lot of questions - customizing template

[J.P.]

Hi all,

I have a questions from user & developer point of view with customizing Sahana. 

Please help me with answers  and guide to documentation, if available. Don't laugh some dumb questions, I need translate answers to my developer. 

I hope that the custom changes will be developed on custom trunk of Sahana, so that questions are not the developing tasks for Sahana community at the moment. :)

Questions are mainly about redesigning and developing custom template. The goal is improve the UX and learning curve for all type of users, mostly technicaly unskilled. The main functions are still based on core Sahana and will be untouched. 

Is there any basic or principal limitation or impossibility with customizing HTML templates and their CSS3 styles for Sahana? 

For example: 

adding a true responsive behaviour to all main pages in modules for any screen resolution. Included size-changing fonts, live size-changing object, customizing UX for mobile devices & tablets. (Of course, with some acceptable limits)

True responsive example see at www.avid.com (don’t look at content, just this kind of behaviour :)

- adding custom global CSS3 affect to any element on all module pages

- reordering objects on page, reordering navigation menus, form items and navigaton items in the template with keeping their full functionality

- adding a better design for drop-downs, links or buttons in template to improove the UX, look and feel

- adding a new text hints inside existing textfields (if they are translatable, it will be better)

- adding extra margin for some active objects for better use on touch tablets and smartphones.

- changing the buttons to custom image icon inside tables for better space management

- changing view email of logged user in top menu to wiev of his simplier Initials (most_emails.are_too_long@too_long_domain.com)

- changing screen behavior (not functionality) of some form elements, like color changing of required fields, checkboxes etc… 

- changing dimensions of pop-up menus for better read the content without scrolling bars

- changing the wiew of full URL in the DB listing into the icon link (because URL are too long for listing)

- reading simple /or tagged text from any part of database and use it in page layout depend on search query

Require the reordering or adding fields to table views huge impact to core Sahana, or just extensive changes the HTML template of Sahana? Have You any recommendation or straight not recommend edit and customizing the table views? for example: Is it possible read the images saved in DB straight from DB into cell of tables and prepare the custom view of table lists of data using AJAX instant switch? Or maybe exist better way to do something like that? 

Is it possible adding OpenID autentification code to login/register form?

Is it possible translate and customize confirmation email which sent from Sahana to new user? 

Is it possible include the wysiwyg editor TinyMCE enwironment in some pages in some modules with preservation of GNU/GPL free of charge / Nonprofit use? 

http://archive.tinymce.com/wiki.php/TinyMCE3x:License

How difficult is that implementation? (easy-complicated?) 

Is it possible update the QGIS window in Map module to the latest build to provide better functionality of tab interface?  GUI with Sahana CSS templating?

Is it possible change the functionality in the map window inside module  pages, to better point and click interactivity with non-mouse devices (typially smartphones or tablets)? 

Is it possible revide funcionality of timeline widget simile in the module Warehouse? I think that actually not working properly.

Is it available funcionality of managing user roles across modules as we  can see on RMS-IFRC/Aidiq ? How to switch on, or use if Yes? 

Is it possible to add checkboxes into  the table list-view on most of modules in Sahana for batch remove filtered data from DB? Functionality available just for administrators / owners of data.

Is it possible change the query result in forms for dropdowns? 

Now drop-down Facilities belonging to the Organizations. Can I simply change behavior into the new functionality: Facilities belonging Offices Belonging Organizations? That will be much helpfull and user friendly because I shrink a thousands-item drop-down into the hundred-item drop-down menu. 

is there a custom breadcrumb code for navigating pages inside Sahana interface? If Yes, where I can switch on and use it? 

is it possible unify and remove bugs from the Import/export templates for consistent Import XLS and exact export CSV? How deep and difficult is that intervention into core code? (Examples of inconsistency and outdated fiels in templates available) 

is it possible to batch import of large sets (ten thousands) of small images/icons/QR codes 400x400 px / 60kb into DB for  joining it with database items of Organisations, Offices, Facility based on their unique name and based on XLS template import with included unique name? for example: Organisation_name.png

This single batch import can be used just for developing, not required in public functionality. 

is it possible to change template of PDF for volunteer leaflet to print better contact info, add QR code or image stored in DB?  

