Why ask why?
ACAD1A::JSHCH
two-meter repeater. I have a couple of favorites to share with
the net.
Heard on a repeater in Anchorage: "You're full quieting, OM, and
you should get even better when you get closer to the repeater!"
Barf-out word: Destinated. As in "Well we're just about
destinated here, so I'll say 73 and see you tomorrow."
The original post noted that the trustee of the repeater is the
last one heard, and that's often the case. As a repeater trustee
myself, I monitor almost 24 hours a day and am heard yakking on
the machine nearly every day. Hardly anyone ever suspects that
I'm the trustee, since few two-meter enthusiasts can copy the CW
ID at 15 words per minute. Anyone who is critical of the trustee
should try being a control operator for awhile and see how they
like it. My pet peeve is the lid who brings up the autopatch,
dials a number, gets a busy signal or whatever, and never once
announces his callsign. If I'm near enough to the rig, I try to
bring down the patch immediately--often with a terse admonition.
Bringing up the patch without announcing one's callsign is
comparable to breaking into someone's house and using their
telephone without asking permission. I like to know who's using
the repeater, and whether or not they have an amateur license--
particularly if they use the autopatch, since that's third party
traffic. As the trustee, I'm the first one to whom the FCC would
send a notice of violation if the autopatch is abused.
I also agree with the person who speculated that the trustee is
usually busy programming exciting new voice-synthesizer chips so
that the repeater can sound like a rock-jock. We had that
problem on a local club repeater here in Juneau. The talking
sandpile got to be so irritating that another group of us started
our own repeater. *Our repeater* has no annoying voice
announcements, and no "courtesy" tones. No beeps, no pops, no
whistles--just human voices, with all their frailties. We also
have a fragmented club, with those who like to listen to
synthesized voice on their repeater, and those who don't...
.......Oh, the price of progress!
Another observation: It seems to be much easier to find folks to
program the talking chips than to find someone with experience in
RF who can keep the repeater working up to spec, or someone
willing to climb the tower to do maintenance & repair on the
antenna! Ever notice how many two-meter repeaters have
noticeable desense? They're called alligators--huge mouth, very
small ears. Now to get rid of the occasional intermod......
Keep smiling.
Herb Holeman, WL7BIL
Juneau, Alaska
js...@alaska.bitnet
Gr|nlund Pentti
In article <910820232...@ucsd.edu> JSHCH%ALASKA...@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu (ACAD1A::JSHCH) writes:
>Yes, it's easy to marvel at the conversations one can hear on a
>two-meter repeater. I have a couple of favorites to share with
>the net.
>
>Heard on a repeater in Anchorage: "You're full quieting, OM, and
>you should get even better when you get closer to the repeater!"
>
>Barf-out word: Destinated. As in "Well we're just about
>destinated here, so I'll say 73 and see you tomorrow."
>
Let me add one: "My meter shows 59+40 to you but there is some static
in your signal."
>The original post noted that the trustee of the repeater is the
>last one heard, and that's often the case. As a repeater trustee
>myself, I monitor almost 24 hours a day and am heard yakking on
>the machine nearly every day. Hardly anyone ever suspects that
>I'm the trustee, since few two-meter enthusiasts can copy the CW
>ID at 15 words per minute. Anyone who is critical of the trustee
I wouldn't count on that. Maybe you never met any real two-meter
enthusiasts. People who spend their days yakking on a repeater
are not what I would call VHF enthusiasts. Most VHF people I know
(including myself) can copy even a real CW QSO at 15 WPM. Some
can do that at higher speeds, too...:-)
>should try being a control operator for awhile and see how they
>like it. My pet peeve is the lid who brings up the autopatch,
No, nonononono! Never, never allow those people in control again!
And you should have two trustees like we have, it gives you strength.
My favourite lids are:
1) The old farts who seldom ID themselves on the repeater. If they
do, they are something like 1OU or 3PH (does anyone know which
country has the 1O or 3P suffix?)
2) The old farts who begin with "Is there aaaaaanyone on the repeater
...(beep)...Seeeeems to beee a quieeet day today...(beep)...Aaanybody
on the frequency...(beep)...". I wonder why more than 15 years on the
machine can't teach you anything.
3) Alligators. I know some people who run 100 Watts to a gain vertical
to hit a repeater only few miles away. They never realize that they
very often manage to kerchunk our machine 100 miles away, too.
4) Ex CB yakkers who just have moved 118 MHz up (anybody knows how many
channels this is?) and still keep up with CB jargon and CB manners.
>dials a number, gets a busy signal or whatever, and never once
>announces his callsign. If I'm near enough to the rig, I try to
>bring down the patch immediately--often with a terse admonition.
>Bringing up the patch without announcing one's callsign is
>comparable to breaking into someone's house and using their
>telephone without asking permission. I like to know who's using
>the repeater, and whether or not they have an amateur license--
>particularly if they use the autopatch, since that's third party
>traffic. As the trustee, I'm the first one to whom the FCC would
>send a notice of violation if the autopatch is abused.
The same applies to the kerchunkers. Is it really so hard to say
"OH3BK testing" if you just want to know that you can hit a particular
repeater.
