Jones to fight Michalczewski
BoyMayo
http://www.irish-times.com:80/irish-times/paper/1999/0107/spo16.html
Read to halfway through to hear Murad Muhammed's comments
about Roy Jones-DM in April:
Thursday, January 7, 1999
Rumour seems to be wishful thinking
------------------------------------------------------------------------
George Kimball/America At Large
Rumours that Steve Collins might be lured out of retirement to fight
light-heavyweight champion Roy Jones Jnr appear at the moment to be a
case of wishful thinking, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. In
fact, we may unwittingly haven given it a nudge toward reality
yesterday.
Reports from Ireland yesterday morning had Collins in Las Vegas to
negotiate with Jones' representatives about a lucrative bout which would
be televised by HBO. Collins is in Las Vegas all right, on holiday with
his family and members of his wife Gemma's family, but if he went there
looking for Jones then he overshot his mark by some 2,500 miles.
Jones is in Pensacola, Florida, where he will defend his World Boxing
Council and World Boxing Association titles against Ricky Frazier on
Saturday night.
Moreover, HBO vice-president Lou DiBella, whose network has Jones under
long-term contract and who would be in charge of overseeing such an
arrangement, said there have been no talks between the network and
either Jones or Collins about a proposed meeting between the two.
Murad Muhammad, Jones' promoter, said he has not spoken with Collins or
anyone representing him, but added that "we'd be happy to welcome Steve
Collins if he wants to come to the fight" this weekend.
"We're on record as offering (WBO champion) Dariusz Michalczewski a
chance to fight Roy in Poland in May or June," said Muhammad, "but if
Steve wants to fight again, he can be on the list for later in the year.
"We'd like to get rid of Michalczewski first," said Muhammad, "but I
like Steve. I've known him since I promoted the WBA title fight between
him and Reggie Johnson in the Meadowlands half a dozen years ago."
TWO years ago, when Collins still held the WBO super-middleweight title,
there were brief negotiations about a meeting with Jones, but they
quickly disintegrated when it became clear that Collins had a vastly
inflated expectation of his worth in such a bout.
"I find it difficult to believe they could put the fight together now,"
said Jones' attorney Fred Levin.
Levin's recollection is that between his operation, Square Ring, which
then promoted Jones, and HBO, there was an offer on the table to Frank
Warren of $4 million for a TWO-fight package which would have included
bouts against Robin Reid and Collins.
Collins turned it down flat.
"And the money today would be a lot less than there was two years ago,"
said Levin. "Collins hasn't exactly been in the spotlight, you know."
Not unless one counts the Phoenix Park polo pitch, anyway.
Fred Levin's brother Stanley is the only representative of the Jones
camp to have spoken with Collins or his people. Stanley Levin confirmed
yesterday evening that Collins and his Dublin solicitor Brian Delahunt
were expected in Florida tomorrow.
"We've agreed to talk," said Levin, "but that's as far as it's gone
right now."
"But everybody SAYS they want to fight Roy until they start negotiating
in earnest," explained Muhammad. "You see, there are two ways of saying
`No'. One is to just say you don't want to fight. The other is to demand
so much money that it can't possibly be made. Then you turn around and
say the other guy won't fight YOU."
By the time a bout could be pieced together, if it could, Collins would
have been away from the ring for nearly two years. At 35, he is no
spring chicken, but he is still considerably younger than Frazier, an
18-year veteran of the New York Police Department who is taking time off
from his day job at the precinct house to fight Jones this weekend.
Trainer Freddie Roach said yesterday that Collins dropped by his Wild
Card Gym in Hollywood earlier in the week.
"He was in Los Angeles with about 12 family members. Steve said he might
be going to the Jones fight," revealed Roach, "but other than that he
was kind of secretive."
Arguably the world's best pound-for-pound boxer, Roy Jones is in the end
his own man, and calls his own tune. Collins' earlier attempts to
challenge Jones out of pride fell on deaf ears, and it is difficult to
imagine a scenario which would make a stand-alone Collins fight
economically attractive to the champion.
JONES is, however, guided by an unmistakable sense of loyalty to his
friends, and therein could lie the key to this mystery. While Collins
doesn't bring any more to the table (considerably less, in fact) than he
did a few years ago, Frank Warren, who remains his promoterof-record,
might.
