Technical & legal background using copyrighted fonts in custom road signs in PowerPoint

[Chaya Eve]

Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?

Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)

Specifically on the technical, I just want to embed the font into PPT 2007:
A. When I modify a multi-page PowerPoint with custom signs, it looks good.
B. But when I send that PowerPoint to neighbors the fonts are all jumbled.
C. I have "RoadGeek 2005 Series B" TT fonts, but I can't expect them to
load fonts so I just want the font to be embedded inside the the editable
Powerpoint file (where everyone has Powerpoint on either a Mac or Windows).
http://texaphoto.com/fonts/roadgeek-2005-series-3-b.html

Specifically on the legal, I just want to be legally correct:
a. This page tries to explain the legal requirements.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/download/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3
b. It says something about "css" notifications as shown below.
[quote]
Using @import CSS directive, put the following line in add to your css
file.(http | https)@import
url(//db.onlinewebfonts.com/c/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3?family=Roadgeek+2005+Series+B);
[/quote]
c. I have no idea what that means in terms of the editable PowerPoint 2007.

In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?

--
Note that PDF is not in the picture, nor are screenshots, as the need is to
edit this Powerpoint 2007 file forever over time as needed by various
individuals.

[nospam]

In article <ooukja$p93$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)

rtfm

> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)

consult with a licensed attorney in your area.

> Specifically on the technical, I just want to embed the font into PPT 2007:
> A. When I modify a multi-page PowerPoint with custom signs, it looks good.
> B. But when I send that PowerPoint to neighbors the fonts are all jumbled.

then you fucked up.

> C. I have "RoadGeek 2005 Series B" TT fonts, but I can't expect them to
> load fonts so I just want the font to be embedded inside the the editable
> Powerpoint file (where everyone has Powerpoint on either a Mac or Windows).
> http://texaphoto.com/fonts/roadgeek-2005-series-3-b.html
>
> Specifically on the legal, I just want to be legally correct:

that's a first.

> a. This page tries to explain the legal requirements.
> https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/download/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3

no it doesn't.

there's a contact link at that site. ask them what is required.

[Tim]

Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote in
news:ooukja$p93$1...@gioia.aioe.org:

> Can you help with technical and legal background information on how
> to use a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and
> printers?
>
> Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)
>

> In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
> Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit,
> and, Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in
> PPT 2007?
>

I have no idea about how to embed a font in a PowerPoint presentation
since it is about ten years since I worked with it.

As far as the legality is concerned, the real issue is 'Is this going to
produce income for me/for the entity I work for/for the customer I am
creating this for? I am assuming you downloaded this font for free. If
so, there is an implied consent to use it in any of your work product, as
long as there is no income to you or because of your work using that
font. So, if you want to use this particular font in a commercial
product, you are required to contact the copyright holder and receive
permission to do so. They may grant it gratis, or they may ask for a fee
of some sort. That is up to them.

As for the details, the creator of the intellectual property, in this
case a font, is defacto the copyright holder of that property, which
means they hold all rights to its use, and can expect fair compensation
for its use in a commercial product. Most of the time in a situation like
this the owner will include reference something like the Creative Commons
copyright statement, which explicitly states allowable uses and
conditions for use. Granted, some creators don't understant the whole IP
issue, and others don't care, they just want to show off their work, and
their compensation is the fact that someone else is using it.

This comes to the real issue with imbedding the font. By doing so you are
distributing the IP of the creator without their permission, unless they
have granted it as part of the download process. It may seem like
splitting hairs, but if instead of imbedding the font, you make it clear
that the recipient needs to download the font themselves in order to make
your work product work properly. To further confuse the issue, since you
are doing this as part of your compensated employment, it could
conceivably be argued that you are receiveing compensation for the use of
this font, and should be obtaining the permission of the copyright holder
for its use, even if you don't distribute it to anyone else. That is
pushing the envelope, but I think it is a valid point.

All of the above is my admittedly non-professional understanding of
Intellectual Property rights as applied to this situation. I am sure I am
wrong somewhere inside of these statements, and that others here will
correct me, hopefully in a kindly fashion.

As always, this advice is worth what you paid for it, and for a
completely accurate answer to your second question you should contact an
expert in Intellectual Property law and the rights therein.

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <ooukja$p93$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
> a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?
>
> Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)
>

I can't answer the first. The second depends entirely on the end-user
license agreement of the font in question. Some allow embedding; others
do not.

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 21:51:05 +0100, Good Guy <Hello...@Example.com>
wrote:

> This is a Windows 10 newsgroup,

It's also a Mac newsgroup where the problem is that the Macs can't handle
fonts as well as Windows does (and where some users are on the Mac).

"First off, if you use a Mac version of Office, you can skip the rest of
this page. Mac PowerPoint can't embed fonts, and it can't use fonts that
have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint. That's a real pity
and a real impediment to cross-platform compatibility."
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

But embedding fonts on Windows is also sometimes problematic.

"Next, if you're trying to embed OpenType (OTF) fonts, see You cannot embed
an Adobe OpenType font in a document in an Office program. Note that this
applies to fonts with an .OTF extension. Some fonts will appear in Control
Panel | Fonts with an "O" icon and identify themselves as OpenType, but
will have a .TTF extension."

This question will require someone who knows what they're talking about,
and not someone with an opinion (which everyone has) about fonts so it's
best that you and that nospam clod just leave the conversation sooner
rather than later.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 18:59:14 GMT, Tim <onely...@gmail.com> wrote:

> As far as the legality is concerned, the real issue is 'Is this going to
> produce income for me/for the entity I work for/for the customer I am
> creating this for?

No income whatsoever. It's just a set of custom private property signs
befitting of California Penal Code 602L (e.g., 2-inch letters, greater than
one square foot in area, etc.).

> I am assuming you downloaded this font for free.

Yup.

> This comes to the real issue with imbedding the font. By doing so you are
> distributing the IP of the creator without their permission, unless they
> have granted it as part of the download process.

Interesting observation where I can add a text to the last page of the
PowerPoint documentation, but it's not going to show up on the sign itself.

> It may seem like
> splitting hairs, but if instead of imbedding the font, you make it clear
> that the recipient needs to download the font themselves in order to make
> your work product work properly.

I understand what you're saying. It's too much work for others but if those
are the rules, then those are the rules.

At the moment, I just want to embed the font into PowerPoint and then let
others do what they want with the document since we have a printer who will
print them for us for free at the local high school.

Since the school is involved, I just want the legality to be covered even
as there is no cost and this is part of the projects for the kids.

Thanks for your observations!

[nospam]

In article <oov1ri$1ejv$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

>
> > This is a Windows 10 newsgroup,
>
> It's also a Mac newsgroup where the problem is that the Macs can't handle
> fonts as well as Windows does (and where some users are on the Mac).

nonsense. macs set the standard for font handling.

also, true type fonts were a collaboration between apple and microsoft
to compete with adobe.

you've also confirmed that you're nothing more than a troll, not that
there was any doubt.

> "First off, if you use a Mac version of Office, you can skip the rest of
> this page. Mac PowerPoint can't embed fonts, and it can't use fonts that
> have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint. That's a real pity
> and a real impediment to cross-platform compatibility."
> http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

that is specific to powerpoint, not mac os.

there are other presentation apps, including ones that *aren't*
available on windows.

> But embedding fonts on Windows is also sometimes problematic.
>
> "Next, if you're trying to embed OpenType (OTF) fonts, see You cannot embed
> an Adobe OpenType font in a document in an Office program. Note that this
> applies to fonts with an .OTF extension. Some fonts will appear in Control
> Panel | Fonts with an "O" icon and identify themselves as OpenType, but
> will have a .TTF extension."

so windows isn't as good as you claim.

what a surprise. not.

> This question will require someone who knows what they're talking about,
> and not someone with an opinion (which everyone has) about fonts so it's
> best that you and that nospam clod just leave the conversation sooner
> rather than later.

it's best that you troll elsewhere.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-08 19:21:06 +0000, Andre G. Isaak said:
> In article <ooukja$p93$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
>> a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?
>>
>> Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
>> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
>> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)
>
> I can't answer the first. The second depends entirely on the end-user
> license agreement of the font in question. Some allow embedding; others
> do not.

In terms of just embedding fonts, you can sometimes get around that by
changing the text using those fonts to outlines (e.g. in Adobe
Illustrator or InDesign) or creating a bitmap image of the text (e.g.
in Adobe Photoshop or any graphics appliction). InDesign specifically
warns you that you can't embed some fonts when trying to create a PDF
using them.

BUT it may still be against the font's license agreement to do even
that. As always, you have to carefully read all the smallprint, but the
problem is that it's often buried in so much legalese that it's
near-impossible for any normal person to understand it. :-\


I don't know, but creating a bitmap image of the text may be the only
way to "embed" the font into a PowerPoint presentation. It was
certainly the only way to add text using fancy fonts to webpages before
"web fonts" came along.

[Lewis]

In message <oov1ri$1ejv$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 21:51:05 +0100, Good Guy <Hello...@Example.com>
> wrote:

>> This is a Windows 10 newsgroup,

> It's also a Mac newsgroup where the problem is that the Macs can't handle
> fonts as well as Windows does (and where some users are on the Mac).

