Re: Bachelor's thesis: Sage to replace MATLAB

[dimpase]

On Monday, 15 October 2012 22:45:49 UTC+8, Mikko Moilanen wrote:

Hey everyone

I made a bachelor's thesis titled Sage to replace MATLAB. I am not touting about the greatness of my thesis but just want to inform you about the results:  my job is now to install and configure Sage server for my school and educate mathematics teachers to use it. With that surprising result I must encourage teachers and students alike to promote Sage and better me, which should not be too hard.

If I am not mistaken, an appropriate Estonian greeting in this case would be "Tere jõdu!" :–)

Well-done.

 

Also, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions about how to educate the mathematics teachers to the possibilities Sage can offer. They teach college level mathematical analysis. I would jump up and down of joy if my school would begin to use Sage.

(In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)

Sincerely

Mikko Moilanen

[kcrisman]

On Monday, October 15, 2012 10:45:49 AM UTC-4, Mikko Moilanen wrote:

Hey everyone

I made a bachelor's thesis titled Sage to replace MATLAB. I am not touting about the greatness of my thesis but just want to inform you about the results:  my job is now to install and configure Sage server for my school and educate mathematics teachers to use it. With that surprising result I must encourage teachers and students alike to promote Sage and better me, which should not be too hard.

Also, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions about how to educate the mathematics teachers to the possibilities Sage can offer. They teach college level mathematical analysis. I would jump up and down of joy if my school would begin to use Sage.

(In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)

Interesting, though unfortunately most of us won't have too many of that language group under our belts :)

I reply because I'm wondering whether you talked significantly about Octave in your thesis, possibly including using Octave through the notebook.  We have at one faculty member who has done that to some extent, and it would be interesting if this would be a partial step.  Of course, Octave doesn't have all the toolboxes etc., I suppose, that Sage would have equivalents for.

[David Joyner]

On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 10:45 AM, Mikko Moilanen <moi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey everyone
>
> I made a bachelor's thesis titled Sage to replace MATLAB. I am not touting
> about the greatness of my thesis but just want to inform you about the
> results: my job is now to install and configure Sage server for my school
> and educate mathematics teachers to use it. With that surprising result I
> must encourage teachers and students alike to promote Sage and better me,
> which should not be too hard.
>
> Also, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions about how to educate the
> mathematics teachers to the possibilities Sage can offer. They teach college
> level mathematical analysis. I would jump up and down of joy if my school
> would begin to use Sage.
>
> (In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for
> my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)
>

Perhaps this could be placed on the Sage publications page?
http://sagemath.org/library-publications.html


>
> Sincerely
> Mikko Moilanen
>
>
>
>
> --
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[Mikko Moilanen]

Hmm, I think that I barely mentioned that GNU Octave can be used through Sage. The reason for that is that the idea of suggesting something to be replaced with worse alternative is pretty hard to do. Say "you have that there, why not take this what is much worse instead?"

One thing what fascinated me and what is actually a great asset of Sage is that it tries not to be a MATLAB clone. So, all in all, I maybe barely mentioned that GNU Octave or even MATLAB can used through Sage. To the teacher and my tutor I mentioned it though. They were not much interested of that. Python interested them much more than Matlab coding.

That said, my original thesis years ago was about GNU Octave to replace Matlab. However, for what purpose would serve to do a thesis where Matlab is found to be much superior to the alternative? So I never did it xD  I made a thesis of Sage instead, which was interesting to say the least. You have done great job! I firmly believe Sage is superior to Matlab in higher education.

Thanks of the suggestion anyway, much appreciated and when I lecture the teachers I shall show them (briefly) that they can do things with Sage in the same way as they have done in Matlab.

[Mikko Moilanen]

Sure thing. I actually saw that you have already done it, and therefore my inner academic got huge kicks xD 

[Minh Nguyen]

Hi Mikko,

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 6:01 AM, David Joyner <wdjo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> (In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for
>> my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)

Thank you for letting us know of your thesis. I have added it to the
Sage publications list at

http://www.sagemath.org/library-publications.html

You can find your thesis under the section "Theses" as publication #25.

