Releases

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 19, 2018, 5:34:16 PM2/19/18
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Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto. He has 3d printed a couple.

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


--

Rob

Robert Skinner

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Feb 19, 2018, 6:14:09 PM2/19/18
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This manual is only a few pages long (with lots of pictures), and illustrates all of the ways that you can misroute a weak link in a barrel release.   Check it out.   Might save your skin ...

http://www.getoffrelease.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Get-Off-Instructions.pdf

Rob

Ron Wolff

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Feb 19, 2018, 6:17:14 PM2/19/18
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Rochester has a strong Tool and Die history, I have friends of the family still working in the industry, let me know if I can make introductions.

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Skinner
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:34 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:14814] Releases

Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto He has 3d printed a couple.

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


--

Rob

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 19, 2018, 6:22:16 PM2/19/18
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Pretty sure Nick is a tool and die maker or something similar ...
We should get together and make some of these though...
Does anyone have a good source for D and Triangle rings ?

Inline image 1


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Rochester has a strong Tool and Die history, I have friends of the family still working in the industry, let me know if I can make introductions.


Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:34 PM
To: rochesterareaflyers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:14814] Releases

Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto He has 3d printed a couple.

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


--

Rob

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Ron Wolff

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Feb 19, 2018, 9:28:12 PM2/19/18
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This site has every thing in the picture. Just need a tool to crimp the eyeloops.
 
I'm up for it though. I found most of this in lowes however the crimp end is diffferent, too different ffrom standard hang glider fasteners that I would pass on them in lieu of a nico properly pressed. Bet Home depot has a press for rent? Then again its a sizing thing.
 
Ohh see the link below.
 
 
 
I get the D rings , they attach to the harness, the quick link attached to the weeklink, why two linkives? Are the linkives on bungie's? Anyway I found a site where we can get heat shrink tubing to cover the crimp ends,,,again its a size thing. I would really like to get together and brain storm the proper solution rather than leap out and get the wrong parts or parts that are not sized properly.
 

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Skinner
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 6:22 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RAF:14817] Releases




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Nick Jones

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Feb 19, 2018, 9:47:22 PM2/19/18
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Make sure you use tin plated copper nicos on stainless cable and zinc plated on galvanized cable. Stay away from the aluminum ones, only good for wash lines. You likely know already but I just wanted to make sure.

Nick Jones

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com <rochester...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:27:37 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [RAF:14819] Releases
 

Ron Wolff

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Feb 19, 2018, 9:56:07 PM2/19/18
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Thanks Nick, I didn't know that. Do you think 3/16" 7 strand SS cable is the right size?

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:34 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:14814] Releases

Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto He has 3d printed a couple.

9:37AM

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

5:30PM

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


--

Rob

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Moritz Wagner

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Feb 19, 2018, 10:07:46 PM2/19/18
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Ron and Rob,
I am ordering some cable, nicos, and thimbles for the new side wires. Let me know what you need and I will put it in the same order.
Cheers,
Moritz

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:55 PM, Ron Wolff <viawo...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks Nick, I didn't know that. Do you think 3/16" 7 strand SS cable is the right size?
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018, 9:47 PM Nick Jones <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:
Make sure you use tin plated copper nicos on stainless cable and zinc plated on galvanized cable. Stay away from the aluminum ones, only good for wash lines. You likely know already but I just wanted to make sure.

Nick Jones


Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:27:37 PM

Subject: RE: [RAF:14819] Releases
This site has every thing in the picture. Just need a tool to crimp the eyeloops.
 
I'm up for it though. I found most of this in lowes however the crimp end is diffferent, too different ffrom standard hang glider fasteners that I would pass on them in lieu of a nico properly pressed. Bet Home depot has a press for rent? Then again its a sizing thing.
 
Ohh see the link below.
 
 
 
I get the D rings , they attach to the harness, the quick link attached to the weeklink, why two linkives? Are the linkives on bungie's? Anyway I found a site where we can get heat shrink tubing to cover the crimp ends,,,again its a size thing. I would really like to get together and brain storm the proper solution rather than leap out and get the wrong parts or parts that are not sized properly.
 


Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 6:22 PM

Subject: Re: [RAF:14817] Releases
Pretty sure Nick is a tool and die maker or something similar ...
We should get together and make some of these though...
Does anyone have a good source for D and Triangle rings ?

Inline image 1

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Rochester has a strong Tool and Die history, I have friends of the family still working in the industry, let me know if I can make introductions.


Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:34 PM
To: rochesterareaflyers@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:14814] Releases

Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto He has 3d printed a couple.

9:37AM

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

5:30PM

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


--

Rob

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 19, 2018, 10:54:14 PM2/19/18
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Just to be clear ...

