Ximenean rules??
2eyq...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
Is anyone familiar with the origin of the phrase "Ximenean rules"? (sp?)
I saw the term on a cryptic spec sheet, and I understand that it refers to
a set of guidelines for constructing bar-style grids. I was just curious
if where the term originated. Is it a person's name. Or is, perhaps, Ximenea
a place--some remote emirate where the populace spends its time writing laws
for cruciverbal anarchists?
Ross Beresford
:
: Is anyone familiar with the origin of the phrase "Ximenean rules"? (sp?)
Ximines was the pseudonym of Derrick Somerset Macnutt, who preceded Azed
in the British Sunday paper "The Observer". He invented the idea of
clueing competitions (AFAIK) and through those, and his books, encouraged
more formality and discipline in the composition of crosswords.
The Ximinean rules you mention are those for the construction of barred
grid puzzles, which suggest that unches (unchecked letters in lights)
should lie within the following ranges:
3 letter lights - 0 unches
4-5 letter lights - 1 unch
6-7 letter lights - 1-2 unches
8-9 letter lights - 2-3 unches
10-12 letter lights - 3-4 unches
This basically codifies the fact that the solver shouldn't be given too
little help (e.g. 6 letter lights shouldn't have 3 unchecked letters), but
equally shouldn't be given too much help (fully checked words longer than
3 letters).
He also recommended particular numbers and lengths of lights for particular
grid sizes. The Chambers Crossword Manual goes into this in more depth.
Ximinean can also be applied to clue writing, and you will hear of setters
being strict Ximinean or non-Ximinean. My understanding is that this mainly
turns on the accuracy and grammar of cryptic indicators in a clue: Ximinean
cluers put accuracy and grammar first, while non-Ximinean cluers are liable
to bend or break the rules to achieve a particular effect.
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Matthew Faupel
Ximenes was one of the earliest crossword compilers of British cryptic
crosswords (for the Times I believe). He came up with some guidelines for
how to compose cryptic clues, some of which were posted to this newsgroup
early in its lifetime, until someone pointed out that they were under
copyright. Perhaps these are the Ximenean rules...
Matthew
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Roy.Thearle
>
> I seem to remember reading that AZED, successor to Ximenes (who succeeded
> Torquemada at the Observer) took the name because it was a reversal of
> Deza, who was next in line to Ximenes (the inquisitor). Am I making this up?
If you are, you're not doing it very well. Paraphrased from memory from
"The AZED book af Crosswords":
Torquemada took his name from the grand inquisitor of the
Spanish inquisition; Ximenes took his name from the original
Torquemada's immediate successor. However, none of the other
grand inquisitors had interesting names, being the Spanish
equivalent of Smith or Brown, except for Don Diego de Deza,
whose name in reverse creates an appropriate effect.
Roy
Stephen Wilcox
Ximenes used to set crosswords for a British newspaper/magazine.
The Listener I think. The original Ximenes was a Spanish
Inquisitor. There was another setter called Torquemada
(originally a Spanish Inquistor too) and in crosswords Torquemada
replaced Ximenes (or vice versa) just as in the Spanish
Inquisition Torquemada unexpectedly replaced Ximenes. (But no-one
expects the Spanish Inquis.... Oh well.)
Which gives me an excuse to mention a nice clue from yesterday's
`Guardian', set by Araucaria (who else?)
Cor! (6,4)
FRENCH HORN
------
Stephen Wilcox ** Research is 5% inspiration
wil...@maths.ox.ac.uk ** and 95% desperation.
David Michael Tuller
I believe it refers to Ximenes which was a pseudonym for a British cryptic
constructor.
David M. Tuller
tul...@rpi.edu
Iain G Liddell
>In article <1994Jan26.1...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> 2eyq...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>>
>>Is anyone familiar with the origin of the phrase "Ximenean rules"? (sp?)
>>
>>I saw the term on a cryptic spec sheet, and I understand that it refers to
>>a set of guidelines for constructing bar-style grids. I was just curious
>>if where the term originated. Is it a person's name. Or is, perhaps, Ximenea
>>a place--some remote emirate where the populace spends its time writing laws
>>for cruciverbal anarchists?
>
>
>Ximenes used to set crosswords for a British newspaper/magazine.
>The Listener I think. The original Ximenes was a Spanish
The Observer, as previously observed.
>Inquisitor. There was another setter called Torquemada
>(originally a Spanish Inquistor too) and in crosswords Torquemada
>replaced Ximenes (or vice versa) just as in the Spanish
>Inquisition Torquemada unexpectedly replaced Ximenes. (But no-one
>expects the Spanish Inquis.... Oh well.)
>
I seem to remember reading that AZED, successor to Ximenes (who succeeded
Torquemada at the Observer) took the name because it was a reversal of
Deza, who was next in line to Ximenes (the inquisitor). Am I making this up?
Incidentally, is D S MacNutt's book still around?
Iain
William Tunstall-Pedoe
>
> Incidentally, is D S MacNutt's book still around?
>
> Iain
Ximenes on the art of Crossword (D.S.MacNutt) is the book you are
referring to presumably. It is unfortunately out of print and very
old (1967?) but is the main reference for the Ximenean rules that
this thread is referring to.
I managed to get my hands on a copy and read it last week and it is
definitely worthwhile if you have any interest in composing cryptics.