--
Regards,
Minh Van Nguyen
http://bit.ly/mvngu

[Gerald Smith]

Greetings!  (Read Finnish?  Surely you jest!  Even Hungarians who speak a distantly related language say Finnish is absolutely impenetrable even for them. You might provide a summary in Esperanto, which I know a fair number of Finns know.   The readers can paste the summary into Google Translate to get the result in their native language.  There is a well developed mathematician community in Esperanto that keeps the math vocabulary up to date.)  Anyway, I have definite plans for using Sage Math for high school teachers.  I am also using GeoGebra (another open source program, but easy and beautiful) to handle simpler and more traditional math concepts.  I also have an ambitious plan  for full featured classroom instruction on the internet.  I make use of the virtual world of Second Life (this is the only one that could be described as serious, all the others I have seen are basically silly in comparison.) Anyway, I have a school on Second Life on 18,000 sqr meters of hilltop land I rent overlooking Linden Village  where many of the employees of linden Labs have their in-world offices. (Anybody with the last name "Linden" in Second life is an employee of the company that owns and runs Second Life. They are treated with a great deaal of respect as they have god-like powers in-world.)  Anyway, I have 3 classroom towers with 27 classrooms total, a 120 seat amphitheater, and a media dome floating above the trees just a little above the highest buildings.  All this for about 50 euros rental a month. Each of the above mentioned items sits on its own media parcel and has an independent media system (5 in all) with all kinds of capabilities, including DVD movies, cable TV, Second life's native tv channels, You Tube videos, the internet,  and other things.  I have a personal classroom (10th floor in the building on the right)  and model classrooms set up in each building. items of educational interest are see up in the lobbies and the penthouses are conferences rooms of diverse sorts. In the model classrooms, I use the Bright Web Browser (a now free Second Life item) to show off Sage Math.  It can be easily set up for bookmarks which in this case could be Sage Math web pages or online math material, some of it animated.  I have a plain media browser screen that I set to Twiddla by default.  Twiddla is a audio/video internet conferencing syatem  that acts as a white board in Second life that acts exactly the way a white board does in real life but has many more additional features. It is easily accessible for reading and writing purposes by anyone in the virtual classroom. You write on it using your mouse pointer.  It is available free to casual users and any educators and will allow text, video and audio conferencing with individuals who are not in Second Life.  It interacts well with Geogebra and will show Geogebra screens in Second Life.  i have the media system screen set to videos from the marvelous and wonderful Khan Academy which has a vast archive of mathematical lectures free for the use of anyone.  A great starting point for a math unit!  The major issue with regard to showing internet media in Second Life is it will not run Java applets.  this means that you cannot show JMOL graphics directly in Second Life though all other SageMath stuff shows just fine. Likewise, you cannot show the interactive screens of Geogebra Tube, a large internet of Geogebra lessons and stuff available online (you can show still unanimated screen shots of both of these in Second Life though.)  This is far less of a problem than it sounds. Above every screen in Second Life capable of showing the internet is a gadget that when clicked on from within Second Life will immediately call up that identical web page inside your favorite browser.  Then you  can see JMOL graphics and GeoGebra lessons in full interactivity. This can also work well with Twiddla, as the write feature is lots faster if you click on the Twiddla screen and write it in your browser than if you do it directly in Second Life. Anything you write on the browser twiddla page immediately shows up on the Second Life Twiddla page and vice versa.  yOu can do all sorts of media stuff in fact if you wish.  At the back of the calssroom I have a special screen that is designed to show youTube presentations. This is designed for stuff you want to have more or less permanently.  You upload it to Second Life then install it under the Media tab of the blackboard when click on the EDIT feature. It is actually quite easy to do. Within the classroom is some space for the teacher's personal items and a number of cushions set up on the floor.  