Derrick (Smoke) Gainer is a light-punching superfeatherweight from
Pensacola. He is also Roy Jones Jnr's boyhood pal, and as Jones made his
ascent through the boxing ranks, he made sure he took his buddy Smoke
with him. Gainer has fought in a supporting role on 18 of Jones'
undercards, and will fight in another Saturday night when be faces
Harold Warren for the vacant USBA 130 lb title.
Warren also promotes Britain's Prince Naseem Hamed, and since Collins
last fought has signed the Prince up to his own long-term deal with HBO.
Just thinking out loud, it occurred to us that while Jones-Collins might
be pure fantasy, a Jones-Collins/Hamed-Gainer doubleheader might be
another matter entirely, and one that would surely appeal to the 175lb
champion.
"That's the only way I can think of that the fight could be made," said
Fred Levin when we proposed it to him yesterday.
"NOW you're talking," Muhammad enthusiastically agreed. "That's a
pay-per-view show. That's a GREAT pay-per-view show! Oh, sure, we'd do
that."
So there you have it. When and if Collins shows up in Pensacola, the
bill will be waiting for him.
© Copyright: The Irish Times
Contact: itw...@irish-times.com
.....BoyMayo
------------------------------
Staff Writer, CyberBoxing Zone
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com
Editor, Seconds Out
http://members.aol.com/boymayo
------------------------------
Christopher Michael Collins
>George Kimball/America At Large
>"We're on record as offering (WBO champion) Dariusz Michalczewski a
>chance to fight Roy in Poland in May or June," said Muhammad
>"We'd like to get rid of Michalczewski first," said Muhammad
Wake me up in May or June when RJJ steps into the ring in Poland.
(I am one who feels a little sceptical)
--
--Chris
Adwersarz
WOW
RJJ is taking a huge chance on this one.
I do not think that he knows what he is getting into
Fans in the USA and in Europe are alot different.
In the US the fans clap, chear,and yell but not like in europe
and in this fight it will be RJJ vs thousands of fans that will be behind
Dariusz.
I hope this fight finally happens because I am tired of RJJ fighting
mediocare talent
and still calling himself the best P4P fighter in the world
Adwersarz
the destruction of RJJ
Brian
also provide a huge shock for the European fans who don't realize that RJ is
light years ahead of any of their fighters in talent and boxing skill. I look
forward to this matchup.
Ivan Weiss
> steps in the ring. Dariusz will take him apart between the ropes. It
> will be a great sight for Tiger fans, and a bad sight for RJJ
> supporters.
I really appreciate your loyalty to your Polish compatriot, who I agree
is a very good fighter. And I respect your opinion, too, even though I do
not share it. Now tell me, if the unthinkable (for you) happens and Jones
runs rings around Michalczewski, will you admit on this NG that you
*might* have been mistaken?
Ivan Weiss Discussion, n. A method of confirming others
Vashon WA in their errors.
-- Ambrose Bierce: The Devil's Dictionary
The Sanity Cruzer
>In article <369809f7...@news.netinc.ca>, RPP says...
>> Me too. If this goes on in Poland, RJJ will be a beaten man before he
>> steps in the ring. Dariusz will take him apart between the ropes. It
>> will be a great sight for Tiger fans, and a bad sight for RJJ
>> supporters.
>
>I really appreciate your loyalty to your Polish compatriot, who I agree
>is a very good fighter. And I respect your opinion, too, even though I do
>not share it. Now tell me, if the unthinkable (for you) happens and Jones
>runs rings around Michalczewski, will you admit on this NG that you
>*might* have been mistaken?
You're WAY to kind Ivan. Especially about the "respect" part (let alone the
"appreciate" portion). Man, I can't even relate to that.
TSC
The Sanity Cruzer
pa...@samerica.com wrote in message <7794f6$f2h$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Jones' has to take on top opponents. It's about being taken seriously. No,
I
>don't think Michalczewski stands much of a chance, as I've always thought
>he's been overrated. He's got a so-so chin, his power isn't all that, and
>he's been handled carefully. Still, it's a must for Jones to clean up his
>division. Bouts against the likes of Frazier or Grant are just a farce. I
>can't tell how much Jones has left from watching him fight such guys.
