WCW Bash at the Beach
Chewbacca
Since Bob has expressed an opinion probably closest to mine, I'll
add my comments to his.
>1. TV Title: Regal vs. Badd
>
>Badd has some very nice looking moves, but his matches don't flow
>very well. Regal's matches flow, but just too slowly. Together,
>they worked a good, if not spectacular, match that ended with
>Regal cheating his way to victory again.
I like Regal's style, and I too wish he would pick up the pace.
Badd's matches don't flow cause he acts too "faggy", IMO.
##seinfeld mode on##
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
##seinfeld mode off##
I thought it was a pretty solid match. ***
I'm not looking forward to the Inoki/Regal match, but the
set-up was OK.
>2. Vader vs. Guardian Angel
>
>This was a decent brawl. The action was probably better than it
>was in their Chicago match, but it didn't go as long, and the ending
>was very lame. After being taught for years that "the ref can't
>call what he doesn't see", which has allowed some ridiculous situations
>to go unpunished, Angel gets disqualified for holding a night stick
>he took from Vader, even though he never used it.
It wasn't as good as their previous match, but I guess it's too much
to ask that Vader hits the Vadersault twice in a row. After thinking
about it, I give it ***1/4
I didn't mind the screwjob here cause the Boss^H^H^H^HAngel got
away with his nightstick beatings for years.
>3. Buck/Funk vs. Dustin/Anderson
>
>I enjoyed this quite a bit. Anderson was in for a while, then Rhodes
>came in and fell prety to Buck and Funk's double-teaming. After
>mounting a great comeback in the heel's corner, he tagged in AA.
I enjoyed it too. I can always get into a good Rhodes shit kicking.
I was expecting an appearance by the Big Dust and was happily
surprised that he didn't show. I gave it ***1/4 (not for the great
work, cuase there really wasn't any, but for the shit kicking Rhodes
took and Arn's turn)
It looks like they're doing a variation of the Rhodes-breaks-his-ankle-
and-gets-revenge-in-a-cage angle. This time with Dustin getting the
arm broken, and taking on Buck/Funk/Arn/Meng-mang in the War Games.
>At this point, we got some horribly sloppy camera work. Despite the
>fact that I think it was due to incompetence and not good planning,
>it actually worked out well. Right as Dustin tagged Arn, the camera
>panned to show the crowd cheering for the hot tag. Meanwhile, the
>announcers start going nuts, and they switch back to the ring, where
>Dustin is laid out on the mat. Arn drags Funk onto Rhodes, and it's
>all over. Happily, WCW showed the reply of Arn DDT'ing Rhodes.
Herb and I raised a fuss about missing the DDT. Are the camera men
let in on what's going on booking-wise, or are they totally clued?
>There was some great action in this match, and I thought the ending
>was well done, especially since Flair and Arn are buddies and Flair
>has been a heel for quite some time. Unfortunately, the leaked lineup
>of future WCW cards made Arn's turn no surprise.
I'm happy that they kept Arn's turn from happening immediately after
Flair's. It made him look less like Flair's lapdog and more like his
own man. Course, none of that matters when he promised to be the old
Arn. ;-)
>Oh, Dustin also had a great move when he was thrown out of the ring
>and he went flying down the metal stairs at a frightening speed.
Raising the requisite "Ow!" from me. Course for the rest of the card
everyone tried to copy him by doing their own version of the stair bump.
(Aside: Why didn't they use the ramp/runway? This is the first time
I can remember them not using it)
>4. Austin vs. Steamboat
>
>This match moved at a very quick pace. After a lot of hot action,
>they teased an Austin DQ. Steamboat begged the ref to allow the
>match to continue, which seemed to foreshadow a title change, but
>then out of nowhere Austin reversed a cross-body block and pinned
>Steamboat, with a little help from the ropes.
This was the best match on the card. Hey, Steamer even waited a whole
2 minutes before throwing his first armdrag, and actually limited
himself to 3 or 4 of them for the whole match. Herb already made
this comment, but after walking the ropes and choking Austin, he
said "All we need now is a tombstone piledriver to confirm that
Steamboat is really the Undertaker." And tombstone we got. QED.
"That explains all those Undertaker sightings. They were Steamboat
sightings!" Heenan's comment on the two guys reversing the tomb-
stone several times: "It looks like a carnival ride." Too funny.
Rating: **** (maybe an extra 1/4, I'm not sure)
>He grabbed one of Steamboats limp arms, flapped it up and down at
>the camera, and yelled, "Hi, everybody!" I almost died laughing.
Both Herb and I lost it here! ;-)
>5. Cactus/Sullivan vs. Roma/Orndorff
>
>This match was embarrassing. Evad Meltzer said in the last Observer
>that WCW has decided to tone down the extreme violence that has marked
>some of their recent PPV matches, so that probably killed any chance
>of Cactus and Orndorff duplicating some of their great brawling from
>SuperBrawl III. I don't care for Roma and Orndorff as a team.
>Sullivan doesn't do much for me in the ring. The match was fought
>with normal rules. Cactus and Sullivan were booked to lose. Yes,
>it was as bad as it sounds.