It is possible to install chairs or desks,  but cushions work better as nobody blocks anybody else's line of site. The teacher is expected to stand by whatever medua feature is in use and has no need to sit down. The teacher may also choose to walk around among the students and ask questions. It is possible to communicate by both text chat and voice chat in the Second Life classroom, either as the class as a whole, indidividually or in small groups.   The look and feel are remarkably like a real life classroom but you can do all sorts of things you cannot in real life or at least not easily, one is three dimesional modeling of geometric shapes using the Second Life build feature.  Everybody is present as an avatar, a 3D fully animated figure that can approximate how you appear in real life or be a complete fantasy. My avatar is MathBear who actually is a bear in academic robes and round rimmed brass specs and is my branded image for my educational project in Second Life, the Math Bear Education Initiative.  The ability to interact in a natural ways in a natural appearing 3D environment creates a very powerful sense of psychology presence and appeals to the students social instincts.  The endless possibilities for creativity in Second Life are also a strong appeal to the students.  I habve examined other internet teaching projects and schools and I have yet to find one that is particularly appealing. The worst just have ASCII characters ttyped on a plain white screen.  Both instructors and students resist being forced into these drab, uncrreative and poorly interactive educational environments.  myGreetings!  (Read Finnish?  Surely you jest!  Even Hungarians who speak a distantly related language say Finnish is absolutely impenetrable even for them. You might provide a summary in Esperanto, which I know a fair number of Finns know.   The readers can paste the summary into Google Translate to get the result in their native language.  There is a well developed mathematician community in Esperanto that keeps the math vocabulary up to date.)  Anyway, I have definite plans for using Sage Math for high school teachers.  I am also using GeoGebra (another open source program, but easy and beautiful) to handle simpler and more traditional math concepts.  I also have an ambitious plan  for full featured classroom instruction on the internet.  I make use of the virtual world of Second Life (this is the only one that could be described as serious, all the others I have seen are basically silly in comparison.) Anyway, I have a school on Second Life on 18,000 sqr meters of hilltop land I rent overlooking Linden Village  where many of the employees of linden Labs have their in-world offices. (Anybody with the last name "Linden" in Second life is an employee of the company that owns and runs Second Life. They are treated with a great deaal of respect as they have god-like powers in-world.)  Anyway, I have 3 classroom towers with 27 classrooms total, a 120 seat amphitheater, and a media dome floating above the trees just a little above the highest buildings.  All this for about 50 euros rental a month. Each of the above mentioned items sits on its own media parcel and has an independent media system (5 in all) with all kinds of capabilities, including DVD movies, cable TV, Second life's native tv channels, You Tube videos, the internet,  and other things.  I have a personal classroom (10th floor in the building on the right)  and model classrooms set up in each building. items of educational interest are see up in the lobbies and the penthouses are conferences rooms of diverse sorts. In the model classrooms, I use the Bright Web Browser (a now free Second Life item) to show off Sage Math.  It can be easily set up for bookmarks which in this case could be Sage Math web pages or online math material, some of it animated.  I have a plain media browser screen that I set to Twiddla by default.  Twiddla is a audio/video internet conferencing syatem  that acts as a white board in Second life that acts exactly the way a white board does in real life but has many more additional features. It is easily accessible for reading and writing purposes by anyone in the virtual classroom. You write on it using your mouse pointer.  It is available free to casual users and any educators and will allow text, video and audio conferencing with individuals who are not in Second Life.  It interacts well with Geogebra and will show Geogebra screens in Second Life.  i have the media system screen set to videos from the marvelous and wonderful Khan Academy which has a vast archive of mathematical lectures free for the use of anyone.  A great starting point for a math unit!  The major issue with regard to showing internet media in Second Life is it will not run Java applets.  this means that you cannot show JMOL graphics directly in Second Life though all other SageMath stuff shows just fine. Likewise, you cannot show the interactive screens of Geogebra Tube, a large internet of Geogebra lessons and stuff available online (you can show still unanimated screen shots of both of these in Second Life though.)  