Delusional much?

> "First off, if you use a Mac version of Office, you can skip the rest of
> this page. Mac PowerPoint can't embed fonts, and it can't use fonts that
> have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint. That's a real pity
> and a real impediment to cross-platform compatibility."

Microsoft always finds a way to shitify their software. This has nothing
to do with the Mac, only with Microsoft's incompetence.

--
<http://www.pvponline.com/comic/2004/01/14/wed-jan-14/>

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 13:21:06 -0600, "Andre G. Isaak" <agi...@gm.invalid>
wrote:

> The second depends entirely on the end-user
> license agreement of the font in question. Some allow embedding; others
> do not.

As stated in the OP, the font is a standard free font for road signs.
And, as stated in the OP, the question is a specific question of that font.

Specifically "Roadgeek 2005 Series B", as stated in the OP:
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/download/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3

As explained there, the "license" line simply says:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact"

And as explained there, the "trademark" line simply says:
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

There is a trademark line:
"Roadgeek 2005 Series B is a trademark of Michael D. Adams."

I can find no contact information for this Mr. Adams.
There is nothing about embedding that I can find anywhere on the net.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:32:45 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> In terms of just embedding fonts, you can sometimes get around that by
> changing the text using those fonts to outlines (e.g. in Adobe
> Illustrator or InDesign) or creating a bitmap image of the text (e.g.
> in Adobe Photoshop or any graphics appliction). InDesign specifically
> warns you that you can't embed some fonts when trying to create a PDF
> using them.

If necessary, outlines should work because we are only going to print to
plastic cutouts to lay on the 12"x18" steel sign surface.

> BUT it may still be against the font's license agreement to do even
> that. As always, you have to carefully read all the smallprint, but the
> problem is that it's often buried in so much legalese that it's
> near-impossible for any normal person to understand it. :-\

Since "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" is a common free font for road signs, the
"small print" is almost non existent. The font is freely available
everywhere, where a simple search turns it up in scores of web sites.

But nowhere is the license agreement in the least complex.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek

The license says:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright

notifications remain intact."

The copyright says:
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

> I don't know, but creating a bitmap image of the text may be the only
> way to "embed" the font into a PowerPoint presentation. It was
> certainly the only way to add text using fancy fonts to webpages before
> "web fonts" came along.

I understand that you're saying to use a bitmat block image (picture) of
the text in PowerPoint that is distributed.

But how is that done?

Is there a button to convert fonts to bitmap in PowerPoint?

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:41:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

> Microsoft always finds a way to shitify their software. This has nothing
> to do with the Mac, only with Microsoft's incompetence.

You two clueless clods have already proven you know nothing about the topic.

As stated prior it's best that you and that nospam clueless clod just leave
the conversation sooner rather than later because this isn't about your pet
peeves.

The question is about:
Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.
Q2: Complying with the legal agreement that the copyright remain intact.

Embedding a font into Windows PowerPoint 2007 is described here:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

The line of interest on embedding in that summary is:
"You can embed any TrueType font ... if they do not have license
restrictions."

An embedding problem we need to solve is described here:
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

The line of interest on embedding in that summary is:
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been

embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

The second question is complying with the legal agreement.
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

The line of interest in the legal agreement is:
"The license is freeware, non commercial."

Despite you having whooshed on the question, the question was clear.

Since you have already proven you know absolutely nothing of the topic,
it's best that you two clueless clods leave the conversation sooner rather
than later.

[Mayayana]

"Chaya Eve" <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote

| The license says:
| "This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
| notifications remain intact."
|
| The copyright says:
| "Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."
|
| So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?
|

I would interpret that to mean that you need to
include a copy of the license when you distribute the
font. I have a number like that, which I've downloaded
from font sites.
I wouldn't worry about crediting inside the PPT. But if
you want to be respectful and play it safe, you could
distribute the font and license along with the PPT, and
include an attribution, like:

Thank you to Michael D. Adams for use of the XYZ
font. This file is included to accomodate his licensing
terms.
XYF font is Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005.
All rights reserved.

If you do that then you can also solve the embedding
problem. The down side would be that your recipients
would need to install the font.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:38:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
> Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
> Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?

This is not a question for clueless clods such as Goodguy, Lewis, & nospam.

To clarify the font issue for non-commercial use in road signs,
much has been written about the subject of choosing roadsign fonts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html

The current standard USA sign font is (still) Gothic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Gothic

More than a decade ago the choice was either Gothic or Clearview:
https://typographica.org/on-typography/clearview-a-new-typeface-for-us-highways/

Where Clearview began to be phased in around 2002:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_(typeface)

However Clearview was discontinued due to issues:
http://news.averydennison.com/blog/highway-safety/highway-font-refuses-die

Today, the best public font for road signs is:
https://store.typenetwork.com/foundry/fontbureau/series/interstate

However, that font is not a free font; but legally free fonts exist.
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek

Specifically I have chosen the free "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" narrow font:
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Download the desired free font ("Roadside Series B Regular") here:
https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/download/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3

Determine the license agreement, where the license says:
"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact."

The copyright notification says:
"Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

Look up how to embed the fonts into Windows PowerPoint 2007:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

Check for compatibility issues with Mac PowerPoint 2007:
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:

"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

The line of interest in the copyright notice is:

"This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
notifications remain intact"

The questions, as stated in the original post, are only about:

[Savageduck]

On Sep 8, 2017, Chaya Eve wrote
(in article <oovfhu$1ve8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:32:45 +1200, Your Name<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> > In terms of just embedding fonts, you can sometimes get around that by
> > changing the text using those fonts to outlines (e.g. in Adobe
> > Illustrator or InDesign) or creating a bitmap image of the text (e.g.
> > in Adobe Photoshop or any graphics appliction). InDesign specifically
> > warns you that you can't embed some fonts when trying to create a PDF
> > using them.
>
> If necessary, outlines should work because we are only going to print to
> plastic cutouts to lay on the 12"x18" steel sign surface.
>
> > BUT it may still be against the font's license agreement to do even
> > that. As always, you have to carefully read all the smallprint, but the
> > problem is that it's often buried in so much legalese that it's
> > near-impossible for any normal person to understand it. :-\
>
> Since "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" is a common free font for road signs, the
> "small print" is almost non existent. The font is freely available
> everywhere, where a simple search turns it up in scores of web sites.
>
> But nowhere is the license agreement in the least complex.
> https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek

Digging through that site I find the following related to use of this font in
web sites:
First the licence is a Creative Commons “BY” license which only demands
attribution.

The manner of attribution for a web site is to include the following:
“http://www.onlinewebfonts.com <font> by Michael D. Adams is licensed by
CC BY 3.0"

>
> The license says:
> "This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
> notifications remain intact."

That sounds pretty specific. However, this download site states; “License:
unknown” and is less specific than the onlinewebfonts.com license.
<http://www.fontpalace.com/font-details/Roadgeek+2005+Series+B/>

So that site fails to meet the minimum CC BY 3.0 license requirement.

>
> The copyright says:
> "Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."

That seems to be the simplest statement of attribution, and the only
requirement of the Collective Commons “BY” 3.0 license.

>
> So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

To cover all bases to be within the spirit of the CC license, I would add a
CYA page to your Power Point presentation which states the following, or
words to that effect:
Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005. All Rights
Reserved. License CC by.”

>
> > I don't know, but creating a bitmap image of the text may be the only
> > way to "embed" the font into a PowerPoint presentation. It was
> > certainly the only way to add text using fancy fonts to webpages before
> > "web fonts" came along.
>
> I understand that you're saying to use a bitmat block image (picture) of
> the text in PowerPoint that is distributed.
>
> But how is that done?
>
> Is there a button to convert fonts to bitmap in PowerPoint?

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Davoud]

Good Guy:

> > This is a Windows 10 newsgroup,

Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
> It's also a Mac newsgroup where the problem is that the Macs can't handle
> fonts as well as Windows does (and where some users are on the Mac).

> "First off, if you use a Mac version of Office, you can skip the rest of
> this page. Mac PowerPoint can't embed fonts, and it can't use fonts that

> have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint....

It's quite a stretch to say that Macs can't handle fonts as well as
Windows! Apple (inventor of desktop publishing *and* of TrueType fonts,
the basis for Open Type) is not to blame because MS crippled the Mac
versions of their office suite. They had to; if MSOffice for the
superior Mac OS had all the features of the Windows version that would
be the end of Windows in the enterprise.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 21:54:27 -0400, Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

> I would interpret that to mean that you need to
> include a copy of the license when you distribute the
> font. I have a number like that, which I've downloaded
> from font sites.

I interpret that the same, so it's easily enough done to add a page to the
multi-page PowerPoint presentation stating what Savageduck kindly also
suggested:

"Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005."

> I wouldn't worry about crediting inside the PPT.

That's exactly the question!

I can't see any other way to credit the copyright other than the way that
Savageduck suggested, which is to add a page at the end crediting the
copyright owner.

> But if
> you want to be respectful and play it safe, you could

> distribute the font and license along with the PPT.

