Etymology - Kerala

[P.K.Ramakrishnan]

In ancient days there were three tamil speaking kingdoms. These were cheram, cholam and

pandyam. In the chera region Parasurama brought the Kannada speaking Brahmins from

Karnataka.  They are today known as namputhiris.  In Kannada the word for a house is 

Mana.  The Namputhiris also call their houses Mana.

In Kannada language cha of Tamil becomes ka.  Example chevi > kevi.

chempu > kempu.  chemmannu > kemmannu. Likewise cheram became keram.

Later the name of the most important produce of keram was being called keram namely

the coconut.  The name for this in Tamil is thenkay which in Malayalam is thenka or thenga.

Later the region which has abundance of keram became Keralam. In Sanskrit la is added

to a word to indicate abundance. tundila, jatila etc are examples in Sanskrit. So la was

added to kera to become kerala meaning having abundanceof kera.

-----------------------------------
P.K.Ramakrishnan
http://peekayar.blogspot.com

[अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः]

Dear Mr. Ramakrishnan,

Since you have mentioned some comparison between words in Tamil and Kannada, I am also curious about the following -

(1) Kannada - Hogu Tamil - Pogu, Kannada - Haalu, Tamil - Paalu Kannada - hiDi (= catch), Tamil - piDi What can be the logic Kannada has consonant 'h' in place of 'p' in Tamil ?

(2) Could it be that Bengaluru is derived from Pengal ooru (place where ladies were dominant ?) I think, पबयोरभेदः is well-understandable, especially because Tamil has same letter for 'p' and 'b'.

(3) There has also been वबयोरभेदः The British spelt Vijapur as Bijapur.

(4) From the history and etymology, you have given, language in Kerala during the time of those three kingdoms was Tamil.

(5) From what I know, Telugu, Kannada and Malyalam scripts are much richer than Tamil. Maybe people in respective regions thought it good to have richer scripts and also ended up cultivating their own languages.

सस्नेहम्
अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः ।
"श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् ।"

[G S S Murthy]

In haLagannaDa used by Pampa and Ranna (old kannada)  paal, pogu and piDi are used. The transition to 'h' from 'p' had occurred by the time of Kumaravyasa.

Regards,

Murthy 

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My web site : http://murthygss.tripod.com/index.htm
and also my Sanskrit blog :

http://simplesanskrit.blogspot.com/

http://gssmurthy.blogspot.com

[अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः | श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् ।]

That is interesting information, Murthy-Mahodaya !

Is there chronological data about times of Pampa and Ranna and Kumaravyasa ?

[G S S Murthy]

It is believed Ranna and Pampa lived around 10th century AD and Kumaravyasa 14th-15th century AD.

Murthy

On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 10:55 AM, अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः | श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् । <sl.abh...@gmail.com> wrote:

That is interesting information, Murthy-Mahodaya !

Is there chronological data about times of Pampa and Ranna and Kumaravyasa ?

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[Rajam Srinivasan]

In our school-days we were informed that BegaLuuru is derived from "benda kaaLuuru." -- the city (uuru) of cooked (benda) kaaLU (the seeds), with the following explanatary story: --  When PaaNDavaas were banished, Kauravaas occasionally tried to make their lives more miserable by mocking them in some way or other.  One time a messenger was sent with the "seeds" to be sown for growing food.  Only problem?  The seeds were already cooked and dried:((  The "benda kaaLu" -- the cooked seed were fed to the birds by formidable Draupadi.  The birds swallowed the seeds.  When the very same seeds were ejected by the birds on the ground through their excreta, Lo and Behold!!  they germinated and sprouted and grew up to be food plants:))  Needless to say that this and similar stories delighted the children to no end!

Even now Draupadi is as revered as any Goddess.  She is worshipped in her own temples on a regular basis.  She is worshipped in the fields,and offered prayers for good harvest.  In fact, the famous B'lore "karaga - festival" is in honor of Draupadi and Dharmaraja.  In Melkote (Thiru Narayana Pura) an ancient pilgrim center near B'lore has a network of caves known as "PaaNDava" caves.  That area is replete with topographical sites reminding us of Mahabharata and also Raamaayana.

It is narrated that VibhishaNa of Ramaayana gifted "iron" to the people around here as a token of his appreciation of their help to him.  unfortunately, I don't recall the details.  But the word for "iron" is also connected with the name of the city.