>
>I also agree with the person who speculated that the trustee is
>usually busy programming exciting new voice-synthesizer chips so
>that the repeater can sound like a rock-jock. We had that
>problem on a local club repeater here in Juneau. The talking
>sandpile got to be so irritating that another group of us started
>our own repeater. *Our repeater* has no annoying voice
>announcements, and no "courtesy" tones. No beeps, no pops, no
>whistles--just human voices, with all their frailties. We also
>have a fragmented club, with those who like to listen to
>synthesized voice on their repeater, and those who don't...
> .......Oh, the price of progress!
Isn't it nice to have *an own repeater*? BTW if it was the club
repeater wasn't it possible to get the users' opinions heard at
the annual meeting? I personally think a repeater is too small and
unimportant a thing to start the famous "Club Wars". However, I
agree with your opinion on the bells and whistles: the less the
better. The meaning of a repeater is to enhance mobile communications,
all additional features are more or less caused by regulators or
individuals with idle minds...:-)
BTW when we young guns got tired of the bad repeater and the OF trustee
ten years ago, we moved to simplex. There are no bells and whistles
either...:-)
>
>Another observation: It seems to be much easier to find folks to
>program the talking chips than to find someone with experience in
>RF who can keep the repeater working up to spec, or someone
>willing to climb the tower to do maintenance & repair on the
>antenna! Ever notice how many two-meter repeaters have
>noticeable desense? They're called alligators--huge mouth, very
>small ears. Now to get rid of the occasional intermod......
True, true, true! But usually the people with basic knowledge on
duplex radio systems do things that are much more interesting and
technically challenging than a phone repeater...:-) After all, they
invented it in the '40s, it's a piece of cake to put up a repeater,
or is it? And if you notify a trustee with a desense problem (yes,
with a little experience you can hear it if you listen to a mobile
with a weak signal, the noise sounds different and the fading is
different) you usually get: "It works well enough, I have full quieting
all the way commuting home from work. Besides, we don't have the time,
money and equipment to make it better." And that is just what you get
from me if you ever complain of our machines...:-)
Besides, think of the positive side-effects of repeater desense:
isn't it nice that the drunkie OF from the neighbouring town can't
hit the repeater any more?
>
>Keep smiling.
>Herb Holeman, WL7BIL
>Juneau, Alaska
>js...@alaska.bitnet
I try. At least with some additional Band-Aid below the ears at some
of the club meetings :-)
73 de Benjamin OH3BK
Three weeks before moving our club 70 cm machine to a better site
Marc Wiz
time try listening to a few of the two meter machines in the southern
California areas.
During the bad times of the late 70's and early 80's there were some
very entertaining (albeit sad) QSO's going on 146.61 and 147.435
They ranged from bootleggers to personal attacks, from drunks to
extra maritial affairs. The list goes on and on.
Marc Wiz MaBell (512)838-4780
WA6HBR
Yes that really is my last name.
The views expressed are my own.
ma...@aixwiz.austin.ibm.com
or
uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ibmchs!auschs!ekhomeni.austin.ibm.com!marc
Roger Bly
>During the bad times of the late 70's and early 80's there were some
>very entertaining (albeit sad) QSO's going on 146.61 and 147.435
>They ranged from bootleggers to personal attacks, from drunks to
>extra maritial affairs. The list goes on and on.
>
>Marc Wiz
I have fond memories of operating on those two machines in the early 80's.
Bootlegging, jamming, bizzar discussions, personal attacks, arguments are
among the things I like best about radio. On a good night, it takes
2-3 Kw ERP or a properly located remote base to get into the 147.435 machine.
I believe this type of competetiveness is healthy for AR and has done
wonders for the advancement of VHF amplifier and remote base technology
in the Los Angeles area.
I also enjoyed the operating style in the "war zone" 7.250-7.260 Mhz.
There you could (and still can) have a conversation about anything.
Everyone uses VOX (no "push-to-talk" allowed) and the conversation goes
back and forth very quickly just as if your talking with a group of people
in a room. Call signs are used sparingly.
In addition, I believe that operators accustomed to dealing with interference,
congestion, and jamming are better prepared for disaster operations.
Bringing jamming technology into the 90's,
Roger Bly Jr. (ka6mwt)
Brooktree Corp
UUCP: ...!ucsd!btree!bly
Marc Wiz
> I have fond memories of operating on those two machines in the early 80's.
> Bootlegging, jamming, bizzar discussions, personal attacks, arguments are
> among the things I like best about radio. On a good night, it takes
> 2-3 Kw ERP or a properly located remote base to get into the 147.435 machine.
> I believe this type of competetiveness is healthy for AR and has done
> wonders for the advancement of VHF amplifier and remote base technology
> in the Los Angeles area.
I remember that things were fairly quiet during the day and one could
usually rely on being able to talk during the morning commute.
But once the evening commute began, things started getting out of
hand.
As Roger said, it would take quite a bit of ERP to get into .435 which
meant either a big amp (your run of the mill Mirage just wouldn't cut
it) and a beam or a remote base.