As explained in the OP, the intent is to "embed" the font into the
PowerPoint.

This is easy to do on Windows but there's a question of how to do it on the
Mac given this reference:

http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:

"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been

embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

Are there any Mac knowledgeable people on this newsgroup who can help?

> If you do that then you can also solve the embedding
> problem. The down side would be that your recipients
> would need to install the font.

As explained in the OP, the goal is to embed the font so that both the Mac
and Windows users can modify the signs before being printed at the school.

It is easy to embed the font into Windows PowerPoint.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

What is needed is a Mac expert who can test embedding the font into his
PowerPoint version to show us how embedding fonts works on the Mac.
http://fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-09 01:18:55 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:32:45 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> <snip>

>> I don't know, but creating a bitmap image of the text may be the only
>> way to "embed" the font into a PowerPoint presentation. It was
>> certainly the only way to add text using fancy fonts to webpages before
>> "web fonts" came along.
>
> I understand that you're saying to use a bitmat block image (picture) of
> the text in PowerPoint that is distributed.
>
> But how is that done?
> Is there a button to convert fonts to bitmap in PowerPoint?

Nope. No button. You'd need to use a graphics application such as
Photoshop, GraphicConverter, etc. to create the image, and then import
that into PowerPoint.

OR,
you could type the text into PowerPoint as normal, so that it remains
editable. Then when the slides no longer need changing, take
screenshots and then delete the text and replace with the cropped
screenshot.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-09 02:52:47 +0000, Davoud said:
> Good Guy:

> Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
>> It's also a Mac newsgroup where the problem is that the Macs can't handle
>> fonts as well as Windows does (and where some users are on the Mac).
>
>> "First off, if you use a Mac version of Office, you can skip the rest of
>> this page. Mac PowerPoint can't embed fonts, and it can't use fonts that
>> have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint....
>
> It's quite a stretch to say that Macs can't handle fonts as well as
> Windows! Apple (inventor of desktop publishing *and* of TrueType fonts,
> the basis for Open Type) is not to blame because MS crippled the Mac
> versions of their office suite. They had to; if MSOffice for the
> superior Mac OS had all the features of the Windows version that would
> be the end of Windows in the enterprise.

You can already ditch Microsloth's garbage and just use Mac with
Apple's Keynote instead (or even one of the other office suite
presentation apps). The problem is that some places don't allow you to
use your own equipment for presentations, so you *have* to have a
PowerPoint file.

Although you can save a PowerPoint file from some of these other
presentation packages, there's no guarantee it will look and work the
same ... mind you, there's no guarantee of that even if you do use
Microsloth apps under Windoze either. :-\

[nospam]

In article <oovlfi$72b$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:
> "Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
> embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."
>
> Are there any Mac knowledgeable people on this newsgroup who can help?

there are quite a few who can, and while i can't speak for others, this
'clueless clod' has zero interest in helping you.

In article <oovj2c$4e2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 19:39:50 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> Digging through that site I find the following related to use of this font in
> web sites:
> First the licence is a Creative Commons ´BY¡ license which only demands
> attribution.

Thank you for finding that information that attribution is all that's
needed to answer the second of the two original questions.

1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint?)

2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)

> The manner of attribution for a web site is to include the following:
> ´http://www.onlinewebfonts.com <font> by Michael D. Adams is licensed by
> CC BY 3.0"

I agree that a simple attribution page is in the spirit of the Creative
Commons license agreement, since distribution isn't by web, but by
PowerPoint embedding.

>> The license says:
>> "This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
>> notifications remain intact."
>
> That sounds pretty specific. However, this download site states; ´License:
> unknown¡ and is less specific than the onlinewebfonts.com license.
> <http://www.fontpalace.com/font-details/Roadgeek+2005+Series+B/>
>
> So that site fails to meet the minimum CC BY 3.0 license requirement.

I think this particular free font is so widely distributed on web sites
that the adherence to license agreements by those web sites is variable.

>>
>> The copyright says:
>> "Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."
>
> That seems to be the simplest statement of attribution, and the only
> requirement of the Collective Commons ´BY¡ 3.0 license.

Thank you for finding and understanding the "collective commons" agreement,
which is new to me so I appreciate your advice.

>>
>> So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?
>
> To cover all bases to be within the spirit of the CC license, I would add a
> CYA page to your Power Point presentation which states the following, or
> words to that effect:
> Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005. All Rights

> Reserved. License CC by.¡

Thank you.

That seems like a good answer to the second question of the two asked!
1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint?)

2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?

Are there Mac experts on this ng who know the answer to the first question?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:03:04 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>> Is there a button to convert fonts to bitmap in PowerPoint?
>
> Nope. No button. You'd need to use a graphics application such as
> Photoshop, GraphicConverter, etc. to create the image, and then import
> that into PowerPoint.

Thanks. I was afraid of that answer.

The goal is only these two questions to be answered:
1. Technical (how do I embed the Roadgeek TT font in PowerPoint?)

2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?

We have the second question answered already for Mac & Windows users.
And we have the first question answered already for Windows users.

Mac experts are needed now to answer the first question for the Mac.

> OR,
> you could type the text into PowerPoint as normal, so that it remains
> editable. Then when the slides no longer need changing, take
> screenshots and then delete the text and replace with the cropped
> screenshot.

The requirement is for editing by both Mac and Windows PPT users.

The only still-open question of the two posed in the OP is how to embed the
Roadgeek 2005 True-Type font into a Mac PowerPoint application given this
is the warning that I found when I searched how Mac users embed fonts.

"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Does anyone on this ng have a Mac to test if fonts can be embedded in PPT?

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:11:02 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> there are quite a few who can, and while i can't speak for others, this
> 'clueless clod' has zero interest in helping you.

Thank you for disappearing.
The sooner you disappear the better it will be for everyone.

The original question was:

1. Technical (how do I embed the Roadgeek TT font in PowerPoint?)

2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?

The only remaining question is how to embed the font in Mac PowerPoint.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 22:52:47 -0400, Davoud <st...@sky.net> wrote:

> It's quite a stretch to say that Macs can't handle fonts as well as
> Windows! Apple (inventor of desktop publishing *and* of TrueType fonts,
> the basis for Open Type) is not to blame because MS crippled the Mac
> versions of their office suite. They had to; if MSOffice for the
> superior Mac OS had all the features of the Windows version that would
> be the end of Windows in the enterprise.

I don't have a Mac. Do you have a Mac?

Did you read this? http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Do you agree or disagree with the statement you are responding to?
"Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts

that have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

If you still disagree, can you tell us how Mac users can embed that font?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 15:09:28 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> You can already ditch Microsloth's garbage and just use Mac with
> Apple's Keynote instead (or even one of the other office suite
> presentation apps). The problem is that some places don't allow you to
> use your own equipment for presentations, so you *have* to have a
> PowerPoint file.
>
> Although you can save a PowerPoint file from some of these other
> presentation packages, there's no guarantee it will look and work the
> same ... mind you, there's no guarantee of that even if you do use
> Microsloth apps under Windoze either. :-\

The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.

The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.

Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

[nospam]

In article <oovn8j$969$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:


> The only remaining question is how to embed the font in Mac PowerPoint.

that question is not remaining. you're just too fucking stupid to
figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
own.

[nospam]

In article <oovn8j$969$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:


> The only remaining question is how to embed the font in Mac PowerPoint.

[nospam]

In article <oovnfl$9ge$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve

<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

>
> I don't have a Mac.

how do you expect to embed fonts into a mac powerpoint presentation
without using a mac?

[Savageduck]

On Sep 8, 2017, Chaya Eve wrote

(in article <oovmel$88m$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

I had a brain fart, it is Creative Commons, not Collective Commons There is
more for you here:
<https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Main_Page>
<https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Best_practices_for_attribution>
<https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Marking_your_work_with_a_CC_license>
<https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/License%20Versions#Licensing_of_BY_and_
BY-NC_adaptations>

>
> > >
> > > So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?
> >
> > To cover all bases to be within the spirit of the CC license, I would add a
> > CYA page to your Power Point presentation which states the following, or
> > words to that effect:
> > Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005. All Rights
> > Reserved. License CC by.¡
>
> Thank you.
>
> That seems like a good answer to the second question of the two asked!
> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint?)

I last used Power Point (Mac & Win) over 10 years ago.

>
> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?

In the case of this specific font, provide the attribution. In the case of
any other copyrighted material, meet the requirements of the specific license
demands.

>
> Are there Mac experts on this ng who know the answer to the first question?

As I said I haven’t used Power Point on a Mac for over 10 years, and since
I retired I have had little reason to use Keynote. So in respect of your
question, I will be of little help.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:41:08 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> how do you expect to embed fonts into a mac powerpoint presentation
> without using a mac?

You fail to comprehend the simplest of statements.

You don't have the skill set nor the intention to answer the question.

The sooner you disappear, the better it will be for everyone.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:37:51 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> that question is not remaining. you're just too fucking stupid to
> figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
> but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
> own.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 23:39:07 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> that question is not remaining. you're just too fucking stupid to
> figure it out. it's actually comically easy, with at least two methods,
> but since you've alienated those who know the answers, you're on your
> own.