About the shortened script of Tamil in terms of "vargiiya-vyanjanaas" -- the classified consonants (the classes being ka, cha, Ta, tha, pa vargas) there are two different narratives.  1.  The following story (I don't know if it could be considered a theory) is that the Tamilians' auditory capacity is so poor that they cannot discern the minute difference between "mahaa-praaNa and alpa praaNa --( ka and KHa) and structural integrity of their jaws is not efficient enough to make difference in pronounciation of ka and ga!  2.  The second story is :--  The Tamilians trace their origin to the most ancient times ("khaNDam period" -- I really don't know what it is) which has enabled them to understand most precisely all that is intended even without any differentiation between k and KHA, and  between ka and ga -- a kind of synesthetic (?) ability!!  "Kabir's NirguNa Brahma"  becomes "gabirs NirKuNA Prama"!  If non-Tamilians can't figure them out, it is too bad, it is their problem:))  Afterall who else but Tamilians were the favorites of Great Agastya muni?  (Sorry, Great Akasdyar?)

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Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2015 01:35:22 +0530
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Etymology - Kerala
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[Rajam Srinivasan]

It is also reported that Kumaravyasa's composition was read/commented upon (in a "ghoshti" in the presence of Sringeri Guru)/ by Purandara Dasa.

---

Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 16:17:09 +0530

Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Etymology - Kerala

From: murt...@gmail.com
To: sams...@googlegroups.com

[Subrahmanian R]

Sirs,

According to Sheldon Pollock in 'The Language of the Gods in the World of Men',

The first extant literary work in Kannada, Pampa’s Bhratam, also titled the

VikramArjunavijayam (Arjuna’s Victory of Power, c. 950). Within a couple of generations, Ranna produced his Sahasabhimavijayam. The first dictionary, only fragmentarily preserved, is the so called ‘Rannanighantu’ (c.990) ascribed to Ranna, emperor-poet to the Kings of Kalyana Chalukya Dynasty.

With respects

R Subrahmanian

[Srinivasakrishnan ln]

It's to my regret that utter rubbish is being purveyed in this group the name of etymology. The  recent post by Rajam Srinivasan of course takes the cake. Greats like Tilak and Gokhale used to pronounce 'f' and 'z' as 'ph' and 'j'. Perhaps Rajam Srinivasan thinks their hearing was impaired too. Perhaps Ms/Mr Rajam Srinivasan would submit an audio recording of her/his English and let's submit it to an English accent expert. The resulting report would be interesting, to say the least.

The thread started so inauspiciously with PK Ramakrishnan  sending some absurd stuff about the word Kerala having come from coconut. For god's sake read some books. If you can't, don't write.  How come people think that what passes for expertise in some chest thumping  Brahmin forums can pass muster in a forum that seeks to discuss Sanskrit?

Re origin of the term 'Kerala', please read Asoka's use of the term 'Keralaputo', the Tamil Classics' use of the term 'cēramān' and start drawing some conclusions there.

One can of course overlook  ignorance but not utter bilge of the type spewed by Rajam Srinivasan. I'm not even sure if this person has read any Tamil grammar and how the grammar treatises spell out how Sanskrit words are to be Tamilized (rendered into tatsama and tadbhava words) .  In the absence of such knowledge, Rajam Srinivasan's posts on this thread need to be considered  'mentally impaired'.

Utterly disgusted,

Srini

[dhaval patel]

I also feel that the discussion about tamilians was not at all warranted. Especially the sarcasm and high handedndss was too evident all throughout. Let us respect cultural differences. Regrets

[Hnbhat B.R.]

I too agree with Dhaval's opinion as the silly remark by Ramakrishnan has gone away from its object which is obvious to the speakers of dDravidian languages, if they have studied linguistic development according historical lingistcs or comparative Dravidian linguists or speakers of any other Dravidian language than their mother tongue or native language language.

Instead this thread is dwindling away in the wrong way.

[अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः]

It is not Mr. Ramakrishnan but Mr. Rajam Srinivasan who vitiated the flow of the thread.

Mr. Ramakrishnan started the thread based on information available with him.

People can add information what is available with them or raise questions arising. But nothing should be said, which can cause hurt.

Dr. Dhaval Patel pointing out and Dr. Bhat endorsing it will only lengthen the thread. There has to be some thought as to how the wrong flow of the thread can be set right.

Can the moderator look into this ?

[Naresh Cuntoor]

I have deleted several messages posted in this thread (including reasonable responses with which I agreed). In those emails, further explanations by some participants in thread hardly served any purpose.

No more messages on this thread, please.

Naresh