I wasn't as hard on this match as you. Yes, it had the potential for
being *way* better, and Yes, Cactus jobbed again. But I don't mind
Pretty Wonderful. They do a little too much preening in the ring, but
they're not that bad. Certainly better than the Sullivans. If the
Nasty's turn is true, then a PW/NB series could be quite good _as
long_as_they're_allowed_to_show_their_stuff_
Rating: I think ***
>6. WCW World Championship: Flair vs. Hogan
>
>Yes, it was the hardcores' worst nightmare come true...
>
>...but I liked it! Hogan had bulked up a little for this match (which
I could admit to liking the pacing/story of the match, but little
else.
>I've already read reports about how Hogan did nothing but his standard
>set of moves. That is not true. He pulled out several moves that
>I have never seen him do before, and they looked surprisingly good.
These were all moves that knew years ago, but somehow forgot when he
arrived in VinceLand. After the drop toehold, Herb commented that
Hogan putting on his working boots for the match (I'll assume he was
kidding). I'm sorry, but Hogan has never owned a pair of working boots
in his life.
(Although he did teach that armbar/leg takedown to Steamboat those
many moons ago)
>I did not get the impression that Flair was carrying him, as
>others have posted.
Maybe not, but certainly this was as good as you're gonna get with
Hogan. He pulled out all the stops, and still didn't convince me to
give him more than ***. The only matches of his that were better were
against Stan Hansen and Mutoh (not shown to North American fans), and
the WM6 match (but that was for the heat they built, the match stunk)
>I even read a complaint about how many times he "hulked up". Excuse
>me, but that is a *bad* thing? I don't think so. The problem I have
>always had with the "hulking up" is it is too cartoonish because it
>made Hogan invincible. In this match, it was drastically toned down,
>so much that it was no more powerful than the typical "adrenaline
>rush" that most face wrestlers get. Hogan hulked up several times
>and had his momentum stopped by Flair. I found that much more realistic
>and satisfying than knowing that as soon as he hulked up the match
>was over.
I has a problem with the hulking up. I thought 3 times is too much.
Even calling them regular adrenaline rushes, most wrestlers don't
get three of them during one match. And not only were we treated to
the same bullshit Hogan ending, but we got to see it *twice* in this
match (hulk up punch punch punch boot to the face legdrop)
>The match was an entertaining rendition of the classic WWF/Hogan
>formula: It got out of control, there was quite a bit of cheating,
>but the ref let it go, and in the end Hulkamania prevailed.
I will admit that they teased the ending quite good. Several times
in fact. That facet of the match was what I gave my **3/4 or *** (I
haven't decided yet) for. It was a well constructed match, story-wise.
Too bad the wrestling couldn't have been better. Not stupendous or
amazing, just better.
My rating for the whole card: Thumbs in the middle (slightly up).
>I was starting to agree that this would be a disaster, but now I don't
>know. I read Meltzer's pessimism in the last Observer and couldn't
>help but notice that he ignored the fact that they had to turn *2,000*
>people away from the last Center Stage taping because Hogan was there.
>No other WCW wrestlers could have appeared on mainstream shows like
>Hogan did. I've seen newspaper articles. The Orlando Arena was
>packed, and I don't think WCW could have *paid* 15,000 people to attend
>some of their previous PPVs. The people in the Orlando Arena were
>going nuts for Hogan, and the crowd was better than any WCW crowd in
>years. Maybe there will be a rebirth of Hulkamania after all...
Maybe it was a good decision to bring him in, financially, but
we'll see how it turns out over the long haul. Course if Hogan
does start bringing in the crowds, WCW has to do something drastic
(or at least something not-stupid) to keep them. Jerk^H^H^H^HBischoff
can't count on Vince getting busted.
>It certainly will be interesting when the buy rate numbers start
>coming in.
I look forward to seeing them, too.
C.
--
Email to: mdme...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Flame away, I'm Superman!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other night I was lying in bed, looking up at the stars, and I wondered,
"Where the fuck is my ROOF ?!?"
Bob Rusbasan
I still can't believe that they switched Badd in for Sting because
of a planned angle. The fact that Sting then didn't show up at all,
when he had no real injury, is possibly really bad news for WCW.
Badd has some very nice looking moves, but his matches don't flow
very well. Regal's matches flow, but just too slowly. Together,
they worked a good, if not spectacular, match that ended with
Regal cheating his way to victory again.
Since Badd holds some kind of record for most title matches without
ever winning a title, the result of this match was never in question,
so that made it a little less enjoyable.
2. Vader vs. Guardian Angel
This was a decent brawl. The action was probably better than it
was in their Chicago match, but it didn't go as long, and the ending
was very lame. After being taught for years that "the ref can't
call what he doesn't see", which has allowed some ridiculous situations
to go unpunished, Angel gets disqualified for holding a night stick
he took from Vader, even though he never used it.
It was funny to watch Vader and Race laugh about it afterwards, though...
3. Buck/Funk vs. Dustin/Anderson
I enjoyed this quite a bit. Anderson was in for a while, then Rhodes
came in and fell prety to Buck and Funk's double-teaming. After
mounting a great comeback in the heel's corner, he tagged in AA.