>
>The light-heavies have no depth, which makes it even more unexcusable for
>Jones not having cleaned up the division. The logic "he's so good he don't
>need to fight these guys" is totally flawed. It might be true the top guys
in
>a starved division can't touch him, but still it is his goddamn job to take
>care of business and clean up the house.
Agreed on all accounts. Right now, Jones seems to be satisfied with his
being a 'local hero'. Being he's 30 years old (next week), maybe that's how
he'll be remembered.
TSC
RPP
>
>"We're on record as offering (WBO champion) Dariusz Michalczewski a
>chance to fight Roy in Poland in May or June," said Muhammad, "but if
>Steve wants to fight again, he can be on the list for later in the year.
>
>"We'd like to get rid of Michalczewski first," said Muhammad, "but I
>like Steve. I've known him since I promoted the WBA title fight between
>him and Reggie Johnson in the Meadowlands half a dozen years ago."
>
In Poland? Are these guys suicidal??? darek will DESTROY RJJ in
Poland. RJJ stands no chance. Darek would beat RJJ in the States, but
in POland, where he will be fighting professionally for the first time
since he left, he will want to impress and you can be sure RJJ will be
destroyed. These guys want to get rid of Tiger first? Well they will
eat their words in April:) I cant wait to laugh at all you RJJ fans
come April:)
RPP
wrote:
>In Poland,
>WOW
>RJJ is taking a huge chance on this one.
>I do not think that he knows what he is getting into
>Fans in the USA and in Europe are alot different.
>In the US the fans clap, chear,and yell but not like in europe
>and in this fight it will be RJJ vs thousands of fans that will be behind
>Dariusz.
>I hope this fight finally happens because I am tired of RJJ fighting
>mediocare talent
>and still calling himself the best P4P fighter in the world
>
>
Me too. If this goes on in Poland, RJJ will be a beaten man before he
pa...@samerica.com
don't think Michalczewski stands much of a chance, as I've always thought
he's been overrated. He's got a so-so chin, his power isn't all that, and
he's been handled carefully. Still, it's a must for Jones to clean up his
division. Bouts against the likes of Frazier or Grant are just a farce. I
can't tell how much Jones has left from watching him fight such guys.
The light-heavies have no depth, which makes it even more unexcusable for
Jones not having cleaned up the division. The logic "he's so good he don't
need to fight these guys" is totally flawed. It might be true the top guys in
a starved division can't touch him, but still it is his goddamn job to take
care of business and clean up the house.
...pablo
In article <36a0ee29....@news1.newscene.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
CBollocks
>also provide a huge shock for the European fans who don't realize that RJ is
>light years ahead of any of their fighters in talent and boxing skill. I
>look
>forward to this matchup.
>
No kidding. I just can't wait to see how the Polish fans react when they
realise Michalczewski is lying unconscious on the canvas (if I were RJJ, this
is the only thing I'd really worry about).
RPP
Michalczesski will not be KOed by RJJ. This is sheer fantasy.
Michalczewski will KO RJJ. He would do this in America, but if the
fight is in POland, RJJ will be destroyed. Whitherspoon was a very
likeable guy and Polish fans liked him, he was friendly and down to
earth. But RJJ will come in with a arrogance that will cause the fans
to hate him. He will not be ready for it, he will be eaten aliove by
the hostile crowd, and thats before he steps into the Tiger's lair.
Rocky Balboa beat Drago beacuse that was a Hollywood production, but
no such Rocky story here. Tiger will eat him alive and leave few
scraps.
Mike Haught
words:
>If DM takes this fight it should make some of RSB SHUT THE %#*! UP...It will
>also provide a huge shock for the European fans who don't realize that RJ is
>light years ahead of any of their fighters in talent and boxing skill. I look
>forward to this matchup.
If RJJ ever begins to fight and defend his title like a champion,
nobody would have spoken up in the first place.
The real test will be to see if RJJ can ever get the guts riled up for
a defining fight. One that will let him be remembered outside of his
hometown and 3 or 4 RSB defenders after the career is over.