[Tim]

Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote in
news:oovfhu$1ve8$1...@gioia.aioe.org:

> On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 10:32:45 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
> wrote:
>
> Since "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" is a common free font for road signs,
> the "small print" is almost non existent. The font is freely available
> everywhere, where a simple search turns it up in scores of web sites.
>
> But nowhere is the license agreement in the least complex.
> https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/search?q=roadgeek
>
> The license says:
> "This font may be freely distributed and used provided copyright
> notifications remain intact."
>
> The copyright says:
> "Copyright (c) Michael D. Adams, 2005. All rights reserved."
>
> So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?
>

Best suggestion would be to create a separate slide placed either at the
beginning or at the end of the presentation just to display that
information. If you are extremely proud of your work, you could add your
own name (or the team if this was a joint project) as 'Presentation Created
by'. After all, it is your intellectual property.

[Chaya Eve]

On Fri, 08 Sep 2017 20:41:30 -0700, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> it is Creative Commons, not Collective Commons

> <https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/Main_Page>

Thanks to you and others, most of the original question is answered!

Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.

Q2: Complying with the legal Creative Commons copyright agreement.

The only question left is the Mac PowerPoint embedding procedure.

>> Are there Mac experts on this ng who know the answer to the first question?
>
> As I said I haven˘t used Power Point on a Mac for over 10 years, and since
> I retired I have had little reason to use Keynote. So in respect of your
> question, I will be of little help.

Actually you were a great help because there were two questions involved,
one of which was the legal attribution.

Here is a picture of a sample of raw sign material:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/sign_blanks.jpg

A school will be doing the printing as a class project where the materials
cost is coming from the residents who are customizing the PowerPoint, so
it's a combined community project, where the legal and Mac/Windows
compatibility issues need to be ironed out.

I can upload the powerpoint if a specific mac expert asks for it but I
don't have a Mac to test out the font embedding on so that is why I am
asking Mac experts the question of how to embed true-type fonts in
PowerPoint on the Mac.

The question is a generic question which anyone who ever embedded fonts on
the Mac in PowerPoint would know the answer to.

[Tim]

OK, as I understand it you are printing individual slides from the
PowerPoint presentation for the purpose of using those printed pages as
templates to create physical portions of the sign. So you are just
transfering the images to a different media.

As such, you are not distributing the actual font to anyone else. I really
don't think anyone is going to try to recreate any part of the original
font file using images from your signs. As long as you display the
information requested by Roadgeek in the presentation, you should be
covered.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 04:07:27 GMT, Tim <onely...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?
>>
> Best suggestion would be to create a separate slide placed either at the
> beginning or at the end of the presentation just to display that
> information. If you are extremely proud of your work, you could add your
> own name (or the team if this was a joint project) as 'Presentation Created
> by'. After all, it is your intellectual property.

Since this is a community project which involves the school, we just need
to faithfully answer the two questions:

Q1: Embedding a specific font into both Mac & Windows PowerPoint 2007.
Q2: Complying with the legal Creative Commons copyright agreement.

Here is a sample of the two types of blanks we may end up using:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

We have the second question completely answered now, which is that we'll do
as you and Savageduck and Mayayana suggested, which is add a final page
stating the Creative Commons copyright attribute suggested by Savageduck.

The only question left is the Mac PowerPoint embedding procedure.

If there are any Mac experts on this ng, they should be able to see if the
font embedding instructions from Microsoft work also for the Mac.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

Microsoft doesn't say anything about compatibility between Windows and Mac
but this site implies that there is no compatibilty with font embedding.
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Mac experts are asked if they can embed TT fonts in PowerPoint, and how?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 04:23:38 GMT, Tim <onely...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OK, as I understand it you are printing individual slides from the
> PowerPoint presentation for the purpose of using those printed pages as
> templates to create physical portions of the sign. So you are just
> transfering the images to a different media.

Actually, it's a group project between the local community and the local
high school graphics lab, where I am only in charge of creating the overall
process that must be legally sound and technically sound.

The biggest problem seems to be compatibility between Mac & Windows, where
it seems Windows can embed fonts but Macs might not have that capability.
http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Everyone will receive the same PowerPoint file, which I can upload to the
net if a specific Mac user requests it for testing purposes.

> As such, you are not distributing the actual font to anyone else. I really
> don't think anyone is going to try to recreate any part of the original
> font file using images from your signs. As long as you display the
> information requested by Roadgeek in the presentation, you should be
> covered.

Everyone will be asked to create their own custom sign from that PPT.
Nobody will be asked to install fonts.

The goal is for the font to be embedded in the powerpoint file.

Here are the two types of sample blanks that we may end up using.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

I think we'll be using that larger punched blank because it looks best:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/sign_blanks.jpg

But those smaller flimsy punched blanks are a lot cheaper.

At the moment, everything is figured out except we need a Mac expert on
this newsgroup who knows something about PowerPoint.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-09 03:00:03 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 21:54:27 -0400, Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam>
> wrote:
>>
>> I would interpret that to mean that you need to
>> include a copy of the license when you distribute the
>> font. I have a number like that, which I've downloaded
>> from font sites.
>
> I interpret that the same, so it's easily enough done to add a page to the
> multi-page PowerPoint presentation stating what Savageduck kindly also
> suggested:
> "Roadgeek 2005 Series B Copyright © Michael D. Adams, 2005."
>
>> I wouldn't worry about crediting inside the PPT.
>
> That's exactly the question!
>
> I can't see any other way to credit the copyright other than the way that
> Savageduck suggested, which is to add a page at the end crediting the
> copyright owner.

<snip>

The type of license smallprint mentiond with this font is usually meant
for those who compile and distribute font collections. They're the ones
who have to acknowledge the original person. The normal end-user
doesn't really have to worry about it, although if you were printing a
book or something to be sold, then it might be at least polite to list
a similar acknowledgement in the book's copyright pages (usually near
the front).

[Your Name]

If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
(the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
for them to install.

Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
character if someone else needs it.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-09 03:38:38 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
>
> The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
> I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.
>
> The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.
>
> Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
> If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

You apparently can't embed fonts in the Mac version of Microsoft
PowerPoint ... at least not in PowerPoint 2016. (I can't find anything
that says the situation has changed in Mac PowerPoint 2017.)

There is an add-on that claims to do it for Mac versions of PowerPoint
2011 and PowerPoint 2016:

Presentation Font Embedder
<http://www.presentationfontembedder.com>

The Mac App Store says it's free, but has "offers in-app purchases",
whatever they may be ... I haven't ever used it.


Mac users could of course use the Windows version of PowerPoint under
virtualisation software or Apple's Boot Camp, but that would require
buying both Windows OS and the Windows version of PowerPoint. (You
could try using Windows PowerPoint under one of the WINE solutions,
such as CrossOver, that do not require the Windows OS, but since they
don't actually have Windows OS they do tend to be buggy and not fully
compatible).

[David Empson]

Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
> I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.
>
> The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.
>
> Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
> If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?

How many times do you need people to say the same thing?

The Mac version of PowerPoint does not have the ability to embed fonts,
nor can it display fonts which were embedded by the Windows version of
PowerPoint.

The only one to blame for this is Microsoft, who chose not to implement
that feature in the Mac version of PowerPoint (it still isn't there in
the latest PowerPoint 2016).

If you want your presentation to be editable by multiple people, and it
requires embedded fonts, then there is no way to involve most Mac users
in that process because they won't have a version of PowerPoint that
supports embedded fonts.

For that matter, given a general audience of Mac users you can't even
assume they will have PowerPoint at all - only some Mac users have gone
to the extra expense of buying Microsoft Office.

If you need cross platform editing of presentations with embedded fonts,
a better solution is to ditch PowerPoint and use something else which
really is cross platform, e.g. LibreOffice appears to support this. I
haven't tried that feature (or used it at all for presentations) but it
would be easy enough for you to try it and see if it is good enough.

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[David Empson]

Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2017-09-09 03:38:38 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> >
> > The problem is a real problem which has been explained fully.
> > I can even upload the file if you want to see the PowerPoint file itself.
> >
> > The only unknown now is how to embed a font in PowerPoint on the Mac.
> >
> > Are there any Mac experts on this ng?
> > If so, can you tell us how to embed that font into PPT on the Mac?
>
> You apparently can't embed fonts in the Mac version of Microsoft
> PowerPoint ... at least not in PowerPoint 2016. (I can't find anything
> that says the situation has changed in Mac PowerPoint 2017.)
>
> There is an add-on that claims to do it for Mac versions of PowerPoint
> 2011 and PowerPoint 2016:
>
> Presentation Font Embedder
> <http://www.presentationfontembedder.com>
>
> The Mac App Store says it's free, but has "offers in-app purchases",
> whatever they may be ... I haven't ever used it.

I had a look at that while researching my previous post.

It won't help in this case, because the presentation needs to be
editable on both platforms.

It has two features:

1. Convert fonts to images, for play-only presentations which will work
on both Mac and Windows PowerPoint. The text is no longer editable. This
won't work with fonts embedded in the presentation - the Mac user must
have the font installed.