At this point, we got some horribly sloppy camera work. Despite the
fact that I think it was due to incompetence and not good planning,
it actually worked out well. Right as Dustin tagged Arn, the camera
panned to show the crowd cheering for the hot tag. Meanwhile, the
announcers start going nuts, and they switch back to the ring, where
Dustin is laid out on the mat. Arn drags Funk onto Rhodes, and it's
all over. Happily, WCW showed the reply of Arn DDT'ing Rhodes.
There was some great action in this match, and I thought the ending
was well done, especially since Flair and Arn are buddies and Flair
has been a heel for quite some time. Unfortunately, the leaked lineup
of future WCW cards made Arn's turn no surprise.
Oh, Dustin also had a great move when he was thrown out of the ring
and he went flying down the metal stairs at a frightening speed.
4. Austin vs. Steamboat
This match moved at a very quick pace. After a lot of hot action,
they teased an Austin DQ. Steamboat begged the ref to allow the
match to continue, which seemed to foreshadow a title change, but
then out of nowhere Austin reversed a cross-body block and pinned
Steamboat, with a little help from the ropes.
One of the funniest things I have ever seen in wrestling happened in
the middle of this match. Austin was beating the hell out of
Steamboat, and Steamboat was almost out of it on the ropes. Austin
walked up to him and noticed the cameraman was right below them.
He grabbed one of Steamboats limp arms, flapped it up and down at
the camera, and yelled, "Hi, everybody!" I almost died laughing.
5. Cactus/Sullivan vs. Roma/Orndorff
This match was embarrassing. Evad Meltzer said in the last Observer
that WCW has decided to tone down the extreme violence that has marked
some of their recent PPV matches, so that probably killed any chance
of Cactus and Orndorff duplicating some of their great brawling from
SuperBrawl III. I don't care for Roma and Orndorff as a team.
Sullivan doesn't do much for me in the ring. The match was fought
with normal rules. Cactus and Sullivan were booked to lose. Yes,
it was as bad as it sounds.
Actually, it was worse. Cactus *again* got pinned (can't somebody
else do the job when he is on a tag team booked to lose?). After
years of seeing the ref stop a pin count if a wrestler's foot is
on or under the ropes, the ref here started a count with Cactus
clearly halfway outside of the ring! Unless he momentarily thought
Cactus was four feet tall or he suddenly couldn't see more than
two feet in front of him, there is no way the ref couldn't have
noticed this. To top it off, Roma (?) was holding on to Cactus's
leg, which should also have been visible to the ref when he started
the count.
6. WCW World Championship: Flair vs. Hogan
Yes, it was the hardcores' worst nightmare come true...
...but I liked it! Hogan had bulked up a little for this match (which
was a bad thing, since the tremendous definition he'd been showing the
past few months and even at the Clash was gone), but he was nowhere near
his WWF peak. His skin is starting to look very leathery, and I
imagine he's a prime candidate for skin cancer. His hairline has gone
from "receding" to "receded".
Oh, and he got the biggest pop anybody has received in WCW in years!
I've already read reports about how Hogan did nothing but his standard
set of moves. That is not true. He pulled out several moves that
I have never seen him do before, and they looked surprisingly good.
He may have done more wrestling moves than Flair did in this match.
Yes, he looks older and less powerful, but his endurance was definitely
up. I did not get the impression that Flair was carrying him, as
others have posted.
I even read a complaint about how many times he "hulked up". Excuse
me, but that is a *bad* thing? I don't think so. The problem I have
always had with the "hulking up" is it is too cartoonish because it
made Hogan invincible. In this match, it was drastically toned down,
so much that it was no more powerful than the typical "adrenaline
rush" that most face wrestlers get. Hogan hulked up several times
and had his momentum stopped by Flair. I found that much more realistic
and satisfying than knowing that as soon as he hulked up the match
was over.
The match was an entertaining rendition of the classic WWF/Hogan
formula: It got out of control, there was quite a bit of cheating,
but the ref let it go, and in the end Hulkamania prevailed.
We saw Hogan pull out some new moves. We saw Flair clamp the figure
four on him for a long time, and Hogan barely got out of it and sold
the leg injury for a long time. We saw Hogan turn things around and
put the figure four on Flair! We saw Mr. T stop Sherri from handing
Flair brass knucks, only to allow Flair to retrieve them from the
floor moments later. We saw Hogan kick out after Flair nailed him
with the knucks. We saw Hogan hulk up, set Flair up for the legdrop,
and MISS it. We saw Sherri stop a three count by sliding the ref
out of the ring and slamming him into the railing in one fluid
motion.
And, yes, we saw Hogan go for the legdrop again, hit it, and defeat
Ric Flair.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There's still enough
mark blood in me to want to see Hogan and Flair go at it, and this
match was all I could have ever wanted. Hogan in particular was
probably wrestling better than he would have in his prime, and he did
it in a very convincing manner. I may need a police escort out of
the newsgroup after saying this, but I think Flair was the weakest
element in this match, because he was clearly not at the top of his
game (which, admittedly, is a more difficult game than Hogan's).
