How do we pay homage ?

[Anand Ghurye]

Dear Friends ,

When someone dies a Christian says " May the soul rest in peace . "  What we say depends on our belief and our faith . A Charvakian may just keep quiet . What do the followers of other philosophies say ? For example an Advaiti ?

Will you point some sources where I can get more information ?

Regards ,

Anand Ghúryé

*Training*Development*Synectics
Space Page : 9820489416

[अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः]

नमस्ते श्रीमन् घुर्ये-महोदय !

कस्यापि मरणस्य वार्तायां "दिवङ्गतः" इति शब्दप्रयोगः भवति | अस्य अर्थे एव मृतः दिवं गतः (नरकं न) इत्यभिप्रेतम् |

मृतस्य बान्धवेभ्यः यदि किञ्चिद्वक्तव्यं तर्हि "सद्गतिर्भवतु" एवं उच्यते खलु | 

द्रष्टव्यं ननु रामायणे दशरथस्य मरणस्य वार्ता श्रीरामं कथं ज्ञापिता | अथवा महाभारते द्रोणाचार्यस्य वा दुर्योधनस्य मरणस्य वार्ता धृतराष्ट्रं कथं ज्ञापिता |

सस्नेहम्
अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः ।
"श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् ।"

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[Manish Modi]

Dear Anand ji,

Jay Jinendra

Quite right. People convey condolences as per their own belief systems. As as Jain I would say, "May his soul attain eternal peace." For us, eternal peace means escape from the cycle of transmigration = moksha. 

Manish

[Rajam Srinivasan]

I have observed the following in Hindu Temple in New York:  Hindus (some) offer the ritual of "ahtottara" or " sahasra naama" in the name/s of their ancestors (generally the recently dead relatives like parents/grand-paarents, older siblings etc.).  The priests mention "aatma shaanti" during reciting the "sankalpa!"  -- they pronounce "aaatma-shaantyaartham"  (or similar phrase/s).  I assumed that such "phala-shruthi" seeking the "phala" of "aatma-shaanti" for your beloved departed is normal, accepted and regular ritual.  Am I wrong?  To do so is an "apachaara" against one's pitrus?  Should we do "praayashchitta" for that?

I am a little anguished because I (a female) has done it in the name of my parents, grand-mother, older and younger siblings and an older sister (atthey) of my father -- whom I hadn't even seen, but my father had never forgotten her and did "shraaddha" for her throughout his life time!  

I hope, somebody will help me out.  My father passed away (30 years ago) on the day following Upaakarma which falls on August 11th of this year.  I am not sure, if I should do it or not.  HELP!!  Please!!!

---

Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 01:27:44 -0700
From: manis...@gmail.com
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Samskrita] Re: How do we pay homage ?

[Hnbhat B.R.]

A good reply. Do we pray in Sanskrit or inscribe in Sanskrit on the
burrial stone RIP?

Please read this discussion in another scholars' group:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/bvparishat/F1oD8EkjmxU/KUEdgNelPE8J

and do not make misuse of your Sanskrit knowledge and the knowledge of
others also for some imitation of western practice.

On 8/8/14, Rajam Srinivasan <raj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have observed the following in Hindu Temple in New York: Hindus (some)
> offer the ritual of "ahtottara" or " sahasra naama" in the name/s of their
> ancestors (generally the recently dead relatives like
> parents/grand-paarents, older siblings etc.). The priests mention "aatma
> shaanti" during reciting the "sankalpa!" -- they pronounce
> "aaatma-shaantyaartham" (or similar phrase/s). I assumed that such
> "phala-shruthi" seeking the "phala" of "aatma-shaanti" for your beloved
> departed is normal, accepted and regular ritual. Am I wrong? To do so is
> an "apachaara" against one's pitrus? Should we do "praayashchitta" for
> that?
> I am a little anguished because I (a female) has done it in the name of my
> parents, grand-mother, older and younger siblings and an older sister
> (atthey) of my father -- whom I hadn't even seen, but my father had never
> forgotten her and did "shraaddha" for her throughout his life time!
> I hope, somebody will help me out. My father passed away (30 years ago) on
> the day following Upaakarma which falls on August 11th of this year. I am
> not sure, if I should do it or not. HELP!! Please!!!
>

> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 01:27:44 -0700
> From: manis...@gmail.com
> To: sams...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [Samskrita] Re: How do we pay homage ?
>

> Dear Anand ji,Jay Jinendra

[Anand Ghurye]

Dear Friends Thanks for your help.