-mwh
Mike Haught
hair and stuff on fight day. You know RJJ may have the Breland
Syndrome befall him if he ever decides to return to the competitive
sports arena one of these days. ;-)
-mwh
On Sun, 10 Jan 1999 02:49:10 GMT, pa...@samerica.com wrote these
words:
>Jones' has to take on top opponents. It's about being taken seriously. No, I
>don't think Michalczewski stands much of a chance, as I've always thought
>he's been overrated. He's got a so-so chin, his power isn't all that, and
>he's been handled carefully. Still, it's a must for Jones to clean up his
>division. Bouts against the likes of Frazier or Grant are just a farce. I
>can't tell how much Jones has left from watching him fight such guys.
>
>The light-heavies have no depth, which makes it even more unexcusable for
>Jones not having cleaned up the division. The logic "he's so good he don't
>need to fight these guys" is totally flawed. It might be true the top guys in
>a starved division can't touch him, but still it is his goddamn job to take
>care of business and clean up the house.
>
>...pablo
>
>
>In article <36a0ee29....@news1.newscene.com>,
> op...@netcene.com wrote:
JCohen9626
fight before Jones went into another 3rd poerson dialogue.
i know RPP is never gonna pass a drug test, but i wouldn't mind seeing Roy get
ruoghed up a few times so he will be a bit more gracious afetr beating up a
fighters who isn't even the best 175# in manhatten, lest alone New york State.
Gregory Gliedman
Christopher Michael Collins wrote:
> BoyMayo <boy...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >George Kimball/America At Large
>
> >"We're on record as offering (WBO champion) Dariusz Michalczewski a
> >chance to fight Roy in Poland in May or June," said Muhammad
>
> >"We'd like to get rid of Michalczewski first," said Muhammad
>
> Wake me up in May or June when RJJ steps into the ring in Poland.
>
> (I am one who feels a little sceptical)
Add me to the list of skeptics.
HBO is obviously sick of televising these abysmal Jones bouts. When
Merchant asked Jones about skipping his WBA mandatory against unknown
and unheralded Dario Mattioni and thus dumping the WBA trinket, Jones
replied that no, he liked being champion.
When asked who his next fight would be against, he replied that it
doesn't matter, he's Roy Jones and he can fight whomever.
Jones sounded to me like a fighter who is through. Although he
indicated he wanted a few more fights, I wouldn't be entirely surprised
if he retired tomorrow.
GG
RPP
<sanity...@cruzers.com> wrote:
>Ivan Weiss wrote in message ...
>>In article <369809f7...@news.netinc.ca>, RPP says...
>
>
>>> Me too. If this goes on in Poland, RJJ will be a beaten man before he
>>> steps in the ring. Dariusz will take him apart between the ropes. It
>>> will be a great sight for Tiger fans, and a bad sight for RJJ
>>> supporters.
>>
>>I really appreciate your loyalty to your Polish compatriot, who I agree
>>is a very good fighter. And I respect your opinion, too, even though I do
>>not share it. Now tell me, if the unthinkable (for you) happens and Jones
>>runs rings around Michalczewski, will you admit on this NG that you
>>*might* have been mistaken?
>
>
>You're WAY to kind Ivan. Especially about the "respect" part (let alone the
>"appreciate" portion). Man, I can't even relate to that.
>
> TSC
>
>
I guess the truth hurts, eh Insanity Loser?
RPP
Weiss) wrote:
>In article <369809f7...@news.netinc.ca>, RPP says...
>> On Sat, 9 Jan 1999 17:20:08 -0600, "Adwersarz" <adwe...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In Poland,
>> >WOW
>> >RJJ is taking a huge chance on this one.
>> >I do not think that he knows what he is getting into
>> >Fans in the USA and in Europe are alot different.
>> >In the US the fans clap, chear,and yell but not like in europe
>> >and in this fight it will be RJJ vs thousands of fans that will be behind
>> >Dariusz.
>> >I hope this fight finally happens because I am tired of RJJ fighting
>> >mediocare talent
>> >and still calling himself the best P4P fighter in the world
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Me too. If this goes on in Poland, RJJ will be a beaten man before he
>> steps in the ring. Dariusz will take him apart between the ropes. It
>> will be a great sight for Tiger fans, and a bad sight for RJJ
>> supporters.