I was starting to agree that this would be a disaster, but now I don't
know. I read Meltzer's pessimism in the last Observer and couldn't
help but notice that he ignored the fact that they had to turn *2,000*
people away from the last Center Stage taping because Hogan was there.
No other WCW wrestlers could have appeared on mainstream shows like
Hogan did. I've seen newspaper articles. The Orlando Arena was
packed, and I don't think WCW could have *paid* 15,000 people to attend
some of their previous PPVs. The people in the Orlando Arena were
going nuts for Hogan, and the crowd was better than any WCW crowd in
years. Maybe there will be a rebirth of Hulkamania after all...
It certainly will be interesting when the buy rate numbers start
coming in.
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
/ Bob Rusbasan | Dance to the tension \
/ rrus...@nyx.cs.du.edu | of a world on edge \
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
TJ White
yx10.cs.du.edu to All <=-
Rr> 1. TV Title: Regal vs. Badd
Rr> I still can't believe that they switched Badd in for Sting because
Rr> of a planned angle. The fact that Sting then didn't show up at all,
Rr> when he had no real injury, is possibly really bad news for WCW.
Well, the way I see it, there are two possibilities here. One, if the PWI
interview Sting did was in ANY WAY legit, then he may be pissed at this
push Hogan is getting. If not, then there is a chance that his injury may
have been legit. An eye injury isn't all that difficult to attain.
Rr> Badd has some very nice looking moves, but his matches don't flow
Rr> very well. Regal's matches flow, but just too slowly. Together,
Rr> they worked a good, if not spectacular, match that ended with
Rr> Regal cheating his way to victory again.
Rr> Since Badd holds some kind of record for most title matches without
Rr> ever winning a title, the result of this match was never in question,
Rr> so that made it a little less enjoyable.
Well, I thought Badd my have had a chance if for no other reason than that
record!! In any case, I agree, the match was better than I expected from
them. Only thing I wonder is if Pillman was going to be there, why not let
him face Regal?
Rr> 2. Vader vs. Guardian Angel
Rr> This was a decent brawl. The action was probably better than it
Rr> was in their Chicago match, but it didn't go as long, and the ending
Rr> was very lame. After being taught for years that "the ref can't
Rr> call what he doesn't see", which has allowed some ridiculous
Rr> situations to go unpunished, Angel gets disqualified for holding a
Rr> night stick he took from Vader, even though he never used it.
Rr> It was funny to watch Vader and Race laugh about it afterwards,
Rr> though...
Angel showed alot more power in this match than I thought he had. Vader is
huge, and Angel handled him fairly well.
Rr> 3. Buck/Funk vs. Dustin/Anderson
Rr> I enjoyed this quite a bit. Anderson was in for a while, then Rhodes
Rr> came in and fell prety to Buck and Funk's double-teaming. After
Rr> mounting a great comeback in the heel's corner, he tagged in AA.
Rr> At this point, we got some horribly sloppy camera work. Despite the
Rr> fact that I think it was due to incompetence and not good planning,
Rr> it actually worked out well. Right as Dustin tagged Arn, the camera
Rr> panned to show the crowd cheering for the hot tag. Meanwhile, the
Rr> announcers start going nuts, and they switch back to the ring, where
Rr> Dustin is laid out on the mat. Arn drags Funk onto Rhodes, and it's
Rr> all over. Happily, WCW showed the reply of Arn DDT'ing Rhodes.
Rr> There was some great action in this match, and I thought the ending
Rr> was well done, especially since Flair and Arn are buddies and Flair
Rr> has been a heel for quite some time. Unfortunately, the leaked lineup
Rr> of future WCW cards made Arn's turn no surprise.
Rr> Oh, Dustin also had a great move when he was thrown out of the ring
Rr> and he went flying down the metal stairs at a frightening speed.
Best spill of the night, other than Harley doing the same thing in Vader's
match :-).
Rr> 4. Austin vs. Steamboat
Rr> This match moved at a very quick pace. After a lot of hot action,
Rr> they teased an Austin DQ. Steamboat begged the ref to allow the
Rr> match to continue, which seemed to foreshadow a title change, but
Rr> then out of nowhere Austin reversed a cross-body block and pinned
Rr> Steamboat, with a little help from the ropes.
Rr> One of the funniest things I have ever seen in wrestling happened in
Rr> the middle of this match. Austin was beating the hell out of
Rr> Steamboat, and Steamboat was almost out of it on the ropes. Austin
Rr> walked up to him and noticed the cameraman was right below them.
Rr> He grabbed one of Steamboats limp arms, flapped it up and down at
Rr> the camera, and yelled, "Hi, everybody!" I almost died laughing.
You know, I've heard alot of people complain about this match, but I
thought it was the best I've seen Austin in ages. Steamboat, if nothing
else, has the ability to bring out the best in his opponents. He did that
here. Austin worked harder than he has in a while. If he's going to be
the heir to Flair's throne, he's going to need to work like this more often
though, especially in light of Curt Hennig coming in.