2. Embed fonts into a PowerPoint presentation created on a Mac, for
presentations which will subsequently be edited and played on Windows
only. The embedded fonts won't play on the Mac, because the Mac version
of PowerPoint does not support that feature. The Mac user must have the
font installed to embed it in the presentation.

If the presentation needs to be editable on both Mac and Windows, and
must have an embedded font, then PowerPoint is not a practical solution
for a general audience.

> Mac users could of course use the Windows version of PowerPoint under
> virtualisation software or Apple's Boot Camp, but that would require
> buying both Windows OS and the Windows version of PowerPoint. (You
> could try using Windows PowerPoint under one of the WINE solutions,
> such as CrossOver, that do not require the Windows OS, but since they
> don't actually have Windows OS they do tend to be buggy and not fully
> compatible).

That would work but seriously limits the range of Mac users who could
participate in editing the presentation, because most Macs don't have
Windows (and many that do have Windows won't have Office for Windows).

--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz

[Davoud]

Davoud:

> > It's quite a stretch to say that Macs can't handle fonts as well as
> > Windows! Apple (inventor of desktop publishing *and* of TrueType fonts,
> > the basis for Open Type) is not to blame because MS crippled the Mac
> > versions of their office suite. They had to; if MSOffice for the
> > superior Mac OS had all the features of the Windows version that would
> > be the end of Windows in the enterprise.

Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com>:

> I don't have a Mac. Do you have a Mac?

Of course I have Macs. Five of 'em. I've got work to do.

> Did you read this? http://www.pptfaq.com/FAQ00076_Embedding_fonts.htm

Nope. Life's too short.

> Do you agree or disagree with the statement you are responding to?
> "Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts
> that have been embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."

I do not disagree that PP for Mac cannot imbed fonts. I disagree that
it is Apple's fault that Microsoft limits the capabilities of MS Office
for Mac because MS (90+ percent of the OS market) greatly fears Apple
(5+ percent).

> If you still disagree, can you tell us how Mac users can embed that font?

Since I didn't disagree I cannot tell you that. I can, however, tell
you how I might handle the issue in general. It's no different to
handling the licensing issue. I would use common fonts that are likely
to be on a wide range of computers and do not require embedding. And,
of course, I wouldn't be using PP; I would use Apple's highly capable
and elegant Keynote application.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
> not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
> the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
> didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
> character if someone else needs it.

I had not thought of that so thank you for brining up the fact that the
true type fonts that are embedded should be the entire set, including
arrows and shields.

In our case, the project is a 'no trespassing' project, which the kids will
like because they can get creative with their renditions, and where the
residents will be strictly alphabetical.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 19:44:58 +1200, David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz>
wrote:

> The Mac version of PowerPoint does not have the ability to embed fonts,
> nor can it display fonts which were embedded by the Windows version of
> PowerPoint.

Thank you for confirming that font embedding on the Mac won't be possible
on /any/ version of Powerpoint that runs on the Mac.

> The only one to blame for this is Microsoft, who chose not to implement
> that feature in the Mac version of PowerPoint (it still isn't there in
> the latest PowerPoint 2016).

One has to wonder why Microsoft saw fit to allow font embedding on Windows
but not on the Mac?

> If you want your presentation to be editable by multiple people, and it
> requires embedded fonts, then there is no way to involve most Mac users
> in that process because they won't have a version of PowerPoint that
> supports embedded fonts.

This is bad news because the school is mostly Macs from what I've seen in
the graphics lab. They "may" have Windows, but the monitors were all Apple
monitors (I didn't think to look since I didn't know then what I know now
about Mac PowerPoint font embedding issues).

> For that matter, given a general audience of Mac users you can't even
> assume they will have PowerPoint at all - only some Mac users have gone
> to the extra expense of buying Microsoft Office.

This is a school lab, where they mostly use illustrator and photoshop and
design (according to the teacher), but the residents in this joint
community project all have MS Office.

It's not easy trying to create a compatible document between schools on the
Mac and residents mostly on Windows.

> If you need cross platform editing of presentations with embedded fonts,
> a better solution is to ditch PowerPoint and use something else which
> really is cross platform, e.g. LibreOffice appears to support this. I
> haven't tried that feature (or used it at all for presentations) but it
> would be easy enough for you to try it and see if it is good enough.

This is a great idea to try LibreOffice since everyone can install it.
The original proposal I was asked to flesh out was PowerPoint though.

I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
that solution doesn't meet the original specification.

Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.

Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?

[Ken Blake]

The sooner you (and others) stop replying to him, the better it will
be for everyone. He's a troll, and I (and others) have long had him
killfiled here. The best way to deal with a troll is by ignoring him ,
preferably by killfiling. If you don't, and reply to him, the rest of
us who have him killfiled, have to see his messages you quote.

If everyone here killfiled him, and he never saw a reply, he would
soon get tired of posting here and disappear.

[Joe W Dee]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 11:02:29 -0400, Ken Blake wrote
(in article<f408rchoqr5dtg2ql...@4ax.com>):

+1000

--
Joe W Dee
Remember: It is To Laugh
AmE; northeast US, Boston/New York

[Lewis]

In message <oovfhu$1ve8$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
> So how do you maintain a copyright notice intact in PowerPoint 2007?

You put an attribution into the powerpoint file that uses the font, just
like the license says.


--
'The gods,' he said. 'Imprisoned in a thought. And perhaps they were
never more than a dream.' --Sourcery

[Lewis]

In message <080920172311029858%nos...@nospam.invalid> nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <oovlfi$72b$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve
> <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

>> The line of interest on embedding compatibility in that summary is:

>> "Mac versions of PowerPoint can't embed fonts or use fonts that have been
>> embedded by a Windows version of PowerPoint."
>>

>> Are there any Mac knowledgeable people on this newsgroup who can help?

> there are quite a few who can, and while i can't speak for others, this
> 'clueless clod' has zero interest in helping you.

> In article <oovj2c$4e2$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Chaya Eve
> <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
>> This is not a question for clueless clods such as Goodguy, Lewis, & nospam.

Ahh, thanks for that, I'd missed that initially. I'll kill the thread.

(amusingly enough, I just had to deal with this exact issue earlier this
year, my first time dealing with powerpoint in a decade.)

--
K is for KATE who was struck by an axe
L is for Leo who swallowed some tacks

[Lewis]

In message <oovh54$1s2$1...@gioia.aioe.org> Chaya Eve <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 23:41:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
> <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:

>> Microsoft always finds a way to shitify their software. This has nothing
>> to do with the Mac, only with Microsoft's incompetence.

> You two clueless clods have already proven you know nothing about the topic.

More than you.

> As stated prior it's best that you and that nospam clueless clod just leave
> the conversation sooner rather than later because this isn't about your pet
> peeves.

You do not get to dictate what conversations I choose to participate in.
You DO get to be such a shit that I will not answer your questions
though. Even the easy ones.

> The question is about:

Yes, we know, trivial questions that anyone with 4 or 5 seconds to spare
could figure out. Not you though, of course.

We also know who you are.

--
Eyes the shady night has shut/Cannot see the record cut And silence
sounds no worse than cheers/After earth has stopped the ears.

[David B.]

On 09/09/2017 20:46, Lewis wrote:
> We also know who you are.

https://www.mylife.com/graham-morgan/alarmpro82699vd?userMode=0

--
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” (Winston S.
Churchill)

[nospam]

In article <WbYsB.49457$WI1....@fx19.fr7>, David B.

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> > We also know who you are.
>

> https://www.mylife.com/...

no.

[PeterN]

On 9/8/2017 1:38 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
> Can you help with technical and legal background information on how to use
> a True-Type copyrighted font correctly with laypeople and printers?
>
> Two areas of concern where I ask advice based on your experience:
> 1. Technical (how do I embed the TT font in PowerPoint 2007?)
> 2. Legal (what am I supposed to do for copyright stuff?)
>
> Specifically on the technical, I just want to embed the font into PPT 2007:
> A. When I modify a multi-page PowerPoint with custom signs, it looks good.
> B. But when I send that PowerPoint to neighbors the fonts are all jumbled.
> C. I have "RoadGeek 2005 Series B" TT fonts, but I can't expect them to
> load fonts so I just want the font to be embedded inside the the editable
> Powerpoint file (where everyone has Powerpoint on either a Mac or Windows).
> http://texaphoto.com/fonts/roadgeek-2005-series-3-b.html
>
> Specifically on the legal, I just want to be legally correct:
> a. This page tries to explain the legal requirements.
> https://www.onlinewebfonts.com/download/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3
> b. It says something about "css" notifications as shown below.
> [quote]
> Using @import CSS directive, put the following line in add to your css
> file.(http | https)@import
> url(//db.onlinewebfonts.com/c/458cf7aea231a973eb1beacfc13bb8b3?family=Roadgeek+2005+Series+B);
> [/quote]
> c. I have no idea what that means in terms of the editable PowerPoint 2007.
>
> In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
> Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
> Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?
>

Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
than good faith.