>
>I really appreciate your loyalty to your Polish compatriot, who I agree
>is a very good fighter. And I respect your opinion, too, even though I do
>not share it. Now tell me, if the unthinkable (for you) happens and Jones
>runs rings around Michalczewski, will you admit on this NG that you
>*might* have been mistaken?
>
>
IF, and thats BIG if, RJJ goes into the 10th round standing against
Michalczewski, I will say he is a good fighter.
Adwersarz
as I did when Lewis destroyed Golota
when I thought Golota was going to KO Lewis in 3
I couldn't post as much as I wanted before I will try to post more now,
I am a student of the sport and am objective about fighters chances
and because a figher is just Polish I will not say he is the second coming
of Ali
(Marek Piotrowski, and Przemyslaw Saleta)
Every fighter can be beaten, and so can RJJ
Wesley White
Ko'd in 9),Nestor Giovanni (past his prime), Christophe Girard, and
Virgil Hill (who got KO'd in 4 by RJJ but went full 12 with "Derrick")
are all better than RJJ? Since you don't think Roy will see the 10th,
all these guys seen the 10th and most took him the full 12.
Christopher Michael Collins
>I couldn't post as much as I wanted before I will try to post more now,
Great! Welcome to R.S.B.
Are you in Europe? There is another thread in this group called
"Roll Call 1999" It is the place to tell everyone here about
yourself.
I haven't seen enough of Michaelczewski to guess who would
win between him and RJJ. But I do know Roy needs to fight him
to keep claiming to be the best and to be fighting all comers.
--
--Chris
Brian Losabia
prototype VR helmet and shouted:
>Jones' has to take on top opponents. It's about being taken seriously.
<<snipped>>
Roger that. FUCK the Alphabet Orgs. If RJJ would a) fight Johnson,
Rochigianni/Telesco, and Darius M. in 1999, and then b) leverage his
presumably considerable pull with HBO into a title shot at the unified
Heavyweight Champ in 2000 (?), I think he'd finally earn his place in
the boxing annals. I think that retaining the Alpha-belts and
flimsy mandatories may be the worst thing that RJJ could do at this
point.
<<snipped>>
>
> It might be true the top guys in
>a starved division can't touch him, but still it is his goddamn job to take
>care of business and clean up the house.
>
Amen.
>...pablo
Oh, before I forget, somebody tell mwh that the Mark Breland
crack re: RJJ was out of line. ;)
--
Brian Losabia
DoD #010976
fl...@nojunkmail.jurai.net
PGP Public Key available
<<HINT: remove "nojunkmail." to send email.>>
Michael Haught
<snip>
: Oh, before I forget, somebody tell mwh that the Mark Breland
: crack re: RJJ was out of line. ;)
How so? Mark Breland had been similarly "knighted" as had RJJ before he
received a history lesson in the sport of pugilism. That being, NOBODY is
as good as his press and NOBODY is invincible.
--
-mwh
glie...@oxy.edu
You'll do more than that...we still have a bet. :)
The offer:"If either of these guys beat Jones in the next two years, I will
compose a 20 line rhymed poem entitled "Why Michalczewski/Rocchigiani is
great," and post it. If Jones beats one of them, you write the same poem
about Jones. Do we have a bet?" -Me, 4/28/98
"Damn straight Im in. This is the easiest bet I have ever made."
-RPP, 4/29/98
Now if the unthinkable happens and Jones loses I have to find words that rhyme
with "Michalczewski"...
GG
Ivan Weiss
Correct, except that Jones is about 200 times the fighter Breland was.
Ivan Weiss DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming
Vashon WA others in their errors.
Norman Bates
worthy opponent or two.
Norman
Ivan Weiss wrote in message ...
>
CBollocks
>> Michalczewski, I will say he is a good fighter.
>
>You'll do more than that...we still have a bet. :)
>
>The offer:"If either of these guys beat Jones in the next two years, I will
>compose a 20 line rhymed poem entitled "Why Michalczewski/Rocchigiani is
>great," and post it. If Jones beats one of them, you write the same poem
>about Jones. Do we have a bet?" -Me, 4/28/98
>
>"Damn straight Im in. This is the easiest bet I have ever made."
> -RPP, 4/29/98
>
>Now if the unthinkable happens and Jones loses I have to find words that
>rhyme
>with "Michalczewski"...