Rr> 5. Cactus/Sullivan vs. Roma/Orndorff
Rr> Actually, it was worse. Cactus *again* got pinned (can't somebody
Rr> else do the job when he is on a tag team booked to lose?). After
Rr> years of seeing the ref stop a pin count if a wrestler's foot is
Rr> on or under the ropes, the ref here started a count with Cactus
Rr> clearly halfway outside of the ring! Unless he momentarily thought
Rr> Cactus was four feet tall or he suddenly couldn't see more than
Rr> two feet in front of him, there is no way the ref couldn't have
Rr> noticed this. To top it off, Roma (?) was holding on to Cactus's
Rr> leg, which should also have been visible to the ref when he started
Rr> the count.
Well, a couple of things here. First, I don't care much for Sullivan
either. The guy just doesn't no how to sell a move. I liked Maxx Payne
better. But.... Anyway. I think we got spoiled after all those Cactus v.
Nasty matches. How could any CIVILIZED tag match compare? The only thing
I'll say about the way the match ended is that Cactus and Sullivan defeated
Bad Attidude the EXACT same way on World Wide the day before.
Rr> 6. WCW World Championship: Flair vs. Hogan
Rr> I've already read reports about how Hogan did nothing but his standard
Rr> set of moves. That is not true. He pulled out several moves that
Rr> I have never seen him do before, and they looked surprisingly good.
Rr> He may have done more wrestling moves than Flair did in this match.
Well, that may be exagerating a tad, but the first 5 minutes or so saw some
pretty good moves from both Hogan and Flair. Perhaps this came from Japan,
I don't know. Or, maybe Flair showed him something during practice :-).
Rr> Yes, he looks older and less powerful, but his endurance was
Rr> definitely up. I did not get the impression that Flair was carrying
Rr> him, as others have posted.
Hogan did look fresher than I expected at the end. But, I still think
there were enough rest holds thrown in to help him through.
Rr> rush" that most face wrestlers get. Hogan hulked up several times
Rr> and had his momentum stopped by Flair. I found that much more
Rr> realistic and satisfying than knowing that as soon as he hulked up the
Rr> match was over.
I agree. And, Hogan missing that legdrop early was great too.
Rr> The match was an entertaining rendition of the classic WWF/Hogan
Rr> formula: It got out of control, there was quite a bit of cheating,
Rr> but the ref let it go, and in the end Hulkamania prevailed.
Well, we'll have to wait and see if Hulkamania has prevailed or not. Hogan
and Mr. T talk about WWF in 1984, but this smells familiar to something
that happened in NWA 1984. Flair v. Rhodes. Rhodes defeated Flair at
Starcade, only to have the title returned to Flair the following weekend
after the ORIGINAL referee (Tommy Young??) said that he had MENTALLY
disqualified Flair for the interference of the Andersons. I can see Pee
Wee Anderson doing the same thing because of Sherri's interference. If so,
then Hogan will win the match by DQ, but the belt will go back to Flair.
Rr> I've said this before, and I'll say it again: There's still enough
Rr> mark blood in me to want to see Hogan and Flair go at it, and this
Rr> match was all I could have ever wanted. Hogan in particular was
Rr> probably wrestling better than he would have in his prime, and he did
Rr> it in a very convincing manner. I may need a police escort out of
Rr> the newsgroup after saying this, but I think Flair was the weakest
Rr> element in this match, because he was clearly not at the top of his
Rr> game (which, admittedly, is a more difficult game than Hogan's).
Well, I think Hogan may have looked better BECAUSE Flair toned his game
down a tad.
... What do you mean? You actually read this Tagline?!?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--
TJ White
twh...@telerama.lm.com
TJ White
An> I know Dave S. already brought this up, but where did Titan come into
An> this? Are you justifying the poor showing on BatB by saying that two
An> matches that *haven't even happened yet* will be horrible?
No, but not everybody thought this was a poor showing. I didn't!
An> First of all I'm smart enough to not have a rating system in the first
An> place. You have said before that an ending of a match, the heat of
An> the crowd, the buildup of the angle (or lack thereof), and even lack
An> of audio cannot take anything away from the overall match. I couldn't
An> disagree more. A stupid ending definitely takes away from the overall
An> match for me. Also, I did not "deduct it all for the last ten
An> seconds". I said that it ruined the match from being great. I
An> compimented both guys on their work and called it the best match on
An> the card IMO.
Well, all I can say is that if screwjob endings bother you, then you should
quit watching wrestling. Because they've been a staple of the sport for
about 100 years, and will no doubt be part of it for the next 100.
An> impressed with Austin as much as others have either. He could be
An> great and shows flashes of brilliance, but overall he just doesn't
An> seem to put it all together. Also, the lack of any angle, no heat to
An> speak of and other things which are totally irrelavent to you, left me
An> with little interest at all in this match.
I think you're being too rough on these guys. Austin looked better in this
than he has in ages. You obviously don't like Steamboat. Hey, I don't
either. But he's still a good worker. Don't forget, this is SUPPOSED to
be wrestling. It seems that everyone thinks that for a match to be
entertaining that there has to be concession stand fights and trash cans
thrown all over the place. Sorry, but I find that irritating after a
while. I actually LIKE watching alot of counter wrestling. And we got
that here, along with some decent fights mixed in. And the crowd was into
it as well. Oh, and as for the lack of an angle, you must not have been
watching WCW for the past year. Because, if you had, then you'd know that
this has been building for quite some time. Steamboat ended Austin's TV
Title reign. Then he kept kept the #1 contender from getting the title
shot at Stampede. That is the angle that this was working from. It wasn't
a great one, but it still served it's purpose.