Can be the custom template smoothly used with core Sahana in the future builds of Sahana? How much time-consuming would be future upgrade custom trunk of Sahana with the new core?  I understand, that not be easy, but I see that the other project (RMS/IFRC-Aidiq) have old custom templates and new build of Sahana. How they do that fast and almost immediatelly? 

Does the change type of database (MySQL to PgSQL) and webservices environments impact on customizing some functionality of Sahana (eg. query, or I/O data, or HTML/CSS design)?  

I found this page

http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/wiki/DeveloperGuidelines/Themes#CustomizingFormDesignbyTheme

and seems to me like nice guide to range of custom modifications layouts and CSS. 

I se that say almost all about customizing, but I’m not sure. 

I found a nice examples of custom templating, but I can’t check it completely. 

http://demo.lacrmt.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/index

http://demo.drm.tl/eden/project/project

Does it use the same customizing principles as latest Sahana? 

Is it possible to get demo login? 

Is it good idea run the Sahana on MySQL on the same web-server environments even with the lot of other software which completely runs on PgSQL? Or better run all the software on PgSQL on the same virtual image? 

Is the https://linuxcontainers.org recommended environment to build custom Sahana virtual image,  or for safe future You recommend only Sahana virtual image (Ubuntu/Debian/etc.. ) an its updates? 

Is it possible install a fresh build CAP broker into fresh build Sahana using Cascading template functionality? 

What next i set to get the CAP broker interface?

Is it possible install a fresh build SAMBRO into fresh build Sahana using Cascading template functionality? 

What next i set to get the SAMBRO interface?

is it possible to use Mobile software 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sambro-mobile/id1127251669

with base instalation of Sahana, or necessary other special SW to run both for interchange data? 

When we expect next build of Sahana? This Year, or..? 

and last question: Can You give me rough estimate the complexity of that ideas and custom changes in relation with the common developing skills?  Hundreds hours of developing, advanced skills.. totally impossible…. etc?  

Thanks a lot for any (YES/NO) answer. It helps me with future developing. 

If necessary, I provide a visual concept wireframe of template changes to see and make better assessment of my questions.

Best & kind regards, (sorry for my English) 

Jiri P.

[Dominic König]

Hi J.P.--

there is a rough "yes, but" to most of your possible-questions below, and many of the features you're asking for are actually standard. Some are impossible, though, at least in free software.

Any more detailed reply would require several days of work - which this volunteer community forum simply doesn't have the bandwidth for, nor is the community especially keen to support downstream development for free.

You could get lucky if you split up your inquiry into one or two questions at a time and spread it out over the course of a month or so /and/ your developer team would contribute to core Sahana.

A more promising alternative for your intentions could be to hire Sahana experts to directly support your developer team, or at least to provide you with a comprehensive report to your assessment. There are several commercial entities available for that kind of job (see under Service Providers on www.sahanafoundation.org), which you can contact directly.

Best wishes,

Dominic König

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[Louiqa Raschid]

I agree with Dominic that this is multiple days of work ... 

Why don't you pick one set of customization(s) and ask your developer to work with Fran and Dominic to see how far (s)he is able to go? Louiqa Raschid

[J.P.]

Hi Dominic and Louiqa, 

thank You for reply. 

I'm already pick the developer, he is member of this community. I advised him to discuss any question with community, but he reply on most of my question "NO, its misconception, extremely hard and impossible" Im little bit confused from  his results against the Sahana developer guides. 

I totally agree with You and respect the community. I don't want waste your time for free and digg the community know-how for free. 

I dont hesitate to sign developer agreement and provide all the works for public use. My plan i provide the results for local NGO agency in Czech Republic use for free. 

Also possible to discuss about support custom development. I'm user of this discussion forum for years and discuss with some members, also Michael Howden, Fran, Dominic and others... 