[Narendra Sakhalkar]

Dear Aanandji, Namaskar.

A good question,very well answered.

Ram,Ram.

Narendra Sakhalkar

Ram,Ram.
Narendra Sakhalkar

[P.K.Ramakrishnan]

Among Hindus when some one passes away some would say he has gone to Kailasam. Some would say he has gone Vaikuntam.

In Poona I have seen some name plates showing - this house belongsto Kai.====== or 

Vai========.  

 

-----------------------------------
P.K.Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com

[Usha Sanka]

Namaste

I do not know about specific matas- but generally Hindus believe in next world-- so they say "May the soul reach better worlds-" (उत्तमलोकान् प्राप्नोतु..) [And that lokas depend upon specific beliefs-- in general it is svarga] 

Or they say- "May the soul get सद्गति .." 

According to my understanding, whole अन्त्येष्टि course directs towards this very goal. Their intention is "May departed souls and loosen ties with this birth and find their way to next step (next birth) easily.. "

When it is case of a सन्यासी or a realized soul, then they say- they attained समाधि or became ब्रह्मलीन etc.

I heard that आत्मशान्ति is a wrong term.. because it is not आत्मा (?) that leaves body, but the सूक्ष्मशरीर = subtle body (consisting of 17 parts = 5 organs of perception, 5 organs of action, 5 प्राणs or vital forces, the manas, and the buddhi) which contains impressions from the birth or life-time just-spent. This might be causing disturbance for the soul to move ahead, and all prayers by nears and dears are headed towards that aim- making the soul's journey off-subtle-body, smooth. 

Hope it helps.

Thankyou

-vinItA

उषा

[Rajam Srinivasan]

Dear Shreemathi Vineeta;

Thank you most kindly for this post which definitely helped me a lot.  My knowledge of Samskrit is very VERY close to ZERO.  (I have been abroad for more than 50 years -- left India  rather young; I was not really trying to abuse my non-existing Samskrit knowledge!)  Actually the Temple Vaadyaar (priest) agreed with you about the inappropriateness of the term -- aatma-shaanthi, he said when the devotees request for any specific puja, such as 108 or 1000 naamaas, for the sake of "aatmashaanthi" of their beloved departed ones, the priests simply follow their "order" (as if it is some kind of menu in a restaurant :((!

Thank you again, your answer came just in time and also thanks to Prof.  Bhatt for the web-page; the priest suggested that I seek -- Raamaanuja-aachaarya's sacred lotus feet!  I am so very happy for it because my father was very fond of our Aachaarya; he and his elder sister actually worked in Melkote (the final earthly abode of the Aachaarya -- I think) and my own sister's marriage was to a family in Melkote, which served the main Temple of Sri Sampathkumaara  Perumaal which also houses Raamaanuja's shrine!!

Dear all, please accept my sincere gratitude for all your posts -- I am really VERY VERY HAPPY:))  

---

Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 19:40:07 +0530
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] How do we pay homage ?
From: usha....@gmail.com
To: sams...@googlegroups.com

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 4:59 PM, Anand Ghurye <anand....@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friends ,

When someone dies a Christian says " May the soul rest in peace . "  What we say depends on our belief and our faith . A Charvakian may just keep quiet . What do the followers of other philosophies say ? For example an Advaiti ?

Advaita and other philosophies do not preach what is after death and whether it is to be by the prayers.

Bhagavadgita has certain reflections, but it does not say anything, that the "gati" is attained by the prayers by others. It believes in rebirth theory which is unique to Hinduism. And according different religions, they have they are their own beliefs and you have go through the history of religions and some books written of religious believes. But Indian guide to principles of Upanishads- 

वासांसि जीर्णानि यथा विहाय नवानि गृह्णाति नरोऽपराणि । 

तथा शरीराणि विहाय जीर्णा- न्यन्यानि संयाति नवानि देही ॥ श्रीमद भगवदगीता – (२:२२ )

and for the betterment of the soul, after the death, it is due to the Aatman himself, and not due to any prayer from anybody living:

उद्धरेदात्मनाऽत्मानं नात्मानमवसादयेत्‌ । 

आत्मैव ह्यात्मनो बन्धुरात्मैव रिपुरात्मनः ॥

So there is no question of resting in peace at a place by the prayer of anybody. ONLY the good deeds yields पुण्य, and bad deeds, yield पाप and the souls enjoy the results of पुण्य कर्म in स्वर्ग, and पापकर्म in नरक, and reborn on earth either in any body to enjoy the resultant कर्म-s. 