An> I can't see how you think this was better worked than the UW match.
An> This had the same surpise ending as no one knew for sure who was going
An> to win before the match started. The only thing they did better in
An> this match was eliminate the bearhug. (although they tried to replace
An> it with the rear chinlock which served as the move to Hulk Out of).
An> The UW match had no outside interference and heat that has yet to be
An> matched. The angle was pretty much the same in both cases I think.
An> UW was on par with Flair in the wwf as far as the 'big gun' type of
An> thing goes.
Well, I look at this match this way. I have seen Hogan in TWO matches I've
enjoyed over the last 10 years. Hogan v. Warrior was the first. This was
the second. I enjoyed seeing Hogan atleast TRY to wrestle in the opening
parts of the match. I enjoyed seeing Hogan MISS the legdrop early
(allowing me to slip into mark mode and hope that I'd seen the last of it).
I enjoyed seeing Sherri do those splashes off the top onto Hogan. I
ENJOYED that stuff. No, I didn't like the "Ending". "Ending" in
quotations because we don't know the final outcome yet. Flair COULD get
the title back on a Tunney like decision. But, screwjobs were SUPPOSED to
be the theme of the night. Take every match up to this point. In every
one, the heel won, and he did it by cheating. Now comes Flair. The self
professed "Dirtiest player in the game." It would take somebody of Hogan's
caliber to beat that trend. And, assuming he gets to keep the title, he
did. Don't forget, this entire night was to get Hogan over with the fans.
To make Hogan the one face that the fans could count on. In case you
missed it.... they succeeded!!
... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.
Paul R. Perdeus
: -=> Quoting AnthraxAllelerama.lm.com to All <=-
[SNIP]
: Well, all I can say is that if screwjob endings bother you, then you should
: quit watching wrestling. Because they've been a staple of the sport for
: about 100 years, and will no doubt be part of it for the next 100.
Look dude, I know that screwjobs are as big a part of wrestling as
anything. Having 5 out of 6 on a card is pure BS. (arguably 6 for 6 if
they do indeed do something with the title this weekend). A screwjob can
be a great tool for drawing heat and keeping a fued going by setting up a
rematch. The only match that accomplished that was Vader/Boss and I
guess the tag match with AA. Regal/Badd? Austin/Steamboat? There's no
point. When used in excess they stink and detract from the overall
product. There are also different ways of doing screwjobs too.
Something other than same old same old would've been better (but even
still, not the the degreee that it was used).
: it as well. Oh, and as for the lack of an angle, you must not have been
: watching WCW for the past year. Because, if you had, then you'd know that
: this has been building for quite some time. Steamboat ended Austin's TV
: Title reign. Then he kept kept the #1 contender from getting the title
: shot at Stampede. That is the angle that this was working from. It wasn't
: a great one, but it still served it's purpose.
I have been watching WCW for the past year. Did they mention any of the
history of these two? They barely mentioned the match at all on the tv
shows except when running down the entire lineup. It was like they threw
it in there just to get another match. Some angle. And how did it serve
it's purpose? WHat was the purpose? Will there be a rematch at the next
card to resolve the title situation once and for all? It's possible, but
I'd bet on it not happening.
[Hogan/Warrior/Flair deleted]
: ENJOYED that stuff. No, I didn't like the "Ending". "Ending" in
: quotations because we don't know the final outcome yet. Flair COULD get
: the title back on a Tunney like decision. But, screwjobs were SUPPOSED to
: be the theme of the night. Take every match up to this point. In every
: one, the heel won, and he did it by cheating. Now comes Flair. The self
: professed "Dirtiest player in the game." It would take somebody of Hogan's
: caliber to beat that trend. And, assuming he gets to keep the title, he
Excuse me, but where do you get that "screwjobs were SUPPOSED to be the
theme of the night"? If screwjobs are the theme of an entire card it's
doomed to begin with. You said we don't know the final outcome yet. You
enjoy watching a PPV and not knowing the result of the main event? Not I.
: did. Don't forget, this entire night was to get Hogan over with the fans.
: To make Hogan the one face that the fans could count on. In case you
: missed it.... they succeeded!!
The entire night was not to get Hogan over. Hogan is as over as he'll
ever be. He's never going to win over the hardcore audience that goes
to/buys WCW PPV's. He'll always be over with the marks that were there
to see HIM in the first place. The point of this whole Hogan situation
is to put WCW on the map by using Hogan to draw mainstream attention and
marks into the fold and then hoping that they see something that they
like and decide to stay after Hogan leaves in December. What, in your
opinion, did they give people to come back for? The numbers will tell us
in another month or so whether or not they are succeeding, and we may not
know for sure until even after that. As for this initial step, in case
you missed it, I think they failed.