This is far less of a problem than it sounds. Above every screen in Second Life capable of showing the internet is a gadget that when clicked on from within Second Life will immediately call up that identical web page inside your favorite browser.  Then you  can see JMOL graphics and GeoGebra lessons in full interactivity. This can also work well with Twiddla, as the write feature is lots faster if you click on the Twiddla screen and write it in your browser than if you do it directly in Second Life. Anything you write on the browser twiddla page immediately shows up on the Second Life Twiddla page and vice versa.  yOu can do all sorts of media stuff in fact if you wish.  At the back of the calssroom I have a special screen that is designed to show youTube presentations. This is designed for stuff you want to have more or less permanently.  You upload it to Second Life then install it under the Media tab of the blackboard when click on the EDIT feature. It is actually quite easy to do. Within the classroom is some space for the teacher's personal items and a number of cushions set up on the floor.  It is possible to install chairs or desks,  but cushions work better as nobody blocks anybody else's line of site. The teacher is expected to stand by whatever medua feature is in use and has no need to sit down. The teacher may also choose to walk around among the students and ask questions. It is possible to communicate by both text chat and voice chat in the Second Life classroom, either as the class as a whole, indidividually or in small groups.   The look and feel are remarkably like a real life classroom but you can do all sorts of things you cannot in real life or at least not easily, one is three dimesional modeling of geometric shapes using the Second Life build feature.  Everybody is present as an avatar, a 3D fully animated figure that can approximate how you appear in real life or be a complete fantasy. My avatar is MathBear who actually is a bear in academic robes and round rimmed brass specs and is my branded image for my educational project in Second Life, the Math Bear Education Initiative.  The ability to interact in a natural ways in a natural appearing 3D environment creates a very powerful sense of psychological presence and appeals to the students social instincts.  The endless possibilities for creativity in Second Life are also a strong appeal to the students.  Young people do not find it boring!  I have examined other internet teaching projects and schools and I have yet to find one that is particularly appealing. The worst just have ASCII characters typed on a plain white screen.  Both instructors and students resist being forced into these drab, uncreative and poorly interactive educational environments.  My huge problem is trying to get teachers, especially high school teachers to come take a look at what I am doing in Second Life. They are technophobic and fearful, like they might lose their souls or something. There is a lot of educational activity in Second Life but hardly any teachers are taeching math.  I know of one professor who does so, but all he does is scan in his handwritten notes and show them in-world, making no use of the rich internet and virtual technology available.  What I need are teachers willing to come onto Seconond Life and if they are interested, I will train them in handling the necessary virtual technologies and provide them with a classroom, all for free.  Second Life itself is free,  I have a Sage Math server set up on the RackSpace Cloud which has been running stably for months. You can access it  at http://198.101.203.91:8000   I would love to get exchange worksheets with anyone, especially high school level stuff.  I also have a MOODLE server set up on FreeHostia that can handle attendance, grades, courses and all the typical administrative stuff for a school.  I also have set up the SLOODLE implementation of MOODLE for Second Life which includes a lot of educational goodies that you can register  to your mOODLE account and can do all sorts of useful educational things. You could for instance, set up a booth for enrolling students in your class or create a barrier that will only admit registered students into your class. In the lobby of the middle building I have set up a bunch of SLOODLE goodies for your perusal.  All I need are teachers willing to try something really new, extraordinary, and powerful.. You dont have to limit yourself to locals either, You could have students from all over the world operating out of their homes in your class and it will  feel like you are all in the room together in the flesh. Students whose English is weak can use translators to translate text chat into their native languages to aid comprehension. These translators work fairly well too.
Sigh! 