ते तं भुक्त्वा स्वर्गलोकं विशालं क्षीणे पुण्ये मर्त्यलोकं विशन्ति।

So according to Indian Philosophy and Hinduism, which believes in कर्म theory and पुनर्जन्म there is question of resting at a place.

For other religions, you may have to look for the followers of other religion and their belief.

Jainism, which has only the state of the soul after death, is only the position in the ether, high and low levels, according to their deeds.

Buddhism, which do not recornize the rebirth or soul after existence, than the concience pure or nothing else.

This what I can say to your question in short. The ritualism in Hinduism, prescribe many Vedic rites for attaining Svarga, after this life and many things in life. Hence it is not by the prayer of others relatives, nears and friends that their souls rest in peach. 

Bhagagavan Srikrishna, suggests the way to escape restless journey of birth and death cycle:

आब्रह्मभुवनाल्लोकाः पुनरावर्तिनोSर्जुन | 

मामुपेत्य तु कौन्तेय पुनर्जन्म न विद्यते || गीता ८/१६ ||

The question about life after death, was first raised and discussed with the death of God Yama, by Naciketa:

येयं प्रेते विचिकित्सा मनुष्येऽस्तीत्येके नायमस्तीति चैके । 

एतद्विद्यामनुशिष्टस्त्वयाहं वराणामेष वरस्तृतीय : ॥२०॥ 

 

You may read the discussion and the reply by Yama himself, in कठोपनिषत्।

 'आत्मा वा अरे द्रष्टव्यः श्रोतव्यो मन्तव्यो निदिध्यासितव्यः' – 'Ãtmã vã are drashtavyaha shrotavyo mantavyo nididhyãsitavyaha' (Bruhadãranyaka Upanishad: 2/4/5)

This is the starting point of Vedanta philosophy in general, and the relationship with the God or Brahma. All the means to attain the knowledge of the soul, which would result in peace by merging or resting in Brahma. This is the stand of philosophy.

Sorry I didn't concentrate on all the sides of your question, as I do  not have the knowledge of all other religions and their beliefs. Only I replied on the Indian Philosophy, the stand of Vedanta philosophy based on Upanishads. I have given the sources for my reply but certainly not for your questions, how people say.

[Usha Sanka]

Happy to find your question answered madam. 

More details about departed souls can be had from Garuda Purana. It is a very detailed account on this subject.

We cannot say "Rest in peace" or perform poojas in their names- but I heard from elders - that we can recite whole Akshara-parabrahma-yoga- the 8th chapter of Bhagavadgita - and devote the fruit of its chanting to the departed soul..  It is the general practice.. and they say that its fruit reaches them. I do not exactly know source of this practice.

One more thing- (Just to clear- as it happened once before also-) My name is not vineetA- It is Usha. :) It does not appear in gmail even when I write in the end without fail-- because the google fellow trims it off- So I did write it in Devanagari.

I do not know how to make it appear always- may be include it in signature kind of thing. vinItA is like- इत्थं विनीता- in our culture..

Namaste

-उषा

On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Rajam Srinivasan <raj...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shreemathi Vineeta;

Thank you most kindly for this post which definitely helped me a lot.  My knowledge of Samskrit is very VERY close to ZERO.  (I have been abroad for more than 50 years -- left India  rather young; I was not really trying to abuse my non-existing Samskrit knowledge!)  Actually the Temple Vaadyaar (priest) agreed with you about the inappropriateness of the term -- aatma-shaanthi, he said when the devotees request for any specific puja, such as 108 or 1000 naamaas, for the sake of "aatmashaanthi" of their beloved departed ones, the priests simply follow their "order" (as if it is some kind of menu in a restaurant :((!

Thank you again, your answer came just in time and also thanks to Prof.  Bhatt for the web-page; the priest suggested that I seek -- Raamaanuja-aachaarya's sacred lotus feet!  I am so very happy for it because my father was very fond of our Aachaarya; he and his elder sister actually worked in Melkote (the final earthly abode of the Aachaarya -- I think) and my own sister's marriage was to a family in Melkote, which served the main Temple of Sri Sampathkumaara  Perumaal which also houses Raamaanuja's shrine!!

Dear all, please accept my sincere gratitude for all your posts -- I am really VERY VERY HAPPY:))  

---

--

"-यद्गत्वा न निवर्तन्ते तद्धाम परमं मम"