I think his rules about what is fair and unfair in clues are almost
universally accepted. Possible exceptions are his aversion to
indirect anagrams and clues where the cryptic reading is ungrammatical.
An example he gives is using "I am" for "'I' is" and says this
should be avoided by using "I must be" or "One is". This rule in
particular seems to be regularly broken in modern puzzles.
- William
Patrick Wiseman
Manley, who composes crosswords for the Manchester Guardian as Pasquale
(and for other papers as others).
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Ted Schuerzinger
> Cor! (6,4)
Not to give the answer away, but doesn't this fall under the category of
not using foreign words in cryptics? I remember that I got a very low
score in the once net clue-writing competition where I tried to use a
foreign word....
--Ted Schuerzinger
Finance Director, Dartmouth Broadcasting
Fe...@Dartmouth.EDU
No .sigs need apply
William Tunstall-Pedoe
>In article <1994Jan27....@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>
>wil...@maths.ox.ac.uk (Stephen Wilcox) writes:
>
>> Cor! (6,4)
>
>Not to give the answer away, but doesn't this fall under the category of
>not using foreign words in cryptics? I remember that I got a very low
>score in the once net clue-writing competition where I tried to use a
>foreign word....
>
I think the composer might partly be excused in this case by the fact
that there is an 'English' phrase 'Cor anglais' which would be discovered
if you looked up 'Cor' in a dictionary (if you didn't think of it anyway).
Thinking about this phrase and what it means might well give you the
answer even with only very minimal knowledge of foreign words.
Ted Schuerzinger
wt...@newton.cam.ac.uk (William Tunstall-Pedoe) writes:
Actually, I don't use any reference sources when I work on crosswords, so
had I seen this in a published cryptic, I wouldn't have looked it up.
However, following your advice, I looked up "cor" in Dartmouth's online
dictionary (AHD Second College Edition), and "cor anglais" did not appear.
The only phrase with "cor" in it was:
Word: cor pul*mo*na*le
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: A heart disease characterized by hypertrophy of the right
ventricle that is caused by an obstruction in pulmonary circulation.
Etymology: New Latin, pulmonary heart.
Perhaps "cor anglais" is a peculiarly British phrase?
William Tunstall-Pedoe
>In article <1994Feb1.2...@infodev.cam.ac.uk>
>wt...@newton.cam.ac.uk (William Tunstall-Pedoe) writes:
>
>> In article <2ik3co$2...@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> fe...@Dartmouth.EDU (Ted Schuerzinger) writes:
>> >In article <1994Jan27....@inca.comlab.ox.ac.uk>
>> >wil...@maths.ox.ac.uk (Stephen Wilcox) writes:
>> >
>> >> Cor! (6,4)
>> >
>> >Not to give the answer away, but doesn't this fall under the category of
>> >not using foreign words in cryptics? I remember that I got a very low
>> >score in the once net clue-writing competition where I tried to use a
>> >foreign word....
>> >
>> I think the composer might partly be excused in this case by the fact
>> that there is an 'English' phrase 'Cor anglais' which would be discovered
>> if you looked up 'Cor' in a dictionary (if you didn't think of it anyway).
>> Thinking about this phrase and what it means might well give you the
>> answer even with only very minimal knowledge of foreign words.
>
>However, following your advice, I looked up "cor" in Dartmouth's online
>dictionary (AHD Second College Edition), and "cor anglais" did not appear.
> The only phrase with "cor" in it was:
>
>Word: cor pul*mo*na*le
>Part of Speech: noun
>Definition: A heart disease characterized by hypertrophy of the right
>ventricle that is caused by an obstruction in pulmonary circulation.
>Etymology: New Latin, pulmonary heart.
>
>Perhaps "cor anglais" is a peculiarly British phrase?
>
I was being a little vague in my response so as not to spoil the clue
if anybody was trying to solve it. However you can only explain a clue
up to a point without doing that. A Cor Anglais is an orchestral
instrument. I would be surprised if it was called anything else
in the States (but it may be). I believe it is French for
"English Horn". I won't say anymore other than that I too
think it is a great clue (even if it does fall a little outside
normal categories).
Ted Schuerzinger
wt...@newton.cam.ac.uk (William Tunstall-Pedoe) writes:
> I was being a little vague in my response so as not to spoil the clue
> if anybody was trying to solve it. However you can only explain a clue
> up to a point without doing that. A Cor Anglais is an orchestral
> instrument. I would be surprised if it was called anything else
> in the States (but it may be). I believe it is French for
> "English Horn".
Yes, "Cor anglais" is French for "English Horn". However, here in the US
that particular instrument is called the "English Horn". That's why I
hadn't heard the phrase before. I'm assuming that in Britain it's
referred to as a "cor anglais"? I suppose this is also a lot like the
difference between eggplant vs. aubergine and a bunch of others (there's a
thread about the differences between British and US usage over on
alt.usage.english if you should like to read it...).
--Ted Schuerzinger
Finance Director, Dartmouth Broadcasting
Fe...@Dartmouth.EDU
Warning: The Surgeon General has determined that thinking I'm an official
spokesman of either Dartmouth College or Dartmouth College Bowl may be
hazardous to your health.
robert.d.marcus
You mean the answer isn't "blimey mate" ?
Bob