Isn't there anyone out there who is not hopelessly neophobic and technophobic? Who isnt completely welded to the past and fearful of embracing the future? When I try to  explain my ideas at educational conferences, people stare at me like I have 3 heads. Ifeel sort of like a john the Baptist, you know, a "vox clamantis in deserto"!

hopefully Yours,

Math Bear a.k.a. Jerry

P.S. You can easily download the Second Life program and install and run it free of charge.  But it takes a while to learn to navigate in virtual reality. After setting up a profile and giving you an avatar, they put you on Orientation Island.  Here are many exercises and tutorials to teach you how to function and navigate in Second Life. Don't shortchange these!  linden Labs estimates it takes about 4 1/2 hours to learn the basics of Second Life. If you do not go through this,  you will find yourself pretty helpless and probably give up  in frustration. Anyway. when you are confident you can get around, they send you to Help Island which offers additional tutorials and an awful lott of useful freebie items. I have been told it is a good idea to go to the library there and read through the big book they have, After that, you go to the MainLand which is where I have my school.  if you use the Search feature (try the "Content" button on the top of your screen) you can teleport directly to my school under "Math Bear Education Initiative". Look for this in "Places". It will include the teleport link.  To notify me, use Search again; this time set to "People" and search for MathBear Cyberschreiber. Click on the name then click on IM and send me a text message and even better, click on "Add Friend" and I will be aware of you within Second Life.  Feel free to explore the school and play with items. The elevators are especially fun but please return them to the ground floor when you are done.  Don't forget to fly up and check out the media dome!   ^,..,^

---

From: Mikko Moilanen <moi...@gmail.com>
To: sage...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:45 AM
Subject: [sage-edu] Bachelor's thesis: Sage to replace MATLAB

Hey everyone

I made a bachelor's thesis titled Sage to replace MATLAB. I am not touting about the greatness of my thesis but just want to inform you about the results:  my job is now to install and configure Sage server for my school and educate mathematics teachers to use it. With that surprising result I must encourage teachers and students alike to promote Sage and better me, which should not be too hard.

Also, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions about how to educate the mathematics teachers to the possibilities Sage can offer. They teach college level mathematical analysis. I would jump up and down of joy if my school would begin to use Sage.

(In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)

Sincerely

Mikko Moilanen

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nghuge problem is trying to get teachers, especially high school teachers to come take a look at what I am doi

---

From: Mikko Moilanen <moi...@gmail.com>
To: sage...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 9:45 AM
Subject: [sage-edu] Bachelor's thesis: Sage to replace MATLAB

Hey everyone

I made a bachelor's thesis titled Sage to replace MATLAB. I am not touting about the greatness of my thesis but just want to inform you about the results:  my job is now to install and configure Sage server for my school and educate mathematics teachers to use it. With that surprising result I must encourage teachers and students alike to promote Sage and better me, which should not be too hard.

Also, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions about how to educate the mathematics teachers to the possibilities Sage can offer. They teach college level mathematical analysis. I would jump up and down of joy if my school would begin to use Sage.

(In case anyone is interested and able to read Finnish, here is the link for my Thesis: http://publications.theseus.fi/handle/10024/48512.)

[Gerald Smith]

The silence on here thunders!

---

From: Gerald Smith <math...@yahoo.com>
To: "sage...@googlegroups.com" <sage...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: [sage-edu] Bachelor's thesis: Sage to replace MATLAB

[William Stein]

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Gerald Smith <math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The silence on here thunders!

I did read the entire thing you posted. I just didn't have any
comments, except for:


> ... " linden Labs estimates it takes about 4 1/2 hours to learn the basics of Second Life." ...

That seems like a very significant investment in time to use an
interface to "educational software". I was quite surprised to see
that. That's all.

-- William

--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

[Gerald Smith]