Its a little bit hard to explain details. But I want to try this.  

Please provide me the bank account of Sahana foundation and I immediately send the non-binding financial support. Or something that not seems like theatrical  gesture. 

No need quick and extremely detailed answers, your support is helpful for years already.

Thank You. 

Best regards, 

Jiri Podhorecky, Prague, Czech  Republic. 

Dne pondělí 3. dubna 2017 8:09:56 UTC+2 Dominic napsal(a):

Hi J.P.--

there is a rough "yes, but" to most of your possible-questions below, and many of the features you're asking for are actually standard. Some are impossible, though, at least in free software.

Any more detailed reply would require several days of work - which this volunteer community forum simply doesn't have the bandwidth for, nor is the community especially keen to support downstream development for free.

You could get lucky if you split up your inquiry into one or two questions at a time and spread it out over the course of a month or so /and/ your developer team would contribute to core Sahana.

A more promising alternative for your intentions could be to hire Sahana experts to directly support your developer team, or at least to provide you with a comprehensive report to your assessment. There are several commercial entities available for that kind of job (see under Service Providers on www.sahanafoundation.org), which you can contact directly.

Best wishes,

Dominic König

3 apr. 2017 kl. 04:17 skrev J.P. <j.podh...@gmail.com>:

Hi all,

I have a questions from user & developer point of view with customizing Sahana. 

Please help me with answers  and guide to documentation, if available. Don't laugh some dumb questions, I need translate answers to my developer. 

I hope that the custom changes will be developed on custom trunk of Sahana, so that questions are not the developing tasks for Sahana community at the moment. :)

Questions are mainly about redesigning and developing custom template. The goal is improve the UX and learning curve for all type of users, mostly technicaly unskilled. The main functions are still based on core Sahana and will be untouched. 

Is there any basic or principal limitation or impossibility with customizing HTML templates and their CSS3 styles for Sahana? 

For example: 

adding a true responsive behaviour to all main pages in modules for any screen resolution. Included size-changing fonts, live size-changing object, customizing UX for mobile devices & tablets. (Of course, with some acceptable limits)

True responsive example see at www.avid.com (don’t look at content, just this kind of behaviour :)

- adding custom global CSS3 affect to any element on all module pages

- reordering objects on page, reordering navigation menus, form items and navigaton items in the template with keeping their full functionality

- adding a better design for drop-downs, links or buttons in template to improove the UX, look and feel

- adding a new text hints inside existing textfields (if they are translatable, it will be better)

- adding extra margin for some active objects for better use on touch tablets and smartphones.

- changing the buttons to custom image icon inside tables for better space management

- changing view email of logged user in top menu to wiev of his simplier Initials (most_emails....@too_long_domain.com)

[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 03:17, J.P. <j.podh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a questions from user & developer point of view with customizing
> Sahana.

Reiterating the fact that a detailed response would be significant
effort, I'll try & give a little more detail:

> Is there any basic or principal limitation or impossibility with customizing
> HTML templates and their CSS3 styles for Sahana?

No...given effort, everything is possible.

> For example:
> adding a true responsive behaviour to all main pages in modules for any
> screen resolution. Included size-changing fonts, live size-changing object,
> customizing UX for mobile devices & tablets. (Of course, with some
> acceptable limits)

The default template is already responsive.
We currently use Foundation 5 as our default environment, which is a
fully responsive framework.
We also support Bootstrap, which is also a responsive framework.
Given effort, it would be possible to support other frameworks or even
fully custom CSS

Of course, there may be individual pages with specific problems, for
wehich fixes are welcomed, and I'm sure there is potential for
enhancements across the board.

> - adding custom global CSS3 affect to any element on all module pages

Possible in a number of ways

> - reordering objects on page, reordering navigation menus, form items and
> navigaton items in the template with keeping their full functionality

All possible, the dfifficulty level ranges from very easy (menu item
reordering) to more complex.
There are plenty of examples of where this is done already

> - adding a better design for drop-downs, links or buttons in template to
> improove the UX, look and feel

'better' is a subjective term, but of course, all this is
cutomisable....as-always some things are easier, some are harder, but
if you have time & skills or money it can be done.