Of course there were a couple of times when a remote would come up on
the repeater output ...
Marc Wiz MaBell (512)838-4780
Gr|nlund Pentti
>> Bootlegging, jamming, bizzar discussions, personal attacks, arguments are
>> among the things I like best about radio. On a good night, it takes
>> 2-3 Kw ERP or a properly located remote base to get into the 147.435 machine.
I always thought the FCC were quite strict when dealing with these third
party and unattended kind of things. Did they have an unlimited supply of
people willing to become trustees after the current one had his or her
license revoked?
I would like to know what became of these ex-hams? Are they now "The Shaky
Town Bootleg and Jammer Assn."?
And of what use is a repeater if it takes you kilowatts of erp to hit it?
Use simplex, man...
Benjamin OH3BK
Perry Scott
>2-3 Kw ERP or a properly located remote base to get into the 147.435 machine.
>wonders for the advancement of VHF amplifier and remote base technology
>in the Los Angeles area.
Sometimes these guys miss the repeater in LA and bring up repeaters in
Denver (which doesn't even have a 147.435 machine). Who says that 2
meters isn't a DX band ?
Perry / AA0ET
Roger Bly
>> I have fond memories of operating on those two machines in the early 80's.
>> Bootlegging, jamming, bizzar discussions, personal attacks, arguments are
>> among the things I like best about radio. On a good night, it takes
>> 2-3 Kw ERP or a properly located remote base to get into the 147.435 machine.
>I always thought the FCC were quite strict when dealing with these third
>party and unattended kind of things. Did they have an unlimited supply of
>people willing to become trustees after the current one had his or her
>license revoked?
The FCC has never revoked or suspended a repeater trustee's license in the
Los Angles area to my knowledge. However, in the 1980's and currently,
trustees and operators do receive warning letters (not notices to "show cause").
These letters have no legal significance and appear to be an FCC reflex to
any complaint letter they recieve from the public. The FCC seems to be most
concerned with "unidentified operators" and "obscene language" (what ever
that is).
It appears that the FCC is phasing out its enforcement and adminstration of
the ham bands. They have stated several times that they want the ham bands
to be self policing. Moves toward VEC exams, private repeater coordinating
groups, etc. support this. Probably the only time a ham will hear from
the FCC is if he/she is interfering with a commercial communications service.
>I would like to know what became of these ex-hams? Are they now "The Shaky
>Town Bootleg and Jammer Assn."?
There aren't too many ex-hams. A few of the unidentified voices now have
callsigns and a few of the hams who were busted are on the repeaters
without callsigns. I think there still is a "Southern California
Jamming Association (SCJA)".
>And of what use is a repeater if it takes you kilowatts of erp to hit it?
>Use simplex, man...
The purpose is not simply to "hit" the repeater. These "ERP wars" only occur
on a designated repeater (currently 147.435) and are competitive in nature.
In Los Angles, it has evolved to be similar to a race track. A place where
people test out and show off their amplifiers, antennas, duplexers, etc.
with out harming others. Some say this violates the "minimum power needed"
section of part 97, but I don't think so, and the FCC won't take a stand.
There are some interesting legal issues having to do with repeater
coordination in Los Angles and San Diego. If a conflict arises between
two repeaters on the same frequency pair, the FCC will not touch it.
They leave this to the local coordinating group. Some of these groups
are not very good at mediation which leads to repeater owners settling
there coordination/interfecence dispute in a civil case.
Roger Bly Jr.
Brooktree Corp.
...!ucsd!btree!bly
Steve Wilson x2580 dept303
>stuff deleted...
>It appears that the FCC is phasing out its enforcement and adminstration of
>the ham bands. They have stated several times that they want the ham bands
>to be self policing. Moves toward VEC exams, private repeater coordinating
>groups, etc. support this. Probably the only time a ham will hear from
>the FCC is if he/she is interfering with a commercial communications service.
This is an assumption that is incorrect. While it is true
that FCC has most recently cracked down on folks causing interference
to other services, etc. They are also still quite active in dealing
with problems that our self-policing efforts can't manage. You mention
that the FCC has stated that they want hams to be "self-policing."
This is more a matter of our own traditions over the last 75 years.
More appropriately the FCC appreciates the efforts extended by
amateurs to police themselves via peer pressure thus keeping the
FCC out of the picture if possible.
Back to the point at hand...I know of two instances personally where
the commission was asked to step in cuz the self-policing didn't
work, with the commision being more than willing to step
in as required. These two instances occured within the last two
years. As for when someone can expect to hear from the commission...
just ask the 200 or so fellows who operated out of the U.S.
phone bands during a recent DXpedition operation and got notices
from the commision. The FCC monitoring system is still quite
alive and well.
Certainly the FCC is understaffed, and over-worked(aren't we
all ;-) and they nominally appreciate the help we render
by off-loading some responsiblities (such as license testing)
in the management of our service. But I have not seen any
indication that they (the FCC) are planning on abandoning
responsibility for management of the Amateur service in the
U.S. The facts just don't bare this out.
>
> stuff deleted about repeater wars in L.A.
>
>Roger Bly Jr.
Steve Wilson KA6S