We won't be using this linkknife type of release for our first tows.
There are two proven releases that local pilots ( Rick, Marty, Moritz, Jim, Tim, Myself ) have intimate knowledge of.
Aerotow releases and Koch type releases.
We have to standardize on something that everyone knows in order to be safe.
I've had stern warnings from folks who have been doing this for years and know people who are dead or in wheel chairs from doing the wrong thing.
It's not worth jeopardizing safety to be inconvenienced, or to save a few hundred bucks.

If you don't have lower loops (just below your armpits), and you don't want to sew loops onto your harness, 
you'll need an aerotow (AT) release, and a secondary barrel release, as well as a 3' and 6' bridle.
This will get you up a few hundred feet, which is plenty high enough to practice patterns and landings.
Lots of people have these and you can probably borrow one, but if you want your own, these are your choices:

  - GetOff Primary - http://www.getoffrelease.com/ - $100
  - Bridle - ( You need a 3' and a 6' ) -  Get a fid and make your own out of dynema or get these http://ozreport.com/goodies.php

If you have loops just below your armpits, you'll probably want to use a Koch release.
All you need for this setup is a set of tow loops under your armpits and some oval screwgate links to bolt the release to your harness loops.
Jim has two double Koch releases and I have a single, and you are welcome to use any of them.
Nick Jones is working on a batch of these releases, which will probably be available in a few months for ~$200.
In the meantime, Jim and I are happy to share.
Jim's releases will allow you to tow over as well as under the bar, which can put you as high as 2/3 the tow rope length.
Mine is just a single, but it's simple, easy to use, and just about foolproof.

While you are at it, get a hook knife or two.
BlueSky has some nice one's for $20.
I took my harness out at the First Aid class and realized that my hook knife was in my other harness, so I've got another one on the way.




On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
This site has every thing in the picture. Just need a tool to crimp the eyeloops.
 
I'm up for it though. I found most of this in lowes however the crimp end is diffferent, too different ffrom standard hang glider fasteners that I would pass on them in lieu of a nico properly pressed. Bet Home depot has a press for rent? Then again its a sizing thing.
 
Ohh see the link below.
 
 
 
I get the D rings , they attach to the harness, the quick link attached to the weeklink, why two linkives? Are the linkives on bungie's? Anyway I found a site where we can get heat shrink tubing to cover the crimp ends,,,again its a size thing. I would really like to get together and brain storm the proper solution rather than leap out and get the wrong parts or parts that are not sized properly.
 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 6:22 PM
To: rochesterareaflyers@googlegroups.com

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Nick Jones

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Feb 20, 2018, 7:10:13 AM2/20/18
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3/32 1X7 strand has a breaking strength of 900lb, 7X7 is more flexible and 900lb. That's a very common HG nose wire - you can recycle.

3/16 is way too thick and breaks at 3700lb.

Nick Jones

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com <rochester...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Ron Wolff <viawo...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 9:55:51 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RAF:14821] Releases
 

Robert Skinner

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Feb 20, 2018, 9:45:14 AM2/20/18
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Ron,

The two link knives are to cut the weaklink on the line going over the bar, and the one under the bar.
If you get into trouble, you pull both at once and are free of the winch.

Rob

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
This site has every thing in the picture. Just need a tool to crimp the eyeloops.
 
I'm up for it though. I found most of this in lowes however the crimp end is diffferent, too different ffrom standard hang glider fasteners that I would pass on them in lieu of a nico properly pressed. Bet Home depot has a press for rent? Then again its a sizing thing.
 
Ohh see the link below.
 
 
 
I get the D rings , they attach to the harness, the quick link attached to the weeklink, why two linkives? Are the linkives on bungie's? Anyway I found a site where we can get heat shrink tubing to cover the crimp ends,,,again its a size thing. I would really like to get together and brain storm the proper solution rather than leap out and get the wrong parts or parts that are not sized properly.
 

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 6:22 PM
To: rochesterareaflyers@googlegroups.com

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Norm Seelbinder

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Feb 20, 2018, 11:39:16 AM2/20/18
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There's an inexpensive swaging tool available from Aircraft Spruce. 
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:34 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:14814] Releases

Mark / Nick think that they are getting close to being able to start cranking out 2 stage releases.

Nick's release is coming along nicely. He is just trying to find time to mill the first proto He has 3d printed a couple.

9:37AM

Rob
Does he have a ballpark on what they will cost?

5:30PM

Mark Dowsett
we haven't talked about it. If I were to bet, I'd say around $200cdn
Seen by Mark Dowsett at 5:30pm
Rob
That should be doable ...


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Robert Skinner

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Feb 20, 2018, 12:00:11 PM2/20/18
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Nick,

Good to know ..
No one here has aircraft expertise.
What should we be looking for AFA number of strands in the stainless cable  ?

Thanks!

Rob


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Nick Jones

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Feb 20, 2018, 1:06:29 PM2/20/18
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7x7 (7 bundles of 7 strands) is typically what's used on HG - flexible but rough so plastic coated. Some gliders use 1X19 (1 bundle of 19 strands) uncoated (U2 and T2) for less drag but less flexible.