> - adding a new text hints inside existing textfields (if they are
> translatable, it will be better)

Yes, easy

> - adding extra margin for some active objects for better use on touch
> tablets and smartphones.

This is just CSS...should be relatively simple.

> - changing the buttons to custom image icon inside tables for better space
> management

Easyish...examples are there already

> - changing view email of logged user in top menu to wiev of his simplier
> Initials (most_emails.are_too_long@too_long_domain.com)

Easyish

> - changing screen behavior (not functionality) of some form elements, like
> color changing of required fields, checkboxes etc…

Shouldn't be too hard

> - changing dimensions of pop-up menus for better read the content without
> scrolling bars

Seems like 'just CSS' to me...if you're implementing your own theme,
then all this should be possible to tweak to your heart's content.

> - changing the wiew of full URL in the DB listing into the icon link
> (because URL are too long for listing)

Not sure what you refer to, but custom represents should be easy

> - reading simple /or tagged text from any part of database and use it in
> page layout depend on search query

Very vague question...sounds a bit harder but I'm sure it's possible
if enough effort is applied.

> Require the reordering or adding fields to table views huge impact to core
> Sahana, or just extensive changes the HTML template of Sahana?

Sometimes very simple, sometimes a little more complex...performance
can be an issue if the fields you want require extra joins or even
more complex queries.
However the performance penalty should be pretty small for paginated
views if implemented correctly.

> Have You any
> recommendation or straight not recommend edit and customizing the table
> views? for example: Is it possible read the images saved in DB straight from
> DB into cell of tables and prepare the custom view of table lists of data
> using AJAX instant switch? Or maybe exist better way to do something like
> that?

We already have examples of where images are displayed in table views,
no especial thing against that...of course performance is impacted a
little, but should be manageable.

> Is it possible adding OpenID autentification code to login/register form?

Yes, this is simple configuration

> Is it possible translate and customize confirmation email which sent from
> Sahana to new user?

Yes, examples exist already - simple customisation.

> Is it possible include the wysiwyg editor TinyMCE enwironment in some pages
> in some modules with preservation of GNU/GPL free of charge / Nonprofit use?
> http://archive.tinymce.com/wiki.php/TinyMCE3x:License
> How difficult is that implementation? (easy-complicated?)

We already include CKEditor as a WYSIWYG editor.
Can't rmember what made us make that decision vs TinyMCE.
Am sure possible to add TinyMCE without too much effort if really required.
No idea about licensing.

> Is it possible update the QGIS window in Map module to the latest build to
> provide better functionality of tab interface? GUI with Sahana CSS
> templating?

QGIS window?
Sorry too vague to answer

> Is it possible change the functionality in the map window inside module
> pages, to better point and click interactivity with non-mouse devices
> (typially smartphones or tablets)?

Yes, this must be possible...it's been on my ToDo for several years
without anyone giving it sufficient priority for implementation.

> Is it possible revide funcionality of timeline widget simile in the module
> Warehouse?

We use Simile elsewhere...putting it into Warehouse seems fairly
easy...obviously would need proper requirements

> I think that actually not working properly.

?

> Is it available funcionality of managing user roles across modules as we
> can see on RMS-IFRC/Aidiq ? How to switch on, or use if Yes?

Yes,, see wiki & code

> Is it possible to add checkboxes into the table list-view on most of
> modules in Sahana for batch remove filtered data from DB? Functionality
> available just for administrators / owners of data.

Yes

> Is it possible change the query result in forms for dropdowns?

Don't udnerstand question, but I'm fairly sure it's a yes if we know
what you mean & you're prepared to put enough effort into the
implementation.

> Now drop-down Facilities belonging to the Organizations. Can I simply change
> behavior into the new functionality: Facilities belonging Offices Belonging
> Organizations? That will be much helpfull and user friendly because I shrink
> a thousands-item drop-down into the hundred-item drop-down menu.