: TJ White
: twh...@telerama.lm.com
Paul
--
Now we've rewritten history, the one thing we've found out
Sweet taste of vindication, turns to ashes in your mouth
-- Megadeth "Ashes In Your Mouth"
Herb Kunze
Bob Rusbasan <rrus...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
>Cactus *again* got pinned (can't somebody
>else do the job when he is on a tag team booked to lose?).
Since Cactus is the one leaving the company in the very near future,
who'd you expect to get pinned?
>6. WCW World Championship: Flair vs. Hogan
>I've already read reports about how Hogan did nothing but his standard
>set of moves. That is not true. He pulled out several moves that
>I have never seen him do before, and they looked surprisingly good.
And Curtis thought I was joking when I said Hogan his working boots
on ;-). Sure, they aren't the same boots that Liger, Benoit, etc.,
put on, but there was a reasonably noticeable attempt to at least
try. He did more than go through the motions, but not all that
much more.
>He may have done more wrestling moves than Flair did in this match.
Flair is expending half his energy on getting over as a heel.
Whenever he does this, it almost always hurts his match quality.
>The match was an entertaining rendition of the classic WWF/Hogan
>formula: It got out of control, there was quite a bit of cheating,
>but the ref let it go, and in the end Hulkamania prevailed.
I thought the match had a very good story line, fitting in nicely
with all of the elements they had built up. Sting should have been
involved somehow, perhaps with getting rid of Sherri.
>I was starting to agree that this would be a disaster, but now I don't
>know. I read Meltzer's pessimism in the last Observer and couldn't
>help but notice that he ignored the fact that they had to turn *2,000*
>people away from the last Center Stage taping because Hogan was there.
>No other WCW wrestlers could have appeared on mainstream shows like
>Hogan did. I've seen newspaper articles.
"Dave"s! What can you do with them? ;-)
>It certainly will be interesting when the buy rate numbers start
>coming in.
This WCW PPV has already generated more posts than the average WCW
show does. I don't know if that's a measure of anything.
Herb...
Bob Rusbasan
> In article <30etk7$q...@nyx10.cs.du.edu>,
> Bob Rusbasan <rrus...@nyx10.cs.du.edu> wrote:
> >Cactus *again* got pinned (can't somebody
> >else do the job when he is on a tag team booked to lose?).
> Since Cactus is the one leaving the company in the very near future,
> who'd you expect to get pinned?
It's not just this PPV. I remember Cactus Jack fans dancing in
the streets when he was put over *Van* *Hammer* for crying out
loud. Since then, whenever he is in a tag team match, he is
almost always the man to get pinned. He loses almost all of his
major singles matches. As I said in comments you edited out, I
think Cactus doesn't have *enough* of an ego problem to allow
this to happen.
> >It certainly will be interesting when the buy rate numbers start
> >coming in.
> This WCW PPV has already generated more posts than the average WCW
> show does. I don't know if that's a measure of anything.
They've certainly pushed people's buttons, for better or worse.
Almost everyone's either saying "great show" or "I can't fucking
believe that shit".
TJ White
0n> I have been watching WCW for the past year. Did they mention any of
An> the history of these two? They barely mentioned the match at all on
An> the tv shows except when running down the entire lineup. It was like
An> they threw it in there just to get another match. Some angle. And
An> how did it serve it's purpose? WHat was the purpose? Will there be a
An> rematch at the next card to resolve the title situation once and for
An> all? It's possible, but I'd bet on it not happening.
Well, Austin mentioned why he wanted this match to take place in every
interview he did since the match was announced. As for why WCW would want
this match as part of it?? Well, I'd say that the best reason for them to
have Steamboat there (other than the fact that SOME people happen to think
he is a decent worker) is that Steamboat was fairly big in the WWF while
Hogan was there. If they are trying to get some of the people the WWF had
when Hogan was on top, they could be padding their PPV's with former WWF
stars (hence, Orndorff & Roma winning over the better team, Guardian Angel
losing by DQ, rather than pinfall like the rest of the faces, etc..)
An> [Hogan/Warrior/Flair deleted]
An> : ENJOYED that stuff. No, I didn't like the "Ending". "Ending" in
An> : quotations because we don't know the final outcome yet. Flair COULD
An> get : the title back on a Tunney like decision. But, screwjobs were
An> SUPPOSED to : be the theme of the night. Take every match up to this
An> point. In every : one, the heel won, and he did it by cheating. Now
An> comes Flair. The self : professed "Dirtiest player in the game." It
An> would take somebody of Hogan's : caliber to beat that trend. And,
An> assuming he gets to keep the title, he
An> Excuse me, but where do you get that "screwjobs were SUPPOSED to be
An> the theme of the night"? If screwjobs are the theme of an entire card
An> it's doomed to begin with. You said we don't know the final outcome
An> yet. You enjoy watching a PPV and not knowing the result of the main
An> event? Not I.
Read the first line again.... I SAID I didn't like the ending. But, the
match itself was better than I expected. As for why I think screwjobs were
supposed to be the theme of the night, I explained that.
An> : did. Don't forget, this entire night was to get Hogan over with the
An> fans. : To make Hogan the one face that the fans could count on. In
An> case you : missed it.... they succeeded!!
