Optional spkg databases scheduled for deletion

[Volker Braun]

There are a number of optional databases without or with incomplete SPKG.txt. If nobody knows the copyright status of the following optional spkgs then they will have to be deleted:

cunningham_tables

database_jones_numfield

database_kohel

database_odlyzko_zeta

database_sloane_oeis

database_stein_watkins_mini.p0

Also, if nobody steps up to write a SPKG.txt file (http://www.sagemath.org/doc/developer/producing_spkgs.html#the-file-spkg-txt) then they will have to be moved to experimental IMHO.

The ticket for making the optional spkgs ready for the sage-git directory layout is here: http://trac.sagemath.org/14962. Optional spkgs can have their build script moved into the git repo, but you can also use the old workflow for the spkg. But the above spkgs don't work with the new directory layout and need some changes for the new paths. I can fix the paths if you don't want to, but I can't invent a copyright status...

[David Joyner]

On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 5:05 PM, Volker Braun <vbrau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are a number of optional databases without or with incomplete
> SPKG.txt. If nobody knows the copyright status of the following optional
> spkgs then they will have to be deleted:
>
> cunningham_tables
> database_jones_numfield
> database_kohel
> database_odlyzko_zeta
> database_sloane_oeis

Info on the OEIS license is here:
http://oeis.org/wiki/User:N._J._A._Sloane/Discussion_of_Licenses

> database_stein_watkins_mini.p0
>
> Also, if nobody steps up to write a SPKG.txt file
> (http://www.sagemath.org/doc/developer/producing_spkgs.html#the-file-spkg-txt)
> then they will have to be moved to experimental IMHO.
>
> The ticket for making the optional spkgs ready for the sage-git directory
> layout is here: http://trac.sagemath.org/14962. Optional spkgs can have
> their build script moved into the git repo, but you can also use the old
> workflow for the spkg. But the above spkgs don't work with the new directory
> layout and need some changes for the new paths. I can fix the paths if you
> don't want to, but I can't invent a copyright status...
>
>
>

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[Jason Grout]

On 10/19/13 4:19 PM, David Joyner wrote:
> Info on the OEIS license is here:
> http://oeis.org/wiki/User:N._J._A._Sloane/Discussion_of_Licenses

The punch line seems to be at the very bottom of the page:

Resolution, February 2011

After two months of discussion (not shown here), the OEIS Foundation has
adopted the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 license
(CC-BY-NC) as its End-User License Agreement. The Contributor's License
Agreement will remain unchanged. Neil Sloane President, OEIS Foundation Inc

From http://oeis.org/wiki/The_OEIS_End-User_License_Agreement, we get:

The OEIS is made available under the Creative Commons Attribution
Non-Commercial 3.0 license.
To satisfy the attribution requirements of that license (section 4(c)),
attributions should credit The Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences
and provide a URL to the main page http://oeis.org/ or to a specific
sequence (e.g. http://oeis.org/A000108).

Thanks,

Jason

[kcrisman]

First, as for the Odlyzko spkg, http://www.sagemath.org/doc/reference/databases/sage/databases/odlyzko.html also would have to be changed... but http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/zeta_tables/ seems to indicate they are almost free for the taking.  Since Prof. Odlyzko seems to keep his website up to date and refers to William's books as references for a current class, I'm cc:ing him in the hopes that he'll be able to clarify the copyright status soon enough to satisfy you :-)  

Prof. Odlyzko, is there any copyright status we could put on your zeta function database to keep it a legitimate part of Sage?  It is obviously extremely useful to have as (an optional) part of this open source software.

database_stein_watkins_mini.p0

Wouldn't this have the same status as the "huge" database http://www.sagemath.org/doc/reference/databases/sage/databases/stein_watkins.html ?  Presumably some random (for certain values of random) person affiliated with Sage should know the copyright status of this one... just sayin'.

- kcrisman 

[William Stein]

I own the "copyright" on the stein-watkins tables, and definitely
anybody can use them however they want. They're just raw data.
Somebody could recompute exactly the same information in a year if
they wanted to.