--
PeterN

[gray_wolf]

I was on a sci newsgroup years ago. Had some real hard core members.
Top posting would get you killfiled as would replying to the resident trolls.
Some folks just can't leave the trouble maker alone. I've seen a few groups
destroyed by this.

Things pretty well cleared up after a while. At least I think it did. It's hard to
tell when you have killfiled the problem people.
Yahoo groups can be very good. People can get together for whatever their
interests are. Groups can be private and hidden. Really good for family groups
and such. Membership can be by invitation only or they can be open to public
walk-ins.

The list owner is king along with any co-mods he appoints. It's VERY satisfying
to slam the "Ban Forever" button on the jerks and trouble makers.

[ATANARJUAT]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:37:51 -0400, PeterN wrote
in response to PeterN <peter,newd...@deleteverizon.net>

> Pay a good lawyer, who specializes in copyright issues. While in general
> you may sometimes get common sense answers, there is more to legality
> than good faith.

That's the dumbest answer anyone gave here yet.

Here's a similar platitude for you.

If someone asks how to tie their shoelaces, tell them that it can only be
done at the dealer by a professional trained in tying shoelaces.

[Your Name]

Or by many five year olds. ;-)

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
<ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:

> I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
> package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
> that solution doesn't meet the original specification.
>
> Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.
>
> Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
> is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?

I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf" 44KB

The copyright is automatically embedded into the font properties form:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_1.png

Deleting the font after embedding was as easy as right clicking on it:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_2.png

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

The only minor hitch, for Windows experts, is to ask why the 32-bit
Microsoft embedded font utility shell extension didn't seem to do anything
useful on Windows 10:
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/TrueTypeProperty21.mspx

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
> people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
> (the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
> for them to install.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.

For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
they are done with the project.

It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

> Depending on the software (and user choices) Embeded fonts may or mauy
> not include all the characters. Sometimes embedded fonts only include
> the characters that have actually been used. If, for example, you
> didn't use a lowercase z, then the emedded font may not include that z
> character if someone else needs it.

On Windows the embedding is ridiculously easy, where you have the option of
no embedding, embedding of just the characters used, and embedding of all
the characters available in the font itself.

The various file sizes were perfectly reasonable and tiny in all cases:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_3.png

These are the file sizes with and without embedding:
Powerpoint without any font embedding = 91 KB
Powerpoint with only characters used embedded = 610 KB
Powerpoint with all font characters embedded = 1793 KB

After removal, the first file reverted to a jumbled mess:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png

Even after removal, the second and third files above looked great:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

I think we have the final solution and the project plan figured out now,
with all the technical and legal details ironed out perfectly.

Thanks for your advice.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 19:57:23 +1200, David Empson <dem...@actrix.gen.nz>
wrote:

> If the presentation needs to be editable on both Mac and Windows, and
> must have an embedded font, then PowerPoint is not a practical solution
> for a general audience.

Thank you for testing out the Mac.
I have written up the report, which is due on Monday, for the teacher.

The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.

From this: http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_4.png
To this: http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_5.png

For Windows, we will just provide the PowerPoint file which already has the
entire font set embedded in it. This is the easiest for the Windows users
to edit the file to add whatever they want without having to deal with the
added issue of installing and deleting fonts.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_2.png

For the Mac, any solution will be more complex as we have no choice but to
provide the installable font file itself, and then to have every Mac user
learn how to install the font and then for them to additionally learn how
to delete the font on the Mac when they are done with the project.

Thank you for your help in outlining the details which even Microsoft
didn't say in their document on how to embed fonts into Power Point
documents on the Mac so it's something we had to find out on our own.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

[Tony Cooper]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 16:48:46 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
wrote:

The five year-olds are too busy explaining how to take photos on their
phone to older people.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-10 04:51:36 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:02:17 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
> <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think though, that we might just have to enforce loading of the font
>> package onto the Macs to solve the problem the /easiest/ way, even though
>> that solution doesn't meet the original specification.
>>
>> Once the project is done, we would then delete the fonts from the Macs.
>>
>> Is there an easy way to DELETE fonts on the Mac after the fact, like there
>> is with Windows FontFrenzy "de-fonting" software?
>
> I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
> the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
> font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
> font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf"
> 44KB

<snip>

It depends on what version of Mac OS X they are using. The best place
to put fonts is in the "Fonts" folder inside their own user's system
folder (called "Library") ... BUT it will only be available to that one
user account. You can of course repeat the process for each user
account.

One way is to use the application "Font Book" (comes with Mac OS X) to
add / remove fonts.

Another way is to manually copy the font file to the appropriate
folder. It used to be easy on a Mac, but in the newest version of Mac
OS, Apple hides the user's system folder ... supposedly to stop people
playing around and screwing it up.

In newer versions of Mac OS X you can still get to the user's system
folder. It's just a bit less obvious:

1. In the Finder choose "Go to Folder" from the "Go" menu.

2. Type in "~/Library/Fonts" (without the quote marks).

3. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.


Under older versions of Mac OS X:

1. Open up the computer's boot drive.

2. Open the "Users" folder.

3. Open the folder with their user name.

4. Open then the "Library" folder.

5. Open the "Fonts" folder.

6. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.





If they want the font to be installed for every user, then it's best to
put the font file in the "Fonts" folder inside the main Mac OS X system
folder ("Library") ... but they'will need to know an admin password for
the computer to be able do that.

1. Open up the computer's boot drive.

2. Open then the "Library" folder.

3. Open the "Fonts" folder.

4. Put new font files in there - either drag the font file
across or use copy-paste.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 17:18:20 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> If they want the font to be installed for every user, then it's best to
> put the font file in the "Fonts" folder inside the main Mac OS X system
> folder ("Library") ... but they'will need to know an admin password for
> the computer to be able do that.

Wow. This is great information because I'm going to write up a project plan
so that the teacher can have the kids do their own humorous keep-out signs
on much cheaper blanks such as the $2 classic flimsy steel "keep out"
blanks from home depot as shown at the right in this photo.
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/09/signs.jpg

I don't know if the school graphics lab has Windows machines, but it has
Macs so it's important that the kids can get useful work done on the Mac
too, so your information on how to handle fonts on the Mac is useful for
the project plan!

Thanks! I wish I had a Mac to test it out.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-10 04:58:24 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 18:31:41 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>> If you're distributing a PowerPoint document to be edited by other
>> people, then you're best to give them the original font files as well
>> (the original .zip archive, including the licence text if there is one)
>> for them to install.
>
> The final solution will be different for the Mac than for Windows.
>
> For Windows, I'll just provide the file which has the entire font set
> embedded in it. This is the easiest for everyone to edit the file at will.
>
> For the Mac, we have no choice but to provide the font file itself, and
> then to have every Mac user install the font and then delete the font when
> they are done with the project.
> It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

<snip>

Since it's a free font, there's no real need for anyone to delete it.

[Your Name]

Not any more. Some busy-bodies stuck their noses in and now you have to
limit the amount of "screen time" kids have .. which pretty much
destroys the ideas of other busy-bodies who are trying to get "computer
coding" as a necessity in kindergartens and junior schools.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-10 04:58:24 +0000, Chaya Eve said:

I guess it should be pointed out that Microsoft PowerPoint is meant to
be used to create presentations / slideshows. It's not really very good
as a desktop publishing application ... although it is better than
trying to use awful Microsoft Word for desktop publishing!

[Paul]

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typography/TrueTypeProperty21.aspx

Font properties extension 2.30

http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/a/c/3ac0b656-54cf-4d39-8d4c-3506a0679f5e/setup.exe

requirements - Windows XP or later (32-bit only)
use - 'Right click' on a font file (TrueType or OpenType)
and choose properties from the menu.

Example:

https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Microsoft_Typography_Properties_Extension.gif

It looks like the license info is right in the TTF file, but without
the properties extension, may not be (normally) visible in Windows.

Paul

[Andy Burns]

Chaya Eve wrote:

> It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.

What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 06:32:21 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

> http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typography/TrueTypeProperty21.aspx
>
> Font properties extension 2.30
>
> http://download.microsoft.com/download/3/a/c/3ac0b656-54cf-4d39-8d4c-3506a0679f5e/setup.exe
>
> requirements - Windows XP or later (32-bit only)
> use - 'Right click' on a font file (TrueType or OpenType)
> and choose properties from the menu.
>
> Example:
>
> https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Microsoft_Typography_Properties_Extension.gif
>
> It looks like the license info is right in the TTF file, but without
> the properties extension, may not be (normally) visible in Windows.

Hi Paul,

How the heck did you get that extension to work on Windows 10?
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Typography/TrueTypeProperty21.aspx

I had already tested that "Microsoft Font properties extension, version
2.30" shell extension on Windows 10, where it did absolutely nothing, even
after a reboot.

This is your result on Windows 10 on the Roadgeek font:
https://s26.postimg.org/9nskxef21/Microsoft_Typography_Properties_Extension.gif

This is my result on Windows 10 on the Roadgeek font:
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/09/10/roadsign_1.png

How the heck did you get the Microsoft font properties extension to work?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 11:45:33 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:

>> It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.
>
> What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?

That's a good question, where if you have a better answer, I'm all ears.