Yes...often this is achieved through permissions, but can easily add
custom filters

> is there a custom breadcrumb code for navigating pages inside Sahana
> interface?

There is.

> If Yes, where I can switch on and use it?

Getting tired of typing currently... ;)

> is it possible unify and remove bugs from the Import/export templates for
> consistent Import XLS and exact export CSV? How deep and difficult is that
> intervention into core code? (Examples of inconsistency and outdated fiels
> in templates available)

'bugs' is unclear.
I hear you on the desire to have output XLS formats match import formats.
We have put effort into that at various places.

I would NOT look at core code for this but rather the specific
resource(s) you wish this for & then it can be done relatively
easily...although note that the export will not be as 'nice' then.

> is it possible to batch import of large sets (ten thousands) of small
> images/icons/QR codes 400x400 px / 60kb into DB for joining it with
> database items of Organisations, Offices, Facility based on their unique
> name and based on XLS template import with included unique name? for
> example: Organisation_name.png
> This single batch import can be used just for developing, not required in
> public functionality.

Never done before, but I'm sureit must be possible if enough effort is put in.

> is it possible to change template of PDF for volunteer leaflet to print
> better contact info, add QR code or image stored in DB?

Yes, all PDFs are fuly customisable

> Can be the custom template smoothly used with core Sahana in the future
> builds of Sahana?

No guarantees, no.
We are still at a pre-1.0 stage for such guaranteed API-level compatability.
However, we do put a lot of effort into not breaking downstreams...but
it helps *enormously* if we know about them...what modules they are
using, etc

> How much time-consuming would be future upgrade custom
> trunk of Sahana with the new core?

It depends a *lot* on what has been customised & what changed in core.

There are a few approaches:
* Upgrade Sahana core regurlarly to provide bite-sized changes which
can be reviewed easily & any necessary modifications made
* Don't upgrade Sahana core unless absolutely required & then look at
cherrypicking specific parts back

> I understand, that not be easy, but I
> see that the other project (RMS/IFRC-Aidiq) have old custom templates and
> new build of Sahana. How they do that fast and almost immediatelly?

We maintain the 2 together....since the custom templates are in the
core code then we can review the templates for issues & upgrade them
when required.
The core developers are also the same as the maintainers of the custom
templates so deep knowledge of the templates is there when changes to
core are considered, so we can avoid impacts where possible and where
not then we can implement necessary modifications quickly.
If you wish your custom template to have that same level of service
then it also needs to be maintained by the core developers.
For s simple template this is of course overkill, but for a very
complex template it might be the best option.

> Does the change type of database (MySQL to PgSQL) and webservices
> environments impact on customizing some functionality of Sahana (eg. query,
> or I/O data, or HTML/CSS design)?

To some extent of course, but generally we fully support MySQL &
PostgreSQL & Apache & Cherokee.
Other environments we don't test on.

> I found this page
> http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/wiki/DeveloperGuidelines/Themes#CustomizingFormDesignbyTheme
> and seems to me like nice guide to range of custom modifications layouts and
> CSS.
> I se that say almost all about customizing, but I’m not sure.

The page is accurate

> I found a nice examples of custom templating, but I can’t check it
> completely.
> http://demo.lacrmt.sahanafoundation.org/eden/default/index
> http://demo.drm.tl/eden/project/project
> Does it use the same customizing principles as latest Sahana?

Not always...the TL site especially is very old & had a very
simplistic security model so a lot of the pages were done in a custom
manner bypassing the Sahana framework. If this approach works for your
needs, then it is an option.
To me the CRMT site shows up how much effort can be required to
implment a custom theme, and how little of that can be easily ported
back to the core.
In general, Sahanaaims to be a rapid application development
environment applicable to many very different usecases...new
requirements can be very quickly implemented. With a custom theme like
CRMT so much is hardcoded & needs editing individually that this model
is very much broken....hence it not being a useful approach to adopt
for the Sahana core.
So, yes, it is possible to create fully custom designed pages like
this, but it can take quite a bit of effort & it is harder to maintain
like that and much harder to make that reusable for other usecases.