Nick Jones

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com <rochester...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Skinner <robertg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 11:59:29 AM
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Subject: Re: [RAF:14831] Releases
 

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 20, 2018, 1:25:39 PM2/20/18
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My U2 had 1x19 uncoated, and they use 2 NiCo's at each end.
Is that typical or do you think someone made their own wires for it ?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:06 PM, Nick Jones <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:
7x7 (7 bundles of 7 strands) is typically what's used on HG - flexible but rough so plastic coated. Some gliders use 1X19 (1 bundle of 19 strands) uncoated (U2 and T2) for less drag but less flexible.

Nick Jones


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Nick Jones

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Feb 20, 2018, 3:20:03 PM2/20/18
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That's standard, I think the 1x19 is a little less grippy - so 2 Nico's.

Nick Jones

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Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:24:57 PM
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Subject: Re: [RAF:14833] Releases
 

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 20, 2018, 3:21:31 PM2/20/18
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Aaah .   Do you know what the strength on that is?

On Feb 20, 2018 3:20 PM, "Nick Jones" <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:
That's standard, I think the 1x19 is a little less grippy - so 2 Nico's.

Nick Jones

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:24:57 PM

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Nick Jones

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Feb 20, 2018, 6:11:49 PM2/20/18
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Note the working load is a small fraction of the breaking strength. But this shows that the 1x19 is actually a little stronger but it's less flexible than the 7x7 - more prone to kinks.

Nick Jones

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Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:21:28 PM
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Subject: Re: [RAF:14835] Releases
 

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 20, 2018, 8:04:33 PM2/20/18
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Those numbers look a LOT better ...
I thought the break strengths were down around 500 pounds.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Nick Jones <nickin...@gmail.com> wrote:
Note the working load is a small fraction of the breaking strength. But this shows that the 1x19 is actually a little stronger but it's less flexible than the 7x7 - more prone to kinks.

Nick Jones

Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:21:28 PM

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Moritz Wagner

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Feb 20, 2018, 10:33:27 PM2/20/18
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This is an interesting thread I came across a couple days ago regarding Nicos, double Nicos, cable strength old vs. new, etc.
Moritz

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Robert Skinner

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Feb 21, 2018, 9:13:16 AM2/21/18
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Moritz, I missed your comment about ordering cable, NiCo's, etc.
I just picked up a pair of crimping pliers at Home Depot yesterday.
The kind that look like bolt cutters.
They weren't expensive.
Shipping was a killer on the one's from Aircraft Spruce.
If you haven't ordered yet, and could grab another dozen NiCo's and eyelets, that would make 4 releases.
We should be able to use old wires since the forces will be < 100 pounds.
Folks can get their own triangles, ovals, and link knives, and have a working dual stage release for $50.
Once Nick's Koch releases become available we could transition to those.

Can someone who knows what they are talking about comment on the virtues of using 2 NiCo's instead of 1 on flying wires .
Maybe it's my rock climbing thinking kicking in, but aren't 2 pieces generally better than 1 ?
Maybe some degradation in cable strength from 2 crimps, but isn't that better than 1 bad crimp failing ?




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Robert Skinner

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Feb 21, 2018, 10:05:52 AM2/21/18
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I think this says it all ...

Inline image 1

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Marty Hughes <hughe...@aol.com> wrote:
Moritz sent this. The link addresses two Nicks. If thinking old wire sections could be used, the old gliders in my yard have plenty.
 
 
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Moritz Wagner

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Feb 21, 2018, 1:40:23 PM2/21/18
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I have enough hardware on order to make up your releases as well.
Cheers,
Moritz

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Thomas, Christopher

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Feb 21, 2018, 1:49:18 PM2/21/18
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Would you please cover mine, as well.  I’m planning on getting back out.  I have my harness hanging from the I-beam in the basement and have been working on getting comfortable in it.  Thanks


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Robert Skinner

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Feb 21, 2018, 6:22:17 PM2/21/18
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Great ...
Thanks Moritz.

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Ron Wolff

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Feb 21, 2018, 6:57:42 PM2/21/18
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ok Igues that said it... double mine all the way!!!

From: rochester...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Moritz Wagner
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 10:33 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RAF:14852] Releases

From: rochester..@googlegroups.com [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Skinner

Sent: Monday, February 19, 2018 6:22 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RAF:14817] Releases
Pretty sure Nick is a tool and die maker or something similar ...
We should get together and make some of these though...
Does anyone have a good source for D and Triangle rings ?

Inline image 1
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Ron Wolff <rwo...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Rochester has a strong Tool and Die history, I have friends of the family still working in the industry, let me know if I can make introductions.
From: rochester..@googlegroups.com [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Skinner
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