An> there to see HIM in the first place. The point of this whole Hogan
An> situation is to put WCW on the map by using Hogan to draw mainstream
An> attention and marks into the fold and then hoping that they see
An> something that they like and decide to stay after Hogan leaves in
An> December. What, in your opinion, did they give people to come back
An> for? The numbers will tell us in another month or so whether or not
An> they are succeeding, and we may not know for sure until even after
An> that. As for this initial step, in case you missed it, I think they
An> failed.
In retrospect, I think you worded this better than I did. True, Hogan will
never be over with WCW fans. Atleast, not the old ones. I agree, Hogan is
clearly there to tap into the rapidly depleting WWF fan base, as well as
those that McMahon had (and has since lost) when Hogan was popular. The
theme of the night was to once again creat that "Immortal" image that Hogan
had in his WWF peak. If Hogan fans liked what they saw from Hogan in this
match, then they WILL come back to see more. Now, I agree, WCW needs to
take advantage of this and do something to KEEP them there once he's gone.
If people keep watching the PPV's (even if just to see Hogan), then they
haven't failed until he's gone. So, that gives them six months to find
somebody who can bring people in (whether to the arenas or to watch the
PPV's) nearly as well as Hogan. This might be why Sting was pulled out of
this PPV. Sting may have overshadowed Hogan. In any case, if history is
any indication, the person getting the push once Hogan and Flair are gone
won't be a face. He'll be a heel. Because the NWA learned a LONG time ago
that people will pay just as much hoping to see a heel lose as they will
hoping to see a face win.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
marv bloom
<stuff, deleted since only replying to the statement below>
R >Speaking of the crowd, they were the biggest, loudest crowd WCW has
>had in a long time. The place seemed full or close to it. WCW coudn't
>even paper an arena full before they got Hogan.
I'd say the arena was SRO and with regards to the 5,000 plants, that
rumor was a load of Crap. Five thousand warm butts occupy a fair
amount of space, at least ringside to fifty rows back.
So, how come the derogatory signs (Hulk Who?, Hogan Sucks and several
others that were briefly caught in the background) were allowed to
appear at ringside?
Whoever started that rumour of the 5K "plants" is strictly venting
anal gas. This WCW PPV $OLD and it should be their best so far (with
respect to Revenue). Vince is going to have a hard time selling Summer
Slam, unless he can get O.J. against one of the UT's.........;-)
A great PPV it wasn't, actually the interest was Flair vs Hogan and
that stole the Show, no matter what the prelims did. The Guardian
Angel vs Vader match was terrible. A simple change of uniform didn't
cut it (BBM was severely squashed by Vader not too long ago).
Best Commentary Spots:
Jesse saying "I don't know, ask him"
Heenan working for an Oscar nomination
Interesting that Hogan never wore the "gold belt" and let Mr. T hold
it aloft..........kinda' like the boxing entourage, as they left the
arena.
Nice to see B. Brian Blair again and Hacksaw (he was the only one
that was naked from the waist up, no doubt he's signed on with the
WCW) and the Beefer.
Pillman looked like a kid with his new haircut and the difference in
size (whilst standing behind the Hulkster) was very apparent. The look
on his face, was interesting. He never ever saw a complete Sell
performed that way before and was impressed.
All the prelims were sluff, the intensity was reserved for the Main
Event. Flair lost but magnificent in how he jobbed for Hogan and let
him rest (with the facelock) but kept it competitive. Hogan did do
three wrestling holds (to his credit), somewhat slow in the execution
but nonetheless he did them.
Jimmy Hart grabbed the chair and Mr.T did carry off Sherri, which was
the signal to end it. It appeared that Flair had some cosmetic surgery
done (removal of cyst to his back and the resultant scar). The ending
showed that Ric Flair isn't out of the scene, he was a tough adversary
and will do a "screw job" to get that belt back, or at worst declared
open for the third PPV.
By then all the WWF fans will be clued in and subscribe to the
"rubber match". I think Flair has had enough and wants out and really
this should be a draw in the encoming series.
Perhaps the next step is to have Flair & Hogan unite in a Tagteam and
then of course the Gold is ensured. Ted isn't a billionaire on account
of luck. Both will be used to their fullest but the combining and
forming a tagteam is the next logical step (apres 4 Horesmen)
Naturally, the Four Horsemen could swaythe outcome of next event.
This might even things out, but too early to comment now.
Marv
*
---
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Dave Scherer
> I'd say the arena was SRO and with regards to the 5,000 plants, that
>rumor was a load of Crap. Five thousand warm butts occupy a fair
>amount of space, at least ringside to fifty rows back.
>
> Whoever started that rumour of the 5K "plants" is strictly venting
>anal gas. This WCW PPV $OLD and it should be their best so far (with
>respect to Revenue). Vince is going to have a hard time selling Summer
>Slam, unless he can get O.J. against one of the UT's.........;-)
Marv, I "started the rumor." Too bad it wasn't a rumor.
They people were put there to cheer Hogan. Funny how there was no heat
until the main event, when Hogan got a huge pop.
Don't do another ridiculous Summer heel turn.