> Is it possible to get demo login?

These sites are owned by the clients, so no....you should set up your
own demo server using the template...this can just be on your laptop &
isn't hard.

> Is it good idea run the Sahana on MySQL on the same web-server environments
> even with the lot of other software which completely runs on PgSQL? Or
> better run all the software on PgSQL on the same virtual image?

Too complex a question to be able to answer easily here...in general
you should do what is supportable.
If we are supporting your Sahana deployment, we would prefer to use
PostgreSQL, however if you are and your skills are in MySQL & you
don't plan on making use of Spatial queries then MySQL is perfectly
fine.

> Is the https://linuxcontainers.org recommended environment to build custom
> Sahana virtual image

Never come across this before, so cannot answer

> , or for safe future You recommend only Sahana virtual
> image (Ubuntu/Debian/etc.. ) an its updates?

In general, any Linux is possible, but the one that we support is
Debian...the more you diverge from this the more you are on your own.
If you have time/skills to manage that then you can make that choice.

> Is it possible install a fresh build CAP broker into fresh build Sahana
> using Cascading template functionality?
> What next i set to get the CAP broker interface?
> Is it possible install a fresh build SAMBRO into fresh build Sahana using
> Cascading template functionality?
> What next i set to get the SAMBRO interface?

These are pretty much the same question...SAMBRO is the template which
uses the CAP module.
They are theoretically separable, although not obvious to me why you'd do that.

http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/wiki/DeveloperGuidelines/Templates

> is it possible to use Mobile software
> https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sambro-mobile/id1127251669
> with base instalation of Sahana, or necessary other special SW to run both
> for interchange data?

SAMBRO mobile is a hard-coded application to a very specific usecase.
If you have the same usecase then you can use this application with
your instance.

> When we expect next build of Sahana? This Year, or..?

We push new code almost every day.
We don't produce 'builds' as this implies a whole host of things like
upgradeability and since pretty much every serious Sahana deployment
is customised this is *very* hard to do properly.

> and last question: Can You give me rough estimate the complexity of that
> ideas and custom changes in relation with the common developing skills?
> Hundreds hours of developing, advanced skills.. totally impossible…. etc?

As-before, some things here are simple/standard, some will take more
effort....some a *lot* more effort.
Of course the more experienced the developers are with this
environment the less time it will take them.

I suspect it will take 100s of hours to do everything that you want
(it takes a long time even just to develop clear specifications and
then create detailed estimates)....but if you ruthlessly prioritise
what you want & are prepared to compromise then you can achieve some
results quickly.

Best Wishes,
Fran.

[J.P.]

Hi Fran, 

Many thanks for Your detailed answer. Most of Your replies makes sense to me. I see that lots of that is possible and relative easily to do. 

I hope that answers are explanatory for my next discussions and specifications with developer. 

Some of my question are unclear but your answer is formally useable to continue developing. 

Thanks a lot!

I will stay in touch and continue discuss eventually, please navigate me for funding Sahana. 

Jiri.

Dne pondělí 3. dubna 2017 11:27:37 UTC+2 Fran Boon napsal(a):

> Initials (most_emails....@too_long_domain.com)

[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 11:27, J.P. <j.podh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> please navigate me for funding Sahana.

Donate button at the top of this page:
https://sahanafoundation.org/

Takes you here:
https://www.razoo.com/story/Sahana-Software-Foundation

Best Wishes,
Fran.

[J.P.]

Hi Fran. 

Done.  my 5% of year income before tax funded to Razoo 

> is it possible unify and remove bugs from the Import/export templates for 
> consistent Import XLS and exact export CSV? How deep and difficult is that 
> intervention into core code? (Examples of inconsistency and outdated fiels 
> in templates available) 

'bugs' is unclear. 
I hear you on the desire to have output XLS formats match import formats. 
We have put effort into that at various places. 

see attached XLS file with group of  all templates and some my comments to columns. 