You're right that it could just as well be Microsoft Word since what's
dictating the software is that there should be zero learning curve and it
should already be on everyone's system, both Mac & Windows.

But what other slide oriented software do you know of that everyone already
has on their computer and that they are comfortable using that is
compatible on Mac & Windows?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:52:27 +0100, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net>
wrote:

>>I'm going to guess that installing, embedding, and then deleting fonts on
>>the Mac is as easy as it is on Windows, which was as easy as copying the
>>font file to the "C:\Windows\Fonts\" directory as the unzipped free
>>font file named: "C:\Windows\Fonts\Roadgeek 2005 Series B Regular.ttf" 44KB
>

> That seems overly complicated. I just double-click the font and answer
> "Yes" to the Q about installing it. I've never deleted a font on my Mac
> so can't comment on the second issue.

If you're talking about the Mac, then that's great that it's just as easy
on the Mac to install a font as it was on Windows.

Deleting the font on Windows is as easy as right click delete.
I presume it's just as easy on the Mac.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-09-10, Tim Streater <timst...@greenbee.net> wrote:
>
> That seems overly complicated. I just double-click the font and answer
> "Yes" to the Q about installing it. I've never deleted a font on my Mac
> so can't comment on the second issue.

Adding and removing fonts on macOS is brain-dead easy.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[Alan Browne]

On 2017-09-08 13:38, Chaya Eve wrote:

> In summary, I ask for your advice on two questions.
> Q1: How do I embed a TT font into PowerPoint 2007 for others to edit, and,
> Q2: What is this "css" legal stuff and I do I comply with it in PPT 2007?

I've spot read this thread with increasing levels of boredom. Not sure
if anyone asked:

Isn't there some included PowerPoint font that is usable and not
encumbered with copyright issues?

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 10:53:02 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> Isn't there some included PowerPoint font that is usable and not
> encumbered with copyright issues?

We want to teach these kids how to do the job right.

It's a good question because there are two kinds of people.
* Those who don't (and almost always can't) do a good job.
* Those who do the job right (which takes intelligence).
It takes attention to detail to do the job right.

It's a good question because there are two kinds of results.
* Results that are only useful for a single use.
* Results that are useful for all similar uses.
It takes intelligent thinking to optimize the results.

WHY does a sign-specific font exist?
* They are tested for readability under horrid lighting situations.
* The spacing & character sizes are optimized for short lines.
* The character selection (e.g., arrows) meets NHTSA standards.

However, as you noted, no sign font is perfect.

If you think choosing a font for signs is easy, then read this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html

In summary, any idiot can easily do a crappy job.
It takes intelligence and attention to detail to do the job right.

We want to teach these kids how to do the job right.

[Alan Browne]

On 2017-09-08 22:18, Chaya Eve wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:38:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
> <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote:
<S>

Troll confirmation.

[Dan Jenkins]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 12:29:22 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan....@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:

> Troll confirmation.

Dude. You're the troll here, you Alan Browne moron!
Plonk!

[Alan Browne]

ROFL!

[Paul]

I tested it on WinXP SP3, because I wanted it to work :-)

For starters, it's 32 bit. Did you test it on Win10 32 bit ?
Not too many people run the 32-bit version. And that still
doesn't *guarantee* it's going to work. I don't think
the Microsoft Typography department gets paid to keep
that working, so it's YMMV as far as that goes.

https://s26.postimg.org/esit5ktyx/works_in_win10_x86.gif

*******

If you run Virustotal on the file, you can get some
similar info in the "Details" tab.

https://www.virustotal.com/#/file/f7eb117f06be6598fd0adbebf2798388c11191dd4ebb2b4553f379a43aeced00/details

CompatibleFontName Roadgeek 2005 Series 3B

License This font may be freely distributed and
used provided copyright notifications
remain intact

But that method doesn't spell out the details in
quite the same way as the Microsoft method.

Paul

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 13:47:02 -0400, Paul <nos...@needed.invalid> wrote:

> I tested it on WinXP SP3, because I wanted it to work :-)
>
> For starters, it's 32 bit. Did you test it on Win10 32 bit ?

I hear you.
I tested on 64-bit Win10.
It didn't work.

I'm glad it worked on 32-bit WinXP though, so we know what it does.
Thanks.

[PeterN]

Good to know you are an expert.

--
PeterN

[ATANARJUAT]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 16:51:12 -0400, PeterN wrote

in response to PeterN <peter,newd...@deleteverizon.net>

> Good to know you are an expert.

A platitude means you told him/her nothing everyone already didn't know.

The guy/gal is using a very common well known free font for God's sake.

It's clear to everyone reasonable but you that all he/she needs to do is
state the copyright when distributing the font with the document.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-10 08:50:00 +0000, Tim Streater said:
> In article <op2pfk$1d43$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

> You don't learn "computer coding" by farting about on a phone.

I never said you did. I said that pushing for less "scrren time" is
contrary to the push for kids to learn coding ... although you can do
some of the planning for coding "offline".

Having said that, apps like Swift Playground are design exactly to
allow kids to learn coding by "farting about on a phone".

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-10 13:34:13 +0000, Chaya Eve said:
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 11:45:33 +0100, Andy Burns <use...@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.
>>
>> What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?
>
> That's a good question, where if you have a better answer, I'm all ears.
>
> You're right that it could just as well be Microsoft Word since what's
> dictating the software is that there should be zero learning curve and it
> should already be on everyone's system, both Mac & Windows.

Microsoft Office isn't guaranteed to be on everybody's computer.
Although it is bundled with many (but not all) Windows PCs, it's
certianly not a defult on Macs.

> But what other slide oriented software do you know of that everyone already
> has on their computer and that they are comfortable using that is
> compatible on Mac & Windows?

There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.

[nospam]

In article <op4bfv$5r8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name

<Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> >>> It's a pain and it's ridiculous but there is no other viable option.
> >>
> >> What's dictating that this should use powerpoint?
> >
> > That's a good question, where if you have a better answer, I'm all ears.
> >
> > You're right that it could just as well be Microsoft Word since what's
> > dictating the software is that there should be zero learning curve and it
> > should already be on everyone's system, both Mac & Windows.
>
> Microsoft Office isn't guaranteed to be on everybody's computer.
> Although it is bundled with many (but not all) Windows PCs, it's
> certianly not a defult on Macs.

all macs can read microsoft office documents by default, and *without*
any additional third party software needed. it's part of mac os.

> > But what other slide oriented software do you know of that everyone already
> > has on their computer and that they are comfortable using that is
> > compatible on Mac & Windows?
>
> There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.

pdf.

[Ken Blake]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 09:40:18 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
wrote:

>Microsoft Office isn't guaranteed to be on everybody's computer.
>Although it is bundled with many (but not all) Windows PCs,

Actually it isn't. It used to be common, but it no longer is.

These days many Windows PCs come with a trial version of Microsoft
Office, but I wouldn't call that "bundling."

[David B.]

On 09/09/2017 21:34, nospam wrote:
> In article <WbYsB.49457$WI1....@fx19.fr7>, David B.
> <Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> We also know who you are.
>>
>> https://www.mylife.com/...
>
> no.

http://al.howardknight.net/msgid.cgi?ID=150508126500

--
“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick
themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened.” (Winston S.
Churchill)

[nospam]

In article <uMitB.85327$yh2....@fx01.fr7>, David B.

<Dav...@nomail.afraid.invalid> wrote:

> >>> We also know who you are.
> >>
> >> https://www.mylife.com/...
> >
> > no.
>

> http://al.howardknight.net/..

no.

[Mayayana]

"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote

| There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.
|

HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded.
There may be a size limit. I'm not sure about that.

MS Office is certainly not guaranteed. Many people have
MS Word, but typically it's only students and people who
work in offices. Fewer have Powerpoint.

I assumed it had to be Powerpoint. Why else would
anyone use such a limited format with such limited
support? But that's typical of people who use MS Office:
They're usually people who think their computer *is*
MS Office, so they assume *everyone* uses MS Office,
so even if they just need to save a phone number in
a text file they fire up MS Word and save it as a 100
KB DOC file. :)

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <op3lf8$t7g$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

I downloaded the font in question. If you want to teach the kids how to
'do the job right' this font is really not a good choice. The quality of
the outlines is horrible. Plus Mac OS already includes a well-designed
font specifically designed for signs (DIN), so why not just use that
instead?

Andre

--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail service.

[Mayayana]

"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote

| > The five year-olds are too busy explaining how to take photos on their
| > phone to older people.
|
| Not any more. Some busy-bodies stuck their noses in and now you have to
| limit the amount of "screen time" kids have .. which pretty much
| destroys the ideas of other busy-bodies who are trying to get "computer
| coding" as a necessity in kindergartens and junior schools.
|

I'd like to think that's true, but there are an awfully
lot of idiots who think the way to make kids intelligent
is to give them anything digital. I recently came across
one of those dawn-breaks-on-Marblehead studies where
some bright bulbs concluded that iPads alone don't
necessarily increase learning! And this week I came
across a very dangerous looking phenomenon:

https://xqsuperschool.org/

Their presentation is unreadable jargon about curing
the old-fashioned design of schools. It seems to be
connected to Bill Gates and his breathtakingly arrogant
drive to not only get MS products into schools but also
to tell educators how to teach. The fact that he knows
nothing about it doesn't deter him. He thinks he's a
genius who understands everything better than anyone
else.