greetings Dr. Stein!  And thank you for commenting!  ^,..,^

A good point,  but the richness of the virtual enviroinment requires that you invest a significant amount of time to learn its many features on even a   basic level.   Still, the first time I got on Second Life  I did invest a significant amount of time doing the various erxercises on Orientation Island and by the time I got to the MainLand I could get around and manage the environment. Learning to master Second Life is pretty much identical to learning to master an online video game such as World of Warcraft, an environment which is fairly similar.   It may be a little scary for mature adults to do this but kids will take to it as naturaly as ducks to water.  They won't need extra motivation.  in practice, most people seem to spend as little time as possible on Orientation and Help Islands and immediately go to the MainLand.  Actually, both "islands" are archipelagoes of identical islands far out in the sea northeast of the Northern MainLand continent.  Once you leave the islands, you cannot go back though publically accessible copies can be reached.  I find this policy slightly schizoid on Linden Labs part.  Anywhay, most people show up on the MainLand ill-prepared. If they are willing to talk to people and make friends, they will get lots of willing help.  By clicking on somebody and bringing up their profile you can tell how long they have been active in Second Life.  Everybody is willing to make the extra effort to help out the total newbie (or "noob").  Most young people have no trouble socializing and are flexible and inquisitive anyway and usually quickly get up to speed.  Older people are more likely to be standoffish and may experience great difficulties and frustration and are likely to give up if they don't adequately pepare on Orientation and Help Islands.  I don't think you fully realize what a huge part of the whole learning experiece the Second Life environment is.  How long does it take for a  student to learn the in's and out's of a new school?  I don't think you will have any troiuble though, getting young people to do this as they will find it inherently fascinating, if video game sales figures arer any indication.   In my case, I was stand-offish and wandered around Second Life cluelessly for months  until I found my proper millieu and people took pity on me and started making friends and helping me out.  Since then, I have made quit a few really good friends on Second Life and have met a lot of them in real life with gratifying results.  On Second Life, you get to know somebody from the inside out so to speak and there are no surprises when you finally meet face-to-face. I mean you really know each other!  Second Life is a major and powerful online educational environment that eerily mimics the feel and interactivity of real life. The amount of time needed to be invested in it is a measure of it's seriousness and non-triviality.  Simplistic on-line learning environments can be learned much quicker but are far less interesting too, especially for the young.  For the most part, they do not do a good job teaching.  Teaching in Second Life is very similar to teaching in real life but you can do things you can't do in real life and at vastly lower expense than in real life.  it is also an intrinsically highly motivating enviromnment for young people.

Hmmmmmm........ I challenge you, Dr. Stein to come onto Second life and check it out for yourself .  From the pics I have seen of you, you don't seem very old and I think you can appreciate it without freaking out over the thought of virtual reality. After all, this is what the internet  will eventually evolve into;  you are experiencing a bit of the future now.  If you try this, just let me know!  You are welcome to set up a display in the lobby of the lobby of the right hand classroom tower at my school or I could fix up a classroom for you for your own use.   I am in a highly desirable centrally located environment for an educational institution and attractive, high quality parcels are available for rent right next to me.  I am not sure which university you work at but chances are they have something set up on Second Life already and would be glad to let you use their in-world facilities or create a display and demo for Sage Math.  Here in texas, some of the University of Texas Schools, Texas A&M, and Texas State Teacher's College (the one most active in Second life) have full sims and virtual schools set up. There are lots of educational institutions involved in one way or another on Second Life. Sage Math works perfectly in Second Life with the sole exception of interactive 3D JMOL graphics.  But you can work around even that easily by clicking on a gadget that opens whatever page you are looking at on the web as a page in your favorite browser. This trick also works with GeoGGebraTube which also requires a JAVA applet. Anyway, i must inform you that you can't possibly appreciate  how extraordinary Second Life really is without some direct experience.  Trying to come up with accurate impressions by imagination alone is an exercise in futility, like making bricks without straw...

I have a number of pics of my school.  I am also planning on making some Second Life videos (called "machinima") of  a  model class in one of the classrooms at my school.  I am a member of several educational groups on Secind Life and I have floated the idea of getting volunteers to be my model students in these and I have gotten positive responses.  Would anybody on here like to see any of these?  I can post pics on here and the machinima videos on YouTube,, when I get them done.

Sincerely,

Jerry a.k.a  Mathbear Cyberschreiber (on Second life)

---

From: William Stein <wst...@gmail.com>
To: sage...@googlegroups.com ily by clicking o
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [sage-edu] Sigh!

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 3:17 PM, Gerald Smith <math...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The silence on here thunders!

schools

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--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[kcrisman]

Hi Math Bear!

A good point,  but the richness of the virtual enviroinment requires that you invest a significant amount of time to learn its many features on even a   basic level.   Still, the first time I got on Second Life  I did invest a significant amount of time doing the various erxercises on Orientation Island and by the time I got to the MainLand I could get around and manage the environment. Learning to master Second Life is pretty much identical to learning to master an online video game such as World of Warcraft, an environment which is fairly similar.   It may be a little scary for mature adults to 

do this but kids will take to it as naturaly as ducks to water.  They won't need extra motivation.  in practice, most

