lexicon, actually named the region?
Specifically,  what is the esteemed Author's grounds for asserting the 'Kashmir'  of today, is of today's (i.e. Classical) Sanskrit lexicon?

As the derived word काश्मीर, literally “belonging to Kashmir”, refers to saffron and grapes in Sanskrit, there is no doubt that the कश्मीर in Sanskrit texts refers to the Kashmir of today. The Kashmir of today has been famous for saffron for a long time.

Whether the boundaries of the कश्मीर country reffered to in Mahabharata were limited to the valley or not is a different question to which I do not know the answer.  

[Taff Rivers]

Nityanand Misra,

  To repeat my inquiry:  Who, named the region?

Because only when we have determined exactly who the people were - the people who so named the region - would we be able look to their vocabulary and ascertain the factual information.


To that end I have now tracked down the following:

"The oldest Hindu texts such as the Vedas, Upanishads and Mahabharata were composed in the Punjab or nearby region and therefore indirectly influenced the entire South Asian region through time." *


So looking up 'kash' and 'mir' in the Punjabi of that time,
    a first, quick look around: determines that 'mir' is a persons proper name, that of a real person ,as opp. to the somewhat metaphoric one.

"Shah Mir became the first Muslim ruler of Kashmir, inaugurating the Salatin-i-Kashmir or Swati dynasty.[5]"

That leaves 'Kash''  ...


   best regards,

Taff,

   I see neither saffron nor grapes, not even any of today's 'mountain goats' ...(-:)

     * http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Punjabi

<==

As the derived word काश्मीर, literally “belonging to Kashmir”, refers to saffron and grapes in Sanskrit, there is no doubt that the कश्मीर in Sanskrit texts refers to the Kashmir of today. The Kashmir of today has been famous for saffron for a long time.

<==

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Who named it? 

Someone or some people who were born before the earliest documented use of the word ('Kashmeera > Kaashmeera' ) in the ancient Sanskrit texts. 

Punjabi is, like any other contemporary north Indian language, a contemporary version of one of the Prakrits (regional dialects of Sanskrit). 

The word Punjabi applies to the contemporary form, not to its older Prakrit form. 

The period that you have in mind, the period of composition of 'Vedas , Upanishads and Mahabharata' did not have Punjabi in its present form. 

So to use the data such as Shah Mir etc. from the  tongues much much later to someone or some people  born before the earliest documented use of the word ('Kashmeera > Kaashmeera' ) in the ancient Sanskrit texts, does not help. 

 

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Nagaraj Paturi

 

Hyderabad, Telangana, INDIA.

 

Former Senior Professor of Cultural Studies

 

FLAME School of Communication and FLAME School of  Liberal Education,

 

(Pune, Maharashtra, INDIA )

 

 

 

[Ramanathan Sharma]

This has me wondering what is the meaning of Nepal. Is the word "Nepal' a sanskrit word?

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

I'm puzzled as to why Sanskrit etymologies are required for toponyms or names of regions. Of the traditional 16 janapada's, how many really had tenable Sanskrit etymologies? 

In the same spirit of argument, why must we require 'Kashmir' and 'Nepal' to have Sanskrit etymologies? For example, names like 'Anga', 'Vanga' and 'Kalinga' are used in Sanskrit but do they really have good Sanskrit etymologies? 

Srini

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