I hope that helps for future cleaning CSV template and import/export engine,  

Thanks, and have nice day

Jiri

Dne pondělí 3. dubna 2017 12:34:25 UTC+2 Fran Boon napsal(a):

[Dominic König]

As far as I can see,

most of the inconsistencies you point out are actually between web interface
and spreadsheet format. Most of them are somewhat natural, and do not really
need to be fixed (though they may need better documentation in places).

A few things for you to understand this:

1) The order of the columns in the spreadsheet does generally /not/ matter -
your CSV/XLS file can specify the fields in any arbitrary order, just re-order
them as you like.

2) Forms and labels are the one most commonly customized thing in Sahana -
virtually every template uses at least some context-specific variations.

The corresponding CSV/XLS templates will not automatically adapt to these
customizations - if you need/want matching web forms and CSV/XLS, then you
must also customize the spreadsheet template.

However, note that many columns allow multiple variants/formats - both for the
label and for the column value itself. Thus, customization may not always be
necessary. Additionally, HXL-style column hashtags can be configured to
identify rows with arbitrary labels, so that you can even have multiple
spreadsheet formats for the same resource.

One limit though: form labels can appear multiple times in the same form.
That's impossible in spreadsheets.

3) Web forms provide drop-downs from database look-ups - and such look-ups
will naturally not happen in offline spreadsheets! Thus, such columns in
spreadsheets will require enough detail to identify the records later during
import, and /that/ can differ significantly from the form input.

That's not a bug, but a necessity.

---

These three things cover the majority of the inconsistencies you discussed,
which suggests that better understanding (read: documentation/training) may
actually already solve it?

Dominic

[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 15:16, Dominic König <dom...@nursix.org> wrote:
> 2) Forms and labels are the one most commonly customized thing in Sahana -
> virtually every template uses at least some context-specific variations.
> The corresponding CSV/XLS templates will not automatically adapt to these
> customizations - if you need/want matching web forms and CSV/XLS, then you
> must also customize the spreadsheet template.
> However, note that many columns allow multiple variants/formats - both for the
> label and for the column value itself. Thus, customization may not always be
> necessary. Additionally, HXL-style column hashtags can be configured to
> identify rows with arbitrary labels, so that you can even have multiple
> spreadsheet formats for the same resource.
> One limit though: form labels can appear multiple times in the same form.
> That's impossible in spreadsheets.

In addition you can create custom XLS templates which can then be translated:
http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/wiki/UserGuidelines/Importer/Excel

This doesn't require any customisation of Sahana, just XLS


Note that there *is* a template for Sectors:
https://github.com/sahana/eden/blob/master/static/formats/s3csv/org/sector.csv

Download link available from your instance as /eden/org/import
(This may not have a menu entry to reach it , depending on the template)


You say 'repurpose for railway stations', but rather we should add a
new model for this if they are required.
Can start anyway with just a Facility with Type Railway Station.
We add a dedicated model for this if there are additional
railway-station specific attributes to store.
I currently have no list of attributes that we would want to store,
but if such a list were generated it would be an easy task to add
this.
This would be suitable for a volunteer, if one can be found, or could
be a little task as part of a wider contract with us.

F

[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 14:28, J.P. <j.podh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Done. my 5% of year income before tax funded to Razoo

Many thanks, am sure this will be put to good use :)

F

[J.P.]

Thank you for thoughts and explanations, 

My experience aims to prepare easy-use template-driven import&export data. 

I believe that customizing any templates is relative easy for developer.  At the moment my developer says that CSV/XLS importer is extremely complex and confused part of code. Any modifications require time-consuming rebuild Py app, testing and rebuilding again.  

My wishes is that CSV/XLS templates can be used in future with perfect identifiers,  translated headers and HXL and OpenData compatible for easy-use attach data from external sources. Most of that is already done. 

There is some fuzzy logic with columns like Phone (or Phone 1, Phone2... ) or "Type" Or "Name" in different templates. 