It astonishes me that people might think a 5 year old
should use a computer when they're still learning to use
their senses and to relate to other people. It astonishes
me that anyone could be so simple-minded as to just
assume that more digital is more smart. I'd hate to be
raising kids these days. They're not brilliant with computers.
They're well trained by commercial interests to use
commercial services through digital media. It's no different
from kids a generation ago who never left the TV set.
And parents then thought their kids were geniuses because
they were so adept with the remote control. Now the
kids shop, play idiotic games and follow celebrity Twitter
accounts on digital devices their parents think it's STEM
education.

[Mayayana]

"Andre G. Isaak" <agi...@gm.invalid> wrote

| I downloaded the font in question. If you want to teach the kids how to
| 'do the job right' this font is really not a good choice. The quality of
| the outlines is horrible. Plus Mac OS already includes a well-designed
| font specifically designed for signs (DIN), so why not just use that
| instead?
|

The idea was to provide a legal, ready-made product,
with an official font, that works with both Mac and
Windows. What good is a font that's only on Macs?

[Andre G. Isaak]

In article <op4omo$nao$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Most of the OPs questions have focussed on Macs, so I was answering with
respect to Macs. DIN is available on both platforms, though I don't know
if is included with Windows.

but if there is no appropriate font included with both macOS and Windows
and they need a free font, surely there are better options available
than this one. There are numerous free sans serif fonts available
through Google fonts which are much higher quality than Roadgeek.

[Your Name]

On 2017-09-11 00:58:45 +0000, Mayayana said:
> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote
>>
>> There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.
>
> HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded.
> There may be a size limit. I'm not sure about that.

But you still need an app to be able to edit the HTML ... easily, so
that rules out manually tweaking the underlying code in a text editor.

There are no guaranteed apps that are capable of what is required by
the person who posted the original questions.

> MS Office is certainly not guaranteed. Many people have
> MS Word, but typically it's only students and people who
> work in offices. Fewer have Powerpoint.
>
> I assumed it had to be Powerpoint. Why else would
> anyone use such a limited format with such limited
> support? But that's typical of people who use MS Office:
> They're usually people who think their computer *is*
> MS Office, so they assume *everyone* uses MS Office,
> so even if they just need to save a phone number in
> a text file they fire up MS Word and save it as a 100
> KB DOC file. :)

PowerPoint is often (incorrectly) used as a desktop publishing / page
layout package, despite the fact that it's not actually designed to do
that. The reason is because it seems much easier than using Word to do
the same thing (really only because Word makes so many of it's supposed
page layout features more difficult to find, but that's awful to use as
well).

[Your Name]

Over the last few years schools here in New Zealand have been pushing
parents into buying their kids laptops or tablets to use at school -
not just senior / high school kids, but primary / junior schools kids
as young as 6. If schools think these things are a necessity (which
they definitely are not), then the schools should be supplying them for
the kids to use. Not forcing parents into buying them.

It's just the usual blinkered "we must use technology". The problem is
that few teachers or schools actually know what to do with such devices
as a teaching tool.

Then there's the current silliness of wanting to teach little kids
computer coding. They've already got too many trained people leaving
university not able to find jobs, and complaingin there aren't enough
ditch diggers. :-\

It's just another of the ridiculous stupidities in the eduction system
these days.

In last week's newspaper they were complaining about kids becoming
worse at the basics of reading, writing, mathematics ... it's these
basic skills, taught properly and normally, that schools should be
teaching, and teaching properly. Not playing around about on a laptop /
tablet, not playing silly sports, and not sticking their noses into
what kids have in their lunchboxes.

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-09-11, Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote
>
>> There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.
>
> HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded. There may be a
> size limit. I'm not sure about that.

Assuming a modern browser, yep.

> I assumed it had to be Powerpoint. Why else would anyone use such a
> limited format with such limited support?

For page layout? Neophytes. The troll who asked this question is a clear
example of one.

> But that's typical of people who use MS Office: They're usually people
> who think their computer *is* MS Office, so they assume *everyone*
> uses MS Office, so even if they just need to save a phone number in a
> text file they fire up MS Word and save it as a 100 KB DOC file. :)

Or to send you a photo (which Word automatically degrades the quality of
upon import/export). That's always lovely... : )

[Jolly Roger]

On 2017-09-11, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2017-09-11 00:58:45 +0000, Mayayana said:
>> "Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote
>>>
>>> There's nothing that is guranteed to be on every computer.
>>
>> HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded. There may be a
>> size limit. I'm not sure about that.
>
> But you still need an app to be able to edit the HTML

Any plain text editor will do that just fine.

> ... easily, so that rules out manually tweaking the underlying code in
> a text editor.

Nope.

[Chaya Eve]

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 20:58:45 -0400, Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam>
wrote:

> HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded.
> There may be a size limit. I'm not sure about that.
>
> MS Office is certainly not guaranteed. Many people have
> MS Word, but typically it's only students and people who
> work in offices. Fewer have Powerpoint.
>
> I assumed it had to be Powerpoint. Why else would
> anyone use such a limited format with such limited
> support? But that's typical of people who use MS Office:
> They're usually people who think their computer *is*
> MS Office, so they assume *everyone* uses MS Office,
> so even if they just need to save a phone number in
> a text file they fire up MS Word and save it as a 100
> KB DOC file. :)

Mayayana brings up good points, where Mayayana says PPT isn't always there,
and I can't disagree other than to say that I have personally never seen a
PC that had MS Office that didn't have the main suite (word, ppt, & excel
at the very least).

Do machines exist that don't have MS Office? Sure.
Do machines with MS Office exist that don't have PPT? Probably.

But we have to pick SOMETHING.
If not MS Office PowerPoint, what?

Mayayana says it could be Word that we choose but Word is, IMHO, far harder
to use than PPT for something as simple as a sign, due to the text-box and
anchor bother, page wrap, and margin formatting hell (among other
Word-specific hells).

Powerpoint is designed to be a set of single page slides, which fits a set
of signs perfectly.

If not PowerPoint, then what do you suggest that is already on everyone's
computer and which they know well and which can edit the slides as needed?

I'm all ears if you have a better idea. The draft is due tomorrow.

[Chaya Eve]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:57:09 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

> There are no guaranteed apps that are capable of what is required by
> the person who posted the original questions.

You all bring up good points but you have to PICK SOMETHING so if it's not
MS Office, what is it that is editable that is also WYSIWYG on both Mac and
PC that everyone already has and knows how to use?

If not MS Office, then what?

[Mayayana]

"Your Name" <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote

| > HTML. And fonts can be embedded, base 64 encoded.
| > There may be a size limit. I'm not sure about that.
|
| But you still need an app to be able to edit the HTML ... easily, so
| that rules out manually tweaking the underlying code in a text editor.
|

All that's required is a text editor. HTML and CSS
are plain text. But it does require that the author
know HTML well enough to get the layout they want.
And all the reecipients are guaranteed to be able
to load and read an HTML file. Images can also be
embedded as base 64. HTML is by far the most
adaptable format for graphical pages that need
to display on any system.

If the author is not experienced with HTML there
are plenty of free "wysiwyg" HTML editors. But it
does require some experience to get the page design
to behave.

[nospam]

In article <op4ueg$uu8$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> All that's required is a text editor. HTML and CSS
> are plain text. But it does require that the author
> know HTML well enough to get the layout they want.
> And all the reecipients are guaranteed to be able
> to load and read an HTML file. Images can also be
> embedded as base 64. HTML is by far the most
> adaptable format for graphical pages that need
> to display on any system.

the problem is html does not guarantee a particular layout, making it a
very poor choice.

[Mayayana]

"Chaya Eve" <ashken...@ashkenazieve.com> wrote

| If not PowerPoint, then what do you suggest that is already on everyone's
| computer and which they know well and which can edit the slides as needed?
|

I'm sorry if I've started a wild goose chase. I didn't
catch the part where you needed everyone to be able
to edit it. I thought you were writing and just needed
many people on different systems to be able to view it.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend Word. I was just
saying that more people have Word.

I guess it's really you who knows best. If everyone
really does have, and is adept at, PPT then that does
seem to be your obvious choice. Then I guess you'd
have to tell the Mac people to install the font.

I'm not clear about the needs of the project. If I
needed to print a sign I'd do it as a BMP in Paint
Shop Pro or some similar graphic program. I have
a brother who does signs. He generally uses a vinyl
plotter. But I assume you have a low budget and
you're just going to print out letters on a piece
of printing paper. If that's the case then just about
any graphic editor should do it. Paint.Net and GIMP
are both free... Then again, I might just be introducing
another wild goose chase. Graphic editors have other
limitations. For instance, everyone would then need
to install the font and a layout would probably
be redone more easily than edited. I don't see
why they can't just all download and install the font,
but you're the only one who knows all the requirements
of this project.