That may be true if they want to play, but once it becomes a "teaching environment" I think you'll find that the ones who wouldn't already be doing stuff like WoW or SL will be ... less inspired, shall we say.  Along these lines, you may be interested in Keith Devlin's book, "Mathematics Education for a New Era: Video Games As a Medium for Learning" on this subject - I suspect you would resonate with a lot of what he says, though I think it would not work for all students, any more than current pedagogy does.

the extra effort to help out the total newbie (or "noob").  Most young people have no trouble socializing and are flexible and inquisitive anyway and usually quickly get up to speed.  Older people are more likely to be standoffish and may experience great difficulties and frustration and are likely to give up if they don't adequately pepare on Orientation and Help Islands.  I don't think you fully realize what a huge part of the whole learning experiece the Second Life environment is.  How long does it take for a  student to learn the in's and out's of a new school?  I don't

Right, but again this is for the *motivated* student.  Or faculty member.  One does have limited time.

One of the big shames about education is that one is often stuck in a local minimum with respect to (potentially useful or even ground-breaking) new ideas; the amount of time needed to not just get acquainted with Sage or IBL or Second Life or online grading systems or whatever, but also to become a truly excellent teacher in this new pedagogy (whichever it is) is often large enough that one would have to severely neglect one's current duties to do so.  I could totally imagine someone taking a sabbatical to learn how to do a whole course in SL, but for most people that is probably not the wisest use of their time unless they are truly passionate about it (and at the university level, unless they can make at least a small pedagogical article out of it - which you may find interesting for a journal like PRIMUS).   I have colleagues who will never use a computer in the classroom, not because it's not a good idea, but because they are extremely effective teachers who would likely suffer for many semesters until they grew accustomed to it.

However, don't stop updating us, either!  Perhaps with more paragraph breaks for readability, though :) There are lots of people who read these messages who never respond, but definitely read them nonetheless, and ideally we want someone *already using SL for teaching* (which there certainly are out there) who wants to use mathematics software in it to think of Sage, and to find these discussions; your experience will be extremely valuable for them.

 

most active in Second life) have full sims and virtual schools set up. There are lots of educational institutions involved in one way or another on Second Life. Sage Math works perfectly in Second Life with the sole exception of interactive 3D JMOL graphics.  But you can work around even that easily by clicking on a gadget that opens

By the way, see some recent posts on sage-notebook for HTML5 versions - like https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sage-notebook/kkkSIBDMpvs

- kcrisman

[William Stein]

+1 -- very nicely said!

>>
>> most active in Second life) have full sims and virtual schools set up.
>> There are lots of educational institutions involved in one way or another on
>> Second Life. Sage Math works perfectly in Second Life with the sole
>> exception of interactive 3D JMOL graphics. But you can work around even
>> that easily by clicking on a gadget that opens
>
>
> By the way, see some recent posts on sage-notebook for HTML5 versions - like
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/sage-notebook/kkkSIBDMpvs
>
> - kcrisman
>

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[Gerald Smith]

Hmmmmm...... Well, there is no way of knowing for sure unless you actually actually try it out!  But it is noteworthy that students have no trouble motivating themselves to take an interest in computer games and internet media technologies and these are by no means just the "gifted" students.  In my experience it has been something of a general phenomenon.  I think it is well worth a true and dubious to assume you know what the results will ber in advance.

Sorry for replyiing so late, i had health issues to deal with.

Cheers,

Math Bear

---

From: kcrisman <kcri...@gmail.com>
To: sage...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [sage-edu] Sigh!

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[Gerald Smith]

Ummm.... there is really only one way to find out, no?  Right now, I really want to reach out to secondary and community college math terachers and university level teachers teaching undergraduate level classes, Teachers who are out in the front lines so to speak and in a good position to see how students react to it.  I have heard from many sources that they generally do not really like online or computer based instruction and this  is due to unique features  of calssroom instruction that tend yo be missing in cyber education generally.  My approach is designed to restore these missing elements of classroom instruction and I predict it will be much more motivating for the students.
Anyway, I am planning on doing some videos of model classes and seeing how those go.
Cheers,
Math Bear

---

From: William Stein <wst...@gmail.com>
To: sage...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 10:06 PM
Subject: Re: [sage-edu] Sigh!

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--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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