Yes, its very easy to renaming, or reordering a few columns, no problem for me.  Maybe a little problem for newbie users. 

Its a little bit harder to manage different kind of user data before first import to Sahana. 

some empty columns contains dash "-" but for sorting and merging is simply obsolete. 

...the column  Max Aircraft in airport template contains  some outdate types of planes. Better use the user defined data about max pressure 

5700 kg / 0,7 MPa

or international code 

PCN 25/R/A/Y/T

..etc.

 

just thoughts... :) 

I open this topic with my developer and hope that he help me with it. 

thanks  for Your time... 

Jiri.. 

Dne pondělí 3. dubna 2017 16:16:11 UTC+2 Dominic napsal(a):

[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 16:40, J.P. <j.podh...@gmail.com> wrote:

My experience aims to prepare easy-use template-driven import&export data. 

So I would create your own custom XLS templates for this purpose...as I said before this only requires XLS skills, not Sahana skills.

 

I believe that customizing any templates is relative easy for developer.  At the moment my developer says that CSV/XLS importer is extremely complex and confused part of code. Any modifications require time-consuming rebuild Py app, testing and rebuilding again.

Whilst the core Importer may be complex, the actual import templates are not Python at all...this is all done in XSL & these files don't need to be on the same server as the engine:

http://eden.sahanafoundation.org/wiki/S3/S3XML/Transformation

XSLT is easy or hard depending on your familiarity with it.

My wishes is that CSV/XLS templates can be used in future with perfect identifiers,  translated headers and HXL and OpenData compatible for easy-use attach data from external sources. Most of that is already done. 

There is some fuzzy logic with columns like Phone (or Phone 1, Phone2... ) or "Type" Or "Name" in different templates. 

Yes, its very easy to renaming, or reordering a few columns, no problem for me.

The point about reordering was that you did *not* need to do it...the importer doesn't care about the order of columns, just their names.

 Maybe a little problem for newbie users. 

Its a little bit harder to manage different kind of user data before first import to Sahana. 

I have imported tons of data into Sahana instances...it is always a complex process...a lot of this is normalising the import data to avoid duplicates *& ensure matching, especially Location names and Organisation names....another big area is when cells have a lot of data squeezed into it that needs to be moved across into other columns

Renaming columns is a tiny part of this overall process

 

some empty columns contains dash "-" but for sorting and merging is simply obsolete. 

Yes, the default represent for current.messages["NONE"] is "-"

That is super easy to change to "":

https://github.com/sahana/eden/blob/master/models/00_settings.py#L41

...the column  Max Aircraft in airport template contains  some outdate types of planes. Better use the user defined data about max pressure 

5700 kg / 0,7 MPa

or international code 

PCN 25/R/A/Y/T

..etc.

The template has no types in:

 

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[Fran Boon]

On 3 April 2017 at 17:03, Fran Boon <fr...@sahanafoundation.org> wrote:

...the column  Max Aircraft in airport template contains  some outdate types of planes. Better use the user defined data about max pressure 

5700 kg / 0,7 MPa

or international code 

PCN 25/R/A/Y/T

..etc.

The template has no types in:

(message sent early in error)

The module does have a list of options which are currently hardcoded:

https://github.com/sahana/eden/blob/master/modules/s3db/transport.py#L117

These come from the data used by the WFP (World Food programme) who are the UN lead agency for Logistics and hence information on airports in large humanitarian responses.

It is very easy to change this lookup list in your custom template to something completely different.

It would also be possible to modify the model in other directions...some termplates using some parts of the model & others using others.

In general, Sahana should be seen as a framework for building custom solutions rather than as an unmodifiable application.

Of course, some modifications will close certain doors in the future, such as sharing data between instances...if these may be requirements for you then it is worth spending more time up front on defining your problem statement & finding resources (either skills or money to buy skills) to work through them for you.

F

[J.P.]

Yes, understand, absolutely agree.

thank you for discuss my topic

Best regards :)

Jiri

Dne pondělí 3. dubna 2017 18:12:45 UTC+2 Fran Boon napsal(a):