-- William

> - kcrisman

>
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--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

[John Cremona]

That sounds like a challenge! I was looking into the (large) s-w
database a couple of days ago and had been thinking of writing
spkg.txt files for both as well as upgrading the spkg-install scripts.
For the large db the current install script fails on systems for
which "mv -rv" is not allowed (e.g. linux), and even replacing it with
"mv -v" fails if you already have installed the mini version. Now of
which would be hard to fix.

John

[kcrisman]

Prof. Odlyzko, is there any copyright status we could put on your zeta function database to keep it a legitimate part of Sage?  It is obviously extremely useful to have as (an optional) part of this open source software.

Andrew replied but isn't on sage-devel so it probably was not allowed to go through, so I'm posting his answer here.  Sounds great, thanks for the quick reply!

+++

Hmm, I certainly did put up those files to make them accessible,
and am happy to see them be incorporated into Sage.  I have been
meaning to dig into the various CC licenses, and figure out which
ones I should put up on my web site, but have simply not gotten
around to it.  In the meantime, you have my blessing to put any
notice you think is appropriate (say "by permission of Andrew
Odlyzko").

Best regards,
Andrew

 

[Ralf Stephan]

On Saturday, October 19, 2013 11:05:44 PM UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:

There are a number of optional databases without or with incomplete SPKG.txt. If nobody knows the copyright status of the following optional spkgs then they will have to be deleted:

database_sloane_oeis

A pity you didn't remove it, see http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/15779

A similar ticket that can be closed: http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/14520

Ralf Stephan 

[Harald Schilly]

On Monday, October 21, 2013 2:49:00 AM UTC+2, kcrisman wrote:

I have been
meaning to dig into the various CC licenses, and figure out which

ones I should put up on my web site, ..

The best one, in my eyes, for this kind of application is CC0
http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

I don't know the discussion about the OEIS, but the non-commercial part is really a bad idea. Especially since it is already more or less decided, that it will be dropped in the future because of all the problems. That kind of restriction opens up all sorts of legal pitfalls!
There are many pages about this problem, just a quick search gave this:
http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/9/11/16331/0655

Harald

[Volker Braun]

We are not linking to the database (doesn't even make sense). CC BY and CC BY-SA is "good for educational works" according to the FSF. They are incompatible with the GPL when applied to software and documentation, but that is clearly not the case here.

I don't think Andrew's answer can be construed as CC0 (=public domain in this case).

[William Stein]

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Harald Schilly
<harald....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Monday, October 21, 2013 2:49:00 AM UTC+2, kcrisman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been
>>> meaning to dig into the various CC licenses, and figure out which
>>> ones I should put up on my web site, ..
>
>
>
> The best one, in my eyes, for this kind of application is CC0
> http://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/
>
> I don't know the discussion about the OEIS, but the non-commercial part is
> really a bad idea. Especially since it is already more or less decided, that

When OEIS was founded they decided that it was banned to re-distribute
more than "5%" (I think) of the sequences in a third-party database,
such as are. They were trying to avoid the possibility of Mathematica
(say) including OEIS. I personally argued strongly to their board
that they should allow redistribution of 100%, and as a result they
do.

william

> it will be dropped in the future because of all the problems. That kind of
> restriction opens up all sorts of legal pitfalls!
> There are many pages about this problem, just a quick search gave this:
> http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/9/11/16331/0655
>
> Harald
>

[William Stein]

Hi,

This is an official statement from Odlyzko giving us permission to
distribute any data on his webpage with Sage.

William


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Andrew Odlyzko <odl...@umn.edu>
Date: Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [sage-devel] Re: Optional spkg databases scheduled for deletion
To: wst...@gmail.com


William,

Feel free to include the data from my home page in SAGE and distribute it.

Best regards,
Andrew

P.S. I was just going through my email backlog, and saw several messages
that I was copied on, which did not provide me with the full context of
the discussion.

P.P.S. This is going just to you, since I can't send to the list as a
whole.