>
>GG
>
Oh boy, I really hope one of these fights come off so I can see this (not that
I would expect Lech to keep his end of the bargain, but it would be funny to
see what kind of excuses he comes up with)!
Mike Haught
<iv...@blaze.accessone.com> wrote these words:
>On 11 Jan 1999, Michael Haught wrote:
>
>> Brian Losabia (fl...@nojunkmail.jurai.net) wrote:
>> <snip>
>> : Oh, before I forget, somebody tell mwh that the Mark Breland
>> : crack re: RJJ was out of line. ;)
>>
>> How so? Mark Breland had been similarly "knighted" as had RJJ before he
>> received a history lesson in the sport of pugilism. That being, NOBODY is
>> as good as his press and NOBODY is invincible.
>
>Correct, except that Jones is about 200 times the fighter Breland was.
>
>Ivan Weiss DISCUSSION, n. A method of confirming
>Vashon WA others in their errors.
> -- Ambrose Bierce: "The Devil's Dictionary"
RJJ's got a funny way of proving this. He's fought two good fighters
near the top of their game. I think Breland beats that record.
-mwh
Ivan Weiss
> Is? Appears to be, at least until he's proven it in the ring against a
> worthy opponent or two.
>
> Norman
>
> Ivan Weiss wrote in message ...
> >
> >Correct, except that Jones is about 200 times the fighter Breland was.
No, I mean he's about 200 times better than Breland from what I've seen so
far. I never saw a fighter who improved less from the time he turned pro
to the time he retired than Mark Breland (till I saw Lennox Lewis, that
is). Jones does so many more things in the ring than Breland did that
there's no possible comparison IMO, and it would be an insult to people's
intelligence to continue this thread any further.
Ivan Weiss
> On Mon, 11 Jan 1999 16:38:58 -0800, Ivan Weiss
> <iv...@blaze.accessone.com> wrote these words:
>
> >On 11 Jan 1999, Michael Haught wrote:
> >
> >> Brian Losabia (fl...@nojunkmail.jurai.net) wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >> : Oh, before I forget, somebody tell mwh that the Mark Breland
> >> : crack re: RJJ was out of line. ;)
> >>
> >> How so? Mark Breland had been similarly "knighted" as had RJJ before he
> >> received a history lesson in the sport of pugilism. That being, NOBODY is
> >> as good as his press and NOBODY is invincible.
> >
> >Correct, except that Jones is about 200 times the fighter Breland was.
> RJJ's got a funny way of proving this. He's fought two good fighters
> near the top of their game. I think Breland beats that record.
I stand by my statement. See my reply to Norman Bates.
The Sanity Cruzer
> I never saw a fighter who improved less from the time he turned pro
>to the time he retired than Mark Breland (till I saw Lennox Lewis, that
>is).
You'll love this Ivan: I thought Breland was beating Starling until Marlon
stopped him in their first fight, and, while I don't recall, I might have
thought Mark won the second bout which was called a draw. Now, aren't you
big on Marlon Starling?
IMO, Breland simply did not have the body strength to deal with some of the
stronger welterweights.
TSC
Ivan Weiss
> Ivan Weiss wrote in message ...
>
> > I never saw a fighter who improved less from the time he turned pro
> >to the time he retired than Mark Breland (till I saw Lennox Lewis, that
> >is).
>
> You'll love this Ivan: I thought Breland was beating Starling until Marlon
> stopped him in their first fight, and, while I don't recall, I might have
> thought Mark won the second bout which was called a draw. Now, aren't you
> big on Marlon Starling?
Yep, and I had Starling a clear winner both times.
> IMO, Breland simply did not have the body strength to deal with some of the
> stronger welterweights.
He lacked style. All he could do was jab, jab, jab, throw the big right
hand. Now I'll be the first to say he did that very well. He packed a lot
of power in that right hand. But soon his opponents began to give him a
lot of angles (Starling) and bang his body. Breland never adapted to this.
He stuck to the same style he had always used, and he was clueless.
By the time Breland fought Aaron Davis he flat didn't know what to do with
an opponent who got on his chest and bulled him around inside. This is why
I say it's preposterous, and an insult to Roy Jones, to compare him with
Breland. Jones isn't God, but he knows how to adapt in the ring.